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TEAM/LIFE Summer Conference 2013

June 17, 2013

Summer Conference for LIFE and TEAM (also known as LIFE Training) will be held this week from June 20 to June 23, 2013. Members will be descending upon the Nationwide Arena in Columbus, Ohio to hear from the eight Policy Council members: Chris & Terri Brady, George & Jill Guzzardo, Claude & Lana Hamilton, Dan & Lisa Hawkins, Bill & Jackie Lewis, Wayne & Raylene MacNamara, Tim & Amy Marks, and Orrin & Laurie Woodward. The guest speaker will be Oliver DeMille.

There are four things that I would like to talk about, three of which will no doubt be discussed at Summer Conference. They will try to sweep the fourth under the rug.


On June 1, LIFE released its first Income Disclosure Statement (IDS). A extensively researched and detailed analysis of the IDS can be found on this website, and it’s not looking good for the LIFE Business. From the analysis:

Student 6000s and above get 78% of the total payout. Out of that group, Leaders and above take 53% of the total payout. Leaders and above make up 99% of the average monthly income per person in LIFE. Yet, Student 6000s and above make up just 3% of the total number of members in all of LIFE. Leaders and above make up a minuscule 0.35%!

Here is that same information in graphical form. Pay close attention to the ratio of members per rank versus payout per rank:

Those at the top of the LIFE organization make the majority of the income.

Those at the top of the LIFE organization make the majority of the income.

At Summer Conference, LIFE leaders will try to spin the numbers with a positive slant. As hard as it may be for LIFE members, they should not take what is said at face value. Members should take the time to really understand the figures in the IDS. If they are bad at math, they should find someone (preferably outside the business) who is more mathematically inclined and can walk them through the numbers.

Read the rest of the analysis post for all the details on the LIFE IDS.

Takeaway Question for TEAM/LIFE Members: Do I really understand the IDS and my chances for success in LIFE?

Oliver DeMille

The guest speaker for the Leadership Convention will be, Oliver DeMille, Orrin’s co-author on Leadershift. DeMille has recently been the subject of several comments here on this blog. In marketing for the book and on the jacket cover, DeMille is listed as a founder of a college and a “two-time recipient of the Gold Honor Medal from the Freedoms Foundation at Valley Forge.” A reader contacted the organization and learned that no such medal exists. Brent Hansen corresponded with DeMille himself who “looked into it” and revealed two things:

  1. The medal is actually called the George Washington Honor Medal.
  2. DeMille was awarded the medal(s) some twenty plus years ago for papers he subumitted as an Air Force ROTC student in college.

Historically, the George Washington Honor Medal has been awarded in conjunction with the Boy Scouts of America (as far back as 1952) and is also issued independently across the nation in broad categories such as Youth Essay/Speech, Schools Entry, Community Entry, Public Communications, Military Essay, etc. To be considered for the award1, all one has to do is submit a 500-1000 word essay on the assigned topic. The theme for 2013 is “What the American Flag Means to Me and Why?”

Gold Honor Medal sounds to me like a combination of two legitimate, prestigious, and rare awards: the Congressional Gold Medal (highest-civilian award) of Medal of Honor (highest military award). I hope that all websites (and subsequent book editions) mentioning the DeMille’s “Gold Honor Medal” are updated to reflect the true name of the award — the George Washington Honor Medal — from the Freedoms Foundation at Valley Forge.

As for the college which he helped found, a third reader pointed out that George Wythe University has severed all ties with DeMille. From the GWU Newsroom back in October, 2012:

Lessons in Accountability and Integrity

It is the opinion of this board that the public should be safeguarded from the kind of mismanagement, deception and irresponsibility that the school previously suffered under DeMille and Brooks. We condemn their actions in the strongest terms and without reservation. The board stands with all who prize accountability and transparency in higher education, especially leaders who steadfastly honor the sacred trust of others and refuse to take shortcuts when pursuing their goals.

The whole article is worth the time to read, as it lays out in painstaking detail the transgressions by DeMille that ultimately led to his departure. Among these was the awarding of entire Ph.D degrees for no coursework, actions that required revocation by the Board.

Takeaway Question for TEAM/LIFE Members: How important is it to know the history and background of the people I’m listening to, mentoring from, and working with in the LIFE business?


Leadershift, co-authored by Woodward and DeMille, did make New York Times Best Seller list for two weeks. This time period coincided with the first two weeks of the book’s release. The first week’s appearance was primarily due to the large number of pre-orders taken in the months leading up to the book release. On the second week, Orrin Woodward went on a book signing tour to key TEAM/LIFE strongholds across the country. Both had the † dagger symbol next to the entry, which indicates bulk order purchases2.

Orrin and others recently finished a second book signing tour, and it remains to be seen if Leadershift will make the list for a third time. It does not appear on the most recent NY Times Best Seller list (June 16, 2013) for the Advice, How-To & Miscellaneous category.

On Amazon and other book review sites, Leadershift has been getting glowing five-star reviews. Longtime readers of this blog will know that this organization has a history of Google-bombing with comments, blog posts, and social media mentions. After one filters out those comments from obvious TEAM/LIFE members, one can read the reviews from people who came across the book randomly (or as a result of seeing it on one of the best seller lists). Two choice excerpts:

A simplistic waist [sic] of time.

I can’t understand how all the reviews for this book are glowing 5 star reviews, unless they are friends of the authors or true believers in the proposals outlined in this simplistic narrative.


This could be this year’s winner for Worst Book

I really don’t want to discourage you from reading this book, if like me you treasure the abysmally bad as humorous and as rare as the truly great.

This book is written by two business success hacks. They refer to people like Steven Covey and other pulp business gurus like they are Nobel prize winners. The number of 5 laws of success, 10 laws of leadership, 14 laws of vision, 27 laws of team-build is amazing. It is a compendium of empty business book nonsense. There is absolutely no analysis just pablum of slogans and stilted conversations and meetings between the team. We are working for FREEDOM. Though we don’t really talk about what FREEDOM means.

Takeaway Question for TEAM/LIFE Members: Is the success of Leadershift the result of organic growth in the marketplace or the result of bulk-order purchases by members within TEAM/LIFE itself? Are there significant numbers of people outside of TEAM/LIFE who are reading this book?

Bankruptcy of TEAM Quad Turbo 100

Last month, TEAM Quad Turbo 100’s Bill and Jann Newton filed for Chapter 7 bankruptcy. They had been the primary speakers at several Open and Monthly Seminars — promoting the LIFE business as a means for financial success — just weeks prior to filing.

The Newton’s son and daughter-in-law, Cody and Tara Newton, are Round Table members in TEAM. RT and above members have an exclusive meeting on Thursday, June 20th. I hope for two things that evening. First, I hope the other RT members express some sympathy at the financial plight of Bill and Jann. Declaring bankruptcy does not sound like fun event. Second, and more importantly, RT members should ask tough questions to their upline regarding profitability potential and accountability in the business. How can someone going through financial difficulty be allow to speak at Open Seminars and Monthly Opens? How long have the high-level leaders, such as Tim Marks and Orrin Woodward, known about the Newton’s problems?

Takeaway Question for TEAM/LIFE Members: Are there other examples of high-ranking TEAM/LIFE leaders who are experiencing financial difficulties as a result of building this business that we don’t know about?

If Leadershift calls for Americans to “finally stand up and lead,” LIFE Members should heed the that advice and do the same for their leaders. Orrin Woodward and company don’t get a free pass because they are the founders of LIFE, and LIFE Members shouldn’t give them one.

Readers – what do you expect to hear at the Summer Leadership Convention? What do you want to see come out of the event?

1 Some of the essays have restrictions. The Military Essay requires the applicant to be in “the Armed Forces on active or reserve duty and members of the National Guard, ROTC and JROTC components.” Another is open only to youths. See the Freedoms Foundation website for more details.

2 I wonder how many copies of Leadershift the average LIFE member owns. Will they be encouraged to buy another copy when the paperback edition arrives in a few months?

77 Comments leave one →
  1. ageofwisdom51 permalink
    June 17, 2013 7:32 am

    Amthrax: this is good work and I wonder what will really happen at the conference regarding the Leadershift book. (I put this post here because you mentioned it above) Truly glad to see that when I brought up DeMille and the OW association last fall, that you guys have persisted and uncovered even more.

    If you go over to Amazon and read some of those who left such glowing reports on the book, ‘Leadershift’ and of course, in the short bios, that so-called medal is mentioned, too, technically, One can see commenters like DH, who does not even show a bonafide purchase of the book. Other comments by, of course, TM and CB, too. Of the 160. 5-star comments on Amazon regarding this publication, I wonder if most could be tied to the LIFE biz membership. You guys should go read one of the 2-star extensive reviews of this publication over on Amazon…it’s by a poster named “sunnyb” on 6/12/13, and it’s in-depth.

    Example: sunnyb stated (in this reader’s disappointment in the lack of development of ideas and character development in the book, etc.): “After finishing the book I went back through it and wrote them all down and put them into a spreadsheet to see how many there actually were: 78 different people, 31 different books, 26 unique ideas that can be attributed to someone, and 32 historic events, people or places. A total of 167 references and there were only 188 pages in the book”

    [Editor’s note: Here’s the link to sunnyb’s review of Leadershift on Amazon]

  2. June 17, 2013 7:43 am

    This is amazing. Such awesome background work, way to go in-depth and uncover real truth! Great work Amthrax and readers!!

  3. loveofeden permalink
    June 17, 2013 7:45 am

    Glad I’m not attending this cult of wacko’s. When I saw my friend spend $600.00 to make a lousy $7.50 in 3 months what a joke that was. They call themselves a family business. Why do you always have to go to meetings and miss your children? Or miss their birthdays?? I think that is wrong. Since when does money rule over our families?? Money isn’t about everything. I am living below $20.000 dollars and you know what I’m employed living with my children and managing to live a furfilling life without lies and betrayal.God has giving me strength for the past 4 years of my life. And I wouldn’t change anything. Being a single parent and doing double duty everyday, this is my life.

    This business has made a person for whom I didn’t want to be.

    Greedy for money and for pursuing people to come to these opens which sounded so boring to me after a while. I ask one of my upline is they likes a specific music and he responded to me that he only listend to audio Cds from the business. That just blew me away!!! Why change to listen to this people and you don’t even know if they’re telling the truth. I’m not changing to be someone I don’t want to be and lose all of my friends because I don’t “fit” in.

    I had a huge “gut” feeling about this it felt fake and wrong. I decided to listen to my “gut” and quit.

  4. June 17, 2013 7:49 am

    @ageofwisdom – yes, I did read that review. @sunnyb did a good job combing through the book and tabulating those statistics. Orrin does have a tendency to quote rather liberally from other sources (see his blog for another example).

  5. MinitureGiantSpaceHamster permalink
    June 17, 2013 9:55 am

    @sunnyb’s Amazon review:

    “Another annoyance was that this books’s subtitle feels unsuited to its content. It’s titled: “A Call for Americans to Finally Stand Up and Lead.” And what it really should be is: “A Call for Business Leaders to Finally Stand Up and Lead.” Within the book, one character says, “What we really want are Creators – business leaders who will put freedom and leadership first. This really matters.” The book is written to wealthy business owners. Those are the people who can relate to it and answer the call. I’m not sure if the intent of the book was to reach the heart of the average American, but if it was, then it was a magnificient fail because the average American doesn’t talk about their $95,000 watch purchase. The average American isn’t making use of their meditative moments in one of their many small pavilions on their expansive estate. The average American isn’t taking weekend getaways with like-minded individuals at ski resorts and basking in hot tubs while discussing freedom ideas. The average American isn’t a self-made billionaire in the oil industry and investor on Wall Street, or a top CEO of a successful turnaround company. The average American isn’t going to relate to this book at all because it’s not about them. As I was reading, there was something bothering me about it. Just as I was able to formulate my thoughts on what that was: (the whole wealthy elitist feel to it) I had to laugh at the irony that the characters began discussing elitism and its ability to shut down their success. This book just didn’t feel like a call to me: an average American mom, to stand up and lead. I didn’t feel one moment of inspiation while reading it, and believe me, I was looking for it!”

    I am going to assume this Leadershift book flaunts things like a “$95,000 watch purchase”. If so I find that very interesting. Recently I checked out “The Millionaire Next Door” from the library. As anyone who has been in LIFE knows this is one of their top recommended books. Ironically what sunnyb describes goes completely against the definition of a self-made millionaire in TMND. For me it was the same deal with “The Richest Man in Babylon”, another third party book pushed by LIFE. What I saw in LIFE simply didn’t match with what I read.

    Here’s a recommendation to anyone just being introduced to LIFE. Go to the library and check out The Millionaire Next Door and read it. Then ask yourself if the massive mansions, expensive clothes, and the high consumption lifestyle flaunted by the Woodward’s and the other PC’s aligns with the message book conveys.

  6. Freedomhaha permalink
    June 17, 2013 12:52 pm

    Ageofwisdom- Glad you to have you back! You have done excellent work here in the past.

  7. Mike permalink
    June 17, 2013 3:47 pm

    I could tell so much about TEAM and how they operate but I don’t have the time right now. I can tell you that nobody that I know of above me listened to the tapes or did what they said. Got to give Orrin credit the man has scamed a lot of people for a long time.

  8. June 17, 2013 4:04 pm

    @Mike – When you do have the time, we would like to hear (and verify) some of your stories.

  9. Freedomhaha permalink
    June 17, 2013 4:32 pm

    Mike- Those stories could potentially save lives. I second Amthrax in hoping that you will share when you have time.

  10. P.J. permalink
    June 17, 2013 9:34 pm

    Here’s what to expect from the major:

    1. Honest, straightforward, you’ll-only-hear-once-in-a-lifetime talks on integrity from people who “walk the walk”

    2. Low-cost accommodations & concessions to help keep the members’ costs down

    3. Low-cost, never-been-heard-before CDs & tools to help the members succeed after the convention

    4. Sensible meeting schedule with each talk/meeting providing focused content (in the rare event that an extra meeting is necessary, your RT upline will provide pizza or some sort of refreshments at no cost to you & make sure you get to bed at a decent time)

    5. Orrin’s rich baritone voice comforting that little voice in your head that screams “I spent $1200 for this trip & can’t write hardly any of it off on my taxes”

    6. Jill Guzzardo giving a note-for-note performance of Barry White’s “Can’t Get Enough Of Your Love” right before George Guzzardo & Orrin bring the house down with their ventriloquist act (you’ll never guess who the dummy is)

    7. Comfortable seating with plenty of room (as long as you are under 5’5″ and 160 lb) and clear audio

    8. No “why in the Sam Hill is this infomercial male model here trying to sell me a weight loss package?”, out-of-place, contractually-obligated product pitches

    9. An epic Power Player Top Gun fight to the finish between Claude Skywalker & Darth Marks in front of Emperor Woodward seated on a throne of out-of-date (2 months old) first night packs

    I can’t promise that it’ll be easy to sit through whole convention, but I can promise it’s not worth it.

  11. Chrisxrascal permalink
    June 18, 2013 12:21 am

    Actually reading the ” Leadershift ” book now. I wanted to see why leaders on team were so hyped about it.and who the book was geared for. I found the review up above correct. The book is for business leaders and not written to the ” average ” American. It really perturbs me that it’ s solely focused on elite business leaders. He goes against the elite, yet his idea is leaders in the elite can only reverse the decline in America. The book was also written in a story format, which didn’t work for me at all. I do believe we need good leaders to step up in our society, but I don’t believe that the elite 10 % is the answer. So far I’ve only read a couple chapters, but I’m not impressed so far.

  12. noteam permalink
    June 20, 2013 8:56 pm

    Ahhhh, the lies are already coming out of Ohio. “Over 200 people making a six figure income in only 18 months of Life”.

    Seriously doubt 200 people are making 6 figures. But even if they are, I’d be willing to bet over 150 of those were actually a part of Amway/Quixtar and have actually been with the group for 10 years or more – NOT 18 months as they try to imply.

  13. P.J. permalink
    June 20, 2013 10:37 pm

    Take the most conservative assumption & say they all make exactly 100k. That’s 20 million dollars paid out to just 200 people. With the income info that they’ve listed, that doesn’t sound right.

  14. June 21, 2013 5:41 am

    Our analysis of the IDS showed about 249 qualified members at the Leader level and above. 100K/year would mean $8,333/month. They may be counting TEAM income in that quote, @noteam. If so, it’s plausible that there are 200 members earning that much, although that also means there are 70,000+ who are not, which the majority of them probably losing money after expenses each month.

  15. June 21, 2013 7:35 am

    Does anyone know what happened to Doug & Sheri Stroh?

  16. Melanie Morgan permalink
    June 21, 2013 10:28 am

    Amthrax & Noteam-

    I agree they would be counting the (voted-in only) team income, no way are they making that from the LIfE side only…and @noteam pointed out…never gonna buy that ‘story’.. 18 months!

    Although sadly it ‘sounds’ good & enticing to the unsuspecting and uninformed, there is not a doubt in my mind it’s misleading.

    It may sound good but it isn’t the full story, or reality of it….and that isn’t squat when you factor in your exspences! Fact; you have to SPEND $600 bucks a month monthjust to pay-to-get-paid…. not to mention the other thousands in tools, travel, seminars, majors majorsand other exspenses!

    The more they claim changes…the more it stays the same…same ole losing proposition for the masses in their so-called, “business opportunity!“

    My advice: STAY HOME, you will be money ahead!!

  17. Melanie Morgan permalink
    June 21, 2013 10:32 am


    Great question! I heard they are ding well in their ‘other’ business and good for them, no doubt they seen the writting on the wall a long time ago, otherwise why have another business? Guess the fakers can’ t fake everyone out!

  18. Melanie Morgan permalink
    June 21, 2013 10:47 am

    I do hope the Stroh’s do the right thing and if they aren’t gone, get out so their team will see the truth! At least then many more won’t be stuck losing and being mislead!

  19. noteam permalink
    June 22, 2013 10:13 am

    Has anyone seen any pictures posted from Columbus yet? I usually see bunches of them passed around on Facebook but having seen any yet.

  20. June 22, 2013 12:48 pm

    There have been a few on Twitter:

  21. Rascal Teamster permalink
    June 22, 2013 2:20 pm

    Tim Jarvinen posted this one to Twitter.

    @TimJarvinen: Packing out Nationwide Arena! LIFE is good!

  22. P.J. permalink
    June 22, 2013 2:56 pm

    8,000 on Friday night is not impressive but let’s say that there are 10,000 people there. I thought this thing was exploding? More like fizzling.

  23. June 23, 2013 7:14 am

    FYI: At the conference, Curtis and Debbie Spolar, and Holger and Lindsey Spiewak were named new Policy Council members in TEAM.

  24. Rascal Teamster permalink
    June 23, 2013 8:37 am

    Does anyone know how many times Power Player they went, or what the new requirements are? System count can’t be included anymore. Not with what I see I’m my former group. No growth. No Twitter enthusiasm. I don’t hear anything about growth.

    What gives?

  25. Melanie Morgan permalink
    June 23, 2013 11:15 am

    Policy Council? Is that even a rank in LIfE, and what is qualification and pay for that rank?

  26. Rascal Teamster permalink
    June 23, 2013 12:03 pm

    Melanie, I do believe that I am not finding Policy Council anywhere on their Income Disclosure Statement. This is a LIFE convention, isn’t it?

    Why on Earth are they still recognizing ranks on stage from their “old” Team System tool business? Why no BIG Life recognition?

    How in the world do you make money in this business if they aren’t growing Life ranks? What is this Directorship I keep hearing about, and why can’t I find any documentation about it on their website? Is this some kind of a CD tool business pyramid wrapped in an MLM enshrouded by bizzare rank advancement and recognition? I’m a little confused!?!

    I say that tongue in cheek, of course. Ya know, one thing I felt very thankful for this weekend was not having to try to explain to a new guy crazy ranks and pin recognition for levels I couldn’t explain….much less document.

    So they recognized a couple new Policy Council members this weekend, eh? Man, could someone please explain how to reach that to my new guy. I’m longer playing this game!

  27. ItsaPauling permalink
    June 23, 2013 2:56 pm

    That stadium holds about 20 thousand, if I remember correctly. Looks like it has the stage pushed about halfway up.

  28. Melanie Morgan permalink
    June 23, 2013 4:00 pm


    Confused? Haha…yep…Making things confusing or convoluted..would be one of the halmarks of the MLM gamesters, or any greddy scammers…that rely on secrecy and lies to survive! It is done ‘intentionally’ they have to keep a lot hidden, especially critical information.long enough or until others feel trapped….((red flag)….how do you trust intentional undisclosed critical-to-business-success information?

    They couldn’t have others easily understanding all the facts or pertinate information to aid in making sound finacial biusiness dcisions, they wouldn’t have anyone get recruited un, and they know this!

    What would happen if they were honest… with everything from the start…and told the truth that they are far from fair, would if they would hold to their word or what about the lie…its a “level playing field for everyone“ …isn’t it sad…they wouldn’t survive…just think if they informed the masses they are guaranteed to lose money along with the majority they bring in?!

    Only if you pass the loyality test and they find favor (you are just like them, yikes!) Or whatever measuring they use to determine you are worthy of a pittance or will be allowed into the elitist liars circle, then you might get paid for “doing the work“….what bout disclosing those ‘special deals’ and freebie teams dished out to a few favorites or the odds of hitting that mystery level PC(policy council), think them (dis)honesty, “Christians“ share that from all stages &on cd’s?!

    Too many more would quit before that got started if they had an honest bone in their body…makes me question if they have a conscience at all!

    No need to fear, (for the uninformed)… Amthrax is here, haha! We can help, too! They really ought send Amthrax and all on here some big checks for helping them inform others! Geez, such a thankless job! 🙂

  29. noteam permalink
    June 23, 2013 5:05 pm

    Rascal & Melanie – I agree – How can they be recognizing PC & Directors? Apparently the real money is still in the secret tool business. I can’t believe all those people in that arena still don’t see it. Wake up people!!!!! PC is not a part of the LIFE business. Everyone in LIFE is just being used in an attempt to hide the real source of income for these scammers.

  30. The Truth Hurts permalink
    July 1, 2013 2:48 pm

    Well here they go again. I am sure Columbus Ohio was quite the event. Thinking back, I am emailing to share memories. However, these memories do not color or light up the pages of my Life, I guarantee it.

    I remember going to my first Convention, a Major. Afterwards, I asked for a refund. I was told that seeing that I left before the wee hours of the morning, I was not entitled to my refund. I wish I had quit then, but, I drank too many CD’s/Tapes after that and was in-cultinated. The Adams dysfunctional Family had their grip on me.

    I then listened to spiel after spiel about “Don’t miss this Major coming up, as if you do you may set your business behind in a big way. This information is vital”. Again I bought into it, I went, and honestly I thought something must be wrong with me. I knew watching paint dry would have been far more entertaining. I watched people go across stage touted as big Leaders with a nice income..but I knew some of those same people had enrolled in Medicaid Insurance due to low income. I was already successful in business, so I couldn’t get a grip on what was up here..I didn’t realize at the time that Cult type tactics already had me in their grip.

    I can honestly say that to the very end I could never understand what everyone got so “fired up” about at the Seminars. They were exhausting. I could not see the value in them. Sure they said they were to build my Team, but couldn’t we have built it in a less expensive fashion? What about meetings in our homes? Well, the plain ugly unvarnished truth is meetings in homes don’t get ticket sale money to the up-line, not to mention getting people pumped with vulgar displays of greed, keeping them exhausted, then herding them like witless cattle into the Tool Room. Wow, see, I did learn something; What not to do to take advantage of your fellow human beings 101, and how not to be a Tool Tramp.

    When I look back at the “business” now, I have to laugh. What exactly was the “business”? A self consumption model..hmmm. A business where people had to dress a certain way, buy certain things, go to see the Plan on Tuesdays until you could say it in your sleep, but spend your money on admittance anyways…why? How did this move your “business” forward on Tuesdays? I can remember when only cash or check was taken as payment in the Tool Room. What happened, how did credit cards start as a form of payment? Was cash no longer available from the masses?

    I remember hearing of contests to compete for one of the Leaders to be at a meeting with us. Who ever the winner was could pick up this Leader and drive him to the Meeting. Now seriously, think about this..can’t the Leader drive himself? After all, think of the Boat Load of money you all shelled out, and this “Leader” thinks you should pick him up? Nuts!

    Do I miss fake people, being required to act and dress a certain way, talking to people and wondering if they ever had a chance of making any money, calculating the bundles of cash being raked in by the “Leaders”..I think NOT.

    Free at last, thank God Almighty I am free at Last.

    And another thing (I am on a roll now) I will ask again, what is the BUSINESS? If I want Life changing information, I would do research, use the Internet, get books from the Library, etc. If I wanted COMMUNITY, I would be around friends and Family who care about me as much as I care about them. If one of them needed help, I can’t imagine charging them for readily available information..can you?

    The above is based upon my experiences and of course, my learned opinion.

  31. fastfruit2oo9 permalink
    July 11, 2013 4:30 am

    The Truth Hurts – You are very articulate. There is little to add, and you experience I concur.
    At one Major, “J.Welch” was the star attraction, when you got there it was announced. whoops – Jack was busy. Another Major has PZP – he was allowed on stage VERY late Sat. PM, so conveniently to see him later you had to buy the next Major ticket… and by the way – when I buy a ticket and the time on THAT ticket says event is say 5PM to 11PM, that means I have bought a ticket for those 6 hours – as soon as you are in you are told you need to leave at 9PM or buy another ticket for the next monthly “seminar”. NICE GAME.
    My time was during the Monavie craze, and I kept wondering… after hearing “We want you to do great and succeed and sell more and we all make pipeline (pipedream) income”.. “so take the info and run”.. well then even back in those days one of the PC stated he would immediately transfer the latest CD onto his iPOD and his wife’s iPOD (can you say that would be THREE COPIES FOR THE PRICE OF ONE)… no wonder he was and still is an upstanding member of the PC! – my suggestion is to do the same for a whole T E A M!

  32. Deb permalink
    January 9, 2015 8:56 pm

    Birds of a feather. Watch out for the whole LIFE group. I heard some major charges are following a few of them. Profess to be Christian but trick thy children and Hell will rain on them all.

  33. January 10, 2015 8:32 am

    @Deb – Can you elaborate on your comment regarding “major charges are following a few of them” ?

  34. Melanie Morgan permalink
    January 10, 2015 9:36 am


    I too would like to understand more about what you are referring to, could prove to be more than interesting.

  35. freedomhaha permalink
    January 11, 2015 4:46 pm

    Do we have any idea of the current growth of LIFE? I have noticed we haven’t had a LIFEer high off their first seminar drop by the blog in awhile.

  36. Melanie Morgan permalink
    January 26, 2015 8:17 pm

    I thought I would share this hilarious account from someone who attended an Herbalife training but.. ( insert your MLM, I am 100 percent confident you’ll recognize the process) and at the same time, you might recognize the unfortunate indoctrination process of how and what happens to you and how they set up a person to be trapped from a typical MLM monthly “training seminars”….

    And for all you “members” and newbies who information is intentionally being withheld, (don’t fall for the hype either), strategically manipulated, thus convinced you have the BEST business, smartest gurus, (that are so honest) and products and are so different than the rest of the mlm world ….and you have been mislead on the idea it is “your business” .. wink, wink….hahaha, been unduly influenced (manipulated) to believing your gonna make boat loads of money, or even replace your income, or falsely believe (because you are manipulated on emotion & the group pressure/ think) that you too WILL get/have what they HAVE, (the lifestyle, money, etc)…don’t fall for the lies.

    That is only for the TOP 4 or 5 guys that you will come to (sadly and dangerously), worship, follow, trust and never question…warning… (big huge, mistake)!

    I challenge you the link and let us know what the significant “difference” is in your training seminars than gerbaliefs lol,…or rather Herbalife?

    Here’s the point, if I were you, use your gut and common sense…start asking some hard questions. I would do some serious research, ask the hard questions of yourself, (after you find out what are the hard core facts of who really makes any $$).. think about what you are being taught….your own “practices”, is it ethical, moral…do you just follow, and then finally you have to be brutally honest with yourself.

    Lets say you are honest with yourself and you see ‘your mlm’ “practicing” the same as Herbalife., then A good question to ask yourself, WHY would some States Attorney Generals, FTC, SEC, and I believe the FBI would be doing a current investigation into Herbalife ‘business’ and how are we different? Makes good business sense to find out and get all your questions answered before you sell your life away.

  37. Melanie Morgan permalink
    January 26, 2015 8:25 pm

    link: …Herbalife Hurricane

  38. January 27, 2015 9:21 am

    Melanie – That was a good read on Salty Droid; yup, after you’ve attended one MLM event, you’ve attended them all. Would be great if he were to attend a TEAM/LIFE and posted a review of what he experienced like he did at the Herbalife meeting.

  39. Melanie Morgan permalink
    January 28, 2015 7:18 pm

    That would be great Amthrax, but hell would have to pretty much freeze over. Not just anyone, especially an outsider, is likely going to get in their seminars. The Team PC, are way to paranoid to allow someone in like him.

    I thought it Pretty miraculous he got in the Herbalife one. Found it really funny the “Doctor” (Chiropractor) he talks about sitting next, asked him if he was a reporter. haha but sure didn’t stop him from trying to recruit him in, ( recruit, recruit, recruit). I found it very funny, at the same time shows how desperate they will always be in ‘needing’ new recruits to churn. I was thinking Herbalife must not be as paranoid,…very surprising to me, you would think they would be on RED ALTER about now. 🙂 So, not sure how salty droid pulled it off, but I loved it that he did and his testimony of the experince.

    I challenge him to attend a LIFE event..Ha!.

    I wish he would give it a shot and write up his findings!

    I remember when the Team/Office/PC had their HIGHEST RED ALERT game on.. (sure they still do), have their little spy’s and hound dogs out but during a major there was paranoia in the air and they sniffed out someone(s) they thought was suspicious, This was at the time when Amway was watching them, of course we didn’t know why because Orrin said Amway loved team approach and what the team was doing, KEEP BUILDING? Pretty evident now after you learn about the lawsuit with Amway! But you knew they were Hyper Paranoid. Not quite sure how out of thousands of people they would sniff someone out but they did.

    They had will call tickets for someone coming at the last minute and it was ordered by and supposed to be credited to the upline Platinum, pfft…Wouldn’t trust that ever, now. I thought you could just buy a ticket at the door too but you would still have to have the name of the person who invited you.

    Not sure how they do it now, but they have to live in constant paranoia, so you probably need a birth certificate, ss#, color of eyes, height, weight, drivers license, what high school you attended, your dogs name, your passwords, where you work too etc… hahaha…including have someone’s approval and member # to get a ticket and in.

    I remember them being pretty jacked about the suspicious Amway people showing up….they get a little edgy and cankerous if they think the truth and their dirty little secrets might be found out. lol 🙂 Hence they will live in fear of the truth the rest of their lives and will probably witness the décor in every court room across America, since that seems to be their means to “conflict resolution.” Wonder if that was on their “dreams list” and in their vision of their grand “legacy” when they signed up in Amway a couple decades ago?

    Here’s the hypocrisy, they liked using the quote: “Those who have nothing to hide, hide nothing” against the rest of the world that is…. as if they are the transparent ones! Delusional.

    * Warning: To those followers….( I recommend you question everything and don’t settle for anything but proof of every promise they make to you, especially how you are paid, income, lifestyle, pay plan, EVERYTHING…they say). I see people are still spreading lies that I know would only come from the top. like EVERYTHING does.

    You better have a backbone, if you question anything…. where are the “ethics”, morals, proof….or anything thing else that seems shady… but don’t say you weren’t warned.

    This site is chuck full of warnings, but everyone can decide for themselves, whether you believe it or not.

  40. Melanie Morgan permalink
    January 28, 2015 7:48 pm

    Thinking more on salty droid attending these MLM “training?” HA! useless motivational, hype and false promises along with the love bombing, group think and pressure events…

    Wouldn’t it be great if he attended not only Team/Lief but oh say..the TOP 10 biggest ones and give analysis of how they “differ” oh wait it would be much easier to see how they are the same,( ie, income and lifestyle claims, miraculous product testimonies on how it cured, and changed their life, finances marriages, how many friends and family they dis and lost…etc.. how they teach to “sell” the product.. that’s a good one…hahaha , (won’t get writters cramp on that one, no teachin necessary there) but how they teach to recruit, recruit, recruit, compare the rhetoric, hype, testimonies, ‘system’, REAL cost to build the business including the tools, tickets…how much product they promote to “buy from yourself” and the cost of the inventory loading necessary etc…and on and on!

    I vote for him to do it! lol Just not sure if it that is in his “dream circle”? 😀

  41. January 29, 2015 10:29 am

    Herbalife needs to tighten up their PowerPoint slides, those things were a disaster. Perhaps they need a little ESBI & then a story about how the Herbalife Grand Poobah attended a 2005 meeting where Vince (of Sham-wow/Slap Chop fame) gave a speech on the 3 H’s: Health, Happiness, and Hookers and the 3rd H was a huge circle…wait, this is shaping into a fantastic pitch, I better keep this close to the vest. Anyone else want in?

  42. exTEAMster permalink
    February 14, 2015 4:54 pm

    The next LIFE leadership event (aka, “major”) is this month in …. drum roll please … Moline, Illinois. This is not meant as a criticism of Moline or the Quad Cities but I’m pretty sure this location wasn’t chosen because they’ve outgrown all other venues. Can’t help but think back to the early LIFE predictions of Orrin about conventions being held in multiple locations on the same weekend with 100,000+ attendees. More than three years later, the march to a million converges on Moline? Hmmmm

  43. February 14, 2015 9:31 pm

    @exTEAMster – Thanks for the info and update.

    The arena in the iWireless Center in Moline, IL, has a max capacity of 12,000 people for end-stage or center-stage concerts. Capacity for amphitheater-style concerts is 6,000 people. The venue appears to be much smaller than the ones used by the organization at previous events.

  44. Helloeeze permalink
    February 15, 2015 11:32 pm

    My friend is going there. She has to take off Thursday through Monday because of limited flights from California. Not exactly convenient, not to mention the freezing weather. Earlier she was feted at a masquerade ball for doing so well. Still hasn’t made any money…YET! The “yet” being said with great emphasis.

  45. freedomhaha permalink
    February 17, 2015 9:45 am

    It follows that with the shrinking size of the team that the leadership would need to go to more out of the way places to receive kickbacks. Not that they have a history with that 🙂

  46. noteam permalink
    February 18, 2015 7:54 pm

    for the last several years, Orrin & crew appear to only be filling about 1/3 of the arena’s they use. (Notice all the empty seats in the upper levels, behind the stage and the empties in each section). If this holds true again, their numbers would be down in the 4-5,000 range.

  47. Melanie Morgan permalink
    February 18, 2015 10:34 pm

    For all those who join LIFE or any MLM: READ CAREFULLY on what the SEC says about Pyramid Schemes….Be brutally honest with yourself, if not don’t say you weren’t warned!

    !st: Due Diligence…Don;t blindly follow or believe anything until you SEE and Get the facts on the MLM company you work for (don’t kid yourself you “own” nothing in LIEf)..READ the fine print and everything you sign!

    WARNING signs and recommendations from SEC: are in this article…

    Is the majority of “profit-sharing” /income from the MLM company that pays you and all participants derived from REAL and genuine “customers”? Don’t lie to yourself and follow the advice of the SEC.

    It is Crazy to me how MLM have managed to pay lobbyist and lawyers, politicians etc to argue, confuse, distract, divert, deny, hide, and argue, twist and turn, the definition of what everyone on the planet understands what a CUSTOMER is….. this is so elementary and shouldn’t need explanation of what one is.. the rest of the world doesn’t even have to discuss it!…Wonder if Walmart or any other retail/sales business in the world (outside of MLM of course) is still confused or must redefine a customer to stay in business?!

    Isn’t there bigger mountains to conquer/ problems in the world to solve better ways to spend a whole lot of money, charities to give to, etc…. than spend decades on trying to redefine what a customer is?.. for the SEC, DOJ, FBI, Lawmakers, Politicians, really? Just saying….But some of us know from experience and having a “downline”… the truth about how many “customers” really exist…..the MLM world must keep this hidden…They wouldn’t exist if they had to be transparent on how many ‘real’ customers they have and how much ‘revenue’ comes from them in supporting the profit to pay the downline!

    Just in case that one person is MLM-confused….A “customer” is NOT your DOWNLINE or someone who registered or signed-up in your business! It is just like any other ‘retail business’ on the planet….the “customer” walks into the store or virtual store/internet or buys directly from wherever your ‘store’ is gives you money for your product and WALA you have a customer…SIMPLE..

    Isn’t it CRAZY to think how much money is being wasted to try and redefine what a real ‘customer’ is? Think…money spent on Lawyers, DSA, Lobbing, Court time, etc..etc..and whatever it takes to keep these companies from being HONEST and transparent on who and how many real customers there have! Unbelievable..

    So, IS the majority of LIFE MLM business income coming from real customers? Haha, Hope they read the SEC article and display this on the overhead in MOLINE to show all the ‘believers’ how Honest they are.

    According to the SEC in the article they state :

    “No demonstrated revenue from retail sales. Ask to see documents, such as financial statements audited by a certified public accountant (CPA), showing that the MLM company generates revenue from selling its products or services to people outside the program.”

    There you have it prospects and believers…ASK to see documents!!

    AND is the LIFE business or your MLM emphasis on recruiting? Remember the worst lie is the lie you tell yourself… BE HONEST… then the SEC says:

    “Emphasis on recruiting. If a program primarily focuses on recruiting others to join the program for a fee, it is likely a pyramid scheme. Be skeptical if you will receive more compensation for recruiting others than for product sales.”

    Happy Reading! 😀

  48. Melanie Morgan permalink
    February 18, 2015 11:12 pm

    Even IF they have 10,000 people attending this major (highly unlikely), that is so far, from the “million people” they were going to reach when again?..They don’t even is BS, delusional, puffery they use to convince the believers to keep spending their money because they and the rest of the world will be joining them? Not happening….

    i’m curious though is it TEAM, LIFE/MONAVIE still and wonder if they ever meet that other goal (or didn’t they forget that one?) remember those 25 Black Diamonds they were supposed to have the first year in Monavie ? Do they still recognize the Monavie new pins? And since everyone else is a ‘quitter’ and Orrin isn’t are they still recruiting and signing up in Monavie or did he quit?

    And remember there was that “bench-marking study” of the best business for everyone (never mind the undisclosed 3 million dollars Orrin/Team received from Monavie) Didn’t Orrin say he was “staying for the long haul”, was sold out to” Dallin’s vision of 25 billion in 25 years”(did he quit that goal too?)

    Where is Monavie today in terms of Dallin, and that vision?…Funny stuff how things seems to slip under the rug….I’m not around much but just wondering are they still “promoting and recruiting” people into Monavie, does anyone know?

  49. Melanie Morgan permalink
    February 19, 2015 12:09 am

    “SEC Halts Colorado-Based Pyramid Scheme”

    “In a complaint unsealed yesterday afternoon in federal court in Denver, the SEC alleges that Kristine L. Johnson of Aurora, Colo., and Troy A. Barnes of Riverview, Mich., have raised more than $3.8 million since April 2014 from investors they enticed into buying positions in their company Work With Troy Barnes Inc., which is doing business as “The Achieve Community.” In Internet videos and other web promotions, investors were pitched “you and anyone you know can make as much money as you want” by purchasing positions that cost $50 each, and as they progress through the matrix they would receive a $400 payout on each position within three to six months. Barnes claimed to have hired a seasoned programmer to perfect the triple algorithm investment formula supposedly generating the extraordinary returns.”

  50. Melanie Morgan permalink
    February 19, 2015 12:13 am

    And they say there is no such thing as “job security?”…hahaha…Sounds to be the SEC has decades of work to do! Glad to see another one might bite the dust!

  51. Melanie Morgan permalink
    February 23, 2015 7:59 am


    Looks like their numbers are drastically shrinking, perhaps the false hope, deception and over the top hype and puffery are no longer working, people getting wise?

    For years they implied and touted they were going to the “Walmart of the Internet”… They have had 4 years to ‘show the world’…with their own MLM and all that big BS talk of ‘Walmart of the Internet’…and that’s it but they are still blowing smoke on the “going to a million”? That is some funny stuff.

    They have controlled and allowed manipulation of positions in the LOS and the entire Team/LIEf fit in that little arena in Moline? NO other venues? So, Canada, and the whole U.S, along with the rest of the world…with the same handful of LIEf Coaches and…. that’s it?!

    Well, I’m really not surprised, looks like they have improved their attrition rates, frankly it looks like it could be a worse attrition rate than when they were in Amway.

    IF they were as good as they cleverly convince and claim, then all those ‘leaders’ that have been around for a decade or more should have that size of arena for their own teams!

    Here is an interesting tweet…Do they realize how precisely that fits their business? Are they testing to see if anyone is still not thinking on their own?

    “He who controls the fools gold controls the fools. @Orrin_Woodward #finances #debt”

    Even with the numbers appearing to be shrinking by the thousands, it is Amazing that that many people can’t see it when they say it!! AND are still fooled by their fools gold!….

    I can’t even express how happy to be away from they propaganda of that delusional, closed, and claustrophobic world.

  52. exTEAMster permalink
    February 23, 2015 11:43 am

    Here’s a preview of the conference that aired Friday on one of the Quad Cities stations. One of the angles of the story is how happy the hotels were to be booked solid all weekend. The restaurants were excited too, but I’m sure they weren’t too happy Friday and Saturday night when all of the potential customers were in the conference until midnight or so. What stood out to me was the estimated attendance of 8,000 which means the LIFE folks were truly expecting about 6,500 or so. Also, they reference LIFE’s membership at 400,000(!). Would love to see that explained on the next Income Disclosure Statement.

  53. noteam permalink
    February 23, 2015 1:25 pm

    400,000 members??? What a joke!!!!! Even if they really had 8,500 there (which we all know isn’t true) imagine only 8,500 out of 400,000 who have an interest in going to an event which is touted as being totally necessary for success 🙂 Also, if you click on the link from exTEAMster, at the bottom in the comments section, a guy named Rich makes the comment that there were actually over 15,000 people there. He must be totally drinking the Kool-Aid. The arena only holds 12,000 if in a round. I saw pictures, it was end stadium. Meaning total capacity was around 8,000 if each and every seat was taken (aka specific seat purchase). In general admission, there are always empty seats in every other row of every section. Add those up and you’re taking hundreds of empty seats. Not counting the sections of empty seats in the upper levels. I peg this one at 6,500 or so.

  54. February 23, 2015 2:20 pm

    Has there been a more recent Income Disclosure Statement since the 2012-13 statement that was explained on Amthrax? Wondering if anything has changed?

  55. switch permalink
    February 23, 2015 2:41 pm

    The lady from the link says… “it’s a vault into something huge”

    Got it!! I’ll take note on when the next LIEfer approaches me with their “vault”. But seriously, o-m-g…..are you f’ing serious? Who’s willing to bet she was duped by a LIFER on the way in?

  56. Melanie Morgan permalink
    February 23, 2015 4:48 pm

    Yep, can hear it now, they will blow that “news” of some no names convention in town (obviously the news caster didn’t promote them) but they use this as if it is an endorsement for them to epic proportions.

    Who do you suppose called attention to it in the first place? Who sounded the alarm to the news station? I would bet the reason they even reported on it was because it was o the PR check list and worked their best sales pitch. The Quad Cities must not have had anything interesting or else to report on?

    BTW~ Are they telling all the Liefers to watch the “news” now? You bet they are…that just might explode their brains though….T.V. and news how dare them watch.. You don’t become “successful” watching that stuff… unless of course they can use it like everything and everyone else….for their benefit and an ego boost.

    It will be so hyped up and exaggerated that the lifers will be running around shouting from the roof tops “we are in the news!”….already are…then people that can reason and think will watch it lol.

    Wouldn’t doubt it is implemented into their plan, feel bad for the Quad Cities the people probably got a real view of what they are about. Because you know that those “thousands” were contacting every janitor, gas station attended from there all the way to California trying to sell them on the biz opportunity.


    It is a “vault” alright,…. the combination is…” Woodward’s” who controls it, it;s all those other people’s monies twitching hands, transfered upline right back into the Woodward vault. 🙂

  57. Melanie Morgan permalink
    February 23, 2015 4:51 pm


    If you can get an answer to that or find one, let me know. Funny or not that seems elusive?

  58. Melanie Morgan permalink
    February 23, 2015 4:54 pm

    Well the news caster did say LIFE leadership AND a Choir was in town, but I would hardly call that a promotion.

  59. freedomhaha permalink
    February 24, 2015 7:02 am

    How far are we into the “5 years to 1,000,000” campaign? It is really embarrassing to admit that I was there in person for that declaration.

  60. Rascal Teamster permalink
    February 24, 2015 7:43 am

    I’ve been watching this post not knowing if I would weigh in or not, but I want to throw this out there.

    I agree in the 6,500 participant number. I figure that puts their actual “active” member numbers somewhere around 20,000-24,000. Let’s give them the total benefit of the doubt and say they are 25,000 member strong.

    So where in the hell does this 400,000 member number come from? Did they just make it up? I don’t think so. I actually believe it’s real….in a sense.

    The PC has totally perfected the art of wrapping a lie in enough of a shred of truth to be able to spin it whichever way they want….always to their benefit.

    Case in point was Melanie’s Orrin Woodward quote, “he who controls the fool’s gold controls the fools.” Life members have been trained to be anti establishment, anti government, what Orrin was referring to was the oligarchy at the top levels of this country….the rich and powerful who control our politicians thru the use of money like a bunch of puppets.

    But I don’t for a minute believe that Orrin was referring to our current political state. In his own sinister brain, he was referring to the oligarchy that is the Team Life system. I can see the PC sitting at the table laughing about it saying, “OMG Orrin, that was smooth!”

    No matter what the Team does, they can always point back to the truth and say, “no no, we really meant the government.”

    So what does this have to do with 400,000 members? That’s the total number of people who have filtered thru the Life business since it started. I honestly can see them sitting around the table giggling about the figure that THEY gave to the press. And YES, I do believe they are that arrogant to throw out the actual figure. That way they can convince themselves that they never “really” lied about it.

    I’m just reading between the BS. Just some thoughts.

    So to answer your question, Freedomhaha, they are roughly three years into Life, and at this rate, based on their math, they will be able to claim 1,000,000 members in roughly 4.5 years. They will do this from the floor of some remote county civic center in front of 2,500 people who will all stand and scream, “we did it!”

    Orrin…finish your quote.” He who controls the fool’s gold controls the fools, BECAUSE he who has the gold makes the rules.” That phrase was coined by the original oligarchs….the money lenders that Jesus threw out of the temple for turning it into a den of thieves. How fitting is that?

  61. freedomhaha permalink
    February 24, 2015 10:21 am

    Rascal Teamster- As always thanks for a great breakdown. However, isn’t their claim that they will have 1,000,000 “butts in seats” all on the same day at different functions?

  62. Rascal Teamster permalink
    February 24, 2015 1:50 pm

    Awesome question, Freedom, but I think I have this one. Brady is a smart man with a love of political science and psychology. He can pull this off.

    One of their strong suits is the rewrite of history. Chris will come out with a new CD that will be madly quoted. He will say, “one day we will have 1,000,000 butts in seats.”

    Long gone will be the days of Orrin’s, “1,000,000 butts in seats at a monthly at the same time with large TV screens simulcasting around the country as the one millionth butt as it enters the building.” Those CDs will be long since discarded by the PO’d members who received them and have long since dropped out. Those books will have been rewritten so many times, the old one will have long been turned into fire starter.

    Then Chris will then say, “Just like Orrin always said, ‘one million butts in seats at a monthly,'” however they will now be counting everyone who ever attended a Monthly…not just the current number at the same time.

  63. freedomhaha permalink
    February 24, 2015 2:40 pm

    Rascal- By golly you nailed that one. This could only be the work of a true “rascal” 🙂 Another move I think they will pull is spinning the slow (read:no) growth into a blessing. “We were not yet the leaders able to handle 1,000,000 people! It was a blessing to have a smaller group to perfect my “leadership” on!!

    These guys are the biggest bunch of clowns around and deserve nothing short of prison.

  64. February 25, 2015 7:08 am

    @jemily52 – I’m not aware of a newer IDS since the 2012-2013 statement. Anyone else?

  65. kilerb permalink
    February 28, 2015 8:05 am looks like Orrin is doing damage control

  66. February 28, 2015 8:16 am

    I missed the part about the $3 million bribe the Orrin received for joining Monavie. Was it in there?

    I also didn’t see any mention of bankrupt Round Tablers giving seminar speeches on finances.

    And yes, they do have “leadership calls” and emails to cue the bootlickers…I mean, “encouraging” the minions to comment on these blogs. I’ve been a part of both.

  67. kilerb permalink
    February 28, 2015 8:51 am

    I agree PJ what also about how the organization was put together .On how some of the Diamonds had their line of sponsorship snatched out from underneath them

  68. noteam permalink
    March 2, 2015 9:01 am

    Kilerb – I just read your link to Orrin’s blog post. Talk about twisting history. Talk about total dishonesty!!!!!! Orrin was kicked out of Quixtar for rules violations and lost a $25 million legal judgement. At the time he denied that he had any desire to start a new company. Now, he’s claiming plans had actually been underway to start a new company at the time.

    He makes it sound like he was unaware of the venture between Amway & Quixtar???? He was already retired from his job and fulltime in Amway at the time. We were al fully aware of the relationship.

    His business was doing $100 million a year in 2007, plus another $100 million from groups he stole? That’s $200 million. I thought LIFE only did $50 million last year. So in the last 8 years of building on top of a community that started at $200 million, they have grown although was to what……..$50 million. I’d say that’s a HUGE decline, not an increase. Who was it that always said “Specific measurable results or something must change”. I’d say it’s time for the TEAM/LIFEr’s to find a new community.

    He is so dishonest, it’s disgusting!!!!!

  69. Rascal Teamster permalink
    March 2, 2015 9:43 am


    Thanks for posting that. They do rewrite history, don’t they?

    So glad you brought Orrin’s plans for another business. I was shocked when I read it. Can’t believe he put that in print. If I’m not mistaken, wasn’t the entire basis of Orrin’s defense that he wasn’t trying to steal the Team from Amway…that we all left of our own free will? Didn’t he say under oath that he never had plans to start a new business?

    Now in his blog, he’s saying that there were plans. Are we going to add perjury to his long list of MLM credentials??? Someone screen shot that and send to Amway headquarters just for fun.

  70. Melanie Morgan permalink
    March 3, 2015 6:23 pm

    You guys are bringing out some very important points, and my thoughts exactly on the perjury you bring up, Rascal.

    There is so many more…along with the blatant contradictions that light needs to be shed on with this strategically and obviously selective ‘story’.

    Orrin is notorious for painting himself into a saintly hero, to leave the impression his character is pure as snow, that continues to get unquestioning, from the absolute disturbing commenters….those ‘followers’ comments…oh man, Holy cult worshippers of Orrin! I would have thought they would tone the worshipping of Orrin way down! Self destructive.

    This story is typical strategic propaganda and no doubt strategic timing,

    It is disturbing how Orrin intentionally leaves how the parts that he knows would show his real ‘character, like the undisclosed 3 million dollars they got from Monavie, already mentioned and all the other left out information!.

    We could spend hours pointing out the ‘rest of the story’ to help see beyond their deception and intentionally information they withhold and might share more later.

    But I challenge anyone to do you research, don’t follow anyone blindly…

    This I know…The deception, lies, destruction, and damage I witnessed, heard and experienced from well over a decade of trusting these untrustworthy liars and the demands and damage done to God only knows the real number…of tens, hundreds, of thousands will never be the truth they share.

    From them it will always sound like you are witnessing Heaven,,,, they will only paint it rosy, pie in the sky, their better than any other MLM – most honest Christian, character (ego) driven, famous business leaders in the WORLD…who personally changed everyone’s life and made them so much better…. same stories and conditioned language, terms and worshipping from everyone..You can count on it,!

    This story reminds me of some wisdom from Proverbs…”As a dog returns to his vomit, so a fool returns to his folly.”

    And lastly, more wisdom…

    “People think that a liar gains a victory over his victim. What I’ve learned is that a lie is an act of self-abdication, because one surrenders one’s reality to the person to whom one lies, making that person one’s master, condemning oneself from then on to faking the sort of reality that person’s view requires to be faked…The man who lies to the world, is the world’s slave from then on…There are no white lies, there is only the blackest of destruction, and a white lie is the blackest of all.”

  71. exTEAMster permalink
    March 3, 2015 6:52 pm

    FYI … the next “major” is taking place in Green Bay in June. The Green Bay arena’s seating capacity is about 2,000 seats smaller than the Moline facility.

  72. March 4, 2015 8:43 pm

    @exTEAMster – will there be other locations (i.e. Canada and California) for the next major or will all groups convene in Green Bay?

  73. freedomhaha permalink
    March 5, 2015 7:17 am

    What does it say about the Team that they are sticking in the midwest with all of the majors? You would think they have tapped the midwest dry by now with their deception.

    Also, how are they running Tuesday nights? Do we have a list of their weekly meetings that are no doubt shrinking.

  74. exTEAMster permalink
    March 5, 2015 8:12 pm

    Sorry for not having complete information. The Green Bay event is on the same weekend as events in Ottawa and Sacramento.

  75. noteam permalink
    March 6, 2015 9:19 am

    It would be interesting if someone could find facebook posts with pictures of the Ottawa & Sacramento functions. Would love to see how many people they have at those

  76. Jeanne Gehrke permalink
    April 17, 2016 4:58 pm

    Yes I remember being in TEAM when they started working with Monavie. There were many many deceptions but the one that sticks out the most and made me leave the TEAM was when Success Magazine came to a Major. The TEAM was going to be featured in Success magazine because the magazine realized how the TEAM was growing and was an up and coming business. Orrin, Tim & Chris all said things like this from stage: This magazine is going to be on shelves all across the U.S. Can you imagine how we will explode in numbers when people see this insert in the magazine?

    The only problem was the insert that was in all the magazines sold at the convention to the members was NOT in the magazine that was available anywhere else. I went to a local book store and the issue was there on the shelf but there was NO mention of TEAM in any of the issues.

    Same at another book store I went to. I realized then and there we had all been duped into believing this insert for TEAM would be in every one of the issues produced and be all over the U.S. The issue was…just not the team insert. When I went to my upline about this they were shocked. They had the same understanding that it would be in every single magazine produced! This was just one of the many many deceptions they spewed from stage.

    Always talking integrity until it came to their own leadership.

    Sad but true.


  1. Ex-TEAM Q&A: Former Turbo 25 P.J. Talks About His Recent Departure | AMTHRAX

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