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Ex-TEAM Q&A: Former Turbo 25 P.J. Talks About His Recent Departure

June 21, 2013

Here’s another entry in the Ex-TEAM Q&A. Former Turbo 25, P.J. talks about his recent departure from TEAM/LIFE.

P.J. emphasizes that having verifiable facts was instrumental in his departure from TEAM/LIFE. This blog has revealed bankruptcies of high-level TEAM/LIFE members, a strategic foreclosure by a TEAM Policy Council member, gaming of best seller book lists, gamed and dubious leadership awards, and more. These aren’t opinions, these are facts. The bankruptcies are in the public record. The IAB was shut down by the U.S. Government as a health insurance scam.

Furthermore, we’ve analyzed the LIFE Income Disclosure Statement, and concluded that most of the money goes to the top of the organization. Combined with the personal stories from ex-TEAM members, a different picture of TEAM/LIFE can be contrasted with what will be said on the Summer Conference stage this weekend in Columbus, Ohio. Whom should one believe?

Without further ado, here’s P.J.’s story:

Joining TEAM

Tell us a little bit about your situation prior to joining TEAM?

I was a 9-to-5’er who didn’t like his job.

How were you approached to join TEAM?

A guy at work contacted me with a CD.

What attracted you to TEAM?

The prospect of self-improvement and making a little money at the same time. I was contacted with some CDs and later on referred to some books. I liked what I heard and who can argue with self-improvement?

At the time you joined, what MLM company was TEAM aligned with? For instance, what products were you trying to sell?

It was sold to me as what would become LIFE but it didn’t have a name yet. Team was still with Monavie but I told the guy at work that I didn’t want to sell juice. He promised me “something huge was coming” and encouraged me to hold my spot. He showed me how to STP without talking about Monavie. I started going to seminars and started getting people to hold their spots. I was Power Player (PP) on paper before LIFE even started, without a selling a single ‘real’ product. How great is that?

How much money was told one could/would make and in what time frame (or implied)?

At my first house plan it was shown how you could (supposedly) make 30k/yr in 6 months by going PP every month. Of course, that assumes those you sign up do the same, which now seems so ridiculous. It looked easy on the whiteboard. 10 and 4, 5 and 2 with lots of help from your first team on the 10. It seemed very doable.

Did they entice you with what they were making?

Directly, they talked about the fact that they were regular Joes like me “before this opportunity” but now they were job-optional. Indirectly, they had their lapdogs quietly entice their downline & prospects by casually saying things like ‘oh yeah, he’s almost at a 7-figure income’. I believe that was on purpose so that we could never tie it back to the presenter. If you did happen to have the guts to ask the presenter or even the RT how much they made, well, ‘they’ve got a program for that’. Be prepared to receive questions to your questions. And lots of them.

Were their promises of passive, residual, ongoing income promoted?

Yes. The Cashflow Quadrant B business was front and center.

Working The Business

On a scale of 1-10, with 10 being the highest, how hard would you say you worked the system?


Did you attend all the weekly meetings?

Yes. They were a short drive from my house.

Did you attend all the monthly seminars?

Yes. They were in my hometown.

Did you attend all the quarterly Major Functions?

No, I missed a few, please let me digress for a moment and explain.

I never 100% bought into the aura the leaders attempt to shine. They’re really big on using the chance to spend time with your RT or PC as rewards for building the biz and to me, that was lame. I mean, if I build RT & PC’s business for them and they paid for an all-inclusive trip to Orrin’s, that’s one thing. But continually killing yourself just to have the chance to spend YOUR money to travel to Orrin’s or other PC’s beach houses, I never was ‘fired up’ about that.

Even the smaller rewards, like getting to hang out with our PC when he’s in town, were a joke. Big deal. I don’t mean to sound arrogant but those who’ve been around Team know that these are just men. Men with fancy things, some of which are financed. Our RT would set a PP goal and the big reward was getting to breathe the same air as our PC for an hour, 2 hrs if you went Double PP. Inevitably, the day for the reward would come up and there wouldn’t be but 1 or 2 qualifiers. That’s when the texts would come down at 1:30 PM that day from RT saying “anyone who made 3 phone calls last month qualifies for PC BBQ today at 3 PM”. It doesn’t take a genius to figure out that business must not be “exploding” if they’re dropping the bar for the PC reward (this also clued me in that maybe this Team biz wasn’t as great as portrayed, more on that later).

I can imagine the pounding our RT took when the PC showed up and saw how many he had “inspired” to reach their PP goal. For that reason, if you don’t drop everything that you’re doing and go to the ends of the earth to hang out with RT or PC, you will never be in the innermost circle. Even though I hit the required Turbo levels, I never bought into this silliness. For this reason, I never was voted in as a director (I also let my upline know I wasn’t interested in being forced to buy $600 per month in tools in order to maintain director qualification, that didn’t help).

To tie this all to my initial point: since I didn’t get paid directly for getting people to the major and I was paying for the exact same talks that would be on next month’s system or LIFE subscription anyway. I saw no value in the majors. They were the easiest to skip.

Did you ever miss any meeting? If so, for what reason?

Yes, see previous answer.

With all this time spent in meetings, when did you go out and prospect people?

I had a huge initial contact list & a few lists that prospects had given me.

What places did you go to do your prospecting?

Anywhere. I’d look for friendly people & chat them up.

How much time did you spend working your business each week? Include time spent at meetings and prospecting.

15-20 not including reading or CD listening.

Were you aware of websites or individuals critical to TEAM?


What was your opinion of the critics?

As I’ve stated in earlier posts, it’s easy to ignore or spin a lot of the criticism because most of the claims are hard to verify from an independent 3rd party. ‘He said/she said’ internet blogs aren’t exactly the best sources for accurate information, especially when you’re in a hurry. When you’re evaluating what is good information and what isn’t, it’s helpful to have indisputable facts that can easily and quickly be verified without a bunch of cross-referencing (like the Top 30 list removal of Orrin and Chris, recent bankruptcies, the IAB award).

When I first came to this site, it seemed to be a mixture of whining and one-off bad experiences with people that went overboard with tool spending. It was spun to me as bitterness from the outcome of old events brought on by the evil Amway departure. On the Team side of the wall, we were told tales of heroes that fought an unfair company and won. Since I’d never heard anything positive about Amway, it was easy to accept my upline’s spin and move on. Those on this site were portrayed as people who either didn’t work hard enough or were nasty, underachieving haters who found it easier to criticize than to do the hard work necessary to succeed in Team/Life.

How did you become aware of websites or individuals critical to TEAM? Did they criticize the critics from stage at every seminar and or just behind the scenes?

I became aware when prospects would ask about topics from this site. Critics were routinely dismissed as whiners & quitters by speakers on stage and on CD.

Did you shun people who didn’t join TEAM?


Were the people you now hung out with just TEAM members?

I still had other friends but just as a function of working the biz so hard, I didn’t have time to hang out with other people.

What did you do outside of your TEAM business? For instance, sporting activities, date nights, volunteer work, etc.

Not much. On a rare night that there were no plans or meetings, I found myself not wanting to do much except relax. This was even hard to do because you’re taught that relaxing is a big no-no unless you’ve set a goal to go Triple PP, hit it, and can afford to travel and relax at Orrin’s house for a few days.

Concerns About The Business

When you joined, did you know that the TEAM leadership made a substantial amount of money from the sale of tools (tapes, CD’s, marketing materials) and function tickets?

I didn’t know how much exactly, but I did the math. I knew it had to go somewhere.

During your time, did TEAM join another MLM company or start selling other company’s products? If so, how was this change communicated? Did you have any problems or concerns regarding this transition?

It was technically Monavie, but it was more Team by itself. See my answer to the 4th question for more.

When did you start having doubts about the effectiveness of TEAM and the business opportunity?

I knew that to be successful, I had to “build my community” & get people to seminars and eventually to majors. I went Triple PP once, and at the next seminar after the major, I was a Turbo 4 (28 in my first, 4 in my 2nd). I had gone PP 5 times, hit Turbo 25 prior, and still couldn’t get people to see value in the Tuesday nights or seminars. And of course, I was told that the system “works if you do”, so it was my fault for not building that value.

If it the system and business was so great, why is it incumbent upon ME to get people to see value in seminars and majors? After roughly 2 1/2 yrs, it was the same old “community” consisting of a few hardcore Team lapdogs and hardly anyone new that stuck around.

That’s when it hit me: if the numbers at seminars are on the declining side of static, then the only people making money are my upline RT/PC. They get paid by the status quo, which is maintained by people like me constantly signing people up who leave, then are replaced by the new people I sign up next month. Theoretically, yes, you could theoretically pass your upline and have bigger numbers at a seminar or seminars. But in actuality, numbers for actives are down across the Team and unless you’re given a new market, you can plan on being the one who pays for seminars and not by seminars. My upline was given this market & is the only one making decent money (or so I thought). The rest of us are just suckers who keep showing up and struggle to bring people to these meetings.

Do you know your group’s attrition rate? Upline and downline groups.

Very high. 80-85% in both of my teams never even came to a seminar.

How many were ‘on system’ (and got off) out of total numbers in group during your time in TEAM?

30-40% would get on system, almost 100% dropped within a few months. I say ‘almost 100%’ because in my entire time with Team, 2 people I sponsored signed up and stayed on system even after I left. I don’t have an exact % but you don’t need an abacus to know it ain’t good.

What finally pushed you over the edge and made you quit TEAM?

When I found out that the Top 30 Leadership Guru List was scammed by 3 voters, I was incensed. That list was pitched to us as an objective, independent entity with no affiliation with Team who picked Orrin & Chris based on merit. This and their NYT Best-selling book LLR (another faked accomplishment, thank you for the explanation, Amthrax) were what not only made them great leaders but actually put them above the rest because they’re the only 2 from same company on the list blah blah you know the rest. THAT’S the entire basis for the LIFE business pitch on Tuesday nights or the plan your friend shows you at Tim Horton’s. You are slammed in the head with this shammery before you even hear about Team. Their supposed leadership credentials are the entire reason I joined Team. Once that brick of the pyramid was yanked, the other 7 F bricks crumbled down. I don’t care if it’s regurgitated or not, I cannot heed a message when it comes out of the mouth of any of the PC or high-ranking RT.

Conservatively, how much money did you spend as part of TEAM?

Over $10,000. It didn’t seem like much at the time but it really adds up after a few years.

How much time did you ultimately spend on the business?

More than I’m proud to admit.

If you knew about the public records of some of the TEAM leadership — bankruptcies, strategic defaults, and foreclosures — would this have hasten your departure from TEAM?

If it was someone who had recently spoke at a seminar, webcast or CD, then yes.

What did you do with all of the tools that you purchased?

I gave most away. My downline never bought them from me (I should’ve listened to more tool moving CDs, right?). I didn’t go crazy with it though, I knew when to say when.

Looking Ahead

Given the choice to join TEAM again, would you do it?

Obviously, I wouldn’t just because I’d have no use for people that I know for a fact aren’t walking the walk.

What lessons did you learn from your TEAM experience?

I learned that grown men will believe anything if they think the ends are worth it.

What advice would you give to people who have left TEAM?

If you were like me and lucky enough to actually develop some good habits without going into debt, ruining your marriage, or becoming a post-Jesus man-worshiper, then continue to improve yourself. Go find these principles in the Bible so that when you want a lesson on financial responsibility, you’ll hear God’s voice and not Claude Hamilton’s.

What advice would you give to current TEAM members?

While you’re not doing anything illegal (yet), you know in your heart this business as it is taught (sponsoring vs moving products) does not benefit the new guy. The most eager go-getter in your downline doesn’t have a chance unless his/her dad is the CEO of UPS who’s never heard of Google and has no friends/family with an internet connection. Every time you sponsor a new person, you’re perpetuating what you know is a lie.

Any last words?

Look at the data. When I joined Team & eventually LIFE, my belief was built on was it was going to be, not on what it actually done for people. There’s data available now to prove it’s never going to be more than a PC cash funnel with a lucky few actually making money. I had to laugh at somebody’s post in another thread that was defending Team and backed their argument with “and by next summer, I’ll be job optional!” My advice: find someone who started a little before or around the time LIFE launched, went from 0 to job-optional, and did not know any RT or PC prior. If you can’t find any, are you really going to be the first?

Ask your upline why the Team bankruptcies were infused with so much credit card debt despite what is taught from stage. Don’t be afraid to chalk up your wasted time, effort, and money so far to sunk cost; quit Team, and move on to something worth your talents. If you truly learned anything, use it and make that decision on principle. Don’t be the ‘over-stated, it’ll-be-true if-I-spew-it-at-every-plan’ person whose results can’t match their belief and keeps having to move that “I’ll be cartwheeling out of my job like Tim Marks” date out as it continually passes with time.

I was that guy. Don’t be that guy.

Thanks to P.J. for sharing his story. If you’re an ex-TEAM member, consider sharing your story by participating in the Ex-TEAM Questions and Answers Series.

56 Comments leave one →
  1. June 21, 2013 6:53 am

    Thanks for sharing PJ! I like your advice to people who have left TEAM!

  2. June 21, 2013 7:23 am

    Once again… someone who was hitting the pavement and doing the work… thanks for sharing your story.

  3. Vogel permalink
    June 21, 2013 9:09 am

    An enlightening and invaluable post. Thanks P.J.!

  4. Rascal Teamster permalink
    June 21, 2013 9:39 am


    Awesome post. Thanks for sharing…..

    Some of the best advice I’ve read here is when you said, “If you were like me and lucky enough to actually develop some good habits without going into debt, ruining your marriage, or becoming a post-Jesus man-worshiper, then continue to improve yourself. Go find these principles in the Bible so that when you want a lesson on financial responsibility, you’ll hear God’s voice and not Claude Hamilton’s.”

    You rock, brother. That sums it up perfectly.

  5. Melanie Morgan permalink
    June 21, 2013 10:02 am


    Thank You for your story, very clear and well written. No doubt this will help others, for they will relate and see themselves in your story!

    Wise & Great Advice, glad you are free and keep sharing! Good luck with your furture; many blessings to you!

  6. I QUIT (and glad I did) permalink
    June 21, 2013 11:46 am

    And the clouds of cognitive dissonance did part, allowing the light of common sense and individual, logical thought to shine upon him. And he was enlightened.

  7. P.J. permalink
    June 22, 2013 9:03 am

    Thanks, guys. If more of us keep sharing, the more light we can shed on what really can be expected by sacrificing your time, money, and relationships to this sham of a business.

  8. what is the truth permalink
    June 22, 2013 9:05 am

    Question. I left life after 6 months. Did orrin. Chorus. Tim And other RT and PC begin LIFE with teams already? Would explain rapid growth. So deceived!

  9. noteam permalink
    June 22, 2013 9:50 am

    what is the truth – Yes, Orrin, Chris & Tim are scammers. This so called ‘growth’ is actually from the Amway/Quixtar business they started in the 90’s. Then they stole a huge group from Dexter Yager.

    This massive ‘growth’ they talk about is evidenced by the fact that they had somewhere close to 25,000 people at a function in Louisville 5 years ago and have now grown all the way to having less than 10,000 people at functions. So much for the success benefits of their training.

  10. Melanie Morgan permalink
    June 23, 2013 12:51 am

    What is the truth-

    They tout and spin it . with all their might, that is the plan…get everyone to ‘believe’…“rapid growth“….but that is not nor will be the reality…they are down down at least 10,000 plus..probanly a lot more…from their peak… and that is adding all the other solicated Amway Diamonds & their groups that took decades…and continuous cycles and churned through hundreds of thousands of people….they haven’t and I don’t believe they ever will even catch back up to that and have had 2 other greatest best business with their grand beloved very own final MLM… LIfE Training…and 5 years to do it!

    But then what could any sane person expect with a low balled admitted attrition rate of 40.4%?….

    The brutal reality…for almost every 2 suckers recruited 1 of those wisens up at quits… claiming rapid or exploding… growth is nothing more than a necessary part of the game of illusions they must play to keep others “believing….but the truth is and if you build it you realize it’s more accurate and realistic.. to spinning wheels…stagnate ruts… continuous and never ending recruiting…

    By the very definition of attrition rate…. there would be no such thing as “retirement“ or “passive, residual “b-type blah, blah ,blah…. the closest thing to the only one with that is Orrin and I would bet my bottom dollar… you remove him, it would collapse. Because they have created the performance based cult following… that you become a slave to…or the entire culture is based around the cult of personality (Orrin)…

    Another necessary distraction that they NEED others to “buy in“. and especially believe and repeat… they get started because of of their own “self-improvement“, “achievement“ and (orrin’s political agenda.). “to change the world“…. “the cause“”… “something bigger than themselves“ or the need to belong belongand other, deepest human desires…the low liefers prey on and even promise they can get through them…

    All very effective ploys to distract the masses from seeing or caring about their obvious massive losses they will incur, the broken & shunned shunned and strained relationships, debt creating for those masses-who will never make a profit, in the unstainable poor business opporunity…that they have been recruited into! They must distract and get others to “believe“ ……

    Quite clever isn’t it?….

    I thank God we are gone,…and so many others are gone…. to never, ever return:. )

    [Editor’s note: Edited for better readability]

  11. Will permalink
    June 23, 2013 11:20 pm

    Amazingly, I was with Team of Destiny back in 2003…before any Team or Monavie. I spent a lot of money. Many things they did I was told as time went on and eventually after moving came to some sense concerning the draw of having more at the expense of others who only wanted to dream again and trust that the promise of help was true. Many leaders I remember and what’s weird is that some of the top leaders from over 10yrs ago are gone…I think they couldn’t stand the lack of integrity. There were some benefits though I must admit. I became a better reader and the books they recommended were great. I’m involved now with network marketing business that is doing it right and what am I doing though not asked, reading the TOD books….they apply for now. If interested I’d be more than happy to discuss with you a true revolution and transfer of wealth that’s coming.

    [Editor’s note: This isn’t a forum for advertising other MLM business opportunties]

  12. MinitureGiantSpaceHamster permalink
    June 24, 2013 11:41 am


    When in LIFE they liked to throw around the quote “The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over while expecting a different result.”, supposedly by Albert Einstein. While it seemingly makes sense from what I’ve gathered it’s just another phrase with a famous persons name attached (it has also been attributed to Ben Franklen and Mark Twain).

    If someone wants to be smart they can say “No, that’s the definition for perservation.”

  13. P.J. permalink
    June 24, 2013 11:56 am

    Will, you might want to dust off that Team contacting script from way back when, I don’t think the new one is tight enough to catch any fish in this pond.

  14. Freedomhaha permalink
    June 24, 2013 1:25 pm

    P.J.- Thank you for sharing your story.

  15. Chrisxrascal permalink
    June 24, 2013 11:43 pm

    Pj – thanks for sharing! It sounds you were on the team about the same time frame as I was. Your story was very relatable. You seem to have done well on team hitting power player. What bothers me most is how some people in team believe and will keep on hoping their going to make it in the business ” someday ” , when many haven’t had any significant success hitting power player. I wander what percentage of people are making profit in this so called ” business “.

  16. what is the truth permalink
    June 25, 2013 4:51 am

    Thanks to everyone for sharing! Amthrax and those that have the guts to share to spare someone the heartache and $$$$ is priceless. How could i have been so deceived? I still have family members singing their praises. Literally sickens me. How can. I help them? Seems even the facts they don’t believe. This is not only a scam but a cult!

  17. Sonic permalink
    June 25, 2013 5:21 pm

    Re: what is the truth

    I have family members involved with these people (TOD to LIFE) for close to 20 years now. There is no escaping … they have nothing without it. No hope and no direction in Life.. you are so right….. this is NOT a business, IT IS A CULT.

    I wish I could tell the World what I know… its scary.

  18. June 26, 2013 7:04 am

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  19. June 26, 2013 7:32 am

    @Tracy – I’m sorry to hear about your son; hope he realizes what’s happening and can get out. Read the rest of the Ex-TEAM stories to see how other former members realized they’ve been had. Read the Freedom of Mind site to understand the methods TEAM/LIFE is using on your son.

  20. June 26, 2013 7:39 am

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  21. June 26, 2013 8:23 am

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  22. Vogel permalink
    June 26, 2013 8:50 am

    Tracy, you story makes me so sad. I hate to see these predators sink their meat-hooks into someone so young and vulnerable. I hope and pray that he gets out soon before its too late. At 19, he should be goofing off with a summer job, hitting the gym, and having fun; not hooking up with a bunch of degenerate, exploitative, broke-ass, delusional money-idolators.

    If it were up to me, I’d give your son a summer job and a gym membership, a pat on the back with best wishes for a better future. We can’t let the LIEfers rob of us of our greatest resource — our kids.

    I’m hearing Pink Floyd in my head now…”Hey…LIEfers…leave those kids alone!”

    I’ll say a prayer for both of you.

  23. June 26, 2013 8:58 am

    Collect facts about the history of TEAM/LIFE and its founders and high-ranking members. There’s enough information in the public record – bankruptcies, strategic foreclosures, lawsuits, gamed credentials, etc. that should give anyone pause.

    If he turns around and says something like, “Well, anyone who’s done anything has had his share of critics,” simply agree with him and say, “Yes, but let’s not generalize and let’s talk about this particular group of individuals.”

    Some talking points:

    1) If the bankruptcies and strategic foreclosures were not revealed (on this site), would members in TEAM/LIFE have ever heard about it? Why were those individuals allowed to go up on the TEAM/LIFE stage (before, during and after bankruptcy) and talk about finances?

    2) If the IAB wasn’t shut down by the U.S. Government as being a health insurance scam, would TEAM/LIFE members have heard about it? Orrin Woodward continues to tout the award handed to him by the IAB – on his website, in his Leadershift book, etc. — yet he knows that the organization that gave him this award is now a scam. Why does he do that?

    3) Oliver DeMille, one of the speakers at the Summer Conference last week, has his own history of dubious credentials and shady dealings. Why would the college that he helped found ultimately turn its back on him and basically kick him out?

    These aren’t merely opinions by those who were formerly in TEAM/LIFE. These are FACTS about people who are currently involved with TEAM/LIFE today. The opinions and stories shared here only serve to reinforce the belief that the TEAM/LIFE business is a bad business opportunity for the majority of participants.

  24. June 26, 2013 9:46 am

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  25. June 26, 2013 9:47 am

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  26. noteam permalink
    June 26, 2013 11:17 am

    Tracy – if your son is seeing a professional counselor, I would speak to them. In my mind, much of the cult tactics this group uses cross the line regarding professional counseling without a license. You might have a lawsuit on your hands that could finally open up this cult. There are A LOT of families who have been tragically devastated by some of this ‘counseling’ done by this group.

    And it’s not about the lawsuit for money. It’s about stopping illegal practices that have ruined possibly thousands of families.

  27. Melanie Morgan permalink
    June 26, 2013 12:14 pm


    Thanks for sharing. You situation is sad, but not hopeless. Luckily, he has a great caring mom who has quickly caught on and will be able to help! Thank God for sites like this, Freedom of Mind and so many others, they cannot hide like they used to and people are getting the support and information they need. I commend you and have know doubts you will win in the end!

    You definitely have came to the right place and know there are some wonderful people like Amthrax and all the other amazing people here that have stuck their necks out, devote their time, share their wisdom and experience, understand and are here for your support. You will find they will be supportive in anyway possible.

    This site and the gracious people have helped me in more ways than I can express. We were involved for 13+ years and it takes a lot to clear your head from this cult.

    The Lifers are masters and practice effective manipulative tactics and I will assure you it is strategic and your gut is right about them using anything they can to recruit!

    They Peddle the Gospel and have created massive division and basically when called out they have the Team/Life members leave those churches because they look at ANYONE as an enemy that would speak out or not ‘with them’, thus destructive to those churches and all other relationships!

    So, thought you might find this article helpful too; “The Threat of Team and Life Business: A Warning to Fellow Shepherds” written by a Pastor WARNING others! Says a lot when a Pastor has to write an article to WARN the public! These guys affect and exploit anyway they can.

    You may already know that they ‘use’ Christianity to serve them and their scam but if not you will soon find out, they keep it on the forefront. It certainly works well along with their other tactics on getting others to ‘instantly’ Trust without question!

    Good luck, we are praying and are in your corner! Keep us posted!

  28. Melanie Morgan permalink
    June 26, 2013 12:17 pm

    Oops meant to add the link to the Pastor’s article:

  29. Melanie Morgan permalink
    June 26, 2013 12:18 pm


    Welcome and feel free to share your story! 🙂

  30. June 26, 2013 12:24 pm

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  31. June 26, 2013 1:13 pm

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  32. Melanie Morgan permalink
    June 26, 2013 1:53 pm

    Congrats Tracy! Happy, that was quick! 🙂

    But you are right to not let your guard down, they have a “program for everything“ I am glad your neice and nephew repect you.

    Could you clarify what you meant by them reading your post, was that your post on here was it your text?

  33. June 26, 2013 2:07 pm

    @Melanie – how did you come across that article by Pastor Dave Marriott?

  34. June 26, 2013 2:57 pm

    This comment has been removed at the request of the original poster.

  35. June 26, 2013 2:58 pm

    And anyway … “invitation”? INVITATION? Oh, my gosh. Invitation to Hotel California, maybe.

    I like the Pink Floyd reference, too. 🙂

  36. Melanie Morgan permalink
    June 26, 2013 6:59 pm


    Ain’t it great 🙂 The internet is a beautiful thing!


    Prepare yourself….the games have begun, and oh yes…Hotel California that is the 3rd reference to that this week for me haha! Pretty close analogy except:

    You can leave, the hell, but not without feeling you survived hell! And for most, especially if you “know“ like those of us who wete close to those supposed friends, at least.not writhout betrayal, lawsuits, slander, lies, atempts at intimidation, bullying, taking peoples teams and “passive, residual, ongoing etc.income,“ threats; for some they want to ruin those who speak out…“Christians?“….. not even close..not from what I have seen and the experiences of others.

    But will say they put on an amazing act….Very believable, they had us fooled for over a decade….believable right up until you disagree or “check out“ or when they think you will check out, then you will get a taste of who they really are behind closed doors. I have spoken to so leaders who were up close and personal to the top PC and our own experience, I can tell you they are not who they appear nor claim to be!

  37. June 26, 2013 7:11 pm

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  38. Melanie Morgan permalink
    June 26, 2013 7:14 pm

    For those who called them out and the rest…you aren’t nothing but a “failure“, loser, who didn’t do the work….and although all those leaders who they called “friends“ that built massive numbers, spoke on stages were awesome promoted builders..while involved but once they found out the truth and refused to sell their souls or sell out their downline familiy and friends, well they become instant enemies in the minds of these wolfs in sheeps clothing!

  39. Melanie Morgan permalink
    June 26, 2013 7:25 pm

    Thank You Tracy-

    I am doing what I Love, spending quality time with my family, and friends. We couldn’t be happier since we left.

    I thank God daily for it just wish we wouldn’t have lost that much time. Hopefully my contribution helps others, now.

    Honestly we are glad they did what they did to us. Unfortunately it took too long took a sledge hammer to wake us up! These guys abused trust like no other.

    [Editor’s note: Corrected misspelling]

  40. June 26, 2013 7:29 pm

    This comment has been removed at the request of the original poster.

  41. Freedomhaha permalink
    June 27, 2013 12:46 pm

    Sonic- Welcome and I second what Melanie said about sharing your story.

    Tracy- God’s blessings on getting your son out of this cult. Stories like yours at what keeps me going posting here because I know that it is saving lives.

    Amthrax- I cannot express how much your work here means to me! Without your workm and the work of others, I might still be in this soul sucking cult.

  42. not roped in permalink
    June 27, 2013 1:05 pm

    Thanks for sharing PJ!

    Anyone in the Toronto Area?

    A couple weeks ago I just had a meeting with one of these LIFE reps and it was the most disturbing experience I’ve had in a while.

    First of all, this individual supposedly holds graduate degrees and is a certified life coach giving free or near free seminars all over the city. I was at one of their seminars and found it to be quite uplifting, going home satisfied. In a follow up call from them, they asked if I was interested in earning some extra cash on the side. I hesitated, but they insisted and a small part of me was hoping that it was for legit project and not a pyramid scheme.

    Yeah right.

    First they had me discuss my dreams and goals, which actually felt like an awkward process because I already consider myself fairly successful, on the path to achieving my dreams and I live vey simply (no, I’m not at all interested in a big fancy mansion or a Lamborghini). Obviously, what they were about to pitch me depended heavily on motivation by my own greed, desire for things.

    Then they went on to talk about how there are three emerging trends in business, and this opportunity encompasses them all (they don’t at all).

    When I expressed hesitation, they started to bully me, asking my I was so “scared” and that this train was “moving on and up with or without me,” etc, etc.

    They then proceeded to show me a sample package, which to me looked like 4 CDs and a copy of a dated persona finance book I could get at the library. By the way, the CD jackets looked like they were designed by a 10 year old in MS Paint.

    They then thrust an application form in my face to which I responded with a look that said “You’ve got to be kidding me.” So also tried lend me material in an obvious attempt to force another meet up.

    The whole thing was awful and embarrassing. Especially how loudly and heatedly (passion or desperation?) they were talking in the McDonalds.

    So glad I found this site, it confirmed my thoughts, especially with regards the brainwashing cult stuff, I mean, it would have to be for a seemingly smart person with a masters in business to get roped into this so deep.

    Anyone from Toronto who’s experienced something similar, feel free to email my gmail: mariatoujours

  43. MinitureGiantSpaceHamster permalink
    June 27, 2013 4:15 pm

    @Tracy: Hello Tracy! I’ll pass on a bit of wisdom those on this site have previously shared with me. If your son ever expresses interest in the third party materials provided by LIFE (at ridiculous cost) can be gotten for free at your local library. There is genuine good information found in LIFE when you pick through the scraps. I just wouldn’t pay money to get it from LIFE. 🙂

  44. June 27, 2013 4:32 pm

    This comment has been removed at the request of the original poster.

  45. Melanie Morgan permalink
    June 27, 2013 5:29 pm

    Not roped in-

    Thanks for sharing the step by step recruitment process! It is the same for all! You certainly are keen to them, good for you!

    That process hasn’t changed a bit and is as old as Amways dirt..their old stopping grounds before orrin & co.were kicked out for bad business practices then they Battled with them in a lawsui that they (Team) lost to tune of 25 million collectively for the TOP 3 yahoo’s. At least that is what has been publicy disclosed. Thought they were “teachable“ like lightening fast LOL.. from their decades of reading and all their “leadership“… Ha! Same ole desperate attacks.

    Sad how quick and desperate they become when it becomes obvious their slimy low life techniques don’t work and they feel the prospect isn’t suckered in! They have to resort to their much taught and practiced guilt trips or “challenge the choleric“ manipulation, rather than just accept “its not for everyone“ haha or they “aren’t in the looking zone“….they can’t handle nor do they respect NO, I AM NOT INTERESTED,…and let the person go! Geez, seems you almost have to get up and run screaming U said NO!!

    They need to re-read and apply some people skills….they must rather want to burn the bridge completely with their victims…they show their theirtrue colors real EQ, every time!

  46. January 29, 2014 11:50 am

    In response to “I had to laugh at somebody’s post in another thread that was defending Team and backed their argument with “and by next summer, I’ll be job optional!”….. Don’t be that guy.”


    I think I WAS that guy. However, I cannot find the page on which I had commented. I thought it was something along the lines of “Leaving Team and Orrin Woodward.” I believe I posted in August of 2012. I was wondering if that page still exists or if it was removed. I would like to go back and read the things I wrote. I may not have written with the utmost level of character and integrity. I always try to, but sometimes I portray an attitude that is not the best or the most positive. But I can honestly say that I am a changed man from where I was 18 months ago. More on that in moment…

    I recently had a relative send me links to this site (although I was already familiar with it), as if to say, “Here are reasons why Team/Life is evil.” While I can understand and appreciate what this site exists for, I generally don’t accept what is stated on the internet as “gospel,” especially if it contradicts what I have experienced personally and face-to-face with people whom I have known and interacted for several years. I understand that people have faced opposition, setbacks, trials and tribulations in business; I have had my own share of them myself. And while I empathize and have compassion for those people and their families, I will never use other people’s struggles as an excuse for me to not chase my own dreams. I will never let the possibility of struggles prevent me from entering the arena of achievement and succeeding for the sake of my family’s future.

    I am not mocking or dismissing anyone’s troubles, or even trivializing them with my word choice of “struggles” or “troubles”. I know that people have had hard times come; I personally know many who have. I just do not believe it is the fault or the responsibility of Life or Team. At least not in the cases I have seen. Personally, the financial struggles I have experienced have been my own mismanagement. The relational issues I have had, were mostly brought on by my own selfishness and carelessness. I am not perfect, and I never have been. But one thing that I refuse to do, is to surrender the battle to TRY to improve.

    My life HAS been changed through the Life product. I have become a better friend, a better son, and a better brother. I was estranged from my sister for 4 years over careless joking on my part. She and I have now been reconciled and have maintained a positive relationship for the past several months, including speaking several times a week. In the last 18 months, I have courted and married my best friend in the world, and we are now expecting our first child. My wife and I pray and study the Bible together, and we are leaders in our church in the area of youth and children’s ministry, as well as music ministry. She and I work together closely to build our business, and have seen lives change though it.

    (And perhaps answering the question you’ve wondered since the beginning of this post…)

    I am also happy to report that I retired from my job in September of 2013 (which, mathematically speaking, WAS “next summer”). My wife still has a job at a university because she is passionate about the work that she does. However, upon the arrival of our daughter in May, she will go on an indefinite “maternity leave,” and we will raise our daughter together as stay-at-home parents.

    Anyway, this post is not to boast or brag; the only boasting I do is in my Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ. However, I do want to point out that there ARE success stories in this industry, and it does not mean we are evil or have trampled on anyone to reach the level of success we have reached. We have been called to invest our lives into the lives of others and impact them for the better. We are doing that, and Lord has blessed us in the process.



  47. January 29, 2014 2:57 pm

    DM – Your previous comment made on 2012/08/11 is here:

  48. Vogel permalink
    January 29, 2014 3:46 pm

    DM, I don’t really see the connection between what you wrote and LIEf or with the the topic of this thread (i.e., PJ’s experience). I’m glad that you’re a happy camper and all, but I fail to see how that’s relevant.

  49. Anna permalink
    January 29, 2014 9:28 pm


    What percentage of your downline is profitable?

  50. freedomhaha permalink
    February 3, 2014 9:42 am

    Anna- 🙂

  51. I QUIT (and glad I did) permalink
    February 4, 2014 7:39 am

    and look… you got the same answer they all have!

  52. freedomhaha permalink
    February 6, 2014 9:15 am

    IQUIT- I figured it all out! It is not that the TEAM/LIFE/MOVAVIE members don’t want to answer the question it is that I am writing in magical ink that you can only read after the spells of the evil sorcerer Orrin wear off.

  53. chris permalink
    April 28, 2014 6:37 pm

    I love Claude Hamilton. Wayne Macnamara is my favorite dude out there. Crazy ass Canadians. Always talking about their “Mum” and Tim Horton’s. Coolest cats out there.

  54. noteam permalink
    April 29, 2014 5:58 am

    I’ll never forget Claude & Lana Hamilton bragging on stage about how their sponsor missed is own son’s graduation when he was Validictorian because they were out of town doing a meeting for Claude & Lana Hamilton. How disgusting!!!!! I thought the whole purpose of the business was to be there for your kids. What could be more important than your own childs graduation?

  55. amused permalink
    April 29, 2014 9:33 am

    More important that your own child’s graduation?
    Making money, of course. It’s the TEAM/LIFE way. Yep, very admirable.

  56. Sham-a-lama-ding-dong permalink
    April 29, 2014 9:59 pm

    I think from my past and current LIFE experience I watch people I totally understand the problem with them. People get in and that get it all backwards.

    First they look at edification and insteading of thinking “It’s cool these guys respect each other and talk well of one another” which is the intent. Instead they think ” 20 guys said Orrin is awesome.. Orrin must be Jesus!!” and then they worship ‘Jesus’ Orrin. Then they learn that Orrin is not actually the second coming of the risen Lord, he is in fact a business man. So he has an high interest for his own business and he is also a human so he has flaws. And it really bums people out I think when they figure out Orrin is not really Jesus. Cause that is pretty much how they act.

    Second, they have an employee mindset for business. Example : There is a sweet old man down the road from you. He runs a Funeral home. He has a great heart, he actually has kindness and some love in his heart for you. But when you have a heart attack, his main concearn is he wants to be the guy who puts your dead ass in his casket. Welcome to business. Does that make him horrible? Should he instead close his shop for your death so he can go to your funeral and morn your death. Would that make him a man of integrity?

    I bet Orrin wants you to change your life with his materials. But I promise you his main objective is to get you his materials first. It is called business ownership gang. Some people find this evil – they are called employees. The same people who wish they had it “easy” like their boss who gets the ‘big bucks’ while they slave a way. And the boss is like “God, these guys complain so much. It called work guys… it’s like this everywhere” That is the difference. This isn’t a job. If you want easy, secure money go get a job. If you want to raise you job limits own a business. I suggest this one. It is cheap to join and it teaches you ownership principals. Then if you quit and get a 500,000 dollar loam to buy a “real business” maybe you will have some knowledge to help you survive the horrible odds in that arena.

    Stop join a networking company and working it like an employee dang it people! You will end up running one of these sites with that attitude. Of course you start out making no money and have to climb up through recruiting customers. ITS A BUSINESS!!! If I had opened up a burger restaurant tomorrow here is what I would have to do.
    1. Pay money just to start that business.
    2. Recruit a customer base of people to buy my products.
    3. work hard and serve the customer.
    4. have a model where I get paid the most at the top, the people helping me get paid from most to least based on where they fit into the structure and then a whole bunch of people buying my stuff and not making any money off of the products I just sold them.
    WOW JUST LIKE THE LIFE BUSINESS!!! Sounds like a business!! toss some rebate scales for cutomer loyalty on it and some negative press behind me and now I own a illegal Burger scam. WooHooo!

    Also people learn to start learning the ‘message’ and stop worshipping the ‘messenger’ It is principal learning business not a deifying place of worship, None of the leaders teach that, you guys just do that naturally and its weird. And when you discover your up line is human and not the angel you envisioned, you get all bent out of shape. Consider them as human beings, and you wont be on a site in 2 years talking about howthe dude who gave you a cd is not Jesus and its horrible.

    [editor’s note: This comment was from Chris M. Please use the same handle so we can keep track of your comments.]

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