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Going To A Million… in 2016!

July 30, 2011

Five years. That’s the date that TEAM Leader Orrin Woodward has set for his organization to reach one million members. Speaking on Friday night at the Leadership Conference in Columbus, Ohio, Woodward got the assembled crowd excited about the prospect for the coming half-decade.

Click to see a current countdown of TEAM going to a million! »

Haven’t we heard this before? Ex-TEAM members, please give new TEAM members a history lesson about similar proclamations made by Orrin Woodward from the past.

Personally, I think Orrin will find a very difficult time achieving this lofty mark. Let’s crunch some numbers starting backwards at year five:

Granted, some of this money is going to MonaVie, but anyone who has half a brain can see that TEAM is now paying lip service to the Fitness F in LIFE. We’re also talking gross, not net, revenues, which don’t take into account expenses and other operating costs.

Still, this is a lot of money. In fact, that’s more money than most every MLM businesses make annually. Six billion dollars is just a few billion dollars off from Amway’s annual gross revenues worldwide!

It doesn’t take a critic to see that this is not likely to happen.

Bookmark this page and return periodically to see the countdown to 2016 and to comment on TEAM’s progress (or lack thereof).

Update: Read this analysis I did on TEAM numbers, based on TEAM’s calendar of events between 2007 and 2011.

119 Comments leave one →
  1. bogart permalink
    July 31, 2011 3:39 am

    I think what Orrin meant to say was to hopefully still be making MILLIONS off of the 3-5000 people that are stupid enough to attend these MAJOR RIP-OFF CONVENTIONS.

  2. July 31, 2011 7:43 am

    Ha! A million eh?

    No, it won’t happen. Amway is established and even if there was a genuine interest in Monavie & TEAM (there isn’t) they simply do not have the infrastructure in place to deal with that sort of growth.

    It is quite literally, impossible.

    Not difficult, not lofty. It is impossible.

    Anyone who can’t see that deserves to lose their money to these wankers.

  3. switch permalink
    July 31, 2011 12:19 pm

    Did he happen to announce in Ohio how many were currently on the team and the difference they needed to get to a million?


  4. July 31, 2011 1:14 pm

    One TEAM member estimated on Twitter that there were 12,000 people at the Ohio convention. Perhaps a little too generous — 9K?

  5. Speak Your Truth permalink
    July 31, 2011 2:02 pm

    It’s always has been way too generous! Orrin knows the real numbers, but for him to be transparent as he expects others to be and be completely honest is NOT in his nature. Others would figure it out, can’t have that!

    It is Strrrrreeeecccchhhhhh it, and people ‘just believe’ whatever comes out of their mouths, unreal. And for anyone to ask for them to show the numbers would be a big RED check mark on the ole ‘loyality’ tracker.

  6. john permalink
    July 31, 2011 2:06 pm

    Going to a million is a propaganda slogan that Orrin Woodward uses to keep people excited about the future. It is a fools dream. For the last 17 or 18 years or so that Orrin has been pushing Amway, Team of destiny, Team-Quixtar, Team-Monavie and now Lie-f he has never even been close to 50,000. To accomplish this goal of a million he has an impossible task ahead of himself. Too many people are now on to his scams and deceptions. Lie-f will have a short burst but will fizzle in the end like all the rest of his schemes. But the top leaders will make a ton off the foolish people who keep doping themselves on his delusionary hype and promises. We all know the results of these majors. Peopele get all pumped up and excited and buy into dreams and false promises, they go out and buy all kinds of books, tapes, cd’s and stuff and then come home telling everyone how great the weekend was. But eventually the excitement dies down, we start to get edgy and wonder if this is a scam until we get to the next major that repeats the same upper and same binge of buying stuff and coming home all hyped up and the cycle repeats over and over until some will finally wake up and realize they have wasted years of their lives and tens of thousands of dollars on nothing. We count up our debts, calulate our losses and then kick ourselves that we have only made Orrin, Chris, Tim and company rich. Orrin’s world is so sweet for him. It is a bitter drink for the rest of us. It would be interesting if Team would tell us how many people have come and gone over the years. Maybe the day will come that they will have a million suckers pass through the Team. Now that is a goal that they will probably hit. A million people fooled and scammed. A million people lied to. A million people ripped off. A million people taken advantage of. A million people duped. A million people misled. A million people….

  7. Speak Your Truth permalink
    July 31, 2011 2:34 pm

    The ‘million people goal’ IS ORRIN’S PIPE DREAM/FANTASY, PERIOD. He contols everything right down to how much he will pay you, without taking from HIS $$ he thinks he deserves as ‘a kings pay’. YOU work for Orrin, and it doesn’t even pay like the ‘corporate’ world pays that he bashes. He could GIVE A RIP if anyone sticks, as long as the slaves keep performing, praising him like he is some god and bringing people in before they catch on to the scam; just keep churning them through the cycle of destruction!

    I agree with you all it isn’t gonna happen, there is no way; they have a lot of ‘karma,’ ‘what you give you get’, ‘what goes around, comes around’ etc..whatever you want to call it; it all means the same, they won’t get away with the destruction hanging on them or avoiding it forever.

    John is right, too many already have their #1 scam and deceptive number, that isn’t even considering the moral, and ethical banckruptcy they created for themselves, that everyone is on to and continues and or isn’t considering that the FTC, IRS, etc.. could step in at any given time and serve it’s overdue justice. 🙂

  8. Speak Your Truth permalink
    July 31, 2011 2:49 pm

    Way to go Amthrax on the countdown clock! 🙂

  9. Speak Your Truth permalink
    July 31, 2011 3:21 pm

    Heres a tweet: “People get in to get Rich, but they stay in to get Right”~ Tim Marks

    They deliver on NEITHER!

  10. john permalink
    July 31, 2011 5:31 pm

    If Tim Marks and his cohorts use the bait and switch method to hook people at best they are deceptive and are using corrupt methods to build their business. I have a word for Time Marks, “It is wicked Tim Marks to tell people they can be rich and then hope they stay in so they can be right.” How sinister and deceptive can that be? Tell the truth up front. Don’t use they bait and switch method to build this deceitful scam. If I was Tim Marks I would be embarrassed to have tweeted that comment. Please tell me this was not Mr. clean? Speak Your truth how disgusting can they get?

  11. Speak Your Truth permalink
    July 31, 2011 5:50 pm


    We know their (results) and what kind of (mis) ‘leaders’ they ‘developed’ and they are sooo far from ‘Right’. Their ‘leadership development’ is a disgrace and OBVIOUSLY is a Failure, it doesn’t create, honest, ethical, Christian leaders, quite the contrary, just check the fruit of their ACTIONS. “FRUIT CHECK!”

    I am not sure if someone else tweeted,( I didn’t pay that close attention, it is on Orrin twitter) they could have just gave the ‘credit’ to Tim, but doesn’t matter the message is the same and you are right, anything to serve the satiety of their GREEDY APPETITES!

  12. TOD permalink
    July 31, 2011 7:12 pm

    Got this off of Twitter:

    ‘The Columbus SLC Commemorative pack with all the LIFE details will be available on the shopping cart until 8-15. LIFE begins 11-1-11!’

    I thought all of the talks came out on CD of the week anyway. Maybe I could buy the pack and invite a bunch of my downline over to listen to it, charge them $10 each and send the money to the Team office.

  13. Speak Your Truth permalink
    July 31, 2011 7:18 pm

    LOL, I think you have got it figured out and YOU CAN DO IT, I believe in ya buddy! 🙂

  14. Speak Your Truth permalink
    July 31, 2011 7:59 pm

    MY all time favorite yet; is the ‘re-arranging of the titanic deck furniture,’ we here just had a laugh out load moment with that accurate statement! 🙂

  15. Dorothy permalink
    July 31, 2011 10:05 pm

    This commenter requested that her comments be removed from this site.

  16. Witty name describing curent circumstances permalink
    August 1, 2011 6:51 am

    Speak and John, the get in to get rich stay in to get right was actually said onstage, and probably then tweeted by someone in the audience.

    How LIFE is going to “work.” A person who is buying products on autoship will be called a subscriber, and those building the business and getting those cds/books will be “on system.” The LIFE program will have three separate monthly programs you can subscribe to: LIFE consisting of a book and two CDs, LLR, consisting of a book and two CDs, and AGO, consisting of a book and one CD. In addition, they will have products to fill all the 8Fs so that people can click on the F that they want to improve, and be directed to that page. If you’re on system, you will receive a book of the month, two team CDs and two SOL (standing order leadership) CDs. Sounds like MVS is going bye-bye. By the sounds of it, they are going to be trying to tweak things to still have monavie associated in the fitness F, but outside of Jeff Graham, the North American president or something, coming out and talking about the products, Monavie was pretty much not talked about (It’s about community, not product!) The fact that they are taking two categories available to people on system now (AGO, LLR) and are moving them into their product line for LIFE definitely seemed a little fishy to me. I will admit, their website was pretty cool sounding when it came to how to keep track of your downline, but that was pretty much the only nice thing. They wouldn’t even say a single word about any type of products that would be seen come 11-1-11, as they knew we “wouldn’t be able to keep it a secret” and be “promoting something that hasn’t happened yet” and blah blah blah; in my head all I heard was give me your money at the next major so YOU CAN BE THE FIRST TO HEAR ABOUT OUR “WORLD CLASS” PRODUCTS! I mean come on!

    Other fun facts: In addition to Dan and Lisa being recognized for PC, Claude and Lana were recognized for going double PC, and Tim and Amy were recognized for triple PC.

    So from now until the October major, the “biggest squeeze play of all time” is going to be run. The plan that will be shown will pretty much remain the same, but will promote what is coming out in November.

    I mentioned in an earlier comment kind of how some of the pay structure was going to work (not may area of expertise at all and it was a little over my head so don’t quote me on this next amount of info.) They said whereas other compensation plans only offered 4% off of downline product, this new plan will offer 8%. Just trying to think about what they were trying to talk about is confusing me now, so I think I’ll leave it at that. Maybe the leaders know that the average person will not understand how compensation plans work, and just promise DOUBLE of what others would pay (or at least make that claim) leading to more excitement and we all knows what happens when that group gets fired up….

    So that’s my blurb about the major, let me know if you have questions, I’ll try to get them answered.

    Moving on, I just want to thank you all for helping me open my eyes just a little bit. Being younger and more naïve about what really goes on in the world, I probably would have gone into extreme debt had I not started to see the light. Funny how I was listening to a Claude and Lana Hamilton CD at work one day, and thought “I should google search for pictures of these guys that would be fun,” and lo and behold, I found this website. After reading pretty much every article I could find, I was shocked to read that some leaders aren’t even in Orrin’s downline. I, along with probably the majority of people still on Team, assumed that Claude and Lana were downline of Orrin. That was the first among many red flags that went up as I continued to absorb the info on this site.

    What’s crazy is that even trying to see things from a more critical stand, I caught myself again starting to buy-in to what was being said on stage this weekend. It just blows my mind that these “leaders” can so flawlessly lie with smiles and excitement…..I guess I’m still trying to find the good in people because that’s what I’ve been taught to do my whole life. But, alas, that was probably my downfall in joining up and buying what Team was selling me.

    So very soon I will be leaving Team for good. You’d think that would be easy, but even now, reading what I’ve read, it’s a struggle. But it has to be done.

    It’s weird though, because even though I feel like I’ve been duped, I still almost feel thankful for some of what I’ve learned through Team. Maybe that’s the system that’s still somewhat floating around in my brain, or maybe my eternal optimistic attitude, but I’m glad I know have an appreciation for reading, a desire to actually fight for the dreams I had before that Team brainwashed me into thinking would lead me to living a miserable life (I mean let’s be honest, dreaming about being a doctor is absolutely ABSURD! Why would I ever trade time for money in my own S business when I could hand over half my life savings to Orrin and the PC in hopes of being “retired” in 2-5 years!) And most importantly, I have decided to try and start to find God in my life (although I will be doing my best to make sure the ideas about God and Jesus from Team are replaced with teachings from people without ulterior motives.

    So, sorry for the long post, just thought I’d share and get a few things off my chest. Thanks!

  17. TOD permalink
    August 1, 2011 7:43 am

    No one said that there isn’t some good information in their training system, it is just completely overpriced.

  18. I Quit ( and glad I Did) permalink
    August 1, 2011 7:59 am

    Witty- Don’t feel bad about appreciating some of the things you’ve learned. Thats a GOOD thing. Learning is how to avoid making the same mistake in the future. Use what you’ve learned to better yourself and your life. It sounds like you’ll be doing just that by pursuing a relationship with Christ. EXCELLENT decision. This may sound Teamish but I’m proud of you for critically thinking your way out of this mess. It will serve you well in all areas of your life in the future!!! Way to go!!

  19. free at last permalink
    August 1, 2011 8:08 am

    I’m not sure where to post this but, I know of a leader who recently quit and took most of their team with them. They all went off system and returned their major tickets, which you can do as long as its before the event. Now get this they made the top 10 for cd counts. Haha shows you just how much the team is growing.

  20. Questioner permalink
    August 1, 2011 10:19 am

    I have a question…I’ve seen a few other comment threads where people talk about Pastor Dickie leaving. Does anyone know for sure why he left? I was told it was because of health problems and not wanting to travel any more. Plus, the team leaders thought that if they did the sunday sermon, more people would come to hear it. Not saying that’s the truth, I’m just wondering if you know for sure why he left. Also, I checked his church website and there are still team leaders listed as deacons and elders, which doesn’t make a lot of sense. I’m honestly trying to figure out the truth, not being difficult.

  21. Speak Your Truth permalink
    August 1, 2011 10:48 am

    free at last~ Thanks for your comments and coming! Congradulate those leaders for having the integrity from us all! Let them know we welcome their experiences and would love to hear from them! Hope you keep sharing. 🙂

  22. Speak Your Truth permalink
    August 1, 2011 11:08 am


    Thanks go inquiring, shows you are seeking the real truth! But don’t the Team ‘preach’ go to the source? We have heard that standard answer given about Pastor also and will say I have spoken to Pastor personally but it was a private conversation more about us than him, so I don’t feel at liberty to speak of it. I will say I believe you are being lied to. If you are sincere give him a call, it is best you seek the truth from him. You and I know Pastor is a man of God.

    Here is a comment from Samantha that might give you an inclination:

    “Orrin personally told me that he had to fire Bobbie Dickie (Pastor Dickie’s son) after three or four warnings for recklessly spending Team money and paying employees way too much. When I casually mentioned that to Pastor Dickie almost a year later, he explained that Bobbie had NOT been fired but had quit because he could not continue to work in an environment that was so corrupt. Pastor would NOT elaborate or give details, but suffice to say that he was very saddened that Orrin was slandering his son, especially when his son knew enough to bury Orrin.”

    You say: “Plus, the team leaders thought that if they did the sunday sermon, more people would come to hear it.”

    That statement is an absolute absurdity, and would have been a loud blasted siren, and alarm for me. I am not picking on you and does not surprise me you were told this, it just does not make any sense, a qualified, Pastor who has spoke for years, and numerous people stayed in because of him, and was Orrin’s mentor?

    More importantly, are they building a ‘business’ to draw numbers so they can say they ‘get more people there on Sunday because of them?’ WOW

  23. Questioner permalink
    August 1, 2011 11:18 am

    SYT – Thanks for responding. I would love to contact Pastor Dickie directly, but am not sure how to go about it. He has no idea who I am. Would I just contact him through his church?

    As for the Sunday sermon portion, I hate to say it, but I can kind of see where they’re coming from. I would rather a qualified Pastor preach, but for non-Christians, people who would normally sleep in on Sunday then just show up for the meeting, they might be more inclined to come if it was one of the “famous” leaders, right?

  24. switch permalink
    August 1, 2011 11:35 am

    If Dickie left on health related problems, he would’ve made that very clear.

    His latest post on his blog last week, pretty much tells it all.

    He had his reasons and they know it.

  25. August 1, 2011 11:40 am

    @free at last – yes, make the leader aware of this site and invite them to come with their stories. Did they leave to go to another MLM or are they quitting TEAM/MonaVie for good?

  26. August 1, 2011 12:03 pm

    Questioner, I can promise you that you are being lied to about Pastor Dickie. I wll not go into detail of our conversations but I can promise you it was a moral issue not a traveling or health issue. As for the deacons and elders at the church the only active team member that is in leadership at berean is Mark Paul. Matt Abraham and Don Freeze are both out.

  27. Speak Your Truth permalink
    August 1, 2011 12:04 pm

    Questioner~ I still disagree with the logic people would sleep in and would rather see the (fake non-qualified) famous leaders, it has always been a non-denominational sunday service, but that is beside the point of what you are really seeking.

    Just to clear one other thing up, there is only one active Elder in the church, and that would be Mark Paul. If you are referring to Don F. and Matt A. they have left Team. I cannot make your decisions, but if I were you, you could call one of the elders one you know, someone not on the team because you already know the answer they have given you and maybe they could give you some advice.

    My question to you is; What is it you want to gain by knowing what you question, is this going to change anything for you?

  28. john permalink
    August 1, 2011 12:05 pm

    Questioner, what is the reason you want to know why Pastor Dickie left? Does his departure disturb you? If Samantha is correct I would guess her comments have something to do with it. The truth you need to face Questioner is that this business model is broken and many people are being hurt by it. The turn over rate is very high. The leaders know they will make a ton of money off the new suckers and will bleed them for all they can get until they wake up a drop off. Then a new bunch of misled, misguided, innocent people join the list of those getting conned. This is a terrible business. All of us on this blog have our stories of how we believed, worked, sacrificed and only in the end woke up to realize that we had been lied to, deceived, and taken advantage of. The best description of Orrin and his con-men is Ali Babba and his forty thieves. This is a nest of thieves. They will answer to God one day for what they are doing. If you have any conscience, if you have any decency, if you have any hesitations get the heck out of there as fast as you can. The longer you associate with these people the worse it will be for you in the end. The fact that you posted on this site is a good sign that maybe you have some serious concerns. It’s not just that Pastor Dickie left but look at how many of the top leaders have also quit as well. Many have woken up to the truth and have left Team. We write on here with the hope that we can reach a few who might be spared the heart ace and bitterness of losing their money and maybe their integrity and reputation. Listen to these people because they know what they are talking about. I hope you decide to unplug from Team.

  29. Speak Your Truth permalink
    August 1, 2011 12:05 pm

    Thanks team deception~ I didn’t see you had already commented. 🙂

  30. Speak Your Truth permalink
    August 1, 2011 12:13 pm

    john~ funny you asked the same thing, thanks for your tremendous support.

  31. Questioner permalink
    August 1, 2011 12:14 pm

    Thanks all, for the responses. The reason I asked was I was curious if people had spoken to Pastor Dickie directly, or if it was all assumption. It sounds like a few of you have, and I’m sure you can respect my desire to speak to someone directly rather than trust what I read on a blog (or hear from stage). I would love to contact Pastor or Matt Abraham or Don Freeze as you mention, but I don’t personally know any of them. If they haven’t come out publicly and said that they left Team, why would they speak to me, who they don’t even know? I’m just not sure where to go to get firsthand information.

  32. Speak Your Truth permalink
    August 1, 2011 12:17 pm

    AMTHRAX~ What is the Lobotomized for the Dream all about? There is no comment on here? I am not going to click the link, can you let us know. 🙂

  33. Speak Your Truth permalink
    August 1, 2011 12:29 pm

    Call the church and ask to speak to someone. I still don’t understand the ‘curiosity’, this business has done some serious damage to people’s lives and am not sure you understand that magnitude. I hope you are not just curious, but if that is the case, then I wouldn’t even bother, and just choose who you want to believe. I respect that you would want to know the truth, but if it changes nothing then what would be the point, it would only be to serve your curiosity?

  34. Questioner permalink
    August 1, 2011 12:36 pm

    SYT – I think I will call the church. Good suggestion. And the curiosity? I want the truth. I don’t want someone’s version of the truth, I don’t want to take an anonymous person’s word for it – I want to talk to someone who left and find out why. And I didn’t say it would change nothing. It could change everything, but I won’t know until I find out exactly what the truth is and if I’ve been lied to.

  35. Speak Your Truth permalink
    August 1, 2011 12:46 pm

    I can respect that, and I understand exactly what you are saying but from our standpoint it is obvious why we are anonymous and doesn’t change a thing of the truth and experiences we have had. That is the #1 defense and how they try and discredit, I am not getting that from you, but you know as well as we do, that is what their stance. If we hadn’t experienced directly what we have I would feel the same way you do and would call Pastor myself.

    I am not trying to offend you, just want you to understand this causes tremendous stress for some people, and hope you wouldn’t take that lightly. Thanks for responding and good luck.

  36. August 1, 2011 1:10 pm

    Lobotomized is a new blog from a former Amway/Quixtar IBO. Tone of posts is similar to Married to an Ambot by Anna Banana. This is the first time I’ve seen the blog, so I don’t have any more information.

  37. Speak Your Truth permalink
    August 1, 2011 1:14 pm

    Thanks Amthrax, just thought it might be some our old ‘friends’ wanting us to join their party, LOL

  38. August 1, 2011 2:16 pm

    @Witty – I’ll be using your comment above as the comment of the day later this week.

  39. No Team For Me permalink
    August 1, 2011 4:05 pm

    Witty – great post! Did you by any chance get any pictures of the tool room this weekend?

    Questioner – I applaud you for asking questions. Keep digging. You will be amazed at what you find. An interesting point to note is some of the key people who dealt directly with Orrin who are no longer around:

    Pastor Dickie – His pastor and mentor

    Don Freeze – His former boss and one of his biggest leaders when he was in Quixtar

    Jeff & Barb Granger – One of Orrin’s early leaders with the old business

    Randy & Valerie Haugen – People who had total inside knowledge of what was going on.

    Billy Florence – One of the most respected leaders in the country in the old Quixtar business

    I could go on and on. But these are not just disgruntled people. These are people who knew Orrin about as intimately as anyone and they are all gone. Why would this many close friends and leaders leave????

  40. Samantha permalink
    August 1, 2011 4:14 pm

    For those of you who think Orrin is going to fail anytime soon, don’t bet the farm. Orrin is very intelligent, VERY driven, and very motivated to prove critics wrong. Also, he has spent the better part of the past 18 years studying human nature and how to manipulate (motivate?) people. I’ve been out of the Team loop for a bit, so I don’t have any insider info on this new LIFE business. But trust me when I tell you, Orrin would never publicly state of goal of a million people within five years if he wasn’t pretty confident he would get there.

    The question that remains to be answered is what exactly the million people will be doing? The original goal from way back in 2000-2001 was a million people at monthly seminars. I think that was pared down to a million people on system, then lower to maybe a million people registered on the Team website.

    Guess we will just have to wait and see.

  41. August 1, 2011 4:39 pm

    I have a funny feeling that Orrin is more interested in having more iBOs then he is in the growing sales.

  42. Crystal permalink
    August 1, 2011 4:46 pm

    I think the way they are going to ‘try’ to hit a million is by becoming the “system” for all other MLM’s. I think this is the ONLY way they can achieve this goal in a 5 year spand. Steel ALL THE OTHER MEMBERS FROM OTHER MLM’S, Just like they’re use to doing.

    The ONLY reason Claude Hamilton and Tim Marks went double and triple Policy Council is the groups of people they convinced to leave other organizations and join TEAM. They never BUILT these additional 3-6 outside legs (hence, a double policy council is similar to a Double Diamond in Amway – 9 legs… achieving 100 or 50 tickets at seminar or based on system counts) they had their original 6 legs, merged them into the binary, but still had them structured on the tool side as 6+ separate legs to MAXIMIZE their tool income.

    Do you think ANY team member can do the same? NO. Why? Because Claude, Tim and Orrin WOULD NEVER ALLOW THEM TO. That is why 99% of TEAM members will NEVER EVER see the kind of money that the few known leaders at the top will experience… but the average members will be SOLD on their lifestyle, houses,cars and the chance at freedom, in return they will go in DEBT trying to pursue it. NOT realizing that these Top leaders have been in the game for 15+ YEARS (EVERY ONE OF THEM) working towards achieving this current financial position.

    The mentality of the top leaders is this…
    “Anyone can achieve what I’ve achieved if they are willing to work hard enough.” – This is true in theory, but on the other side of this equation, this is why ten’s of thousands of people got involved, gone into debt – some -over 100K – despite what Team Leaders believe, and the Top leaders don’t look at the people they are hurting because they turn the finger back at them and say… it’s your fault you didn’t achieve it, the same opportunity available to me was sitting on the table for you. NOT TRUE. It’s not the same opportunity for the new guy… this is NOT TRUE. The new guy doesn’t realize that it will take 20 years to get to the same level working this “opportunity” 7 days/week without steeling another group.

    PS: I heard directly from a policy council member that Pastor Dickie was KICKED out of the business because his ‘PHILOSOPHY’ is TOO EXTREME and doesn’t relate to the 1 MILLION new people Team is planning on bringing on board. This is the reasoning that is being spread to ALL the second tier leaders on TEAM. This is how they justify to the followers the REASON why Pastor Dickie left. Its discusting. Its the SAME slandering that happens to EVERY SINGLE LEADER WHO REALIZED THIS ***REALLY*** IS A SCAM. They have to continue the brain washing and keep the TEAM together… and I laugh at those people that simply accept everything as truth… the policy coucil act as their puppet master!!!

    Thank GOD my husband and I left.

  43. Speak Your Truth permalink
    August 1, 2011 5:01 pm


    Agreed, most of us know how driven he is to try and ‘prove’ the critics wrong, this site adds fuel to his vendictive ways without a doubt and we know what lengths he has gone to try and silence the critics, with all his lawsuits and ANONYMOUS smear campaign, and the blog sites he hid behind. Funny, how so many come on here, bashing and calling names because of people being anonymous, when Orrin himself, did EXACTLY that but some how that is different.

    He HATES to lose, but eventually the time comes when what you have given, and done, will come back around, how that will plays, none of us know, only God knows, I put my trust there. Where ever it goes it will not be because Orrin controlled it, he is not the creator of anything but destruction that is shown up in so many lives, in my opinion.

  44. Speak Your Truth permalink
    August 1, 2011 6:13 pm

    Crystal~ Thanks for sharing. You nailed it with the ‘inherited groups’, there is in no way shape or form, that is DUPLICATEABLE. But they will loose their voices trying to convince others they have a ‘proven DUPLICATABLE buisness. Flat out lie, and that is only one example, where will others get their freebies?

    Thanks for sharing this for others to who will seek the truth, just how twisted:

    ” I heard directly from a policy council member that Pastor Dickie was KICKED out of the business because his ‘PHILOSOPHY’ is TOO EXTREME and doesn’t relate to the 1 MILLION new people Team is planning on bringing on board. ”


    They USED and PROMOTED Pastor Dickie’s credibility for YEARS, so many people bought in and stayed in because of him, Orrin gave him credit for SAVING his marriage, that was about to end because Laure saw the GREED back then! Some might remember when she told how she threw the money in the front yard and left him! Some might be under the opinion, if you can beat them, join them, who knows something changed!

    Alls I can say is, when the time comes for them to get what they got coming, and IT IS A GIVEN, when it comes back around 100 fold, like a hurricane to humble them for all the destruction, lies, slander, deception, immoral, illegal, and unethical things they have done.


  45. August 1, 2011 6:14 pm

    @Crystal wrote:

    I think the way they are going to ‘try’ to hit a million is by becoming the “system” for all other MLM’s.

    In a previous post, I wrote how TEAM materials will be used to teach international MonaVie distributors. There’s really nothing in the System materials that couldn’t be adapted to other MLMs.

    My opinion is that MLMs should be wary of using outside materials or support systems to teach and train their distributors. Piss off the System leader, and he’ll take his tools… and downline… to some other company.

  46. john permalink
    August 1, 2011 6:36 pm

    Crystal, which policy council member told you that Pastor Dickie got kicked out because of his views being too extreme? Is that an accurate statement or just hearsay from someone else? From what I have heard I doubt that is true. But I too would love to see it publicly stated here or somewhere concerning the truth as to why he left Team and Orrin. Bet the truth would be a far cry from what the Team robots are being told. I wonder what is being said about all the other leaders who have moved on or become vocal about the Team scam. I would love to hear what Don Freeze and Mike Foos have to say.

  47. Speak Your Truth permalink
    August 1, 2011 7:02 pm

    Good luck to them trying to get ALL other MLM’s they too have their pyramid, money sucking ‘motivational’ seminars. And with the reputation Orrin has, I would be extemely surprised anyone would buy in, but then again Orrin won’t be selling it that is for everyone else.
    BTW~ Anyone know if Orrin, Chris or George, got recognized for TRIPLE PC? Or aren’t they growing.

  48. No Team For Me permalink
    August 1, 2011 8:18 pm

    Crystal – Nail on the head. Orrin has been positioning him for exactly that. He has been reaching out and developing friendships with leaders in many other mlm’s and with his articles in ‘Networking Times’ has everything lined up to do exactly what you spoke of. Thus the reason for all the recent CD’s which discuss the ‘community building industry’ without mentioning any specific company by name.

  49. Dorothy permalink
    August 1, 2011 9:05 pm

    This commenter requested that her comments be removed from this site.

  50. Samantha permalink
    August 3, 2011 5:51 am

    The fact that Matt Abraham and Don Freeze, both personally sponsored by Orrin, are no longer with Team should say a lot about what is going on at the top. Both are still very close to Pastor Dickie–as a former round table member, I know how much Orrin encouraged all the round table members to develop a relationship with Pastor. Orrin would pay to have Pastor attend all the Fun in the Sun trips and every weekend event. Now Pastor won’t even take Orrin’s calls. Hhmmm.

  51. I'm a Lifer permalink
    August 3, 2011 6:04 am

    Samantha, You know Pastor Dickie personally and you know that he isn’t taking Orrin’s calls?? Have you actually seen instance where Orrin called Pastor Dickie and he ignored the phone call??

  52. TOD permalink
    August 3, 2011 6:43 am

    If you want to know about Pastor Dickie, then call him. You all call us cowards, so why don’t you man up and call him yourself. Berean Baptist Church is up in Grand Blanc, Michigan. I believe that you know the truth and do not want to hear it.

  53. I'm a Lifer permalink
    August 3, 2011 6:54 am

    I have Pastor Dickie on my facebook. I’ve asked him directly. He doesn’t answer my messeages…

  54. switch permalink
    August 3, 2011 7:08 am

    Go figure.

  55. Speak Your Truth permalink
    August 3, 2011 7:17 am

    Lifer~ Are you seriously back? Are you a glutten, what does it feel like to expend ALL that energy trying to stay in denial? That must be diffi’cult’ and very tiring for you?

    Haven’t you heard the truth will set you free? I understand you just came out of the ‘kool-aide’ festival and are full of the liquid courage but geez, practice what you preach and go to the source, snap out of your denial!

    Btw~ Your ‘team buddies’ call you a nameless, faceless, coward, (repeating exactly what Orrin says) when you come on here with out your real name. That’s your buddies for ya, you all stick together! 🙂

  56. Speak Your Truth permalink
    August 3, 2011 12:38 pm

    Lifer~ Get a clue, you don’t use FB to ask some serious questions about a cult ( my answer has nothing to do with Pastor Dickie)? Felt like I should explain that to lifer. LHOL

    If you act like you do on here; when asking some serious questions of a Pastor, about a cult/scam that has ruined thousands of lives, then that might be your second clue why you wouldn’t get an answer.THINK lifer, THINK.

    I see you didn’t take the advice of your friend that you gave a standing ovation to on here (after you got your butt kicked all over this site), this was of course before he called Don F. and found out for HIMSELF the truth, or did you decide he wasn’t your friend anymore when he came back and admitted it was true? How do you feel about your teamate now that had enough guts to go to the source and then humble himself to come back to say it was true?

    We gave him a standing ovation for that, wouldn’t you? That would serve you well to learn from him, after all you thought he was great right before that. LHOL 🙂

  57. Speak Your Truth permalink
    August 3, 2011 12:40 pm

    BTW~ LIFER You are grabbing at straws with your question to Samantha! LHOL

  58. I Quit ( and glad I Did) permalink
    August 3, 2011 12:45 pm

    Lifer may not be back. He’s busy living intentionally for excellence. Puke.

  59. john permalink
    August 3, 2011 2:37 pm

    Contacting people on Face Book is not the best way to get information. But if Pastor Dickie is not answering Lifer’s questions on FB maybe no answer is really a powerful answer! Maybe Lifer should consider that Pastor Dickie’s silence may be a sign of his contempt for anything associated with the Team. I have said it before, the exodus of so many top leaders over the years from Team is sending a strong message that there must be many who have strong objections to the leadership of of this business. Where there is smoke there is probably going to be fire. This is a free country. Anyone can join Team Lie-f if they want. If people find it to be helpful great for them. But the truth is all of us here on this site have all had similar experiences. We have all been burned and betrayed, or hurt terribly by the so-called leaders of integrity that lead this group. We all feel that this is not a good business. we all feel that this is a corrupt organization that is misleading the new people. We are done with this lie. We want to move on and find healing and closure to the years of pain we have experienced. If posting on this site helps some of us then great. But the bottom line is this, we cannot be silent in the presence of such corruption, deception, and misrepresentation. We all hope our comments might help set others free from the delusions of the leaders of this giant scam.

  60. Speak Your Truth permalink
    August 3, 2011 3:02 pm

    KABOOM! 🙂

  61. I'm a Lifer permalink
    August 3, 2011 3:48 pm

    I suppose you are going to tell me you don’t like Art Jonak either. I love Art…he is the man. Art highly respects Orrin and the Team 🙂

  62. Steve (Peachy) permalink
    August 3, 2011 4:17 pm


    So do you, highly respect Orrin and Team. So flippin what? What does Art Jonak have to do with anything? Oh and to quote you, “You know Art Jonak personally, and you know he highly respects Orrin and Team? Have you seen instances where Art coddled up to Orrin and whispered in his ear i highly respect you and Team?” Give me a flippin break.

  63. Speak Your Truth permalink
    August 3, 2011 4:39 pm

    Oh lets see, you think Orrin did have a specific PR agenda, for sucking up to Art, just like he did to Randy, Billy, Chuck, Lance, etc, etc…. you really are proving you aren’t the brightest light in the room. Good one lifer. LHOL

  64. One time Fly that sat at the Team Conference Table permalink
    August 3, 2011 5:03 pm

    LIfer – since you have such a wide personal knowledge of Orrin. Tell me, how does he feel about John Maxwell?

  65. I Quit ( and glad I Did) permalink
    August 4, 2011 4:54 am

    Crickets chirping….

  66. Steve (Peachy) permalink
    August 5, 2011 1:26 pm

    Where oh where did our dear Lifer go, oh where oh where could he be? I know, he has contacted Orrin on his fb page and is patiently waiting for a response on what to say next.

  67. free at last permalink
    August 6, 2011 7:41 am

    Amthrax, the leaders know of this site, I will encourage them to share some of their stories.

    Lifer, Pastor shared with my husband & myself why he left team, but we went to him personally. He was a little cautious, as you can imagine having been hurt by people who you thought were friends.
    I had been done with team for over a year, but my husband wasn’t sure. He talked to a few people directly, who had left team. All I can say is, their side of the story was way fifteenth different from our uplines version. I prayed every day that my husband would see the light. GOD is good!

    [Editor’s Note: Fixed incorrect word]

  68. Crystal permalink
    August 8, 2011 9:21 am

    Similar but different…

    Pastor Dickie = “All Grace”

    Laurie Woodward = “All Grace Outreach”


  69. Samantha permalink
    August 8, 2011 10:14 am


    Interesting, yes. Revealing . . . not really. This is an example of how the Woodwards and Team are using God and Christianity to further their own ends. We are all supposed to think that they are all wonderful, godly people, and certainly worthy of following.

    If Laurie Woodward had not blatantly lied to me outright, slandered her former pastor, and called an egregious crime committed by one of her closest friends a “minor incident,” I might even believe this garbage. But alas, when you put lipstick on a pig, you still have a pig.

  70. Crystal permalink
    August 8, 2011 6:18 pm


    “called an egregious crime committed by one of her closest friends a “minor incident,”…

    What happened?

  71. August 8, 2011 6:34 pm

    @Crystal – This is something that we decided not to talk about in this forum since it involved the police and minors. I’ll leave it at that.

  72. John permalink
    August 8, 2011 8:11 pm

    Samantha is right on target when she says that the Team leaders use God talk and Christian morality to keep people hooked into their game. The leaders of Team know that this works. So they bang that drum alot. It does seem out of place however when they use that “Our business is sexy” nonsense. How does promoting the sexy aspect of their business fit in with their “We are the moral compass of the nation so join with us to save the country?” These people will use anything to keep their loyal but deluded followers buying stuff so they can keep their pay checks coming.

  73. August 9, 2011 1:45 pm

    Samantha says “If Laurie Woodward had not blatantly lied to me outright, slandered her former pastor, and called an egregious crime committed by one of her closest friends a “minor incident,” I might even believe this garbage. But alas, when you put lipstick on a pig, you still have a pig.”

    i’ve gotta say Samantha you hit the nail on the head. Lying is what the woodwards do…. It’s their business.

    I know what you say is truth and I want to thank you for your courage. I wrote these on juicescam Nov 4th 2010 –

    “I go to the church that Orrin attended for years. At first he came in and genuinely looked to have a desire to know Jesus. That quickly turned into an obvious mad grab for his business. A large portion of our church fell for his scam and it has done immeasurable damage that could take decades to repair. I am convinced now more than ever that he goes to church to have 300-500 people twice a week to share his scam with using religion as a way in to spread his own gospel. He has since left our church and is starting the same sacrilegious “work” in Florida. I pray that the church in Florida does not fall for his scheme!! It will take my church years to recover from him and his tricks of tools and love of money that he swept into our church.”

    “Orrin has screwed the majority of our church over with his get rich scheme, your not alone. Most of the church people that got involved are finally realizing that they are spending thousands of dollars in tapes, CD’s, pep rally’s, and books and are getting nothing but a garage full of juice. Thankfully we are getting close to being able to go to church again and worship without getting cornered by the extra aggressive scam pushers trying to force us into their pyramid to improve there lives. Things appear to be getting better now that Orrin has saturated this market and has moved on to a new area to infect his scheme on. One of the benefits to people blindly following Orrin is that once he left the area a lot of the leaders left (or are leaving) and soon to follow will be the bottom of the pyramid workers that are just at church to make money and then we will have our church back.”

    The woodwards are masters of deception and how they can sleep at night with how they have treated Pastor Dickie and the rest of the church is amazing to me. Narcisims gets its definition from Orrin Woodward. I hate to say this but you might have thought that the woodwards were your friend but they never were. That’s how they work with everyone. How do you slander a pastor?

    I know about whom you are refering to with the egregious crime and I will not comment on it per Amthrax’s request but I will say that the way that Orrin and Co are handling it is appauling. Someday it will all come out and the protection that is surrounding this situation will go away when Orrin decides that he is hurting his business more than he is helping it he will be thrown to the streets. Orrin does and Orrin pleases. He is not taking the moral high ground, he has no morals, instead he doing whats best for him and his pocket. What a douche.

    Samantha, I just wanted to let you know that you are not alone in this and that I know what you are saying is the truth and I want to thank you for your courage and congratulate you on seeing the truth.

  74. free at last permalink
    August 9, 2011 3:28 pm

    This is what we were told by our uplines about some of the people that left team.

    Randy & Val Haugen(sp) & Mark & Tami Crawford: They were greedy and wanted more from team profit sharing. also Mark told orrin to give up the million team dream.

    Billy & Peggy Florence: Sold out to Quixtar for $30,000.

    Pastor left to spend more time with family.

    Of course they talked about anybody that left, but that’s all I can think of right now.

    Our uplines are diamonds or they qualified at one point, they were the biggest gossips I have ever met. We never told them anything personal about our lives for that reason.

  75. Samantha permalink
    August 9, 2011 6:02 pm

    Orrin personally told me that Haugens and Crawfords left because they wanted to be recognized for levels they had not achieved. Also they were trouble-makers for the Team office staff. He said having them gone was no loss, because they had at most 500 people show up at seminars.

    The truth? They left because they thought Orrin was gouging people with system costs. They believed you could make enough with MonaVie that you didn’t need the excessive system costs: pay for the Team website subscription, four CDs per week, two books per month, 12 seminars per year PLUS four majors, branded emails, not counting the changes to the packs, all the added packs, blah, blah, blah. Besides, they had substantial numbers at seminars; we spoke for them several times, and they had 1000 people at just one seminar location.

    Orrin told me that Billy Florence left because he was mad that Orrin wouldn’t continue to fund a losing investment they had made together. Orrin also said that Billy changed when his father died. “Something happened to him; he’s just not the same.”

    The truth? Again, Billy thought Orrin’s system costs were gouging people.

    Orrin told me that Pastor left after Orrin got mad at him for sharing information Orrin told him in confidence. Orrin said that Pastor refused to apologize and claimed he had done nothing wrong. Consequently, Orrin couldn’t trust him anymore.

    The truth? Pastor pled with Orrin and the Policy Council to do what they had always promised and fix their system so more people could make money. (Remember, Orrin sold Team as the solution to the long-standing problem in MLM’s that 99% of the people never make any money, and of those who do, most don’t make very much. Guess what? Team is no different than any other MLM.) After realizing that Orrin really had no interest in offering a FAIR business model as long as he himself was making his millions, Pastor decided he could no longer be a part of Team. And the suggestion that Pastor is a gossip? Puh-leeze. That’s so ridiculous it’s not even funny.

    Corrupt, lying, nasty folks.

  76. Speak Your Truth permalink
    August 9, 2011 6:49 pm

    I often wondered if Laurie knew the whole story and what Orrin was doing; lying, backstabbing, stealing our profit-sharing, breaking the law, and all the other unethical, immoral, and illegal shenanigans they pulled or if she wanted to remain ignorant as long as her bank account was being padded. I remember a time we were with them and Laurie told me she had 100,000 in her personal bank account. I knew then the money was becoming more important than anything else.

    From then on I started seeing a change, she began to act like Orrin, expected people to ‘call her’, the arrogance, and greed started to take over, wouldn’t intitiate a hello, you had to etc..
    One time we were backstage and stopped to talk with someone before we went to Orrin and he was p*ssed, he went over and sat down, crossed his arms, legs and eye-brows LOL, acted like a 2 year old that wasn’t getting attention. His body language said it all. What a narcissist with a severe ego problem. He demands attention, and expects to be treated like a king, I wasn’t willing to treat him like that, he discusted me.

    Where I come from true friends work the phone line both ways, it isn’t even questioned and pretty sure the rest of the world outside of the MLM cult/scam does the same, I never saw that before the Team nor since we left.

    You don’t need to EARN your way to each other (firends) houses either, that one has always discusted me, and never treated our leaders in such an arrogant way.

    It is too bad what greed will do, saw it in Orrin & Laurie and how people will sell out on their conscience, bend everything, lie, deceive, cheat, steal, to hang on to their money. I say good luck you can’t take it with you, and when you time is up you will answer for what you did.

    What a bunch of greedy, phoney, liars and hypocrites and thank God, we no longer have to associate with them. Our lives are much more blessed now!

    We heard all the lies too, and many lies we heard about why we left! They kept changing the story as time went on. They were all Pathetic lies.

  77. John permalink
    August 9, 2011 7:14 pm

    There has been a lot of focus on Orrin Woodward and rightfully so. He should be held accountable for all the shameful, dishonest, deceitful, and manipulative practices of his underlings. But don’t forget the three stooges, Chris Brady, Tim Marks, and George Guzzardo. They know as well that they are involved in a business that is ripping people off. They justifiy it by the so called good that may come from being associated with Team. They are all responsible. When the time for comes for the good judge to make all things right they will all face the music together. The games up folks. These guys should know this.

  78. Speak Your Truth permalink
    August 9, 2011 9:19 pm

    I couldn’t agree more, ALL the PC know and have went along with and carried out the corruption, made the decisions for everyone’s business, put all others and their business’ in jeopardy with the unlawful things they have done, unknowing to most, and are just as responsible. Asked, and organized, other leaders and were involved in doing unlawful deeds.

    I know our PC has carried out O orders, and had some of his own corrupt strategic games, backstabbed us, de-edify us to our groups, including taking our PF income along with Orrin, destruction, lies, and dictated all of the destruction in the registration of our groups. They are as Greedy as Orrin & Laurie and that was evident in the last phone call that we ever spoke to them. They abused and betrayed our groups and friendship to the same degree.

    They all too; will reap what they have sown.

  79. August 10, 2011 12:55 am

    This is similar to what Legacy members themselves wrote in the comments section on this post: Leaving TEAM and Orrin Woodward. Maybe you can identify the Legacy members who left the comments?

  80. Speak Your Truth permalink
    August 10, 2011 7:23 am


    I remembered reading Clear the Air’s comments and thought the same thing when Samantha mentioned the Legacy group. Didn’t get to know them, and wasn’t around them like all the other original Team leaders.

    We heard Billy F. was busy with his other business’, he was one of the first Big leaders (outside) leaders to leave. All the lies we heard about why people left, were just that lies and we knew it. They did the exact same thing to us and the leaders on our team and we experienced first hand the destruction and lies they spread about all of us.
    They bold-faced lied to people because they knew if people would find out the TRUTH they would lose a lot more and that meant less MONEY so they became very wicked in their ways. One thing they didn’t take in to consideration was they didn’t know who the ones were that were telling us what they were saying!

    So many incidents and lies, telling people they would be ‘implicated’ if they talked to certain leaders that left. Told leaders we were raiding our downline, trying to get those leaders ‘stirred up’ and against us, another LIE, NOPE. Knowing what we know now we would NEVER, EVER get in another MLM they are all the same, MONEY for the Top and the rest lose. Control, Control, Control. That is the MO of cults and what cult leaders do, Control Everything in your life!

    We value living in a free country, and meant it when we wanted to help others. Once you know the truth, and still stay and continue; KNOWINAG you are deliberately hurting others, and following leaders corrupt to the core!
    They WILL pay a hefty price and reap what they have sown!

  81. MWRascal permalink
    August 18, 2011 1:30 pm

    Look at what I fond….another website where I can get “special” information from a very interesting community who have set out to share some ridiculous information, from the opinions of a few….Pastor Dickie did this, Matt Abraham did that, this person did that. I’m sure all of you are either relatives or buddies with all the TEAM leaders thus you know each one of them so well that you can share all these facts.
    I guess, if people can’t man up to have tough skin, the next thing to do is to criticize everyone who is doing something. Who cares if it is TEAM, Amway, Monavie, Avon, Mary-Kay, etc… who cares? At least these people have dreams and guts.
    Man, who are you people? Anyway, keep it coming, one day I can use all these “special” posts by people like you for a book.
    Who cares if Orrin gets to 1 Million or not in 5 years, when was the last time you put your character on the line with a goal like that.
    What’s your goal in the next 5 years? Let me guess, be 5 years older and watch the latest blockbusters….
    Maybe he will get TEAM to 1 Million, maybe he won’t… who cares?
    Go back and read some books….

  82. August 18, 2011 1:37 pm

    @MWRascal – You didn’t “find” another website, you found another post on the same blog.

    We aren’t criticizing having dreams and goals; we are criticizing those who take advantage of other people’s dreams and goals for their own greedy purposes.

    It’s clear from your comments that you have no interest in answering our questions with anything but attacks. If you persist, I will begin moderating your comments. You’ll just have to write your book on your own then.

  83. Speak Your Truth permalink
    August 18, 2011 5:11 pm

    Amthrax~ That deserves a high five! 🙂

    little Rascal~

    Just for your information, I am NOT giving you permission to steal my story and make $$$$$ from it!

  84. Barb permalink
    August 19, 2011 7:24 am


    “Man, who are you people?”… I’ll answer that question.

    We are the leaders you watched on stage for years and years. We sold YOU on joining TEAM, and kept YOU in. Triple 100’s with thousands of people on our Teams… can you say the same?

    We’ve washed the scales off our eyes and realized those “Leaders” that claimed they were our loyal friends, loyal servants worth following to discover I’m surrounded by nothing more than con-artists milking the middle class squeezing the “DREAM” which allures, excites, and seduces newbies into the TEAM. Dexter realized the ‘Dream’ is the GLUE, it holds the whole pyramid together.

    How DARE YOU ASS*UME we have ‘no Dreams’ and insult us with comments about watching ‘blockbusters’ over the next 5 years!! My profession and financial status speaks for itself within the top 5% of income earners in the country. If you only knew the truth. If you only knew how much we know… I’ve been around this organization for OVER 10years…. I knew these PC’s when they were in AMWAY… when they were ONLY 1000PV.


  85. TOD permalink
    August 19, 2011 7:58 am

    Barb is right Rascal. We have all been where you are and a lot of us had success so I will not jump down your throat, but please start asking questions and thinking for yourself. I know you want to believe, we all did. You will spend way too much time building someone else’s dream and when they are done with you, you will be bad mouthed on your way out the door. Just take a look at Qrush and know that that kind of venom and criticism from the leaders you now follow will find you once you leave.

  86. Jay permalink
    October 29, 2011 5:53 pm

    Hysterical! I can appreciate a good laugh and have certainly got that from some of the above posts.
    Top 5% earner in the country….c’mon….get real! That is why you are spending your efforts bashing someone else. Although you may fooled by your own self proclaimed success….I assure you that anyone so ambitious and achieving as you pretend to be would be more focused on finding something productive to do rather than trying to convince others to be at their lonely and defeated level. Keep hiding behind a screen name and a website and be the star in your fantasy world…..just keep in mind that the same people you are bashing are having success at what they have set out to do. In addition, the million people goal….who knows and who cares….but I’d much rather fail at a large goal than not have one at all.

    I’m not in Team, Life or MonaVie……nor do I agree with much of the pricing for some super juice. But the fact remains that nobody is forced to join or stay in MonaVie or Team and if they choose to do so….I applaud them for having the balls to make their own decision and not listen to some pathetic website filled with bashing and jealousy.

    As far as the statement of being “one of the leaders others saw on stage”….yeah, okay….keep playing that fantasy! Let me guess, the same people who are currently bashing others has a side of character and integrity that has compelled them to urge others to stay away from LIFE. You may wish you were one of the leaders in TEAM or LIFE or whatever it is because being a ‘Has Been’ would be a step up from a ‘Never Was’….or even worse, a ‘Never Will Be’.

    Best of luck with your blog… those reading, best of luck in all you do as well. With or without Team/Life….you are only limited to how much you believe in yourself. I would warn you though….Be careful who you take advice from on the internet, these top 5% earners in the country are a dime a dozen on here.

  87. brent hansen permalink
    October 29, 2011 7:50 pm

    Jay how about a last name and a phone number big guy, we can talk.

  88. Speak Your Truth permalink
    October 30, 2011 10:11 am

    Lmao!….And Jay is not a Liefer….Riiight!

  89. Speak Your Truth permalink
    October 30, 2011 12:21 pm

    I am pretty confident that you are going to see a whole slew of ‘Jay’s’ who come and just feel compelled to defend, for no apparent reason? Are NOT a part of Lief…lol. Perhaps, it is because of the new LieF P&P Police will hunt them down and take their…I mean Orrin’s business from them and they must ‘pretend’… come with their first names..which if they ‘follow’ those new laws would require them to NOT respond to these

    For me…no suprise have seen people lie, to ‘protect’ their ‘money’ or ‘pipe dream’ for almost 2 decades. It is to be expected.

  90. OhBeJoyful permalink
    September 20, 2012 7:21 am

    The problem with the one million member goal is not that it is too high of a number. The problem is that it is much too low!

    If we are generous and say that the TEAM membership number at the beginning of the 5 year period was 50,000 then growing the organization to 1,000,000 only represents a 20 fold increase (about 84% a year.) On average each distributor within TEAM will grow at the same rate as the overall TEAM organization … some more, some less.

    At this growth rate the typical person joining team at the start of the 5 year period can expect his or her group to grow to about 20 people at the end of the 5 year period. A twenty person group does not provide much income especially for five years of work!

  91. Brent Hansen permalink
    September 20, 2012 1:18 pm

    @OhBeJoyful, aaahhhh…someone who follows my same thought process.

    You wrote, “A twenty person group does not provide much income especially for five years of work!”

    Actually to be more precise, zero income, that’s right, because commissions – expenses = income. Since it takes around 26 people to break even from the network in this farce of a business model, even after 5 years of hard work and effort, you would still not be covering your own $50 subscription.

    Unless of course you take advantage of the bounteous 3 and its free program. Put that in your pipe and smoke it.

  92. ageofwisdom51 permalink
    September 20, 2012 2:21 pm

    Re: MWRascal’s post (and by the way, I wonder if that makes this person part of Brady’s RASCAL team?: what a sick, sad, sorry ignorant post. Obviously, this person has NOT looked into anything (e.g., not read the actual financial scheme of payment; not read the longstanding history of the upper mucks; not bothered to find out the philosophy of “domesticating” the ignorant herds they lure in, etc.) …which ALSO would include: never reading the multiple online court proceedings of past iterations of Woodward etal business endeavors, all of which have NOTHING to do with the Amthrax site!

    They just LOVE claiming it’s just a disgruntled few! They LOVE claiming that it’s just disgruntled blogs and ignore the actual facts posted elsewhere that they could click on and read. There’s a REASON they’re on this site—likely more little Woodward and Policy Council toadies.

    And I can tell this person straight out: I am NOT related to a soul on here and never knew a one of them prior to 8/10/12….but the folks on this site helped us to GET EDUCATED IN THE FACTS as the indirect victims of LIFE/Team fallout/filthy attitudes against family when our only beloved adult child got sucked into this current scheme of Woodward’s and Brady’s. We actually experienced some of the things that Eric talks about in his book ‘Merchants of Deception’.

  93. freedomhaha permalink
    January 29, 2014 7:38 am

    They have to be getting close, right? At least 100K if they are going to be at 1,000,000 in less than two years.

  94. September 2, 2015 4:51 pm

    I’m watching to see how close they get to a million…..tick, tock, tick, tock,

    It isn’t even going to be close.

  95. exTEAMster permalink
    September 2, 2015 7:37 pm

    I haven’t spent a nickel on any LIFE materials in more than two years, but I’m still probably being counted among LIFE’s active members because my “spot” still appears on my upline’s business chart. It simply appears as inactive. So you can bet that whatever number Orrin spouts as the current LIFE membership number, it does not reflect active members. Considering the IDS suggests a 50 percent dropout rate, imagine how many people they would have to churn through to actually ever get to a million active users/customers?

  96. Anonymous permalink
    March 17, 2016 7:02 pm

    I wonder if they were closer to a million a year ago than they are today.

  97. freedomhaha permalink
    March 18, 2016 3:49 am

    Anon- I wonder if they were closer 5 years ago when they launched LIFE

  98. Heather permalink
    March 18, 2016 2:39 pm

    I can’t wait to hear Orrin’s excuse this November for why they didn’t reach a million in five years. I remember him specifically saying, “a million people attending functions like this.” He said that at the November 2011 major, which was the last one I attended.

    BTW, years later my husband and I are still incredibly glad we got out of this business cult. If it weren’t for vigilant folks like Amthrax we might still not have a L.I.F.E.!

  99. October 21, 2016 3:34 am

    Well, I can only assume in 10 days it will be proven how foolish the rest of us are. Not to mention how our attitude is what prevents us from succeeding at life.

    I wonder what the head count is now? Do they even have 50 thousand people in LEFE/TEAM or whatever new generic name they come up with to hide themselves?

    I’m going to put this out there. Not likely.

    And that makes me smile.

  100. Anonymous permalink
    October 21, 2016 8:54 am

    Wouldn’t the five year mark have been July 2016 ?
    I don’t know how they’ve managed to stick around so long without changing names again.

  101. freedomhaha permalink
    October 21, 2016 9:27 am

    11/1/11 was the convention in Columbus that was the roll out of LIFE. I was there when Orrin said that in five years they would be going to1,000,000 people butts in seats at conventions.

  102. Mr. Anonymous permalink
    October 30, 2016 8:52 pm

  103. freedomhaha permalink
    October 31, 2016 5:28 pm

    Sad to admit that I actually watched that whole video. Not shocked to report I now know the same amount about whatever business this is supposed to be.

  104. Anonymous permalink
    November 1, 2016 3:20 pm

    I should have seen this coming. I wonder how many poor saps will get suckered. Will Dallin offer Orrin Woodward another $1 million dollar loan (and not have to pay back) to join – shades of MonaVie?
    In the video he mentions a million people.
    Villiany And Spending Assures Your Outcome

  105. Vogel permalink
    November 5, 2016 9:35 am

    Ha! This is fun…


    This won’t end well for Mr. Larceny.

  106. Anonymous permalink
    November 24, 2016 7:07 am

    They probably meant getting an extra million in their wallets every month.

  107. Anonymous permalink
    January 20, 2017 12:22 pm

    So what has Orrin Woodward and Chris Brady said about this lately? Anybody ask them or their minions?

  108. ex-TEAMster permalink
    January 20, 2017 3:08 pm

    ANONYMOUS: Haven’t been to any live events for several years, but looking at the LIFE social media pages, I can’t tell you the last time I saw a reference to ‘Going To A Million’. The big slogan right now is #TLYAW (The Life You Always Wanted).

  109. freedomhaha permalink
    January 22, 2017 7:00 am

    ex-TEAMster- The interesting thing about the “Going To 1,000,000” goal was that with the launch of LIFE Orrin put a date on it. That date has came and went with not even a Tweet coming from the masses. Normally TEAMspeak dances around the questions, but this time Orrin put a dated goal on something publicly and fell well short. I wasn’t in that long (The Mona Vie- LIFE years), but I wonder if Orrin has had other obvious public shortfalls like the “Five Year to A Million” goal.

  110. ex-TEAMster permalink
    February 14, 2017 2:42 pm

    I just looked and there has not been an updated Income Disclosure Statement since the period ending Aug. 2015. You can’t get a sense from the IDS of how many people are active in LIFE, but here are some startling numbers: roughly 75 percent of those active are Student 1,000 level or below (i.e., they’re in the bottom five of the 15 potential stepping stones to the highest levels of the organization); 55 percent quit after their first year; 44 percent earn no monthly checks. With a 55 percent churn every year, you’re losing more people every year than you keep. It would seem to be a statistical impossibility to ever reach a million.

  111. exTEAMster permalink
    October 17, 2017 10:13 am

    LIFE just had its latest “major” in Louisville. A downline of Team Guzzardo posted from the event on Facebook and claimed the 15,000 in attendance at the event represented the 400,000 LIFE members (no idea of the accuracy of that 400,000 figure, but assuming he heard it from someone higher up than him). That’s just a tad short of the million-member mark that was targeted for 2016. The new stated goal appears to be distribution of 1 million “green boxes” which is LIFE’s financial fitness course. Has this thing bogged down that much on its own accord or did the departures of Tim Marks, Mark Paul et al put that big of a dent LIFE’s numbers?

  112. Ed Bosch permalink
    October 24, 2017 3:25 pm

    Orrin’s latest video.

  113. freedomhaha permalink
    November 15, 2017 5:58 pm

    Interesting… the video didn’t work for me.

  114. Ed Bosch permalink
    November 16, 2017 11:17 am

    I’m bummed too freedomhaha, It was about 40 minutes long and it seemed like Orrin was really trying hard to re-brand L / L as a go-to for all financial wisdom. Near the end of the video Orrin also took a pop-shot in a round about way at Bonvera.

    I was surprised he took the video down so soon because it looked like they spent a lot of time making the video. It looked like it was filmed in his library from multiple camera angles.

  115. exTEAMster permalink
    November 20, 2017 12:55 pm

    This isn’t the video that Ed originally posted, but it is basically the selling pitch for the Financial Fitness program ….


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