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Ex-TEAM Reader Q&A: Out in PA TEAM/LIFE Statement

March 19, 2013

Out in PA is a former TEAM/LIFE member who recently participated in the Ex-TEAM Questions and Answers series.

Joining TEAM

Tell us a little bit about your situation prior to joining TEAM?

I was working in sales and it was December of 2009 and my employer’s company was struggling and was told I may get laid off. I had been self employed for many years before and only in this job 3 years at this point. I had a wife, four kids, and mortgage and was very scared.

How were you approached to join TEAM?

A couple days later I was approached by a long time friend about a business opportunity but he could not tell me anything about it. I had to meet with him and some of his partners at his house. He approached me in person.

What attracted you to TEAM?

I was immediately attracted to TEAM because it was an opportunity to have my own business and be my own boss, at least that was what I was told. I could control my own destiny and reach all my dreams.

At the time you joined, what MLM company was TEAM aligned with? For instance, what products were you trying to sell?

At the time I joined in late December of 2009, the MLM company that Team was aligned with was Monavie. We were trying to sell this healthy juice and were taught you could build a pipeline of residual income so you would never have to work for anyone else again. As soon as I saw the upline/downline was sure it was a pyramid.

How much money was told she could/would make and in what time frame (or implied)?

They showed an IDS statement with all these different levels of what could be made for working very few hours per week, ranging from about $30 per month all the way to millions per month.

Did they entice you with what they were making?

The big leaders at the open meetings and seminars always talked about their big houses, boats, cars, planes, tour buses, dream vacations etc… and I was never comfortable with the focus on material and money. Every now and then they would mention about helping others or getting out of debt but the focus seemed to be more on money and material.

Was their promises of passive, residual, ongoing income promoted?

They always promoted how the passive, residual, ongoing income could even be passed on to your children. made it sound like the money would never run out. Always compared it to McDonald’s and were always promoting Robert Kyosaki and his cash flow quadrant.

Working The Business

On a scale of 1-10, with 10 being the highest, how hard would you say you worked the system?

Did you attend all the weekly meetings?

Did you attend all the monthly seminars?

Did you attend all the quarterly Major Functions?

Did you ever miss any meeting? If so, for what reason?

On the scale of 1-10, we worked the system very hard in the beginning, probably an 8. We attended and participated in everything. Tuesday opens, monthly seminars, men’s and women’s leadership, the major functions quarterly, and even went to meetings when sick. If you ever missed a meeting for any reason, you were told you were not serious about getting free from your J.O.B. which they always called Just Over Broke.

With all this time spent in meetings, when did you go out and prospect people?

What places did you go to do your prospecting?

We were taught to prospect people everywhere… grocery stores, restaurants, pumping gas, where you work, and on and on. It really started to affect me on my real job as I was burned out during the day after chasing people every night, trying to take care of my four kids, aging parents, be a husband, there was just not enough time.

How much time did you spend working your business each week? Include time spent at meetings and prospecting.

We spent about another 30-40 hours per week trying to build a business which was never really ours to begin with.

Were you aware of websites or individuals critical to TEAM?

What was your opinion of the critics?

How did you become aware of websites or individuals critical to TEAM? Did they criticize the critics from stage at every seminar and or just behind the scenes?

We were constantly told by the leaders to stay off negative websites, that those people were losers, and that you could find negative things about anyone including Mother Theresa on the internet.

In the beginning I fell for this and agreed with them that anyone who was nameless could take free shots at people. But as more and more red flags went up, I wanted to hear the other side of the story, because I did not believe that this opportunity could be so perfect.

Did you shun people who didn’t join TEAM?

I did not shun people who did not join team but was taught to move on to the next one and that if they did not get in they were just “95 percenters.”

Were the people you now hung out with just TEAM members?

What did you do outside of your TEAM business? For instance, sporting activities, date nights, volunteer work, etc.

After a while, all we did was hang around with people from team and began to lose contact with family, friends, our kids, and even our spouses as the only thing we were doing was working. Did not go to concerts, sporting events, movies, got rid of TV cable. They preached delayed gratification and with the money you saved, buy more CD’s, tickets to events, invest in your business. What really hit home was when my youngest daughter told us “all you care about is the business”. We were told by upline that building the business was more important than going to our childrens events if we want to get free.

Concerns About The Business

When you joined, did you know that the TEAM leadership made a substantial amount of money from the sale of tools (tapes, CD’s, marketing materials) and function tickets?

When we joined we were told nothing about the money that the big leaders were making from sales of tools, tapes, CD’s, function tickets. It did not make sense to me that they were making enough to retire from just the sale of juice. It was a well-kept secret that we were only told about after about a year in the business. Then we were told you had to be a director to profit share on the tool side.

During your time, did TEAM join another MLM company or start selling other company’s products? If so, how was this change communicated? Did you have any problems or concerns regarding this transition?

One of the red flags that went up for me was that after being in Monavie for a short time they were changing the business to LIFE. then I came to find out they had changed the business name and MLM about seven times starting with Amway, then Quixtar, then Team of Destiny, then Team, then Team Monavie, then Team Life, then Life Training. So every time they changed of course there were new tools and packaging rolled out which many people would then buy the same things all over again. we went through at least three of the big Open Meeting Flip Charts at $150. each. And would find out about the other products they used to say were the greatest in the world on old cd’s that were being passed around.

[Editor’s note: Amway, Quixtar, MonaVie, and LIFE are the MLMs that LIFE Traning has been aligned with. The LIFE Training organization itself has been named Team of Destiny, TEAM, TEAM MonaVie, TEAM LIFE and LIFE Training over the years. Forbes Magazine described the TEAM business as being a pyramid atop a pyramid.]

When did you start having doubts about the effectiveness of TEAM and the business opportunity

I started to have many doubts about this business. We were spending money at a pace of about $1,200. per month including all events and tools. Our credit card debt was increasing at an alarming rate and we were told that there are initial investment costs in starting any business and that it was cheaper than buying a franchise.

I always had trouble with not being able to tell people what the business was about especially when we were preached to about integrity and character. There was an actual calling script to in my opinion deceive people into meeting with you. There was a CD on handling objections.

There is a rule about talking cross line to other people building the business and not being friends with them. My daughter was even told she could not go on a mission trip with the son of another leader because they were cross line. Who ever heard of a business where you could not talk to other business associates about the business? I later figured out that this whole cross line thing was to cover up all the bad things that were happening to people trying to build this business including credit card debt, marriage problems, bankruptcies, house foreclosures, people leaving their churches.

It was more and more cult like all the time. They wanted you to listen to as many CD’s as possible and now I can see the brainwashing effects that they have. My wife would walk around the house all day with her ear buds in and we did not even get to talk to each other. We stopped communicating with each other. All discussion was about building the business.

Do you know your group’s attrition rate? Upline and downline groups.

How many were ‘on system’ (and got off) out of total numbers in group during your time in TEAM?

People were dropping out of the business much faster than you could get them in. And I realized it was all a numbers game. Put them in faster than they get out. it is a pyramid on top of a pyramid with the Life and team sides and is all about recruiting people into the business and not about selling product to customers in my opinion.

What finally pushed you over the edge and made you quit TEAM?

Conservatively, how much money did you spend as part of TEAM?

How much time did you ultimately spend on the business?

If you knew about the public records of some of the TEAM leadership — bankruptcies, strategic defaults, and foreclosures — would this have hasten your departure from TEAM?

What did you do with all of the tools that you purchased?

In three years in this business we have had losses of $10,000, $9,000, and $6,000 respectively. The last year is lower because I got out halfway through the year and my wife refuses to get out.

We had to refinance our home to get out of credit card debt. If I would have learned about the bankruptcies, foreclosures, and debt incurred of some of the leaders at the highest level I would have got out much sooner. But see they hit you at your most vulnerable parts of your being… “don’t be a quitter, don’t be a loser.” I have heard them degrade going to college and the lowest of all, they use religion when it is beneficial to them. Only the top 8 policy council members make the big money and it is a fact that 97% of the people doing this lose money.

I tried to call Pastor Dickie when I found out he was no longer involved with Team and left a voice mail for him. His Associate Pastor called back and told me to talk with my pastor at my church about what the God and the bible teach about greed and the love of money. That was enough evidence for me. Along with a round table texting me and telling me that Orrin Woodward instructs everyone to go to his blog and leave a comment. Now, most people would do that if they were inspired to do so, not told to do so. So much for it being my own business.

Looking Ahead

Given the choice to join TEAM again, would you do it?

What lessons did you learn from your TEAM experience?

What advice would you give to people who have left TEAM?

What advice would you give to current TEAM members?

Any last words?

Given what I have learned, I would never get involved in any Multi Level Marketing Company and especially not Team. I lost money, almost lost friends and family, am fighting for my marriage, found out who my true and real friends are, and fully believe that the Federal Trade Commission will eventually catch up with people at the highest level of Team and close them down. Of course this is all my opinion and based on my experiences with Team.

Definitely OUT IN PA

Out in PA’s story is a little different from the others in that his wife is still involved with the business. Financial losses (thus far) have totaled $25,000 dollars over three years. Hours spent away from family. A wife and son who are still heavily involved with chasing the dream; this doesn’t sound like a business opportunity that many would choose if they knew of these costs.

Readers of this site are encouraged to share their thoughts on how Out in PA can get his family members out of the business.

Finally, if you are a former member of TEAM/LIFE and want to share your experiences, consider filling out the questionnaire. Your story may help other people decide that the LIFE business opportunity is not the right one for them.

166 Comments leave one →
  1. Husbandislost permalink
    March 19, 2013 12:01 pm

    Can anyone tell me what are the “products” everyone refers to? My husband gets a couple CDs & once in awhile a book in the mail for his $58 a month! He’s not making profit but somehow he’s blind thinking he is! His total deposits have been less than $100! That’s over a 3 month time period! He has so far spent $300 & that’s the automatic withdrawals they make monthly. Other than that his “buddy” burns him copies of CDs to listen to. Funny they don’t get the same CDs in the mail but his “buddy” is super gun ho about the “business” & I’m sure hrs spending as much money as possible! I’d like to share a link to our church service from this past Sunday. It will have to wait until later though! I’m waiting for “buddy” or someone else tell him he needs to find a new church. There’s been more than one service about loving & worshiping money but this last one was wonderful! Anyway out in Pa I’m happy to see you came to your senses! Husbands “buddy” is doing everything he can to. Recruit people from VA to NY! Husband doesn’t have same amount of time as this guy as he spends his weekends with us his family in Pennsylvania but works mon-fri in Virginia. Best of luck getting your wife out! I’ll keep you in prayer

  2. March 19, 2013 12:56 pm

    @Husbandislost – The CDs and books are the products of the LIFE business. If he’s also subscribed to the TEAM/LIFE Training system, he’ll also be receiving books and CDs, but those are considered “tools” for building a LIFE business.

  3. Out In Pa permalink
    March 19, 2013 3:50 pm

    @Husbandislost – Thank you for your prayers. His upline will continue to promote the CD’s and all the other tools/books at all the meetings and events. Before you know it you get all caught up in purchasing multiple CD’s and books because they tell you if you are serious about getting “free” you will have a whole trunk load of stuff to loan to people. The problem is, you end up losing what you loan out, and by the time you know it, you are spending hundreds of dollars per month on this stuff. Most of which you can get at the library for free or on Amazon really inexpensive. They heavily promote the tool room and are always very willing to take you there and help you spend your money. We had people signed up for the business as far as Virginia and South Carolina, and were trying to build the business there also. I still can not believe I fell for this and how foolish I was. I was ready to quit my job to do this full time and thank God he opened my eyes to the truth with the help of Amthrax and all the wonderful people on this site! And in my opinion, there is no lower human on this earth, that would use God and the Bible to sucker people into this business!

  4. Melanie Morgan permalink
    March 19, 2013 7:23 pm

    Out In PA~

    Thanks for sharing your story! Sadly, it is the same ole story..with a new name…so typical it is redundant of repeated typical lost time, financial loses, rhetoric, doctrine, and slick con job.

    Your loses are very typical, and 1200 bucks a month will take you backwards and down fast!! In our case and many more those loses including the financial ones are tens of thousands more!

    Glad you got out when you did, it would only have compounded.

    Nothing changes they promise the world but deliver false hope, lies, loss, division, destruction, relational damage, control and despair! The great news is you and many tens of thousands if not hundreds of thousands of others finally seen the obvious, and have quit!

    It is worse than just a bad “business opportunity” it is a very controlling and destructive scam that prey one others deepest desires. I will pray your wife will open her eyes!

    I couldn’t agree more on your lowest of humans on earth, they disgracefully use the bible to control others. Good luck, your story will help others, thanks!

  5. Destroyed by the Spinsters permalink
    March 19, 2013 9:13 pm

    This video is the Team….

    [Editor’s note: Moved the video to a link. The video is for the Justin Bieber song, As Long As You Love Me. While I can see some similarities in how the father treats the boyfriend with how TEAM treats people who aren’t part of the business, it’s a bit of a stretch.]

  6. Walter Rumble permalink
    March 20, 2013 8:07 am

    The word of God says, the love of money is the root of all evil. I’ll ask Out of Pa which isn’t your name, what goals and dreams are you going towards. Life/Team is not a a prymid, a prymid is when people above me always make more money. I can have 6 legs or 10 legs or communities and the person that brings me in might never even have 2 legs. I’m glad your wife has the guts to stick it out and your son is right behind her, thats great!!! Your message to me is very motivating because more so… my wife and 3 sons are in also almost in totally. This Life is about building one another up not taring down, anyone can tare down, and anything that is worth while will take alot of effort. You must have something there,your wife is still DOING IT!! Why don’t you do it. Your a Christian! your to serve not… we all get tired, what are you doing???

  7. Former Round Table permalink
    March 20, 2013 8:31 am

    Walter, you just keep going, my man! You are EXACTLY what Life/Team is looking for–someone who will believe whatever they tell him, whether or not it makes sense.

  8. March 20, 2013 8:42 am

    @Walter – You don’t have to answer the question publicly, but have you done calculations on how much you, your wife, and three sons are spending each month and each year participating in TEAM/LIFE? Are you sharing tools or buying them individually for each person? Is your aggregate group income outstripping expenses each month/year?

  9. Melanie Morgan permalink
    March 20, 2013 9:19 am


    Which part of Out in PA story is motivating you? Amazing! The part where their family is divided now,how about they don’t communicate only about the “business”, the 30-40 hours per week lost along 25,000 loses (with no return), the part he was mislead & or lied to about it being his “own business” and that he would have “passive residiual ongoing income, and on and on!

    Did you even read his story?

    Oh and BTW- Let me know HOW many people in your upline you are making more money than and while you’re at it please let us know how many of your downline has passed you and or are losing money…let’s not be theoretical… just the cold hard facts!

  10. Freedomhaha permalink
    March 20, 2013 10:03 am

    Thanks for sharing! God bless.

    Walter- I will be praying for you to find freedom outside of The LIFE Business, or whatever they call it now.

  11. Melanie Morgan permalink
    March 20, 2013 10:03 am

    Oh and Walter Rumble, I picked up on your dig to Out In PA being anonymous… Before you come on here in pride…you best go read the Policies and Procedures of Team Life about being on here with YOUR name, it could Cost you,.. “your business!” You like 99% of others don’t seem to be aware of that!

  12. Melanie Morgan permalink
    March 20, 2013 10:04 am

    Should say 100%!

  13. Husbandislost permalink
    March 20, 2013 10:57 am

    Thanks! As of right now my husband is only involved in Life not Team. At first he was part of both but said he doesn’t have to be part of team YET! I have no idea when he will have to become part of it. I do know the CDs he’s getting aren’t what his “buddy” is getting. His “buddy” burns copies if his CDs for my husband & who knows who else. Husband for some reason thinks he should be getting bigger packages. He only attends Tuesday meetings when he’s introducing someone new to business which isn’t very often. Last meeting he attended he & I were texting whole meeting (nothing about it!) so I don’t see how he was paying any attention! I know my husband & he can’t concentrate on more than one thing at a time. Hoping he sees light very soon!

  14. Walter Rumble permalink
    March 20, 2013 12:03 pm

    What is it that doesn’t make sense? You where a round table? Why did you quit? That doesn’t make sense!

  15. Melanie Morgan permalink
    March 20, 2013 12:34 pm

    Walter Rumble~

    Spoken like a true “trained” teamer…Distract, Divert, Deny and then play stupid and if that fails, throw in a Bible verse.

    Should I re-write my comments and questions to your BS, or do you need help with understanding what I wrote? Go back & re-read it and let me know if you still need help answering the questions?

    Read the site. If after that you are still interested in getting your question of me answered, about being a Round Table and no longer there, hint…red-flag!… then repeat the process.

    Perhaps you will need to check upline first?

    I am pretty clear why you would ask that question of me, although I have never heard of you in my life, keep reading then let me know what part doesn’t make sense to you?

  16. Melanie Morgan permalink
    March 20, 2013 12:37 pm

    BTW~ It is a great question!

  17. Husbandislost permalink
    March 20, 2013 1:34 pm

    Here is link I mentioned earlier. Hopefully it works, sometimes links from my phone don’t work. If not google Carlisle Evangical Free Church & listen to sermon titled “Can you hear me Now?” Of course you can listen to any if you choose but this particular one is one where I’m thinking ‘Was my husband listening?’ He was there physically but I don’t know how much he took in. He has told me in past he enjoys listening to this pastor preach! I just keep praying one day he will hear God speak

  18. Out In Pa permalink
    March 20, 2013 3:05 pm

    Thank you Melanie, Freedomhaha, Amthrax, Former Round Table, and Husbandislost for your support and I truly respect what you are doing here and consider you truer friends than anyone I ever had upline or downline and I don’t even know you.

    Walter Rumble~

    So you want to quote scripture and discuss being a Christian? Here you go my friend –
    from Galatians 1:10 “Whom am I trying to convince now, human beings or God? Am I trying to please human beings? If I were still doing that I should not be a servant of Christ.”

    Or how about any of the scripture from Deuteronomy or Exodus regarding the worship of false Gods and idols???

    As for using my real name, the so called leaders on Team have a history of lawsuits and after “donating” $25,000. to them already, I really can not afford a court battle right now.

    But I tell you what I will do, I will be glad to meet you and discuss this business with you any time face to face, just give me your real name and address and I will come to you. Let us see what guts you have??? Man to man.

    You ask what my goals and dreams are?? One is to spend all the time I can with my wife, kids, people at my church, real friends, and to honor and worship God and serve him. You see I do not have to finance someones multiple homes, cars, yachts, tour buses, and lavish life styles to do that.

    I have a great boss where I work and am grateful everyday for my job and all that the Lord has blessed me with. You see time with people is what is important to me and not the striving for more and more material gain. “It is hard to be depressed when you live with a grateful heart.”

    I have not heard from one person upline or downline since I stopped working this Team business. You know why that is…because I am not making them any money anymore. If those are the friends you want, go for it brother!

    And by the way, did you get your upline’s permission to come on this site??? Because all of us on here know you can not think for yourself in this business. And did you read the 37 pages of rules and regulations and see that you really don’t own anything???

    Let me make a recommendation to you….go play the powerball lottery or go to your local casino and play the slot machines because you have as much of a chance playing those games and hitting it big as you do in this business. You know why…because the game is rigged and the House always wins the lion’s share of the money, just like the 8 people on policy council.

    I will continue to help other people understand what this business is all about and in time Walter, you will find out the hard way just like I did and I guarantee you my wife and son will also. The house of cards is beginning to crumble…and the person who calls himself “Steadfast” knows it.

  19. March 20, 2013 4:09 pm

    Hey who is steadfast?

  20. Melanie Morgan permalink
    March 20, 2013 6:27 pm

    Steadfast or Steadfast (s)? Enter his website @ your own risk,.. Not sure what his web address is..don’t care,..But Amthrax may know it. Take a guess who it is hahaha.. I think he might have more than 1 twin lol.. could be a couple different Steadfasts on the same blog, but for the most part… who knows.. LOL…..One thing is for sure it is pretty blatant and that is he is dying to know everyone’s IP address..Why you might wonder?…just a hunch… I think he wants to SUE, and gag SUE and gag, SUE and gag, SUE and gag, SUE and gag and then SUE and gag, some more. Cuz that seems to be their track record, history and is just the way they are!Them nice “Christian” guys…

    The message via innuendo’s and threats are pretty clear…truly it is cowardly and a shame imo, where is his “courage”? AND he is anonymous to boot!… the hypocrisy is nauseating. Say they fight for “FREEDOM” OF SPEECH”…and lest not forget the massive smear campaign against Amway that they believed it was their “right” to speak anonymously!!!!!! And then today Orrin and others consider HIMSELF a hero and whistle blower!!! Unbelievably hypercritical…and last but not least the vulgar.. QRUSH..I know it sounds CRAZY but this stuff just cannot be made up!

    They write all these books with this “leadership” principles and what is really interesting is if you have read John Maxwell, Jim Collins and others you could hardly tell the difference in the content between John Maxwell’s, Jim Collins vs Orrin Woodward & Chrs Brady

    Who is copying who…hmmm…..Who really came up with the 5 levels of Leadership? I read that in John Maxwell book. Who coined the phrase and wrote about the 5 levels of Decline? I know I read that In Jim Collins book on How The Might FALL!… It’s really weird though, when I used to read some of their stuff and see what the adherents say about their ‘new’ books…it always fells like “Déjà vu…I would have to check the front cover just to make sure who the author is!

    Now, I could be wrong…but I heard there is a whole chapter about CONFLICT RESOLUTION in Orrin’s 13 Resolutions? I know that was a super- star resolution when we were in, (taught by Pastor Dickie, but everyone else implies or flat out says it is “Orrin’s Conflict Resolution?” Things become blurred don’t they? Confusing? And you wonder why everyone one says things like it’s “Orrin’s”… “PDCA….even Orrin speaks as if he came up with it! Orrin did NOT come up with the PDCA. How about…team approach or “Each-One-Reach-One” (that came from Lennon Ledbetter… everything is plagiarized they just due a little dyslexia number or come up with a ‘new’ flashy name…then call it their own! Casey Comden motto was “I plagiarized everything!!!” Where did they learn this and who influenced Chris & Orrin? Hmm….I heard the Brady’s named their kid after Casey C? Anyone who names their child after someone especially their 1st child…pretty sure you could conclude there is a huge influence there. Maybe it’s just me..but my children’s names meant something very dear to me.

    I do often wonder why they don’t practice what they preach? Then I remember they make multi-millions…and it all makes perfectly greedy sense.I have witnessed first hand an extreme breaching of those preached principles…must just be me!.

    Steadfast site seems is for trying to counter this site and bulling, not sure why he don’t have enough guts to be on there with their real name? I know they label anonymous critics..Nameless, Faceless, Haters, Quitters,…Steadfast website..just something about it…Reminds me a little bit like or a twist of QRUSH blog?

    Must be a part of what ‘gurus do, not sure I never want to be called one though. Seems Steadfast Hates Amthrax and the people on here. Not sure why he HATES Amthrax? Seriously, he just puts up some facts and has a different opinion, does he have the same right as Steadfast or everyone else?

    Nothing changes…the games and double standards are alive and well. Rather than come on here and debate, he would rather hide anonymously and argue with himself. From what I could tell he doesn’t allow anyone to comment on there….Surprise!!!

    [Editor’s note: minor gramatical corrections]

  21. Melanie Morgan permalink
    March 20, 2013 6:28 pm

    Out In PA~

    Anytime. You are Welcome. 🙂 Sorry about all the loss and thanks for having the guts to tell your story!

  22. Melanie Morgan permalink
    March 20, 2013 6:31 pm

    Jim Collin’s ” How The Mighty Fall”

  23. Melanie Morgan permalink
    March 20, 2013 6:43 pm

    Out In PA~

    One thing I despise is someone who is heartless, walks around with a salt shaker looking for an open wound to pour it into as if that makes them look better and then call out “Christian”…I despise it… I have a ZERO tolerance for someone who deliberately and proudly tries to hurt others or minimize someone who is suffering. 🙂

    We will see, but the odds are very high that at least Walter might have a future story similar to yours to tell. I will have compassion for him then, and only then. I don’t wish ill on anyone, but I hope the losses and hurt this has caused in your family and hundreds of thousands of others, doesn’t happen to Walter Rumble’s family.

    Wonder how Walter would feel if that was his story instead of yours?!

    Try imaging that for a while Walter!

  24. Emily permalink
    March 20, 2013 8:19 pm

    Walter Rumble
    Think about this for a minute. There are three couple in Team life that are currently round table who have read the books, ran the roads, and built successful teams. They have spoken at opens, and seminars all over the county. They live the team dream. What do they have to show for it when you look behind the smoke and mirrors? So much incurred debt that they filed bankruptcy. They say in team look at who are following do what they do and you will have what they have. Well if you want the opportunity to be heavily in debt after years and years of running the roads, listening to CDS, going to seminars and majors. Congratulations you are in the right place at the right time. If this is not what you seek I would encourage you to look beyond the smoke and mirrors and see what is really going on with Team Life. If you would like validation to this information click on the link provided. If not I wish you all the luck in building your business as you strive to live the life of your dreams.

  25. Out In Pa permalink
    March 21, 2013 3:58 am


    Great post and you are spot on! I too have read many John Maxwell books and others by john Wooden and Vince Lombardi, Stephen Covey, Jim Collins and on and on….always noticed a pattern of how ideas were “borrowed” and also heard leaders brag from stage how all this great information is out there, they just steal it. So much for integrity, character, honor, and living a principled life. I witnessed this “integrity” first hand from my upline when running for goals and falling a couple people short on showing plans. Was told once by my upline…”just use a couple of mine”…so we could cross stage for the fake recognition that we did not earn. Or the multi case purchases of Monavie put through just to hit pin levels and go across stage…Yeah real integrity there! And how they put their books through the system three and four times to attain best seller status. That is real integrity huh? John Maxwell, Jim Collins, Stephen Covey are the real leadership experts who earned their rankings and best seller status the old fashioned and honest way through hard work and not a bunch of self promoted HYPE! These are my experiences with Team and this is my opinion.

  26. March 21, 2013 4:35 am

    Can you confirm that these charlatans actually announce from stage that this info. is out there and they just steal it? They verbalized as such?

  27. Former Round Table permalink
    March 21, 2013 5:25 am

    Walter, even though I was Round Table for years, I left when I found out Orrin lies about almost everything. He lies about his former CEO–Orrin said he fired him for stealing, when the CEO actually quit in disgust over the fact that Orrin lies all the time. Orrin lies about his former Pastor. He lies about all the “recognition” you see at seminars. (Hint–lots of it is FAKE!!! Ask Jim Martin, Mark Paul, Tim Marks, George Guzzardo, Dan Hawkins, Eric Bloomdahl, the list goes on and on.) He lies about why people quit. (In my case, I think he says I was just a manager and not a real leader; or I refused to change anymore when I hit my ceiling; or I couldn’t stand to see my downline pass me; or I got sick; who knows what else.) He lies about heinous crimes committed by a close friend and big “leader”.

    But you know what Walter? People like you are just perfect for Orrin Woodward and his business. You believe what he says, you don’t question it or dig too deep, and you loudly and ignorantly defend him. The only problem for you, my man, is that people like you NEVER make any money. I was around for years and saw many people just like you. In ten years, you will still be eating the cookies (drinking the kool-aid), sitting in the back of the auditorium, worshipping Orrin and Company as near-gods, you will have gained a few pounds, people outside the “business” will run when they see you coming, and your credit cards will have higher balances on them. But you will swear you are happy because you are “chasing your dream.”

  28. March 21, 2013 10:51 am

    AKA MLM fluff – a sure, rich source of pelf for MLM & M.O. charlatans as they, fluff, remain hanging tightly to “chasing-the-dream” empty sack.

  29. Out In Pa permalink
    March 21, 2013 3:28 pm


    Yes I heard a Policy Council member and multiple leaders at Seminars and Tuesday opens say that they use other people’s materials and steal their quotes…was said in a joking fashion…like “I was not smart enough to think of that my self so I stole it”…they always got plenty of laughs but in the end they were actually telling the truth on this one! That is my opinion and my experience.

  30. Freedomhaha permalink
    March 21, 2013 4:42 pm

    Walter- What percentage of your downline is making a profit? Simple question. God Bless.

  31. Husbandislost permalink
    March 21, 2013 5:03 pm

    Can anyone tell me are certain goals having to be met in first 6 months

  32. Melanie Morgan permalink
    March 21, 2013 9:41 pm


    I love it that you are asking questions, I just wish I could be of more help on that one. I believe you have 6 months to get either I believe it was 1 customer (hahaha what a complete joke).

    But also there all kinds of “goals”, by best guess would be it has something to do with their “trip-tracking” (ten’s of thousands of money from downline) to achieve.

    You might be hearing about a “team specific goal” where they might be running a “promotion” to create more self-consumption.

  33. Melanie Morgan permalink
    March 21, 2013 9:47 pm

    Or another one might be a “goal” to buy as many books to get the new books on the best sellers list! Or could be a “goal” to “vote” for something to artificially boost their reputation. Could involve “ranking goals.”

    None of them mentioned would be out of their common “goals” on their agenda.

    Could be to get be the “million people goal”….hahahahaha…

  34. Husbandislost permalink
    March 22, 2013 3:06 am

    Something is definitely up around here. Last night husband received a text from the guy he had come to our house to show me the plan. At the very beginning when I found out my husband signed up I got this guys number & was sure to “thank” him. He said to me “I’m not the one who pushed your husband to sign up, it was _(name)_____.” Then few weeks into it husband & ___(name)_& (name’s wife) decided they don’t like this other guy & they want to “get rid” of him. “He’s snake oil”. I don’t know how much he hears from guy who did initial recruit but rest of day he (husband)was in a mood. I only very briefly saw he had a text from him so I have no idea what it said. He also received a new package in mail yesterday which is unusual, he usually only gets 1 a month & this makes 2! Second reason husband is ticked is because 2 packages haven’t arrived… Ok they have he just doesn’t know it. The last package the marriage counselor (that I’m attending alone) has it to see what the mess is about. Husband waited 2 months to ask for packages so I don’t feel he wanted them too badly. So far to my knowledge he has spent (deducted from bank) $300! He’s had 3 deposits… The initial $8 to make it look like you are already making money & you haven’t done any work yet, $5 & the most recent $63. Hmmm… Is it just me or do you not see a profit. I know what he’ll say.. “I’m starting to see a turn around. I’m going to make more”. Oh boy I’ve heard this before. Last month he was expecting $500 & he got $5, then he says “oh I have to become something (can’t remember what) to make that, I didn’t realize it. Next month I’ll make $200” well that was for march & his deposit was $63. Usually they only withdrawal once a month on first but this month they withdrew on 1st & 15th. Husband says its because he told them to start making withdrawals on 15th instead of 1st. I don’t get why they wouldn’t wait until following month?! I think they messed up so they gave him $63 so it would look like he was starting to see a return. (Just my guess)

  35. Chris permalink
    March 22, 2013 11:39 am

    Walter Rumble – March 20 – Your to serve? What’s the church used for? Everyone is different and to serve in different ways, not everyone is suited for team – life. I hope God leads you in the right direction, but life team is not the answer for everybody. I wish u well in your endeavors, but you’ve gone to far saying that if you quit your less a person. My opinion you need to get off your team high, and do a reality check. Course Team teaches to think positive thoughts, so maybe that’s the problem.

  36. Out In Pa permalink
    March 24, 2013 3:36 am


    The possible Life Subcriptions consist of Life – $50/month 4 CD’s and a book, LLR – $50/month 4 CD’s and a book, AGO -All Grace Outreach $25/month – 2 CD’s and book, Edge – $10/month for kids 1 CD, Open meetings – $40/month per person, Seminars – $40/month per person, Major Convention – $135/ticket. That is just one side – on the Team side “training system” three or four levels starting at Basic – $24 every two weeks for 2 Cd’s, each one increasing in cost for more CD’s. The “training system” is where they supposedly teach you how to have your own business. All of this is basically a pyramid on top of a pyramid, all based on recruiting people in and keeping them in, replacing them faster than they drop out, because on these tools is where the top of the pyramid make all the money. This is my experience with Team/Life and my opinion.

  37. Out In Pa permalink
    March 24, 2013 3:45 am

    A very sad story~

    My former upline…I call them that because I am out of the business…just filed for personal bankruptcy recently, I learned yesterday. These are good people that I know got caught up in the hype of this whole “business opportunity”. They have been involved with this “business” some twenty years from Amway, Quixtar, Team of Destiny, Team, Team Monavie, Team Life, and now the current name change, Life Training. They have been successful in other businesses and there is no doubt in my mind that their money issues are related to being drained financially from this “business opportunity” where you spend more and your expenses are more than you could ever hope to make on the income side.
    This is my opinion and my experience with Team/Life.

  38. Melanie Morgan permalink
    March 24, 2013 11:00 am

    Out In PA~

    Do they not charge $5 or 6 bucks per cd across the board?!

    $10 for 1 Cd for Edge, $24 for 2 CD’s on the Team side? $ 10 & 12 dollars per cd…Holy crap..that is a rip-off, you have to be freaking kidding?!!! I know they will use the same worn out old argument that you pay that for a music CD, which is flat out bogus argument.

    They are always trying to “compare” to justify their scam. There is no comparison between music and their indoctrinating material! Not apples to apples!!

    They don’t spend $$$$ on a studio and pay someone to mix, & record, pay an agent and on and on. They CHARGE people to go to A seminar & record that seminar then RE-sale that same information on a CD…AND now for !0 -12 bucks a CD? Un-freaking believable!!! How do they “justify” their regurgitated book reports went up in value double what they charged before?!!

    Seriously the greed is astounding!.

    Do you have something that lists out these costs and if so could you possibly send me a copy. You could get my email from Amthrax or contact me on my personal FB page.

  39. Out In Pa permalink
    March 24, 2013 11:35 am


    Not on FB but have asked Amthrax for your email and yes will send you any information I can get. When we first started in Team/Monavie the CD”s were $5 each then increased to $6 and yes now the Life CD’s are $10 each. Got to pay for all those homes, boats, vehicles, tour buses, and lavish lifestyle somehow!

  40. Melanie Morgan permalink
    March 24, 2013 11:58 am

    Thank You.

    “The things that will destroy America are prosperity-at-any-price, peace-at-any-price, safety-first instead of duty-first, the love of soft living and the get-rich-quick theory of life.”
    –Theodore Roosevelt

    “Earth provides enough to satisfy every man’s needs, but not every man’s greed.”
    ― Mahatma Gandhi

  41. Just Came To permalink
    March 24, 2013 6:34 pm


    I have been part of Team for three years. Every so often I search online for the latest scoop on what people are saying about the business so I stay on top of people’s objections. Three days ago I learned that Orrin lost both his Leadership Guru status and IAB business award. I did my own homework to verify the truth to myself.

    I have done hours of research and reading for the past three days. I saw the bankruptcy papers for couples like the Hubers who had claimed to be debt-free. I saw that the Guzzardos actually financed a house even though the Team teaches to own everything cash. For the first time, I saw the cold, hard facts. I could not dismiss them as simple Internet gossip, mere “rumor, hearsay, and popular opinion.” Even Steadfast, in an attempt to defend Orrin and Chris from the Leadership Guru scandal, made a huge mistake in his article on the subject. However, anyone can go to the Global Guru site directly or by Google and read right from the source what really happened.

    For three years I thought that Orrin and Team truly wanted to make a positive difference in society. For that reason I have been listening to at least 4 CDs and day for two years. My honey and I did not build the business as strongly as many other leaders, so I don’t feel as lied to as others I have read about. However, my trust in the organization has been massively shaken. How do I reconcile the bits of truth from the business with my own worldview? I have a lot of separating of fact from fiction to do.

    I really want my story to be heard. I would love to fill out the questionnaire. Now I must figure out if LIFE will try to sue me if I attach my full, real name to this. Fortunately, I don’t have much of a business to lose. Even if I did, I’m thinking that terminating my contract with them would be a good idea. Any thoughts?

  42. MemoryLame permalink
    March 24, 2013 9:08 pm

    Just Came To: Just Do It 🙂

    You are in good company now. You will simply be amazed at how quick people will answer your questions here rather than skirt your questions or answer with a question. It’s like I used to hear Tim Marks say all the time, “Truth is so sweet to the ears.” In this case that’s true.

    Welcome out!

  43. Melanie Morgan permalink
    March 24, 2013 9:15 pm

    Just Came To~

    I really want your story to be heard too! I wouldn’t fear telling the truth about your story. There is no grounds, and what a shame people have to fearing the truth, we do have freedom of speech! I believe the ones they choose to sue are the ones who have a lot of information and influence with big teams, that have information they do NOT want out. They will just take your team, some passive income, right? But then one couldn’t 100% be certain.The truth is the absolute defense in defamation.

    But you will have to decide whether that is a risk for you.The last time I checked we still live in a free country, does make you wonder sometimes when people with money could outspend you, and ironically they fought the same fight and claimed their defense was a constitutional right.

    So, as far as I know, the constitutional right is not exclusive to the TEAM, although I know it seems it is. I know it doesn’t seem that way because they DO sue people and are currently suing Mark & Raquel Peters that are former RT members. Who sponsored Dan & Lisa Hawkins and lives in Wisconsin where their group has the biggest concentration of people that they want to protect to the tune of bringing this lawsuit.

    Just Came To is a very appropriate name for your stage and an extremely difficult spot to be in, especially after listening to 4 cd’s a day for 3 years!! I have tremendous empathy for what you are going through and will continue to, figuring out for your self as you are. It is will get way better over time and there is nothing better than to have freedom of mind.

    The truth will set you free! But not without going through a lot of mixed emotions and a major fog first. Be patient with yourself, we will be here for your support.

    Your comments on Steadfast, I couldn’t agree more. Maybe you could share some more of what you are finding and what was the biggest eye opener that made you “come to?”

    I am so looking forward to your comments to share with all the readers on the LiFE side of things, because I doubt anything is different! So please share all you can. 🙂

  44. March 24, 2013 9:21 pm

    @Just Came To – Thank you for your comment. What you’re experiencing right now is cognitive dissonance. It can be difficult to reconcile what you believed to be true and the facts that you’ve now seen for yourself. Fortunately, others on the site have gone through what you’re going through, and they will help you sort through your feelings.

    Feel free to send me your responses to the questionnaire. You don’t have to attach your real name to the Q&A if you don’t want to.

    P.S.: A small clarification on the IAB Business Award. Orrin didn’t lose the IAB award so much as the IAB was shut down by the FTC as a medical insurance scam.

  45. Melanie Morgan permalink
    March 24, 2013 9:23 pm

    When you did your research to keep up with the “handling the objections” did you block out what you were reading or what did you think when you were reading. Also, what is their star “handling objections” they have for the “critics” now? Is the #1 we are getting “paid” to speak negative? LOL

  46. Freedomhaha permalink
    March 25, 2013 4:24 am

    Just Come To- Welcome!! This real community will be here for you as you begin the process of getting your own mind back. We have been there and while it is not easy freedom is sweet!!

  47. Former Round Table permalink
    March 25, 2013 5:10 am

    Just Come To,

    Welcome and you are in the right place. I encourage you to read up on cults, as that will help you put things in perspective!

  48. Out In Pa permalink
    March 25, 2013 6:01 am

    Just Come To~

    I totally relate to what you are going through and it took me about 9 months to comment on here after I got out. Welcome and please share your experiences. I totally bought into what they were “selling” because on the surface it is very positive and intoxicating at times. Saying the Pledge of Allegiance before meetings, playing the national anthem, saying a prayer, the constant edification, it all seems right. But over the three years I was in… I began to see things that just did not make sense…and began to question…but you see they never answer your questions…they tell you to listen to more Cd’s and that you are not following the system. They try to make you feel like it is something you are doing wrong. Believe me it is not!! I can not emphasize that enough! The system is rigged and more than 97% never make any money. That is a fact! The people on here are not paid to comment and do not have anything to hide. Follow your gut and your instincts and continue to do your due diligence. I am soooo happy to be free!

  49. Freedomhaha permalink
    March 25, 2013 6:26 am

    This is a real community. I was extremely jaded when I left TEAM because I had just been unknowingly scammed so badly by people that just before had said so many amazing things about me. However, being able to come on here has allowed me to realize that good people still do exist in this world. The Peter’s lawsuit has been a huge inspiration to me personally.

    If you are in TEAM reading this please, please take an honest look at the business. Can you live knowing that you could sign up 100 people and they will all lose money?

    I am praying for all of those that are still involved in this evil scam. God bless!!

  50. Husbandislost permalink
    March 25, 2013 7:13 am

    Since getting out has anyone had any issues in getting a real job? I’m very concerned as my husband is so close to retiring from the military that it concerns me this will follow him into the civilian world. So far he’s only getting the 3cds & one book in the mail. April may be a different story since they withdrew twice in March & sent two packages. Also just a side note the reason I posted link to our church service is because he bluntly said don’t let the promise of riches deceive you. I’m just waiting for my husband to say he can’t attend this church anymore!

  51. Just Came To permalink
    March 25, 2013 4:29 pm

    Hi everyone,

    Wow, thank you all for the warm welcome. And you aren’t even being paid residually to talk to me! LOL.

    A word of warning: this is going to get pretty long and it’s not even my questionnaire. (BTW, I will be filling one of those out in the next few days.) Surely you all had to deal with your cognitive dissonance after leaving Team, too. I wonder how long it’s going to take to sort through three years of deliberate programming?

    Speaking of cognitive dissonance, Amthrax, I laughed when you used that term because I actually learned that term from Chris Brady! He discussed for ten minutes on a CD this story about how he was caught in his own cognitive dissonance that everyone in Team noticed. What had happened was he contradicted himself on an earlier CD in a rather obvious way, so he wanted to clear up the problem publicly to help upkeep his reputation. Understandable, but that was a teeny tiny bit of dissonance in his life. It doesn’t even compare to the massive ones that he doesn’t really address on from stage.

    It’s hilarious how Orrin & Chris are so bent on making the business about being able to trust your upline because of their transparency. I now realize the CDs are designed to make one feel as if they know Orrin & Chris personally because of the personal stories they share; however, how can one tell if the talks written for stage and/or CD aren’t partially or completely made up? How foolish it was for me to think that because I could see the actions and living situation of my immediate upline, that meant that I could also trust the actions of two self-proclaimed leadership gurus that I never met. Even if I had met them, doesn’t it takes hours, months, and years to establish the large amounts of trust that Team leaders want members to have for them? If I had qualified for every “meet Orrin” incentive it still wouldn’t have been enough time to trust him with my major life decisions regarding finances, career, business, family, etc.

    @Melanie: To answer your question about what I’ve noticed so far with Steadfast, I would like to quote his article from his website:

    (Steadfast quoted the Leadership Guru Criteria page first, then he gave his response):

    ” ‘And, when we added an IP address checker to our system this year, two Guru candidates listed in the top 15, Orrin Woodward and Chris Brady, who have had substantial votes since 2010, were disqualified and removed from the list because during the months of August to October more than 98% of their votes came for only three IP addresses, meaning that only three people voted for them over and over again. Each had more than 900 votes from these IPs during the specified time.’

    “Simple multiplication of 3 times “more than 900 votes” would result in more than 2,700 such alleged duplicate votes during “August to October”. I find it curious that the Guru’s previous statement (see above) said, the three IP addresses “… accounted for almost 2000 of their votes.” That is greater than a 700 vote (over 35%) disparity in their two statements in which they are trying to justify the disqualification! This wide disparity, along with the Guru site’s unfair disqualification of Woodward and Brady rather than taking the responsibility for the poorly structured polling method in a timely manner and permitting controlled voting to include Woodward and Brady, makes one wonder if there isn’t a hidden agenda behind the current owners of the Guru site! At the very least, such disparity in the numbers brings into question their accuracy in reporting. I repeat, Guru had a faulty method for gathering votes which did not justify disqualifying anyone, evidently without proof conclusively linking the candidate(s) with their own ballot box stuffing.”

    Tell me, do you guys notice the major flaw with Steadfast’s argument? When I first read this I asked myself why he was multiplying 900 by 3? Shouldn’t it be by 2; Orrin and Chris? The word “Each” is clearly referring to Orrin and Chris, not the number of IP addresses. So, either Steadfast got confused or he did that deliberately in order to build the whole rest of his argument. Hmmmm…..

    Also Melanie, to answer your other two questions, when I used to read from Team’s critics before, all I ever seemed to find were extremely one-sided rants on various forums and sites that all seemed to lack credibility. Plus, being under the influence of Team CDs didn’t help. Lol! About their current teachings of how to defend oneself against critics, I cannot speak for the past year. Most Team system CDs I’ve been listening to have been from 2010-2011. In those CDs, critics were mentioned A LOT and we were warned that “criticism is the death gargle of a non-achiever.” Every time a speaker told a story about someone successful, that speaker would make certain to point out the fact that the successful person had critics who tried to stop them. One story that particularly sticks out is Chris Brady’s story about Cicero during the fall of the Roman Empire. Chris even compared the Florentine system of organized gossip (bucci de la veritae) with modern day organized gossip on the Internet. Those PC made sure to cover their bases when it came to prepping members for anonymous anti-Team rhetoric on the Internet! They done did brainwash me REAL good!

    [Editor’s note: added blockquotes around quoted sections.]

  52. Freedomhaha permalink
    March 25, 2013 4:46 pm

    “criticism is the death gargle of a non-achiever.”

    Always loved that line. In case you were curious a list of famous critics in history include: Winston Churchill, Gandhi, Martin Luther King, Rosa Parks, Jesus of Nazareth and Abraham Lincoln.

    Other less famous (thankfully) critics include:
    Orrin Woodward and Chris Brady. Things they are critical of include jobs (just over broke), US Government, non-Christian religions, critics (pause to allow the irony to sink in), women working, public school system, and Amway.

  53. MemoryLame permalink
    March 25, 2013 7:33 pm


    The group is not going to make your husband less qualified for a job or make the job less attainable. It might give him the illusion that he won’t need a job now that he’s found this. I know good people in this group that won’t (not can’t) seem to stay anywhere very long.

    I pray that won’t be the case for your husband though. 😦

  54. Melanie Morgan permalink
    March 25, 2013 8:41 pm

    Just Came To~

    I appreciate you responding to those questions and am sincerely looking forward to your comments and story. I see you have realized some very important discrepancies and have made some excellent points. Thank You.

  55. Melanie Morgan permalink
    March 25, 2013 8:42 pm


    Amen to all that!

  56. Melanie Morgan permalink
    March 25, 2013 10:04 pm

    “Withholding information is the essence of tyranny. Control of the flow of information is the tool of the dictatorship.”
    -Bruce Coville

    “Rebellion to tyranny is obedience to God.”
    ― Thomas Jefferson

  57. Melanie Morgan permalink
    March 25, 2013 10:28 pm

    “It is a paradox that every dictator has climbed to power on the ladder of free speech. Immediately on attaining power each dictator has suppressed all free speech except his own.”

    ~ Herbert Hoover

  58. Husbandislost permalink
    March 26, 2013 6:32 am

    Thank you for the info! It’s very confusing situation for me with my husband. A friend of his that is military intelligence has told me it can affect his top secret security clearance but I’m not real sure how that works! The thing with my husband is he in another state mon – fri. This may sound strange to most but it just worked out this way for different reasons with the military. He’s here with us every weekend. He only tries to “recruit” people in the state he’s living in mon – fri never on weekends. Sometimes I feel it’s to impress his “buddy” that he works with that recruited him! Just this past weekend he mentioned to a friend of ours that he’s not sure he’ll be able to retire from the military when he’s supposed to because of the economy & finding a job outside the military. Now this is a common fear of retirement from the military but if this is so promising that he’s going to be able to live financially free then what would it matter. I don’t feel he’s as into it as his “buddy” At first he attended every tues meeting, & recruited every Wed! In the beginning he said it was going so well. Now it’s an elephant in the room that everyone ignores. He seems to attend meetings only when he’s trying to recruit people! He’s noticed that no one really cares about the CDs except for himself & less than a handful of others. He only attends meetings when his “buddy” is holding them. He has told me in the past when he first started he will continue to work outside the military. I don’t see how that would be possible because the military job he currently has is very laid back. He can leave at whatever time he feels he’s done for the day. This is nothing like military jobs he’s had over last 18yrs. There have been many nights he’s worked until 7, 8:00 at night. When he’s in the world of a civilian job it’s not going to be this way. He won’t be able to cut out when he pleases etc.. I think it’s going to make it much harder for him to do things that are required with this “business” Makes me wonder if he is just doing it because he has problems saying no to people or if he really wants this. It’s so hard to figure out!

  59. MemoryLame permalink
    March 26, 2013 7:02 am


    Take heart! Your husband is on his way out of this, I believe.

    If he’s skipping ANY meetings, his upline is showing disapproval, I guarantee it. Even really good-hearted upline can’t hide it, because in the end you aren’t just making new friends here like they pretend. Every person in your downline is either making or losing you money and a downline that isn’t “all in” is not going to last (I.e. costing you money to spend time with). You know it as an upline and you know it as a downline. Even if you don’t want to think that way, “the system” makes it inevitable.

    Eventually, normal pride and dignity in the job you’re doing make you wonder why your putting up with this guilt.

    It sounds like your husband is just about to go through a major life change via military retirement. I’m no psychologist but I’m guessing a little underlying fear of the future for him and maybe the buddies that got him into this, left them open to it at first.

    I would wager that every one of us ad something going on that made us vulnerable at the time we got in. These “leaders” are simply fantastic at exploiting those.

  60. Chris permalink
    March 26, 2013 9:37 am in my opinion is all about recruiting new people. Every meeting in my opinion its intention is to get a hold of the new person. The problem with that is it gets old for the person who’s been in team life for a while. So your mostly forced between a decision build the business or quit. I chose to quit. Lots of peer pressure in this group, once you hit power player, I’ve noticed in my upline. It seems they were always going to another meeting . The intention of team makes you look at everyone as a perspective prospect of team, I didn’t feel right when I viewed people that way. Remember God doesn’t look at outside appearances, he looks at.the intentions of the heart. It’s not my place to judge, but I felt that the intentions of team were not right in my mind. I felt I had to manipulate people to join in by hyping up the leaders and books. With credibility of leaders in question. It took me a long time to realize this truth about team….the hype…it’s all for show!

  61. Husbandislost permalink
    March 26, 2013 1:55 pm

    I could only hope but I am not going to get my hopes up yet. He’s going to a meeting tonight. 😦 It’s been probably 2 weeks since he last went.

  62. ageofwisdom51 permalink
    March 27, 2013 3:02 am

    @HusbandisLost (from very recent and gleefully now former “GrownChildWasLost” anti-Team/Life [read that to mean possessing common sense] parents):

    be prepared…if he falls for this (and decides he wants to do more than just self-improve, i.e., to solicit others to get into it with ideas of getting wealthy in perpetuity from it) and finds out you’ve been on Amthrax, you’ll be in for a tongue-lashing about how stupid it is to go on the internet and read the supposed lies from the naysayers who are just J.O.B.-slave losers (what a hoot), and that it’s all perpetrated by just a few who couldn’t “make it” in this upstanding business (gag me), etc. He may not “preach” to you at first, but it will come out in conversation–you WILL notice changes in demeanor and communication.

    From there, you’ll get the lectures about having “vision to succeed,” or that this group has all of the answers (on the 8 F’s of living such as Family, Finances, Fellowship, etc), and that one only needs commitment, and to follow their plan to succeed, yada yada yada. He will blow $269 of your money taking a bogus “Mental Fitness Challenge” test that’s geared toward giving them the answers they want so that it looks like you need help (this is a very generic test that does not account for age/stage of life, etc.)

    You are one of the few on Amthrax right now that is now walking in our shoes. This current iteration of the biz is only 1.5 yrs old–launched in November of 2011. By June/July of 2012, our entire family had become victims of just one person getting into it. Truly feel sorry for you.

  63. Husbandislost permalink
    March 27, 2013 4:11 am

    Thank you! I have already heard the spiel about how you can find anything negative on the Internet! In the very beginning (3 months ago) I was given a print out about this website but I just disregarded it. I think he went to the tues night meeting last night because he felt he had to! I think his text last week from the other guy was pressure about not being at all meetings! (Funny thing is he’s distracted during meetings with texting me) The next few months are going to get very interesting! I will continue to wait out the storm until his eyes are opened to reality! I’m currently in search for a job myself & he’s been supportive of it. I’ve been a stay at home mom for many years & I’m hoping to find a job sooner than later. Along with other things going on in our lives that I won’t post on here just yet as I don’t want certain people to see! In time I will fill you all in more!

  64. MiniatureGiantSpaceHampster permalink
    March 27, 2013 4:46 am

    Quitting cold turkey.

    I was only in six weeks. Quitting after that short time was still a little rough on the mind. Everything they say sounds so good you don’t want to let it go. I don’t want to imagine what it would be like on the mind to let go after five plus years of listening to CDs and attending meetings.

  65. ageofwisdom51 permalink
    March 27, 2013 4:51 am

    @MGSHamptser: were you in it recently? I keep trying to find someone who was in it since the 4th iteration, i.e., when it became LIFE/Team…you ain’t a kiddin’ me, either, about how fast it happens….we saw it happen rapidly from day-to-day in the very first weeks of it. If you were in it since Nov. of 2011 when LIFE got launched, can you give specifics as to what was “rough on the mind”…because even though our grown child is now out of it, we are still struggling to pinpoint exactly how he could have been sucked into the vortex so very fast, so very vehemently.

  66. March 27, 2013 7:57 am


    @MGSHampster’s story can be read here. He was in very recently.

  67. MiniatureGiantSpaceHampster permalink
    March 27, 2013 8:31 am

    During my brief time in LIFE I remembered a few episodes of an anime I watched called Welcome to the N.H.K. The series is a dark comedy which follows a 22 year old hikikomori (a person with acute social withdrawal) as he gradually learns to overcome his problem. At some point he gets involved briefly with a pyramid scheme. While it didn’t delve deep in to the topic, I feel it did a good portrayal of how recruiters can steer a prospect in to the direction they want. This is all with the prospect being completely oblivious to being hooked.

    Overall I believe Welcome to the N.H.K does a good job showcasing many social issues people tend to turn a blind eye too. This likely a result of the series author himself being a recovering hikikomori.

  68. MiniatureGiantSpaceHampster permalink
    March 27, 2013 8:43 am


    Hmm, a previous comment I made just as Amthrax posted didn’t seem to appear. I’ll try to paraphrase then.

    It is a a matter of circumstance. Many factors such as who introduces you and your current state of mind determine how well you keep up your guard at the moment of introduction. Generally a person is “looking” for something. LIFE/Life Training (formerly TEAM) at first glance seems to have what a person wants. Recruiters are trained to look for prospects who are “looking”. They say so right on the LIFE website, if a person isn’t looking they are not for LIFE.

  69. March 27, 2013 8:55 am

    @MGSHampster – for some reason, that previous comment of yours went into spam moderation. Since you wrote pretty much the same thing, I’ll leave your last comment up instead.

    Good find on the Welcome to the N.H.K episode (#17 called Welcome to Happiness, for those interested in viewing it). Do a search on YouTube to find selected clips from the episode.

  70. MiniatureGiantSpaceHampster permalink
    March 27, 2013 9:52 am

    The full episodes can be found officially and legally on the North American dristributers official website.

  71. Husbandislost permalink
    April 2, 2013 2:30 pm

    Ok so husband went to tues night meeting last week while “buddy” was out of town. This week “buddy” is back & husband is skipping meeting. I’m glad he’s missing but not sure what the effects will be on him for missing!

  72. Melanie Morgan permalink
    April 2, 2013 6:17 pm


    Your husband will get a whole bunch of attention from his buddy as long as his buddy has no one else , as “needed” and he is spending his money, but after your husband brings someone in family, or friend or many that will out perform him, then they won’t have much use for him. They don’t spend any time with people who aren’t “all-in” and bringing in the cash. If he doesn’t go to everything and do everything, they look at him as not “committed” and will treat him as such.

  73. MemoryLame permalink
    April 2, 2013 6:43 pm

    Really, I don’t want to give you false hope. However, in my time in the Team system, no one who missed meetings stayed in long term. There’s a statistic I heard a few times that went something like 50% quit in the first 90 days, 50% of what’s left in 6 months the rest die off at different intervals.

    This site is unique in the fact that there is a small community of people that were in 3 or more years for the most part. My guess is that most of us hit the ground running on full system. Others can back me up or not on that statistic. Numbers like that were thrown around a lot in my early days, when Orrin and Chris were trying to make a case that people don’t stick to a community if they aren’t making money unless they have a great system to plug into. Supposedly a little thing called dot1/step was going to fix the money problem for the new guy.

    It turned out, nothing they changed made those numbers better.

    My thoughts to you would be simply this, you don’t have to support this business (and shouldn’t), but don’t let it cause conflict in your marriage. It isn’t a cheap way to waste money, but it isn’t the only way (or the worst when you consider some alternatives). Don’t give in, but reason with him nicely when the opportunity arises. Start your questions with “Don’t you think…?”
    Don’t you think it would be a good idea to track your profit and expenses for tax time?
    Don’t you think we should save a little for…?
    What do you think about rewarding yourself for your retirement from the military?

    Every meeting he goes to, he will hear a story of a non-supportive spouse who changed their heart BECAUSE of the business. Make sure he knows confidently that you support him IN SPITE of the “business” and see how far you get.

  74. MiniatureGiantSpaceHampster permalink
    April 3, 2013 5:03 am

    Some random thoughts and observations of my brief time in TEAM.

    – One will hear from the person showing the plan how skeptical he or his spouse was when he first joined. Nice way to empathise with a prospect.

    – I picked up on queued clapping. The same one to two people seemed to start the group clapping at specific times during the presentation.

    – Some people try to justify their time in TEAM by highlighting changes in the way they live their life which likely never would have happened otherwise. In my case it kickstarted various changes may have taken years to come to light.

    I’ll leave this post off with a story. Around 2005 I went to college to study in a trade of my choice. This was a nine month program which consisted roughly 50% theory and 50% practical skills. Considering my social development at the time I wouldn’t have gotten my foot in the door any other way. The program was roughly $3700 and I paid about the same in gas for travel which comes to $7400. There were roughly twenty four students in the course of which eight went on to complete their apprenticeship. Two thirds of the class has moved on to other fields, many within the first year of completing the course (the third which never took the course seriously and the third which realized the trade wasn’t what they expected). Everyone I’ve talked to who continued on to receive their license (including myself and those who have previously taken the nine month program) agree it would have been much better to call up a company and get hired on as a labourer. This way you get hands on experience from day one, a true feel of what the trade really is (many are surprised it’s hard work and requires you to get dirty, *gasp*), and you get paid for it. Once you build up enough hours you go for six weeks and study for the same test the person in the nine month program wrote. Subsequently, regardless which path you choose to begin the trade, you will be required to return for three more blocks of six week study (three more exams) as you build up your hours to finally receive your license (one final exam).

    Basically, without the nine month program I likely wouldn’t be where I am today however I would never recommend it to a person getting in to the trade today. Those nine months are far better invested in actually working and gaining real experience than in a program which doesn’t give an accurate depiction of where you’re going. The program breeds people who think they know what they are doing when in actuality they don’t. Most get a wakeup call when they hit the real world.

  75. MiniatureGiantSpaceHampster permalink
    April 3, 2013 5:07 am

    I suppose the moral is, to follow a person on the path to success you must pay heed to their mistakes.

  76. MiniatureGiantSpaceHampster permalink
    April 3, 2013 5:16 am

    Thanks to this blog I’ve been opened up to a whole wealth of awesome websites I never knew existed. This article is awesome.

  77. Husbandislost permalink
    April 8, 2013 5:11 am

    I need some clarity here… What happens at Tuesday night meetings that is so important? Do the meetings determine wether or not you make money? Still trying to figure things out here. Thank you to everyone!

  78. April 8, 2013 7:13 am

    @Husbandislost – read the Anatomy of a TEAM/LIFE Business Presentation to get a sense for what happens at a Tuesday night meeting. Basically, the meeting is split up into several parts, (1) the “opportunity” meeting where they poo-poo society in general and your job, (2) talk about how great TEAM/LIFE leaders are, (3) give a brief introduction to how to make money in whatever MLM TEAM is aligned with at the time, and (4) some “instruction” on how to build the business.

    The meetings start feeling the same after just a few of them (esp. parts 1-3). The goal is to get people to the meeting. The group will amplify your efforts — through love bombing — to keep the prospect interested in you and the business.

  79. Husbandislost permalink
    April 8, 2013 7:55 am

    Ok looks like I need to read the link. I’m guessing it’s not very important if you aren’t attending the meetings. Thanks for info

  80. Husbandislost permalink
    April 8, 2013 10:36 am

    Here’s a fb conversation that I found interesting…. Just a political rant or pointing LIFE out to everyone?? Feel free to give your feedback on it!
    I will change names

    Status update by Ford:
    It’s not about someone doing everything, it’s about everyone doing SOMETHING! This country isn’t going to fix itself and these people need LEADERSHIP!

    Comment by Chevy: This country needs new leadership. In all 3 houses….

    Comment by Kia:
    They need someone to tell them to cowboy the fuck up and stop whining about everything!

    Comment by Ford:
    It most certainly does Chevy But, to me what is more important is taking control of what we CAN control, helping each other and lifting each other up. Relying on the f’d up government we have is the majority of the problem in itself. In my opinion, that is. It starts with us. Our mentaility MUST change.

    Comment by Ford: Think about what you do each day….. trading your time for money to fund the govt that is raping your liberty, to pay your bills, to feed and clothe your kids, maybe to put a little away for the future while the value of that “saved” dollar plummets. And for what, to be on the tail end of the Ponzi scheme that is Social Security? Our forefathers fought a revolution for a tax of 1%! What do you pay, and what are uou doing to stop the madness? Think about that during your daily grind earning those big bucks of little value.

    There were other comments but nothing in specific & no others from the person who posted it.

  81. Freedomhaha permalink
    April 8, 2013 5:33 pm

    Husbandislost- Yeah, that is a lot of Teamspeak in there. That rant sounds like it could be quotes from Orrin or Chris. One of the major problems with Team is that they take a kernel of truth (ex: small government is good) and squeeze the truth right out of the principal and use it to further bring people into the cult.

  82. April 8, 2013 10:07 pm

    The federal government is to Orrin and TEAMmunists as the U.S. is to North Korea.

    Cults create an enemy out of thin air to marshal their followers against. The intent is surreptitious – a move to sustain and propagate authoritarian hold on their peons as the latter’s minds are busily pre-occupied with…well railing against the enemy, just like the supreme leader said. It’s a cult trait..

  83. April 8, 2013 10:37 pm

    Actually let’s complete that, the federal government is to Orrin and TEAMmunists as the U.S. is to North Korea, i.e. the figment resident-enemy within their comparable cult mindsets.

  84. ageofwisdom51 permalink
    April 9, 2013 2:57 am

    @ExAmbot and HusbandisLost: I think what you, Exambot stated about what the government is/viewed by to OW and CB is what I picked on up first when I first began the extensive review of what they had written. That was when it became apparent that they were running a mini-version of a Hitleresque propaganda machine.

    I wonder which one of the masterminds wrote this quote listed by HusbandisLost which is: “trading your time for money to fund the govt that is raping your liberty, to pay your bills, to feed and clothe your kids, maybe to put a little away for the future while the value of that “saved” dollar plummets. And for what, to be on the tail end of the Ponzi scheme that is Social Security?…”

    Let me get this right: Social Security is the Ponzi scheme, but Wall Street speculation isn’t? !! Bwahahahahahahaha!!! Man, if this is what they are instilling in this organization, I feel sorry for those getting hammered with these skewed views. Hmmmm, interesting that the ol’ “Ponzi scheme SS fund” had enough money in it to help bail out Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac when the Wall Streeters over-speculated (in the TRUE Ponzi scheme which the feds knew should be regulated back in the 1990’s) into the current recession/depression (along with the oil games we’ve loved to play for the last 40 yrs).

    Where did ‘HusbandIsLost’ get these quotes? Right from Team/Lifers? I just don’t get how anyone from this “biz” could be spewing such ludicrous stuff!

  85. ageofwisdom51 permalink
    April 9, 2013 3:26 am

    PS to above post: I wonder if they are also now teaching that just this past week, Fannie Mae announced it was doing so well again that it was prepared to repay the feds 50 billion dollars. Now it remains to be seen if the “sacred fund that was not to be touched but helped to bail out these mortgage backers” actually gets back into the correct piggy bank. In 2008, Wall Street speculators were betting amongst each other (in ways that used to be outlawed) about the mortgage industry/ When it collided with the oil/fossil fuel problem, well, especially we little people were left swinging in the breeze with our mortgage/property undies out to dry.

    All in all, I don’t get how people can just get into an “iffy” business and not do research of supposed “facts” to find out if what they are being told is the truth. We need to be careful—even cable stations like the History Channel and National Geographic (Nat Geo) have been caught changing history and using/promoting their point of view instead of fact at times. It’s like George Orwell’s ‘1984’ hammering in bias/prejudice as justifiable fact—and that’s also what happened in Nazi Germany.

    As time goes on, I get more and more stupefied when I see young folks just starting out in life turning into vehement, zealous right-wingers (more common that far left). I see this on facebook, too. No wonder when the Pied Piper Promoting Unfettered Capitalism and promising easy supposed residual income came waltzing down the proverbial pike, people got, and still get sucked in. (Am I assuming correctly that the large proportion of folks getting into Life-Team/Training are in their 20’s? Yes, I’ve seen older folks in the video audiences, but perhaps you guys can answer better: to me it looks like 20’s-30’s dominate the age group of most getting into this? I know that’s when I was far more interested in the more legit MLM businesses with real/renewable consumer products like Avon, Mary Kay and Amway, too, back in the late 60’s-early 70’s. )

  86. Husbandislost permalink
    April 9, 2013 4:21 am

    When I first read it I figured it was a LIFE promotion type thing! I’ve NEVER attended a meeting so I couldn’t say I was 100% sure. I can say the poster of this fb status update is in their early 30’s & it wasn’t my husband fortunately! I’m sure they’re td to promote on social media but my husband sucks at social media. Also he’s missing another Tuesday night meeting tonight as he is home today & will be missing again next week so that will make 3 weeks in a row! Not sure how they handle missing meetings but I’m glad I can pull him away to a certain extent!!!

  87. April 9, 2013 5:16 am

    I know that “speak” because it was in me. It’s very ScAmway-charlatanism originated if you will.

  88. April 9, 2013 5:19 am


    Thanx for the updates. I am square in your corner cheering for you. Soon, at this rate all that will be a nightmare in your past.

  89. Former Round Table permalink
    April 9, 2013 5:20 am

    Wisdom, I appreciate much of what you contribute. In a relatively short period of time, you have grasped Orrin’s character and purposes better than many who have been involved with him for years.

    I have a favor to ask–can you please stop bashing right-wingers? I happen to be one. Orrin has perverted two things that I hold dear: Christianity and conservatism. He has perverted them to suit his needs. He does NOT stand for true Christianity OR true conservatism. I choose to toss out Orrin, not my religion or my political beliefs.

    I do NOT want to debate liberal vs. conservative. I am careful not to criticize liberals on this site because that is not why we are here.

  90. ageofwisdom51 permalink
    April 9, 2013 6:54 am

    @FRT: am not bashing right wingers……am bashing extremism or FAR right, overly-zealous wingers (and the same holds true of extremists left-wingers for me). Am not debating liberalism vs. conservatism per se. I believe in the majority of my posts, I tried to make it clear that it’s extremism in any form that’s dangerous.

  91. ageofwisdom51 permalink
    April 9, 2013 7:36 am

    PS to FRT: what makes you think I’m a liberal tree-huggin’ socialistic whatever?—LOL!! I’m not. In fact, I just signed a petition against the Democratic latest fiasco of “chained CPI”. The sad fact is: OW and CB have included and inculcated extreme right wingism into this biz. If one avoids talking about it, nothing is accomplished–for the incongruity of it all is what leads to the Cognitive Dissonance (another term I spoke of months ago that seems to be catching on here on this board). The bastardization of what most modern-day folks consider their Christianity to be and their Conservatism to be (except fruitcakes like M. Bachmann etal which even maminstream Conservatives are now trying to distance themselves from) heavily covers almost ALL of LIfe/Team/Training’s inculcation. So perhaps some new terms need to be devloped to regular ol’ Conservatives on here don’t need to get their undies in a bundle?

    Oh, and I didn’t just suddenly “catch on” to this type of biz. I was first exposed back in the late 60’s as a teenager. While it’s true that some do fabulously well in businesses like Avon, early Amway, etc.—the bulk of us did not in doing door-to-door (the best Avon income to do back then was work in a factory or large group of women and just leave a book on the table). Then, if you remember (not sure of your age), in the early 1980’s, we actually had MLM-hawking on TV every night–the early version of infomercials actually hawked pyramid schemes that were one step above chain-lettering for money. Later, one of those two men doing that program would go on to hawk mattresses, etc., in regular commercials. Of course, then one time, also early 80’s, a lot of us got busted in a chain-letter scheme. So, I’d say, it’s more experience than anything.

  92. Freedomhaha permalink
    April 10, 2013 6:16 pm

    Former Round Table-
    “Orrin has perverted two things that I hold dear: Christianity and conservatism. He has perverted them to suit his needs. He does NOT stand for true Christianity OR true conservatism. I choose to toss out Orrin, not my religion or my political beliefs.”

    I wanted to tell you how much I appreciated this comment. I say this with no comment to ageofwisdom at all, but rather this comment in a vacuum. Orrin does twist these things and it has made me so extremely sick. Thank you for putting my thoughts into words better than I can do! 🙂

  93. ageofwisdom51 permalink
    April 11, 2013 2:19 am

    Yeah, well what I’d like to know is: how the HELL could anyone on here accuse me of simplly bashing conservatism instead of extremists??? That’s absolutely absurd!!! And taken completely out of context of what I’ve been saying for the past 9 to 10 months. I just love it when the sharks don’t have some new anonymous LIFE person coming on here to go after, BECAUSE then sooner or later, ya come after me. You don’t do it to each other….not even someone who was in LIFE a week and dropped out. But no one had the balls to step and and say to FRT: You are wrong–that is not what ageofwisdom was doing. This time, I truly am out of here…….you can all just sit here and eat each other alive.

  94. April 11, 2013 8:32 am

    @ageofwisdom, @FRT and all:

    The focus of our discussion here should be on revealing how MLMs such as TEAM/LIFE are (1) bad business opportunities for the majority of their participants and (2) how they use politics and religion to manipulate, coerce, and control their membership.

    We sometimes inject our own personal political and religious beliefs in our comments. This has the possibility of being misconstrued by other readers. This is one reason why I rarely talk about my political or religious beliefs on this blog. While we may have differences of opinions on religion or politics, we shouldn’t let those differences get in the way of our belief that MLMs such as TEAM/LIFE are doing more harm than good.

  95. Freedomhaha permalink
    April 11, 2013 10:58 am

    Ageofwisdom- That you for your important contribution to this cause.

  96. Hisbandislost permalink
    April 16, 2013 4:18 pm

    Today makes 3 weeks husband hasn’t attended an open Tuesday night meeting. Although I don’t feel he’s out yet I’m still hoping somehow he will start seeing what this truly is!!

  97. Melanie Morgan permalink
    April 16, 2013 9:41 pm


    I am hoping with you especially when this is having a negative impact on your family.

  98. Husbandislost permalink
    April 17, 2013 4:57 am

    Thank you Melanie. He has tried the “lingo” on me the last couple of days. I don’t have to listen to CDs or attend meetings to know! I just blow him off with it though. Yesterday I was told I need to stop listening to myself & start talking to myself! I thought that has to be the dumbest thing I’ve ever heard! This summer will be the real defining point of if he will learn to walk away. We will wait & see! Until then I have to learn to be patient & wait it out. Thank you to everyone for listening & supporting me through this trial!

  99. Melanie Morgan permalink
    April 17, 2013 9:53 am


    “He has tried the “lingo” on me the last couple of days. I don’t have to listen to CDs or attend meetings to know!”

    So true!

    Haha, yes unfortunately the lingo” takes over all communication and thoughts and may only become more annoying the longer he listens to them.

    You don’t have to “listen” to a CD, because you “listen” to HIM, and he has now became the CD! I been there, it stifles any original thought!

  100. Husbandislost permalink
    April 19, 2013 4:00 pm

    These people are laughing all the way to the bank on how much $ they’re making off people! Husbands latest deposit was in SINGLE digits for this month!! I’m actually kinda amused that we are monthS into this & he’s in RED! He hasn’t even made $100!! How blind can one be?!?

  101. April 20, 2013 9:14 am

    That’s how blind one is while under an MLM induced cultic spell.

    Thanks to inept, false, ill advised declarations such as “when the dream is big enough the facts don’t count, fake it till you make it, your success is just around the corner you can’t quit now, you need to grow first before you can build a big business (achoo achoo), etc,” all help in brainwashing an unwitting MLM victim to their own detriment-financially, relationally, mentally, opportunity costs such as time lost, etc.

    Amongst a plethora of crafty techniques and procedures courtesy of the charlatans in charge, all converge to mentally castrate intellectual and thinking faculties of MLM adherents. So smooth are the perpetrators and their insidious methods that their victims never notice the shenanigans hoisted upon them.

    A snap-out-of-it moment if you will, cannot arrive fast enough for those around such a person. Nevertheless, it does come as yours will, hang tight.

  102. Husbandislost permalink
    April 22, 2013 5:31 pm

    My concern is they already have him so warped that he won’t go with deal we made at beginning. He agreed that if he doesn’t make certain $ amount in 6 months he’ll quit. As of this month he’s not anywhere near that amount of money.

    I have a friend who husband tried recruiting recently. This guy has ZERO INTEREST so we’ll see how things play out after he & husband have their next conversation. He’s already let me know he has many questions to ask him & best part is he’s not afraid to hurt my husbands feelings. That’s been our downfall with family, they will say they have no interest but won’t go past that because they’re worried about hurting feelings.

  103. Freedomhaha permalink
    April 23, 2013 7:01 am

    Husbandislost- Don’t ever lose faith that a member of this cult is in too deep. I know that is an easy thing to say from the outside, but all of the contributors were in that deep, or even deeper at one point while we were on TEAM Life. I firmly believe that anyone can break free from the imprisonment that you are subjected to on TEAM.

    I will continue to pray for your husband.

  104. Husbandislost permalink
    April 23, 2013 3:23 pm

    Week 4 in a row no meeting for husband! This time it’s a little different. He somehow hurt himself over the weekend so doctor has him off his feet today. I’m truly hoping all this time away will start to affect him! Although “buddy” that got him involved continues to send him text messages about it! First thing Sunday morning husbands phone was being blown up with messages from “buddy” I didn’t let myself read all of it but it was something about a “special deal” It won’t be long before husband no longer works with this guy! In fact they won’t even live within driving distance of one another!! I keep praying this will wake him up! As much as I don’t like seeing husband in pain I feel god works in mysterious ways! He wanted to see a doctor yesterday but couldn’t get an appt so he had to HDTV off another day & now he’s not allowed out tonight!! Thank you for your prayers! I really appreciate them! It’s hard when your own family doesn’t back you up! None of them have any interest in signing up but they also don’t feel he’s doing anything wrong. They just say he could be doing worst! :/ thanks again!!!!!

  105. April 23, 2013 9:55 pm

    “My concern is they already have him so warped that he won’t go with deal we made at beginning. He agreed that if he doesn’t make certain $ amount in 6 months he’ll quit. As of this month he’s not anywhere near that amount of money. ”

    Don’t worry about the warping. Eventually it unwraps – we know, we were wrapped and warped and we wrapped and warped others (into it other MLM, same crap, not proud).

    But you are gonna have to find a tactful way to remind/hold him accountable to the deal he promised without, excuse me, hen-pecking him, lest you drive him deeper into a TEAM resolve.

  106. Freedomhaha permalink
    April 24, 2013 5:46 am

    I am more committed today than ever to trying to end TEAM even almost two years since I have left TEAM.

  107. Husbandislost permalink
    April 24, 2013 3:18 pm

    @exambot… I agree that I have to find a way to approach him lightly. I’ve already realized the harder I push the more he tries to be involved. We aren’t to the 6 month mark yet so I still have time to figure out how I’m going to approach it. I just feel they have him convinced that it takes more than 6 months to make any profit. Well he’s not even profited $1, in fact he’s NEGATIVE triple digits! It’s like he’s not looking at what comes out of account just what goes in. I know he thought he hit jackpot last month when the deposit was in double digits but I’m no fool. I caught on to their game immediately. It was only that much because they made a mistake & had to fix it. There was a book signing yesterday in our area that I should’ve gone to just to see if anyone other than “buddy” showed up.! i guess you could say I chose my kids over something so dumb. It wasn’t worth time or gas to get there, especially with my kids. It makes me crazy these people can brainwash so many people!

    @freedomhaha.. If there is anything I can do to help please let me know! I know I’d LOVE to see them crumble!!!

  108. Husbandislost permalink
    April 24, 2013 3:23 pm

    If anyone could use a package with recent info in it let me know & I’ll send it to you in mail! Not that anyone cares to hear the BS but if it could be of use to you I’ll gladly get rid of it! When you are finished you can burn it, do whatever you please!

  109. April 25, 2013 5:25 am

    If there are no takers and you have a gun shoot it, make a short video for youtube shooting the crap, post a link (or any other crazy way of destroying it)

  110. Husbandislost permalink
    April 25, 2013 5:33 am

    Recent FB post by husbands “Buddy”

    Just received news that LeaderShift made the NY Times best seller list! God and LIFE is great!

  111. Husbandislost permalink
    April 25, 2013 5:34 am

    @exambot… Great idea, I just may have to do that! 🙂

  112. April 25, 2013 5:43 am

    “Just received news that LeaderShift made the NY Times best seller list! God and LIFE is great!”

    When one doesn’t use critical thinking things they say, do, justify are flabbergasting. What’s God got to do with a gamed NYT BSL entry? Jeez!

  113. Former Round Table permalink
    April 25, 2013 9:21 am

    Interesting. I can’t seem to find it listed on the NY Times list.

  114. Husbandislost permalink
    April 25, 2013 10:34 am

    You are correct, I just did a search on NY Times website & it comes up with NOTHING by the book title.

  115. April 25, 2013 10:37 am

    Ha! You are right. I see as of today, people are still interested in Fifty Shades of … whatever than in Orrin’s crap book, yet his hoodwinked followers are already declaring it made the list? What jesters these are. Much putting the cart before the horsie – a practice common to cultists. I don’t doubt that it will make the list, what with a loyal hoodwinked cult base scooping up 5, 10-20 copies per each adherent. But I won’t be impressed, nor will I be reading it, not even enough to use it as a stand to something in my home.

  116. April 25, 2013 11:08 am

    The current list is for March. When NY Times updates it for April, we’ll see. Look for the dagger symbol next to the title name. If it’s present, it means bulk sales were reported for the book.

  117. Melanie Morgan permalink
    April 25, 2013 3:22 pm


    Great news! The longer he is away the more tIme he has to UN-warped himself and regain his sense!

    As Exambot- haha!

    You can send me your garbage info. 🙂 contact me through Amthrax if you like.

    Best seller organically? Hahaha.I will NOT be buying that either.

    I believe they did just like they always did, have a promotion and offer some “special deal” for those who would buy the book and get it signed. Why would they change what worked in th e past except they probably won’t be sending down on book of month..that now has been exposed.

    They just get everyone pumped up through many months of constant indoctrinating messages leading up to their strategic grand finale….That is how . It works. With lots n lots n of hype,…then strike with some special promotion that the followers think they can’t resist or have to be loyal .

    Tragically or humorous, they now think ,WOW, look they are right we a ‘re changing the world and Orrin is like a worshipped deity. Just look at all these people (who show up when we tell them to ), They don’t even recognized how they be we’re played and have fooled themselves!

    Does anyone question…where is the rest of the world, no they don’t. Seems obvious everyone at these book signings are on the team or family,kids of those already on the team?

  118. April 25, 2013 3:55 pm


    After you get garbage any chance of a vid tearing it down with a pink AR-57 or magnum .357?

  119. Melanie Morgan permalink
    April 25, 2013 4:43 pm

    LOL !. How bout the “sledge hammer to alarm clock” effect? hahaha

  120. Husbandislost permalink
    April 25, 2013 5:15 pm

    @Melanie… It’s yours! Hope you can benefit from it as in using it to shut life down! I already have your info so it will get dropped in mail tomorrow! (We’ve talked in emails before) ….. I was thinking of the you tube video where the dad shoots his kids laptop! If only I lived on land where I could shoot at my house. I could’ve titled it “Wife teaches husband a lesson on pyramid schemes” lol maybe put in the number of bullets to represent the $ amount that he’s negative! 😉

  121. Melanie Morgan permalink
    April 25, 2013 8:06 pm

    Oh no, no,no… I just want some of the “correct” information.. in my life, (as they would say) hahaha! Your idea is way too funny.

    Speaking of being shut down, I am not sure if anyone else has read the book SCAPEGOAT by Joesph Iaacs, if you haven’t you should!; a true hero in my book. A very sad, and disturbingly corrupt true tale of how those with a lot of money (ill-gotten) j hire big ticket attorneys to try and destroy those who don’t have it. The book speaks of one of their attorney’s (FHTM) that was representing them in the state of Kentucky..WITHOUT the license to do so!!! Is there any ethics?

    The way I read and understand it, (Iaacs) was being sued for a trademark infringement by FHTM for (using the word fortune in his web address which used for a system for the MLM industry in general)… and you won’t believe this one… wait for it…..Fortune Hi-Tech Marketing didn’t even own the trademark!!!!….. Fortune Magazine, Did!!

    And if that doesn’t blow your mind; Fortune Hi-Tech Marketing was sent a cease and desist for using the trademarked name by Fortune Magazine, remember they had the rights to the Fortune name… 2 years prior to Iaacs ever being involved and it said that is why they changed and use FHTM. And if I read it right, this lawsuit was allowed to continue against Iaacs for i believe 2 or 3 years in court! I was seriously flabbergasted… it is appalling and sad corrupt world we live in when this can even happen!! Where is the “justice?” How could an attorney live with himself or even argue knowing this?

    The worst is Joesph Iaacs almost died, standing up to this harassment and according to him, that seemed to be their motive….he suffered 3 heart attacks because of what he went through!!

    Now can ANYONE tell me how this could even be possible.or what Judge would allow this to continue or how can anyone call this “justice”…People are supposed to believe in a The legal court system in the United States of America and call it justice, really? You wonder why no one trusts the system!

    I am not that naive but was in absolute shock reading this, and am going to read it again just to make sure I read all of this right, it is that unbelievable!! I guess I want to still believe in America and believe most people would do the right, this industry has proven a different reality.

    I sincerely want to know how these people can sleep at night or how they do not collapse under their own conscience and how do they convince themselves they won’t eventually pay a price for what I see as down right evil?! Maybe it is just me and my opinion.

    The story is unbelievable! I hear people in the industry throw around words, like a rag doll…. integrity, honesty, Christianity, character, and every noble attribute and virtue as if these people have a chard of it and treat others with it! It may seem on the surface as true but learn about the stories behind the curtain. That book read similar with the real shock factor as did Merchants of ‘Deception.

    As we now know FHTM got shut down and probably still in courts, because God knows that is slow and arduous drug out very costly and it seems never ending process.

    So Joesph Iaacs truth now has been vindicated but not without it seems go to hell and back..trial and story of damage.

    And if anyone knows how I can talk with Joesph Iaacs, please let me know! I would love to personally commend him for his courage. I don’t care if you are for or against MLM when you read the story, along with others like his, how can anyone not see the common threads and not want it to end in this industry, stop denying it and you would have to be heartless to follow and ignore the facts; that way more common, that not.

    It really makes you wonder if any of them have any morals and or a conscience. It truly is a chilling and corrupt tale and how some really operate behind their “Christian” facades.

    Amazing to say the least.

  122. Former Round Table permalink
    April 26, 2013 5:10 am

    This country does NOT have a justice system. We have a LEGAL system that is organized to provide income for those in the LEGAL profession. I found out the hard way that justice has nothing to do with it.

  123. Husbandislost permalink
    April 26, 2013 8:47 am

    Running out of quotes maybe? I’ve seen him post this one a few different times on his fb page!

    “If not this, then what? If not now, then when?”

    **After reading comments from friends that commented they have no clue what he’s talking about & they’re not asking!

  124. April 26, 2013 12:10 pm

    All MLMers say that. It’s circa scAmway way back when Noah was used to hang around, if I looked closely I think I might have heard him say that a classic tape I had, I got rid of it.

  125. April 26, 2013 12:11 pm

    Oh BTW ambots always thought it was a profound thing to say.

  126. April 26, 2013 12:12 pm

    @Former Round Table said,

    Ditto Oliver Wendell Holmes, “This is a court of law, young man, not a court of justice.”

  127. Husbandislost permalink
    April 30, 2013 3:34 pm

    Ok here we are Tuesday…. Meetings normally would start at 7pm if I remember correctly! Well it’s 7:17pm & I just spoke to husband on phone & he’s NOT at a meeting! Now I haven’t asked why because I don’t want to push anything to make him dig deeper as the 6 month mark is soon approaching! I did make a comment over this past weekend to him about changing credit card info to a desperate acct other than our family acct. (baby steps) All I said was I’d like for you to change the credit card to this other acct so you can actually see what’s coming in & what’s going out. He said “ok” so now we see what happens in May! I don’t know if he’s slowly losing interest or what is happening! He still has books & still listens to CDs but that seems to be extent of it! I think maybe he’s run out of people to recruit & doesn’t know where to turn. (This is just my assumption)! But why isn’t he attending meetings is what I’m trying to figure out! Aren’t these meetings so important that if you don’t attend for over a month it’s a bad thing? He’s never bought a ticket to any kind of conference but his “buddy” has!

    “Buddy” & his wife on the other hand are so gun ho I feel queasy when I read his fb!

    “The significant problems you have in life can’t be solved with the same level of thinking they were created with.”

    “Almost 6 months ago when (wife’s name) and I opened this whole new chapter in our life, we never imagined this. The close friends we have made, the awesome people we have met, the improved outlook on our lives and the situations that surround us, and the amount we have learned about ourselves, each other, and the power of reading, listening and associating. We didn’t know what we didn’t know. So proud of you (wife’s name)! God contnues to bless us every day! I love you!”
    Wife’s comment: ” What is the definition of Leadership to you? Do you define yourself as a Leader? Are you a parent? Friend? Co-worker? You lead people everywhere in your LIFE believe it or not…we all Lead in some aspect in LIFE. The question is are you Leading with the right information? Curious as to what I am leading to? ( no pun intended…) then ask what I am talking about right now and you will be amazed! I have the cookie and trust me you don’t want to miss a crumble of it! Message me or call (husbands name) you gotta hear what we have to say, need to talk to you…all of you! ♥ you all make sure you talk to (husbands name) or I you are going to be blown away! ♥”

    “work work work work work work work work work….. money.”

    Wife’s comment:
    “soon… it will be more like… work work work work…money….work work work…money….work….money…..MONEY….MONEY…..MONEY….$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ and not only that but to better ourselves and those around us and make a difference in the world.”

    Last fb post! ”
    Start Starting, and Quit Quitting!!!”

    All of these are just from this past Sunday-today

    My thoughts: PITIFUL!!!

  128. noteam permalink
    April 30, 2013 5:16 pm

    Husbandislost – Unfortunately, meeting always start at 8pm, not 7pm.

  129. April 30, 2013 5:34 pm

    All of that rhetoric and quotes are from old CDs (yawn) they made while they were in Quixtar/Amway. Your husbands buddy and wife are a perfect example of how your language and thoughts lack or are a sad waste of originality and their speech is nothing more than listening to a parrot.

    It is what happens when you allow someone else to have undue influence in your life. In other words it is how you can recognize the brainwashing. There is a thread on this site chuck full of this cult chagrin, I forgot where but read that and it will all become very clear and you will learn quickly to recognize the cult jargon.

    It is also the way your “up-line” can tell if you`’re getting brainwashed and therefore an indicator to how much time they will spend on you.

    So glad I`m free! There is nothing more precious , than freedom of your mind! The freedom to be you and not some robot! No wonder why people find their “tools” hanging on the door knobs of their prospects house with the curtains drawn cuz they are hiding on the floor… bahaha…the rest of the world knows’ something just ain`t right and weird with their ways. 😉

  130. Husbandislost permalink
    April 30, 2013 5:35 pm

    Actually husbands “buddy” always starts them at 7:00 pm at his house & they would last until approximately 10pm! No matter it’s 9:30pm & I just spoke with him & he’s still NOT at meeting!

  131. Husbandislost permalink
    April 30, 2013 5:39 pm

    Oh & Melanie I finally dropped package in the mail to you today! Funny thing is I haven’t been to any of these & I’ve already picked up on the language!!

  132. Melanie Morgan permalink
    April 30, 2013 7:42 pm


    The purpose and constant repetition of controlled information (what goes in must come out)..certainly is effective in controlling others; minds, behavior, actions, beliefs, and language.

    Obvious isn’t it….

    If they were honest ( but their not)····they would have to admit they are exactly like those they have consider the enemy…media, advertising, educators, government, everyone one but them…they want you to believe you should and must shut out all information except what they feed you, at least if you want to be “$uccessful” by their judgement and worldly standards..they want you to completely isolate and emerse yourself in only their information and fight yourself and the rest of the world so they can own you and YOUR time, money, and mind!

    It is the only way they can keep their scam alive and feeding the Top and theirs lifestyles besides the shifting taking teams and special deals…their cash cow would collapse without other people’s internal money! They will tell you, to you must “change your thinking”(to the way they want you to for their benefit),

    Quite amazing how they get people to think they are smarter than Einstein while you can become not so much because your language and thinking shrink.

    The reality is they think for you…you quit thinking on your Yep, no doubt.. it is blatant in the comments of those defenders on here or if you have been in and experienced this yourself..or have loved ones in, all it is self evident..all of them who come here are even willing to lose their business for violating their own contracts…where is the ethics and honesty in this?..and some would even have the audacity to call others on here dishonest? Really? Well, any sane reader can figure out for themselves who is being dishonest.

    They blame the rest of the world for…”dumbing you down”….to bad people didn’t recognize that is what the cd’s are doing to them…but to those who need someone else to tell them what and how to live or if you desire to be controlled then the language and quotes you will find meet their and your agenda perfectly . .

    The information is very tightly hand picked, and super effective in creating the “us vs. Them” mentality…the rest of the world becomes and is their enemy because it is their competition for they are fighting them over having all of YOU!

  133. Melanie Morgan permalink
    April 30, 2013 7:44 pm


  134. May 1, 2013 9:06 am


    “The significant problems you have in life can’t be solved with the same level of thinking they were created with.”

    LOL, nothing new there. That is the same specious rhetoric I was taught & bit into in scAmway/Quixtar circa 2001. Never mind that it’s not even original to TEAMmunists nor the former, it leaves a newbie with elated admiration of an upline the first time they hear it – upline is wise and super duper triple ripple awesome! & the like.

    After quitting I came to learn where these charlatans had lifted that info from – John Maxwell texts! And they are available for free at the local library or can be had for much less from Amazon/eBay than it costs in time and thousands of $$$ in pretend & exploitative MLM “industry.” Talk’bout having blinders on.

    Maxwell doesn’t charge anywhere near what MLM charlatans do to their adherents for his ideas, surely the audacity must floor him.

  135. Freedomhaha permalink
    May 1, 2013 4:58 pm

    Ugh, it makes me sick that my social media was once covered with that garbage. I scrubbed it all clean thankfully 🙂


  136. Husbandislost permalink
    May 1, 2013 6:32 pm

    Bet you won’t find this on any of the “faith” CDs!

    Proverbs 13:11-13
    New Living Translation (NLT)
    11 Wealth from get-rich-quick schemes quickly disappears;
    wealth from hard work grows over time.
    12 Hope deferred makes the heart sick,
    but a dream fulfilled is a tree of life.
    13 People who despise advice are asking for trouble; those who respect a command will succeed.

  137. Husbandislost permalink
    May 14, 2013 3:55 pm

    I am now starting to see messages where husbands “buddy” is encouraging people that it’s ok if there wife isn’t involved. He says it would be nice but not necessary! Really!?!? You are willing to interfere with marriages to make your money! Just disgusts me!!
    @Melanie Morgan… I hope you received the package I sent!!

  138. Melanie Morgan permalink
    May 14, 2013 5:12 pm

    I did and thank you! Trying to hold in the guys out of desperation, haha…they would say…don’t worry when you start making a lot of money your spouse will come around.

  139. Husbandislost permalink
    May 15, 2013 5:20 am

    Glad you received it!
    ….don’t worry when you start making a lot of money your spouse will come around.

    Exactly what my husband said to me when he first started!! So far he’s still negative & hasn’t been to a meeting in over a month! They still text him religiously!

  140. The Truth Hurts permalink
    May 18, 2013 8:09 am

    I am amazed at how brave the many people are that come to this Site and tell the TRUTH! Good for each and every one of you..remember, evil flourishes when good men stand by and do nothing, and this site does something, in my opinion, something fantastic! This site can help people break their bondage to the cult of greed, manipulation, and the street leading many to the Boulevard of Broken Dreams, ruined finances, and utter depression due to being dumped and abandoned by those they thought were life long friends.

    I got out years ago, before this site became they place to go to get help. There was basically only one lone voice raised in protest then, and we know who this man was..he was brave, and ended up muzzled in court for his efforts to disclose the TRUTH about these utterly despicable hooligans. His character was much maligned too.

    In my case, I simply started telling the truth if someone I knew was still involved, I gave the facts, or if someone asked me about it, I told the facts, no fluff. My result? I was threatened in my own home, told I would be ruined, now that’s the sign of a legit business model..NOT! Who would do such a thing in any event? Is the business model so flawed that it cannot stand up to criticism? The irony here is that the american ideals of free speech are praised at meetings.

    This American values free speech, and this is a great site to exercise just that..FREE SPEECH. I have also determined that I will not be “politically correct” and curve my thought processes in the future. To do so puts me in a position I was in while in the business..muzzled. I will speak out with courtesy, but I will state my convictions for ever more.

    It is a shame that money made by those that purport on stage to uphold the ideals that make America great, use those very financial gains to attempt to put mufflers on those that dare to stand up and challenge their “business model” of massive losses to the down line. There are figures widely available to the public, contained in a lawsuit, concerning what the actual rate is of people who make any money, should one want to look it up. What a twist..brilliant, yet deceitful, and at times out right decadent. Speak of America, and all she stands for, yet attack those who speak freely but cannot defend themselves against money spent on teams of lawyers designed to stifle the speech of people who object. Maybe that is the true meaning of handling objections??

    Melanie Morgan, I met you once, actually you and your Husband more than one, so congrats on not only getting free, but helping others to see the light too.

    The above is based upon my experiences, and my opinion.

  141. Melanie Morgan permalink
    May 18, 2013 9:48 am

    The Truth Hurts-

    Thank you for your kindness and support. That was an amazing post! As it has been spoken from one of my favorite movies….You are kind. You are smart. You are important.

  142. Melanie Morgan permalink
    May 18, 2013 4:14 pm

    The Truth Hurts-

    Could you share more on and who threatened you? I have heard about these cowardly bullies using this disgusting attempt on others, too.

    They must live in fear of every dirty hidden deed being found out? Do their wives know every one of their dirty little secrets, threats, teams they decimated, are they just hoping it will never be disclosed or do they really believe they will never be held accountable? I believe it is inevitable.

    Someday the Emporers might find themselves bare,…reaping what they have sown, and every single dirty secret will come to light.

  143. Chrisxrascal permalink
    May 19, 2013 12:20 am

    The truth hurts – I’ve been free of team since January. I am glad I made the choice. To others, I hope that they see through the smoke and mirrors and break away from the bondage of team. The truth may hurt, but it will set you free!

  144. Freedomhaha permalink
    May 19, 2013 11:26 am

    TheTruthHurts and Amthrax- Can we do something to keep that post from getting lost in the shuffle of the thousands of posts on this site. I don’t know about running a blog, but I would love to see that post “pinned” to the top, or maybe even given its own post. It is short and concise while hitting most of our major arguments against TEAM. Thank you thank you thank you for coming on here and sharing your story!!

  145. The Truth Hurts permalink
    May 19, 2013 5:12 pm


    I have pondered how to answer your question about being threatened because I proclaimed the truth long ago about the “business”. I would hazard a guess Melanie, that you may have heard about this some years back; several people were actually out right talking about what happened to me. You see, at the time I was so infuriated that those Hooligans would come into my own home and out right threaten me that I promptly called several people I knew in this Leaders legs and told them EXACTLY what had just transpired. The whole truth will always set you free, and I spared no detail. I was surprised to have some big volume Leaders call me a few weeks later and tell me they had heard this rumor, and was it true. Of course I confirmed it was true, and due to the subsequent conversation, an up and coming Leader has the class and moral fiber to walk away.

    Even years later, I wonder about a few things. For instance, if the “business” is so great, residual will-able income, blah blah and more blah, than why would what I said to others (which was the plain unvarnished truth) hurt anyone’s team? To have just one persons criticism have an effect that would make a supposed Leader act like a Thug and cretin, come into my home and threaten me, tell me that they had enough money to ruin me, make it awful for me, etc. etc. I find this amazing to this day. Did this Leader think it was moral to get up on a stage and tell tales? Did this Leader think it was alright to threaten someone in their home, (which actually could be a chargeable offense in a court of law) then talk about how great the business was on stage, telling everyone they “loved” them. I would hazard a guess that the “love” extends only so far as your wallet continues to open to pay for tools. I have said it before, these people make the Adams Family look functional. I think the end issue was that the business is built on a house of cards, and one must always be dealing a new hand to keep the players in the game, or have to be constantly bringing more players to the table. It must be either exhausting, or, one must have to swallow a lot of purple juice to keep on going.

    Whohoo! Go Turbo 50, Turbo 100, yes you big builder, you have promised things that will never happen to get these peeps here, but you put butts in the seats so we can laugh all the way to the bank! We LOVE YOU, especially when we split the pot we just raked in afterwards.

    Oh, sorry. I forgot, it is mental and life help now. Yep, right, like I would get advice from Hooligans about my life..someone with the results..what results. What about results like seeing a name on a door with letters after it, like Dr so and so PHD or MD if one needs to go for help? Talk about being Guru’s of Greed.

    The above is based upon my experiences and solely my opinions.

  146. May 20, 2013 11:15 am

    @Freedomhaha – which post are you referring to?

  147. Melanie Morgan permalink
    May 21, 2013 12:53 pm

    The Truth Hurts-

    I am still not not quite sure, I know your story but I sincerely appreciate your response, guts and honesty to stand on what is right.Perhaps sometime we could talk live.

    Unfortunately there are so many disgustingly disturbing examples of their bully like behavior such as yours that we could write a book and would seem the norm of how these misleading bullies behave behind closed doors.

    But the truth is told; You reap what you sow, and there will come a time when justice gets served. It is just isn’t certain how it will manifest…but it will.


  148. Melanie Morgan permalink
    May 21, 2013 1:05 pm

    P.S. If you ever feel comfortable and wver eant to talk, I believe your experience might prove to be helpful. 🙂

    It wouldn’t be hard to reach me, if you ever wanted to, there is many ways you could. Facebook, or

    I could pass my number or email through this site privately.

  149. The Truth Hurts permalink
    May 21, 2013 2:19 pm


    I would not be adverse to talking to you, privately. I am sure the conversation would be illuminating for both of us. Frankly, we are not survivors but THRIVERS.

    To everyone who comes here that has broken free of this mess, you should all be proud, you have survived, and now you will THRIVE. Be patient, you will make it, and it may take a log time, especially recovering from the emotional and financial devastation, but you will THRIVE! You have already taken your first step just by coming to this Site for support!

    Now, for those that come to this Site, here are the risks people run by giving their names and exposing what is really going on. These people do have the power to ruin someone, and they undoubtedly will try, depending on the circumstances. I am all for standing up and telling the truth, but, I also understand desperate times can call for desperate measures. What do I mean..well, let’s think about it this way; like I said before WHY would I be such a threat, ONE person’s opinion. To me the answer is obvious! If the business was so stable, so passive income, build it once and you are done, then I would not have had the experience in my home at all. It would appear that since the business is built on an ever changing, constantly churning piece of sand, ONE person’s opinion, especially if that person is influential, can make a big difference. Wow, I just had a thought, I didn’t make money, I had very little fun, BUT I DID MAKE A DIFFERENCE! Yippee! Sorry, but I couldn’t resist that last part!

    I would hazard a guess that it is flat exhausting to keep the numbers up, because people are dropping out every minute of the day. Basically, you would have to train everyone under you, your big Leaders to recognize and be aware of the rate of attrition..this may be why drop outs are ostracized quickly, so they don’t take others with them. I wonder what this does to one psyche and form close “friendships”, then, when one sees the truth behind the smoke and mirrors, they begin to wake up from the love bomb induced fog and ask questions. Remember nothing will jolt you out of fog land like financial ruin, in most cases. This person you have grown close to will turn on you in a second if you pose a threat to the over all business. In a way, a top leaders financial stability is based upon how effective they can be at cutting the “questioners” off immediately. Amazing, just amazing.

    The above is based upon my experience and opinion.

  150. Freedomhaha permalink
    May 21, 2013 5:39 pm

    The Truth Hurts- Please keep posting on here.

    AMTHRAX- The post from TTH on May 18 at 8:09.

  151. Melanie Morgan permalink
    May 21, 2013 7:14 pm

    The Truth Hurts-

    Contact me if you wish, I couldn’t agree more.

  152. MinitureGiantSpaceHamster permalink
    May 22, 2013 6:38 pm

    I’ll consider myself fortunate I cannot empathize with many of you here since I left TEAM after only six weeks. This site did play a part but was not the sole reason. The initial high wore off, the reaction of a friend after the plan was shown to him, and reading the laws governing MLM’s all added to the decision.

  153. The Truth Hurts permalink
    May 23, 2013 11:53 am

    When I was threatened in my home I didn’t have a clue as to what this “Leader” was talking about. I was actually being accused at the time of something I did not do. I was also asked if I had told some people (he named them) that the business was not a good thing, that people were losing money. I said that yes, I had said that to the people he mentioned, and yes, lots of people were losing money. The response from this Leader was “a lot of people have made money in this business”, to which I replied that many more people had lost a lot of money, and been ruined. The conversation took a decided pause at that point.

    I was also told I was missed, and they loved me. Basically, this is an Adams Family type of thing they trot out, but I was not going to be fooled again.

    I was point blank told they would ruin me, make it very hard for me, and I would find life very painful, etc. I asked “are you threatening me?” To which he replied it was not a threat but a promise. I was infuriated that this disgusting person would dare to say this to me in my own home. Shame on you, big Bully!

    Now, I am very determined when I know I am right. I realize fully that the only thing I will depart this World with is my integrity, and that I will not besmirch. Some time ago on this blog I told Steadfast to meet Determined.. and I am Determined to make a difference.

  154. The Truth Hurts permalink
    May 23, 2013 7:00 pm


    I am not sure how to contact you privately.

  155. Melanie Morgan permalink
    May 23, 2013 10:32 pm

    The Truth Hurts-

    You could send a private email to Am th r a x (sorry my auto correct won’t allow me to connect some words ) and my information will be provided to you, or if you prefer you could send me a private Facebook message. Looking forward to being enlightened. 🙂

    Thanks for sharing.

  156. Melanie Morgan permalink
    May 23, 2013 10:40 pm

    Oops sorry, I thought there was an email provided at the top of this page tor Am th tax x.?

    If it is kosher with you, I could have Am th tax x send an email to you with my info. Which ever you prefer?

  157. Sandy permalink
    May 26, 2013 9:46 am

    If all these people have failed, then how have so many succeeded with this?

  158. Melanie Morgan permalink
    May 26, 2013 5:00 pm


    Define “failed“ for us on here,? You obviously havent read this site..and are a bit confused, check out the comp plan analysis, If you arent under the spell or cognitive dissonace then you ought to be able to cleary see you are sadly mistaken….

    “so many succeeded with this.“ That is where your first problem is….

    Here might be a quicker way..take a look at your own team! But I highly doubt you have much of one. So then ask to see your upline Round Table’s back office, should clear up your confusion.

    Another very simple common sense viee…..How many people have they convinced you is on the team? Then …figure out….How many Pc? Do the simple math on that one….

  159. Melanie Morgan permalink
    May 26, 2013 5:22 pm


    It would serve you in more ways than one, if you would go to all the “so many“ who are claiming to be “successful“ and ask to see their tax returns!

    You are going to want to pay close attention to the bottom line and then do the same and find out how many in their group below them are “sucessful“, then let us know if any one of them are even making more than they are on their jobs or could live off their Lief sucess!!

    How many are losing money, year after year after year? Then share your findings, good luck.

  160. May 28, 2013 9:57 am


    You have asked, “If all these people have failed, then how have so many succeeded with this?” …smoke and mirrors, my friend. Many, many have failed, and only a small handful have succeeded. Orrin and Company tell you that there are tons of successful couples on the Team, but they are not being truthful.

    Keep in mind that there is no way to prove any of the recognition at the Team events is real. How do you know people have actually hit the levels they say? All you have is their word. You will never be given proof of actual numbers because that proof would show you that the top 8 leaders are making all the money at the expense of everyone else. They may throw a pittance of a bone to the loyal minions, but only as a means of propagating the scam longer.

  161. Husbandislost permalink
    May 28, 2013 2:24 pm

    Not necessarily counting my chickens before they hatch but I’m thinking husband is on his way out! It’s been at least a month since he last attended a meeting & this month he gave them no $$!!! They gave him a few $ but nothing much! Keeping fingers crossed hrs seeing light!!!

  162. Melanie Morgan permalink
    May 28, 2013 8:11 pm



  163. Victoria permalink
    May 29, 2013 1:05 pm

    I have been approached by a dear friend to something she couldn’t talk about, my thought was Hmmmm. She asked me to trust her so I went to a gathering to listen to someone explain things to me. “Life”. I have scoured the internet about this “business” – Talk about multiple red flags!

    Then I found this site and pages. I am so grateful to the openess and honesty written here! I fear with the brainwashing my close friend is becoming so active that I will be shut out but I can’t abide by allowing others tell me what to think, do or say – ever!!!

    I do hope there is someone out there or many someones who can earnestly expose, shut down this robotic cult that appearss like a flower that can turn into a serpant in the blink of an eye. It is all so very sad.

    I have found this page so enlightening and confirming of my own thoughts without having gotten involved – Thank You SOO very much. Blessings to you all

  164. May 31, 2013 8:28 am

    @Victoria – glad you found the site and stories helpful. I hope your friend can see the light soon about this bad business opportunity.

  165. noteam permalink
    May 31, 2013 11:40 am

    Victoria – so glad you found out the truth before wasting tens of thousands of dollars. I would encourage you to print out some key pages on this site and give to your friend. Don’t be pushy. But very genuinely encourage them to read these pages and then do some more research on their own.

    I have found the pages regarding the Darkangelo & Huber bankruptcies, and the false IAB Guru designation to be very powerful in getting people to think about this scam.

    Wishing you the best.

  166. Husbandislost permalink
    June 18, 2013 8:52 am

    Well I knew not to hold my breath for too long! Husband renewed his credit card info after being away for a month. I had read a text on his phone recently to his buddy & he told buddy if you show me how to get customers I will sign back up. Buddy told him just be your own customer first then once I start a second team I will give you customers. Well as of this month he & buddy will no longer be seeing each other unless buddy is going to travel 3,000 miles to get together with him. I of course am to blame for husband not getting customers! He says he wasn’t able to attend enough meetings to get customers to make money! In 2 weeks he won’t be able to blame me for a year! We will see how it plays out from here I guess!

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