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Bonvera and Extroda, the new MLM and Tools company from Tim Marks and other Ex-TEAM/LIFE Members

January 17, 2016

Bonvera is the new multi-level marketing company from former LIFE Policy Council member Tim Marks and key ex-LIFE members. Extroda is the new “system” or company that will teach someone how to build a successful Bonvera company.

There’s a launch video about Bonvera that will be familiar to anyone who has ever been prospected by or participated in an MLM venture. What does Bonvera sell today? Energy drinks and bars.

Stop me if you’ve heard this story before.

The company says that they “won’t stop adding products” until they have “everything you want.”

We’ll see about that. It would be instructive to know the manufacturer that creates Bonvera’s Phyzix-branded energy drinks and energy bars. It would not surprise me if that manufacturer made other white-label products for other companies (including potentially other MLM companies).

From the Bonvera trademark application, here is a list of markets that the company may be selling in the future:

Multilevel marketing business services featuring energy drinks, energy bars, nutritional supplements, personal care products, cosmetics and skin care products, consumer electronics, general consumer merchandise and general consumer goods, home furnishings, and home appliances, household cleaners, soaps, laundry products, jewelry, pet supplies and health aids; Providing a website featuring information on multi-level marketing business services; Providing and implementing incentive and awards programs for independent sales representatives to promote the sale of products and services to others and the recruitment of additional independent sales representatives; Computerized online ordering services featuring energy drinks, energy bars, nutritional supplements, personal care products, cosmetics and skin care products, consumer electronics, general consumer merchandise and general consumer goods, home furnishings, and home appliances, household cleaners, soaps, laundry products, jewelry, pet supplies and health aids

Remember that the principals behind Bonvera and Extroda once were a part of Amway at the turn of the century before leaving unceremoniously in 2007. Between 2008-2011, they were at MonaVie, selling high-priced purple juice concentrate packaged in wine bottles. Later, they hawked leadership products for LIFE from 2011 to the end of 2015. Here’s a video of Tim and Amy Marks when they were part of MonaVie:

And another when Marks was promoting LIFE:

On Twitter, Bonvera distributors are seemingly pumped, tweeting our their excitement for their new venture.

Someone needs to remind them that it’s 2016, not 1999. Remember when Quixtar was going to lead the e-commerce charge?

Joe Darkangelo is recycling an old phrase of his from his MonaVie days (substitute juice for drink):

The Extroda system costs $49.95/month and includes 8 downloadable files each month and some kind of presentation to share the opportunity with others. Will there also be weekly seminars, monthly meetings and quarterly major functions? Will the cost to attend those functions be similar to the ones in the LIFE business?

Here are some tweets from the Bonvera launch events in Toledo, Ohio and Tampa, Florida this week:

Some questions:

  • How many of those people were formerly part of the LIFE business?
  • How long they’ve been planning this departure behind the backs of the leaders of LIFE?
  • How long have they been dissatisfied with the LIFE business?
  • How long have they been posting positives about the LIFE business on social media while at the same time talking with others about how they were going to leave?
  • At what point did the leaders in LIFE know that a mass defection was being planned?

It’s interesting to compare and contrast the tweets from Bonvera/ex-LIFE members and those still in LIFE. Will there be passive aggressive tweets from those still in LIFE? Do Bonvera members have any parting shots (veiled or unveiled ) at LIFE?

Readers – If you find any, post them in the comments section below.

It will also be worth watching the Twitter accounts of these new Bonvera members over time to see if their enthusiasm remains the same or wanes one, two, or three years down the road.

Finally, here’s a YouTube video from HBRN’s Leadership Factory with Tony Cannulli and LIFE founder Orrin Woodward. Their guest on this episode was Tim Marks, who talks about his book Voyage of a Viking and how he turned defeats into lessons for future victories:

Something tells me that Marks won’t be appearing on a future segment of this show.

242 Comments leave one →
  1. January 17, 2016 10:57 am

    The newest Zombie Apocalypse in action! Just a different flavor Kool-Aid… 🙄

  2. January 17, 2016 11:06 am

    Good Lord. More energy drinks and food bars. Ugh. I guess when everyone is a follower (including the leaders) then it’s tough to get new concepts to take root.

    Funny how the actual products never seem to be on the forefront and whether or not people need energy drinks or food bars is a very debatable topic.

    Still trying to figure out if this is funny or dad. Curious what the TEAM crew think of the defection. That’s going to make that whole, “onward to a million” thing tough to reach.

  3. January 17, 2016 11:07 am

    Apparently, being ‘free’ with the LIFE business doesn’t mean being free to do what you want. If the former 3rd top LIFE guy (Tim Marks) couldn’t earn his freedom and had to give up his LIFE biz, what makes the rest of you think that you can?

    In other words, if you’re not at the top of the pyramid (LIFE, Bonvers, or any other MLM), enjoy your 2nd shift servitude and enjoy not really owning your own business.

  4. Mark Blocher permalink
    January 17, 2016 5:03 pm

    I’ve been reading posts on this site for a number of months and find it amazing that someone would spend so much time trashing people and companies. I originally came here for information and honest critique of companies. What I see is post after post by bitter people who find it entertaining to rip individuals and companies. You can call it performing a valuable service by “exposing” frauds, scams, etc., but what I see is a persistent spewing of gossip, innuendo and character assassination. Grow up!

  5. January 17, 2016 5:47 pm


    I hope you stick around long enough to let others engage your comment and put it to the test.
    Most ppl don’t stick around bc they can’t handle the scrutiny. Let’s hope you do. It would do you good.

  6. January 18, 2016 6:51 am

    I decided to investigate what this company was after a “friend” (more like acquaintance) from Facebook kept spamming every day about “If you shop on line and would like to save money them Bonvera is the answer” and “This is the pace setter for e-commerce. Bonvera.” The most outrageous claim was: “Bonvera is here. Remember that name. Will be known just as Amazon only better.”

    First off, I forgot the name Bonvera minutes after reading the above post saying it would be known just as Amazon but only better. Like really, I think I snorted in laughter after reading that. I’m not saying an Amazon-challenger Can’t come along, but I don’t see how a pyramid scheme company (which is what Bonvera seems to be) can rival Amazon. Yes, I’ve heard the story (or folk legend?) about how Amazon started out selling books (which is not disputed) and they had a bell that dinged every time they got an order. The story goes that they had to disconnect the bell after it began dinging non-stop. So is it possible that Bonvera could be the next Amazon? Sure…I guess.

    First off, though, their website doesn’t even appear live yet. It just says “Launching Soon” on their website. My question is, will this be another direct seller type company like Thirty-One Gifts or Avon or any of the countless other direct sales companies.

    I don’t wish them ill, I just don’t think the outlandish claims of some of their supporters will end up living up to the hype, that’s all.

  7. Littledufflebagboy permalink
    January 18, 2016 7:32 am

    Woke up to my former sponsor texting me about the new opportunity. Haven’t spoke to himself or Jim Martin in 4 years since I left. Lol gonna be the Walmart of the Internet hahaha what a joke. Exactly it’s 2016 not 1999. Also the text said they are going head to head with Amazon lol good luck wasting your money and time some more. I’m good I LOVE what I do now. Chasing my own dreams not someone else’s. I have my dream career and life. Not screwing my friends and family in order to make a dollar. 🙂 cheers to 2016 and doing what YOU want, not some crap “business”

  8. January 18, 2016 7:41 am

    @dayne878 – thanks for posting your thoughts.

    It’s par for the course for MLMs to frequently use hype and outlandish claims in the attempt encourage people to get involved and to buy more product and support materials.

    Are you more inclined to unfollow or defriend your friend/acquaintance if s/he continues to post Facebook spam that appears on your timeline? I have not posted much on the annoyance factor of social media posting by MLM participants has on friends/family who are not involved.

  9. Rascal Teamster permalink
    January 18, 2016 8:10 am

    Does anyone have any insight on the timeline for their four phase roll out? If they don’t have that set in stone, then I would surmise that they do not have the numbers to create their product business. In that case, they’ll be hawking Phyzix for a looooong time.

    Mark Blocher, to quote Orrin Woodward, “a man with an experience is never held at the mercy of a man with an opinion.”

    Grow up? Seriously junior, unless you have personal experience with these people as we have had over the past 12 years, you need to tone it down. Just because the FTC never dropped the hammer on Team doesn’t mean they’re innocent. It just may mean they’ve never been big enough to be worth the govt’s time. That doesn’t mean that they’re not snakes or haven’t crushed thousands of families. Many of us know of things that if brought to court would end them up with prison sentences.

    If you have worked with them and still feel this way, it’s only because you are still one of them.

    If you are in the group who has never been a part of their many business ventures, go ahead and join them. We’ll see you in two years joining us. This group does all our recruiting for us, and you sound just naive enough to be a strong member of ours in the future. I look forward to working with you.

  10. Rascal Teamster permalink
    January 18, 2016 8:59 am


    On second thought, forget what I said. I’m not sure I want to work with you in the future.

    You see, I know why I’m here and posting. I’m not whining about the $5,000 a year I lost with them. I had that to lose. I’m here to help save others from being taken advantage of. I hurt dozens of people because of their lies who didn’t have the money to lose. And I almost trashed a marriage in my downline.

    But you, man, you pretty much called us pathetic and told us to grow up. At the same time, you said you’ve been reading this for months.

    Talk about us having too much time on our hands and wasting our lives. What does it say for a person who hates what they’re reading, because it makes them mad but can’t stay away? You either need therapy, or your with Tim Marks and this post threw you over the edge.

    You sound like a guy who posts on Facebook about how much he hates Facebook, or the guy who complains about how much porn there is on his DVD player.

    I went from feeling sorry for you to amused by you. I suggest you stop trolling us.

  11. January 18, 2016 9:28 am

    Rascal Teamster is so right.

    Most of us have been through the following steps:

    1) Someone you trust pitches “an opportunity” that speaks to you on some level.

    2) You figure “What the hell? I’ll listen. My friend wouldn’t try to sign me up for a scam”.

    3) You Google one of the “leaders” and find this site. You read testimonial after detailed testimonial of people who’ve risen up through the leaders’ previous MLMs and found it to be a scam.

    4) You point this out to your recruiter. They tell you that we’re a bunch of whiners, quitters, dream crushers, etc. Your heart tells you something’s not right but…

    5) You sign up anyway because “you’re already doing ‘it’ anyway” and you can get free/make money just by “sharing ‘it’ with a few friends”. ‘It’ varies depending on the MLM. For LIFE, it was ingesting leadership material. For Bonvera, it’s shopping on the Internet.

    6) A business that was pitched as a casual time commitment becomes a 2nd shift strain on you, your wallet, and your family. You are pressured to attend weekly, monthly, and quarterly meetings, all on your own dime and your own time because “you want to be free, don’t you?”

    7) After a few months, you realize that, not even taking time into account, you’re losing money. Products, tools, food, gas, hotels, even the meetings you have to attend, their costs greatly exceed your income. (By the way, at the end of the year, your tax return does not lie.)

    Here’s where the line is drawn. You either

    a) are honest with yourself, chalk up your experience to sunk cost, and move on.


    b) continue the sham and become the scam by continuing to push this on friends and strangers even though you know they’re going to fail because after expenses, you’ve never made money.

    You can call us haters, that’s fine. Don’t believe us, go research yourselves and read the court files on the current leaders (the Amway suit against Marks and the former LIFE MLM, the Newton, Darkangelo, and numerous other bankruptcies). If you’re not lying to yourself, you’ll come to the same conclusion.

    Save yourself the trouble and find another business avenue. MLMs cannot work for you unless you’re at the top. Plain and simple.

  12. January 18, 2016 10:12 am

    I have a friend who was actively recruiting me for Life Leadership and he just announced that he had resigned from Life Leadership and is now with Bonvera. He is now actively recruiting me for Bonvera. I’ve tried MLM with many different companies before and I am definitely not going to be doing it ever again.

  13. Mark Blocher permalink
    January 18, 2016 10:22 am

    Unfortunately, the comments directed toward me are what I expected and only reinforce my main point. By the way, just because I don’t care for your gossip on this site doesn’t mean I worship Woodward or any of the people you continually attack. You are still bitter, nasty people even after years have passed. Yes, grow up!

  14. Rascal Teamster permalink
    January 18, 2016 10:28 am

    Thanks PJ, but Mark, I’m apparently not done with you yet. Your ignorance really irked me.

    Let me spell this out for you. This is a TOOL SCAM!!! They’ve even created a new Corp to run the scam….Extroda…but probably more like Extruda (as in extruding money from you).

    Last Friday I needed to get a couple bearings for a 30 yr old Wheel Horse snowblower. Obsolete and none available anywhere within 100 miles of me. However my dad, who has Amazon Prime, found them. He just called me five mins ago to tell me they’re in.

    I said, “you still like Amazon Prime?” He relied, “I can download unlimited movies. They loan me books. I can find anything I need, including things I can’t find here locally. They ship it to my house for free in two days. What’s not to like? You should seriously look into it.”

    No frigging circles drawn. No hour long uncomfortable session in someone’s home. That was the WHOLE sales pitch. An FAQ page, and a How To Use This Website page is Amazon’s entire business system.

    But Tim Marks and Mark Paul, et al. have created a tool room with tools in it that will teach you how to do what I just explained and you just read in 30 seconds.

    To my former teammates who left with Tim, you have no idea how bad I feel for you and wish you would have bailed when I did. The fact that they gave you a Tool Room and a new system company should be all you need to know. This is not what you were supposed to have. Remember hearing Tim say, “the products will sell the business, so you don’t have to.”

    There is no way this business is legitimate if it requires a tool room to run it. If you stay now, you become one of them. You’ve been in too long not to know what you’re looking at.

    No offense, Mike Collins, but I no longer need to see your comp plan analysis. The tool room tells us the whole story, but I look forward to you putting it on YouTube for those prospects who are unable to read.

    Damn this has got me fired up. Tim Marks, you have got to be one of the biggest lying AHoles on the planet. Moral compass, my ass! Your people left Life, because they trusted you. This move just made you a bigger worm than Orrin.

  15. January 18, 2016 12:47 pm

    Tweets from ex-LIFE members and now-Bonvera distributors saying the departure from LIFE was great:

    Lie? Truth? Political correctness? Covering their butts? Time will tell.

    I have noticed that they have also started posting articles on Medium (an Reddit) to get the word out on Bonvera. While this is a better strategy than a series of posts across their sparsely visited blogs, I wonder about the long-term effects of their constant bombardment of their MLM business on these social networks.

  16. January 18, 2016 12:53 pm

    As a counterpoint, here’s a tweet from a still-in-LIFE member:

    Was this tweet directed at those who left?

  17. January 18, 2016 2:51 pm

    Mark, it’s not bitterness or immaturity, it’s called history. By blindly rejecting this history and dismissing it, you’re either a newbie or at the top of the pyramid. Either way, you are not qualified to speak.

    Enjoy your granola bars or regurgitated LIFE talks, whichever the case may be. We’ll keep waving the red flag to warn others.

  18. Mike collins permalink
    January 18, 2016 4:52 pm

    Mark Blocher, don’t waste your time on these bitter people. The only reason I read any of this is it popped up. More power to Tim and his new venture. Ignore the people as they could use a new hobby.

    [Editor’s note to Readers: This is the other Mike Collins, not the one who normally posts analyses of MLM comp plans.]

  19. January 18, 2016 5:54 pm

    Venkat Varada. has positive thoughts about his past with LIFE:

    Question: Will he stay on as a customer of LIFE products?

  20. January 18, 2016 6:00 pm

    Chris Brady posted this a five hours ago:

  21. Anonymous permalink
    January 18, 2016 6:31 pm

    A case of not burning bridges? Avoiding libel-type lawsuits? Or, it might be kind of hard to explain to a prospect/downline how one day you can say something is the best thing since sliced bread and the next day say it was all crap.

  22. Robert permalink
    January 19, 2016 5:41 am

    I have a friend posting almost identical messages. He is a former Lifer and now hes onto Bonvera. He has been doing Life since 2011. He has really been pushing this “new business” on several people I Know and many have come to me and ask for my thoughts. Being the older guy in the group I guess they might think I know something. I was approached by some classmates in college that were into Quixstar, and looked into it as it sounded so great to a broke college student. Then I realized it would not have went well and I wasn’t willing to subject friends and family. I value their friendship more than a quick buck.

  23. freedomhaha permalink
    January 19, 2016 6:52 am

    Mark- Where we differ is that I believe that spending a little bit of time to save people from going through what I went through is time well spent. No one deserved to be tricked the way that prospects of Orrin and now Tim will be.

  24. LA Confidential permalink
    January 19, 2016 7:26 am


    Amen to that


    😀 😀

  25. January 19, 2016 7:51 am

  26. January 19, 2016 7:59 am

    I don’t know about you, but this sounds a lot like other MLM companies, despite what the Bonvera distributor is writing in this article:

  27. noteam permalink
    January 19, 2016 9:34 am

    Where was all this “love” from Orrin & Chris when they were bashing Quixtar, Amway, Fred Harteis, Randy Haugen, Pastor Dickie, Bobbie Dickie, Don Wilson, and on and on and on????? Seems like they have a case of ‘selective Christianity”.

  28. Rascal Teamster permalink
    January 19, 2016 10:04 am


    This still sounds like Amway, and a shopping club mashed together.

    What really has me shaking my head is the absolute lack of business sense by these members who are posting #Bonverarocks.

    You guys really look silly. What you have is an energy drink, a bar, and a dream. The most important piece to get excited about is the only thing that’s really been holding you back since Amway…a good Compensation Plan.

    How soon people forget that Tim was instrumental in bringing you guys the plan you just ran from. Your product wasn’t the problem. The 27-1 break even point was the problem. This is laughable, because Amway was 24-1 and I remember Tim standing on stage and telling everyone how unfair Amway was. He was right, but Life was worse.

    I can’t wait to see the ratios when the Bonvera plan is released. But until then, you really have nothing to cheer about.


  29. Truly Free from Life permalink
    January 19, 2016 10:48 am

    Hey all,
    Now isn’t this a retro feeling? Really looks like my intro to Q way back in 2003. Outside of all their old are new again references (anyway money, Dell examples, etc) has anyone else noticed that Tim Marks is absent from all promo materials, pics on twitter, they sub-Reddit (yes, they have their own sub Reddit) and his own site and twitter account? I wonder what his deal exiting LIFE is since all the others seem to be free of any non-compete clauses. I have 2 theories. One is Tim’s exit from ownership has a pretty strong non-compete and the other is the official launch will be at the end of the non-compete the others have since if you are recruiting without making money then you are not a competitor.
    Looks like Tim realized that leadership materials don’t sell and you need a product to make cash. In the end, they are just adding new upholstery to an old couch and trying to sell it as new again.
    I agree with those above that if this was going to work $50/month in tools isn’t required. I worked at one time in a 100% commission traditional sales job and there were no materials and we were a multi-billion dollar company.
    To end my amused rant here, the drinks are even acai. Talk about full circle. I’ll be interested to see if they ever get to the “Walmart” products.
    Cheers all and hope you are smiling about all the irony here as much as I am.

  30. noteam permalink
    January 19, 2016 11:58 am

    Just a theory…..but what if this was an orchestrated event? What if Tim was actually leaving….but did actually have the support of Orrin & Chris as a result of a payoff.

    Picture this – with LIFE, the tools profits were shared amongst a much larger group of people. Very low percentages, but none the less, a lot more people were sharing in the pot than when the tool business was fully secretive. What if they realized they big 3 and handful of other top leaders were not making as much as they had been. So, Tim wanted to start the new company with the products as a diversion in order to remove tool money from the masses. Now with less than 5% of the people getting anything, there is much more money per leader. and with the product diversion, the average Joe doesn’t notice the tool money taken away.

    Orrin & Chris don’t like Tim leaving, but as businesspeople, make a deal with Tim. Could a deal have been struck with Tim that he would get their blessing to leave as long as Orrin & Chris get a huge chunk of the new tool profits from the new company?

    Just a thought. There must be some reason Orrin & Chris are not going after Tim as aggressively as they did everyone else they had a disagreement with over the past 15 years.

  31. Anonymous permalink
    January 19, 2016 12:29 pm

    I certainly agree there’s an underlying reason. Could this be a possibility — If Orrin shows he’s still friendly towards Tim, then Orrin wouldn’t be pressured (sued?) into buying back all that obsolete product stacked away in sheep’s garages.

    Also, could Tim still be a shareholder of Life? Maybe he hasn’t been bought out yet. If there isn’t a shareholder’s agreement, it can be a bit tricky for all parties to agree to the value of a non publicly traded company.

  32. Rascal Teamster permalink
    January 19, 2016 12:46 pm

    The tool partnership between Tim, Chris, and Orrin did cross my mind. My first guess was that Obstacles Press and Team was going to be the producer of Tim’s tools, but I don’t know.

    Tim’s absence is a little bit puzzling, but they may be trying to start this off with a clean slate and not bring any of Tim’s legal troubles into Bonvera. Tim is currently involved with a number of Life PC in a counter lawsuit by Raquel Peters. They may be keeping Tim’s name out of this for that reason.

    Not a good sign to launch a new company with a CEO who’s being sued because of a previous business venture. Kind of a red flag for a new prospect.

    Interesting decision….a company launch without telling you who the controlling officers or founding members are.

  33. Truly Free from Life permalink
    January 19, 2016 12:54 pm

    Great points to both of you. I’ve wondered if this is really a split or not based on the lack of public shaming of those leaving. Also, I’d assume Tim’s sale of shares may also include an inactive period, which he looks to have started in October or November.
    I don’t think Orrin and Co would go legally after Tim. If they sued a shareholder it would open themselves to sharing much more information in court than they want to. The SEC is always interested in that type of info.
    When they launch you’ll see Tim walk out on stage to his big ovation. The sheep will eat it up.

  34. Michael Howard - Not afraid to give my name permalink
    January 19, 2016 1:21 pm

    I didn’t come from any other MLM or any of that business. All I know is that using the Life Leadership products changed my life. I almost doubled my income from just changing my thinking. I made money in the time I was with them. I also helped multiple people remove some serious debt. I guess I don’t understand a point in dedicating a website against an MLM company, but I am sure you have your reasons. As for me, I will never have anything to say bad about Life. It was one of the best experiences of my life.

    In any event I left to go to Bonvera. I see a much greater opportunity and I was never associated with Tim Marks. I think I should be your case study. I am going to dedicate the next 3 years to succeeding at this business. If i succeed, it would be a plus for Bonvera, but if I fail, you can have a whole documentary.

  35. R ward permalink
    January 19, 2016 3:07 pm

    I was there when this concept was rolled out 8 years ago. Our vision was to make this happen with quieter not to leave them. They forced that not us. Monavie stepped in to help support the lawsuit that Amway forced on the leaders. This vision has been there all along and has been being worked on for years not behind anyone’s back. 2 of the 3 decided not to go this direction leaving Tim no option but to fulfill his promise of 8 years. Tim is a man of integrity and did this to be a man of his word. Amthrax you don’t sound like you know much about integrity because you sure don’t know anything about facts. Sounds more like sour grapes. Either way you are an idiot who can’t even post your real name. You are a coward Bonvera a promise fulfilled all the way to the top.

  36. Michael Howard - Not afraid to give my name permalink
    January 19, 2016 3:09 pm

    I respect the opinions here even though I take a different one. I really enjoyed being a part of Life Leadership. I did not get rich, but I did read more books and listen to more positive thinking than I ever had. It really has helped me. Here is a list of my benefits:

    1. Change in thinking = more opportunity – I am making more money
    2. The inspiration gave me the stones to finally go out on my own. I am now completely self-employed and believe I will triple my income this year (without MLM money)
    3. I actually made a little money. Not huge, but the experience sure built my confidence.
    4. Helped some people remove a lot of debt.
    5. I myself have saved more money than I have since 2008 using the FF program. Anyone applying the info in that system will profit and you cannot deny that.

    I judge Life Leadership by the fruit it bore in my life and it was profitable.

    I am leaving, but am still a customer. I think their products are worthwhile and I will still buy them. I am not afraid to put my name on that. My email is

    I go into Bonvera knowing there is a risk, but I love the idea. I think there is an opportunity for lots of people. I also think it will be a fun adventure. I am thinking about fully documenting my adventure as a guide to others. Who knows what will happen. I am determined I will win here and not afraid to lose. I will keep you posted.

    [Editor’s note: This comment was originally flagged as spam. It’s been removed from that queue and approved.]

  37. January 19, 2016 4:02 pm

    @Michael Howard – All I’ll say to you is track your income and expenses each month and the income/expenses of those people in your downline. See you in 3 years.

  38. Truly Free from Life permalink
    January 19, 2016 6:18 pm

    @amthrax that comment is amazing. @Michael Howard, many of us don’t use our names due to either family being involved still or fear of legal actions as some are already going through. Some of us were bigger pins than you’d like to believe. As for the info from LIFE being life changing, much of it you can find at your local bookstore for much less than all the “system” costs. Books on how to Lead people or get out of debt are easy to find and evaluate. Don’t need a subscription package and weekly meetings to tell me that.
    Again, here the trolls are throwing the comments off topic to dilute the discussion.

  39. Craig permalink
    January 19, 2016 7:12 pm

    @Michael Howard – Show me the $.

  40. January 19, 2016 7:21 pm

    R ward has drunken deep of the kool-aid…or the Phyzix?

    Is it an MLM thing to name your product a misspelled common word?

  41. switch permalink
    January 19, 2016 9:30 pm

    Great work Amthrax!!

    Here’s the sad part, marks decides to leave LIFE because he was obviously fed up with O’s bullshit but what does he do?…he decides to join another mlm cult/scam?

    I don’t feel sorry for these bozos what so ever.

  42. Michael Howard permalink
    January 19, 2016 10:09 pm

    Will do Craig, as I make it. I run a pretty successful business that is not MLM, so I know how to track my expenses and the tax benefits.

    I think I am getting a common theme from many of you. 1 you are all reformed MLM folks who made it big, but have guilt. I wonder if you treated your business as a recruiting only tool aka a pirymid scheme. I actually did a lot of retail sales. I sold LLR corporate subscriptions. I recruited people who did not have money to be in business, so I helped em get customers to make money. If you don’t focus on customers, you are just recruiting. Can you honestly say you retailed goods to non business owners in you down line?

  43. January 20, 2016 7:29 am

    @Michael Howard – this comment of yours on 1/19 was originally flagged as spam. I’ve moved it from that queue and approved it.

  44. noteam permalink
    January 20, 2016 7:30 am

    MIke Howard – Thank you so much for offering to use your real name and offering to verify information. I did a search for Mike Howard LIFE and was unable to find you as Mike Howard is such a common name. What city are you from and who is your upline?

  45. Michael Howard - Not afraid to give my name permalink
    January 20, 2016 11:53 am

    I left Life. I no longer am associated as I am now with Bonvera. Here is my linked in.

    I only offer my experience to say that not everyone and everything about this business is bad. I am proud I was associated with LIFE and my results above in my personal life far outweigh the small amount of money I made as a CAB qualified performer. Unlike some of the folks in this room, I was no big wig. I am not here to argue as that would be pointless. I believe there is a win/win for anyone who is willing to win. Others in the room admitted to acting in a predatory nature and possibly ending marriages. I can see why they feel the way they do. I would not like a business if I had acted that way when I was part of it.

    I guess some people could buy the same books at Amazon, but they don’t. I never was in the habit of reading like I am now. I read almost 4 books a month. The community and the culture is what led me to doing that. The positive thinking in the CDs has changed me.

  46. exTEAMster permalink
    January 20, 2016 11:55 am

    I also found some beneficial information in some of the LIFE materials and would have no problem recommending some of those tools to people. My problem with LIFE was the nonstop layout of money for subscriptions, meetings, seminars and FOUR (?!) major conventions per year that were pitched as being absolutely critical to attend even though the exact same speeches showed up in the subscription packages I was paying for a few months later. Leadership materials are a good thing but it’s a terrible model for an MLM because of a variety of factors. Ironically, it is different than yet another MLM offering energy bars and fruit juice and shopping discounts.

  47. Michael Howard - Not afraid to give my name permalink
    January 20, 2016 12:31 pm

    @exTeamster – So would there be an MLM model you would approve of?

  48. Chris I permalink
    January 20, 2016 1:10 pm

    I decided to google bonvera and found a blog post by chris mattis. It’s nothing new from the jargon I heard in Life, except instead of a “compensated community” its a (hold on to your hats boys and girls) “compensated marketplace” wooooah! Lol. Best part was the legion of zombies in the comment section drooling over how awesome bonvera is (before it even launches, must be time travelers) If you wanna know the pitch phrases they’ll be using, give it a read. My favorite is someone talking about, “how great it’ll be for folks that can’t carry 50lb dog food bags and 20lb cat litter bags because now the UPS guy or gal will bring it to your door for you.” It’s all just a lot a chuckle worthy malarkey.

  49. udonome permalink
    January 22, 2016 4:40 pm

    found this website on reddit.

    it reads, each associate will pay $8 annually to be a part of ICCA. however membership is optional and only for current members.

    i hope this is not the beginning of vagueness in who is and who is not an affiliate.

  50. January 24, 2016 8:11 am

    A dig at the LIFE push-up challenge?

    The winners in Kentucky:

  51. January 24, 2016 8:12 am

    Wasn’t hope something in abundance in LIFE?

  52. January 24, 2016 8:21 am

    How has the departure of now-Bonvera members affected LIFE’s goal to hit a million people?

  53. January 24, 2016 12:20 pm

    We’ve yet to ask the biggest question: will there be a Bonvera Island? And if so, how far is it from LIFE Island?

    On to a million (pounds of dog crap)!

  54. Craig permalink
    January 24, 2016 12:27 pm

    @PJ – Dream big or go home…

  55. Melanie Morgan permalink
    January 24, 2016 1:36 pm


    Pretty sure those now in Bonvera lost all ‘hope’ in LIEf despite the efforts of the lip service from those in LIEf that are self-deceived and believe they deliver hope.


    Never fails, every time I get to your comments….I bust a gut. 🙂

  56. Melanie Morgan permalink
    January 24, 2016 1:49 pm

    Wonder how many risked their lives and possibly their children’s, traveling from out east to attend another pep rally, that put them not only in danger but costs them more debt?

    Also, when is someone from LIEf going to start bragging about their “record numbers”…onto a million lol, at this major? Funny how that “scoreboard” must be broken.

  57. Doug permalink
    January 26, 2016 7:05 am

    Why not just go back to AMWAY and sell XS……

  58. Melanie Morgan permalink
    January 27, 2016 7:50 am


    You are not being serious, right?

  59. January 29, 2016 8:41 pm

    A post from a Bonvera member about the structure of the compensation plan, as described during one of Bonvera’s recent events:

  60. January 30, 2016 7:33 am

    So…not being an mlm ‘bot’, where does this plan fall under the 70% retail law. Or isn’t this truly mlm? Curious as to what ya’ll think?

  61. January 30, 2016 2:58 pm

    Rest assured that if they’re going out of their way to convince you that it’s not the same old game, it’s the same old game.

    They trotted out similar language with the LIFE rollout, especially about how much money was going to the field, how it had never been done before, and the transparency of the entire operation. We all know how that turned out.

    I’m sure it was the same with Monavie and the rest all the way back to Amway. Proceed at your own risk and we’ll see you back here in a few months.

  62. Darkstorm Soldier permalink
    February 1, 2016 4:09 pm

    Yes, its just like Amway, except better, they always say. They qoute alot of things from Amway conferences and learning materials. Why do I know this, I have quite a memory for repeated passages and phrases. I have also read many books used in the direct sales business. Amway has always been consistent and delivers quality products and services. I speak from experience of twenty years buying and doing business with them.

  63. LetFreedomRing permalink
    February 2, 2016 7:41 am

    Life Leadership is an amazing business. The problem is that most people do not think they need to improve themselves or their lives. They are happy with a mediocre life. Very few people want an excellent life. Very few people think about anyone but themselves. Very few people want to make a difference in America. Very few people even read! Therefore, it is hard to build with Life. “Once you stop learning, you start dying.” Albert Einstein. Since I don’t like to be left behind, I’m signing up with Bonvera.

  64. freedomhaha permalink
    February 2, 2016 10:35 am

    LetFreedomRing- I think the difference is that we don’t see eye to eye on what “improving their life” really is. It is my opinion that getting over 99% of people to lose money while also losing money and time yourself isn’t a great improvement. However, you have the option to think differently.

  65. exTEAMster permalink
    February 2, 2016 6:33 pm

    Clearly there is a market in the country for personal development. But signing up for a ‘jelly of the month’ program is not what most people are looking for. And even if they like the first couple of offerings, before you know it they’re getting more books than they’ll ever commit to reading so they’re not going to stay on as customers. LIFE is not a business that can procure long-term customers. It can only grow by finding a high percentage of business builders and more than half drop out after a year, especially when they start to add up the cost of tools, subscriptions meetings, seminars AND the time required to prospect, recruit, mentor, etc.

  66. exTEAMster permalink
    February 3, 2016 4:14 am

    The other thing LIFE has done that guarantees it will never have mass appeal — it quickly becomes apparent to anyone who looks into the business as to its political and religious leanings, among leaders and followers. Nothing wrong with being very Conservative and/or very Christian. But don’t sell LIFE as a business with unlimited potential when it truly only has the potential to appeal to a very specific demographic of people who, in turn, must be able to recruit others from that same demographic.

  67. SBowman permalink
    February 4, 2016 12:17 pm

    I’m amazed at the closed mindedness of some people. First of all, why do you all care if LIFE memebers move on to a new adventure?
    I was in LIFE for 2 years. And though I never really worked the company, I thoroughly enjoyed being around people who were excited, optamistic and encouraging! Something you all are NOT! Maybe you should consider joining something like this and surrounding yourselves with a different type of people! OR, maybe you are all so comfortable in your negative, pitiful little lives that change scares you!
    Bonvera is a company that will change the e-commerce world. I see lots of people posting about how easily they shopped on Amazon Prime, but my question to you is, ‘Did you get paid for shopping?’ Somebody did, but I’m guessing it wasnt you!
    With Bonvera, the plan is to shop for ‘anyway items’ with ‘anyway money’ and get paid for it.
    Whether you like it, support it, or think its a scam, it doesnt matter. This company is going someplace and I’m glad to say that I will be on the starting line!

  68. Monty Ward permalink
    February 5, 2016 12:01 am

    Amthrax seems to need pain. We sense a great remorse, a deep personal disappointment of the self that reluctantly quit on a system most apt to fulfill her deepest need.

  69. exTEAMster permalink
    February 5, 2016 4:50 am

    “Bonvera is going to change the e-commerce world!”

    SBowman…please. Do you truly believe the concept behind Bonvera hasn’t been tried before? This has to be at least the 4th MLM company I’ve heard of doing this, which means there are or have been many others. If you were handed a list of people who really and truly are going to shape the future of e-commerce, how many names do you think you would see before you got to Tim Marks, Denny Mattis or Jim Martin? And if the fellowship of LIFE is so special, why not invite everyone you know in that organization to your house for a get together. Let’s see how many show up if they know you’re no longer part of the March to a Million.

  70. February 5, 2016 5:06 am


    Orrin, Chris and Tim were touting the “anyway money for anyway items” when I started in the business (which was then Team of Destiny) back in 2002. It made perfect sense, which is why I joined. I was spending money on things I was going to buy anyway and getting paid back to do it. However, just as I was getting successful and making money, the leaders decided to change the game, and they will do the same to you so don’t get too comfortable.

    If spending “anyway money” on “anyway items” was the way to go, why did Orrin, Chris and Tim decided it was best to leave Quixtar? They roped me in with a great business model and then decided it wasn’t a great business model after all? In case you don’t know, one of the big reasons the leaders decided we should split from Quixtar is because Quixtar was taking more control over the tools side of the business. Orrin, Chris and Tim stood to lose a LOT of money and they couldn’t have that. It had nothing to do with the business model since Tim is perpetuating that with Bonvera.

    The other thing that bothers me is that I don’t normally buy energy drinks and protein bars so these are not “anyway items” for me. I understand that the company line they’re feeding you is that they’ll keep adding items. Until that time, they’ll be perfectly happy to collect monthly fees from you for the Extroda system. Trust me, they’re in no hurry to add more products, but they want you on system as long as possible. There’s a huge margin on that.

  71. freedomhaha permalink
    February 5, 2016 5:58 am

    SBowman- People here are using their free time to save, and free, people from a scam that costs people extreme amounts of money. Unfortunately, money can be replaced, but the time and relationships are harder to get back.

    I don’t know where I would be without the people on Amrthrax posting truths 5 years ago.

  72. Anonymous permalink
    February 5, 2016 10:01 am

    Aren’t these basically the same people responsible for Walmart of the Internet, Team of Destiny a few years ago? We all know how that turned out.

  73. February 5, 2016 10:09 am

    Was on the edge of my seat watching ‘Madoff’ the last couple of nights. Curious as to how his whole world came crashing down, and all the human carnage that came along with ‘greed left unchecked’. How everyone in his sphere of influence played a role in this story, and how none were left untouched by what he did. His wife and both his boys ( beneficiaries, but clueless about the dark side of what went on behind the closed doors of his ‘business’. ) The office employees who ‘knew’ and were not guiltless…part of the cover-up team in the crime (they ended up in prison). His secretary who was entrusted with his appointments, and who also trusted him with her own monetary investment. (She gave information to the producers of the movie to help with the story). Bernies little brother who also played a sinister role, but was plagued with guilt throughout the movie. And all the ‘investors’ who trusted him with their fortunes only to find out all was lost. And then there was the whistle-blower who frantically tried to alert the authorities about his suspicions. And the ‘authorities’, the SEC who only had to make one phone call to find out if Bernie was ‘legit’, but didn’t follow through with it. It should have stopped there! They didn’t do their JOB!
    When I read your posts, those of you who are headed down the MLM trail to the fantasy land of financial freedom (as you like to term it), you had better think long and hard about those in your own sphere of influence that love you and trust you. Look long and hard at them, because you will be taking them with you. And they all will play a role. This ‘business’ where less than 1% actually make any money, in my book and in Gods book is not a ‘business’ at all, but a scam. God has called us to pay those we hire what they are worth. Because in Gods sight, they have earned it and deserve it. It is the high calling of God in Jesus Christ.
    Bernie’s wife now is alone and a recluse. Their grandchildren are growing up without their grandparents, and their Daddy because he could not live out the rest of his life in shame because of what his father had done. Bernie’s daughter-in-law has to raise his two beautiful grandchildren by herself.
    And the fall-out from this story is still being played out in many lives. The saga of sadness goes on. While Bernie and his cohorts look out from behind prison bars, a daily reminder of their life choices that led them to this sad ending.
    If you have not seen this movie…all you ‘Lifers’ and ‘Bonvera’ people, maybe you need to grab a bag of popcorn and take some time to sit and watch it. And then go and grab your sweet family and hug them and pray that God delivers you from ever jeopardizing anything that would take you and all those you influence down the road of deceit. Because you will pay a high price. We serve a just and holy God whom we all will stand before one day. What role will you play in this story? I pray for the grace to stand for what is right, because I, too, will give an answer.

  74. February 5, 2016 10:14 am

    ^ This.

  75. February 7, 2016 3:46 am

    Bonvera followers, your leaders are liars and you perpetuate the lies. For example, Jim and Delores Martin’s bio will now go something like this. Jim was working as a plumber when he was shown this amazing opportunity with Bonvera. He listened to xxx number of CD’s from Extroda blah blah blah…

    Their stories change with whatever scam they are in today, be it Bonvera, Life, Monavie, Quixtar, or Amway.

  76. February 7, 2016 3:58 am

    @ jemily52 The problem is that when they are in this business/cult they honestly believe they are trying to help their friends and family members get “free”. We did too until it was too late and we alienated them all. That bothers me more than the money we lost, the broken relationships.

  77. Truly Free from Life permalink
    February 7, 2016 4:49 am

    @das that is a huge point. The time I lost with my good friends haunts me, it created a lot of distance there (some of them I have successful reconnected with luckily). The kicker was all the “friends” I had in the business that never spoke to me again when I left. Some of whom had stood for us at major family events.

  78. Kenneth permalink
    February 7, 2016 6:20 am

    I agree with Michael Howard. I was confronted to join Life Leadership back in November. I was in for three weeks when the people who asked me to join told me they are leaving Life and following the leaders on a new adventure. At the time no one knew what the business was going to be called but we knew where it is headed. So, since I was still within my one month test period I left Life and received a full refund. The first three weeks I was in Life drastically changed my life and my way of thinking. It opened so many doors that I had no idea were there. I am now actively educating myself everyday to make better life decisions in faith, family, career, and politics.

    Now I am in Bonvera and I know this is going to be something big. We are going to compete against Amazon where there is one person at the top collecting all the profit, like in most businesses. With us there is an already established community (aka already present customers) who are the owner of this online business so all profit falls back into the community. So, YES we get paid to shop and share. You have to treat this like a business and like any business you have to put your work into the company (community for us) to share in the profits. The work here is pretty simple. If you have lost friends for sharing this idea to them then either your doing something wrong or they are not a true friend. Everyone I have shared this with have seen the changes in me and think this is a great opportunity even the ones who didn’t join in on the opportunity. The ones who didn’t join I still have a good relationship with today. I hope this comment is useful and thanks for letting me share my story. God Bless!

  79. exTEAMster permalink
    February 7, 2016 11:48 am

    I can’t stop laughing every time one of these Bonvera supporters claims this company is going to compete with Amazon. You truly have no idea of how big Amazon is in terms of its operations, warehouses, staffing, etc. And no, the profits do not go to one guy at the top. It’s a publicly traded company, so profits go back to shareholders. 10 years from now, Bonvera (if it even exists) will be nothing but a speck of lint in the belly button of Amazon. The leaders of Bonvera have ZERO experience developing an e-commerce business, let alone running one. They know how to give slick-sounding sales/recruiting presentations and fire up people at conventions. That is not the foundation of a business ready to revolutionize an industry they have virtually no knowledge of.

  80. keep-it-real permalink
    February 7, 2016 1:20 pm

    To the future Bonvera followers:

    * How do you reconcile all the Chris & Orrin edification that was given on the LIFE stages by the now leaders of Bonvera? All of a sudden Chris & Orrin are not great leaders anymore? Their system isn’t the best anymore? They all of a sudden know more? If so, why did they say those things then and why would you believe what they are saying to you on stage now?

    * To say that you are going to compete with Amazon is a laughable joke. As ‘exTEAMster’ already pointed out, Amazon is huge. It would be like me cooking burgers in my backyard and stating I was competing with McDonalds. I bet Amazon started out with more than 2 products to sell, not everyone is into energy drinks and food bars…. Wake up, we are well past the year 2000, the e-commerce revolution has already long sailed….

    * Typically, MLMs have to sell overpriced items so everyone upline can take their “cut” out of the profit margin. Thats the reason selling $120 dollar juice bottles worked for awhile. There is not much margin in everyday items such as cleaning products, paper products, etc especially when it has to be shipped directly to the customer and not shipped in truckload quantities to stores.

    * Keep track of your true business expenses while in an MLM. Mileage, cost of tickets, meals, babysitters, etc, etc. For some reason many MLM’ers fail to do this and they don’t realize they are losing money big time year after year. For some reason, the MLM “training” materials you get don’t ever seem to go over profit & loss much. Why would that be?

    * Would you ever get in a business if you knew up front that 95%+ of those getting in will not make a dime from it? Even if you think that you yourself could be one of the 5%, do you feel comfortable recruiting family & friends in your business knowing the odds of them being successful?

    * Don’t believe what those tell you as far as what someone is making in the business. Many of the “levels” in the business represent someone hitting that particular level one time (usually because they made a huge bulk purchase) and doesn’t represent what they would be making over a years time. Unless you see a end of year pay statement, don’t believe it.

    I was in Team for 3 years before finally waking up. Hopefully, someone will read this and not waste their time and others. There is no doubt some of the leadership lessons and material is worth hearing; however, you can get the same material much cheaper without spending a fortune and alienating friends and family. Buy a Success magazine subscription for $35 a year or get similar material for free at the library.

  81. freedomhaha permalink
    February 8, 2016 5:01 am

    Ex- “It’s a publicly traded company, so profits go back to shareholders. 10 years from now, Bonvera (if it even exists) will be nothing but a speck of lint in the belly button of Amazon. The leaders of Bonvera have ZERO experience developing an e-commerce business, let alone running one.”

    These are just details my friend. Also, not to mention the hundreds of thousands of businesses, authors, and personal companies that benefit from selling their products on Amazon.

    Kenneth- I would encourage you to keep pursuing the same information and education for free away from any MLM. This serves two great purposes. The first is that the information comes a great deal cheaper if not free. Secondly, you can use that information in a meaningful way instead of just using it to get people into a scam.

  82. The Real Thing permalink
    February 8, 2016 11:11 am

    It is quite funny reading all the comments from all the misinformed people of the peanut gallery thinking they know what Bonvera is and what we are going to offer as products.
    Bonvera will have thousands of products to choose from on day 1, not just energy drinks and bars. And don’t forget Amazon was small 21 years ago!!!

  83. Anonymous permalink
    February 8, 2016 4:48 pm

    Hmmm, doesn’t Amway have thousands of products to go along with energy drinks and bars? Just sayin’ …

  84. LetFreedomRing permalink
    February 9, 2016 6:32 am

    Wow. Anyone who is bashing any MLM, whether it be Amway, Avon, Maleluca, Life or whatever it is, has low self confidence. If you have lost friendships because of promoting a MLM, then those people were not really your friends or you were a jerk about it. I mean, come on folks. The statistics show there are thousands of people who have succeeded in MLM’s. But like I said before, most people won’t do the work. I’ve been involved with Life since they started. I have lost no friends, only gained. I don’t bash any MLM when I learn prospects are with other companies. If people could just be happy and encouraging to other peoples endeavors, just think what a difference it would make. All of you negative people need the Life materials, believe me. Look in the mirror, people. That is your problem.

  85. keep-it-real permalink
    February 9, 2016 7:12 am

    Freedom – What PERCENTAGE of those who get in MLM have any success at all? We all know how low the numbers are, why don’t you discuss THAT when you show your plans? It is interesting how the income disclosure statements come out on time when business is good but tend to somehow get delayed when people are leaving…. How many of you who are on the “2 to 5 year plan” are now on year 10-15 (or more)?? How many have lost thousands (and more) during this time. Also, be sure to mention that they “own their own business”. Unless of course their downline leaves, or the MLM goes out of business, the govt shuts them down, etc, etc. Then again, maybe not….. If what you were doing effected just you yourself, then to each their own – go ahead and do your thing. This blog however is to help those who are not in “the business” to make an educated decision before losing thousands and wasting time.

  86. February 10, 2016 12:54 pm

    One of the thoughts that has stuck in my heart since Sunday is…”Judas desired a prominent place in an earthly kingdom, so he sold his soul for a few pieces of silver”. Please friends, any earthly kingdom that would require of you to compromise is not worth it if it means your soul. Jesus hated compromise, which the Nicolaitans in the Book of Revelation were guilty of. It robbed them (and us) from having any power or impact for the true kingdom of God. When you go out promoting this company or any mlm where almost no one with the exception of those at the very top would be making any kind of a profit, you are promoting lies and deceiving people, and in essence you are being used to rob them. Like everyone who has lived this tragedy knows, please listen to them. Don’t you desire to live with integrity, not only for your family, but for God? Ask Judas if it was worth it…….

  87. Pat permalink
    February 10, 2016 1:36 pm

    People of Integrity expect to be believed, and when they are not, they let time prove them right…

  88. February 11, 2016 4:35 am

    Sometimes yes, sometimes no. We are called as believers to earnestly contend for the faith. Scriptural warnings were inherent all through the NTestament. Look at the fall-out in the Bernie Madoff scandal. Everyone played a role. We are commissioned to ‘save some’, if it is in our power to do so.

  89. LetFreedomRing permalink
    February 11, 2016 5:21 am

    A perfect example of a pyramid scam is a corporation, where I’m assuming all of you negative people work. Top of pyramid: CEO. Second layer, CFO etc. Third layer Managers. Fourth layer Assistant Managers Floor Managers etc. Fifth layer employees. Now if you work harder than the CFO or your manager, which most employees do, will they give you the pay of management? Heck no! Therefore it is a pyramid scam. Another question. If you eat at a restaurant and the food is bad, does that mean you don’t eat at any other restaurant? With your mindset that would have to be true. And another question. Over 50% of marriages end in divorce. Ohoh. You better not get married! Your mind is like a parachute……… only works if it is open. Just because there were a few bad MLM companies doesn’t mean there will never be a good one. You may think you are saving someone from a bad deal, but you really are not.

  90. keep-it-real permalink
    February 11, 2016 7:11 am

    If I knew that 95% of all people who ate at a particular restaurant got food poisoning, I would not eat there. If I knew that there was a 95% chance that the person I was marrying would not work out, I would not get married. If your “contacts” truly knew that 95% of them would not make make any money (again, using true profit/loss calculations that every other business other than MLM seems to use), then they probably would not get in and would have second thoughts about showing their “opportunity” to their friends/family.

    One problem is that every MLM thinks that their business is “different” and that the poor success rate statistics only apply to everyone other than their particular business. They have the perfect product and the perfect “system”.

    I know MLMs love bashing corporations. I’m guessing that one of the attractions for people working at corporations is that 100% of those working their actually MAKE money as to less than 5% in MLMs. If you work hard and do a good job, you typically get recognized and get promoted and thus more opportunity. I myself am self-employed and I think owning your own business is more rewarding & satisfying than corporate employment; however, as previously stated, I don’t believe being a member in an MLM is owning your own business for lots of reasons.

    MLM’s love to prey on the disgruntled corporate worker. These people get in and then are given another 2nd shift job by “running the roads” and making their already tough corporate day job even harder. Whatever family life they had is even worse by being gone at night. It all would be great if after awhile you could break free from the cycle but you then you run into that pesky less than 5% success rate again………

  91. Anonymous permalink
    February 11, 2016 7:22 am

    Freedomring – If you are into Life to make a financial living from Life, have you really looked at Life’s Income Disclosure Statement? KeepItReal is being generous with his 5%.
    There is an IDS analysis on thiis site, plus here is a short video of someone reading it:

  92. February 11, 2016 7:31 am


    You shouldn’t bash corporations. They pay for your overpriced products. If it wasn’t for them, Bonvera would fold.

    Don’t bite the hand that feeds you.

  93. Anonymous permalink
    February 11, 2016 7:41 am

    Life Leadership Income Disclosure Statement Review 2012-2013:

  94. LetFreedomRing permalink
    February 11, 2016 11:33 am

    I can tell none of you have every worked a MLM company. You really don’t know what you are talking about. 95% of the people in the MLM DON”T do the work! Actually, I was one of them! But 100% of the people who DO do the work, succeed. It’s as simple as that. If the IDS showed the success of only the people doing the work, results would be much different. I was counted in that percent, but I wasn’t working. (And I made much more than the stated amount.) I’m not bashing corporations. I’m just pointing out that no matter how hard you work at your job, you cannot make more money than the salary allowed for that position. Ask yourself, if I could choose my own salary, would I pay myself more? Of course you would. So with MLM, you are your own boss and can work to make what you please. Our country was founded on entrepreneurship. I appreciate business owners because they are the hardest working people. Not everyone is passionate enough about freedom to work hard. Most people like the simple life. I don’t appreciate people like you who want people to get by, just not by you. Perhaps you should get rid of your TV and start learning again. Start with the books written by Robert Kiyosaki. TRUTH: after it ticks you off, it sets you free. Best of luck.

  95. The Truth Hurts permalink
    February 11, 2016 11:33 am

    OK. That does it. I seriously cannot take the drivel being promoted by some of these MLMs. Let’s start with the most abused thing I frequently hear “A Corporation is a Pyramid”.

    When you go to work at a Corporation, YOU WILL GET A PAYCHECK, earning compensation from DAY ONE. No one at a Corporation will tell you to “just work harder, big money is right around the corner”, your business/job is about “to explode” with growth. No one at the Corporation will ask you to work for possibly YEARS to get a dime of compensation.

    Lets discuss two things I hear being sadly confused, or, worse, I am hearing CD/Tape of the week drivel coming from various posters.

    First Item

    Compensation. A Job. If you are truly “just over broke”, and currently have a good job with a paycheck, you may need to practice money management, sit down a make a budget. If you are over spending, take baby steps to correct this, as breaking bad habits all at once is very hard to do. When you accomplish a goal, acknowledge it, celebrate with your Family!

    If you do work for a Corporation, you probably make the same amount every payday, and you may have Employer provided Health Insurance, and a nice 401K to stash some of your paycheck in. Does your Company/Corporation do 401K matching? If so, take advantage of this if at all possible. If you put in an honest effort, you will see rewards at work; wonderful Employees do get noticed.

    By the way, do you get a Christmas Bonus at work? If you can put half of this in savings, and do this every year, you will have a nice emergency stash built up.

    Item Two

    MLM canned speeches usually always mention a job is “just over broke”, or “Corporations are Pyramids”. Lets think this through, with reality fully engaged.

    In our lives, we will always have a figure of authority over us. If it is an MLM, you’d better suck up to your Upline, because if you get on the wrong side of them, you could lose substantial income. Who would you complain to? This is a HUGE question you need to know the answer to; What are the remedies available if you feel you have been cheated out of money/not fairly compensated in an MLM?

    The Government will always have authority over you; most of us do have to pay taxes. Try not paying them and see how that works out.

    If you have a JOB, then you have an Employer who you must be accountable to in order to receive a paycheck.

    The Bank, Property Taxes, etc. There will always be a form of authority you are answerable to in your life time.

    The thing I find quite hideous, and downright deceitful, is who is mentioning the cost of participating in an MLM? Here is a simple think through of the Issue;

    Let’s say you join an MLM, we’ll call it Team Deception for our example, and Job for the Employer.

    You are working for Job, have been for a few years. You receive a paycheck every payday, the Managers like you, because you are personable and do a fine job. You have health insurance, get a Christmas Bonus, and have a company sponsored 401K.

    Now someone invites you to a meeting, but they’re rather “hush hush” about it. You like your friend, so you attend. Suddenly you hear your Employer being talked about in not so good terms, you are now being told that you have a J.O.B., which makes you just over broke. Then the Love Bombing starts; everyone at the meeting is so kind, and it makes you feel great! You start thinking, “maybe I can do this on the side for a few extra dollars! My Wife would love these People!” You sign up with Team Deception.

    There is no paycheck for all the hours you are going to put in; in fact, Team Deception wants you to buy things for your new venture immediately. You are told you have to be “teachable”, so you go along, and buy what your Sponsor recommends.

    Here is the curious thing..calculate what you would have made at your Job, versus what you have made during the same time period with Team Deception. Remember, Job pays you for every minute, has health insurance, and a 401K. By the way, how are you doing at your Job, after attending a lot of Pep Rallys and running the roads to bring more people into Team Deception? Is your Employer noticing you are a little slower, maybe tired, and you don’t have the great attitude you had before? Have you been trying to recruit people at work? If you have, your Employer knows it; you will be scrutinized to see how your Job performance is affected. Can you afford to lose your Job?

    Now calculate things over a two year period. Why two years? Well a business should be seeing a profit in two years; aren’t you in Team Deception, a business? Calculate all the costs associated with your “business”, and by the way, exactly what is your business again? Convincing People to do what? How much money have you spent? How much PROFIT are you making? How much time have you taken from Family to attend Seminars and Meetings? Aren’t you tired by now, listening to the same old drivel time after time? Do you secretly ask yourself what good this meeting is doing you? Do you know you are losing money, but don’t want your Team to know? What are your chances of making a good income, and having Job security with Team Deception? Do you have a contract with your MLM to spell out exactly how you will be compensated?

    I can write the above with real experience. I was a perfectly happy Small Business Owner when a friend asked me several times to come to a meeting. I did join, and began my journey of late nights, meeting after meeting, bleeding money, and finally realizing the Wolves at the top had very sharp nails. In poking around online, I found a man on the Internet that was quite a Lone Voice; he was trying to tell it like it is, and warn people. I asked my Upline Diamond about it, and he disparaged this man terribly. Thankfully, I looked beyond that bit of nastiness, and eventually, this man became my friend. He asked me the most important question, one that no one can hide from; what does your Tax Return look like?

    I also realized I had quite a bit of repair work to make my formerly profitable Small Business well again. I had severly neglected it during my time in Team Deception, and It took years to get back to where I had been when I joined.

    I find it very hard to read a few posts above this one; the poster is literally repeating drivel, MLM sound bite after sound bite. I get it, I was there once too, but I had some very good people to help me see what had happened. I will never forget piling up all the Cds and Tapes, deciding to never listen to them again; It was the start of my journey back to a normal life. Not looking at someone like they were meat, to be signed up in one of my legs for Team Deception.

    Oh yes, as for People talking about morals and compasses stuff. One day, many months after I had quit my MLM Team Deception, one of the “Big Leaders” (how that makes me laugh now!) came to my home and threatened me; he mistakenly thought I had written something on the Internet, which I hadn’t, but this “Leader” threatened to ruin my life, my business, etc. Actually, those heinous actions on the part of this so called “Leader” made me think about getting on the Internet to try to help others, and here I am! As for the Leader? How does one demonstrate leadership by threatening others? And the most important question should be why would one persons Team Deception business be threatened over telling the truth? How shaky is the business model, really, if one person standing up could make a difference in a “Big Leaders” business?

  96. C. Crittenden permalink
    February 11, 2016 1:14 pm

    Although I am not a member of Life nor have I ever been, my spouse drank the purple kool aid and signed up. She was going to buy her way to “power performer” status, so after seeing automatic withdrawals from our joint bank account in the amount of over several hundred dollars a month, I started to research this entity known as LIFE. “Living Intentionally For Excellence” is a Florida Limited Liability Corporation. This whole pyramid scheme is one huge “Financial Matrix” incorporated by Woodward, Brady, Guzzardo and some guy in Canada. Thank you Amthrax for publishing this information. My spouse was only in for less than a year before sobering up, drying out, going to real life re-hab and saving money the only real way to do it….work your job, spend less than you earn and don’t give your hard earned cash to the mother of all financial matrixes. Put it in the bank, even at today’s interest rates you will earn more than at Life.

  97. Anonymous permalink
    February 12, 2016 12:28 pm

    It seems like the real 2 – 5 year plan is to change names of the existing MLM ( Team – Team of Destiny – Life – Life Leadership ) or to start a new MLM (Bonvera / Extroda). So every five years it allows them to reset the clock on the 2 -5 year plan.

  98. Anonymous permalink
    February 13, 2016 1:13 pm

    Wasn’t it supposed to launch today?

  99. LA Confidential permalink
    February 13, 2016 1:30 pm

    There’s a meeting in Columbus today/tonight
    My sources first said 2/13 and now I’m hearing 2/16.
    Either way, the biz “beyond our wildest dreams and limited understanding” is almost heeeeeeeere!!!!!!

  100. Anonymous permalink
    February 13, 2016 1:46 pm

    If they would spend as much time working as they do posting/tweeting/retweeting each other’s motivational quotes, they’d all be millionaires by now.

  101. Bryant permalink
    February 14, 2016 5:52 pm

    Many of my clients are in different MLM’s. Some doing good, some doing great and some not doing anything so …. Not good at all.
    I get the whole “employer gives you a paycheck every payday” but to bash the industry for putting work in and not getting a paycheck is kind of ignorant for a couple reasons…

    Do you have any idea how much a realtor (something I’m very familiar with 🙂 has to invest (spend) before they make money? Guess how big our “paycheck” is if we drive 600 miles, show 30 houses and sell none for the first few months?

    Guess how big our paycheck is if we keep learning, putting in the hours etc? 🙂

    This same process is similar to mortgage brokers, insurance, commission car sales etc… Musicians, Hollywood actors etc..

    Just some food for thought… Unless of course your not hungry enough to eat… Lol

  102. The Truth Hurts permalink
    February 15, 2016 9:24 am

    Quite interesting comment about bashing the MLM Industry. Statistics speak for themselves as far as MLM Industry is concerned. Can all these people who fail to make money be LOSERS?

    Over the years, I too have had many MLM friends, and the carnage and wreckage I have watched from the sidelines has been terrible. I have always tried to help them by using good common sense; if you are busy “chasing your dreams” but you cannot pay your phone bill, something has to give. But now for the isidious part of the MLM World; I have seen, many times, Upline counsel their busted broke downline to “double down”, and “if the dream is big enough, the facts don’t matter”! How manipulative and low does one go to keep raking in the money train? WooHoo, All aboard for the magical smoke and mirrors wallet lightening mystery train! THE FACTS ALWAYS MATTER.

    Several Videos have been posted Online about how your JOB is more of a Pyramid than an MLM. In my opinion, this is hyperbole and manipulation at its finest, sadly.

    In an MLM, you can cease to be paid for several reasons, and really, do you own your own business? We were told at meetings that we could build a “willable business, that you can walk away from, because you are not carrying buckets, but have turned on the faucet, water continues to flow”, but reality is far different than what was portrayed from stage. Basically, a “find and replace” scenario kicks in, due to a tremendous attrition rate, which stems from downline not making money. Just to maintain your “spot” you have to replace at least 50% of your Downline regularly. Actually, 50% replacement is quite conservative.

    I have very good friends that sell Real Estate; yes they put in work, and yes they work hard, but not once have they told me they were not paid their commission for selling a home. Not once have I heard their commission was taken by another group in the office they work out of, that their Client was arbitraily taken from them and given to someone else, NOT ONCE. And, they didn’t have to grind it out for up to five years to make a penny; they had a contract/agreement with their Broker before they made their first sale. They made sales the very first year; if you cannot make a sale, you may need to find another profession. They had to be licensed to even sell Real Estate, they had to pass an Exam, which is a good indicator of interest and knowledge in the profession.

    My Car Saleman I do business with is on a salary weekly; then when he sells a vehicle, he gets a commission from the sale too. Because he does sell, and takes great care of his Clients, he is able to feed his Family quite well. I send a lot of people to him, and they all tell me that he made buying a vehicle a great experience, and took wonderful care of them. He didn’t sell them a DREAM, he sold them an actual vehicle.

    Why would someone stay in Real Estate, Insurance, Car Sales, if they didn’t make money, and couldn’t pay their rent and utilities? Would they stay in these professions for 5 years and have no money to show for their efforts? I think NOT. Would anyone in Real Estate or Insurance have jumped into business knowing the statistics show the average person makes roughly $40.00 per month? NO.

    To compare a Corporation, or a Self Employed Entrepenuer, to a recruiting based MLM income stream is laughable, and frankly an insult to Employers and Entrepenuers themselves. Yes, I expect to hear drivel about how MLM people are self employed too…but what is your real JOB? How did you support your “Biz” for the first years you are involved; I’d bet with your JOB.

    Over many years, we’ve all heard about Shopping clubs, Juice drinks, and the like. Many of these MLMs exist by recruiting others, and specifically, the one I was in preached duplication. Duplication was correct, your Upline loses money and so do you! Remember, your business is going to explode, so double down…..then watch your business implode unless you are ready to keep stacking up sign ups due to attrition rates.

    I still have to ask, what is your Job if you are in an MLM? You do what? Lead people to Freedom I have heard; but how were these same people doing before they started paying for tools, meetings, and more meetings? How much money did they make during their association with “Leaders” who seem to stop associating once they had no more money to buy tools or go to meetings? How long are your MLM member Leaders in contact with you once you quit due to being broke?

    I wonder, what does it cost a person to look into another human beings eyes and know that they may well not make a dime, may end up losing a significant amount of money, but still feed them the schtick anyway, because you need to keep your numbers up to get paid.

    The above is based upon my experience; one that I wished I had never had. But things happen for a purpose; here I am, lending a listening ear, understanding what people have been through. To others who spout what they have heard at the latest meeting, I really do get it; I was once just like you, filled with hope, thinking I was on to something that was wonderful. I know that the day may come when you come to this site after feeling deeply betrayed; I tell you now that I will welcome you, and try to help you heal. In the mean time, I wish you well.

  103. ItsaPauling permalink
    February 15, 2016 5:57 pm

    @ The Truth Hurts
    I want to personally thank you for your passion and posture! You are right on target and helping many by speaking out. The “drivil” being regurgitated was firmly implanted in my brain for years as well. We see and understand things from both sides now. It took me a very long time to detox from the tainted Kool aid and the fake, conditional relationships of up line “leaders/mentors” playing the roles of having our best interests at heart. Nothing is done without “specific intent” for THEIR own best interest. Been there. Seen it happen to dear friends…strong legs pulled right out from under them behind their backs. Stealth. Sneaky. I pray for those just starting the journey of
    Deception and those that have been on the path a while, jumped ship and think Bonvera is the new sliced bread. People have to learn in their own time though. My prayer is it doesn’t take you as long to see the light as it did us<3.

  104. freedomhaha permalink
    February 16, 2016 4:50 am

    ItsaPauling- I think that word “drivel” applies aptly to this situation. One of the saddest things about Orrin’s companies is that they have all of this outstanding information, but nowhere to actually apply the info. If you took what they teach (not what they do), and apply it to something of actual substance I have no doubt that other enterprise will take off. Here you have all of this “entrepreneurship” and “leadership” being talked about, but people become very frustrated when they can’t actually apply either of those things.

    Also, Mark Paul’s mustache in the Bonvera video from their website caught me a little of guard.

    I would love to attend a Bonvera meeting and ask how if the company just launched how all of these people made millions of money from it.

  105. Anonymous permalink
    February 16, 2016 7:50 am

    I thought today was supposed to be the big launch day. Looking at the Bonvera website today, It basically says they won’t give out details of their business plan or products until March, but join today anyway.

  106. Anonymous permalink
    February 16, 2016 11:03 am

    Even though the products aren’t ready, I’m sure the leaders will be pushing an Extroda subscription as a “must have” if you want to be successful. Tools, tools, tools.
    If it looks like a duck, walks like a duck and quacks like a duck…

  107. February 17, 2016 7:22 am

    This is fantastic news! Don’t you think that Tim Marks and the others learned what worked well and what didn’t while at Amway, Team, MonaVie and LIFE? You might want to sit up and take notice. They are on to something.

  108. Anonymous permalink
    February 17, 2016 5:43 pm

    Any rumours of Bonvera’s negative impact on Lief ? It’s close to time when Orrin Woodward usually changes the name of his business. Maybe this will push him to do it sooner than later.

    I believe Tim Marks is waiting for his non-compete clause to expire, and/or to finalize the legalities/buyout financials of his ownership.

  109. John Gabbert permalink
    February 18, 2016 2:09 pm

    Ok everyone, I have been reading through almost all the comments and I wanted everyone to know that everyone is entitled to their own opinion. I get that people say that LIFE was a scam and Bonvera is a scam. Let’s address them separately.

    I was part of the life business for a year and did really well. It started out slow and then when I really focused my efforts I made good money and I enjoyed all the material as well. The training system was a little expensive, but overall I still made good money.

    When Life started the “track and Save” it was awesome and just what people needed. I made a lot of money off of it and saved a lot too. Life was telling everyone that they were going in a direction that we would be able to make money off of the products people buy everyday. For a couple months they pushed it. One day Life decided they didn’t want to expand the Track and Save program and go through the phases it was suppose to have. Instead they stalled the program and said it would still have Track and Save but it wouldn’t go into the other phases for quite a while because they wanted to expand more internationally before they expanded on Tracks and Save.

    Everyone is putting down Tim Marks for leaving Life to start Bonvera. Well Tim is the one that stood up to the other Life owners and basically said hold on, we have been telling people that we are going in direction, we have to honor that. Well he got out voted basically. So he told them that if they weren’t going in that direction then he was going to because he is a man of his word and that’s what they told everyone they were doing. That is why he left. He stepped down as owner and member and gave up over a $300,000 a month income to start Bonvera. In reality he don’t own anything with Bonvera. The associates do. Tim Marks will not even be a part of Bonvera in anyway until his non-compete is with Life which is in April. Tim did this because he believes in doing what you say your going to do.

    Now Bonvera is going to be a huge deal. I understand Amazon has been around a long time, but you can’t make money online with Amazon like what Bonvera is going to do.

    I have seen the comments that have said things like “oh lord another energy drinks karen do protein bar”. Well guess what people. There is a market for them. Plus the Phyzix products are great. Bonvera has to start somewhere. It is a private label that the associates will make good money on. It will be expanded for sure.

    Bonvera has to start somewhere and it will take time to build the products lines. According to resources Bonvera has one of the simplest and most lucrative compensation planS ever created. It upsets me that people are putting down Bonvera before they ever see the Comp Plan, how it works, how simple it is, who has partnered with them, or even what products they will have to start off with.

    Bonvera associates are the ones that own the company. The people that run Bonvera have to answer to the ICAS before they can do anything. This is an Independant board that represents the associates. Even the logo is just a temporary logo until the associates can vote on a new one. Think of it almost like a union. Bonvera is going to take hold of the way e-commerce is going to be done in the future. Nobody has ever done something like this before so how can people put Bonvera down and say they won’t survive against Amazon. This is a new way of shopping and building a business around it.

    I have moved my entire life team with me to Bonvera because we believe in it. People have put Bonvera, Tim Marks, and the opportunity down before having any of the hard facts about the business. Well what I have told you are hard facts. Believe them or not.

    What people need to realize is that Bonvera is not asking people to buy anything they don’t already buy, spend money they don’t already spend (unless they want to use the business model to build the business), or not share things they don’t already share. If someone gets a good deal on a products at say walgreens, then they will tell their friends which in turn will go to walgreens and buy the product as well. With Bonvera having wholesale pricing people get good deals, they will tell their friends and if they want to they can build a business around telling people about it. Making money off of buying the Acuff you already buy, spending the same money they already spend, and sharing with your friends is so simple and my team has doubled since we started Bonvera. It is so simple, easy to understand, and very lucrative. People have not seen the comp plan because it is not even released yet, but they put it down.

    If you don’t put in the effort to build the business then it won’t make you any money, but people that usually complain are the ones that never did anything and just expected to make money with very little or no effort.

    I am in no way putting anyone down and telling anyone they are wrong because everyone is entitled to their own opinion and I am sorry if I offended anyone.

  110. Anonymous permalink
    February 19, 2016 7:19 pm

    If the pricing at Bonvera is so good that people will fall all over themselves to buy from Bonvera instead from Amazon, why do associates need to buy all the Extroda stuff every month? Our company never made our sales people buy tools. We provided the tools. Oh, I forgot, a lot of the people at the top of the heap make most of their money from tool sales.

    If the comp plan hasn’t been released yet, why are associates signing up when they don’t even know the comp plan?

    Good luck to you. I hope you and ALL the people you bring in are happy in five years. I can’t wait to see your Income Disclosure Statement.

  111. Anonymous permalink
    February 19, 2016 8:39 pm

    John Gabbert says “Bonvera associates are the ones that own the company.”. How many shares of Bonvera do you own? How many shares of Bonvera is an associate given as soon as they sign up? What is the current number of Bonvera shares? If Bonvera’s stock is not publicly traded, do associates have to sign a shareholder’s agreement? An inquiring mind would like to know.

  112. Anonymous permalink
    February 20, 2016 9:54 am

    This is for those Bonvera people who are not in the top five or six Bonvera creators:

    If you join Bonvera to make money – why don’t you state where you intend to be financially in five years, and then come back here in five years to give an update that is not “upline-speak”. Or put your prediction in a sealed envelope at home. Open it in five years.

    Think back to when you first started in an MLM – where did you honestly think (tell your spouse) you’d be financially by Feb 2016. How did it turn out? If you are not one of the top honchos in Bonvera, do you HONESTLY think Bonvera will be any different than the other MLMs you’ve trudged through, or do you just HOPE it will be different?

  113. Vogel permalink
    February 20, 2016 2:28 pm

    John Clary said: “Don’t you think that Tim Marks and the others learned what worked well and what didn’t while at Amway, Team, MonaVie and LIFE?”

    Worked well for whom exactly? If you are asking whether these grifter kingpins have honed their scamming skills through the experience of riding out several MLM/pyramid schemes to implosion, then, um, yeah…I suppose. If you ask the 99% of people who got duped into these scams and made nothing or lost money (and time, friends, self-respect, etc.), then no, clearly not.

    How can you even say the word Monavie and not want to vomit? Those incorrigible reprobates used Monavie’s $50 a bottle “expensive flavored water” as get-rich-quick pyramid scheme bait, telling people it cured everything from flatulence to cancer. And where is it now? At the bottom of the graveyard of horrendously bad ideas. You think a “kingpin” with a blot like that on their resume merits trust and respect? Hardly! A punch in the throat and a public flogging would be more fitting, as would a length prison sentence and payment of restitution to their victims.

    John Gabbert said: “Everyone is putting down Tim Marks for leaving Life to start Bonvera.”

    Not me. I’d put him down for being with LieF in the first place, or Monavie, etc. Bonavera is merely the next page in this sordid saga.

    John Gabbert said: “I have seen the comments that have said things like “oh lord another energy drinks karen do protein bar”. Well guess what people. There is a market for them.”

    Oh lord indeed! Do you not realize that people express incredulity because the market for these products is over-saturated and the last thing that’s needed is another idiotic MLM venture jumping into the fray with stupidly overpriced crap products that can’t compete in the real world. A less original idea would be hard to imagine. The product, however, is merely an afterthought; it’s all just the price of the admission ticket to play the pyramid.

    John Gabbert said: “Bonvera has to start somewhere and it will take time to build the products lines.”

    No, really, they don’t. They could just simply not start at all; and the world would be better off for it.

    John Gabbert said: “Now Bonvera is going to be a huge deal. I understand Amazon has been around a long time, but you can’t make money online with Amazon like what Bonvera is going to do.”

    Wow…did you really just mention Bonervera in the same breath as Amazon? Someone’s been eating delusion pancakes for breakfast.

    Didn’t they say something like that about Monavie too — like “it’ll be bigger than Microsoft!!!”. Hasn’t essentially the same lie been told about every MLM?

  114. February 20, 2016 8:09 pm

    John Gabbert said: “please Vogel, don’t hurt ’em!”

    John, my friend, as the Brits would say, you are full of shite. I’ll bet your Schedule C tells a different story about your LieF business than what you’re selling to prospects and to inquiring friends, and family. Mine sure did.

    You can believe harder if you want but it won’t change those numbers.

    And the ‘yeah but this one’s different’ cracks me up every time. Please. I heard it with the juice, I heard it with LieF. It’s still not true.

  115. The Truth Hurts permalink
    February 21, 2016 2:14 pm

    I have been reading comments, and once again, I want to point something out to people in MLM who post here; you don’t seem to understand what many former MLM members are trying very hard to communicate. I will try to define it quite clealry for you.


    So that you may understand that many here simply want to help you, we will DEFINE what we see going on. We do speak from experience!


    You may, after reading many posts on this Site, actually LEARN we do know what we are talking about.


    Hopefully, we can help you, by our collective posts, change the position you are in; we all hope you can DO something to help yourself right away. In fact, we will be your biggest cheerleaders as you journey towards recovery.

    So let us start.
    First, define exactly what the MLM does that you are currently in; Are they selling you hope, or a real opportunity? What do their own statistics show for the average participant? Are the numbers a little hazy, and maybe you just can’t seem to figure out exactly how they are making money? Do you not want to ask questions at an opportunity meeting, for fear of looking stupid? REMEMBER, the FACTS ALWAYS MATTER. If you don’t understand how you actually make money, then you need to put the brakes on, until you understand EXACTLY HOW THE NUMBERS WORK. This goes for ANY BUSINESS. One of my favorite sayings is “haste makes waste” in business. What I mean is do your due diligence! Would you invest in a business you knew little about? Not if you have your thiking cap on tight. Do not be swayed by emotion, or, the SUPREME SLICK SALES PITCH “you need to hold your spot.” Go home, talk this over with your Wife, think it through. If you get a lot of pressure to join, beware.

    How do you plan to dive into this business if you do join? What have you learned about what they sell? Because they are selling something, so just what is the product? Now, along the way, I have seen many post on here about how being in an MLM changed their lives, and they try to tell others on this Site how they have made money. HOW did they make money? This is a key question you must get an answer to, hopefully before you get fleeced out of sign up fees.

    Let’s use an example, keeping the names the same as in my previous examples. For illustrative purposes, the MLM will be Team Deception, and your Job will be simply JOB.

    You are in the learning phase, possibly you have already signed up with Team Deception. You will hear a lot about Team Building, Community Building, a new life style, etc. Maybe you think you want to be around all these nice people? My question would be don’t you already have nice people in your Life? Do you have a wonderful Church, lovely Parents, great Friends, and a decent job? If so, you could start a Bible Study at your home, resolve to help out at Church more, and volunteer at a homeless shelter, these being just a few examples of ways you could help others, pay nothing to do so, yet make quite a positive impact.

    Oh yes, I can hear it now, but we need to make extra money! Have you gone to the Library and checked out books to help you get your finances in order? There is an absolute wealth of riches at the Library, and it is all free. Maybe you could have a weekly meeting with friends, and talk over new financial strategy. Actually, I have watched some people I work with start meeting with coworkers; they started a “dump the debt” club, and the results have changed many lives now; They cheer each other on as they pay down debt. This cost all of them NOT ONE DIME. They didn’t pay to go to meetings, they didn’t run the roads at night, they didn’t pay for babysitters, or miss Family gatherings. They gained something priceless along the way too, true deep bonds of friendship. The company they work for is thrilled, because everyone seems to be working together better than ever!

    Now for the DO phase. Again, you probably realize by now that someone under you in your MLM is most likely not going to make money. Many people burn out from all the repetitive meetings, demands on time, and then they start to ask themselves why? Why so many meetings? Because, do the simple math, and lets be conservative for our example;

    Monthly Meeting Seminar, Location One.
    Ticket price $25.00
    6,000 in Attendance (actual) not pumped up numbers
    Gross gate $150,000.00.

    This does not mention other locations, so now lets say we had 3 locations all with the same numbers

    Ticket price $25.00
    18,000 in Attendance from across the Country
    Gross gate $450,000.00

    This does not mention a cut the seminar organizers most likely get on
    Hotel rooms,
    Food Vendors at Location

    Tool Rooms at each location will do massive business.

    Now lets take the same numbers, and say it is a Major Seminar,
    Ticket Price $75.00
    Lets be conservative and say
    18,000 in attendance from across Country
    Gross gate $1,350,000.00

    And that, my potential sign up, is where the money is at, no smoke and mirrors. The meetings are where the money is, and the Tools/materials, telling you “how to do the Business” is another piece of frosting on that cake.

    Now ask yourself this; in this example, Team Deception has an Income Disclosure Statement. Does your MLM have one? If you have decided to sign on, and want a cut out of all the people in your Team attending meetings, buying “tools” to “explode” their business, can this money be arbitrarily taken away from you? What is your protection against that happening?

    The next question you should be asking is how did they get their time back? Remember, when you went to your first meeting, part of the pitch is you will get your time back. How? In readily available MLM figures on the Internet, and, in my MLM example, the average person made $40.00 per month. Now lets think this through, you are looking for an extra source of income, so exactly how does going to meeting after meeting, paying for materials/tools on a weekly or monthly basis, running the roads at night until you get big enough to get a cut of some tool/gate money give you extra money in the Family Budget?

    In the last several years, I have watched various friends start up little business ideas. Making wreathes, repainting small furniture pieces for resale, making holiday decor, making jewelry, in fact, one actually makes items out of Duct Tape. They all sell on the Internet; some make enough for vacation or Christmas funds, some put away money for their childrens education, and some make quite a tidy profit. I think the secret to all of their success is they are genuine. They do not sell dreams, they sell a product.

    In closing, when you post on this site that you have made money, I hear you. However, I do wonder if your tax return tells a different story. As I said in a previous post, the one thing you CANNOT hide from is your tax return. If you are not making money, then you are losing money your Family most likely can ill afford.

  116. exTEAMster permalink
    February 24, 2016 3:45 am

    For those of you running to join Bonvera because you’re such a devotee of Tim Marks, please understand that Tim’s main beef with LIFE was the frequent adjustments to the comp plans. Why was he upset? Was too little money being paid to the new recruits? Just the opposite. He was upset that money was being taken away from the people at the highest levels of his group. So much so that at many of the PC meetings he attended over the past year or so (you know, the ones where all of those loving Christian men gather and smile for those pictures showing them all united in their quest to help the little guys) Marks was frequently complaining about how his leaders were getting shafted by the comp plan changes. So in a business where a very small percentage earn any noticeable profit, Marks was upset that very small percentage didn’t earn more. Don’t forget that LIFE paid for Marks’ travel, lodging and expenses to travel to its fall convention in California to impart his passion for a business that develops people of such high moral character, only to have Orrin discover Tim used his time there to have secret meetings with his top leaders to convince them to join his new venture — a venture he wanted to start because he wasn’t happy with the money the people at the very top of his organization were receiving from the efforts of the thousands of minions below them.

    Now, do you still believe the push to get people to sign up for a new company that has virtually nothing yet to sell is about changing the future of e-commerce … Or perhaps it’s about building a downline as fast as possible so Tim, Mark Paul, Chris Mattis and associates can start earning those big checks they were used to?

  117. udonome permalink
    February 25, 2016 2:14 pm

    exTEAMster -I believe what your wrote there is exactly what happened. Plus only a couple weeks before the fall convention Tim and his wife Amy traveled together with several member of the LIFE upper echelon to Israel.

    It has been better written in posts above, about the main goal of these people is get you and your prospects on their marketing system/tools.

    Now as a prospect you may hear nothing or very little about the marketing system/tools. Why? Because these people operate cleverly and deceptively. You’ve probably heard the tale of the frog and the boiling water. It goes like this. You cannot put a frog into a pot boiling water, because the frog will sense the danger and jump out directly. But if you put a frog into a pot of lukewarm water and slowly raise the heat the frog will adjust to each rising temperate change and eventually be cooked.

    In Bonvera, like the frog, you will be introduced into a situation where the costs feel fine.
    How? Bonvera is telling you that you can make money on the money you are already spending.

    I’m hoping you get where I’m going with this. Bonvera will then begin to gently raise the heat on you. They will tell you that you don’t need to be a salesman. You don’t need to have all the answers. All you need to do hand people audios (CDs). You need to buy the audios. Plus they will tell you that audios are way less expensive than setting up a traditional business. So since you want to grow your business you buy some audios.

    Jumping ahead -They will ask you if you want a million dollar business? Of course you are like, yea! Well scooter, have you invested in your business like its a million dollar business? or are you treating it like a hobby? This inevitably leads to more buying of high priced and worthless marketing system/tools to hand out to prospects.

    Eventually, for me, this led to my bank account being drained month after month after month after month for years.

    udonome AKA frog

  118. Anonymous permalink
    February 26, 2016 8:15 am

    exTEAMster – as bad as Lief’s comp plan is, your comment makes it appear Lief’s comp plan will be better than Monvera’s. I haven’t seen Monvera’s comp plan, but how bad can it get?

    If Monvera is going to charge people a monthly subscription to shop, their prices (including the monthly fee) better beat places like Costco and Sam’s. I guess that’s why associates need to buy tools (Extroda) so they can somehow explain to a customer why the high overall prices for the same products like Crest toothpaste. I cringe when I think about these Monverabots who’ve probably bought two months of tools without seeing the products, prices or comp plan.

    Monvera sounds like another Amway in the making. Maybe it should be called Amonvera, or Monveraway or Amverway. Y’all should come up with a catchy nickname.

  119. Need Team/Life/Bonervera like I need a hole in my head!! permalink
    February 26, 2016 9:46 am

    I’ve been out of the MLM game awhile, thought i’d throw my worthless two cents into this matter.

    The folks signing up w/ Bonervera and/or transitioning to Bonervera from Life should due their due diligence (what my old upline use to tell me all the time) and really take a giant step back and look at this company and its leaders history from a 5000 foot view. I remember hearing Orrin spewing from stage and quoting Harry Truman “There is nothing new, its the history you don’t know” (paraphrasing here). This transitioning game from one company to another is nothing new, been done before…….Team transitioning from Quixtar to Monavie to Life now some old lifers to Bonervera. The hyping of being in a business that will some day challenge Amazon is nothing new (back when I was involved it was the same thing but Walmart was the target). The idea of spending “anyway” money to buy products and get paid for it is nothing new (was exactly what was mentioned when team was part of Quixtar).

    The folks that are excited for this opportunity is nothing new, many individuals on this site had those same feelings and actually had a great deal of success doing it. They are speaking from first hand experiences of dealing in this type of business, with some dealing directly with its “Leaders”. To use a team/life/bonervera line would you rather burn your hand on the stove or watch your brother do it? Listening to these individuals regarding their experience about the burns they received while being involved in these type of MLM’s and doing your own due diligence on the history of these so called leaders would be very wise. If you really do take a crack at exploring the idea that some on here may be right I guarantee you’ll learn all these things Bonervera has hyped, was hyped before by others and themselves (insert Tim Marks).

    I’ve read the line “if you lost friends while in this business then they weren’t real friends anyways or “you didn’t do a good job promoting this company”. Folks this is just a very silly line to use and i’m ashamed to admit I had this same view point. What I learned over time was I was delusional in believing these leaders. Through God’s grace I was very fortunate to mend broken relationships w/ family and friends. When I look back on my experience while being involved in team/life I cringe b/c I really just made a fool of myself. The thing I hate the most is how I treated others in regards to if they didn’t want to sign up then I didn’t want to speak to them. I will say this isn’t something the business promotes but it is just a by product of what happens while being involved with MLM’s. Don’t believe me, just stop attending and see how much your uplines reach out to you before they eventually stop talking to you all together. I had uplines involved in my wedding ceremony who I considered real friends but once reality set in and I started to move on with my life I never heard from those uplines unless they wanted me to attend a major function so they could hit their goal (won’t mention his name but lets call him Birt Kirtles). To this day I never received a call, text and/or email from those uplines that was not related to the “business”. I was just another person to them that didn’t want to be involved in their deal so they stopped communicating with my Wife and I altogether. Now is that a true friend?

    Funny how the lifestyle Team/Life/Bonervera promotes by being in their company, I have experience working in the real world. I’ve been able to make more $$ than I’m smart enough to make in the real world, I actually enjoy my job and those I work with. I am able to help co workers and make a difference in their lives. My Wife and I outside of our home are completely debt free with a beefed up savings/retirement account. I’ve traveled to more places that I couldn’t have dreamed of after I left team/life. Although I don’t have a lot of “stuff” as in material possessions but I do have nice things. I heard about having all these things while being in Team/Life but never experienced any of it until I actually got out of Team/Life. Life has been great since I’ve moved on from team/life.

    In closing I’d just like to say any company using and promoting CD’s in 2016 is behind the game. If this Bonervera company is going to take on Amazon, i’d suggest they’d come up with a better platform to begin with than promoting CD’s, energy drinks and bars……..this people is nothing new, its the history you don’t know.

    Again just my worthless two cents…..Good day and God Bless!

  120. exTEAMster permalink
    February 26, 2016 1:16 pm

    I just wanted to thank the many people who have taken the time to post such rational and well-written posts about the truth of the LIFE, Bonvera and general MLM sales pitches and business practices. I know there have been plenty of good posts on this site over the years but the Bonvera launch has obviously ignited some real passion aimed at convincing people to try and see the reality of what a load of hype this new company is. If anyone reads these posts and still is excited to sign up for LIFE or Bonvera then they’re a lost cause.

  121. Anonymous permalink
    February 26, 2016 1:49 pm

    exTEAMster – thinking back to before you joined up with TEAM / LIFE, what would it have taken for you to read on a blog like this to temper your enthusiasm and keep you from signing? Was your excitement, belief and hope so strong that nothing could convince you not to join? A lot of these people joining Bonvera lost in LIFE, but that still doesn’t keep them from leaving MLMs. Just what does it take for them to see the light? A financial meltdown? Divorce? Maturity?

  122. February 26, 2016 7:53 pm

    Here’s a way to test the validity of this “business” and see the light: build 2 legs 10 deep, take a month off, and see if you still get paid for the work you did. You won’t.

    Take it from a former LieFer who had 2nd legs of 2nd legs in my 2nd leg, it’s not residual and it is not a path to freedom. It’s more like the road to serfdom…

    And again, I’ll ask the question: why did all the LieFers have to quit LieF before joining Bonvera? Especially Tim Marks, you’d think he had a big enough business to run on autopilot, be “free”, and go do other things. Of course that’s assuming LieF is what they say it is, and we all know it’s not. Neither is Bonvera. Just say no.

  123. Caleb Jackson permalink
    February 27, 2016 8:44 am

    PJ – You’re absolutely right about the “residual” part of the business. If it was really that residual, SOMEONE would be living the passive lifestyle by now. Nowhere in either Life or quite obviously Bonvera has anyone ever made mention of the guy who sits at home and does nothing.

    Don’t get me wrong, since my exit from Life and MLM in general, i don’t feel like i was extorted, i think i overpaid for some lessons that i could’ve gotten elsewhere, from more honest people for a much cheaper price, but when i started i was in the first year of running my own traditional business and i did get some valuable information.

    What it really comes down to (and it actually took me months to put my finger on it) is that these types of businesses do work if you are able to not give a crap about people in general. It’s even in the rhetoric, the analogy of the popcorn, where if you put one kernel in and it doesn’t pop you get depressed, where if you put a hand full of kernels in and some of them don’t pop it’s ok, because you still have some popcorn. When i heard this, it made sense, but the more i listened the more i realized if you want to get into Life or Bonvera and actually make some money, you have to be willing to keep pushing people no matter what the personal cost is to that person. If you care about people enough to where you start doubting if you want to put this person into your business, or if they don’t seem like a good fit, then you will never make money. I was never able to get people to a house plan without misleading them even a little bit. That’s part of the reasoning behind the “don’t talk too much” philosophy. Because if you spend the appropriate amount of time discussing what this business is, no one is going to do it.

    The idea that i’m supposed to work my ass off to spend an hour with someone who doesn’t care about me is insulting. The kicker to the whole thing is the people who can succeed in MLM don’t succeed because of the system of MLM, they succeed because of their cutthroat personality, which translates well to the business world and the sales world specifically.

    These parts of the puzzle are absent from the business plan because it would cut the funnel down of possible targets. When you put the puzzle together

    1) Sign up and learn some techniques about how to best convince people to join your program.

    2) Sign up as many people as you can get to join your program.

    3) convince those people that you know something they don’t, and you’re upline knows something they don’t, and their upline and so on.

    4) convince those people that their “tools” they buy and the people they sign up are the only ways you’ll share the “unknown knowledge” with them.

    5) find out which people in your group has the same character traits as you.

    6) string along everyone else in an attempt to increase your point totals.

    7) repeat with new group.

  124. February 28, 2016 7:36 pm

    Does anyone have access to the Bonehead compensation plan? I’d love to do an in-depth analysis.

  125. udonome permalink
    February 29, 2016 2:24 pm

    The yellow arrow under the Amazon logo was created to represent the message that it sells everything from A to Z.
    The white curve under the Bonvera logo was created to represent the message that it is bunk repeated.

  126. Brendan permalink
    February 29, 2016 6:46 pm

    The writings are interesting but seem cultic. Bad Faith is a sad reality in society. These writings seem to have roots in a cultic type environment perhaps a church or fraternity of some sort. A combative cultic personality can create a large following when offended and can sow Bad Faith. Good Faith and bad Faith will both grow

  127. udonome permalink
    March 2, 2016 2:11 pm

    Not surprisingly, Bonvera has a buy-to-qualify requirement of 100BV.

    I’m not sure if links are allowed here, but I found a website which reveals the 100BV requirement as well as how much money you will have to spend each month to achieve 100BV across the different the tiers.

  128. Anonymous permalink
    March 2, 2016 4:09 pm

    Just to “stay in” one has to buy $100 every month of the crap bar/energy drink or $500 every month of SC Johnson type products. I don’t know anybody who buys that much stuff EVERY month for their personal use. And this is BEFORE one even knows if the prices (including shipping) are less expensive that Costco, Sam’s, Target, Walmart ,etc. Don’t even ask about the $1000/month tier. Spend all that money and you probably get a tiny commission check.

    The leaders are definitely going to get rich from, wait or it, TOOLS! Subscribe to Extroda to learn how you sucker (I mean find) two people a month to sign up and spend $500 every month on toothpaste and band-aids.

    I like how the writer says he doesn’t just accept anybody into his team…

  129. wishyoucouldbefree permalink
    March 3, 2016 8:14 am

    You guys don’t have a clue what you are talking about, but great job on gossiping about something you don’t know about. That probably is one of the reasons you guys were never successful in a past venture, along with your lack of effort and expecting something for nothing. I know this is where you comment back that you were apart of this and know about it first hand and then you continue to say the same things over and over and over that you have said in this whole blog. So what, I am to and I am free! Nobody ever said it was money for nothing. You have not even seen the comp plan, the products and services, yet you have an opinion. What is your plan or are you going to retire like most people with a “Nest Egg”. Ha! Ha!

    “You cannot teach a poor person to be rich until they change their context. Teaching a person with poor or middle class person’s context is a waste of time…and it does annoy them.”
    ― Robert T. Kiyosaki

  130. exTEAMster permalink
    March 4, 2016 5:37 am

    Wow…. I am sooooo embarrassed. Guess I’ll put my tail between my legs and crawl back into my hole now.

    How can I not listen to someone who is “FREE” after jumping from 2 or 3 other MLM’s which WERE the greatest business ideas ever to a new MLM that IS the greatest business idea ever — even though nobody knows what it will sell, how much it will sell for or silly little details like that?

    By the way, are you that guy in my TEAM upline who signed me up because you were “FREE?” No, wait, that’s right, you couldn’t be him because that guy who was “FREE” had to go back to work 2 years later.

    Well, that’s not important. And if what you said didn’t make me realize how wrong I was and right you were, then the quote from Kiyosaki surely put me in my place. After all, who wouldn’t want to listen to the advice of someone who recently filed for bankruptcy….

  131. wishyoucouldbefree permalink
    March 4, 2016 8:52 am

    Who said I jumped from 2 or 3 MLM’s to Bonvera??? I’m still very happy in “The Greatest Business Ideal Ever”, LIFE. Its not always about the money, its about helping others achieve what they want. Yes, you can buy books and cd’s at any store, but its an organization of people that genuinely care about people. I personally have been changed by the information and the great association of LIFE. If I had never made a dime in LIFE its still worth it as it is the most positive impact I have had on my life. I would have just paid to be were i’m at mentally from LIFE, much less being able to have the opportunity to make a business out of it. I have also seen many other lives changed for the better through the association.

    Yes, you pay for the meetings, information, etc…., but if you work the business you can break even with the cost fairly quickly. Yes, you have to get people come to your business, as I think that most business have customers and need them to make it. Yes, you get products or training for the money spent. Most jobs the employer is paying for the training, but you are also making money for the big guy and a little for you. Yes, you continually have to work to succeed for years to come, but being FREE from a boss that tells you when you can take off, what you can do, etc….is awesome. The residual income is not bad either.

    What’s wrong with MLM’s anyway? Some people can do it and obviously some cant. There is probably a very low % rate of people that try to do Sales and are not a fit. Just because only 4% of people in MLM’s make it doesn’t mean anything, but they were not a fit. Do you bash Sales jobs because it is one of the hardest jobs to do out there and a very loe % of people make it?

    Anyway, we could go on for DAYS back and forth, back and forth….yada, yada, yada. The bottom line is it did not work for you guys and that’s ok. You, as I would, probably would make a terrible brain surgeon. It’s just not a good fit. I have been in some MLM’s in the past that did not work, because I did not do anything. I said I was going to be serious about LIFE and make it work. I have and I am also going to do Bonvera and make it work. Two income streams are better that one. Bonvera is a great concept and it will work. As far as knowing what we sell and the price, we do know that. Get with one of your insiders and check it out…..pretty freaking awesome.

  132. March 4, 2016 10:26 am

    “Just because only 4% of people in MLM’s make it doesn’t mean anything, but they were not a fit.”


    How utterly arrogant, ignorant and insensitive!

    This is what LIEf teaches you folks!

  133. wishyoucouldbefree permalink
    March 4, 2016 11:28 am

    REALLY?? What do they teach you where you work? Come to work, be a good little boy and will give you a 1% raise for the year. You are the arrogant, ignorant and insensitive one. I know what I meant to say and your opinion does not pay me. I’m surprised that you did not catch my misspelling of the word low, but i guess you are the expert here. “Oh wise one”. YOU JUST CANT FIX STUPID!. I will leave you guys to your gossip and your long life of working for someones dream. That is what the world teaches you folks!

  134. March 4, 2016 12:02 pm

    Yes, do leave me to my business I actually own and you can keep your faux-business where you are most certainly working for someone (Orrin/Tim), and which will NEVER change. You will always work for them. If Orrin wants to dump LIEf, and there’s a good % he will (see Quixtar, Monavie), you have to go with him. You won’t be able to keep selling that product. True business owners have the freedom to change their course of business. You don’t.

    I hope you see that.

  135. udonome permalink
    March 4, 2016 2:25 pm

    Link to the Bonehead Terms of Agreement sheet:

    It appears to me to be fairly boiler plate, but these a couple areas that stood out to me as odd:
    Point 9. ..”share genealogy information”…
    I suppose that language is there to prevent stacking.

    Ask yourself, is any of this at all like the innovative companies the presenter is telling you Bonehead is like/will be like? Amazon, Uber,

    Point 12. …”a $9.95 monthly fee…for back office
    Let’s see.. $49.95 to join (plus $29.95 a year FOREVER) + $9.95 per month FOREVER + $49.95 per month for Extroda tools FOREVER + 100BV per month to qualify (cost range $100-$1000 per month) FOREVER + weekly meetings ($8 every week) $36-$44 per month FOREVER+ monthly “game day” seminars $35 per month FOREVER + major conventions $85 x 4 per year FOREVER + $8 per month for ICAA FOREVER + tools for loaning/giving to prospects & down-line $? FOREVER

  136. Anonymous permalink
    March 4, 2016 5:50 pm

    Do I have this right (roughly)?

    Back office 9.95 / mo 120 / yr
    Renewal 30 / yr
    ??? 9.95 / mo 120 / yr
    Extroda 49.95 / mo 600 / yr
    BV min 100.00 / mo 1200 / yr
    Weekly meet 8.00 / wk 400 / yr
    Monthly meet 40.00 / mo 480 / yr
    Gameday 35.00 / mo 420 / yr
    Major Conv 85.00 / qtr 340 / yr (not including lodging, gas…)
    ICAA 8.00 / mo 100 / yr (so you can vote)

    Total per year 3810 / yr

    2610 is non-merchandise. If a person receives a 1% bonus based on total organizational merchandise sales, it would take 261,000 in yearly gross sales to break-even. To make 50,000 before expenses at 1% bonus requires 5,000,000 in sales.

  137. John permalink
    March 4, 2016 9:29 pm

    I see these clowns all over my fb talking about how they can’t sleep from the excitement of #Bonvera. They post memes all day long with quotes over a picture of exotic cars. They are always talking about how it’s 100% free, even though they have to pay a annual fee and pay to attend the meetings. They are making themselves look really stupid and that’s all I have to say.

  138. March 5, 2016 8:12 am

    wishyoucouldbefree – Ironic when you say…”I will leave you guys to your gossip and your long life of working for someones dream. That is what the world teaches you folks!”

    You are working for Orrin & Co’s dream. Nothing more, and you aren’t going to be able to convince a lot of people of anything different.

    Think for yourself.

  139. March 5, 2016 10:22 am

    @anonymous – I converted your information into a more readable table format:

    Expense Monthly Cost Annual Cost
    Back office $9.95 $120
    Annual Renewal $30
    ??? 9.95 $120
    Extroda $49.95 $600
    BV mininum $100.00 $1200
    Weekly meeting $8.00 $400
    Monthly meeting $40.00 $480
    Gameday $35.00 $420
    Major Convention $85.00 / quarter $340 (not including lodging, gas…)
    ICAA Dues $8.00 $100 (so you can vote)
    Total per year $3810

    $2610 is non-merchandise. If a person receives a 1% bonus based on total organizational merchandise sales, it would take 261,000 in yearly gross sales to break-even. To make $50,000 before expenses at 1% bonus requires $5,000,000 in sales.

  140. March 5, 2016 10:26 am

    @john – thanks for sharing this. Bonvera members have been posting similar things on their Twitter accounts too. Are there any comments that question what they are posting? Were they doing the same thing when they were previously affiliated with LIFE (or other MLMs)?

  141. wishyoucouldbefree permalink
    March 5, 2016 2:21 pm

    Here are the more accurate numbers (not talking about to the pennies different) I dare you to compare Roughly $2,000 ($1992.75) for doing everything with Bonvera to what a self employed person has to fork out yearly. Also, not to have the headache of keeping up with all the business/legal aspects of it. Done for you. Business tax benefit alone would cover this little $2,000.

    Expense Monthly Cost Annual Cost

    Back office $9.95 $119.40
    (Pretty cheap to have software for your business)

    Annual Renewal $29.95 $29.95
    (Cheaper than any Club Membership (Sam’s, Costco) and they don’t let you share in the profits)

    Extroda $49.95 $599.40
    (Cheaper than any training program that i have seen for sales associates in my years)(not required to do and I have never seen any flack for not doing)

    BV mininum $100.00 $1200
    (Cant count this as it is money you are already spending now. I know you don’t think so, but I know so and you will see so)

    Weekly meeting $8.00 $416
    (do not have to do, once again, but association is great)

    Gameday $35.00 $280
    (do not have to do, once again, but association is great)(only 8 times, as MC is 4 of them)

    Major Convention $135 / quarter $540 (not including lodging, gas…)
    (do not have to do, once again, but association is great)(nice little get away and once again tax deductible)

    ICAA Dues $8.00 $8 (so you can vote)
    (annually only and do not have to do)

    Total per year $3192.75 $1,200 is being spent already

    I’m sure you will have some other angle for this, but you do not have a clue. You can’t run a self employed business that would even come close to an expense of this little amount of money per year here.

    Lets just say this does not work at all. What do you have that will work? I’m not talking about working till I’m 70 and retire on squat. If you have it figured out tell us all instead of just bashing people that choose a different path than you. Just because you peel a banana like everyone else does from the steam does not mean its right. They expert animals peal from the opposite end because its easier and a cleaner peal. Its what we have always done, but not always the best way to get there.

    I’m sure you all will find something to criticize about, but it really does not matter. If this was the last day on earth you have spent a lot of useless time on this matter, that does not really matter. I have also spent to much time on here and need to get back to the real life thing that do matter.

  142. Anonymous permalink
    March 5, 2016 4:19 pm

    Wish – write a description of where you honestly believe you will be financially in five years because of Bonvera and put it into an envelope. After five years, open the envelope. Please come back and tell us you exceeded your expectations and you are now ‘retired’ and living ‘on the beach’.

  143. amused permalink
    March 6, 2016 6:04 am

    @ wish

    You like to point out that being self-employed requires an outlay of money to keep going, therefore an mlm is no different and is somehow just as good or even better. One big difference (and there are several but I’ll begin with this one) that you’re not addressing is the return on that money. Ok, so a business has expenses every month, but that business MAKES a lot more money in income each month. A self-employed person has a decent profit margin. It doesn’t matter if I’m spending $2000 a month to keep my business going, because that $2000 expense is facilitating an income of $5000 a month, therefore I’m making a PROFIT of $3000 a month. I dare you to say that with your mlm. How much money in income are you making after spending whatever you spend each month? That’s called profit. That’s the money you live on, pay your bills with, have leftover to put into savings plans and investment plans and retire on whenever you feel you can/want to.

    I started my own business 20 years ago this July. During the past 20 years I’ve purchased a house I love and paid off the mortgage in 6 years. I paid cash for my vehicles and have no debt at all, I pay my credit card balance in full every month so there’s no carryover debt. I have money in investments to retire on… see where I’m going with this?

    You are indeed working for someone else and making someone else a lot of money while you run around playing by their rules, fighting just to break even each month. My expenses go toward my business and in whatever way I choose and whatever amount I choose. You have little choice over your expenses and it goes into Orrin’s pocket. (or to whoever is at the top of whatever mlm you’re in.)

  144. Anonymous permalink
    March 6, 2016 1:45 pm

    amused – depending upon the type of business you have started, you can sell the entire business at a valuation usually x times earnings.

    I’d like to see an IBO try and sell their mlm business. LOL! (unless the IBO started the scam, I mean mlm)

  145. keep-it-real permalink
    March 6, 2016 6:50 pm

    I keep coming back to this fact & it was the main reason I quit MLM.

    How do you look yourself in the mirror and continue to put people “in your business” knowing that statistically, they have less than a 5% rate of being successful???

    Would you recommend a doctor with this type of success rate? Of course not.
    Would you recommend a lawyer with this type of success rate? Why would you?
    Would you recommend a restaurant with this type of success rate? Nope.

    Then, why sell your FAMILY & FRIENDS on a business with this type of success rate ????

    Of course, because Bonvera is different you say ??? Sure….. Similar to what all the other MLMs on the trash heap of history have said before them….

    If you are in an MLM for your own PERSONAL GROWTH, more power to you although there are cheaper ways to do the same elsewhere.

    If you are in an MLM to build the business and spread the lie to OTHERS, than this is what I have the problem with.

    The NUMBERS don’t lie !!!

  146. freedomhaha permalink
    March 7, 2016 6:26 am

    Wish- I truly wish the best for you and your family. Thankfully, due to the people on this blog I was able to free myself from the grip that TEAM had on my mind, finances, and relationships. Many of us on here were in your shoes at one point as well, and we would have given the same responses. While it is not easy to leave at first I can promise you that after the initial shock leaving TEAM LIFE will be the biggest breath of fresh air that you have ever taken in your life.

  147. Randy Hogan permalink
    March 7, 2016 12:48 pm

    Well, the Bonvera shopping site is now open. And, not surprisingly, you would have to be an idiot to shop there. A quick review: They have their junky looking Phyzix brands there, such as their energy drinks, at a cost of $48 a case (You can get Monster, etc., at Costco for $30 a case).

    But, they have brand names!!!

    Such as, a 2 pack of Ziploc sandwich bags (90 count each), at a cost of $9.99 for the 2 pack. A quick look at WalMart has a single pack at $3.01 each, or $6.02 for the same quantity.

    And, they have a Mrs. Meyers Soy candle, lavender, for $8.99…………….which is currently listed at Target’s website for $6.99

    And, there are Pledge Multi Service wipes, a 2 pack (25 count each), for $9.99. WalMart’s price? $4.13 for each pack, or $8.26 for the 2 pack.

    I would have taken a look to see how their Crest toothpaste pricing compares, but, they don’t list the size of the tubes that they are selling you, so, it’s impossible.

    But, hey, if you get enough suckers to buy stuff here, instead of getting it elsewhere for cheaper, you might get some money back. Boy, that’s what I want to tell people, “Sure, it’s expensive, but, I’m getting some money back”.

    Just wondering, how does ripping off people fit in with the “Christian” faith that so many of these Bonvera people espouse?

  148. Anonymous permalink
    March 8, 2016 5:54 am

    Randy – thanks – did they mention shipping costs? So, shop with Bonvera, pay more, wait several days for delivery, what’s not to like? Extroda better be the best sales tools in the world to teach associates how to sell the identical products for more!

    Warning – I am sure Bonvera will have some ‘loss leaders’ – a few products that will cost less at Bonvera just so associates can highlight those items, telling folks to check the prices for themselves! Thus implying that all items cost less at Bonvera.

  149. amused permalink
    March 8, 2016 8:33 am

    Goodbye, Amazon!

  150. March 8, 2016 12:17 pm

    View at

    My friend just posted this great opportunity….she is desperately trying to get me to sign up.

  151. Bill Smith permalink
    March 9, 2016 8:15 am

    No one said that Bonvera is going to be the cheapest on everything, just competitive. As we grow, just like any other company, prices will get better, shipping will go away and we will be a household name. You might want to hold your spot, without telling anyone on here of course, so your apart of this eCommerce shift. I mean just in case were big……

    Yes, you are right about the Ziploc bags, they are $1.98 more per.

    Why did you not stay with Wal-mart on the comparison for the Meyers Soy Candle? Oh that’s because Wal-mart was $15.21 for the 7.2 candle, same size as Bonvera has for 8.99. That’s $6.22 difference. Target is 6.99 for a 4.9oz.

    On the Pledge wipes, Wal-mart is $5.18 for the 25 ct pk, not $4.13. Being that they are now $10.36 and Bonvera $9.99.

    Once again we could go on and on, but looking at all the products overall we are very competitive. As far as the energy drinks they are all natural and only $2.40 each. WOW that’s incredible! Also, as you know, these other stores do not pay you to refer people to their website and buy. Its ok though, you will find other items that are higher, but more will be found that are lower. Once again you don’t get the big picture and that’s ok, but why bash Bonvera when you do not have all your facts, just assumptions. Pay plan is incredible, but im sure you will find something wrong with that to.

    Have fun bashing!

  152. March 9, 2016 10:22 pm

    “Hold your spot…”


    Always loved that line. It got me suckered in.

  153. Randy Hogan permalink
    March 10, 2016 4:14 am


    I appreciate you checking my figures, but, you are wrong. The Pledge 25 ct wipes at WalMart are actually $4.09 as of Thursday morning.

    I have no idea what size the candle is on the Bonvera site because they don’t tell you, just like they don’t tell you the size of the toothpaste, etc. Why?

    You think $2.40 for a mystery manufacturer energy drink is a great price? WOW is right. A quick scan of this new thing they have called the internet shows that you can get a case of Monster at Sam’s Club for $32.98, which is a $1.38 per can. Don’t want to pay for a warehouse club membership? You can get a 10 pack online from WalMart for $14.72, which is (I’ll do the math for you) $1.48 per can.

    So, in the case of the energy drinks, even if you get 25% back from your purchase (and, that’s not counting the money that Tim and Joe and Cody and the other guys at the top skim), you still would be paying $1.90 for a no name drink.

    You are right. We could go on and on, and I could prove you wrong 90% of the time.

    I can’t wait until, “shipping will go away” happens……….

  154. freedomhaha permalink
    March 10, 2016 5:45 am

    From a strictly business perspective this is the wrong time to tangle with Amazon considering the roll out of Prime, Amazon NOW, and rumored Amazon drones. I have made the switch to buy almost every household product from Amazon, and I love it. On top of that I don’t have to listen to CDs to do it!

  155. Anonymous permalink
    March 10, 2016 5:56 am

    Bill, are you buying Extroda? If so, why? If bonvera’s prices are so competitive, why do you need sales tools? Do you need a sales tool to tell you how to tell someone that place x has lower prices?

    As far as the candle prices you mentioned, look a few posts above yours that mentions “loss leaders”. Then look at your post. hmmmmm.

    Please come back in five years and tell us how you’re doing financially because of joining bonvera. Unless of course you’re one of the top five or so at the top of the pile.

  156. Samantha permalink
    March 10, 2016 7:31 am

    1. Bonvera sells private label, “high-quality” energy drinks. How do we know that? Because they told us. We cannot verify this though, because no where on the Bonvera website can you find a list of ingredients. The Bonvera Customer Support response to me was, “The ingredients of Phyzix product will be available very soon.” If you want to see for yourself if the product is really high-quality, you can’t. Just trust them.

    2. Bonvera also sells other food products. Again, no ingredient information. Bonvera Customer Support, “For the other products they are avaialble in market place out there so if you do google search them you will be able find out the details from those company sites.” That is verbatim.

    a. Do you think they might have outsourced customer support?

    b. Seriously, I have to go to someone else’s website to find out what is in the product you want me to buy from you?

    3. Has anyone checked out their affiliate stores? Out of 39 stores listed, four are Costume stores! Holy crap, seriously? Ten percent of my shopping options are costumes, because I am always looking for a good costume.

  157. Randy Hogan permalink
    March 10, 2016 9:31 am

    Well, you know their protein bars are high quality………….at least they had better be at the price they are charging for them! You get 30 bars at 1.34 ounces each for (and, I will even be generous and quote the lower “smart shopper” price) of $72.00, or $2.40 a bar.

    Pure Protein bars (2.75 ounces each) are currently available at at a 12 count box for $19.58, or $1.63 per bar.

    Lemme see, for almost half the price, I can get a name brand bar that is twice the size of the “Phyzix” brand………..

    I’m REALLY gonna have to listen to Extroda a lot to try and convince people to do that!!

  158. Rascal Teamster permalink
    March 10, 2016 9:40 am

    Anonymous, I love your question about Extroda, because it is the red flag that this is a training tool business under the cover of a product business.

    When Orrin first spoke of the Walmart if the Internet, the tools were going to be free downloads. “Who will need them (CDs) when it’s easy as, ‘check out this website and this pricing. You want in?'”

    All the Bonvera leaders were touting the same line. You don’t have to be a rocket scientist (just a free thinker) to realize that if Amazon can run their website from newbie to first time customer with a FAQ section and a customer service number, I believe that Bonvera can do it as well.

    Can any of you really see Mark Paul or Tim Marks rolling up to a group of 20-somethings in a Cadillac and a golf shirt with an energy drink to tell these kids that he has the business of the future. Folks, if this business makes you hand someone a CD or even have to sit down with them to draw anything out, it has nothing to do with the future.

    I can’t believe how bad they blew it. This is nothing like what Tim Marks said it was going to be back in 2008. This is the same dang garbage we ran from.

    Compensation plan does matter either guys. This business model sucks. It was a 50 yr old dinosaur the day they broke it.

    If they make you attend weekly meetings, monthly seminars, majors, that’s part of an old system that doesn’t work anymore. The only thing it does is load up the profit sharing bonuses.

    The main problem is that you are sending people online to buy. Nice concept, but people don’t buy online the way they do in a brick and mortar store. Maybe they buy a couple things from company A and a couple items from company B and a couple items from company C. Truth be told, the main advantage to the net is that the buyer is king. No matter what item you buy, it’s on sale somewhere with next to free shipping….if not free shipping.

    You won’t find anyone buying $500 of stuff from on online location like they will from Walmart. They don’t even buy like that on Amazon. Most orders are one or two items. When at Walmart, they are a Walmart prisoner, and to check out and drive elsewhere is a pain. So they pay more on some items and less on others. It all washes out. Not online guys. Different ballgame.

    But I wouldn’t expect Tim, Mark, Jim, Bill, and Chris to know any of this. They are outside of their area of expertise. They are network marketers…not retailer’s.

    From someone who has been in brick and mortar retail for 32 years and online since 97, make no mistake about it, your leaders have created a tool business from which to extrude your savings….a tool business that doesn’t even need to exist…called Extroda. Retail doesn’t need a training system to sell products. Network marketers need a training system to make money.

  159. LAconfidential permalink
    March 10, 2016 10:53 am

    “I can’t believe how bad they blew it…..”


    I was thinking the very same thing this morning, and you are spot on

  160. March 11, 2016 8:24 am

    @Rascal Teamster, Thank you so much for your very informative post on Mach 1oth!
    I really appreciate your insight. 🙂

  161. March 11, 2016 8:25 am


  162. Rascal Teamster permalink
    March 11, 2016 10:08 am

    Thanks DJ.

    This is something I thought about yesterday but failed to post. For our retail store, I am currently working with a company to rebuild our website. Our current website is not mobile ready. We haven’t updated for 6 years.

    As of last May, mobile searches now make up almost 58% of the searches online. That means that people are enroute and searching on their phone. The fact that I do not have a mobile site is hurting my search ranking. So I must redesign to take advantage of new online technologies. In business, this is called leveraging texhnology. I build it once, and it brings business to my door without me being involved time and time again. You Bonvera members are being told you are leveraging the Internet. Bluntly, you are being lied to, and you leaders either know it or they’re stupid.

    Because Bonvera leadership designed this system with CDs and books and married it to the 1950’s method of driving over and drawing circles, they created a system that leverages people…yes…people.

    Because your system requires CDs and Circles to be duplicatable, you are no longer leveraging the power of the Internet to build your people business. You are leveraging people to build your internet business.

    Dang guys. You people comparing this to Amazon sound really ignorant to me. You don’t get it at all. Jeff Bezos leverages the power of the Internet every day to build All they do is fill orders when people search out and buy a product. Could you see Amazon being successful if Jeff and his employees had to personally contact and explain Amazon to every potential customer before they got an order?

    Yeah…you laugh at that, but that’s what Bonvera is doing. It’s a fool’s errant, and is why there is no way Bonvera succeeds.

  163. March 11, 2016 6:58 pm

    Did Bill Smith really just slide a ‘you might want to hold your spot’ in there? Oh brother! Classic! It was like a kick in the head and mid-80’s Eddie Murphy standup combined together in one gut wrenching and hilarious moment.

  164. March 11, 2016 10:51 pm

    Oh my goodness people! Get a life. Maybe if you were busy being productive you would not be spreading so much garbage . Get your facts straight before you start blasting good people doing something positive in the world. Instead of trying to dig up dirt on people you obviously do not know and trying to build a case on half truth go do something productive. Obviously the people that choose to be involved made a personal choice and that’s none of your business . Please tell what you are doing to improve the state of our world and what you have to offer anyone, including yourself . Live and let live and if you don’t have something positive to say or encouraging then do yourself and others a favor and say nothing at all. This world is filled with to much hate and negative . Could it actually be that your opinion is Wrong! Anyone can take pieces of a story and create it to look any way they want. You have obviously mastered this .. To bad that you are using that talent for bad…

  165. March 12, 2016 1:09 pm

    Most of us have a lot to offer, including using our bad experiences to warn people about MLM scammers. If we can help a few good people make informed decisions, I’d say that’s a positive thing.

  166. freedomhaha permalink
    March 13, 2016 4:00 pm

    RW- I return to this site because I am forever thankful to the people that gave their time to help save my life. Thanks to them I have been able to return to the true passions of my life and my family. Not to mention that I am doing very well financially with ZERO debt! A life without LIFE has done wonders!

    It is my sincere hope that you see the same results in your life so that you don’t get chewed up and spit out like all others do. When you do this community will be able to help you through the confusing time after leaving like they have done for so many others.

  167. 1110 permalink
    March 18, 2016 9:49 am

    here is the nutrition facts for their bars, made available by their facebook page.

    I brought up that they are not healthy and are filled with saturated fats. They claim that it’s filled with vitamins and minerals yet all the vitamins listed are 0%. I brought that up too. They deleted and blocked me from their facebook page for making people aware of that.

    That should tell you all you need to know.

  168. March 18, 2016 10:31 am

    @cody – thanks for sharing. Unfortunately, it appears that believing in “the dream” will get in the way of the facts.

  169. Ricky Bobby permalink
    March 18, 2016 2:56 pm

    Nothing wrong with saturated fats. No comment on product.

  170. Anonymous permalink
    March 19, 2016 6:08 pm

    Is this a reference to when Tim Marks will officially announce that he is part of Bonvera?

  171. udonome permalink
    March 20, 2016 8:48 pm

    It must not be going too well, beacuse Chris is telling his CA team to sign up their spouse (or kids) and to put through 100BV stater pack orders (cases of the crap bars & sugar water). Why? Because the FTC allows it in all but 4 states and members will get a bonus..

  172. March 21, 2016 8:18 am

    Sounds like it.

  173. udonome permalink
    March 22, 2016 12:11 pm

  174. keep-it-real permalink
    March 22, 2016 2:22 pm

    Phyzix looks like just another crap energy drink. Oh well, as long as they can suck some profit out of it, why would they care? The picture of the can states it has “Acai Berry Flavor” on it…. One of the few worthwhile pieces of knowledge I got from my time in Team Monavie was that the Acai berry has no flavor at all to it. Lord knows what type of artificial flavor they have added to this over priced junk.

  175. Udonome permalink
    April 2, 2016 2:02 pm

    Looks like after only a little more than a month in business bonvera has raised the monthly BV requirement from 100 to 150. At minimum this increases the costs of being involved by $600 a year. New per year minimum $3,792.75

  176. Anonymous permalink
    April 2, 2016 3:50 pm

    I can hear the voices now — but it’s ONLY $50 a month. You can afford to invest $50 more per month to secure your future, can’t you?

    It’s now April. Any news from Tim Marks? I thought there would be something on the 1st.

  177. April 4, 2016 2:31 am

    What brought me to comment on this highly specific topic? My cousin. She and her husband have been trying to get everyone to sign up for this crap. I live 3,000 miles away from her and I receive a call from her husband, whom has never called me the entire 10+ years he’s been married to her. I see the area code and ignore the number. Very wise move. He leaves me some vague message about calling him back.

    The last time I visited them, my wife and I & our baby boy went to see my grandparents. I wanted my son to have a chance to meet his great grandparents, because they were getting up in age. The whole time we were there, not a single attempt on their part to stop by and see us, until they are trying to pitch me on this MLM bullshit.

    Then, I decide to see how the family’s doing, because we lost our grandmother in November, so I look at my cousin’s facebook page…everyday some crap about energy drinks and watermelon water and hashtag bonverarocks, and you’re going to get rich shopping on the internet for this crap, and to top it all off, some of these posts were entangled with bible verses. So, somehow drinking energy drinks and trying to scam other people to join your monthly addiction is biblical?

    This MLM crap is a non-creative, sheepish, cult-approach to starting “your own business.” I have news for your. Selling another person’s shit, while attempting to recruit others to sell it also, while making ridiculous claims that it is going to be bigger than Amazon, is not starting your own business

    How do I know you MLM people aren’t real business owners? I own and operate my own REAL business. That involves hiring/firing/visiting local customers and doing actual work. Not bullshit “meetings” and “seminars” to scam others.

  178. wishyoucouldbefree permalink
    April 4, 2016 9:27 am

    Udonome – Get your facts straight!!!! it has always been 100BV replenishment or 150BV not on replenishment. All i hear on here is crap. Just because you people on here could not make an MLM work, does not mean it does not work.

    Multi-level market (MLM) or network marketing is an American institution. Companies like Amway, Tupperware, Herbalife, Avon, Mary Kay and The Pampered Chef support huge networks of distributors and recruits who sell every type of product from dietary supplements to kitchenware to beauty products and are doing BILLIONS of dollars every year. Whats the difference in LIFE and BONVERA???? I’m sure you will come up with some crap to say. Nether here nor there it works, and works for many people. Also, talking about Bible verses along with energy drinks does not make it Biblical. Which, once again, proves you are just trying to grab straws to make yourself feel better.

    Because you have a different opinion does not make you right!!! Who wants the liability that you have with your own business. I’m making money, enjoying life and someone else is taking the bulk of the risk. Whoever comes on here and says come back to me in five years and let me know how your doing. I don’t have to!! I am free now and helping others get there.

  179. Randy Hogan permalink
    April 4, 2016 9:48 am

    Looks like Tim Marks is part of it now, based on this tweet from April 1

    Joe Darkangelo
    Welcome to Bonvera, Tim and Amy Marks!! #BonveraRocks

  180. exTEAMster permalink
    April 4, 2016 2:27 pm

    Hackneyed cliche: Thanks for your post. It’s unbelievable how people who get sucked into MLMs like Bonvera, LIFE, etc., don’t realize how shady they look when they call people they haven’t spoken to for years with a business “opportunity.”

  181. Brittani permalink
    April 5, 2016 12:56 pm

    Maybe it’s just me; but I think too many of you are looking way to deep into it all.

    People spend HUNDREDS of dollars on video games and junk each MONTH! People have hobbies, and the majority of the time they spend money on them, whether they have it or not.

    I am a former LIFE person (or whatever you want to call me). And honestly, I loved it more as a hobby than anything.

    The two biggest things it did for me was actually HELP my marriage and help US come together to figure out our financial issues.

    Not to get all personal… but my marriage was actually suffering pretty bad for a while. We lost interest in activities together beecause it didn’t seem we had common interests and we began then just to fight all the time. Money was part of the problem. He wanted to spend, I wanted to save.

    LIFE LEADERSHIP showed up at our doorstep (figuratively speaking) and gave my husband and I common ground and a “hobby” that we could do together. We started talking more, reading more and talking about what we read. We learned new things together and realized we agreed on more things than we thought. We even came together about our financial issues to get them resolved. Now we are doing great, both in our marriage and financially. With two children.

    And naturally, when Bonvera arose, we discussed it and just followed. Bonvera keeps my husband and I excited together and working together. And as a whole family, a 5 year old and 2 year old, we are learning to really be there for each other. So really, I see no harm in spending my money on a hobby. Just like everyone else does. Not to mention the extra income that it does bring in, we set aside to save up for our yearly family camping trip that we came up with because of LIFE.

  182. April 5, 2016 8:06 pm

    Not only did Life heal my marriage, it also cured my cancer.

    One day my son fell of the swing and broke his arm. I felt so bad for him. What did we do? Take him to the dr? Of course not! We gently applied some Life and instantly his arm was fixed!

    My childhood dog, Skip, died when I was twelve. Thanks to Life, he’s back safely in our home and giving us more memories for years to come. Welcome back Skip!

    And I’m especially glad to have grandma Joan back with us. I know you’re a little crazy but we sure missed you 😘

    We planted a Life tree on the backyard last spring and now money grows on it! I know what you mean about no more money problems. Went from 2.5 million in debt to a surplus literally over night! It feels so great to be free!

    I’m most stoked, however, about the fact that I am going to live forever!

    I owe you one Life. 😉

  183. Anonymous permalink
    April 6, 2016 4:28 am

    Brittani, going into an MLM as a hobby is a lot different than going into it to make enough money to live on the beach and have that residual income roll in. I would like to make sure that anyone going into an MLM to net enough money to quit their 9-5, understands the odds. I suspect that most go into an MLM for the money.

    Brittani, You mention you are now in Bonvera. if you don’t buy Extroda, you’ll save even more every month. I don’t think a hobbyist needs Extroda. Extending on that thought, if, all things considered, bonvera is less expensive that traditional retail outlets, then why is the tool Extroda needed? Why does one need to go to meetings? If Bonvera is so good, it should sell itself. Do you need to buy a tool every month to teach you how to tell a friend why you attend one church instead of another?

  184. Rascal Teamster permalink
    April 6, 2016 5:14 am

    Anonymous, great points, but I believe it’s even more obvious than that. Unfortunately, when you’re in, you can’t see it.

    If these products are so great and the prices are competitive, why do they have a volume requirement? If this is such a great business, why would they have to raise the volume requirement. Wouldn’t volume be a natural result of a great value?

    I do like the tool angle you took. Even if you aren’t a hobbyist, and you’re shooting to be a millionaire, you should never have a need for tools?

    When have you ever had a need for someone to teach you how to sell something you really like to someone else? I believe we all started that with our playmates when we were three.

    No one had to explain to me how to tell my friends how cool the new Star Wars Deathstar was, or how cool my new bike was. And no one has to have a tool to explain the benefits of Amazon Prime.

    It took my dad a total of five minutes to explain what Prime is and why he’s a member. It didn’t require a single tool, other than the prices on their website, and he didn’t need an upline’s help to do it.

    An obvious value requires very little time and effort. A hidden value requires a little more time. And when you’re trying to sell the perception of value, it requires a team effort and tools.

    You don’t realize this when you’re new, but the majority of the upline’s profit is tools. So while you’re out there running around telling all your prospects that your main product is Bonvera, your upline’s main product is Extroda. That’s why you keep hearing, “in order to build a big Bonvera business, you need a big tool trunk.”

    Haven’t you ever asked yourself, “if I’m really going out to build a big Bonvera business, why do I need a trunk full of Extroda, and if our focus is really on Bonvera, why doesn’t my upline want me focusing my limited resources on products?” While it seems to flow and make sense when you’re in, it’s really hard to see how conflicted that is.

    At the heart of this business, and most if not all MLMs, is a conflict of interest.

  185. Rascal Teamster permalink
    April 6, 2016 5:32 am

    Anonymous, I just went back and read my response. Wow, it sounds like I’m correcting you. Sorry about that. I was hoping to add to your post. It read like I was chastising it.

    Your response was dead on. I appreciate your reply to Brittani.

    Brittani, if you are going to build this like a hobby and use the products, that’s great. I had and still have a good group of friends who are in. I don’t have any issues with that. That’s basically what I did for the last year and a half I was in. I dropped my volume and went for the association.

    But when I did that, I stopped selling the business. To me, it felt hypocritical trying to sell the value in a a business opportunity that I obviously didn’t see.

    You are only being honest and believable when you sell it to the level that you use it.

  186. LAconfidential permalink
    April 6, 2016 5:35 am


    Dead. On.

  187. Anonymous permalink
    April 6, 2016 5:51 am

    I read your post as you intended. I didn’t think it was ‘chastising’. Your post was more understandable than mine. We’re all here to help others and each other.

  188. Vogel permalink
    April 6, 2016 7:28 am

    Brittani: “I am a former LIFE person (or whatever you want to call me). And honestly, I loved it more as a hobby than anything… And naturally, when Bonvera arose, we discussed it and just followed…So really, I see no harm in spending my money on a hobby.”

    Perhaps “no harm” if these companies advertised what they are offering as a “hobby” rather than a “business opportunity”, but that’s not how they operate is it? Your comment is similar to another standard boilerplate line that MLMers use, which essentially boils down to “if I want to overpay for worthless products sold by liars in a scheme where the vast majority of participants lose money, that’s my prerogative”. It’s akin to saying “if I want to buy dollar bills from the bank for $20 each, that’s my business”. It’s true, but that doesn’t make it a legitimate defense of an MLM company.

    Editor’s Note: Added blockquotes to improve readability

  189. Brittani permalink
    April 6, 2016 11:21 am

    @ Anonymous on April 6, 2016 at 4:28 am

    “Brittani, You mention you are now in Bonvera. if you don’t buy Extroda, you’ll save even more every month.”
    Answer- We don’t use the Extroda. It is there if we chose to do it. It is a learning tool, and it keeps everyone up to date on things. But we still have LIFE CD’s that we listen to. And we quite enjoy them.

    “Extending on that thought, if, all things considered, bonvera is less expensive that traditional retail outlets, then why is the tool Extroda needed? Why does one need to go to meetings?”

    Answer- The Extroda is necessarly NEEDED. It’s just to help learn… or be used as anything else that you choose to get out of it. Just like the meetings. They are there as a tool to learn and keep everyone updated and coming together.

    Although it is advised to go…honestly what I do is attend all “quick starts” and zoom calls. Which are FREE. And I get just as much info doing that. It’s about perspective and what tools you want to use to gain knowledge. Some of the info provided doesn’t necessarily have to do with Bonvera. It teaches you how to also just communicate with people in general.

    But none the less, there are ways available to still do things the are free…like the Zoom calls and quick starts.

    “If Bonvera is so good, it should sell itself.”

    Answer – Why do we have so many commercials on tv that keep repeating themselves? Why, even does AMAZON have commercials? Why are there billboards and ads? It’s advertisment! Everything, everywhere will advertise their product or their service. Nothing can sell it’s self, contrary to belief.

    It takes showing people, telling people, convincing people. If people don’t talk about something, or isn’t shown something, how do they know it’s there or available to them.

    We Bonvera “associates” are the advertisement.

    “Do you need to buy a tool every month to teach you how to tell a friend why you attend one church instead of another?”

    Answer – I am totally on Bonvera side here! But I will say, that no, you don’t have to buy a tool every month. It is recommend to keep learning and stay motivated, but it is not required in order to stay an active member. Like I mentioned before; there two other ways that are free, where you can get similar information.

    I honestly think it is more about perception than anything. Just to throw an example out there that is semi familiar with everyone.

    I personally don’t mind McDonalds, once in a while, but I think it is extremely unhealthy to eat it all the time. Some people will not even touch it. And some eat it religiously. Some get fat because they don’t exercise and then blame it on McDonald’s themselves. It’s all a matter of opinion and choices.

    Editor’s note: Added blockquotes to separate questions from answers

  190. Russell Chappell permalink
    April 6, 2016 9:49 pm

    Spouting off before listening to the facts is both shameful and foolish. Proverbs 18:13

  191. Anonymous permalink
    April 7, 2016 7:57 am

    Brittani, As long as you enjoy the results you’re getting that’s fine by me. I just want to make sure that anyone who joins with the intent to make a good net income, knows exactly what they’re getting themselves into. Prior to them joining, I hope they’re told in no uncertain terms that the probability of making a decent profit is very, very, very low. I wish everyone who joins an MLM has to write in their own handwriting on the application that they understand that they will most likely not make a profit.

    This is not aimed at you, but the last time I knew someone who claimed their MLM as a hobby got into MAJOR trouble with the IRS.

    It will be interesting to see Bonvera’s Income Disclosure Statement after data starts coming in.

  192. Anonymous permalink
    April 7, 2016 10:14 am

    Fixed: Joining an MLM to make money before listening to the facts is both shameful and foolish. Proverbs 18:13

  193. Randy Hogan permalink
    April 7, 2016 12:34 pm


    The problem with most MLM’s, is that, eventually some people, or, in all reality almost all people, will end up losing money. Why, in Bonvera’s case? Let’s take a little look. For purposes of discussion, let’s leave out all of the costs for Extroda,, Game Days, and all the other ways these “Christians” are reaping profits.

    Quite simply, as I have documented before, their products are, in almost all cases, extremely overpriced as compared to what you can easily find elsewhere on the web. As another quick example, a 4 pack of Fusion razor blade cartridges is listed for $17.23 on Bonvera. The exact same product is available for $15.08 on (and, I might point out, shipping is free at Don’t know what shipping is at Bonvera, but, being that they were just highly promoting the fact that in order to get free shipping at one of their websites, you “only” had to spend $150, I’m guessing it ain’t cheap.

    In order to pay commissions, you can either overpay for a product, and get a small portion of that overpayment back (because, Lord knows how much of that overpayment goes to the Darkangelo’s, the Newton’s, and all these other people who are at the top).

    Now that you have started, you are already behind the 8 ball, so how do you get caught up? You get other people to join in. But, eventually, what will happen? Just like all of these arrangements, there will be a WHOLE lot of people who buy some of the products, and can’t find other people who are willing to join, so they have ended up buying a bunch of overpriced goods, because they “thought” they were going to make money.

    There is nothing wrong with paying more for something if you think you are getting value out of it. Heck, people spend more for luxury cars, expensive dinners, etc., because they are getting perceived value in status, enjoyment, etc. But, in Bonvera’s case, the only value you get out of overpaying for goods is the hope that a lot of other people below you overpay, and then you can get part of their overpayment. There is no other added value in spending more for the same product.

  194. Rascal Teamster permalink
    April 7, 2016 4:26 pm

    Randy, you nailed me with the shipping.

    Everyone in this business is going to have to spend enough to qualify for free shipping on every order in order for this to even be close to the same online value.

    How many times will I have to place an order with shipping costs before my shipping costs will exceed the $100 annual fee for Amazon Prime where I can find the majority of these products less expensively with free shipping on every order? I’m guessing 4-6 orders.

    And with the lower prices, most people would actually save more money with Prime than people in Bonvera will ever make.

    Look, if you’re going to be the best online, you’re going to have to beat Amazon. You’re going to have to beat their value.

    I have no frigging idea how Amazon can send my dad a $15 oddball bearing with free shipping for my snowblower, but they did.

    People want to shop. People want convenience. They don’t want to attend meetings and listen to audios. They want to spend money and get back to Facebook.

  195. Anonymous permalink
    April 7, 2016 4:54 pm

    how does shopping at a bonvera partner store compare to shopping at the store directly?

    i can’t imagine a store like target would allow someone to pay less buying through a third-party website than buying directly from target. if so no one would ever buy directly from target, any kind of kickback from target can’t be much at all.

  196. April 8, 2016 6:43 am

    Is there a Bible verse about not fully disclosing the tool scam upon joining? Or how about if you don’t play ball and buy tools, you’ll never move into the inner “tool income” circle?

    I would believe someone at a coin laundromat who say they own a washing machine & dryer but enjoy the “association” of the laundromat before I’d believe someone who says they’re pursuing MLM as a hobby and attend the weekly/monthly/quarterly smoke-up-the-arse blowing…I mean ‘seminars’, purely for the “association”. That seems more like the talk of someone who attempts to come off as a tacit fence rider who’s too smart to be all-in but secretly sees this as a path to “freedom”.

    Ultimately, that’s none of my business, it’s just an observation. But I’m my regrettable time in MLM, I only saw 1 guy who showed up to everything and did it as a “hobby”, the “leaders” laughed at him behind his back and used him as an example to the semi-new guy. They’d point to him and say “sure, you don’t have to buy tools or show plans, you can be just like X. Wink wink.”

    The implication was that you don’t have to waste money, waste time, and harass your friends, but do you really want to be like X? Or do you want to be free? It’s an awful game and I feel slimy just talking about it.

  197. Randy Hogan permalink
    April 8, 2016 7:02 am


    I’m sure the Bonvera “partner” stores are just pass through links, in that Bonvera gets some payment from them if you click through the Bonvera link. Target and the others certainly aren’t offering any additional discounts.

    It’s similar to what ebates is, in that you can go to ebates, and click on the Target link, and it takes you to, and then, anything that you buy at Target during that trip, you get 2% credited back to your ebates account. I would bet that Target probably pays ebates about 4% of the sales, and ebates pockets the rest.

    In this case, I’m sure that the Bonvera percentage is probably less, but, I don’t see anywhere where this profit goes back to the “associates”, so you can probably guess where it goes to.

  198. April 8, 2016 11:43 pm

    PJ. Here’s a Bible verse that should guide our hearts and thoughts about our business intentions,,,“That no man transgress and overreach his brother and defraud him in this matter or defraud his brother in business. For the Lord is an avenger in all these things, as we have already warned you solemnly and told you plainly.”
    1 Thessalonians 4:6 AMP. A solemn warning to the church that things will not bode well for those that are using a proven failed system of mlm or network marketing to become financially free. Robert Fitzpatrick, a lawyer for the FTC has put out many articles warning people that there is no income opportunity in this system, and that you are actually being used to defraud people with false promises of financial freedom if you “work hard enough’. This freedom will not happen because it is designed to make a minute few at the top of the pyramid rich. Before the Amway law in the 80’s companies were not allowed to have more than 5 levels in their sales departments because of the threat of pyramid schemes. Life has 15 levels, One doesn’t have to scratch their heads too hard to know what is going on in this world, and it’s not good. mlmtheamericandreammadenightmare has been posting Robert Fitzpatricks latest articles which are very informative if you are being drawn to join up with a network marketing company or MLM. I hope this information will stop you in your tracks.

  199. freedomhaha permalink
    April 9, 2016 4:47 am

    Brittani- What percentage of people that you have brought into the biz are making a profit?

  200. Anonymous permalink
    April 11, 2016 6:22 pm

    What are the odds that both Life and Bonvera with Tim Marks have majors in KC on back-to-back weekends? Pure coincidence?
    What is the consensus so far on the impact on Life because of Bonvera?

  201. April 14, 2016 3:40 pm

    I Met Tim Marks hes good guy I wonder why People let life more $ to make starting own Mlm . I m still support life business I m a member but would like to know why some jumped ship especially high profile members like Mathis & Marks?

  202. April 15, 2016 8:37 am

    @buckwheat – Have you asked your LIFE leaders this question? What did they say? Do you know anyone within the Marks and Mattis organization that you can ask the question? If so, let us know what they say too.

  203. Former Sucker permalink
    April 16, 2016 5:55 pm

    Wow, can’t believe these scams are still finding willing suckers with all the history and information out there from former members. I wish amthrax was around when I got scammed into the TEAM. It would have saved me a lot of money and embarassment.

    Met all the bigwigs and Bradys right hand man was my upline. I never trusted Brady and the boys and got out. My upline got screwed over good from the team and opened his own LEGIT business and is doing well. He has apologized to all of us. I am doing well and the humiliation is finally being forgotten. It doesn’t get thrown in my face anymore. Took 10 years.

    All you dreamers, please get out now while you can. If you don’t, I know you will be sorry.
    Heard it all, Walmart of internet, biggest transfer of wealth in human history, etc. All lies, never changes. They always find a new scam. From quickstar to xs to grape juice to life to whatever. Its all the same BS.

  204. udonome permalink
    April 18, 2016 8:47 pm

    Why do you think your upline is constantly telling you to buy more overpriced products? Why did they make it that in order to get 1:1 BV you have to buy a starter pack, otherwise your purchase is not 1:1. How is that win-win? How troublingly different from Amazon has your Bonvera experience been? How is that promised free shipping going?

  205. April 27, 2016 2:48 am

    They are claiming the the future of the internet AND e-commerce business? I’ve heard this before. There is NO way they could have engineeres this without OW’s knowledge. Personally I don’t think there was a split. A separate company was set up to avoid something. I believe OW is still behind it all. That’s my take.

  206. Tim Villwock permalink
    April 28, 2016 4:53 am

    All I am going to say is this. Tim and Amy Marks were a great inspiration to me for a very long time. I knew that couple for a long time through their ventures with Orrin and Laurie.
    I have nothing against anyone who chooses to move on and do something on their own. I tried it myself when they went from Amway (Quikstar) to Monavie. But then decided to go a different direction. I remember Jim and Delores Martin at their beginnings. I think it is awesome that all these people chose to take a new path that God is leading them and I wish them all the best as long as they remember what got them this far. I will always be greatful for how Tim and Amy helped inspire me but for Tim to allow any of his leadersmeven to say anything against his past mentors is like me saying anything against my ex wives. Yes there were reasons for our separations but I only dwell on how they helped get me to where and 2ho I am today and that is what both Tim and Amy Marks should expect and demand from their leaders. I would never even think of joining this new group because of how they are portraying LIFE Leadership. I am friends with Chuck Getsel and have NEVER heard them program any negatives about their leaders in life tomthis day
    I am sorry Tim Marks but I thought you were a much better leader than that.
    You might have hurt your good friend’s Orrin Woodward’s feelings but always remember your roots. You may have to be closer to them than you think.

  207. Rascal Teamster permalink
    April 28, 2016 7:42 am


    I too remember Tim and Amy Marks. As my upline Policy Council, I had a business contract with them. My contract with them was to build a Team tool business and sell Quixtar. They told me that I would, if I built it, have walk away, residual income….that I owned my own business.

    I know that legally, Tim can walk away from Q and leave for Monavie…but what does that do to me?

    I followed Tim Marks and Mark Paul through four companies in 5.5 yrs to the tune of $25,000.

    Tim and Amy are deal breaking pieces of trash who’s entire sales pitch is based on a lie. You don’t own shit, brother! That makes them liars…they are unqualified to be good people.

    They and the Pauls are absolute garbage, and garage is as garbage does. I’m not surprised they left Orrin and Chris and spoke badly about them.

    Your either disillusional or forget the past. Tim, Chris and Orrin said the same thing about VanAndle. That’s how they roll.

  208. John Callahan permalink
    April 30, 2016 7:23 pm

    Ask Bill Newton how one of his former down line emeralds, Ed Libach, is doing?

  209. Shrek9612 permalink
    July 1, 2016 7:56 pm

    Sounds like a lot of messed up people hang out here???

  210. Anonymous permalink
    July 22, 2016 6:32 pm

    bonvera is mentioned by a few posters in this blog on the ftc website:

  211. freedomhaha permalink
    July 26, 2016 2:41 pm

    Overall a quiet summer in LIFE/Bonvera world.

  212. Blugill permalink
    August 10, 2016 6:00 pm

    A Bonvera Bot at work today was on the phone in a panic. A coworker who was on his phone overheard the BBot saying that it was a pyramid scheme and someone was going to jail. He then went an conferred with one of his Bonvera Bot buddies and told him he better call his wife and then went back into panic mode on the phone again. Perhaps something is afoot in the world of this pyramid scheme? Maybe, hopefully, it’ll start to crumble before it ruins too many lives!

    I’ve heard about this stupid “Opportunity” for months now, since before it opened because they were also Life Bots and broke away from that scam. They speak highly of the Tims, Mattis, Marks, Javinen. Those crooks need to be in jail, sitting at the top of the pyramid and collecting all of the money, not so much by overpriced products but their real business, Extroda.

    Just roll through Twitter and see all of the duped, posting pics of private jets they want to own, beach houses, hyper cars. All of that is possible in Bonvera….IF you’re one of the founders!
    I hope the FTC looks at Bonvera and hangs an “OUT of Business” sign on their doors!

  213. August 11, 2016 3:46 pm

    Blugill – Report back if you hear any more details.

  214. August 12, 2016 9:17 am

    I’m not afraid to be here under my own name and avatar. I am a proud LIFE member since it started. Thanks to the principles learned in LIFE, my marriage is better, my relationships with my family and friends are better and the financial principles we learned helped us rise out of over $100,000 in less than 3 years. Our team is growing, and we are seeing the realization of our goals and dreams coming true, despite tremendous personal (non-business) setbacks.

    I was with Amway under another team, and when that team joined TEAM, we joined. When TEAM left Amway, we all left. Then, when TEAM joined Mona Vie, we all joined. Then our team’s leaders left TEAM, and we stayed. A place was made for us on a team in our region under Chris & Terri Brady. When Chris became LIFE’s CEO, our team joined with Claude & Lana Hamilton’s. I can proudly say I personally know all of them, and am friends with Chris, Lana & Claude. I have also met and spoken with Orrin & Laurie and George & Jill Guzzardo.

    We work closely with our Senior Coordinators, who have worked with Chris, Orrin and Claude. They know the inside information on the departure of Tim & Amy Marks and the Bonvera people from LIFE, and have shared it with us.

    I will say this once, and I will say this very clearly: The departure was FRIENDLY. It was a business decision, NOT a personal one. Orrin, Chris and Tim are still friends. They shook hands as gentlemen and parted ways as friends and partners of over 20 years would expect to do so. If any of Tim’s people tried to recruit any LIFE members from their down line (who were remaining with LIFE) or someone else’s cross line teams, I know of specific times when Tim called Chris and Orrin to apologize and promised to deal with it. Tim and his people have NO further stake in LIFE past their resignations. If they are customers, that is between them and those from whom they buy their LIFE products, and they make NO money from it.

    The departure of the Bonvera folks from LIFE was all the departure of the TEAM folks from Amway/Quixtar was NOT, a handshake, a business decision and a wish from all sides that everyone do well in their future ventures. Tim, Chris and most especially Orrin took a great deal of personal and financial fallout in their dealings with Amway/Quixtar, and learned how to NOT do things when people want to leave. With Tim, Amy and the Bonvera folks, LIFE showed the MLM world how to do it RIGHT.

    Oh, and as far as the million people dream, as the tee shirt I’m wearing as I type this says, “LIFE Leadership — BET AGAINST US!”

  215. August 13, 2016 2:33 am

    Have you apologized to all of those people that you involved in the fraudulent Monavie business? You are currently answering to the same people that you are upholding as honest and trustworthy that scammed thousands upon thousands with the same lies as you are promoting when you are involving people in this fraud. They built their castles from stolen money. They should be repenting before Holy God and returning the money that they fleeced from people by promising them lies.

  216. Anonymous permalink
    August 14, 2016 10:43 am

    I was hoping Cathy Kilpatrick would respond to the Monavie “apologized” question, but all I hear are crickets.

    What spin did Team Life Leadership put on explaining the whole Monavie debacle? I suppose Orrin Woodward didn’t have to repay any of that seven figure “loan” from Monavie that I keep reading about. I thought I read that he would receive free and clear, a million dollars if he brought x number of Team members into Monavie.

  217. August 14, 2016 12:09 pm

    So very sad, I know. You wish people would take responsibility….do their homework and ask questions about the veracity of what they are being promised by these hucksters. There is enough information available on the Internet to warn people that they are taking a dangerous pathway, as Gods Word warns that fraud will be avenged by God!! Do they really want to be responsible for defrauding others? Some churches open their doors to mlm meetings, because these companies carry the Bible in one hand and the American flag in the other. They are just as responsible for this corruption festering on American soil as our legal system who has failed to call it what it is. Basically no different than Bernie Madoff’s Ponzi scheme, except that the pyramid scheme involves a lot more people. My husband and I both chuckled at your comment about the crickets, because that is exactly what I said to him when I was sharing about the lady’s post and the responding link to the Monavie scam. I seriously think they are taught not to debate with people. Maybe it offers them a sense of supremacy, I don’t know. They have been taught to dream big, and don’t desire to have a dream stealer in their pathway. Would you risk your family, your friends, your hard-earned money for a greed-filled’dream’ that is a proven 99%+ chance will never ever materialize. Please don’t risk all that is precious to you…and endanger your soul, friends….

  218. Randy Hogan permalink
    August 16, 2016 12:26 pm

    Comparison shopping on name brand stuff, and not the bizarre dollar store crap that they have a lot of.

    (please note that offers free shipping). I have yet to see how much Bonvera charges, but, I’m sure it ain’t free.

    6 pack of Altoids:
    Bonvera — $11.99
    WalMart — $10.33

    Shout Triple Acting Stain Remover – 2 pack
    Bonvera — $9.99 — $5.28

    Crest 3D Brilliance – 2 pack
    Bonvera — $8.60 — $7.99

    Downy Dryer Sheets – 240 count
    Bonvera — $9.50 — $8.95

    Mr. Clean – 2 pack
    Bonvera — $5.00 — $5.00

  219. Driven permalink
    August 17, 2016 8:39 am

    I love how people do not see that this is Amway all over. IF you want to sell a world of products and have a tools system that you can’t share profit in, JOIN AMWAY! They are light years ahead of bonvera/extroda. I also love how Bonvera people are recruiting LIFE people. Like seriously man, go out and make a name for yourself before you recycle people. As with MLM or traditional business, I OWN a vending company with MY NAME on it, but I sell Coke, Sprite, Doritos, etc….So to the person that commented that “you don’t own your business if you sell other people’s crap….” Is nonsense. If you have a business like mine or an MLM, if you treat it like a business, it treats you like an owner. The problem with MLM is that it is SO EASY to get in. My vending company was over 90K in capital and inventory (which I have made back by the way). If I service my machines once a month, of course I am not going to make money and get kicked out of the location for poor service. If you take an MLM, and you believe in the product, and you (I know this sounds crazy) SELL that product to a thing called a CUSTOMER, that is entrepreneurism and capitalism 101. If someone like minded like you says, “Hey, I’d like to do that too” you can them bring them into the fold and teach them how to get customers, and both benefit. So I like that part. If I train another vending operator all my tricks of the trade, etc, that I have learned over the past 4 years, I now have a COMPETITOR in the marketplace. So, MLM gets a bad rap because people get in who have no business being in business. If you can’t make 50% with the product, its going to be tough. That is what I make, on average, in vending. Business, traditional or MLM is risky. So is marriage, so is having kids, so is going to college, so is taking the job across town. But do the best research you can before you do any of the above. People who “blindly go to college because its what everyone is doing” (especially in today’s economy and job market) are as dumb as people who get into MLM or start a traditional business with no research and no plan. Have a plan and work it. Married? Have a plan to be a great spouse! Kids? Have a plan to be a great parent. Employee? Have a plan to be an asset to your company or boss. MLM? Have a plan to flood the marketplace with customers that trust you and believe in you. True entrepreneurs don’t get into business to make money….that’s the WORST reason to take a job or start a business. True people want to solve a problem, and will find a way to make it profitable because the passion to solve the problem is greater than making a buck.

  220. Rose permalink
    September 8, 2016 6:59 pm

    I have personally been involved in building compensated communities through most of the ventures you speak of. We came on board during MonaVie. You’re missing the whole concept of what the business is. It’s not about a specific product or company. It’s about building a group of people who use products and benefit from them and the community they are part of. For the most part they are good people who are there to help you succeed in business and life in general(Life and BonVera alike). Of course, you will always have some that feel the need to throw stones. There was no blindsiding going on here either. Some key leaders were unhappy with the changes made in Life so they went out on their own. There’s more to the story than that, but that is the jist of it. That’s the same as any CEO or manager leaving a company they are unhappy with. It doesn’t make them dishonest or untrustworthy. It actually does just the opposite. Everyone left one company for the other for their own reasons. Some people were hurt. Some had left before and got reintroduced to a new idea. Others just wanted a better business opportunity to make money. This doesn’t make either business bad. It’s just a personal preference.

  221. September 9, 2016 10:43 am

    I cannot respond to the “whole Mona Vie apologized question” because it’s irrelevant. Mona Vie was a valid company with a decent product and pay plan. Dallin Larson started it with the intent to hand it over, and did. That those to whom he handed it to didn’t have his vision or did things they shouldn’t, I cannot answer to. I am not one of them.

    As to the “loans” from Dallin and Mona Vie to Orrin, et al, if they were loans, they were paid pack with interest. LIFE leaders teach not to incur debt, and if debt is required for extraordinary circumstances, to pay it off as quickly as possible. I can assure you Mona Vie’s demise was not due in the least to these “loans.” Again, I am not one of the involved parties, and cannot answer to the question directly.

    I do know the Team members followed Orrin and Chris into Mona Vie because they said it was a viable product, we believed them. We needed one. Mona Vie helped the Team when we needed it, and we brought distributors and cash flow to them. Orrin and Chris have always stated they don’t do anything unless it’s win-win, and it was for all concerned. We were all sad to see Mona Vie’s demise.

    It always amuses me when over-reaching zealots accuse the MLM industry of being a Ponzi or pyramid scheme. I guess they never heard Tim and Amy Marks’ original story. They were sponsored in Amway by Bill Lewis, and reached the highest levels in Amway BEFORE him. You want to see a pyramid scheme? Look at your company’s organizational chart! Now THAT’S a pyramid scheme!

    It disgusts and grieves me when someone accuses the MLM industry of wrapping a Bible and a flag around fraud, and saying God will avenge for it. Be very careful where you tread there!! I know personally people who have come to saving faith through the industry, whose walk in Christ was strengthened and who have funded missions all over the world. $1 from the sale of EVERYTHING LIFE Leadership sells goes to its charitable arm, All Grace Outreach (AGO), a 501-C3 corporation which gives 99% (documented) of these funds to missions, women’s and children’s charities and other causes around the world. It has built churches, funded battered women’s shelters, promoted outreaches for troubled kids and other missions work. LIFE members are encouraged to participate at least yearly in a LIFE on LIFE event with their team mates, doing charitable work in their own communities. There is a dedicated website to tell but a few of the stories from these outreaches. (I personally helped paint a shelter for homeless women and children last summer with 45 other people as part of one.)

    The vitriol, ignorance and misinformation on this site is just astounding. The only intelligent statement I’ve read here today was the encouragement to do thorough research. Only, don’t just read the sites of trolls like this one. Read the blogs of the founders and rank and file members, too. Find them on Pintrest, Twitter, Face Book and Linked In and see if their public personas match up with their private ones. See what independent arbiters like Inc Magazine (who rated Orrin and Chris as among their top 50 leaders to follow and speakers to hear in 2015) have to say. Do your due diligence. When you do, if you’re looking, honest, teachable and have character, the MLM industry is waiting for you.

  222. Blugill permalink
    September 11, 2016 3:41 pm

    What you’re talking about is self awareness and being kind to those around you. People do that all the time without being involved in a pyramid scheme however all kinds of people get out of their own head on a daily basis and help those around them.

    If they learn to be kind even though they might never have helped another person in their lives and that is good and even if they learn it from giving their money to thieves at the top of the pyramid, then some good came of it.

    If they come to faith then that’s good too!

    There are millions of ways to make legit income without filtering their money to an upline and conning those in the downline to give their money up on fake training to hucksters.

    Life/Bonvera/Scamway/Herbalife/ whatever it’s called it’s the same scam over and over again. Con someone to give up money to others.

    There are actual businesses one can start that don’t require you to have to scam people.
    MLM is a scam, no matter how someone sells it, it’s a scam. It’s all pyramid all the time.

  223. Randy Hogan permalink
    September 12, 2016 6:45 am

    Wow. Cathy appears to be delusional.

    “Mona Vie was a valid company with a decent product”. They made grape juice and made outrageous health claims that had no basis in science.

    “Dallin Larson started it with the intent to hand it over..” Would this be the same Dallin Larson from Dynamic Essentials, which was forced to shut down due to misleading and illegal claims? Why, yes.

    These people wrap themselves in God and the Bible, and yet, if you look at their posts and tweets, they continually try to entice people through greed, with pictures of expensive boats and cars, urging you to join them, and you can obtain these.

    Yet, funny how it’s always the same people who bounce from the top of one MLM to the top of another. Could it be that, once the pyramid is full, it is time to move on?????……..

  224. exTEAMster permalink
    September 20, 2016 5:45 pm


    When you begin your testimony with the boiler-plate response, “Thanks to the principles learned in LIFE, my marriage is better, my relationships with my family and friends are better and the financial principles we learned…” it’s hard to take you seriously. That’s what everybody in LIFE tells people to convince them to join. Sounds like you’ve listened to the CD’s and speeches religiously.

  225. Amthrax is a joke permalink
    November 21, 2016 10:46 pm

    To the writers of anthrax. You morons have been posting things about these guys for almost a decade. Why don’t you find better things to do with your life and let people do whatever they want to do. What’s your plan for success? How about we trash people and waste our lives being critics because we are rotten people because that’s all you do. Grow up and give this horrible trash talking garbage site up. MLM’s work for a lot of people and they don’t work for a lot of people so who cares. How about you write about all of the business owners that make all the money that their employees generate and we will praise them and send them on vacations or shall we try and destroy them because they built something that works for them and the employees that are happy making them rich everyday. You guys are pathetic human beings and terrible people. You define the problems that this selfish country is turning into. Do us all a favor and go away or better yet, spend your quality time with your families like the people you are talking about do.

  226. Anonymous permalink
    November 23, 2016 7:01 am

    I believe as long as the average income (not profit!) per member is around $80/month, and half of members drop out every year, websites like these will continue.

    I don’t have the time to figure it out, but I wonder what the average income per member would be if the income of just the top eight members was not included in the calculation.

  227. freedomhaha permalink
    November 23, 2016 4:08 pm

    I feel obligated to continue to post on here every now and then because this site saved my life. Without having the confront the hard facts that were presented to me here I might still be in TEAM. Since leaving Orrin and Co. my life has improved in every possible way, and I want that for others.

    If that makes me crazy than so be it.

  228. John Callahan permalink
    January 7, 2017 9:09 pm

    I would like to know if there have been any allegations of physical abuse from these so called MEN against their spouses

  229. January 8, 2017 1:40 pm

    An interesting question…wondered, John, what would make you ask that? The reason I ask is because I have two situations that happened many years ago that left a huge disdain for MLM’s, esp Amway…in my mind. One was…I was at a sweet friends home (she ran a small consignment shop in her home) when her husband came home from work and started drilling her on why she didn’t talk to people that came there about ‘the business’ when they would come to shop. It immediately shut her down and made me extremely uncomfortable to be privy to that ‘shaming’ in my presence. Another time was when my cousin and his wife asked if they could show us ‘the plan’, and as he was making the presentation, she noticed a couple of things that he misspoke on, and he proceeded to yell at her in front of us and asked if she wanted to make the presentation. Both of these marriages, as you can imagine, ended in divorce, very sad to say. So it, in a sense, makes me wonder the level of pressure and control that spouses place on one another when that constant carrot of ‘unlimited income’, which is a lie, is constantly being dangled in front of those who ‘believe the dream’. Probably happens a lot more than we would ever want to know…so grievous!!

  230. ex-TEAMster permalink
    February 15, 2017 4:14 pm

    Warren Buffet’s Berkshire Hathaway announced Feb. 15 that it had sold off $900 million of Walmart stock, largely because Buffet doesn’t think the company can compete with Amazon, which now has a market value of $356 billion, nearly 20 percent larger than Walmart.

    But hey, what about Bonvera? Doesn’t Buffet know they’re going to be the next Amazon? I mean, has he looked at the impressive lineup of energy drinks, packaged nuts, air fresheners, anti-diarrhea medicine and more that Bonvera offers?

  231. keep-it-real permalink
    February 16, 2017 8:15 am

    Hilarious comments ex-TEAMster….. Yes, Bonvera’s vision is delusional….

  232. Rascal Teamster permalink
    February 16, 2017 10:24 am

    ex-TEAMster you make me laugh. It’s the same crap in a new wrapper. Amazon is killing everyone. They will launch their first retail store later this year in seattle. Totally automated with smart cart technology. Put something in the cart, your smart phone app adds it to the cart. Take it out, it’s removed. One click…gone…no check out. Just walk to your car.

    Amazon is devastating my segment of the retail industry, but hell, there’s always Bonvera. Mark Paul can save me…again. With this business model? Ridiculous!

    Actually if these guys had a clue, they’d be working towards teaching their people how to become Amazon affiliate marketers. Run a blog and YouTube channel, do some affiliate marketing and ride Amazon’s coat tails.

    Damn, they still run physical meetings and sell physical materials. Talking about milking a dead cow by running in the opposite direction of the market. Wake up guys.

    I had a former Turbo 25 (from the Q days) get back with the old group in Bonvera. When he was approached by the old team with the “what to do next pack,” he quit. Didn’t even make it to month 2. He said it’s an exact carbon copy of Q, and the numbers are pathetic.

    I haven’t been here for a while, so let me stir up some fire. At what point, with all the information available on all of these network scams to anyone who researches, do we stop feeling sorry for the knuckleheads that get involved with this? Every economic indicator and trend is moving away from this kind of marketing. You could be Amazon, and if you only marketed it the same way you market Life and Bonvera, you would fail. Attending physical meetings, physical CDs, digital downloads as expensive as CDs, having to get together face to face to “draw this out,” all tools of a dying retail model.

    For goodness sake guys, the Walmart Of The Internet is now a stupid idea. Buffet even thinks so. I know damn well that Orrin isn’t smarter than Warren…and that for sure makes Tim Marks even more of a business zero. Show me the money already!

  233. LAconfidential permalink
    February 18, 2017 8:32 am

    Rascal Teamster

    Pride goeth before the fall, wouldn’t you say?

  234. keep-it-real permalink
    February 19, 2017 9:19 am

    This afternoon I think I am going to grab a shovel and start digging for oil in my backyard. I’m targeting Exxon Mobil…. lol…. I do actually think Walmart can hang with Amazon if they leverage their store network. In my area they now have customer pickup area where you can buy stuff on line and if you pick it up in store you don’t pay any shipping costs and you don’t have to pay Amazon Prime fee. Most everyone has a Walmart store nearby and avoiding those shipping costs that Amazon has to pay is huge. Maybe this is in all the stores now but I heard it was a test pilot.

  235. GivingyourmoneytoTim permalink
    March 25, 2017 12:50 am

    Heh, its Quixtar 2.0! But I think Quixtar/TEAM had a better payout schedule, can’t remember. Either way, shelling out that kind of money for almost no return. I guarantee you that you will make more money in 2-5 years taking that $2600/year or whatever it costs and buying Amazon stock instead, than you will make in this TEAM re-load.

  236. Aaron Thayer permalink
    March 30, 2017 4:08 pm

    The are plenty of people who comment of here without giving their identity. But there are also plenty who comment and give their identity. Both for and against MLM companies. The reason for not giving an identity is for fear of lawsuit. I have a couple questions to the people who are not afraid to give their identity. Have are ever had to deal with a lawsuit? Have you ever been threatened with a lawsuit? Please answer for the people who do not give their identity will not be scared to talk in the shadows. I for one can not be persuaded by a stranger I have never met or even heard of talking in the shadows. BUT……. If you all were to come out of the shadows and show people who you are, maybe you might actually get somewhere and actually persuade certain individuals. Either for or against any MLM.

  237. Gloria permalink
    April 14, 2017 9:48 am

    If you really and truly want to know the reason for the separation why don’t you go directly to the sources and get the truth instead of asking for “possible conjectures” or hateful remarks from discouraged people. I was part of LIFE when they left and it was nothing like you are portraying it to be. Contact Tim Marks and Orrin Woodward or Chris Brady and ask them the real reason. Again, it really isn’t how you are trying get to make it look, deceitful.

  238. laconfidential permalink
    April 18, 2017 12:02 pm

    hey Gloria.
    some of us did ask did ask directly. As a result, some were shunned, some were told it wasnt any of our concern, and some of us were flat out lied to.

    depends on who you asked.
    there is a youtube video out there by Tim Marks himself that will tell you that it wasnt exactly amicable.

    go find it and watch it.

  239. Mrs. T permalink
    June 8, 2018 12:54 pm

    What’s disconcerting is how they get you to attend the first Meeting, by deliberately hiding it’s an MLM Scheme! They do NOT allow you to do Due Diligence prior to sign up – that’s of great concern! (I had to cancel my card!) Then they immediately pressure to ask: “WHO do you want to bring in?”! I said I will never deliberately misrepresent a business opportunity to my ‘Peeps’, as my reputation is sacrosanct & moral ethics standards are extremely high. Money is NOT more important to me! So, I’ve got to ‘kick-the-tires’ FIRST & be confident I want to promote this system. Just in sum, what is glaringly NOT FAIR is what IF something happens to either my DH or me & we can NOT maintain the demanded monthly volume, then ALL the work we put in VANISHES, while our ‘downline’ continues to chug away for ‘the masters’! I don’t view being a ‘slave’ as financial freedom. Prices aren’t necessarily even competitive, plus shipping costs are prohibitive. Further, there’s no prohibition for them upping the monthly BV at any time. That’s scary too. Sigh… just wish they’d have been at least UP-FRONT, and not have wasted my precious time/energy.

  240. Anonymous permalink
    September 30, 2018 4:54 am

    What’s the latest on Bonvera? What was it’s impact on members leaving Life?

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