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He “Forgot” Again and Again and Again: More on Bill Lewis’ Property Tax Woes

September 2, 2013

Update March 6, 2014: If you are coming here looking for information on Jackie, please go to https://jackielewisblog.wordpress.com/ instead.

Update September 3, 2013: Lewis responds to this post in an addendum at the bottom of his Recent Lesson in Credibility post.


TEAM/LIFE Policy Council member Bill Lewis posted a response regarding his unpaid property taxes on the “Spanish Mansion” (Orrin Woodward’s former home in Grand Blanc, MI) earlier this week. In A Recent Lesson on Credibility, Lewis admits that he forgot to pay his property tax.

Over on the Genesee County Register of Deeds, there are several public record filings that show Bill Lewis has “forgotten” several times to pay his property tax. In one case, the property was foreclosed upon.

Here’s how to do the search yourself:

  1. Go to the Genesee County Register of Deeds website.
  2. Do a search for Lewis (last name) and William P (first name).
  3. Three listings will appear for William P Lewis, William P Lewis III, and William P Lewis IV. The first two are the ones for TEAM/LIFE Policy Council member, Bill Lewis.
  4. Check the checkboxes next to the two names to pull up the public real estate records.

Portions of these records are blacked out, but individuals can purchase the full records for a nominal fee from Genesee County. Records of note include:

  • March 1, 2007: Forfeiture of real estate property due to non-payment of property taxes1
  • February 25, 2009: Tax lien placed on a Flint, MI, property for unpaid taxes, penalties and/or interest.
  • April 29, 2009: Tax lien removed on Flint, MI, property due to payment of taxes, penalties and/or interest.
  • December 22, 2010: Memo of Land Contract between Bill Lewis and Orrin Woodward for the house whose property taxes were delinquent for nearly two years

There are many other records of real estate transactions to and from Bill Lewis contained in the public record. It’s clear from the ones listed above that Lewis has a demonstrated pattern of forgetting to pay his property taxes. One of those times ultimately led to the foreclosure of a property in Flint, MI. One might assume that a longtime property owner like Bill Lewis would learn from this teachable moment, but apparently this was again not the case with the Spanish Mansion.

As I previously wrote in my articles about the Round Table bankruptcies, the Quad Turbo 100 bankruptcy, a Round Table home foreclosure the strategic foreclosure by a TEAM Policy Council member, the point of these posts is not to revel in the financial misery of these individuals. The point is to show that these leaders who purport to be models of financial success are anything but. Neither Lewis nor his followers should put him up on a pedestal of financial responsibility if his records show otherwise.


1 The country sent another certificate of forfeiture of real property to Lewis in 2008. They later cancelled the certificate, and the reason was because the property had already been foreclosed.

63 Comments
  1. Rascal Teamster permalink
    September 2, 2013 6:53 am

    Alright, ya got me. Now I’m totallly confused. Something that Switch said on Aug 31 in the “Do as I say” thread. When talking about the land contract between Orrin and Bill, Switch said, “I’m willing to bet if a Lifer walks into a bank for a loan, the business isn’t credible enough to qualify.” That hurts my head! Someone help me out.

    It looks like Bill has a history of not paying his property taxes. I have owned two homes. I always pay my property taxes. It is not even an issue. See….when I got my loans, the bank urged me to pay into escrow to cover my loan, taxes, and insurance. Some banks will even give you a break on the interest if you use escrow. I would think they would even demand you do if you have a history of non payment.

    Couple questions:
    1) has Bill purchased all these homes on land contract, were they bank loans, or cash sales? (If these were cash sales, no escrow would be used)
    2) if land contract, is this because none of his prior businesses would “qualify” in the eyes of the bankers?

    In other words, do banks not view networking businesses as viable income they are willing to loan against? If a banker won’t trust a MLM business, how in the heck is it wise for anyone to trust it?

    Maybe I’m running this thread down a rabbit hole. If so, Amthrax, feel free to delete it. But I’ve always found it wiser to do what bankers do….not what bankers tell me to do. And why is it that out of all the occupations that I have seen in the MLM business, I haven’t met any bankers?

    Somethin’ smells poopy……

  2. ItsaPauling permalink
    September 2, 2013 7:26 am

    Was the forfeiture in 2008 on the Woodfield subdivision house? Or was he renting Woodfield? I sure believed they bought Woodfield.
    I might have my dates and houses mixed up.
    How do you lose a house like that then move to a bigger house? And buy expensive cars.
    If it was Woodfield, in 2008 property values were depressed in the area so this must have been a Guzzardo type strategic default?

    I bet Bill would not qualify for a mortgage of any kind.

    Many questions, and I may not have my dates and houses correct, Amthrax, feel free to correct or delete this.
    I only type this because something smells bad here.

  3. September 2, 2013 7:30 am

    @Rascal Teamster – A search on the website listed in the post has details on how the prior houses were financed. Some were through traditional bank financing. Some were through quit-claims deeds, and Orrin’s former house was via a land contract.

    Look at the county register of deeds website and familiarize yourselves with the information written into the public records. It’s pretty eye-opening.

  4. September 2, 2013 7:52 am

    @ItsaPauling – Go to the Register of Deeds website; all the information is clearly marked out there.

    The forfeiture was NOT on the Woodfield property. Woodfield was sold in August, 2010. If you enter the address of that property into Zillow or Trulia, you will see additional information like the sale prices in 2010 (when they sold the property) and 2005 (when the Lewis’ bought the property). There was a big drop in value in those 5 years.

    Read about the pros and cons of a land contract at these links:

    http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20090103101903AAllS5m
    http://realtytimes.com/rtguide/rtcpages/Land_Contract_Pros_And_Cons
    http://everydaylife.globalpost.com/pros-cons-real-estate-land-contracts-12731.html
    http://homeguides.sfgate.com/meaning-land-contract-7995.html and

  5. Vogel permalink
    September 2, 2013 8:57 am

    So now that everyone knows Bill is a chronic defaulter on his property taxes, will he have the good sense to abandon the obviously false “I forgot” story for something remotely plausible, or will he double down and claim that he has Alzheimer’s dementia and intermittent amnesia? Bwahahahaha.

    My favorite sport is watching how these cockroaches behave when the light of truth hits them.

    I crack up over the ironic title of his essay “A Recent Lesson on Credibility”. Looks like Bill keeps failing that lesson — again, and again, and again. Incredible!

  6. Vogel permalink
    September 2, 2013 9:02 am

    BTW, thanks for the information on land contracts. That explains a lot. Bill paying above-market price for the property thorough a land contract could have been because he would have never qualified (due to poor credit history) for a home-buyer’s loan through a bank. Still, the markup above market price was so high it would be nothing short of usury — how very un-biblical of Orrin.

  7. Melanie Morgan permalink
    September 2, 2013 2:06 pm

    Oh sweet Jesus, Bill, what now?!

    These guys are a disgrace to any leadership, and how do you cry HUMAN, now?…just keep doing what you’re doing, Bill.

    Their behavior more and more reminds me of the stories and excuses I heard from women when I was volunteering in the prison.

    Vogel~ You are a riot!

  8. Melanie Morgan permalink
    September 2, 2013 2:17 pm

    BTW Amthrax, Excellent work!🙂

  9. Melanie Morgan permalink
    September 2, 2013 7:21 pm

    How in the world (unless it be defiante & dileberately) does he not pay taxes and lose a house AFTER he is PC (2005-2006 went Pc)? And during the biggest time of growth in Team, March of 2007?

    April or May of 2007 we were at the fun-in-the sun trip and they were a PC. At PC they lead people to believe they are if not multi or at least millionaires, and they can’t pay their taxes to keep their house? Something is definitely not right. Would they be so arrogant or think they are above the law,?..blows my mind.

  10. September 3, 2013 10:24 am

    Lewis responded in an addendum on his recent lesson post:

    p.s. Just so they don’t say I am trying to hide from something. I also bought a $20,000rental property in downtown Flint 14 years ago. I paid of the property and rented it for a while. Eventually, we could not get anyone to rent the property. I even called the city to try and give them the house but they said they had so many they couldn’t use the ones they had. The city was doing a house clean up where they tear down old house. I stopped paying the taxes and the city claimed the house and tore it down.

  11. Wendy permalink
    September 3, 2013 12:07 pm

    So am I understanding Bill’s lesson correctly….don’t take care of your own obligation (pay for the house to be removed) if there is a way (don’t pay your property taxes) to have someone else (the fine citizens of Flint) take care of it? Now that, my friends, is CHARACTER Woodward and Brady LIFE style.

  12. Vogel permalink
    September 3, 2013 1:58 pm

    Bill Lewis said: “p.s. Just so they don’t say I am trying to hide from something…”

    Uh…you’re a dollar short and a day late there Billiam. Your delinquency/forfeiture on the other property was exposed here already. You have an uncanny knack for owning up (sort of) to these scandals AFTER you’ve been busted. This serves as additional evidence that you’re a dishonest huckster.

    So, too late — we can already safely say that you are “trying to hide from something”; lots of things in fact. And to think you and Orrin have all your lickspittles lined up in the blogosphere to kiss the virtual hem of your garment and call your a “HERO”! Unbelievable!

    Despicable lying clown!!!

  13. Vogel permalink
    September 3, 2013 2:50 pm

    The official address of the property that Lewis bought in 1999 and forfeited on 9 years later is “Stone-Macdonald-Kaufmann Lot 125”, also known as Parcel #4001377036 (c.f. Genesee County Records). This property is located at 110 Josephine St., Flint, MI (c.f. tax-sale.info). Lewis purchased the property for $28,750 (c.f. Zillow.com), not $20,000 as he had claimed in his follow-up post.
    http://www.co.genesee.mi.us/rod/SimpleQuery.asp?SUBMIT=Detail+Data&FirstName=w&LastName=le&Names=LEWIS%7CWILLIAM+P+III&SortDir=DESC
    https://www.tax-sale.info/pdf/11-03-2008-catalog.pdf
    http://www.zillow.com/homes/for_sale/Flint-Township-MI/398007_rid/43.035527,-83.702804,43.032853,-83.707197_rect/17_zm/1_fr/

    Google Maps shows an old clapboard house at this address (incidentally, this photo evidence contradicts Bill’s claim that the house was torn down by the City of Flint).
    https://maps.google.com/maps?ie=UTF-8&layer=c&z=17&iwloc=A&sll=43.034191,-83.704999&cbp=13,350.9,0,0,0&cbll=43.033968,-83.704950&q=110+JOSEPHINE+ST+FLINT+MI&ei=MFMmUv2fD4HnqwHa34GYCA&ved=0CC8QxB0wAA

    Bill claims that “eventually, we could not get anyone to rent the property”. However, by the looks of things, Bill was a slum landlord who let his property become irretrievably dilapidated and who defaulted on his tax payments; abandoning the property and leaving it as the responsibility of the city’s already overburdened taxpayers. Bill makes the laughably absurd claim that he “even called the city to try and give them the house but they said they had so many they couldn’t use the ones they had”, which is an obvious lie because they eventually did take the property away from Bill after he defaulted on the tax payments.

    Conclusion: Slum landlord, deadbeat tax cheat, poseur, parasite, liar — not a leader or a “hero” by any stretch of the imagination.

  14. Vogel permalink
    September 3, 2013 4:20 pm

    For what it’s worth, here’s a website that says that the Flint property that Bill Lewis defaulted on was the subject of a suspected arson job.
    http://batchgeo.com/map/2c88a6e7c31443d04184822244c618ad

    The evidence is incomplete, but if you ask me whether Lewis seems like the kind of desperado that would have a dilapidated slum property torched because he couldn’t afford to pay taxes on it and allegedly couldn’t even give it away to the City (by his own admission), I have to say yes, indubitably.

  15. switch permalink
    September 3, 2013 5:59 pm

    :shocked:

  16. Rascal Teamster permalink
    September 3, 2013 6:00 pm

    Yes, Bill was a self-admitted slumlord. So was Tim Marks. They both have told the stories from the Team stage about how they got into it when they bought into a certain individual’s real estate system. Now don’t laugh, but they were involved with Carlton Sheets.

    Remember that guy? Late night infomercials with the hard sell approach to his no money down real estate program?

    It almost bankrupted Marks. Not sure how Bill faired.

  17. September 3, 2013 6:23 pm

    Sounds like Uncle Orrey needs to find these guys a mentor. In the meantime, he needs to hire a cleaner, like Mike from Breaking Bad, to follow these jerkys around & wipe their bottoms. Un-frackin-believable.

  18. Vogel permalink
    September 3, 2013 8:59 pm

    OMG, not the infomercial guy! Why aren’t I more surprised? So how many scams must one fall for and how many miserable failures must they endure before they automatically get knighted with the title “leadership expert” and a seat on the PC. Pfft! Sucker council is more like it. Chortle!

  19. Memory Lame permalink
    September 3, 2013 8:59 pm

    Wendy, I LOVE your point! Even Bill’s explanation makes him look bad if true. It’s a no win situation really.

    You know what really bothers me though is not the “I forgot” excuse. Don’t get me wrong it’s a poor one at best. What really stinks about this fiasco and his response is his tone. Regardless of WHY he didn’t pay, his explanation is the equivalent of “I’m sorry, but YOU…wah wah wah” it’s not really an apology at all. There was a book on system once The 5 Love Languages of Apology – Bill must have forgotten that one.

    I can’t help but laugh at the irony though – it is always the taxes and the accounting that seem to be the end of gangsters.

  20. Charles permalink
    September 3, 2013 9:14 pm

    Ah yes, Carlton Sheets, never saw his infomercials but heard his advertisements on the radio and saw bits from his books. Glad I never fell for that nonsense either, as tempting as it sounded (more tempting than MLM, that’s for sure). Anyway, I love the guy’s addendum to his blog post where he couldn’t rent the property out and couldn’t pay the property taxes, so offering to give the property to the city makes it all right to not pay taxes, because that’s what the city needs – a dilapidated property that can’t be rented or sold, instead of the tax money. It’s not the city’s or anyone elses problem that you can’t rent a property out and doesn’t make your property tax obligations instantly go away either. While he probably wasn’t the only person to abandon a property in Flint, surely in these piles of Amway motivational cassettes and books, there must have been something said about honoring your own obligations and personal responsibility.

  21. The Truth Hurts permalink
    September 3, 2013 9:25 pm

    Taxes, and then State Taxes

  22. The Truth Hurts permalink
    September 3, 2013 9:34 pm

    A curious thing about the records Amthrax mentions. Now, being a person that looks over things..here is what I see.

    If one follows Amthrax post, then looks at Genesee County Register of Deeds, I see a Tax Lien. This appears to be for income tax. Interesting that a lien is filed for $3446.83 in February 09 and appears to be released in April 09. Interesting that taxes would be paid so late they went into lien status. Hmmm. That drawer has a lot of stuff in it..

  23. Freedomhaha permalink
    September 4, 2013 4:58 am

    Since Bill allowed Rocket’s comment on his blog I wonder if he would be man enough to allow one from Vogel. Just a thought Bill🙂 Isn’t it the best knowing that everything we write is seen directly by the PC?

  24. The Truth Hurts permalink
    September 4, 2013 7:11 am

    A Reality Check.

    Some people may think that posts on this Site are an intent to gloat over others failure. I for one do not subscribe to that way of Life, or thinking. In the deepest recesses of my heart, I am concerned..its all about victims here, and helping people to recover.

    If anyone tries to put themselves in public, claiming to be what they may not be, and, INFORMATION is readily available to the PUBLIC, then they deserved to be questioned, they deserved to be asked about it. The old saying “if you can’t stand the heat, get out of the kitchen” applies here. Another saying “the definition of Insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results” also applies.

    My concern is on a broad basis, even for those that purport to be something, or purport to be in a position that may not be entirely true…

    What is the long term gain for all of you? Are you financially free, do you have debt? I know how devastating this experience was for myself and others financially, and I also know how unstable such a thing can be. In order to keep the balls in the air, you must be constantly working, because the retention rate is less than desirable. Why is the retention rate so bad? Can all of those who stop and drop out really be LOSERS? Employ some critical thinking here.

    In the end, what do you have?
    A JOB looks mighty good; lets see the benefits..

    Regular pay,

    Possible medical insurance,

    Taxes paid to government, social security and medicare paid from pay check, and remember your employer pays their half too.

    Time home with Family; you may have so much time that you may even think of starting a small business!

    Community..Yep, you will have all your friends back, and can sit at kids games, go to concerts, tail gate, and generally enjoy life.

    Church. You can volunteer your time freely now, and help others to understand and come to the Lord. Remember, Jesus was far from rich while he walked the Earth. His teachings tell us riches are not MATERIAL. I seem to remember a story about Jesus throwing the Money Changers/Lenders OUT OF THE TEMPLE.

    I do have concern for those that get caught up in a plan that has no long term proven track record of decent income and good results for the many. I agree totally with the term FRUIT CHECK. Instead of show me the money, SHOW ME THE FRUIT.

    The 2 to 5 year plan is taking an awful long time to see fruit on the tree, don’t you think?

    Ask yourselves this question;
    ARE YOU BETTER OFF FINANCIALLY THAN YOU WERE WHEN YOU STARTED? Tell the truth to YOURSELF. How is your debt load, meaning mortgage, credit cards, etc. Is your income secure, can it be taken away in short order, or arbitrarily?

  25. Vogel permalink
    September 4, 2013 8:12 am

    PJ said:

    “Sounds like Uncle Orrey needs to find these guys a mentor. In the meantime, he needs to hire a cleaner, like Mike from Breaking Bad, to follow these jerkys around & wipe their bottoms. Un-frackin-believable.”

    Awesome! Funny combined with a Breaking Bad analogy (best show ever)…A+!

    Seriously though, that’s a great question and I’ve often wondered the same thing. The funny/sad thing is that these corrupt MLMs never hire anyone as competent as Breaking Bad’s Mike to clean up their messes. Instead they solicit bumbling clods like Troy Freakin’ Drooley and Scott Allen – both so staggeringly incompetent that it’s amazing they can manage to put their shoes on the right feet.

    https://amthrax.wordpress.com/2011/08/16/orrin-qrush-the-many-blogs-of-orrin-woodward-part-one/

    https://amthrax.wordpress.com/2013/01/09/paging-orrin-woodward-iab-shut-down-by-the-ftc-and-leadership-guru-status-revoked/

    It seems that scummy operations like LIEf have to rely on these bottom-rung a$$hats for damage control and whitewashing because no one competent would ever want to work on their behalf. I’d sooner starve than ever accept a nickel form such lying manipulative thieves.

  26. TruthSeeker permalink
    September 4, 2013 10:33 am

    @TheTruthHurts, while appreciating your nobility, and acknowledging your considerate and kind approach towards helping the “victims recover”, I for one love to GLOAT!

    Nothing gives me more joy (and entertainment) than watching these morons fall on their faces over and over again.

    Yes I lost several hundred thousands dollars in the scam, and nearly my marriage, but watching their self-created implosion is priceless.

    Amthrax serves many purposes, keep on helping those who need it, and I will keep laughing my ass off.

    bill, how does it feel to be orrin’s little girl? Better get away from the massah while you still can.

  27. Vogel permalink
    September 4, 2013 11:12 am

    Truth Hurts, I echo you sentiments about “Jesus throwing the Money Changers/Lenders OUT OF THE TEMPLE”. This biblical quote (Matthew 21:12) is my chief inspiration for combating the thieves and idolaters involved in MLMs like Monavie/TEAM/LIEf.

    And Truthseeker, I echo your sentiments about how doing these good deeds is so very entertaining.🙂

    No reason why throwing moneylenders out of the temple shouldn’t be fun, right?

  28. Melanie Morgan permalink
    September 4, 2013 12:41 pm

    The Truth Hurts~

    I feel the same way you do on all counts. I know how serious and destructive this is and has been in so many people’s lives. I am grateful for Amthrax and ALL the people on this site for what their unselfish ‘serving’ contribution to ‘HELP’ others.

    What I am entertained with though, is the people on here that call it like it is and call them out. They are hysterical, NEVER a dull moment and I am grateful for that! They make me laugh out load so many times! And so I find it true; Laughter is the best medicine!

  29. Nemo permalink
    September 4, 2013 1:06 pm

    If you go to the website/fb page Financial Fitness 47 you can see all the “great” advise from the Liefer’s. Must be Bill didn’t follow Principle 39?

    Financial Fitness 47
    September 2
    Principle 39: Be very, very careful as you make decisions about the danger zones: taxes, home ownership, divorce, credit cards, lawsuits, insurance, seeking status, college, addictions, and investments. Get good advice from your financial mentors, and study things in detail before taking action.

  30. Vogel permalink
    September 4, 2013 5:02 pm

    I think he might have been speaking from personal experience on each of those danger zones: taxes (not paying them), home ownership (ending in foreclosure), divorce (?), credit cards (maxed out and unpaid no doubt), lawsuits (Amway vs Orrin et al), insurance (arson?), seeking status (constantly), college (not going), addictions (10-to-1 odds it’s a yes), and investments (up in smoke…literally).

  31. September 4, 2013 5:08 pm

    Which is the greatest:

    1) The size of Vogel’s hammer
    2) The depth of Jill Guzzardo’s rich baritone voice
    3) The tightness of Emperor Woodwardtine’s grip on the PC marble sacks

    I’m going with #1 because it’s smashing PC to bits all over this site but I hope that doesn’t diminish the size of #2 & #3, they’re still both very massive.

    The further I get away from Team, the more I’m amazed at the level of blind allegiance to something that is so obviously flawed.

  32. Melanie Morgan permalink
    September 4, 2013 5:30 pm

    PJ~

    LMAO!!

  33. Vogel permalink
    September 4, 2013 6:12 pm

    I can’t help but blush when you speak so flatteringly about the size of my hammer.🙂

  34. switch permalink
    September 4, 2013 7:20 pm

    Here’s the bottom line….the man used “I forgot” for a sorry ass excuse to cover his actions. And at the same time, speaks from stage about “financial freedoms”?????….is that REALLY the path you lead, lewis….? That’s hysterical. Is it the arrogance that distracts you?

    Btw, what’s with orrin’s comment on “spilling the milk” and “cleaning it up”?…. that is so childish… does he have to remind you to wipe your a$$ too?

    Never know man…something smells ripe here.

  35. Vogel permalink
    September 5, 2013 7:18 am

    I too was struck by the absurdity of Orrin’s rambling milk analogy. He really beat that one into the ground; seemed like he was drunk when he wrote it:

    Orrin: “I learned a long time ago that spilled milk is a given in everyone’s life, but only leaders clean up the milk. YOU are a leader and I respect that greatly. Keep spilling milk and cleaning it up and then sharing it with others with the courage to admit they have spilled milk.”

    Easily the most unintelligent hamfisted comment of the week. This is what you get when Orrin doesn’t plagiarize his comments from other authors and decides to wing it on his own. Pfft…imbecile!

  36. Vogel permalink
    September 5, 2013 7:28 am

    BTW, have you seen this recent video of Orrin? Does he always seem this crazy? As I was watching, I kept thinking that he seems like he’s coming mentally/emotionally unraveled. He scares me in a Jim Jones kind of way…seriously…very disturbing. Is he on drugs perhaps, or has he always been like that?

    And please tell me, WTF is Orrin wearing on his wrist? It looks like an oversized brass porthole from the Titanic. Ha! How fitting!

  37. September 5, 2013 10:13 am

    I can’t count how many times I heard the TEAM “leaders” (and I use that term loosely) say, “Integrity is doing what’s right even if it costs you.” I guess Bill missed the boat on this one! And to think I used to look up to these guys!

    Does anyone else here remember the old George Carlin skit where he talks about using the term “I forgot” to explain away his mistakes…”I forgot that armed robbery was against the law.”? Bill must have been an avid Carlin fan, only in this case it’s not funny at all.

  38. September 5, 2013 11:25 am

    Question for everybody:

    What do you think the tipping point is those TEAM/LIFE members who have commented on Bill’s blog post in support of Bill’s admission? In your opinion, what else needs to be revealed about their leaders before they regain their critical thinking skills again and start questioning rather than blindly following?

    Second, if you were still part of TEAM/LIFE, how much more could you have taken? Would this have been enough for you?

  39. switch permalink
    September 5, 2013 2:39 pm

    I would probably say keep stating the facts and the truth that can’t be ignored such as this thread. The facts are the facts….but what’s funny is the run around they keep making to try and save themselves. The more they flap their gums, the worse they end up.

    If you honestly can’t see what’s going on here and still believe in all the Team Life BS, you certainly need a shit load of help…or heck, maybe even a miracle.

    Good lord is the team toilet so nasty.

  40. Rascal Teamster permalink
    September 5, 2013 2:41 pm

    Good questions, Amthrax.

    The tipping point for the current members, IMO, is if the cloud has no silver lining. If it can be shown that the leaders do not have the coveted lifestyle that all Team members dream about….if they are over extended, can’t pay their taxes, living well beyond their means, then the Team Dream is a farce. We’re getting close to that.

    One thing that shocks me is the number of land contracts for these mansions instead of conventional mortgages or cash sales (as I was lead to believe). I recently searched for Dan Hawkins mansion in Jefferson County, WI (http://www.jeffersoncountywi.gov/jclrs/LIO/parcelInfo.php?pnmun=004&pntown=05&pnrang=15&pnsect=21&pnqtr=32&pnid=000&Results=true&Results=true). I was shocked to find that his house was a land contract sale for $800K. Why no conventional mortgage? Why no cash sale as I was told? Is it that a Life PC size business still does not qualify for a loan, or the cash isn’t there? I don’t know. I just know that every time I turn around, that’s what I see…..big homes on land contract. We were lead to believe at the PC level you pay cash for everything, and you leave financing to the 95%’ers. I thought you were supposed to buy it only when you earned it. Guess not!?! Apparently that’s just what they tell the masses to do, while they buy on land contract and give the impression that’s what they do. It’s total deception.

    I don’t know how much more I could take if I was still in. I had had it when the Cullen and Darkangelo bankruptcies were discovered. Strategic or not, it does show an irresponsibility to one’s financial obligations. And it flew in the face of everything I had been being told. If someone had told me that Joe Darkangelo was carrying $200K in consumer debt, I’d have called them a liar. But there it is on his bankruptcy filings in our timeline with ZERO charitable donations. Really…ZERO??? Even I have charitable donations, and I’m broke.

    Also, when it was discovered that Abrahams, Freezes, and Dickies left due to a conflict with Orrin’s character, and not just decided to retire (or get fired) as I had heard, that was HUGE. In my heart I knew something was wrong. I deeply believed in those people, and if they chose God over Orrin, while the current life members chose Orrin over God, I had issues with the current members who stayed. It only took a call to a Berean Baptist church member friend to clear that up for me. Oh how I wish the Berean story could be told…..that would change the hearts of many. I was told by my upline that Pastor retired from Team stages. Another bold faced lie by my upline….who was an elder at Berean.

    Game over for me!

  41. LionChaser permalink
    September 5, 2013 6:42 pm

    Holy Cow! Orrin DOES act like a crazy man in that video! I couldn’t even stomache the whole thing.

    Amthrax, it seems like the ingredients that lead to the tipping point are ironically in each new “tool” these guys put out. There’s a red flag in everyone, but they’re hard to identify until some outside circumstance jolts you from the trance. The information here is SO valuable because it helps those who aren’t in yet and who have recently been jolted to see the flags clearly.

    2 things, in my opinion, would really affect massive numbers in the way I would like to see:

    1) A single cohesive video documentary including the timeline, the bankruptcies, and the testimonials of former members. Preferably burned to discs and placed in the windshield of team members at a major. (Not all of them would watch it, but enough would that it would certainly rattle their cages significantly.) A little “negative” WMD if you will, would go a long way.

    2) Pastor Dickie being open, honest, and BLATANT about why he left in a VERY public way. I realize this would mean significant trouble for him and his family possibly, but truthfully he could end SO much of this with his story from his own lips. But he would need to do so quickly for it to have any real effect. Every day a new sucker is born into this Band of Brothers & Woodward & Brady circus, that is too much of a babe to know who Pastor Dickie is. He needs to tell it while there are numbers enough of “leaders” who remember him.

  42. switch permalink
    September 5, 2013 8:04 pm

    Found some interesting facts on land contracts here if you’re lost…

    http://homeguides.sfgate.com/pros-cons-land-contract-2606.html

    so basically, you’re renting to buy. You don’t own $HIT with a land contract…

  43. Vogel permalink
    September 5, 2013 9:06 pm

    …smoke and mirrors…

  44. noteam permalink
    September 6, 2013 4:40 pm

    Lionchaser – I agree. We need to be more pro-active. The majority of sheep do not know the specific name of this site and have never seen it. If a bunch of us banded together to put signs outside major functions, I bet A LOT of people would be curious to check it out.

    If they could see some of these articles on the bankruptcies, foreclosures, fake guru status, Amway lawsuit loss info, lists of all the leaders who left – I bet the word would start spreading throughout Team/Life land, and fast.

    It’s not a matter of being negative. It’s a matter of saving thousands of unsuspecting victims from all the money and time these scamsters cost us. I sure would have been appreciative if someone had gotten the message to me sooner. Remember, all it takes for evil to triumph is for good people to do nothing.

    We must do something more. I am willing.

  45. confused permalink
    September 7, 2013 7:10 am

    What did happen with Pastor Dickie? I loved his teachings!

  46. The Truth Hurts permalink
    September 7, 2013 10:00 am

    Amthrax, I am thinking about your question; just what would be the tipping point for someone to realize the NAKED TRUTH in all it’s ugliness when they finally see it, when it becomes so glaringly apparent that you CANNOT ignore what you know any longer. This may be a lengthy post, but if I open one person’s eyes, than it has been worth every minute it took to relive the feelings, and to tell the whole story.

    I can only speak from personal experience, and, what many people I know went through; financial and emotional devastation. The question is, what is it like to go from total belief to realizing that not only the is the Emperor weaving some tall tales, but there are no clothes to cover what you have finally figured out..the naked truth hits you like a wallop right between the eyes, and it is devastating, mind numbing and painful.

    For me, my journey to seeing the Naked Truth started in the back of a Tool Room at a Seminar. I remember when we were told it was our duty to help out; you did it for your Team, and you were more or less required to help at a Seminar/function when asked to. The sad part of this is that not only were these functions making a boat load of dollars for the Leaders, but they were smart enough to have people not only pay for their own ticket, but work for free. NOW think that one through for a minute..I PAID TO ATTEND, and I WORKED FOR FREE TOO! Brilliant on their part..but maybe not.

    Being a discerning individual, my eyes were opened! I would sincerely like to send a BIG THANK YOU TO THE LEADERS for the experience. I could not deny what my eyes beheld, and it was my EYE OPENER. I really mean this; if I had not seen all the boat load of cash (they had not yet started taking credit cards for tools) coming through the back end of the tool room, not been a part of recording and keeping track of it at that Function/Seminar, I would have probably frittered away a lot more HONESTLY earned money on this debacle.

    I remember seeing all the Cash, watching how it was kept track of, thinking, wow, this is all about the Tools, herding in the masses. Selling hope is referred to in the Forbes Article, and nothing could be more true. I left early, and I felt sickened as I looked at all those people in the audience, dressed in suits, trying to look like they were making money, wanting so badly to “make it”, to have what the Leaders had..or maybe as we know now, what it LOOKED LIKE they had.

    I thought a lot about what I had seen with my very own eyes as I drove home, many thoughts whirling through my head. I thought of the People, my Up Line, who had seemed so sincere, I examined each one of them in my mind on the long drive, wondering which one was for real, or, indeed were they all Charlatans and Deceivers?

    I arrived home and decided not to talk to anyone in the “Biz” for 2 days. Instead, I immediately set about putting pencil to paper, figuring out roughly how much “the take” had been from the Function I had just attended; the amount was staggering, even by my modest calculations.

    I made a decision to wait, not to quit, for two months. During that time, I would continue on as usual, keeping my reservations to myself. I resolved to no longer listen to any tape/CD during this two month period. I decided to share my thoughts with absolutely no one, not even Family. and by Family, I do not mean the Adams Family/Biz, but my blood family.

    I attended each open, looking like an industrious note taker, but I don’t think my notes would have been approved by Up line. I was really there to accumulate TRUE information, and by not being lulled by the Smoke of the system tapes/CD’s, I could see more clearly as each week went past.

    When I was not being puffed smoke by the system drivel, mine eyes were opened, truly; clarity returned. I spent the remainder of my two months listening carefully to people I thought were Leaders, or up and coming “big builders”. Hypocrisy does not adequately explain, I can think of no one word that could. I drove away from my last meeting, looked in the rear view mirror and realized big and painful changes were about to take place in my Life.

    I called the next day to get off system; my Up line asked me why, and not wanting to have an altercation (I genuinely liked this couple) I just said I had so many tapes/Cd’s that I would just listen to what I had for a while.

    I removed every item of Biz stuff from my home, and relegated it to one Closet. I also immediately stopped my voice mail through Q.

    I called all those I held dear, all that I had sponsored (that would listen) and explained my decision to disengage from the Biz. Some have never spoken to me again. Some are still my good friends. My Platinum Up line and I did not speak for about 3 to 4 years; when I found out they had quit, we started up our friendship again. I was glad to be able to listen when they shared some of the disillusionment of the experience with the Biz. I am delighted to have them back in my Life, and I know we will always be friends.

    I took stock of my financial position, and had to admit to myself I was dead broke. I went over my records and wanted to slap myself. It took over a year for me to be able to forgive myself for having ever been involved at all.

    The most revealing thing for me was when the split happened. I had an experience with a Leader after I quit that was, shall we say, less than nice, that I shared with someone still in the Biz that I was still in contact with. I was contacted during the split by someone we all knew from stage, someone from the “Company”; they had heard the rumor and asked me to elaborate. I made the choice to tell the TRUTH; really, was there any other choice? In the end, I discovered how decent these people really were; they were not what they had been portrayed to be, to put it in a nutshell.

    Here and now, I make this offer. How about a Summit? I invite the “Leaders” specifically the top dog/gun, to meet to discuss differences. Think about it, if our President can have a Beer Summit, why can we not sit down and have our own Summit? We could call it the Red Sea Summit. I have no ax to grind, do they? The truth should not be feared for it will set you free.

    I am sure that we each could agree upon some conditions. I offer the following, I am serious, I would welcome the chance to sit and talk in a mannerly and professional fashion. I bear no ill will.

    We each agree to the Red Sea Summit being filmed by our own Camera Men/Women.

    We each agree that the film will be made available, without edit, to the Amthrax Site within 2 months of the close of the Red Sea Summit.

    We each agree to be courteous at all times; no raised voices, and no less than civil language will be bandied about during the Red Sea Summit.

    We each agree to have Legal Representation at the Summit, one Lawyer for each, for a total of 2 lawyers present, and we each agree that no lawsuit will ever develop from anything discussed at the Red Sea Summit. We each will sign an agreement stating the same.

    We each agree to have witnesses, up to 4 each, for a total of 8 witnesses at the Red Sea Summit; these witnesses cannot be a legal Professional in any capacity. These witnesses can ask questions, if they do so under the terms of the Red Sea Summit; manners first.

    We each agree to have Pastor Dickie present at the Red Sea Summit.

    We each agree to meet and hold the Red Sea Summit at a neutral location.

    We each agree that during the Red Sea Summit we will either have lunch or dinner together (depending on the time) but each side will pay their own tab.

    If the Top Dog/Gun Leader agrees with the idea of a Red Sea Summit, he can easily post acceptance on this Site. If such acceptance is posted, I would ask Amthrax if he would be able to facilitate communication between both parties. I would also state that agreement to participate in the Red Sea Summit by both parties does not entitle either party to know exactly who is going to be at the Summit until a signed agreement of terms for the Red Sea Summit can be executed. This would take place before the actual meeting.

    The subject and words related above are based entirely on my own personal experience, and my opinions solely. I intend no harm to anyone who chooses to pursue what ever endeavor they choose.

  47. September 7, 2013 4:49 pm

    I think the tipping point would be some of them in handcuffs. Until then, they’ll keep churning through the new folks & the snakes will continue to eat the crumbs that Pied PC lay out for them in hopes for the serious cash down the road.

    Vogel, I shall speak of your hammer no more🙂

  48. Chrisxrascal permalink
    September 7, 2013 5:33 pm

    It seems again the Leaders of team will make excuses, yet tell others not to make excuses. Aren’t leaders supposed to be held to higher standards? These so called leaders are mentoring many people, yet don’t take their own advice.

    The tipping point for me was asking questions and the right questions to team and not hearing a straight forward answer from them, Just follow the trends of teams past and you end up at the same spot. How far are they to a million people? What’s their attrition rate? Where did team originate from? How many people are making a net profit? How long did it take? What happened to MonaVie? Why are the leaders of Team so focused on people not coming on to this site? Why do Teamsters applaud the leaders with such high praise when they’re “only human” and “mere mortals”? What product am I selling? Is it a pyramid scheme? Why do I have to pay for these meetings?…I could go on.

    I believe people are sold on the hope of financial gain and the credibility and the integrity of the Leaders and are peer pressured in a group setting.

    I believe if people asked the tough questions, did their detective work they would see the reasons not to join or stay in team. People I think need to realize what their giving up…to be on team and losing time, money, family and sleep, not to mention your own conscience.Is it worth it? My opinion, not worth the cost of admission.

    [Editor’s note: fixed some misspellings]

  49. Melanie Morgan permalink
    September 8, 2013 9:55 am

    There are as many tipping points as there are people. The more facts revealed, the more the fantasy world crumbles.

    DOUBT is their biggest enemy.

    When each person has the initial crack (doubt) in the too-Good-to-be-true fantasy world glasses, the ‘jolt’ is needed then slowly but inevitably the gap gets wider and they begin to question, stop blindly and unconsciously listening, and begin to open their eyes.

    Every discrepancy that is exposed; proving what they say and what they do is doubt creating and eye opening and when they scurry like rats to cover their tracks, try and buy and game their false reputation, sue people into silence, only reveals more of their evilness and greed; who they really are. For the followers this creates, doubt and their internal battle begins. There lies the ‘hope’ for their exit.

    I agree with P J , the ultimate tipping point is for them to be fully investigated and behind bars and if or when that would ever happen even then I bet you would find some who would still worship and defend him as if he did no wrong. That is the power of their demanded edification. But then even Charles Mason, I read, gets more mail than any other inmate. Orrin’s mannerisms remind me of Charles Manson in the video, just my opinion.

    BTW- that video of Orrin is exactly how Orrin is and clearly shows him in action, Ansy to show how superior he believes he is, strokes the other person’s ego, so they return the favor, then always brings it right back to how great he is.You can learn a lot from that video.

  50. The Truth Hurts permalink
    September 8, 2013 11:27 am

    Talk about tipping points..

    After some thought, I would say most of the People I knew in the “Biz” stayed in the beginning because a personal friend had sponsored or brought them in to the group. It is harder to tell your Friend you don’t want to belong, so in a way it is harder to get out because of the relationship aspect of it. Most think that they know their friend would do nothing to harm them, so they stay longer than they would have in the first place..during that time the system begins to take affect.

    I very much do think a Summit is a good idea. I have a keen and avid interest in capturing on film what transpires. I think it would be very educational to hear the Top Dog/Gun explain how the “Biz” helps others.

    I seem to remember something..hold it, yep it’s coming back to me, I learned it from my Up line, and the Big Leaders, what was that saying.. was it figures don’t lie, but liars sure can figure? Help me on this one Guys if I don’t have it right. Again, the nuggets of wisdom I learned have born so much fruit..I am so grateful for the following..which I have now entrenched into my life as a measure when looking at new and possible opportunities..

    Here are the nuggets that will change your Life.

    The definition of Insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results.

    Fruit Check. Does the person telling you something really have Fruit on the Tree? Are they looking good but only on the surface?

    A two to five year plan..Now this is VERY TRUE..I just didn’t get what the plan was.. due diligence is the key!

    If the dream is big enough the facts don’t matter.
    Taking this saying at face value, this would mean that I can jump off the Ambassador Bridge, thinking I will be fine, and I will, because my dream is what counts. I’ll even up the stakes; how about the Big Mac Bridge? Anyone with me?

    Now a word about looking at any business opportunity.

    If you are looking at a business, you will see figures up front. Once a Seller knows the Buyer is serious, normally at least 5 years of tax return history are given to the potential serious Buyer to demonstrate the historical potential of the Business for Sale. These figures also should justify the price being asked.

    If anyone tells you they will not show you tax returns, run like the hounds are at your heels, and don’t turn around.

  51. The Truth Hurts permalink
    September 8, 2013 11:47 am

    Thought I would add this..one does not go into a business opportunity to become a better person.

    Call it what it is..you are either in a hobby or a business.

    A hobby is generally not tax deductible in most cases.

    Ask yourself these questions..

    Would you give up time with Family on a consistent basis for a Hobby?

    Carefully look at your costs. What product will you be selling? Are you buying a membership? If so, what are the terms of that Membership?

  52. September 9, 2013 9:38 am

    Correct me if I’m wrong, but if you default on a land contract, doesn’t the property go back to the original owner? I’m almost positive that’s true since it happened to my grandfather’s property that was under land contract. That being the case, it makes total sense that the big leaders only sell their homes to other TEAM members. That way they can continue to show the FALSE “fruit” on the tree (Bill and Jackie live in a mansion that they can’t afford) and Orrin isn’t worried about losing his asset since it will return to him if/when Bill and Jackie default on it. It’s a win-win for Orrin, like everything else on TEAM.

  53. September 9, 2013 9:53 am

    @ The Truth Hurts

    I totally agree with you that working the Tool Room was an eye-opening experience and it contributed to our leaving the TEAM. First off, it ticked me off that we were expected to pay for our ticket and then miss part of the seminar to sell tools. The leaders always told us you don’t want to miss a minute of the seminar, but we missed hours of the talks while in the Tool Room. Toward the end of our time with TEAM, I was actually glad to miss the speakers because it was the same stuff over and over again – I had already heard it all.

    The other thing that made us sit up and take notice, was the people who came up to pay for their tools who obviously couldn’t afford it, but were encouraged by their upline to “make the investment” in their future. I always felt so sorry for those poor souls since I knew they were only digging themselves in deeper. They were moving further away from financial independence, not closer to it. I knew then that the financial “F” was not being taught correctly and if THAT wasn’t correct, where any of the “F”s being taught correctly? Just another crack in the facade.

  54. Rascal Teamster permalink
    September 9, 2013 9:55 am

    Yes, if you default on a land contract, it goes back to the owner. A land contract is like a rent-to-own deal.

    I bought 80 acres on land contract when I was still in college….broke college kid with no credit, but I could make the payment.

    The only thing that really prevents the buyer from just walking away is the seller gets 20% down (that’s standard).

    So if Bill defaults in this case, Orrin not only gets the house and all the monthly payments, but he gets to keep the $200K down payment too.

  55. Results Focused permalink
    October 22, 2013 11:51 am

    If you guys took the time to study YOUR results as much as others, you all would be financial free by now. Focus on what YOU are doing to leave a true legacy for the next generation.

  56. Vogel permalink
    October 22, 2013 2:34 pm

    Spaz! I’m helping the next generation avoid pyramid scheme swindlers.

  57. Melanie Morgan permalink
    October 22, 2013 2:36 pm

    HahaHaha!

  58. noteam permalink
    October 22, 2013 9:57 pm

    Results Focused – We are trying to focus on our results – our results of saving the tens of thousands of potential innocent victims that have no idea this so-called “One night a week, $50 a month business” will actually end up costing them tens of thousands of dollars and hundreds and thousands of hours of lost time with their kids, their spouse, their church and will wreck the lives of the people they care about the most.

    All it takes for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing. We will not allow evil (LIFE) to triumph. We will do everything we can to get the truth out about this scam and the lives they have ruined.

  59. Melanie Morgan permalink
    October 23, 2013 10:11 am

    Results focused-

    Please, Define what”financially free” means to you.

    Since you think you know what everyone SHOULD be doing with their time and studies.
    I will say that Ian’t your right and perhaps you ought to focus on controlling your own.

    I control my own time and quite frankly I detest anyone who thinks they own or control my life or time..But I will tell you we couldn’t be more productive, happy and “finacially free” (meaning in This case no debt in more ways than monetary) from TEAM/LieF…

    .So define clearly and.let us know when you fit your definition . ..and who and how many on your team and the whole team are and then share their gross income…the facts…when they achieve it because I have a feeling your definition you have blindly accepted is not what the rest world would believe or considered “finacially free”. Especially if it includes your over all profit… Just a hunch.🙂

    Did you want to comment now on the topic of the thread rather than completely avoid it? Or were you trying to be a notorious Leader (in LIFE) and-Shift the real issue here and tell everyone what they should do with their lives? Do you feel mislead or that something isn’t’ congruent between the actions and “mentoring/teaching” of Bill lewis or perhaps you can see the lack of leadership, responsibility or lack of integrity displayed, no? Or do you give them a pass and the rest of world you Will judge?

    I really hope you open your eyes.

  60. Melanie Morgan permalink
    October 23, 2013 11:05 am

    Results focused-

    I apologize I meant net income or income after exspenses. Not that it matters, doubt you will be back 99% never do nor do they EVER address the real issues. They apparently need a place to practice what they are taught in LieF. But betcha 99% come back to read🙂

    Just some food for thought…check out the FACTS and really ‘study’ them. Then learn and understand what cognitive dissonance means. And lastly pick a book by Steve Hassan or visit his website, pyramid scheme alter, juice scam, or other various websites and then decide THINK. Good luck.

  61. Helloeze permalink
    March 5, 2014 10:50 pm

    Probably not the right place to post this But my friend who is in Life just told me Jackie Lewis passed away of a mysterious illness after she returned from trip to Puerto Rico. Very sad even if I think these people are charlatans

  62. March 6, 2014 7:12 am

    @Helloeze and all: More information on this unfortunate situation can be found here: http://jackielewisblog.wordpress.com

    Comments are now closed on this post.

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