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AMTHRAX 
Wow, talk about bad memories. I was taught the same thing in WWDB. Of course I am not active now, but I would not be surprised at all if they still taught some or all of this.
And I have heard from former pins who got to see diamonds backstage and indeed, some of them apparently think of downline as duped suckers.
WWDB had more than one diamond who had homes foreclosed – messing with someone else’s money?
WWDB had some diamonds who divorced despite having some of them talk about a 2% divorce rate at functions – for couples building the business. One WWDB diamond married another WWDB diamond after getting divorced, but the WWDB website said this diamond built as a single. Funny as I sat in the audience when this particular diamond spoke at a function with his previous wife and they spoke how they built an emeraldship together.
There are so many lies told by diamond leaders that it’s actually comical to those who have already left the business.
IMO, what Miller and Britt do with their love lives is their own business EXCEPT when they start dictating how IBOs should act through something like these cardinal rules; once they do that, they open themselves up to being judged by the same rules that they set.
Amthrax, that is the whole point. It is my guess that Amway IBOs have the same divorce rate as the rest of the world. The reason it becomes a point of contention is because some leaders said on stage that Amway/Quixtar saves marriages.
I believe making claims such as these puts these diamonds in a position where they are held to a higher standard than those they teach and they are also held accountable. Nobody would care if a 100 PV IBO got divorced.
The recent foreclosure and bankruptcies of a prominent diamond would also not be an issue except that we are told that “many – a – diamond” buys their homes in cash, only to find out that instead, possibly “many a diamond” has a mortgage. Again, promoting your lifestyle put these leaders in a position to be held at a higher standard and to be made accountable for their statements. I believe it is fair as what they portray is often a toll for recruting and retaining IBOs.
Perfect water, quixtar is not amway. All these zany things add up. And critics did not make them up but simply pointed them out.
Please forgive me in advance…But I have to state the obvious on this comment of yours: “Perhaps one of the perks of being a Diamond and above is that you can skirt these rules whenever you see fit!”
Sounds to me like Paul Miller and Bill Britt “saw fit” to enjoy the “skirting” a bit too much… 😎
They followed the “rules”..
Paul checked with Bill (guess it was okay), Bill did not pass negative downline (He must have approved), The rules only apply to those in the business, ie spouses..
I mean they made the rules, I guess they can “interpret” them as they see fit.
Bottomline, if you buy a lie when you sign up..then you will buy the rest later.
What??? Are you trying to tell us that there is a bit of hypocrisy in the Amway world?? No..it can’t be.
Mike – That was a good one. I hadn’t thought of interpreting the rules quite like that, but it makes total sense 🙂
If Diamonds would not set the standard so high, they would not draw so much criticism.
I remember a Britt speech, “If you mess with someone elses wife, you are out of here… No questions asked.”
This also reminds me of another memorable Britt speech I heard myself… At a Platinum and up meeting he told the Platinum wives that when the husband retuned home at night all excited after showing the plan, the women were supposed to be showered and clean so that they are “fresh and ready” for him.
There were a number of Platinum women who got up and walked out.
This begs the question, why do they set the bar so high to begin with?
I posted a transcript of a Bill Britt speech on Qblog. He was quoted as saying if someone messed with his wife, he would get “violent”.
And the discussion is spot on. Nobody would actually care or criticize this kind of stuff if the diamonds did not boast about it and then act like hypotwits.
First of all, nobody in the real world would think twice if Bill Britt’s wife messed around on him.
He’s just an overweight bully.
Second of all, what could he do? Beat you in an eating contest?
Get violent…..really. How about getting real?
I don’t think I could compete with Bill in a doughnut eating contest.
Another thing to note is that I sat in a function once where Bill told everyone that Amway is secure. Amway is all you need. You don’t need any other businesses. Isn’t that also hypocritical?
I remember a TEAM/Monavie bigshot once remarked on the number of minorities in attendance at a seminar. I heard it from a friend who at the time was a platinum. He was backstage having earned the oppurtunity to meet this man. The remarks were racist and very unbecoming, according to what my friend had said to me. My friend went to our upline and was told to shut up and not say a word to anyone what was said. I hope TEAM falls apart with all hypocrisy and lies.
Major Dave Stoner,
I would like to point out that, maybe, just maybe, a Team/MonaVie bigshot once took pride in Team having only a small number of minorities… but I can assure you, Team is now really SERIOUS about minorities – Team is going to take Asia (where the minority is the majority) by storm.
And then there will be Majors where it will be primarily run and attended by Asians, not to mention the tons of tools that will be made available in Asian languages.
Welcome to the Business. : )
p/s. My blog post on iNum just got a worthy mention on the iNum website!
My husband and I haven’t been in the business for a very long time and so I Googled our upline, Paul Miller, Bill Britt, etc. What I read about them has nothing to do with any business model and everything to do with the human, condition, i.e, lust, greed, pride, etc. Those people had great things in their lives and blew it, period. And I am sure that if you could ask them, they would tell you so, but again, their public pride is getting in the way. Everyone, unfortunately, needs to learn from their mistakes.
This is one of the reasons the LTD Team (Larry Winters’ organization) was begun. The cardinal rules are there for a reason. I heard this at a Miller meeting years ago… “What you compromise to keep, you will eventually lose.” What Paul and Bill lost through compromise, was a good portion of their group. Sure, the points flow may go to them, but they’ve lost the tape/CD sales off of a HUGE group (Larry and Pam are double diamonds, with double diamonds Joe and Marybeth Markiewicz downline from them; not to mention other Paul Miller diamonds who left with Larry after this whole thing came out.)
if you think about it, those six rules are just good business sense. even for people that only work at a job.
you wouldn’t do something new without checking w your boss first.
your boss wouldn’t like you putting down the job to your co-workers or subordinates…
… or embarrassing them…
or holding on to the money that paid the bills and paychecks…
or playing mind games…
or having affairs with married coworkers.
whether [britt or miller] are the ones that should be preaching it, is irrelevant. it still needs to be taught in my opinion, because popular society and schools and television all teach the opposite. and if it wasn’t for britt spreading that belief, i may never have found the freedom i have today.
i’m not condoning their actions, just showing gratitude for what i’ve been given.
So how are you an independent business owner if you need to check with your boss (upline) before doing something?
This commenter requested that her comments be removed from this site.
I was a Quixtar IBO for 8 years. I DO NOT blame my upline two levels up in ANY way. Brant and Judy Bills, and Gilbert Button were impeccable and had real interesting stories!
There are many stories in general multilevel (direct sales for the uninitiated) where the imprudence of an upline cost him HIS ENTIRE DOWNLINE. I am talking about losing a framework for creating $300,000 dollars, upward. Some of these people actually rebuilt the structures based on learning from their mistakes! That is the nature of capitalism.
INTEGRITY IS NOT OPTIONAL.
That was the basis of Sears and Roebuck, J.C. Penny, and the origins of Wal-Mart (AKA Sam Walton) It does not say as much about the Quixtar/ Amway opportunity as it does say about those persons starting their businesses. There are no shortcuts.
Wow, what memories. I was involved with Amway for years. Then it was renamed Quixtar and I continued going to function, buying tapes and books and buying products. However, I figured out pretty fast that whether I paid wholesale or retail it didn’t matter. The price point was minimal. That means that Amway is ripping off it’s IBO’s because they aren’t giving anyone a very big discount. The majority of the money stays with Amway.
Now back to BWW. Yes, I was part of Britt WW through B&P Britt, P&D Miller, K&J Allen, who I’m told divorced as well, Mark DeMatteo and then my upline. Oh, and my upline Ruby, Byron VanEpps, cheated on his wonderful wife with another distributor’s wife. That led to two divorces and Byron leaving the business. Soon thereafter the affair that Paul was having was revealed and suddenly I was no longer part of Kent & Jackie Allen’s team but Winters Marketing. After some digging I discovered that Kent and Jackie had supposedly divorced due to an inappropriate relationship with another distributor and his business had passed to Winters. I was getting regular messages from Winters Marketing so it was pretty easy to realise what was going on.
Anyway, it was at this time when my personal sponsors had informed me that the real money was made from the “secret business” and he proceeded to explain to me how that worked. Most of my upline dropped out as a result of the improprieties that had taken place. I think my sponsor shared the truth with me as a parting gift. So, I signed on to the Winters Marketing site one last time and said goodbye to everyone. I thanked them for their effort and I didn’t renew. Sadly, I’ve got a lot of tapes, that no one even uses anymore, and vhs tapes, that no one even plays, to get rid of. Take a look on ebay sometime for britt tapes or amway tapes. You’ll see pages of them. People learn the truth and they try to recoup some of their money, even if it’s a small amount.
In the end I realised that the only way to truly turn a profit is to go Ruby or Emerald. At the Ruby level there is some money that gets kicked back to you from the sale of tapes and books through your “leg.” However, I couldn’t see myself lying to those people who I directly sponsored. I wished them all the best and left. I believe most of my team, under Byron Van Epps, is now gone. Mark DeMatteo is still lying to people and living the dream. How these people call themselves Godly is beyond me. Although, there’s not a big difference between BWW, Network 21 and TV Evangelism. They all make a claim of happiness and success while stealing your money with the hand behind their back.
When Amway started Rich Devos and Jay Van Andel made cassette tapes to distribute to distributors for motivational purposes. The mastermind behind todays tools business is the one and only Dexter Yager. Did you ever wonder why Bill Britt was on Amways Board of Directors years before Dexter was.. Well here it is, Dexter in the early days started copying the cassettes that Rich and Jay had made. He then sold them downline for a handsome profit. Well Dex got caught with his hand in the cookie jar. As punishment Amway stated that he could never be on the board of directors. By the time he was caught doing this illegal crime (copywrite laws ect) his organization was so large and one of Amways largest and fasted growing distributorships. This was the birth of the tools business, Dexter realized the vast profits he could make.. Bill just jumped on the bandwagon. In those days they could buy a cassette for .11 pay a few kids $2.25 per hr to run the recording equipment off the master. Package them up and sell for 3.00 apiece. We (3 of us) could record up to 8000 tapes per week ( 5 days) I would get paid just a little over $80.00 for the week. They would sell 8000 tapes for 3.00 = $24,000 per week.. Then when the big events take place they would rent the entire hotel complex with cash at a bargain rate. Have everyone pay cash for the rooms. Get their cut from the increase in room price, which was still below average because they rented every room.. They would also get a cut on the meals the hotels served… They have a racket going on. No doubt.
Old Timer~
Thanks a bunch! Hope you share a lot more stories, I am sure you have many! 🙂
God have created Human Being as supper creation,decare the king of other creatures n the natural resourses.
(giving instruction to him ”you care about others,I will be concious about you n will help you)
He(GOD) set himself in side the creation,was very tention free,
whenever there will be requirement of help,He will be there.
But Human Being are
not
carefull about others,
the human being are
still animals n are in tesion,
The God is,too.
There is something
fundament ever lasting
That is snatan (which is endless n no one knows it’s start)
when the human being
was created by Him (God)
He have given word to him(man)
”You have to save others,
(others creatures n nature)
the creation of Him.
But the man have done
all acts
against the words of Him.
So man is still
not more than Animal
against the vision of Him.
Though He have created man
super natural like Him.
That’s why it is heppend in Britt system n it’s creaters & followers,nothing new.
Please note it,I myself is ABO but not get distrubed,not quitting because it.
I am planning to corret the the basics of britt system,so that people get admission in it will become a perfact Human as regaurds the vision of Him (God).
M. Jahangeer, that is the biggest load of nonsensical BS I have ever read.
WTF?
I’m still laughing! This is truly priceless! Maybe its a PC on meth!
@M.Jahangeer
Why are you breaking the cardinal rules? Did you check upline before posting here for the first time?
My husband is a former AMWAY Ruby direct. He is no longer in the “business” but maintains a relationship with a close friend of Paul Miller and Bill Britt. Recently my husband has sunk tens of thousands of dollars into an investment that I believe is a scam. He won’t hear a word I say because he’s convinced since Paul Miller is investing it must be a good investment. I have NO respect or trust in Paul Miller, Bill Britt or the AMWAY Merchants of Deception! Even though my husband is removed from AMWAY he’s still brainwashed by their schemes!!! I pray every day we don’t lose everything we have.
We were extremely active in Amway for over 10 years. We had a wide and deep group. We were downline from Paul Miller. We became a bit inactive – no 3-4 nights a week-after the birth of our first child, but still was in touch with our group. Our sponsor decided that we were losers and swooped in and took our group. He talked junk about us and our group were told not to contact us. So within a few months time, our sponsor went from having one leg, us to having a much bigger business and pushing us out. It was years till we finally heard the whole story. It repluses me to think how we were douped all those years into trusting our upline. And all those things-personal or not-were going on. We invested time, money and energy into our business only for it to be swiped quickly. We were told in every presentation that you could build a business and retire or let the business work for you. Absolutely false. Dishonesty and greed are always present and it was rampant in our upline.
@Vicki Thompson: wow, your story is right in line with Eric Scheibeler’s (author of: Merchants of Deception) (he was in almost 10 yrs, too, but struggled from the 8th or so year on to come to terms with things)….only they took bashing to a whole new level as Eric and Pat tried to leave: telling people he was a child molester, an alcoholic, and other various and sundry slanders and threats. You’re lucky you got out with any dignity at all left, eh?
I see others here have not listed their real names. Didn’t know how to choose another name for posting. Oh well, it’s out there and it’s the truth.
I too was part of the Mark Dematteo REMA organization in the Fairfax, VA community during 1991-94 time frame and bought all the tapes, attended all the functions and contact 100 people. After realizing that I was burning myself out, without any return on Investment, I realized that I was not willing to invest any more time or money in the MLM. i believe that the leadship was sincere, looking for the better way, but in the long run it was a con job. (Steve)
mankind is not perfect….. we all make mistakes and we dont know exactly what is really true or what is just rumors going around… i am not a active IBO but i learned to respect that ordinary man that did extraordinary things with his time to be where he is at…..
The reason why Diamond IBO’s are so sold on obeying Cardinal rules is because of past event….thus the reason they exist….of course speaking of these things is nothing but negative so why do they need to be relived….mAn is full of mistakes..its in the bible..they are people.. so they will phuck up on occasions….they never state…oh we’re perfect and you need to praise us ……and if you knew Bill b4 he pasted you’d know he spoke of that….and he never stated he was a perfect man…also because of bill there’s success in places like japan,, Jamaica…. Trinidad.. Thailand.. India……only weak minded people and quitters come up with reasons as to why they didn’t build it or quit….Winners find a way no matter whats going on around them….my success is not determined on who screws who over… Walt Disney & Oprah were screwed over on more accounts then any of you will ever go through….none of you have any cue to life because you would know that the corporate world is a whole lot worst….at least they did their best to correct their mistakes…only God can judge them for their actions….there are 25 year old diamonds….23 year old emeralds who brought their mother to platinum ( because kids would scam their moms…right)….18year old platinums….parents who are diamonds and just recognized not one but two of their kids as diamonds.( because parents would screw their kids over…right ) your all just holding on to a bunch of bullshit excuses as to why your failures….get over it and move on….at the end of the day they’ve changed and helped more lives than you’ve ever dared…at least they tried while you decided to only be selfish and care about yourselves.
Wow. Those who are perfect, please cast the first stone. I was in the business for 5 years and made a business decision to move on. But no doubt I was highly enriched by the education and association in the business which has benefitted me in every area of my life. It
s about developing people and being better people, not perfect people. All the best my friends, sincerely.
It never ceases to amaze, that the same ole tiring defense and offensive hypocrisy of using the verses in the bible to justify the damages, and to distract from the facts…. (cognitive dissonance)…yawn, nothing “new” under the sun. Offensive, while completely ignoring the testimonies, mountains of evidence, and damage done to the majority.
The fact is, they all know and follow the “cardinal rules” in the scheme of MLM. Ignorance apparently remains blissful.
Kyle states: “I was in the business for 5 years and made a business decision to move on.” Why. Kyle? Interesting that wasn’t important to mention. Perhaps a “business decision” due to a 5 year “negative” cash flow? Pretty confident that is what was happening.
That is just super that YOU think you were “highly enriched” but have you asked ALL of those downline that churned through your group that had losses, negative experiences or even asked why they left? (if you had anyone in your group) why did THEY “moved on” and if were those 97-99% plus, “highly enriched?”
Ya see, it isn’t just about you, Kyle. But I do see the “cardinal rule”…” at play….speak no negative”… no matter how “negative” the facts and truth of damages done to the masses are, right?
Good luck Kyle, now that you have “moved on”,( if you didn’t jump into another MLM), at least you won’t be “recruiting” and deceiving others, perpetuating their losses, month after month for years.
Now that is a “positive.” 🙂
Kyle- The issue is that when you sign people up they have less than a 1% chance of making a profit at all much less obtaining the lifestyle demonstrated from stage.
I recently learned of Bill Britt’s death. Here’s my eulogy on my blog: http://seanpaulmurphyville.blogspot.com/2014/09/death-of-amway-god.html
Sean – Thanks for posting a link to your post. Well written, your story sums up the experience of many people who “grew up” in Amway. To many ex-distributors, Britt was one of many gods (with a little ‘g’ as you called it) within Amway. And, as you’re probably aware, deification of the top leaders is the MO for many MLMs.
Thanks Sean Murphy for bringing this point up. We felt this but never really verbalized it.
Our years in team made us feel the same way about others.
We see this attitude in many current team/lief members.
“Still, despite the damage the prosperity gospel did to me, when I think of Bill Britt, I primarily think of the general hatefulness that he and his henchmen instilled in me. He divided the world into winners and losers — and 99% of the population were losers. Your value as a human being was entirely dependent on your net worth,or your attitude toward the Amway business. You could be poor as dirt and still be a winner if you were in Amway. “
Sean Paul Murphy~
Thanks for sharing. They all tout this grand legacy they will be leaving…what a shame. I don’t believe I know anyone who would want to be known for what these MLMer’s are known for.
Not in a million years would we have ever heard of or even known of Bill Britt, had we not got “recruited”..
We weren’t “Amway” tho.. (according to the Woodward training “proven system”)..ummmm. NO! “We were the Team of Destiny”, then team, team in hiding, then team monavie, now they are Team/ LIEf. Still only the names change 🙂
It is a shame the way the whole propaganda, cult of personality, ego driven, power hungry gods that get created by the systematic undue influence. It is designed to control and make “gods” out of the Top GUY. Here is a reminder for them.
Exodus 20:1-4 says:
And God spoke all these words:
“I am the Lord your God, who brought you out of Egypt, out of the land of slavery.
“You shall have no other gods before me.
“You shall not make for yourself an image in the form of anything in heaven above or on the earth beneath or in the waters below.”
.
Thanks for all of the kind words. I’m glad you found my blog meaningful. What surprises me most is that I haven’t been attacked by a lot of distributors saying what a loser I am. I suppose that will come in time!
My wife and I were directly sponsored from a Diamond…..I have not met too many men with the arrogance and ego of some supposed christians….At phone team one night, a song came on and a discussion began about the songwriter..My sponsor vehemently claimed he was correct as to the author, however, I countered that the author was someone else….He bet me $100. He lost…..He then began to intentionally embarass me at the table because he lost the bet….Another time, he told my wife that people with AIDS deserved the illness because of their lifestyle…(this was a christian!). My wife, (an RN), came home after this comment and told me she would NEVER again go to his house for product pickup….Years later….I own my own business, have time for my children and my wife, have never bought another tape or product, and wish I had kicked my upline’s ass one time for his ignorance and arrogance……The way they conduct themselves and the smugness with which they treat other people who do not share their vision, is shameful….
I am sure for some of them the business has worked. BUT…..there are MANY businesses that work as well that do not involve the idol-worship and hypocrisy of these “leaders”. If I should ever meet or talk to my former upline, and for even a moment sensed a smidgen of condescension in his voice toward me or my wife, he had better hope he has taken his vitamins, cause he is gonna need them…….thanks for listening….
Vincent Argio~
Thanks for sharing. I have recognized the very same revolting hypocrisy. These self-proclaimed “leaders” through their tightly controlled cult-ure propaganda, demands according to them “benevolent” (worship) edification to the 1 top few but mainly the one ‘god’…promotes the false ‘gods’ effect and in turn creates unquestioning trust… nothing is more distasteful and disgraceful.
The criticizing, condemning, complaining (EVERYTHING outside of their little conformed cult-ure) is bad…it creates hate, and judgmental attitudes towards the rest of the world. Simply, you are either conform or you are somehow seen as against them. It is the us vs. the world attitude, in a nutshell and is at the core of the system. You must adopt their beliefs without question or you won’t belong… it is unrecognizable to those under the spell … but represents their hate for everything outside of their closed mindedness. Their relentless delusions of (controlled positional) superiority ego, is judgment, arrogant, shameful, and repulsive. In other words the cult-ure is not conducive to the individual, beliefs, thoughts, or feelings.
It won’t work….they have to change your belief system and must keep you distracted and confused with their millions of mixed bombarded propaganda and deceptive messages to keep you from thinking on your own… no one would ever fall for the less than minimum wage for the masses…. “business opportunity”.
The egotistical superior attitude, displayed in the TOP 4 or 5 “leaders” have convinced themselves they are smarter than the rest of the world, not only does this devalue others ait is condescending, arrogant and the basic violation of relationships 101. And most importantly shows the hypocrisy because it violates the principles in the Bible, that they claim and shout they follow.
Will say it is a well oiled, refined, clever, slimy but strategic tightly controlled propaganda machine ..subtle but extremely effective, that will be hazardous to every area of your life if they find while in a vulnerable place in your life…clearly it creates blind followers, you don’t have to look far to find the evidence, just read the blind… cognitive dissonance in the “followers” comments.
Vincent said: “wish I had kicked my upline’s ass one time for his ignorance and arrogance.”
I wish you did too. An occasional upline ass kicking would probably serve as an effective remedy against the proliferation of pyramid schemes. People who live off the exploitation of others should have to pay a hefty price.
“People who live off the exploitation of others should have to pay a hefty price.”
This is the reason that I continue to contribute in this site. I hope that some day those that are so exploitative will pay that price.
You and me both brother. Cheers!
Loved the… “cuz he’s gonna need them vitamins!” lol
The Herbalief investigation, well, can’t be helping their ’cause’ any. Potentially we could see a domino effect on the price to be paid. I haven’t lost hope!
I was downline from Paul Miller in the early 2000s. Since my leg was rapidly growing (50+ new members in several months with 7500PV) we started to get a lot of attention from upline. Paul Miller always struck me as a complete douchebag, but in fairness I never did get to know him very well. I actually really appreciated the training / tools they sold us. Even though they ripped us all off on the prices ($7 for a cassette recording) and books that were marked up 20% above Amazon.com prices, the principles helped me be successful in business once I quit Amway. I was in a (now defunct) part of Paul Miller’s business under John and Kathy Merris. I never met them, but their highest pin was EDC. We had another Diamond between us named John Felix. I would guess that both the Merris / Felix diamonds are like many of the other Diamonds from the 1980s-1990s, they made it 20 years ago and have been in a long slow decline, now running Sapphire volume or less.
What a bunch of hypocrites. Hide behind religion and claim to be righteous but wolves in disguise. How scary to be in that company. The NC bible thumping hedonistic fork tongues. I despise these individuals. Give me the northeast any day. At least they tell it to your face instead of behind your back.