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Do As I Say, Not As I Do: TEAM Quad 100 Couple Files For Bankruptcy

June 12, 2013

Bill and Jann Newton

Sigh. Another high-ranking TEAM/LIFE couple has filed for bankruptcy. Bill and Jann Newton1 (TEAM Bio), former Founders Diamonds in the Amway Business2, and Quad Turbo 100 TEAM members filed for Chapter 7 Bankruptcy on May 21, 2013, in Wichita, Kansas.

If you want to read the public records on the bankruptcy, sign up for a PACER account and access the records for Case Number 13-11244 in the US Bankruptcy Court, District of Kansas. They have listed $3,303,852 in liabilities against $682,603 in assets. $2 million of the liabilities are a result of a lawsuit by Amway (Case No. 2009 CV 3049 TO) against the Newtons. Several hundred thousand dollars have been marked as bank/credit card debt, legal fees, and other debt that bring the total up to the $3.3 million mark.

Here is a screenshot of the first page of their Chapter 7 filing:

Page one of the Newton's Bankruptcy Documents

Page one of the Newton’s Bankruptcy Documents

Under income and expenses, the Newtons have listed an average monthly income of $7,733 with average monthly expenses totaling $12,223 (half of it is for a mortgage on a homestead). The difference is minus $4,490 each month. What’s interesting is the breakdown of income from their two businesses: Tri Pointe and TEAM VIP. One of them must be their LIFE business, and the other must be their TEAM Director’s profit sharing business (Update June 19, 2013: It’s also possible that Tri Pointe is their MonaVie business). The Newtons listed their income over the past three months:

  • March 2013
    • Tri Pointe: $1,565.00
    • TEAM VIP: $5,261.98
  • April 2013
    • Tri Pointe: $1,130.00
    • TEAM VIP: $2,774.51
  • May 2013
    • Tri Pointe: $836.50
    • TEAM VIP: No Value (probably since the month hadn’t been completed at the time of filing)

The fluctuations in income does not engender confidence in the stability of the LIFE business. In addition, their income over the past three months doesn’t come close to an average of $7,733.

The Newtons were most recently the Plan and Night Owl speakers at the following TEAM/LIFE Opens and Monthly Seminars:

At the Monthly Seminar, Bill and Jann presented the Success Talk, Teaching, Story and Ticket Holder Sessions. Here are two comments from TEAM/LIFE members who attended the meeting:

Kirk Bigham said
April 7, 2013 at 10:12 pm
Liverpool N.Y. Had Bill and Jan Newton. It was fantastic! I know our leadership is looking for NY to Explode and with all the help we are getting from these great speakers its time. Thank you for blessing us and sharing your stories. Family Freedom project from Bill Newton was so inspiring, and any story that has running Satan over with your car is a good one. Fired up Bill keep it up.

Georgia Baker said
April 8, 2013 at 12:12 am
Here in Syracuse we had the privilege of Bill & Jan Newton . Bill did a great leadership talk on reframing . Then taught from solid history of their own story owning 30 different traditional business’s compared to our model !!!! Our investment in tools vs those tools ! Tractors or Cd’s Ha!!- Bill & Jan really ripped away excuses and put the crowd in a reframing mode all nite !
Then their story …. Wow wow !! Every bit of the evening was absolutely awesome ! Several Powerplayer recognition’s .
Fired up !

Somehow I don’t think the story of them filing for bankruptcy made its way into their talk, unless I’m misinterpreting the meaning of “Family Freedom project.” If news of the Newton’s bankruptcy makes its way back to Kirk and Georgia, what would they think now? Would they remain as fired up as they were on April 6?

Do the Policy Council members such as Orrin Woodward, Chris Brady, and Tim Marks (who is the Newton’s upline PC) know that the Bill and Jann have filed for bankruptcy? If so, why did they allow the Newtons to go up on stage and preach the virtues of the LIFE business all while knowing that they were in a financially difficult position?

What I wrote when I revealed the bankruptcies of high-ranking TEAM leaders is still relevant today:

The purpose of this post is not to revel in the financial misery of these TEAM leaders. Going through a bankruptcy is a life-changing and supremely stressful event.

That said, TEAM members have to look really hard in the mirror and ask themselves if their leaders are truly doing what they say they are doing. Do they deserve or warrant their members’ trust when they hide or spin away these facts? Are they qualified to teach about Finances, one of the precious 8F’s in LIFE?

1 The Newtons are parents to Cody and Tara Newton, Round Table members within TEAM/LIFE. See Cody’s Leadership website here.

2 Here’s a letter from Bill Newton to TEAM members during the Amway/Quixtar schism in 2007.

97 Comments leave one →
  1. Rascal Teamster permalink
    June 12, 2013 4:40 am

    Holy Moly…..and the hits just keep on coming.

    So let’s see….Cullen, Darkangelo, and now Newtons. Hmmmmmm…..all part if the Marks’ team. Go figure.

    The Paul’s and the Martin’s must be sweating bullets. LIFE is good?????

  2. noteam permalink
    June 12, 2013 5:09 am

    Rascal – Don’t forget the Huber bankruptcy too

  3. Rascal Teamster permalink
    June 12, 2013 6:17 am

    Yeah, but Hubers are above Marks, and I was more talking about specifically the Marks’ team as I was part of that line.

    The thing I’m starting to realize is that after all of these years, there are way more former members looking for this stuff than there are active members trying to hide it.

    So the first bankruptcy of the LIFE business is upon us. Wonder how many other dominos will fall before the PC throws everyone else under the bus and goes into hiding? They’re scammers, but they aren’t stupid. You know they see the trend and they are talking about the “what ifs.”

    Something to consider. The FTC might never have to move on this group. The market might take care of Team for them. Wonder if they realize this??? Only time will tell.

    I imagine the IRS is going to climb up the butt of the big leaders. There will be some hiding and some audits. Is audit and tax evasion information public and where would one look if so?

    @James (our new friend from the IDS thread)… your girlfriend this thread. This is as current as it gets. And please, if you read this, let us know how that went with her. You can help us help others. That’s community, brother!

    AMTHRAX….do you have a way to email this to James whether or not he’s chosen to get new thread follow ups. I’d appreciate that.

  4. June 12, 2013 6:40 am

    Yes, I can forward the post to James.

    I’m sure that the blame will go to Amway (i.e. their former “supplier”) for causing the Newtons to file for bankruptcy. After all, $2 million is a lot of money. Yet, even if you take that away, there’s still a lot of debt that’s accumulated over the years.

    While it’s unfortunate that the Newtons have to resort to this, I feel more for those TEAM/LIFE members who have had to sit through meeting after meeting listening to the Newtons praise this business as a great opportunity.

  5. Rascal Teamster permalink
    June 12, 2013 7:12 am

    Heck, I’m absolutely frosted at how many times I heard Tim and Amy Marks applaud Bill & Jann as “business wizards.” Makes me sick, but it’s the same thing that my wife and I heard Mark & Jenn Paul say about Cullen’s and Darkangelo’s.

    When I called Mark on the D & C bankruptcies, he told me, “some people just don’t take council.” And he told me, “Joe and I never discussed his finances. Finances are one of the 8 F’s that they would have to mentor their teams in. What gives with this lack of real leadership?

    If you mentor people, and they don’t openly discuss their finances, you have to respectfully force the issue. It’s really an easy sell on why they need to talk about it. Else how would they learn to mentor others? Wouldn’t you just have history repeating itself?

    Why didn’t Tim Marks help The Newtons with their financial poor thinking, or did he and they not take his council either? Wonder if the Paul / Darkangelo council issue applies to Bill & Jann?

    As a side thought, the Team system is going to hang them. Wonder how recently Orrin or Tim bragged about the Newtons?

  6. June 12, 2013 11:57 am

    The Newtons were my direct upline. I was brought in to the business by one of their relatives. I really liked these people while I was in. I remember all the opens with Bill and Jan sharing their story. I could’ve told their story for them…ha. I remember being at the majors while they qualified for Triple 100 or something like that (before LIFE).

    They really were nice people, and I enjoyed talking with Cody, his son, and Tymber his son-in-law, two guys who really loved their families and, I believe, wanted the best for them. They were good guys.

    I also remember how when I began to start questioning things, it started to change. I was reading one of the Top 5 books (none of which I now care for. Too much humanistic in thinking and approach to people/relationships), and something stuck out in one of the books that rubbed me the wrong way. That night I talked to my sponsor about it and he feigned concern about it, but nothing really happened. Shortly after that night, I told my friend (who I got in and really had taken more of the lead of those we recruited) that I was out, and after unsuccessfully keeping me in the biz, I NEVER heard from my upline again. Never once did they call me or try and talk me out of the decision. It was like I never existed. It’s a shame they could’t maintain real friendships with us once we leave the business. The shunning piece was a difficult process to go through.

    While I don’t know every aspect of the Newton’s life, I did begin to see a superficiality after a while. The glamour of them eventually wore off and they started to appear fake to me. I think they are just one of the cogs in the mlm wheel who “churn” many like me while not realizing the lives they’ve left in turmoil in their wake as they’ve climbed to the top…only to fall as what has recently happened with them.

    “Pride goes before a fall”… Bill and Jan, I hope you have learned this lesson and will remove yourself from this ungodly business…

  7. June 12, 2013 12:52 pm

    Ha! That’s why this entire farce, is not a business, bizz or similar mingle-mangle but a cult, specifically just a nauseating, puerile, predatory commercial cult.

  8. noteam permalink
    June 12, 2013 1:16 pm

    I’ve heard from several people that used to know the Newtons when they were in Amway and from what I’ve heard, they have become totally different people since hanging around Orrin. They used to be some of the most honorable people of integrity. But from what I’ve heard, their reputation had declined quite a bit since becoming part of Team.


    I have heard from several sources that MonaVie helped Orrin with a lot of the legal fees, I assume also part of the famous $25 million judgement against Orrin & crew when they lost their famous battle with Amway. Why wouldn’t Orrin help out the Newton’s with their legal fees? Why leave them hang out to dry? If I were Newton’s, I’d be ticked that they stood up for Orrin, yet he didn’t help them out.

    Newton’s – wake up!!!!! You were such good Christian people and had a much better financial picture before teaming up with Orrin. Now, your finances are gone & everyone who thought so much of you for the past few decades looks at you as someone who sacrificed their integrity & character. Look at what your life has become as a result of Orrin.

    Don’t sell your soul, your integrity, your character and your legacy for this filth. Leave him and redeem yourself as a man of integrity. You will gain the respect back of so many hundreds of leaders who looked at you with such respect for the past few decades. You were such a good Christian man before you met Orrin.

  9. Melanie Morgan permalink
    June 13, 2013 6:56 pm

    Quad 100? And that is the pittance they pay?!!!!!!

    1) Either his upliline or PC is making a boat load off cash somewhere off a that group (clearly it isn’t the Newtons!)

    2) Someones lying about their rank.they …Quad 100, according to their pay scale they flashed up on the screen at go-diamond…Quad was a 30,000 per month income!

    3) Orrin changed the formula or deal AGAIN!

    Writings on the wall! How many more is it gonna take?!

    I believe Orrin knows his beloved LIfE, is closing in on an epic fail and that his why he is taking the direction he is, his actions speak so loud, just too bad the follows are too afraid to save themselves! He must be running scared, it’s catching up….He has to be hoping he can pull this political (book) agenda off before they all fall off the cliff…

    Can’t happen soon enough! How many more lives have to be financially destroyed before others get up the guts and save their families…cuz it is all down hill since they started!

    I 100% agree, matterj22, It is the pride before the fall!!

    Amthrax, –

    Blame…they wouldn’t…ever… “real leaders“ dont blame, they own up and take resposibility, ha! 🙂

    Have to say it’s sad, but doubt this will be the last!

  10. Melanie Morgan permalink
    June 13, 2013 7:02 pm


    You guys were not originally in Orrin’s group, who’s line of sponsorship or Amway Diamond group are you and the Newton’s from?

  11. noteam permalink
    June 13, 2013 7:08 pm

    Newtons used to be under Dexter Yager, like so many of the other leaders that Orrin pilfered.

  12. Melanie Morgan permalink
    June 13, 2013 7:23 pm


    Thanks! I did figure that, were they directly sponsored by Dexter or did they have other upline Diamonds(s)?

    Amazing isn’t it…..but you can’t royally screw people and scam others for your own selfishiness without eventually getting what you give!!

    For Orrin… and many others….it is LONG OVERDUE!

  13. Melanie Morgan permalink
    June 13, 2013 7:24 pm

    You know what they say about paybacks….. 🙂

  14. noteam permalink
    June 13, 2013 8:43 pm

    I really hope Bill & Jan read this site and start doing some serious soul searching at how drastically their lives have changed and the people they have allowed themselves to become since meeting Orrin. People used to always talk about what great people of integrity they are. Now many of their former closest friends and neighbors talk about how they’ve lost their values over the past 4 years.

    Bill & Jan – why did Orrin leave you out to dry? Is that really all they are paying you? Look at the lifestyle Orrin has. Look at how many leaders that you know were not in Orrin’s original downline. How much longer can you continue to look the other way at Orrin’s lies????

    Give Effie Ried a call. Give Toby Hale a call. Give Randy & Val Haugen a call. Call Bobbie Dickie, Pastor Dickie, Lance Smith, Columbo DiSalvator, John Sims, Don Wilson, etc. Find out the truth about Orrin & do the right thing!!!!

  15. Melanie Morgan permalink
    June 13, 2013 10:54 pm

    All have a common denominator! Too sad, people continue to cover for him! Most will never call those leaders because they are afraid of the truth, won’t swollow their pride, afraid of Orrin and him cutting off the pittance they are making!

    They are afraid of being called a loser and am sure afraid of getting a real job because they have been indoctrinated and bought into the lies that they are “failures.“ But they are better to cut and run seriously LOOk at the pittance they are being paid, not to mention the brain flushing they will need to go through when they finally face the facts! Cut your loses and run,!

    Sadly, Orrin enticed All those Diamonds, Emeralds and anyone else he could use for his means to his end…not giving a rip for anyone, but to bring more profit to him!

    But the evidence and experiences reveals all those leaders you mention and many, many more who have left want nothing to do with him or his very poor paying system.or his yes-men, …and they continue to let them burn one by one….with not an ounce of remorse!

    And the irony…He conned them with MONEY from the team profit-sharing and How much MORE they were going to make by joining him! Passive, residual, ongoing etc..Misleading and enticing at it’s finest!

    And the worst part is everyone believed those lies and then found out just how (un) trustworthy their “word“!

  16. Former Round Table permalink
    June 14, 2013 5:07 am

    The story of the Newton’s is so sad. They, like many others, believed Orrin really was what he said he was. Like Billy Florence, the Haugens, and countless others, the Newton’s have learned just how much their loyalty is worth to Orrin. The fact that they claim legal bills in their bankruptcy filing is pathetic. They were sued by Amway for one reason only: they chose to follow Orrin. And he repays them by sticking them with the legal costs to defend themselves, and the judgment and order to pay Amway.

    Tim Marks is no better. He honestly said he did not know about Darkangelo’s and Cullen’s financial problems? For Pete’s sake, I even knew they were having trouble, and they were cross-line to me! Tim Marks is such a liar.

    The spin Orrin and Tim will put on the Newton’s bankruptcy is this: it was all Amway’s fault; Bill and Jan just got too emotionally damaged by Amway’s actions that it impacted their ability to build the business. Remember this: it is NEVER because the business is bad.

    These guys are so stinking pathetic. They preach leadership and leadershift, but the only thing they are good at shifting is blame.

  17. Rascal Teamster permalink
    June 14, 2013 5:40 am

    @Former Round Table,

    That was me that wrote about the Darkangelo’s upline not knowing about their money trouble. It’s in the bankruptcy thread.

    It wasn’t Tim Marks. It was Mark Paul who told me that in the last private conversation I had with him. Joe was mentoring with Mark Paul……unless Joe was going above Mark Paul and mentoring directly with Tim Marks. That is totally possible, but if so, Tim should still inform Mark Paul of the trouble.

    I just wanted to know if he and Bill Lewis knew of Darnangelo’s trouble before they both did a “massive” houseplan at Joe’s house.

    Now I want to make that clear that I don’t know if he was lying, but it does bring into question his leadership. How is Mark Paul qualified to have the lives of others under his leadership if he doesn’t know how to lead someone into talking about their finances? I mean Joe has to mentor others who mentor others. There are only 8 F’s, and Finances is one of them.

    If Joe won’t talk about it, doesn’t Mark Paul have to go to Tim Marks or Orrin and get help in that area? If he doesn’t, what does Orrin do then? Has Orrin taught Mark Paul how to do this since the Darkangelo bankruptcy?

    It really brings into question the whole Team Leadership model. It appears lacking.

    Of course, you have first hand knowledge of Mark Paul’s prior knowledge.

    Now if that’s true, then Mark Paul was a little deceiving at that house plan when he and Bill Lewis pumped up Joe’s leadership ability. Remember it wasn’t two weeks later that Joe declared bankruptcy. I know people who were at that plan and heard it first hand.

    Lol….I still have the email invite to that house plan that passed from Darkangelo’s to Jenn Paul and forwarded to me.

    Former Round Table…..I do believe that you and I have them cornered no matter which way they try to spin this one.

    I thank you for your contributions to this site and the fight to right some of the wrongs that we were both unfortunately and unknowingly involved in.

  18. Former Round Table permalink
    June 14, 2013 8:08 am

    Rascal, believe me, they ALL knew about Darkangelo’s money problems, all the way up to Orrin. Right around the time that Darkangelo’s filed for bankruptcy, Mark Paul complained to some of his downline about not making enough money and being worried he would lose his fancy-shmancy house on Lake Angelus. And he mentioned a number of other people he knew about who had serious financial problems. If he was talking downline, he was no doubt talking upline too. (Mark Paul’s downline shared the good news crossline, which I then heard third-hand. Clearly it’s all hearsay and I have no proof of any of it. Oh wait, some of these people then filed for bankruptcy, so do I need proof?)

    Also, Laurie Woodward is super close to Anna Huber. There is no doubt that Mrs. Woodward was well aware of the financial troubles of the Huber’s, not to mention other problems the Huber’s have had.

    There was a time, a LONG time ago, when Orrin’s business was exploding for real. Since then, the game for the top leaders has been to spin any bad news, blame Amway/Monavie/quitters/anyone who is not them for lack of growth, lie about growth and numbers, deceive by parading false recognition across stage, slander former friends and business partners, and abandon people who loyally followed them.

    I am SOOOOO glad I am out!

  19. Former Round Table permalink
    June 14, 2013 8:09 am

    Rascal, thank you for YOUR contributions to this site also.

  20. Rascal Teamster permalink
    June 14, 2013 8:31 am

    Thank you for clearing that up FRT.

    Does anyone happen to know the legal ramifications of a company that touts being able to mentor people in the 8 F’s….financial being one….and then hides / overlooks the financial troubles of their big leaders?

    Isn’t there something legally here like if a financial investment firm uses employees who lack required qualifications? At what point does that become criminal?

    Also, what about false advertising claims that they can help you financially where you’ll have a mentor with fruit on the tree?

    It just seems that there should be more weight throw at this when your entire business is designed to make you a success, doesn’t it?

  21. June 14, 2013 8:58 am

    All of these bankruptcies within the TEAM are only further proof that none of these people are qualified to be LIFE coaches in the area of finances! They don’t have the fruit on the tree!

  22. P.J. permalink
    June 14, 2013 2:23 pm

    Don’t forget the other issue here. Bill and Jan have a son AND a daughter that are very deep into this business. One is a Round Table & one is in the neighborhood of Turbo 100. Orrin & crew have their hooks deep, there’s a lot at stake for their entire family’s well being. I would expect nothing less than for Bill to continue to toe the company line. Too bad.

    As for the sorry reported income for Bill & Jann: I wouldn’t be surprised if they manipulated their customers and such for the past few months by moving them under Cody or slinging them directly under him to show less income for Bill and Jan. From a long-term standpoint, it all flows up. Even with an audit of their teams, it would take a very good understanding of “the biz” to track that down. And with all the new changes, who the heck knows what’s going on. Sad.

  23. Dale Hansen permalink
    June 15, 2013 7:47 am

    This reminds me of the large, bloated government. Their model IS the problem no matter how good the leadership tries to be. Please don’t pick on the individuals (Newtons) trying to steer a crap business model that by its very design, fails. Its time for the Team leaders to find a new way to create income for people. Try picking a product people actually need. When you have a non-essential product like Cd’s, it will never hold together. Kudos to Orrin & Brady for trying. But its time to become a legitimate product business, just like millions of others. Hopefully, the leaders are not too arrogant and prideful, and actually change the model so many people can actually MAKE money, not lose money.

  24. Rascal Teamster permalink
    June 15, 2013 8:36 am

    @Dale Hansen,

    You said, “Please don’t pick on the individuals (Newtons) trying to steer a crap business model that by its very design, fails.”

    I don’t think that can really be a pass on this one, Dale. Of course it fails by design. Their IDS proves it.

    The Newton’s Team and Life business have been going down the tubes…..Not unlike the other bankruptcies. They know it. Orrin and Team Office have to know it. They all know there is big trouble in Team VIP, however there is no let up in the amout of praise and worship these two have been given all the way to the end. That is not right. It’s the type of manipulation and deception that we rail against here.

    In a leadership business, shouldn’t only the truly successful in the 8F’s be allowed to teach and mentor? Shouldn’t there be some kind of rules or regulations that prevent a couple who is failing financially to be touted as successful in that area? And more importantly, as shown in the Timeline, they continued to lure people into their failing opportunity. Does that not seem almost criminal….I mean it’s a success business after all?

    I know that’s the way it works in MLMs…all of them, but seriously, at what point does someone have to be held responsible for their OWN actions?

    I seriously believe this is one of those times, Dale. Do you disagree?

  25. P.J. permalink
    June 15, 2013 3:58 pm

    Dale, you can’t give the Newtons or anyone at that level a pass. They continue to do two things that are indefensible: take part in a culture that promotes them as good & successful business people and tout the Team model as a viable, sustainable B business. Knowing that their bankruptcy was impending, how could they travel to NY & speak highly of this business? It’s bad enough to do it week after week at their opens but it takes a special kind of deceitfulness to fake it halfway across the country.

    Everyone on Team VIP who reads this: if Bill & Jann Newton [a funnel through which every single PV of yours & the rest of Team VIP flows directly to Tim Marks] cannot succeed in this long-term & are bankrupt at almost 60, what chance do you have? Bow out before you become the ‘7 years in, perpetually struggling to maintain Turbo 25’ guy who has nothing to show for it except broken relationships, fake friends, & busted finances.

  26. Freedomhaha permalink
    June 15, 2013 4:34 pm

    P.J.- To be on the inner circle and know makes you just as evil as OW. God bless people like the Peters and Morgans that left when they knew it was wrong.

  27. TruthSeeker permalink
    June 15, 2013 5:00 pm

    @Dale Hansen wrote, ” Its time for the Team leaders to find a new way to create income for people. Try picking a product people actually need. When you have a non-essential product like Cd’s, it will never hold together. Kudos to Orrin & Brady for trying. But its time to become a legitimate product business,”

    Although I agree with you about choosing a better product Dale, their “product” (tongue in cheek), isn’t the basis of the problem, the problem lies in the allocation of compensation dollars.

    You could substitute toilet paper, vitamins, toothpaste, shampoo or whatever for their “tools” and the IDS would look exactly the same.

    You then wrote, “its time to become a legitimate product business”, just wondering Dale if you could name 5 “legitimate” product based businesses within the MLM arena?

    You then wrote, “Hopefully, the leaders are not too arrogant and prideful, and actually change the model so many people can actually MAKE money, not lose money.” Again Dale refer to my above comment, their compensation plan guarantees failure by design in excess of 95% (the IDS is actually much worse).

    Not trying to pick on you Dale, but you are only focusing on 1/2 of the equation. Consumable products cannot, nor will not bring more people into profit unless the comp plan is revamped.

    The only kudos I would be willing to give them is my middle finger salute. 🙂

  28. Melanie Morgan permalink
    June 15, 2013 6:58 pm

    Now I know ya’ll that this is a dead serious matter, you guys are nailing it and I am ROFL, Thanks to you all! 🙂

  29. P.J. permalink
    June 15, 2013 9:47 pm

    Freedom, if your definition of ‘evil’ is someone who once built the business based on bad information, then that puts me in the company of most people here. Excluding anyone who knew for a fact that their upline were lying about how successful they were, you’re saying those who showed plans & maybe even had success are evil. I disagree.

    You might point to several posts on this blog & say “look at the facts, you had to know it was a scam”. The problem with determining what is good info & what is just whining is that most of what is presented here can quite easily be spun the other way.

    Let’s look at what I’d consider the 2 most damaging topics on this blog:

    Bankruptcies: Unless you were doing business with them at that time, any bankruptcy, foreclosure, etc can be spun from multiple angles. The more time that passes, the easier it is to blame it on someone/something else. The Darkangelos & Hubers: weren’t their bankruptcies around the time Team left Amway? That’s an easy one to deflect. It’s not until it’s YOUR guy in the bankruptcy listings that the curtain begins to rise. Until more RTs & above start declaring bankruptcy, these events that happen far off in other teams can be swept under the rug (no cross lining, remember?)

    The IDS: Even with Amthrax breaking it down, there is just enough mystery there that allows the PC to continually trickle down belief & “tough love” to the rank & file. This doesn’t equal results to said rank and file but it keeps the PC afloat. Rinse (with the same tired rehetoric), recycle (with the few true believers), repeat (with newbies who are good for a few PV & then gone). Just work harder & your chunk of the pie will increase.

    Unless the FTC shuts the whole thing down, facts pointed out by this site & others will always be spun with a “the entire world is out to get us, rally the troops & bring them to seminar!” mentality.

    For me, I was presented with what I consider indisputable, unspinnable facts that ran contrary to the messages preached to me from Team leaders & I decided to stop. I hope that my friends who are still active look at the facts, weigh them against what they’ve personally been told & sold, and come to the same conclusion I did.

  30. Dale Hansen permalink
    June 16, 2013 3:20 pm

    I actually feel sorry for the people that get caught up in it all, work hard, to find out the business sucks, and they become desperate. By that time, they must feel trapped. I think in the Quixtar days, which actually had real products, and a good economy, their model worked to a point. But in a weak economy, and no real products, people are finding out what a weak model does. It collapses, over and over. Once someone makes millions (Orrin), people think he’s a genius, but he’s just a man. People in MLM worship people who actually make money. Its pathetic, but true. All the ‘edification’, big screen larger than life video screens, loud speakers, rock star cult-like environment. But it sets people up for failure. Go easy, pray for these people. If they are lost, pray grace will touch their heart, and they will find a better way. As the Bible says, blessed are the peace makers.

  31. Rascal Teamster permalink
    June 16, 2013 4:33 pm

    I don’t think there’s anyone here who doesn’t feel sorry for the people who get wrapped up in this “business.”

    The question at hand, that you really inspired, is should the Newtons be held accountable for what they’ve done, or should the leaders get a pass due to a faulty business model?

    Not really trying to call you out, Dale, but in a way I am. Just trying to get you to answer that one for yourself. At what level does a leader know something isn’t right and move from the duped to the duper? Certainly at the Round Table level, no?

  32. TruthSeeker permalink
    June 16, 2013 5:57 pm

    Kind words @Dale, “Go easy, pray for these people. If they are lost, pray grace will touch their heart, and they will find a better way.”

    Do you supposed these charlatans are going easy on Raquel? NO! They know they are running a scam, yet continue to perpetuate it. Grace cannot touch hearts consumed by greed. Sorry Charlie, no dice.

  33. James Martin permalink
    June 17, 2013 10:05 am

    Brought this all up to my girlfriend, and she is looking into it herself and will be making a decision soon. This info here is a good example of the “financial security” I was worried about since day 1.

    I find it hard to believe that a company can have so much negative energy against it, and still maintain the same level of respect from their members. Mind boggling, really. I hope that the refund system works well, I want at least this month’s expenses back. They preach a good refund system, so we shall see. Wish me luck!

  34. James Martin permalink
    June 17, 2013 10:09 am

    My next question is, what is the history of Orron Woodward? Was he part of Amway? Has he been involved in schemes before? I want to know his history, since I cannot seem to find anything solid myself.

  35. June 17, 2013 10:34 am

    @James Martin – Read the timeline post and the Forbes article from 2008 for details on Orrin Woodward’s past history with Amway/Quixtar and MonaVie.

    Orrin Woodward uses the term “former supplier” when talking about Amway/Quixtar. I don’t know what term they use to describe MonaVie. TEAM/LIFE does not appear to be actively promoting that business anymore.

    When did you and your girlfriend join LIFE, James? How was the business and its leadership promoted to you?

  36. James Martin permalink
    June 17, 2013 11:49 am

    She joined roughly a year ago, not sure. I joined two months ago, and quickly noticed I couldn’t do it.

    They say at the open meetings that its, “just $85 and you’re in!” but they tend to avoid money talks as they are “not the point of the company.”

    It was promoted as this company that is not for everyone, and tended to say the same thing over amd over. Which bothered me, but they seemed to make sense at the time. There are many speakers who come up and have the same story, they were in high paying careers and still somehow were struggling. They use that and the lack of time to see their kids as the fuel for the others who hear the story. To me it seems like they are trying to convince people that this is their only hope. This is the only way to make a living and be happy. Every open and seminar I went to felt the same and after a few, I hated going. It always caused issues. The one quote that made me look really hard into all this was at an open, I don’t remember the speaker, but he said that the company pays peope to be good people. What? Truly good people don’t need compensation to be good. I give freely of myself and constantly help others. I didn’t give half of my 21 years of life to good deeds just so the average joe can claim the same title just because he is part of a business. That is wrong and manipulative of human interests.

  37. June 17, 2013 11:52 am

    Was your girlfriend and/or were you planning to go to the Summer Conference this weekend in Columbus, OH?

  38. James Martin permalink
    June 17, 2013 11:55 am

    Another issue is the fact that every speaker I’ve seen has been successful BEFORE joining team/life, really fails to prove how successful their company is if nobody high up in it started like the average person…

  39. James Martin permalink
    June 17, 2013 11:57 am

    And we were gonna go, but im not sure we are now.

  40. P.J. permalink
    June 17, 2013 12:45 pm

    James, as someone relatively new (joined Team post-Monavie) there is a ton of information on this site, more than you’ll be able to sift through. I would encourage you to look at facts that you can verify. A lot of info here is hard to verify precisely enough to make a business decision.

    Yes, it now looks like Orrin is a master manipulator who apparently screwed a lot of folks over when Team left Amway, but how can people like us verify step-by-step what exactly happened? That was 6 years & several lawsuits ago. And if you have an upline next to you ready to spin it the other way like I did, you won’t have clarity as to what’s real & what’s not.

    Let’s look at some facts.

    Fact #1: the leadership accolades on which Team is based were not earned on merit. NYT Best Selling Authors & Top 30 Ldrshp Gurus! Wow! The only 2 in the Top 30 from the same company! How reputable!

    Here’s the problem: not only does documentation from the NY Times indicate bulk orders for LLR (thanks, Amthrax) but they’re pulling the same scam with Leadershift. How about Tim Marks’ book he released last year? Well, guess what! He’s writen another to sell to YOU. See a pattern here?

    Fact #2: The Top 30 Leadeship Guru List was a sham. How many times was it touted to you as “an independent, non-agenda driven list of the top leaders”? That was the house built on the LLR foundation and it supposedly is their leadership “Fruit on the tree”. Well, the owners of the that list just announced Orrin & Chris were kicked off because of fradulent votes. Now even THAT’S been exposed as a scam!

    Fact #3: The Newtons, as of last month, are bankrupt. If you didn’t read it carefully, go back & look at their reported income. After all these years of supposed success, THAT’S the B business income that a team of thousands provides??? Fact #3a: your team will never be as big as the Newton’s. Do the math.

    So what’s left? Their word? No. What’s left is your upline’s word. The PC thrive on the guy that signed you up to regurgitate the “who are you gonna believe? Me or some blog commenters?” crap that they teach all the worker bees. Look at the facts & make the right choice.

  41. Freedomhaha permalink
    June 17, 2013 12:56 pm

    James Martin- Congrats on achieving real freedom apart from TEAM. Smarter man than myself leaving after only two months. I have no doubt that your story will help others see the huge money pit that is TEAM.

  42. noteam permalink
    June 17, 2013 4:48 pm

    Does it by any chance list the name and phone number of the trustee for the bankruptcy? It is a federal crime to manipulate income for a bankruptcy. If the Newton business truly has any asset value, it must be listed. If their income was higher before planning the bankruptcy and Orrin had any help in adjusting and/or transferring any income to Cody – then the Newtons & Orrin could be in a lot of trouble. (Not saying this happened and not accusing, just making the observation).

    It would be interesting if someone called the trustee in the case and told them they might want to look a bit further. Trustees work for the Department of Justice and are normally compensated by how much money they recover so a trustee might have in interest in taking a serious look into this one.

  43. June 17, 2013 5:31 pm

    This information is contained in the public records for the bankruptcy filing, case number 13-11244 (Wichita, Sedgwick County, Kansas).

  44. James Martin permalink
    June 18, 2013 12:49 am

    So, I talked with someone in my upline tonight. He says that the bankruptcy claims are illegitimate because they are caused by Amway lawsuits. He also says that this website is illegitimate because there is no face to represent this side of the argument.

  45. James Martin permalink
    June 18, 2013 3:33 am

    My issue here is that this company promises that you will have financial security if you follow them. Where is the security?

  46. Rascal Teamster permalink
    June 18, 2013 4:14 am

    Not buying your upline’s line. It doesn’t matter how you slice it, Joe D had $200k in consumer debt with ZERO charitable donations while being touted as a success. The Amway expulsion does not give that a pass. Joe would have looked better had he gotten a job like the rest of us. Anytime you stick with something to THAT amount of loss, you are a knucklehead. That was dumb and not worthy of praise. A true mentor would never have let him build that much debt. But his upline’s biz would have crumbled if Joe didn’t stay in. That’s a major flaw in networking. To do the right thing, his mentor would have had to cut his own throat. Never gonna happen. True friends and mentors in this biz? Bull crap!

    About the nameless faces….Ask your upline if he remembers these faces….John and Melanie Morgan. If your upline wasn’t in Team when we got booted from Amway, he’s just repeating what he’s been told to repeat. But ask them anyway. The 2006 Top 50, “The One Thing” by John and Melanie Morgan. I’d like to see if his response is as sorry as the one I got from Mark Paul…..”John & Melanie who? I don’t even know who you’re talking about.”

    Yup that was about it for me. That CD was recommended to me by Mark & Jenn in my Top 50.

    Yeah, for real Melanie. He doesn’t “remember” you. He pulled the ultimate Bill Clinton, “I never heard of that woman.”

  47. James Martin permalink
    June 18, 2013 4:31 am

    He did what I expected, that is, he regurgitated every bit of information he heard thus far himself. He has been in for 7 plus years and there were only like 8 people separating him from me. If the system worked when applied correctly, where are his results?

  48. James Martin permalink
    June 18, 2013 4:32 am

    Who were John and Melanie Morgan? I know Melanie is here sometimes, I have seen her contributions and they are some of the best bits of info I’ve gotten.

  49. Rascal Teamster permalink
    June 18, 2013 4:33 am

    If your upline’s been in that long, he knows the Morgan’s and Peter’s

  50. Rascal Teamster permalink
    June 18, 2013 4:36 am

    BIG, HUGE Round Tables who were on Guzzardo’s team. They built the majority of his business. When they parted (were forced out) after Amway, their teams were given to Hawkins and other.

  51. Rascal Teamster permalink
    June 18, 2013 4:37 am

    Hey Melanie, I just realized, to anyone after Wuixtar, you are a nameless face. You need a bio up here somewhere stating who you are and your achievements. How many times did you go double and triple power player?

  52. June 18, 2013 6:47 am

    @James – if your upline looked at the bankruptcy documents and took away the legal fees and debts related to the Amway lawsuit, you will see that the Newtons are still in the red with regards to their monthly expenses.

  53. MinitureGiantSpaceHamster permalink
    June 18, 2013 10:01 am

    @James: Your line of thinking in LIFE sounds similar to my brief experience earlier in the year. After the initial WOW wore off it became the same thing over and over. They always said to take notes. Did you ever hear anything worthy of writing down? I sat there with a notepad waiting for valuable information but it never came. There were the odd things I jotted down but that was more just to tell myself I took notes. Anyways, six weeks and I was out.

    I don’t consider my LIFE experience a total waste of time. Through it I was introduced to this website which in turn lead me to many awesome (and free) financial blogs. There was a whole wealth of untapped awesome information out there I never knew existed before.

  54. Melanie Morgan permalink
    June 18, 2013 11:25 pm

    Rascal and all, I am still with ya, pretty sure I won’t forget you 🙂

    Sorry been scarce lately, super busy enjoying my life. 🙂 Very interesting, I will respond soon when I have some more time. Doing some traveling on and off over next 5 days but I will do my best to respond when I can.

    Few quick question for P.J. –

    First if you have already stated this, I apologize for missing it. But what turbo level were you in Team and were you around..and have a team in Quixtar? If so, did you re-register your team into Monavie or was that controlled by your upline?

  55. P.J. permalink
    June 19, 2013 6:15 am

    Melanie, I joined after Monavie & crossed as a Turbo 25 but struggled to maintain it. I’m eager to share my perspective because I’ve recently been on the other side where everything on this site is spun the other way.

  56. Rascal Teamster permalink
    June 19, 2013 6:39 am

    Please share your story with the group, PJ. Amthrax has a place for ex Team stories.

    I’d love to hear it. I’m sure the other readers would as well.

  57. Melanie Morgan permalink
    June 19, 2013 7:14 am


    Agreed there is a lot on this site, much of it may seem unverifiable also, but doesn’t mean it can’t be. But I understand, especially to someone who was not in when all the shenanigans transpired but understand for those who were in, many have their own documentation that will never be put up here, it would take a library for all the reams of documentation. 🙂 Those who were in, understand this, one can compare their own experience and verify.

    And a very obvious but extremely important aspect people can see is the pattern in behavior, the comonalities in experiences and robotic responses that run through this entire site, …easily verified…only takes others using critical thinking and some common sense.

    Those who are still in and new can go back and ask those hard questions of their uplines, wouldn’t take much to confirm and become aware. 🙂

    Thanks for sharing your perspective, it’s appreciated.

  58. June 19, 2013 7:25 am

    Ex-TEAM members can send me their responses to the Q&A questions via email.

  59. Melanie Morgan permalink
    June 19, 2013 7:48 am


    I pity those in who would sell out their integrity, or feel they have to be dishonest and arrogant to try and handle any sincere questions they are confronted with, especially when they have held positions in churches that their actions will be held to a higher standard or would lead others astray because of their poor leadership example. I guess honesty and integrity really isn’t important to them.

    Too sad, says it all for me about their character, not sure how any of them live with themselves but that is on them and their problem.

    They will be the ones to eventually answer for that and have to live with their own conscience, eventually it will take it’s toll….count on it.

    P.s. Sorry bout the cd. If we could turn back time…..

    James –

    I’m out of time but keep thinking and asking questions, don’t ever quit using your gut and critical thinking! You are one of the more fortunate ones that spotted the red flags early on and are following your gut! Keep trying to get your questions answered for yourself.

    This farce creates serious divions and taxes relationships to the max, don’t set yourself up with logical or high expectations with your girlfriend. Godspeed and good luck. 🙂

    She has been in a year, it could take some patience on your part. That’s a long time for a persons mind entrenched in that environment! Hopefully, she will open her eyes sooner rather than later. You can count on and will find much needed support from all these great people on here.

  60. Rascal Teamster permalink
    June 19, 2013 8:34 am

    Isn’t it interesting that the leaders who will cry from stage at the Summer Major, and try to convince the masses that “this is much more than a business” are the only ones who have a business in this?

    That always bothered me in LIFE, and one of the reasons these bankruptcies bother me even more. It turns out they don’t have much of a business either.

    When 40.4% never renew, and STP now stands for Show Two Plans, are they telling members that they need to show 30 a month to get ahead of the game? Is Power Player still 10 & 5? I wonder what Power Player numbers look like…any Triples or Quads like the old days? As the summer major is upon us, I’m just a little curious.

  61. TruthSeeker permalink
    June 19, 2013 10:14 am

    I am curious to know the current PP qualifications as well. Since “system” is now the product how many, how deep, and what do they have to do, anyone know?

  62. Charles permalink
    June 19, 2013 11:31 am

    I notice that no one posted this yet – even if you took out the $2 million in liabilities related to the lawsuit against these people, they would STILL be considered insolvent. Financial freedom? Ha!

  63. Chrisxrascal permalink
    June 19, 2013 11:33 am

    Melanie – on when you said this is much more than a business. I’ve concluded that they want people to believe the reason to stay in ” LIfe” isn’t just to make money, but to improve your life. to me they use that as a distraction from your business success.. Now in my opinion they now added a purpose for the team, they want you to believe that because your in the ” LIfe ” business your going to help the efforts of the 10 % that are going to help this nations ” business” leaders make this nation prosperous.? So if you quit it seems they will get people to think well there’s another person who doesn’t want to improve themselves and another person who is had no success in the ” life ” business and doesn’t want to help the 10% or be in the 10 %. The reason I have so much distaste this business is the way they try to put people in categories, if your not into their business. I find this business to be more cult like than I originally thought. One of the statements that bothered me and sounded cult like is when leaders say that the ” Life business is Truth” . This statement continues to bother me as a Christian believer. It seems they use the Bible to make their ” Life ” information look better than it really is. As a Christian myself it says to look out for these things.When you start saying that something is truth, especially if you say your “Christian” and your promoting this so called life changing information over the Bible, it raises some serious concerns in my opinion.

  64. James Martin permalink
    June 19, 2013 12:49 pm

    So, my girlfriend is out now too. She had enough when we talked to someone in her upline. There was a point where he called me and was asking me things, and i returned fire with new questions and got the same answers as I did for others.

    He kept trying to say my generation has no hope anymore because we are constantly lied to (go figure!) And that was the reason I was feeling no trust. The conversation reached an end when he asked why I was still trying for information when I was set on quitting for good, and my answer was, “For my girlfriend. I want her to be sure as well.” He then replied that she is a grown adult and can schedule a meeting and ask the questions herself. She was next to me the whole time listening in, amd heard him say that my purpose was a waste of time.

    At that point my girlfriend went to the team and life websites, and canceled her subs and quit. She is sick of hearing the same information parroted again and again. I am very displeased with the way he responded to and handled all this. Obviously there is something wrong if this man just blindly quotes everything he hears from the speakers. Im afraid he has no personal thoughts anymore. Sad to see a nice man fall into this.

  65. TruthSeeker permalink
    June 19, 2013 3:32 pm

    @ChrisxRascal, How many times did you hear Orrin say that the purpose of the Team is to “lead people to truth”? I heard that garbage so many times. Any idea to which truth he was referring? I laugh when I think of how glaringly evident it is, that they still haven’t figured out the “truth” even though they profess it.

  66. Rascal Teamster permalink
    June 19, 2013 5:04 pm


    You are a hero in my book, brother. Very happy for you and your girlfriend.

    Take the money you were investing in Life, set it aside and create a wonderful life for yourself. You are FREE!

  67. Melanie Morgan permalink
    June 19, 2013 6:05 pm

    Rascal & Truthseeker-

    Tim Marks is claiming Venkat Verada is a penta power player for this major.

  68. Rascal Teamster permalink
    June 19, 2013 6:28 pm

    I haven’t heard of a Penta since Quixtar, Melanie….maybe once in Monavie, but that would have been when the other groups joined us. I don’t see any way that happened organically.

    Wonder what the system requirements are for PP now? It was still 4 & 2 on system when I left a year ago. At that time, system was only 4 CDs.

    So Tim is saying Venkat went 50 deep in one leg and 25 on the side with 20 new systems on the main leg and 10 on the side?

    Nah, they changed it. Wonder if they dropped the system requirements or just changed the base numbers.

    I’d look for new names no one knows popping up. Gotta believe they slid a group in there….maybe under Chris and Danae Mattis? Venkat’s their upline.

  69. Rascal Teamster permalink
    June 19, 2013 7:31 pm

    Regarding the Penta Power Player….

    This just kind of hit me. When I did not renew in Life in January, team waited for three months and moved my side leg (my last remaining couple) into my taproot. That took place beginning of April. Have we had a major since April 1?

    You don’t suppose that they are counting those moved side legs as “new” numbers for Power Player, do you?

    That would be devilishly easy to do. The move happens automatically. The computer does it. My side leg couple found out from my upline. They weren’t even notified by Team Office of the change, so some might not even know they’ve been moved.

  70. Melanie Morgan permalink
    June 19, 2013 8:31 pm

    Even if they lowed the bar, I highly doubt there is any done organically. No way can you trust a dang thing… How could anyone because they SAY they are honest or Christians?.

    .From experience I can never underestimate their dishonesty and deception..there are plenty of facts. The greatest predictor of their future….IS, their past…and from my perspective they are some of the most dishonest people I know and definetly was thee biggest mistake we made was to trust them. Their word is wothless…means nothing!

    I wish people could see through it, we know they have practiced deception and are masters…but if they would listen CAREFULLY what they say from stage, then compare and read their own P&P, understand the comp plan analysis ( you can find here), read the directors contract and any other rules they cover their butts with and then ask themselves….

    Does it match what they tell you? How do they react when called out or when asked the hard questions or when someone points out blantant conflicting messages etc. Do they avoid, distract, divert, and deny? In that lies the verification. No honest person or business businessavoids, distracts, denys… does any of those things if they are on the up and up

  71. Melanie Morgan permalink
    June 20, 2013 11:03 am

    Who is Vekat Verada? I have seen his name, and highly doubt he is originally in the Marks LOS, anyone know him? Seems like Tim Marks got given a lot of people from the other groups. But tnhen we know other favorites who did also…no rhyme or reason other than they were picked and given to ‘certain’ ones.

    The proof is in the pudding…their touted “earn it, success“..and “level playing field“ like the rest of their empty words….is nothing but horse dung. Every new person ought ask the question of their upline..How many were you “given?“ And they hate socialism?

    Wouldn’t it be an eye opener if the LOS was exposed, then have everyone step forward who are the freebies and “send them back to their upline“ ..original people who “earned it“ and brought them in..

    .How many do you think would be left on the team or even at their rank?!!!

  72. Melanie Morgan permalink
    June 20, 2013 11:05 am

    00ps..Venkat Verada. Is he from the U.S.?

  73. June 20, 2013 12:00 pm

    Venkat Verada lives in Northern California. His team name is Team Koinonia, and his website (hasn’t been updated in awhile) is here: He’s more active on Twitter at:

    The Verada’s and the Mattis’ are some of the higher pin levels on the West Coast.

  74. Rascal Teamster permalink
    June 20, 2013 2:07 pm

    California, Melanie. I seem to remember in Chris and Danae’s story CD, he talks about Venkat as if he’s always been his upline.

    Not sure where Mattis’ are from. They just showed up in Monavie.

  75. Melanie Morgan permalink
    June 20, 2013 3:38 pm

    Thanks Amthrax & Rascal-

    I thought the Mattis were from Randy Haugen? Is that where Mansee is from also (old Amway Emerald or Diamond can’t remember which), haven’t seen any hype on him wonder if he “just faded away“ or “backed off“…..LOL Perhaps like soooo many others they found out who they REALLY are and left like the majority of the other Amway Diamonds….

    Their scoreboard in the relationship department sucks, has to be in the multiple tens of thousands who quit. Well, usually when you are in “business“…you expect to make money..not go into debt andnever make a profit….that could have something to do with themasses that quit along with the taxed relationship they get in between.

    I have spoken to too many people that see through and experienced their destruction and division…. Pastors, church families, spouses, siblings, cousins, and friends anyone out side ( just like cults), the lifers don’t etheir speak to them anymore or have shunned them and created such a division, it is shameful.

    Sidenote: Looks to me like California has some tiny numbers. 🙂

  76. P.J. permalink
    June 22, 2013 12:55 pm

    Good for you, James. She’s a keeper.

  77. noteam permalink
    June 22, 2013 4:59 pm

    Melanie – Chris & Dana Mattis are downline from Roger Sitzler who was a downline Diamond of Jim & Margee Floor (INA organization) in the old Amway business. Roger is another example of how Orrin had a double-standard (it was okay for him to cross-line and steal the business from other organizations. But boy, once you’re in Orrin’s group, you better not ever talk to anyone in another organization.)

  78. Melanie Morgan permalink
    June 22, 2013 8:15 pm


    Thanks for that, so he didn’t “earn it”…but yet raking in the cash (all that matters) off their group, counting that in their “ranking”…Fair? What a Joke..and oh boy….do we know the double standards that orrin lives by!

    Bo Short…ANOTHER example of what Orrin (Qrush) will do to those who he thinks was trying to “recruit” others out of the Team! But he did that all day long…What about Scott Larsen, Randy Haugen, Billy Florence, The Peters, Us and on and on and on….

    What happens when the shoe is on the other foot for Orrin or someone does what he has does to him?…well it is in HOW he and his yes-men treat others behind the scenes…threats, remove whole legs and their profit-sharing,from those who earned it and brought those leaders in, stop paying passive residual, on-going willable, pipeline income! Create smear campaigns…slander and sue others etc.

    Definitely shows his true colors when he thinks someone else would stand up to him, claim their team or their shenanigans and especially if it he thinks they would make them honor their (worthless) word and commitment he made to so many….Man of Integrity?…not even close.

  79. BeenThere permalink
    June 24, 2013 11:11 am

    It sounds like many of those leaving comments seem to think that Bill & Jann are victims of Orrin Woodward. Don’t be fooled, Bill found a ‘soul-mate’ in Orrin, he was not so much recruited but more like found someone who had the same willingness to do whatever it takes to get the task done. Before you Lifer’s think that is a compliment let me explain. I’ve seen first hand how Bill, Jann, Cody and Jennifer were willing to lie to throw suspicion and doubt on someone else rather than bear the weight of their own mis-deeds. It is my opinion that Bill and Jann are good christian people and that lasts until they leave the church on Sunday or have business dealings. If you are involved with Newton’s, God help you.

  80. Freedomhaha permalink
    June 24, 2013 1:27 pm

    BeenThere- God help anyone that is involved in TEAM LIFE. Seriously, I pray for everyone involved in this horrible cult of a scam everyday.

  81. Bob Robertson permalink
    June 24, 2013 7:42 pm

    I feel Bill & Jann Newton deserve whats coming to them they have hurt a lot of families for there own profit and gain. There walk is as cheap as there talk. Maybe now they will understand the hurt they put on so many others. It does in fact show and prove that the AMWAY is the way. I put my future in safe hands with Amway. Its nice to know we are right and I did choose the right path for my family. Thank you to my honest upline & support team. The future looks great.

  82. June 24, 2013 8:07 pm

    @Bob – I don’t think it proves Amway is the way at all.

    One thing I would like more information on is this: If Amway dropped its lawsuit against Orrin/MonaVie (and vice versa), why they didn’t do the same with the Newtons (and who knows who else)? And, if Orrin knew about the financial situation of the Newtons, why didn’t he step in to help? Unless, he thought having them file for bankruptcy was the right thing to do?

  83. noteam permalink
    June 24, 2013 8:21 pm

    Isn’t it a bit odd that the new tool released in Ohio last weekend was some new Financial Pack complete with CD’s & a workbook for a Financial Fitness Challenge? What happened to checking the fruit on the tree?

    This group has now had 4 of the biggest leaders ever (Darkangelo, Huber, Newton, Cullen) declare bankruptcty and Guzzardo doing his ‘strategic default’ and yet they are offering financial advice? YIKES!!!!!

    All in all, I’d be surprised if there were less than 1,000 total bankruptcies caused by all the debt everyone racked up because of these jokers.

    Bob Robertson – I hope you are a legitimate person and not another attempt by Tim Marks and crew to put in fake posts so everyone in Team/LIFE will say “see, I told you that site was a bunch of Amway people who are still made about Orrin leaving”.

  84. Rascal Teamster permalink
    June 25, 2013 3:21 am

    I saw the email release for the Financial Fitness Pack yesterday. Tim Marks is the mentor to three of the bankrupt four.

    Might he have a CD in this pack? Oh, that would make me wet myself. Does anyone know if that is so?

  85. beenthere permalink
    June 26, 2013 2:32 pm

    Hello Amthrax, You must be using Bing instead of Google to search the web for information. Amway didn’t drop their lawsuit against Woodward because Woodward didn’t drop theirs and that left Amway in a position to defend itself. Woodwards lost and I thought I read they had to pay a total of 26 million in damages. Newton’s filed their original lawsuit in Texas, dropped it and re-filed in Kansas. Amway was forced to mount a affirmative defense. The ‘authorized’ bloggers will have you believe arbitration was ruled against but they only report the small or regional courts opinion without telling you about the final state courts ruling. So Team and their amoral leaders decide they can make more money using the IP (intellectual property) of others and prepare a lawsuit as a threat to force Amway to allow them steal the IP.

    Does that sound like a group that was working cooperatively and was suddenly forced out? Sounds like a soul-less bully to me.

    So you think Woodwards and Newtons foot the bill for their legal defense, not so. Team had a legal defense fund (with a LOT of help from Monavie) and Newton’s created one of their own using the reputation of a good but mis-lead man in the person of a former Judge, Keith Anderson. With this bankruptcy, I wonder if Newton’s attorney ever got a penny from the fund or did they use it to prop up their failing financial plan.

    Jann used to report to their group that their house was totally paid off while at the same time reporting to their upline that they had paid off a room at a time, hmmm. So I wonder, which of their businesses was the legal defense fund. I wonder how Bill & Jann and the group they stole became Mona-vie distributors and then Life members but the business is now Cody’s and Bill is just a paid consultant.

    I’m with Bob, they have not yet been held accountable and in his defense with the changes to the Amway business in the last 6 years. If I start a business, agree to follow a code of conduct that means I can sell any product I want to any person I choose while only telling the truth, never representing products as anything but what they were designed to do, I’m required to not have a criminal record and offer a satisfaction gaurantee. If that is wrong then we need to shut down all business in this country and create something else because socialism failed and we’ve deemed those who try to always to the right thing MUST be up to no good.

    What Amway is guilty of is creating a environment that was no longer a place where so-called leaders like Woodward and Newton could apologize for their bad behavior and promise never to do it again and then go right back to the same behaviour damaging the reputation of all those who were following the rules.

    [Editor’s note: Added paragraphs for easier reading]

  86. June 26, 2013 2:39 pm

    @beenthere – Judge Keith Anderson appears to have passed away, and there is an estimated $100,000 legal bill listed as unsecured priority claims from his estate in the Newton’s bankruptcy documents.

  87. Melanie Morgan permalink
    June 26, 2013 7:53 pm


    Thanks for sharing it is clear you know the Newtons and they are a perfect fit with the PC…like attracts like.

  88. P.J. permalink
    June 27, 2013 2:32 pm

    Beenthere, that’s some serious inside baseball. Are you a long-time Amway business owner? Just curious.

  89. Beenthere permalink
    June 27, 2013 7:15 pm

    @amthrax yes, Keith has passed and he was Newtons lawyer. But he was not the lawyer for them for the long haul. Keith was a distributor in Newtons business and it was a common thing for those in Newtons group to provide services in their respective fields. It is my guess Keith did the initial leg work and for the final act Newtons convinced a lawyer they had a case worth millions and they ended up working the case on a contingency basis.
    @p.j. Been in awhile and I am very aware of the various rules the Amway has for the operation of a business.

  90. Beenthere permalink
    June 27, 2013 7:30 pm

    @amthrax. One thing I missed. My theory is Newtons listed Keith as a liability because it helps them paint a bleaker picture. Why is it an estimated 100,000. Wouldn’t a lawyer have a contract with a client with a definitive amount? Wouldn’t he have billed them which would give them a definitive amount?

  91. June 27, 2013 7:41 pm

    @Beenthere – Just repeating what was written in the documents. There are three columns. One for the creditor’s name. The second box is “Date claim was incurred and consideration for claim. If claim is subject to setoff, so state.” That box says “$100,000 est.” The third column is the claim amount, and it says 100,000.

  92. Kalida permalink
    February 17, 2015 8:53 am

    The Newtons have been practicing dishonesty for many, many years.

  93. Nick permalink
    February 25, 2015 1:15 pm

    Their expenses exceeded their income. Generally a bad thing to do, regardless of how much money you make


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