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Ex-TEAM Reader Q&A: Susan Lovelace TEAM/LIFE Statement

March 29, 2013

Susan Lovelace, an ex-TEAM/LIFE member, provides her story about being a part of TEAM/LIFE over three and a half years. Her time in TEAM coincides with TEAM’s involvement with Amway/Quixtar, MonaVie, and the current LIFE business.


Joining TEAM

Tell us a little bit about your situation prior to joining TEAM?

Prior to Team I was a stay at home mom and my husband was a full time Professional Building Designer. I ran the house and raised our children we had 7 the youngest a newborn. We were very involved in family and attending all event’s. I never missed a child’s birthday, school event, church program etc… I was an all in mother, I was always there for my children in any way that I could be, if it was possible I was there for them.

How were you approached to join TEAM?

My best friend asked me to come over and listen to some info. I was very skeptical and told my husband as I left the house to call me in a hour to tell me that the baby needed me, hahaha. We got in the Team/Quixtar in November 2006 left August 2009 due to a family medical emergency, my husband and son where in a fatal car accident (the other driver died) and my husband is still battling with the injuries. We were in MonaVie as well however after a year of everyone dropping out that we put in and our income dropping due to the economy dive in the housing area, we pulled back on our products and meetings. This was in 2008. Once that happens every leader acts like you are nonexistent just a chair warmer not doing their part in funding the future of our business. I reentered Team/Life March 2012 because it is exactly what we always wanted to do, help others, save marriages, get the info out there to make a difference. We left September 2012 after I found out by reading the Life policies that the business is not mine and at any time they want to they can take my business. Also I talked with a few former team leaders that I looked up to and ran the roads with and found out that the Policy council are not the men they say they are.

What attracted you to TEAM?

The Wal-Mart of the internet, to be debt free (my husband carried a huge debt into our marriage), to be able to have freedom and choices. To give my kids the best that we could give, not materialism but the best not the rusted hand me downs we had. If we are already spending the money why not spend it and make a profit. Plus who would not want to run the roads with their best friends?

At the time you joined, what MLM company was TEAM aligned with? For instance, what products were you trying to sell?

Quixtar- Sip twice eat and profit anyone remember this? DOT 1 Step lol

How much money was told she could/would make and in what time frame (or implied)?

2-5 years be debt free and making thousands a month. That is if you did what they recommended to you at any time you will have the results they had!

Did they entice you with what they were making?

They always were having you go to retirement parties, upline’s new houses, then their newer houses, and showing of the cars they drove, and the newer cars they drove etc.. All paid with cash mind you! The nice outfits, going out to dinner, having the “freedom” to do whatever you want with your money. The vacations and trips they went on, taking pictures and showing them off at Major Conventions. It was all a way to show you that you can earn freedom through your sacrifices now.

Was their promises of passive, residual, ongoing income promoted?

I show many plans and board plans, every open meeting and plan stated that the income you Will receive will be continuous, once you do the work ONCE you are paid on that work over and over forever! It was promised and promoted. That was the big thing for me with 7 kids at the time I did not have time to waste and it is a great thing to do it once and get paid on it FOREVER!!!

Working The Business

On a scale of 1-10, with 10 being the highest, how hard would you say you worked the system?

I worked the system at a 10! We went up in levels quickly, we were recognized monthly for doing everything right and following what was recommended. I won at every call session, I won every CD contest, I went to extra book study’s, I read my books, participated in book groups, I went to every extra meeting they had, I won mobile call session after the major’s. I worked the system so hard! We were in with the leaders, they all knew us by first name, they came to my home multiple times, I went to everything I could, I made sure I qualified for everything! I got pregnant with baby number 8 and the DAY we brought her home we had over 40 people in my house with Dan Hawkins on the board! We worked that system exactly how they said to. I invested every dollar we had extra or not. My husband bought the books, Cd’s , dvd’s brochures, pamphlets, flyers, and whatever he thought we needed. We had the tools and our trunk was full. My husband was Proud of that trunk! Even through my bed rest with the 8th my husband went to a major without me, my doctor said I could not go. Man that was hard I even tried to see if I could go in a wheel chair and he said NO way!! Once we went to two majors, I went to 1 in OH and my husband went to the 1 in MN because we had people that could not go the 1st week end so they went the 2nd weekend with my husband. I never missed anything and my husband went to what he could or wanted to.

Did you attend all the weekly meetings?

Yes everyone except 2 once for bedrest and once for my child’s high fever, the doctor told me not to leave the child. I would work hard every week to bring new people, drive extra hours to pick them up and bring them home, would hunt and haunt my prospects daily to get them just to one meeting.

Did you attend all the monthly seminars?

All of them, if you missed a seminar you better be at your own wedding or your own funeral is what was preached. Actually someone made my husband feel so uncomfortable for missing meetings he stopped going to them.

Did you attend all the quarterly Major Functions?

Yes except the one the doctor refused me to go to. I cried and cried!

Did you ever miss any meeting? If so, for what reason?

No you do not miss meeting even the ones that were family days if you did not go they made you feel like crap! An example were we camping this past June 2012, our 1st family vacation ever that I had planned and paid for before I resigned into the business. Our Team had won a chance to get around George Guzzardo. I had planned that we would get up early, pack up and head 2 hours away to see him. That was the plan however I could not afford the gas. I had met with George so many times we were on a 1st name basis. They wanted me to go for the rest of my Team. My Best friend, my upline Turbo 50 said to me is it the Gas or do you just not want to get up and pack up your kids. SERIOUSLY I had just put in over 30 people in the last 90 days and she questioned my loyalty. It was not a Seminar, it was not a meeting. The next seminar in July we had a family reunion and I left in the middle of it to go to the Seminar. I just snuck off so my family would not yell at me. Did not even say good bye because I did not want to hear the negativity from them.

With all this time spent in meetings, when did you go out and prospect people?

I, of course, was the good minion and brought my people with lol. Would meet at McDonald’s, or wherever. Over the summer my older kids got to spend their days babysitting for the entire summer. I had 24 hours a day to run the roads for this business. I did not have another job, had finished my college degree in 2009 so I was able to just be a free agent and go to every meeting and get together at anytime. I was the unusual one that could just go, however I took all that time from my children to watch and raise my children. Since baby #8 we had twins so they had their hands full with 10 kids in the house and I gone running the roads it was tough. I would make dinners in advance, clean and so laundry I was running ragged keeping the house, yelling at the kids all the time and my husband too!

What places did you go to do your prospecting?

EVERYWHERE! Every place there is an opportunity to talk to someone.

How much time did you spend working your business each week? Include time spent at meetings and prospecting.

Seminars were 14 hours once a month, Tuesdays were 6 hours every week, then showing my plans and my teams plans at least 30-40 hours a week.

Were you aware of websites or individuals critical to TEAM?

Yes but you can find negativity on everything on the internet everyone has critics even I have critics.

What was your opinion of the critics?

They did not follow the recommendations and or their leaders. They did not work the system and quit. Why else would they quit??

How did you become aware of websites or individuals critical to TEAM? Did they criticize the critics from stage at every seminar and or just behind the scenes?

My husband was their biggest critic before we got in the business and did tons of research and then continued researching them not to cut them down but to be armed with the info if it was brought up. After he left the business in 2008, I stayed in. When the housing market went down so did his design business. Our income was barely there and we could not afford everything. He stopped going to Seminars and they made him feel like crap so he quit. He knew he could not talk me out of the business but he did inform me of things he did figure out. He did limit the amount of money I could spend in the business.

The Leaders always talk about the critics even in code when they are being watched. On stage they would use an historical example like a battle; the victor of course being team and the loser the current enemy. Behind the scenes they let loose! They let out how they feel about the critics of course using the right wording to make them out to be the bad guys. An example about the Peters that a founder used at a meeting was if an employee (Peters) was picketing McDonalds (Team) saying their fries were bad and they were losing business, McDonalds would remove them from the business, sue them, fire them not keep employing them or paying them. That person was sharing their opinion and at the same time hurting their business. You get rid of people like that. You do not let them spread lies and hurt your business. They have their own agendas and it might not be the truth.

Did you shun people who didn’t join TEAM?

No I did not shun them but I also did not have time for them. I remember the quote also for those friends or people you knew before when they asked you or stated wow I have not heard from you in a long time the response “I finally have something to contact you about” is that not a horrible statement? Them just being alive and a friend was not enough?

Were the people you now hung out with just TEAM members?

Yes if you were not in team or coming to a meeting I did not have time for you. If my kids birthday was on a Wednesday, sorry we cannot celebrate it, a Seminar, forget it a Major well I just missed it entirely. They say you can’t always celebrate your birthday on the day it is ok, it is just a day you can do it the day before or another weekend. You will have the freedom to do whatever you want on their birthday after you have worked for it. The freedom to have choices.

What did you do outside of your TEAM business? For instance, sporting activities, date nights, volunteer work, etc.

NOTHING, really unless I was doing something with the immediate family, we even put a cap on what we could do for their birthdays as far as spending, they were always at home, and we only spent 50 bucks total on everything even gifts. Seriously I might have gone to 1 thing a year while in the business that was not about the business. We were told to visit our families when it was a holiday weekend, most people will not talk business on those weekends so you should spend it with your family.

Concerns About The Business

When you joined, did you know that the TEAM leadership made a substantial amount of money from the sale of tools (tapes, CD’s, marketing materials) and function tickets?

Yes I did my husband grilled them it took 3 meetings that last one they brought in a Platinum to answer his questions. He finally let me sign up so I would have something to do besides fight with him.

During your time, did TEAM join another MLM company or start selling other company’s products? If so, how was this change communicated? Did you have any problems or concerns regarding this transition?

Did you have any problems or concerns regarding this transition? We knew of the Quixtar split we had meetings and phone calls, we even had certain days to turn in our resignation. We then just were promoting the Leadership part of Team. Then 6 months later we were in MonaVie.We all had a start date for MonaVie, they put in clusters of people at a time. We stuck through that we hit levels quick and were Star 1000 in 90 days. After that we just hung there the market was full and our people could not afford the juice. We were always told this was a temporary stop, for a while we were told they would keep adding new components whatever was popular now it is juice next it will be sport drinks etc.. We were still going to be the Wal-Mart of the internet. I ran the roads as much as I could with 8 kids, which was never an excuse I was an example, if she can do this with 8 kids anyone can, no excuses are bigger than 8 kids and college full time. After my husband’s accident we quit, no one showed up we got a card form one, a call from another and our best friends came by once. I was later told that if I wanted them to come over I should have called them. REALLY 8 kids and a disabled husband yes I was always on the phone I had so much time!!

When did you start having doubts about the effectiveness of TEAM and the business opportunity?

The business could have never given me a real opportunity it was when their words did not line up with their actions. I know why they did not come over: we were not on auto ship, we were not on the system, we were broke before my husband’s accident, and after for over 18 months we and ZERO INCOME. Yes we ran the roads for 3 years and there was no passive residual business, Strange huh? Oh if you are not on auto ship you cannot make money no matter how much work you do, duh! Anyway when they did not show up after my husband was taken by a helicopter to a trauma center I realized that they are not what they say they are. They act like they care until you stop making them money.

Do you know your group’s attrition rate? Upline and downline groups.

Let’s see they ALL kept quitting or they would “borrow” my tools and never give them back, or they could not afford the system so again not making money. If they are not buying they are not making money so no motivation to keep going in MonaVie. I could keep them going in the Life business, I genuinely was sold on the Life business and I jacked up everyone around me. Like I said 30 new people in 90 days. We were cruising I was Power Player, a rock star, they said.

In the end though I could see that my upline’s team was not that big. Their taproot, the line they were in grew, the one I was placed in first in 2006. We had like 80 people under us only 10 of them showed up to meetings. Their 2nd team where they placed me in the 2nd time signing up in 2012 had only 14 to 20 others above us in 6 years that was it. (oh and that move was good for them as well, we should have had our original spot, a huge taproot and just started our 2nd team however placing us in their 2nd leg put all of our new people in their 2nd team growing it super fast, guess who hit a huge level right after they signed me up? Hint Not me lol If we would have just paid our fees we would have had those 30 people in our 2nd leg and hit huge levels ourselves) Then their 3rd team had about 10. They said it was because they kept giving all their personals to the taproot and their upline. It is possible but I am sure the leader would have told them to start their team, that is what I always was told to do, help get 10 in below you and then start your 2nd team after 25 in start your 3rd. Who knows I barely had 5 in my 2nd team what do I know. I do know we had the in the 1st time over 10 in our 2nd team and 30 in our taproot below us and almost every single person QUIT.

You had to replace 2 to 1 to make a profit.

How many were ‘on system’ (and got off) out of total numbers in group during your time in TEAM?

We hit Turbo 2 twice hahahah that means 2 people on system in each team. It was a roller coaster you had to count weekly to see where you stood as far as system counts.

What finally pushed you over the edge and made you quit TEAM?

We quit when no one showed up the first time when we needed them especially when our best friends did not have time for us. Then the final time was after I found this information out about former leaders. I refuse to abandon my family for years if my work is not mine.

Conservatively, how much money did you spend as part of TEAM?

The 1st 3 years over $30,000 that includes gas, food, hotels, system, products, babysitters, rental cars, and clothes. The 2nd time @ 500 a month and one month over $800 in tools, so about $4000.00 in six months and I quit at the beginning of September, so 5 months.

How much time did you ultimately spend on the business?

All of my time, every spare minute I could conjure up. We could say on average 12 hours a day 6 days a week for 3 years then for 5 months. We are adding in reading books and listening to Cd’s. That equals 12,852 hours used to build someone else’s dreams.

If you knew about the public records of some of the TEAM leadership — bankruptcies, strategic defaults, and foreclosures — would this have hasten your departure from TEAM?

Yes as soon as I found out I did make the decision to quit. I called a meeting of everyone that was active in my down line and told them I was quitting and why and gave them all the information I had since I was the one that got them involved in the scam.

My downline was outraged! They could not believe they were being led by these people. They all skipped that seminar and we hung out doing research talking to past members of the Team. They had all quit as of that night, however my upline had started to tell lies so they doubted the information that the read and heard. They were sucked back in by the slick way the leaders can talk to you. Re-word things like did you see these facts on paper? Did you talk to these people, how you know it is true? This is what Orrin told us, this is what we heard happened… We even had an emergency meeting that a founder came to, it was opened that this meeting was not to bash Raquel Peters it was to answer questions. He went on and on and even shut me down when I asked him if he verified his facts with the other side and asked if he even talked to Raquel or others he was mentioning. He said to me that if I was so unwilling to hear the information why did I come to the meeting.

They are really good at twisting the facts and making a person who is sharing information and documents I saw with my own eyes, truth and persuading a room full of people that they are just Peters takes or views of what happened. That she was just angry and taking out revenge. I felt so hopeless since I had just that morning had a meeting and read the documentation with my own eyes knowing the truth. I also spent hours on the phone with a past church mentor and was told so many truths it made me sick to have ever been a part of this business. Oh and he said regarding the foreclosures and bankruptcies that not everyone follows the recommendations of their mentors and ends up with consequences. I guess George Guzzardo and Chris Brady did not follow their mentor?? But they are on stages across the US talking to hundreds of people???

What did you do with all of the tools that you purchased?

I kept some of them good story cd’s from the leaders that were not corrupt and liars. I tried to get over $800.00 back right when I quit but my upline dragged that out and it was over the 45 day return policy, they are sitting in our office. The rest I boxed up and put on our uplines front porch. I just could not bear to keep them around me. We are selling books on EBay as well.

Looking Ahead

Given the choice to join TEAM again, would you do it?

No absolutely not. I missed birthdays and moments I will never ever get back. I missed 1st and lost time I can never have. I focused on helping so many others our marriage is still a mess. We are people and we have issues and when you are focused on others you cannot fix your own.

What lessons did you learn from your TEAM experience?

You can be taught to dance around the truth and mislead others. With your great intentions you can become a member of something that can destroy you and others and not even realize it. You can be told the truth, revealed information and still not see the reality of it. You can deny and walk around fooling yourself and others and personally watch others be destroyed and you will say they did not listen and make excuses for them failing and in the end the truth that you have been avoiding will smack you in the face. You need to research any business opportunity to the ends of the information highway. A bank will not invest in your business if you do not have a business plan, detailed information and references. A bank does not take your word they ask others and get information from all sources. You should act like the bank it is your money and time. Find out the truth before the lies catch up with you.

What advice would you give to people who have left TEAM?

Tell your story yell it from the roof tops. Save others and their families. Save the prospects that are being misled today. Put effort into spreading the truth. Spread your story on the internet, get the information out for others to find. Do not be afraid of the leaders be afraid of what could happen if you sit idle and tell no one the truth. Do you want loved ones or other friends to be sucked in and get screwed out of their time and money?

What advice would you give to current TEAM members?

Get the truth if there is information out there where do you think it came from? Why would the Team have to change their name and branding so many times if there was not an issue? What are they running from? Why are you not talking to your friends and family? Why are the Round Table and Policy Council members/ Founders filing for bankruptcy/foreclosure? May be repeating here but if you want to file for bankruptcy or lose your dream home then follow your leaders. I guess it is ok as long as you quit on paying your bills and keep your new houses, cars and recreational vehicles right? Is that what you are teaching others, rack up the debt and file only on those debts that helped you build your business and live in million dollar homes? What in the heck kind of financial information is that??? I guess what I am saying is find out the facts, just because the Founders did not author it does not mean it is not true. They say from stage over and over that they copy from books, it is proven read their books and compare it to the system books you will find the idea is the same just worded different. Nothing new is found in their books they are constantly quoting others. They are constantly researching and reading, WHY AREN”T YOU? What happened to The Dickies? Peters? Morgans? Raatz? Smith’s? All the leaders we followed and loved? Where did Chuck Geotchel (sp) go? The Freeze’s? Where are these people, why would they just leave the Team after telling their story and leading some many into the business? Stop for a day and research the Team, post what you find…..

Any last words?

Spend time with your people in your life it could end so quickly for them or you. You could be living your last day what are you going to do with it? Recruit others into Team or spend time with your loved ones?


Thank you to Susan for providing her testimony.

There are more Ex-TEAM member reader stories here. If you are a former member of TEAM/LIFE and want to share your experiences, consider filling out this questionnaire. Your story may help other people decide that the LIFE business opportunity is not the right one for them.

Finally, here are some more Ex-TEAM Q&A’s that you may be interested in reading.

62 Comments leave one →
  1. ageofwisdom51 permalink
    March 29, 2013 6:38 am

    Susan: bravo and thanks for being brave enough to come forward with your story as bluntly as you did!

  2. ageofwisdom51 permalink
    March 29, 2013 7:00 am

    Susan: I had to chuckle (sadly) when I read the reality of what happened to you vs. what OW’s latest inculcation, er, money-producing blather is on his current blog.

    OW partial quote from OW’s blog on “Leadership Soft Skill: Motivating and Engaging Others”, end of paragraph 2, into paragraph 3 and4 (to be fair: no context changed, i.e., it basically all reads on in this vein of thought):

    “In essence, when a person swims in great ideas, the world-view, mindset, and attitude soak into him…..Unfortunately, few people understand this. Most run from business to business, seeking the shortcut to success. When actually, success is a matter of immersion into the greatest thoughts and leaders one can find. Why I love the LIFE community is that it provides the association necessary to learn the great ideas from great leaders so that people can do great things. The testimonies of the changed lives in LIFE is amazing even though I have been witnessing this first hand for years. There is an old saying that expresses a candle must be lit before it can light another one. In the same way, a person must set himself on fire with great ideas and then light others on fire by his passion, belief, and vision.”

    Well, girl, in making a comparison of a successful member’s reality vs. the propaganda: I guess you were “on fire” and burned long enough, i.e., if you weren’t immersed in this community, following this “great leader’s” plan (which is surreptitiously filled with HIS hidden motives/worldview and over-stuffed wallet), then I don’t know who was. This thread alone should make any prospect run for the hills!

  3. MemoryLame permalink
    March 29, 2013 7:25 am

    Thank you for sharing, Susan. It seems like more and more people are coming forward now. I hope this trend continues.

    Age, your quote from Orrin Woodward is hilarious! I love how he seems to be criticizing people that jump from business to business. Isn’t that all he has done for 20+ years?!!

    Also, what the heck is he talking about seeing these LIFE principles change lives for years? LIFE hasn’t been around that long has it, new guy reading this? These kind of statements are awesome to me because they are meant for subtle SELF edification (which Orrin does a TON of), but in reality they simply plant the seeds of doubt, since they can’t ever seem to keep their story straight.

    Here, Orrin, let me help you get your facts right:

    https://amthrax.wordpress.com/2012/10/26/visual-timeline-of-team-history/

  4. Former Round Table permalink
    March 29, 2013 10:04 am

    Susan,

    Thank you so much for sharing your story! It will help many people, I am sure. I was especially moved by the fact that none of your “friends” in the business could be bothered to contact you when your husband had his accident. Ah yes, Team/Life has certainly mastered the 8 Fs, haven’t they? Do as I say, not as I do…

    I am still amazed at how many people have been told the truth and still choose to follow Orrin and company.

  5. Just Came To permalink
    March 29, 2013 11:01 am

    Thank you so much for sharing, Susan. I totally related to the part where you were being pressured to attend a meeting that wasn’t even a seminar or open.

    We had that happen to us about a year ago. There was going to be a picnic for our local team the day after the seminar. We attended the seminar Saturday, where we learned that this picnic was happening the next day. My response was that we might be able to come, but probably not because of my chronic health condition.

    The next day we were unable to go. I wasn’t surprised because I fatigue very easily. We were on the phone with our upline for at least a half hour listening to him pressuring us and trying to guilt us into coming. In retrospect, I wonder ‘why did we listen to all that bullying?’ We took it all in at the time because he was our mentor, who supposedly had our best interest in mind. Our mentor is a great person, I just think he’s completely brainwashed. He bullied us because that’s what he has been taught to do through the system. So much for teaching good people skills.

  6. Brent Hansen permalink
    March 29, 2013 11:29 am

    Thanks Susan, I admire your courage.

  7. MiniatureGiantSpaceHampster permalink
    March 29, 2013 11:34 am

    Thanks for sharing your story Susan!

    “Any last words?

    Spend time with your people in your life it could end so quickly for them or you. You could be living your last day what are you going to do with it? Recruit others into Team or spend time with your loved ones?”

    That is so very true, you never know what the next day will bring. Just last week my next door neighbour was killed in an accident when she was doing a daily morning routine (the details need not matter). You always hear such things on the news but when it’s that close to home it really grips you more.

    @Just Came To: There is no doubt me the people are brainwashed. I was only in six weeks and it had an effect on me. The night my brother showed me this website (and others) I didn’t get much sleep. I’m not exactly sure how to describe this. As I laying in bed there was this moment for a few seconds there was this flood of memories. It might have been a release, I can’t say. I know they had something to do with Team/LIFE. Perhaps the information I gathered from the CD’s or it was the two sides of the story having this great clash for a moment.

  8. Melanie Morgan permalink
    March 30, 2013 11:39 am

    Susan Lovelace~

    WOW…Thank you! You are an incredible women of strength and ambition, obviously “all-in” super hero with what you did with all your children and injured husband to take care of!

    One of the most damaging piece of the experience is the LOST TIME with our loved ones!

    You are incredible, I am so thankful and Thank God, you found your way out when you did…Not just for you, your marriage, but for all of your children!! God Bless you!

    Happy Easter to You All!

  9. Melanie Morgan permalink
    March 30, 2013 12:07 pm

    “My downline was outraged! They could not believe they were being led by these people. They all skipped that seminar and we hung out doing research talking to past members of the Team. They had all quit as of that night, however my upline had started to tell lies so they doubted the information that the read and heard. They were sucked back in by the slick way the leaders can talk to you. Re-word things like did you see these facts on paper? Did you talk to these people, how you know it is true? This is what Orrin told us, this is what we heard happened… We even had an emergency meeting that a founder came to, it was opened that this meeting was not to bash Raquel Peters it was to answer questions. He went on and on and even shut me down when I asked him if he verified his facts with the other side and asked if he even talked to Raquel or others he was mentioning. He said to me that if I was so unwilling to hear the information why did I come to the meeting.”

    ” it was opened that this meeting was not to bash Raquel Peters it was to answer questions.”

    Really?

    “They are really good at twisting the facts and making a person who is sharing information and documents I saw with my own eyes, truth and persuading a room full of people that they are just Peters takes or views of what happened. That she was just angry and taking out revenge.”

    They ask the question “Did you talk to these people?” WoW….Again, did any one of them do what they ask of others?

    The hypocrisy…. I have never witnessed more with anyone else in my life. Again… any moron should be able to clearly SEE the game, agenda and control of information they want get others to believe. What bulling…a room full of them…and one in “authority”…against one or 2 people. Susan they are like gangsters who try and outnumber others…cowards.

    Did anyone take their OWN advice and Call or “talk to these people”? or did the world and TRUTH stop at…what Simon says..I mean “Orrin, said?” Because he is now the dictator of all truth? Pfft!

    Thanks so much for sharing…shame on them!

  10. Melanie Morgan permalink
    March 30, 2013 12:13 pm

    They are too weak to face others by themselves or stand on their own against the truth or questions that they try and spin their way out of.

  11. Melanie Morgan permalink
    March 30, 2013 12:22 pm

    All telling…”this is what we heard happened!”

  12. Chris permalink
    March 30, 2013 2:46 pm

    Susan- Thanks for sharing…each story on here makes me feel even better that I made a good decision to quit team. The organization (team, life business) as my intuition served me well lacks transparency. People on (team) talk about freedom,that doesn’t sound like freedom to me, that doesn’t sound like my American dream! Happy Easter!

  13. Melanie Morgan permalink
    March 31, 2013 4:49 pm

    Chris~

    I am sorry if I missed this and you have stated it already but how long were you in? Did they tell you would or could be paid from Team and from LIFE?

  14. ageofwisdom51 permalink
    April 1, 2013 4:09 am

    @JustCameTo: hey, if this was last summer (when you said it happened to you), you weren’t by any chance at the big Milwaukee meeting, were you? It was right around this time that I heard my grown (almost middle-aged) child utter (paraphrased): “I was just at a meeting and didn’t really want to hit another one right away, but after [so-and-so] got done calling me, I guess if I’m serious about the business, I better get to it.” I was really surprised he agreed to go because at that moment, he had so many family obligations. It was just about 2 weeks later that the, um, crapola hit the fanola with family and I had found Amthrax in the interim.

  15. April 1, 2013 6:38 pm

    THANK YOU Susan for sharing your story! As I read your story, I remember the time we committed to the business as well. Wow, talk about some seriously wasted hours of our life. I am so much happier now!!!!!!!!! VERY few make it. WAY more put in more than they will ever get out financially. I encourage anyone reading this blog to please share your stories. The more word gets out, the more people that will be saved financially. If you are considering getting involved, PLEASE DO YOUR RESEARCH and the biggest piece of advice I can give is GO WITH YOUR GUT! God bless you and your family Susan.

  16. April 3, 2013 7:23 pm

    NOBODY seems to get this; NO CLIENTS, NO INCOME!!! MLM is the only industry that ignores getting those (what are they called again?), err, oh yeah, CLIENTS! Remember those? EVERY OTHER BUSINESS has them. If this and all other MLM companies would put a foundation of customers FIRST, people would actually MAKE money, not lose money. Oh, yeah, you need products that sell. That helps too. Just a thought.

  17. Melanie Morgan permalink
    April 4, 2013 5:25 am

    Dale Hansen~

    Thanks so much, how simple….Are you serious?! Hahaha..That’s all it is…Geez, I agree people just don’t “get it”…thank goodness you showed up!

  18. April 4, 2013 9:20 am

    Dale & Melanie,

    There are clients in MLM alright. MLMbots are clients to the MLM companies. That’s another thing MLMbots don’t get but doesn’t escape the lens of my ExAmbotCam.

    Here’s another angle:-
    if MLMbots can be terminated for whatever reason by their affiliated MLM outfit that equates an MLMbot’s affiliation to that MLM RICO outfit as a membership and nothing more.

    From another angle:-
    MLMbots are in possession of a number that establishes & provides for their relationship to that RICO outfit. MLMbots own nothing in this setup! Anyone say out loud “where art thou FHTM business owners?” See!

    Yet another angle:-
    only the MLM RICO outfit is in ahem, “business”…RICO “bizz”, mhhh… organized “business” nah… try organized RICO business…sorry folks I’m having some trouble with this…ah yesss! here it is – organized RICO crime outfit. Yep that’s it. Phew.

    Once again as I did before I state once more that this MLM RICO setup is more dangerous for the peons that are it’s adherents than French kissing a rattle snake-the latter doesn’t waste it’s time, yours or your money killing ya, but just a few hours, right?

  19. April 4, 2013 9:34 am

    I ask/challenge anyone MLM participant to prove that they own a business in their current arrangement with their MLM company. Anyone please?

    (There, surely your irresistibly sumptuous reason to hush me ExAmbot, from these boards, yes?)

  20. April 4, 2013 9:34 am

    In the meantime no sooner than one of granpy’s shared wisdoms crossed my mind-that just because you travel a well marked trail, don’t mean whomever made it knew where they was going-than for a moment I remembered all those Fortune High Tech Marketing (FHTM) self-deluded “business owners” (or is it reps, as in mere commissioned sales reps?) and wondered if today, they can sustain their erstwhile vehemence to prove that they are STILL, owners of businesses in the context of their relationship with their former, unbeknownst to them, RICO outfit? Surely MLMbots jest (or I do if you MLMbot, can prove you’re right.) So far reality (insert FHTM’s) resoundingly proves the former case!

  21. Melanie Morgan permalink
    April 4, 2013 9:49 am

    Exambot~

    Always love your imput.. That sounds like a lot of RICO business goin on… LOL

    FHTM, Burnlounge, IAB,…. Herbalife (According to Bill Ackman)….Umm… Yes….(just insert any and all name(s) of MLM that I may have forgotten)….:D

  22. MiniatureGiantSpaceHampster permalink
    April 4, 2013 11:38 am

    Quick question, how often does the owner of a business work on commission? Maybe in real estate and auto sales, though I’m not all that knowledgeable on the subject. Anyways, an article I found with a quick search discussing some issues with commission based sales.

    http://www.varjan.com/articles/sales-commission-problems.shtml

  23. April 4, 2013 4:11 pm

    Melanie,
    Thanks for sarcasm. I wasn’t trying to be a smart alec. The business model is broken because it takes people’s money over time, sneaky and insidious. I personally refuse to participate in a ‘business’ that has virtually zero clients as a revenue source. Its the equivalent of interviewing for a job at GM, and the mananger tells you “99% of the people who buy the cars we make work here. And also you have to pay to work here. But if you work hard enough long enough you may actually break even some day.” Thats EXACTLY how MLM works. A client focus solves alot of problems, especially economically.

  24. Melanie Morgan permalink
    April 4, 2013 6:57 pm

    Dale~ My apologies, I did read your comments that way and thought you were being sarcastic.

    I don’t agree that the lack of client focus is important, because it is a SALES co. and that should be a given and is what all other legitimate “sales” company do or they wouldn’t be in business!Not to mention it is the defining legality of MLM by the FTC guidelines and law…

    It blows my mind that having “customers” even has to be addressed, in a “sales” company! But we all know it does because, they want to police and protect themselves . Their prices are not even competitive so they don’t want to have to be held to an open market place where they would certainly fail.

    We all know the majority are internal consumption. So it seems rather distracting from the real issues that need to be addressed, the more major problems like the lack of disclosure =deception that they want again to not have to be held and slide under the rug… deny, divert and distract is their M.O..

    Seems the attorneys all want to split hairs and argue about what “percentage” defines “legal” so they can protect the internal consumption because the industry would collapse if they actually were held them to having real customers or operated as a real sales company. They are always trying to control the FTC, to protect themselves, which again shouldn’t have to be an issue.

    How long in any legitimate sales company would they last without “outside sales?!”

    I believe the biggest and most damaging issues,that they continue to get away with are the ones that they obviously do not want to change and are more important to the consumer because most have no clue they withhold information.

    They obviously… left to their own policing….will never change, without being forced to.

    So IMHO their biggest problems, are not the “clients’.

  25. Melanie Morgan permalink
    April 4, 2013 7:17 pm

    Sorry, I meant I do agree it is important, just not going to solve a lot of the other major issues that we did and am sure hundreds of thousands if not millions have experienced.

  26. April 4, 2013 7:30 pm

    The old MLM models are a fossil, and are being replaced by many legit direct sales companies that are actually paying people who sell, and don’t take money from them in the process. The free market is a beautiful thing. MLM will continue to take a beating because of its flawed approach to people and money. Its not just TEAM. A flawed model causes all kinds of problems that normally don’t exist in other direct sales models. Like people saying whatever they have to to bring em in and keep them. When products, prices and (lack of) income can’t stand on their own, unfortunately people get desperate and say anything to make it work. The entire industry has a lousy reputation in the business world for all of the reasons discussed. They do however get credit for exposing the masses to good material like the books, Kiyosaki etc. The federally controlled schools don’t educate people to become anything but compliant little sheep to get a job, pay your taxes, shut up and sit down, do what your told. At least MLM makes an attempt to get people out of the mold, albeit a flawed attempt. Hope this helps someone.

  27. Melanie Morgan permalink
    April 4, 2013 9:09 pm

    Dale Hansen~

    Robert Kiyosaki’s book got it’s popularity and start, because of Amway. I was there. I also believe he writes to appease the industry because it sells his books.Once it got it’s start there it and has continued his ‘success’ because of the industry, imo. He isn’t as respected as you might think.

    http://www.lazymanandmoney.com/robert-kiyosaki-and-multi-level-marketing-exposed/

    Could you name the many companies that you believe are legit direct selling, today?

  28. Adam permalink
    April 4, 2013 9:14 pm

    I went to a Life meeting tonight with a friend at first i was interested but susan after reading your account i will return the material when i meet with the team person and politely say its not for me thanks for saving me a bunch of time and headache

  29. ageofwisdom51 permalink
    April 5, 2013 2:06 am

    @Dale Hansen: you said: “The federally controlled schools don’t educate people to become anything but compliant little sheep to get a job, pay your taxes, shut up and sit down, do what your told. At least MLM makes an attempt to get people out of the mold, albeit a flawed attempt.”

    This statement is rather silly and sophomoric regarding “federally-controlled schools”, etc. You must still be affected by the cult teachings. ALL societies and governments have their norms/requirements/rules/laws. And if public education got spruced up, then the “capitalists” would have a COW because their local, state and fed taxes would go up! I don’t know where you live, but our school is subsidized by my municipal property property tax, not so much the feds. And, for example, UWM in Wisconsin lost huge amounts of subsidies from the Feds….wanna make a donation to them so they can teach what you want to make savvy MLMrs?

    IT IS NOT A SIN TO TRAIN PEOPLE TO MAKE MODEST TO LUCRATIVE LIVINGS. Many cultures cannot or do not do this.

    That these right-wingnuts in MLMs honed in on public education (often misinterpreted by the cultists to mean ALL education) as if it’s to blame. Really? You gonna teach them about unfettered Capitalism and borderline illegal Wall Street speculation that landed us in this current mess to begin with instead of readin’ writin’ and ‘rithmetic first?

    This sounds exactly like OW’s barnyard fodder he spews and which his “educated” nutbags spew out willy nilly without thinking. Yeah, I was the victim of this claptrap: Top Jesuit scholar and valedictorian and my kid, after listening to LIFE/Team juvenile, ignorant and sometimes just plain stupid crap calls me, tries to get me to join the hidden dual-pyramid scheme, and tells me things like: I had a “mediocre education” and have “no vision”, etc.

  30. ageofwisdom51 permalink
    April 5, 2013 2:49 am

    And might I add: “the mediocre-educated”, “visionless, JOBr sheep” parents are AGAIN helping to bail out the adult child after the happy escape from OWs scam, with the adult child waking up from wasting even MORE precious money instead of having a REAL job to make money. Yeah, our “mediocre educations” sure were deficient, eh? We, the little hated JOBrs may not be the robber-barons of old like Carnegie, Rockefeller or Morgan (ALL were Capitalist cut-throats–yes, even Carnegie who had Henry Frick–ranked the worst CEO in US history– do his murderous dirty work for a time until even HE couldn’t stomach it anymore) who expanded this country out of pure greed–not out of love of humanity and not to promote civilization.

    It isn’t about formal education. It IS about what the individual makes of it and what actions/emotional choices people make in life.

    Sheep training? PALEASE!! I’ve never seen more disgusting shepherding or sheep-corraling/subduing than in tactics used to suck people into LIFE/Team/Training.

  31. ageofwisdom51 permalink
    April 5, 2013 4:05 am

    About sub-standard public education, the hated JOBrs and similar claptrap from OW and Ollie D: a true story.

    Rural male born prematurely on a farm in 1910–so small his first bed was a cigar box. One of 10 poor children. Premature birth resulted in marginal academic ability and autistic tendancies. Could not make it through third grade. Worked every day of his life doing hard farming, from childhood onward. Had dreams of someday fixing beloved new automobiles he’d become enamored of, and working on a pipeline between MN and IA. Became quite industrious and inventive with scrap from the local village dump.

    Over 80 years later, this man was written about in a published book by Professor John Boatman of the University of Wisconsin. It mentioned how he would make toys out of scrap for other poor children, among other things. As this man grew up, he followed his pipeline-worker’s and auto repair dreams and graduated to spending 34 years at A.O. Smith Corporation in Milwaukee as a welder and lead man. By this time, he’d learned how to build houses, fix just about anything mechanical, and even work complex math problems in building his own boat, etc. He was so loyal and proud of his progress that in 34 years, he only missed 3 days of work (his mother’s funeral, the Milwaukee race riots and severe pneumonia). He’d married and adopted 2 children, putting them into the new modest home he’d built, making sure his children got educated, were well-fed, had decent clothing, helped them to buy their first cars, etc.

    Education? This is the TRUE education of real life!

    I type this from the modest solid home this man built and from the bedroom he slept in until his death at age 95 in 2005. He was my father.

    THIS was the best education I ever got, and it was instilled by someone who was industrious enough to survive The Great Depression as a 19-25 yr old man and provide a life to his children much better than he or his parents had.

  32. MiniatureGiantSpaceHampster permalink
    April 5, 2013 7:22 am

    @Melanie “http://www.lazymanandmoney.com/robert-kiyosaki-and-multi-level-marketing-exposed/”

    I all ready knew LIFE felt more like and “E-ish” type business than anything else. What I didn’t realize before is I never knew what “B-type” business stood for. Big business, go figure.

  33. Melanie Morgan permalink
    April 5, 2013 7:39 am

    Wisdom~

    Very inspiring and Thanks for sharing that true story about your dad! Dale is “repeating” the same line of BS they all do and you pegged it!I have come to ignore that.

    But they fail to mention it is those “educations” and “jobs” that keep the scams running!! Other thing it isn’t an “education,” will not get you a job or degree that is recognized and cost way more than a college degree. The “superior education that the MLM’rs think they are training you in, is parroting, deceiving and become a con.

    It is to keep you controlled and believing and creeate the us vs them world, so it is not the information so much as it is how they “control it” (they pick what you read only to serve their agenda) and that to me is worse, THEY control the information and the mind while they pick the pockets, of the masses, period.

  34. ageofwisdom51 permalink
    April 5, 2013 8:21 am

    Melanie: yeah, I know you’re right…I thought of it, but I just lost my blog-temper this morning. Must be a grump when I first log on. I knew it was all meant to just rile us up. Guess I took the bait 🙂
    Oh, and thanks for your comment about my Dad…true story, too, every last word of it. I went from thinking he was a dope when I was a teenager into realizing I could never fill his shoes–the ol’ Mark Twain adage.

  35. Chris permalink
    April 5, 2013 8:30 am

    I agree with Dale on the fact that college and the education system are flawed. These days you here more and more young adults getting out of college not finding jobs and having a lot of debt. It also does seem in business it’s more about fitting in the mold, than being innovative. Let’s be realistic, America is in trouble economically and educationally. I believe team has this part right on education.To be independents thinkers to be innovative and they teach long term thinking.. Unfortunately the people in team are just following team and are told this, they are following and do not own a business, the top leaders own the business, they are the ones in charge.and make the decisions. Team says that it’s different from corporate America, but really in my opinion, business wise its an illusion. Most people create more debt, think their in a cause, when all al long their missing out on their own calling in life when on team.

  36. Melanie Morgan permalink
    April 5, 2013 10:23 am

    MGSH~

    Yes is without a doubt an “E” business, and a really taxing one at that, (worse than a JOB because you have to “pay” and continue to pay to have it!) one only needs to read their Policies and Procedures.

    Here is the travesty, they get others to believe it is a “B-business”…and that is simply misleading & deception at it’s finest.

  37. Melanie Morgan permalink
    April 5, 2013 10:46 am

    Chris~

    I don’t claim to have all the answers, as a matter of fact that is NOT my fight, nor do I believe that is my purpose in life. But there are many studies done that show clearly some very contrasting differences between educated and uneducated. But I agree, no doubt the “education” system needs and can be bettered. (Isn’t this also what the team teaches?)

    I believe there is some very great teachers with vision and others who are fighting for those changes. I have personally witnessed some really amazing teachers and could go into the changes I have seen them make including the difference in children s’ lives, but it would take a long post. I also have a friend that was in Team (no-longer there of course) and has or almost has her PHD in higher learning. I have listened to her vision and she has shared some of her goals. I do know that she wants to make some great changes and she will bring some very great things to the educational world.She is amazing, highly intelligent but more importantly she genuinely cares…and btw~ She IS doing something about it!

    Here is where the hypocrisy, I believe comes in on the Team side of their doctrine of beliefs on “education”. It isn’t because they want to CHANGE anything to better it, that argument is self-serving as all are!

    If they were REALLY concerned, then why not take their own advice, and do what my friend is doing? Get withing the “educational system” and MAKE those changes?! Hmm….perhaps because at the core of their rhetoric they really don’t care if it changes or gets better, they have a scam to run that makes them millions on their “superior education” they believe they provide!

    Why then do they want their children to go to college and Why then do they “use” their very own “educational” degree’s for reputation and credibility?

  38. Melanie Morgan permalink
    April 5, 2013 10:49 am

    What they “teach” and what they do and even believe themselves is quite conflicting from what I have experienced.

  39. Melanie Morgan permalink
    April 5, 2013 10:51 am

    Oh and Chris they are far from wanting anyone to be “independent” thinkers or otherwise!!

  40. Melanie Morgan permalink
    April 5, 2013 10:58 am

    You nailed it Chris…it is an “illusion!”

  41. Melanie Morgan permalink
    April 5, 2013 11:02 am

    Adam~

    Thank you for sharing, and welcome to the site! I hope, but be prepared, chances are they won’t be as polite as you when they receive your rejection!

  42. MiniatureGiantSpaceHampster permalink
    April 5, 2013 11:08 am

    I don’t want to speculate too much here but from what I recall the top TEAMsters home school their children. If my guess is correct these children will soon be entering the rebellious stage of their lives. It’s almost, if not, universal that children will go behind the backs of their parents in some form. I’m unable to see a teenager not checking out this “negative internet” and the like their parents keep talking about. Just a thought though, I don’t want to delve too deep in speculation over their family lives. The children deserve better than that.

  43. Melanie Morgan permalink
    April 5, 2013 11:09 am

    Wisdom~

    I did not take you as a grump, lol….I love reading and learn a lot from your posts, thanks! 🙂

  44. Melanie Morgan permalink
    April 5, 2013 11:13 am

    Chris~

    One last thought, and at least for me is the most important teaching..Who I believe was the greatest teacher ever, Jesus…. What did he teach? Does the team follow that?

  45. MiniatureGiantSpaceHampster permalink
    April 5, 2013 11:28 am

    @ Melanie: It really is an E and S type hybrid as the lazyman article says. You have to put in the long hours a successful self-employed person yet get paid more along the lines of an employee.

    Speaking of LT/Life “control”. I’ll use the saying “Don’t keep all your eggs in one basket”. The higher in LIFE you get the more your job, social life, and spending get consolidated to one place. Personally I’d much rather spread things out. One section of time and money is spent with my family. Another is with my coworkers. Then there’s friends outside of. To cap it off there are random people you have yet to meet. A person needs some sort of variety in their life, otherwise it’s too easy to go insane.

  46. Melanie Morgan permalink
    April 5, 2013 2:15 pm

    Great advice~ “Don’t keep all your eggs in one basket”….

    The team teaches (to the masses while they behind the scenes like to keep it secret..they own other businesses they never speak of; to those masses)…WHY?…Because they don’t want the masses leaving or focusing on anything but them, they want them right where they have them!….They teach….To keep all your eggs in one basket and then protect the (team) basket!!!

    Lesson learned the hard way….Big, Big, Big mistake!

  47. Melanie Morgan permalink
    April 5, 2013 2:16 pm

    Funny it is another double and mixed messages, because some of the books teach multiple income streams and the PC will even say that too!

  48. ageofwisdom51 permalink
    April 5, 2013 4:24 pm

    @Chris: no one said our educational systems weren’t flawed. It’s the hidden message I resent coming from LIFE engineering boy who believes he’s got the megalomaniacal power if only, alas, he could go back and change everything from Ancient Greece and the Roman Empire onward (yes, I’ve very carefully read his blogs, watched the videos, etc). THAT is what I am talking about, especially after I read other of his works regarding social programs and his demeaning verbage.

    ARE YOU GONNA SIT THERE AND TELL ME THAT THEY DON’T CALL PEOPLE WITH JOBS “LOSERS” AND “VISIONLESS” AND “SHEEP”? He’s laughin’ at his OWN convinced sheep all the way to the bank down in St. Lucie. He wants unfettered Capitalism but does NOT want social programs/funding. He’s said as much/revealed as much in his blogs in presentations. He’s a real dichotomy, that boy.

    As for kids getting out of college and finding jobs, well, you can’t just blame the education system for this–we’re ALL to blame for what happened to see a sinking in our rankings and must add factors like: the economy and the end of industrialism..yada yada yada. Except for info technology, kids are getting out of HS these days with less skills than my gen went into with for sophomore years of HS.

    On the other hand, there ARE those that chose the right field and are making a killing. Example: Young 2012 UWM graduate in systems info/programming tech is now making 25 grand per annum more than my husband who’s got over 30 yrs in engineering. It’s a crap shoot.

    And for example, do you think cutting millions of dollars in grants to the University of WI by the WI right wingnut Governor we have now is enhancing education? Another example: If you have someone who has a calling to become and wants to go to school to become a social worker, are they going to get jobs in a state where social programs are getting slashed to the bone? There’s a relationship here, too. The funny thing is: it’s the subprime lending, the encouragement to become a credit card debt society, and the ponzi schemes of Wall Street, etc., that put us into this mess!

    Instead of making grants to the brilliant with potential, we were ALL to blame for the American Greed of the post WWII era, which grew into this: everyone needs granite countertops and stainless appliances, tossing out perfectly good items, as if we all deserve it. Earlier example: When I started in nursing, I earned $8.50/hr. The auto workers were bitching about having to put up with $22.50/hr….I heard it on the radio driving in for my first day of work with my new nursing license in early 1983. We Americans have always had problems prioritizing what is necessary for long-term stability, and now we cope with far more global markets as well.

    Yes, a certain degree of “conformity” in education is required when you attend college unless you’re going to a “think tank”. But what do you mean by “conformity”? Shucks, I was in a Jesuit institution and never once were we chastised for being free-thinkers with potentially innovative ideas—gotta tell you though, even though I was only 27-31 yrs old myself, it seemed like a lot of the education was wasted on many 18-22 yr olds out gettin’ drunk every night. Oh, not all of them, but you get my drift.

    Yeah, the education system is flawed……but take off the OW blinders and see the hypocrisy coming out between the lines, from the head crapper on downward. You (him) don’t complain about the entire development of Western Civilization in one breath and then call some assistance-receiving mother a “lazy taker” in the next breath. He has his own brand of American Greed. That woman’s child may be the next Einstein. Civilizations are just that: civilized and there are norms of supporting the helpless and infirm as a cohesive, societal group. OW and company want a return to Carnegie and Rockefeller and idolize them like Pagan gods. Like good Capitalists, they’ll suck you dry and toss you aside when you’re spent…..are THESE the people you want to see change education? I sure as hell don’t. It would be a skewed Gestapo inculcation.

  49. ageofwisdom51 permalink
    April 5, 2013 4:43 pm

    @Chris: PS: just for reference as to where some of my philosophy comes from: am an ex-instructor of a Wisconsin University….when I started teaching, I was appalled at how many language and writing skills were missing in my junior in college level students. This was the mid-1980’s. I stopped teaching because I was beating my head against the wall at caring too much, teaching life/death assessment skills to these students and teaching them in the actual clinical areas as well….and here’s the kicker: me only making 5 grand gross per semester (they thought they could entice me by giving me a Professor title while I was still in grad school myself, but…)……..tongue-in-cheek, I went back to critical care higher wages, thinking I should have been an auto worker instead and skipped the 25 grand I owed in student loans (today, that same education would be 5 times that in cost). So each age has it’s “oh, poor me” woes. In the good ol’ days of unionized but slowly waning industrialism, sometimes it really didn’t pay to go to college unless it was for the highest paying professions, especially if you were just in it for the money.

  50. Melanie Morgan permalink
    April 5, 2013 5:01 pm

    Chris~

    I hope you don’t take my comments as I was ripping on you, that was not my intention. I just know they say a lot of things that sound really good, and are half truths or speak a lot about Biblical and Leadership Principles and even claim they are principled men….but there is many of us who have seen that to not be true. We have witnessed what they did and it isn’t even close to the teaching they claimed they practice.

  51. ageofwisdom51 permalink
    April 5, 2013 6:55 pm

    @Chris: and let me re-explain, too, because actually, we don’t need to spar about education or OW etal’s hidden agenda(s). The fact is this: we have too many similar stories such as Susan Lovelace’s pitched in opposition to what the head honchos cook up and spout off as pseudo-historians, pseudo-economists, and their blogs of even just last year recounting such things as military tactics of infiltration and subduing of masses, etc., all from their towers on high.

    There are certainly things wrong in our country–by witness alone that they get by soaking the innocent inductees to the point of divorce and bankruptcy and destruction of family, and the true hypocrisy is this, (and it’s all couched in skewed ideas of Christianity, simply put: their 8F’s are all cloaked in a basic, hidden idea: your god wants you to be rich, you deserve it if you only try hard enough and do exactly as we tell you to, etc.), BUT there is a finite number of people out there who will get into this business, and and at that, only a fraction will stay.

    It’s geared toward failure (collapse) even IF people decide to overlook what the government says about these types of schemes, or what people’s stories like Susan Lovelace’s are, or worst of all: the actual balance sheet of assets/liabilites of running such a “biz,” etc., and here’s the rest of the reprehensible punchline:

    OW etal KNEW this from the getgo with the iteration they now have of this scheme. In other words, there’s no typical, renewable, consumable product anymore–now there’s dreams of riches couched in spewing supposed leadership qualities.

    They claim they are building “leadership”……..of what? Setting parent against child? Overspending? Bankruptcies? Foreclosures? Utter disappointment leading to PTSD in some? Dissing of old friends? C’mon, it’s all happened to numerous people. He is out to make money–millions upon millions–and he could care LESS about your relationship with your Christian God, your marriage, your fun, your financies, etc.

    Please, someone tell me HOW this relates positively to the God of the Christian Bible (or Pagan Gods, for that matter) and all of OWs blather about the sad state of education, the errors of human history, American history and the hated development of the Fed Reserve system and the Progressive movement, the hated “entitlement” socio-economics, and all of the other topics he’s touched upon, other than: yeah, baby, there’s a sucker born every minute as he sits at his computer trying to think up a new blog for the week or month.

    This man has created and basks in ALL which he claims to abhor, while cloaked in his good ol’ boy next door down home mannerisms and Baptist old-time religion. Do any of us REALLY think he’s got the answers to the educations woes in this country? If he does, and he’s so altruistic and dang-nabbity religious, then, um, why ain’t he more main-stream popular and making a huge concerted financial effort to FIX it?

    Stories like Susan Lovelace’s actually say it all. Because there are two Wizard’s of MLM Oz behind million dollar curtains of greed.

  52. Chris permalink
    April 6, 2013 1:19 pm

    10 reasons I quit (Team-Life)
    How I see it from my point of view

    1. You own your own business
    – actually your in a system or as (forbes) calls it a pyramid within a pyramid, You are following Orrin Woodward and the PC, They call the shots and make the majority of the money.

    2. Show me the money!
    – didn’t work the business like others, but after a year and a half didn’t make any profit. It’s sad to know many people after years of being in Team don’t make a profit for whom I have associated with on team,. You will spend money on the monthly products, weekly meetings, monthly seminars, and the Majors. After a while this adds up! So much for a long term investment!

    3. Team has integrity
    – I discovered after questioning some things on team, leaving out the truth is not being truthful

    4. Team life- going to a million!
    – After team members were left in the dark with leaving Monavie, We are stuck with LIFE. Team stated with Monavie, said in a cd by George Guzzardo ( The Grand Opening) (Team 603), when in Monavie, ” we’re going to a million, we’ve got a product ” !!!!!,” the third C”. ( not in exact words), referring to the product Monavie. The departure from Monavie to LIFE for me was very confusing and the Team reasoning was not done in a good informative manner in my opinion. I thought I was going to a million with Monavie? What about Dells 3 C’s? Now I’m selling the idea that sold Monavie ( motivational cds, and books), Now the motivational cds and books are the product? LIFE, Huh?

    5. Team is who they say they are
    – So many things Team seemed to be hiding – there association with Amway, Quixstar, and now Monavie.. They say they ( The PC) are Christians, which I can’t judge, but as they say ” actions speak louder then words ” . The actions of hiding the truth, withholding information are just some of those actions.

    6.Credible leadership
    – Stated on their Team-life booklet is very misleading. Maybe this has changed? Look up the top leaders online and you won’t find Orrin or Chris Brady on these sites. Either they are taken down or in error. If they have this top leadership status…show me…credible by whom?

    7. You will improve your life
    – It’s funny, but true! I have improved my life by getting out of Life! On a serious note, I did learn some things from the books and cds. I also learned to question things more before I get involved in a business such as this. The product of Life got old in about a year, I kept hearing the same things over and over again in the books, cds, and seminars. It did help me improve somewhat, but whose to say without spending all the money on team, I could have saved money and used it for good and improve myself for much less money. Truth!: You can improve your life, without team and life products.

    8. Life – Living Intentionally For Excellence
    Lying Intentionally for excess – just my opinion, but sometimes this is what I felt. Excessive spending on team – hundreds for cds, gas for trips, and excessive team tools and meetings.

    9. Positive Association
    don’t criticize as the team says…yet they criticize the critics all the time. There is a a time for honest criticism, in my opinion, Team either avoids the critics or they try to discredit the critics. Most people on this site are real people who have been on team at one point. Some at high leadership positions on Team. Hear their stories out, they have been there.

    10. Mental Fitness Challenge
    Challenges you to fit in with the team bots. Take it and you will become like us!(Team).
    These are my opinions and experiences with Team.

  53. Brent Hansen permalink
    April 6, 2013 4:46 pm

    @Dale, great points, you are spot on. I know a few independent Avon sales reps who have done well for many years selling Avon products. Matter of fact, there is an elderly (70 years old plus) lady in my hometown who has been selling Avon for around 30 + years, and has made an honest living selling to her regular clients.

    In the U.S., true “Direct Sales” companies are not as as prevelant as selling product door to door would be considered “beneath” most Americans. In foreign countries however, there are many, many, sells reps who work for honest companies, selling honest products, at honest prices. I am friends with an Asian distributor for an Asian company who has 2,500 college kids employed as sales people in his direct sales company. (The country has 40% unemployment, so he is doing a great thing) They are not reps, but his commissioned employees. He provides them with products, and a motorcycle, and they pay their way through college selling products for him.

    Myopicy can sometimes be dangerous.

  54. Freedomhaha permalink
    April 6, 2013 9:06 pm

    Chris- Thanks for sharing. God bless.

  55. Melanie Morgan permalink
    April 7, 2013 9:55 am

    Chris~

    Thanks for having the guts to share, I am sure when others read this, they will see themselves in your experience. I think you had some great points and you seem like you have actually thought about your experience, rather than just brushed it off as “oh well, just a thing”and walked away as hundreds of thousands who have LOST money and much more, because that what they want others to do!….”just fade away”

    So, I appreciate you taking your time. It would be great if you had your story up like the others.

    Can you share more of your experience with the MFC and what their rehearsed “handling objections were or what they would say about the ccritics?

  56. April 7, 2013 1:59 pm

    Chris – I’ll echo Melanie’s suggested to share more about your experience. Filling out the Ex-TEAM Q&A would be a good start.

  57. Chris permalink
    April 7, 2013 7:49 pm

    The main reasons I post on here is because I believe a lot of people on team aren’t succeeded on team and are hoping “someday” that they will. People need to look at their business realistically and make an informed decision. The Team business in my experience hasn’t been what I hoped it would be. I met a lot of good people on team, but it seemed they’ve been transfixed in the system of team. They listen to one more cd and think “this is it” and thinking they need to.listen to one more cd to get them over to.the next level or to the next seminar or the next major. The team creates an atmosphere that makes you feel you need to do.all of these things to succeed. The reality in my opinion is most are not succeeding in the business aspect, so maybe people stay in team because of the.great information they’re getting? The problem is the information is already out there, you just have.to look for it, and it’s a lot cheaper. Hopefully a curious team member or a new recruit will stumble on this site. Read the stories on here.. See the whole picture, get off your team fix and break free! There is more to life than team.

  58. Former Round Table permalink
    April 8, 2013 5:49 am

    Chris, you are pretty accurate in your assesment of Team. The Team/Life system is designed to make you feel like success is just around the corner…one more CD, one more meeting and I will “get it” and people will flood into “my” business and I will never have to worry about money again. It is also designed to make you believe that your lack of success is your own fault and not the fault of the system.

    As far as Team/Life in my own personal life? Good riddance!

  59. Chris permalink
    April 13, 2013 7:59 am

    So I saw Life training has a new top 50 pack. Any thoughts…Ha I never bought a top 50, because they’ll always make a new one and than of course if your a leader on team you’ll have to buy it. Rebrand and resell the same information over and over, just in different format. As a Christian the only life training is from the one who created it. The Bible would be a good place to start.

  60. Melanie Morgan permalink
    April 13, 2013 9:31 am

    Chris~

    Yep, you are right…A “new” top 50..haha… uh huh, right. Only the person who got in the day before they called it “new” would believe that.

    They would replace a CD or 2 or 3, (with an ALREADY in their system, that everyone ALREADY got on CD of the week, leaders who would have already had numerous copies of) CD’s , then call it “new”….EVERY year!

    They changed the TOP 50 every single year after “GO-Diamond” weekend ;the first weekend in April.. (just another seminar they charge you for, that didn’t build your business) and called it “new.”

    Amazing how they continue to “claim” they have “changed”….when everything stays the same.

  61. Melanie Morgan permalink
    April 13, 2013 9:35 am

    This is suppose to be the “best of the best”….hahaha…Not to mention it costs 300 bucks! I always thought why all the other CD’s then, shouldn’t be any need, right?

    They would say;”You could be dropped off on island with just a top 50 and you could.. go diamond!” (of course that came from an Amway Diamond, where they stole everything)…it was “that good”…hahaha..Embarrassing we repeated that same BS.

  62. Chris permalink
    April 14, 2013 12:46 am

    What’s wrong with multi- level marketing? Found this lengthy, but very informative article. Here’s the link http://www.vandruff.com/mlm.html. ..The article gives a great explanation of why mlms are not the way to go.

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