Is this true?
Triple Diamond Greg Duncan has been in bankruptcy court since the end of 2007???
Update: Greg Duncan’s brother Brad confirms his brother’s bankruptcy in this YouTube video.
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Two timelines depicting key events in the history of TEAM. The first is focused on the bankruptcy cases for TEAM/LIFE Round Table members, the Hubers, Cullens and Darkangelos, and the strategic real estate default of Policy Council Member George Guzzardo. The second shows how the rhetoric of the TEAM/LIFE leadership does not match its action.
AMTHRAX 
Click here for the detail provided by Scott Larsen. Seems like the fellow who asked folks “to tell him what Forbes said about Quixtar” which Forbes did calling Amway/Quixtar significantly enough, a pyramid scheme. Duncan, front man for World Wide Dream Builder propaganda has no problem leaving his creditors in the lurch. Isn’t he such a wonderful person, one to be inspired by?
What about all the blarney about paying for everything in cash that these weasels promote to the ibo underlings?
The Duncans most likely will be paying in cash, having forsaken their creditors in bankruptcy and foreclosure making the credit option defunct.
From what I can gather, he is another of these kingpins, much like Orrin Woodward, who admitted on my blog to paying out millions to lawyers. Who would want to sue such wonderful successful folk as the Duncans?
Most likely, the Duncans were completely ‘underwater’ in their real estate ventures and opting to bail out on those obligations. So much for honor and credibility which these scoundrels like to preach about from their ‘God inspired’ Amway pulpit, where all the faithful aspire to be like Greg. So IBO faithful, “Just go for it!”
I suppose the Duncan’s Amway success can be descrbed by not just how many people in their downline have been taken, but by how many bankers trusting in them were significantly taken as well? Oh, of course the citizens will be bailing these others out of their dire straights to the tune of billions.
I am scratching my head about how someone with supposedly so many millions in assets couldn’t cover what (by comparison) was not really that much debt? Obviously, these assest were over valued and couldn’t be unloaded, or they were tied up in one of Duncan’s legal disputes?
I guess Duncan was ‘All In!’
If Duncan has the assets to cover the debt. And he files Chapter 11 bankruptcy to “reorganize” his debts, it means he is seeking to protect his assets from his creditors.
Otherwise, his creditor could put a lien on Duncan’s property, bank accounts, etc. With the Chapter 11, now there will be a supervised repayment schedule and Duncan’s other assets will be protected.
What a fraud! The mastermind, brainchild of WWDB can’t manage his finances. He was supposedly next in line to take over WWDB from Puryear. So much for paying cash for everything. He’s got a ton of credit card debt. Poor Laurie can’t shop at Nordstrom’s anymore. Wow I feel so sorry for her! I saw this loser at Dream Night in 2006 and he was bragging about taking Laurie shopping in Paris at Louis Vutton – he was one of the top 50 buyers in the world or some nonsense. I wonder if Brad isn’t far behind. I heard he has $75M in cash. Why hasn’t he bailed out his big brother? BTW, has anyone wondered about the Power Wave Amway was supposed to be taking advantage of? I guess GDuncan missed it!
Breaking it down to the simplest of terms, he doesn’t have the cash to pay for the things he’s bought, and it’s becoming too difficult for him to fulfill his financial obligations.
So much for a recession proof business…
Imagine that!!!! Faking an image and now its come to bite him in the arse!!!
This is hilarious!!!
Maybe this is one of the “many a diamond”
that Bridgett saw talking about renting.
LOL, actually, I believe that Greg Duncan is one who stood on stage talking about how stupid it is to finance a home and pay interest to the bank.
This is just another piece of evidence that some diamonds are smooth talking swindlers.
…swindlers, how appropriate
But but but, Amway did 8.2 billion in sales last year! Your job is a pyramid!
Seriously, I remember a function where Mr. Duncan said it was stupid to pay interest on anything, thus the “pay cash for everything” mantra. I guess he did not follow his own advice.
For any IBOs out there, maybe it would not be that wise to take counsel from a man who cannot manage his finances.
In many cases, it is not how much you have but what you do with what you have.
Some IBOs still feel that, despite this, it is still worth listening and counseling with Duncan about building an Amway business:
Sigh.
Ah yes, some IBOs feel that it is still worth counseling with Greg Duncan.
How many new diamonds have emerged from WWDB since 1998 or so? What growth have they seen? I recall some speeches made by WWDB leaders, some of which may have been given by Mr Duncan himself. Refering to having jobs or paying for homes with a mortgage, it was said “stupid comes to mind”.
So now that we can see diamonds and above quitting, homes foreclosed, bankruptcy. I ask where’s the fruit they always talk about?
Just one more observation, I looked through the materials posted on the Amquix website. I did not see 10% of the income donated to church/charity.
Greg,
will say anything to make money.. he thinks he is free.. he is a SLAVE to money… too bad he cannot look in the mirror and see a man of god.. what a disgrace to his family..
Gregs downline
Like anyone that really spent a good deal of time in WWDB, and specifically in a Duncan downline/Freunions and whatnot, you know this is amazing.
Wow, I can’t believe he used a interest only mortgage with a balance of 1.5+ million … let alone mortgages at all.
Puryear is not as wild in his speeches about mortgages interest as the Duncans so I am shocked.
I never thought XS was a fair deal from the beginning because Greg was double dipping and using his position to take advantage of other IBS … “all have the same opportunity” yeah right.
But what crazy is that he would turn around and sell a slightly different version of XS and call it ‘All In’ and use heavy sex appeal to do it. Just shocking really because they always volunteer all this “moral” talk. Its not like we ever asked about their morality, its just they stand up there and talk as though God wants them to be successful and God will do the same for us if we just learn to become like them.
All the while taking out interest only mortgages and negotiating with Amway owning XS and then turning around and selling All In behind Amways back …
Like I said, for anyone that spent multiple years in a Duncan org this is just amazing and almost unbelievable given all the things we have heard them say.
But they are just people like everyone and they used God as a justification to rip people off on multiple levels.
I went to one of their “reunion” things years ago in Washington State. I remember the peeps going nearly ‘nuts’ when all those Duncans were up on the stage…..still photos of all the cars, airplanes, etc. And, all of them standing up there and smiling big-time. I remember thinking even back then what a scam it was. I’m VERY glad I bailed whtn I did and, as for those Amway home products like the laundry soap and dish drop soap…..those were ALL garbage to me.
Here’s an added thought from that ‘ripoff’ of a seminar I went to back in the very early 90’s. Not only was it ‘cached’ in a “religious” kind of setting – ie: ‘church’ on Sunday, which myself and wife did not attend – I just didn’t feel very good about it. It sort of really gave me the creeps seeing this HUGE room full of people standing and screaming and cheering all those Dunc’s on the stage. Looking back at it now, it was Greg, Brad, and their parents as well as a couple of their close downlines, I think. It, even then, made my skin crawl. I think myself and my wife would’ve done MUCH better to have just taken the money we wasted watching that whole bullshit show and, spent it on the coast, instead. It was kinda like lambs being led to the ‘slaughter’. I think there IS a special place in hell for Scamway operators like these people.
Here’s yet ANOTHER thought I just recalled…..Brad was VERY fond of wearing silk suits. Telling EVERYONE at ANY function he was at, that he could NOT get a credit card because, he “didn’t have a job.” Another of his favorite ‘buzzlines’ was, “I’m a millionaire many, many times over.” I remember Dan W and Trey – whatever his last name was – and their wives nearly being enthralled with him. Even then, I had my doubts. That “start-up” kit DID cost me something as I remember. It also seems as if nepotism is VERY much in place in the AmScam organization. Those DeVos kids and the other guy’s kids being all up in it. They call it the “Miracle Mile” as I remember. Probably, a fitting term. It’s a miracle it’s still there given all the scams. There was another AmScam dirtbag I seem to remember….Bill Britt or something like that. All those postings about being told how to act and what to do ARE truthful.
One woman wrote on another site how people she barely knew, had only met one or two times, were coming up to her, hugging her and telling her how MUCH they loved her. WHAT a CROCK!!
Fortunately, my dealings with this sorry company cost me less than one thousand dollars total. I quit it, bailed and will NEVER buy ANYTHING with an Amway name on it.
People DO need to understand this. It’s a SCAM!!!!!!!! They show you photos of airplanes, boats, cars, mansions…..bring all these “speakers” in and tell you that you can have it but, it’s NOT ‘easy’. You need to WORK, WORK, WORK.
99.9% of most who try likely fail, I would think. And, fail AFTER spending money they didn’t have in the first place. Chasing that dream. That dream that AmScamWay loves to keep pushing on people.
After I’d attended that “seminar” and spent about 450 bucks on it, I remember one night sitting in a Dunkin Donuts. My daughter and wife were up in the Seattle area visiting her Mom. I was just sitting there, minding my own business, reading the paper I had purchased and sipping my coffee.
Some guy walked in, sat down one stool away from me, gets a soda. Of course, he’s dressed in a shirt and tie. I “smelled” Amway ALL over this guy.
He tried to ‘engage’ me in conversation. He asked me if I knew who ‘Bill Britt’ is, as I recall the name. I trumped him having been to some of those ScamWay seminars. I told him I knew he was one of those big AmWay wheels. Fresh from a ‘seminar’ and out trying to recruit ‘downlines’ in a Dunkin’ Donuts.
He was out “prospecting” as Amway likes to call it. Told me how ‘fired up’ his wife was after that meeting. (She was nowhere to be seen). I told him good for her and him. I’m sure they’re probably among the millions who have been scammed by WWDB and the Duncans and AmWay. OR, maybe they’re Diamonds or Emeralds paying into Duncan Family business?
All I wanted to do was be left ALONE and I finally told him that. The prospective AmWay millionaire finally left me alone.
That’s the way that scam operates. Hook people and they turn up in coffee shops or ANYWHERE trying to find ‘downlines’. My ‘upline’ actually probably committed and illegal act by talking to me and ‘recruiting’ me on the US Navy post exchange. He was a ‘merchandiser’ for a beer company in there setting up his displays and I’m sure it was VERY illegal for him to be doing what he did. Poured on the ‘charm’ and the sugar and that’s how I got sucked in. He was a civilian, I was active duty.
Just DO be wary people…..they glaze this up to look like it’s YOUR dream come true. It’s NOT, for the vast majority. I lost very little. I know it’ll come back knowing what the people behind it will end up with in the long run.
For some, it works but, that’s the HUGE minority. Guys like those Duncans and Britt and DeVos. IF you’ve lost to these dirtbags, don’t fret. Their day will come.
WHAT an inordinate amount of time I wasted on this thing. Even if less than a year, I got caught up in it and even tried to get downlines in MEXICO!!!!!
You all should’ve seen all these peeps in this hotel conference room in Santa Barbara drooling over Brad Duncan. It was nauseating. I had a BAD feeling about it even then. There was just something that was smacking as just not ‘being right’ about the whole thing.
But, it seemed, for every ONE of ‘me’ there were TEN who were being led down that path.
This was a few months before that big Oregon seminar. I think I mentioned it as WA State earlier. It was actually in Portland, OR.
At that much smaller Santa Barbara thing – 30 or so people – the asskissing on Brad Duncan nearly made me want to puke. ALL of the women there and most of the men there were SO far up his ass, it was sickening.
But, gotta give him his dues…..he, his bankrupt brother and his sorry parents are ALL pretty good scam artists. Brad was REAL fond of talking about how Greg dropped out of Med School ONE year shy of graduating. How he gave up a VERY lucrative career as a DOCTOR to be in AMWAY!!!!! WOO HOO!!!!!!
How he, his bro, his parents are ALL multi-millionaires and they show the photos of the ‘fruits’ of it. They all stand up on stage in tuxedos smiling and just acting like they’re all the cheese. Even then, I didn’t subscribe to it. I didn’t stay with it much past that.
Had I followed my ‘gut’ instinct, my wife and I would’ve gone to our hotel room, and left the next day and never looked back.
IF you or ANY one thinks you can make it with AMWAY, more power to you. It’s a crooked, corrupt, pyramid, controlling company and I wouldn’t buy a THING from that company or ANY ‘distributor’. Nowadays, I WISH one of these ‘prospectors’ WOULD approach me. I’d waste ALL his time.
I’d string him or her along for as long as I could. Act naive and unknowing since, that’s what they’re looking for. I’d be HAPPY to show up at a meeting. Dressed in street clothes and with my own six pack of beer. They don’t like you to NOT be dressed to the ‘nines’. SUITS required. Of course, ALL of this after stringing the recruiter on. I can only hope I get approached again.
So, the chicken’s have come home to roost: right on G Duncan’s forclosed properties.
About 12 years ago, my then-fiance got into Amway and bought the tapes (before CDs became popular) and did showed the plan, and was told that the more he drove to Amway events, the more successful he would be.
I could not STAND the arrogance of those Duncans, nor Puryear. Their far-right wing politics and fundamentalist Chritianity was more than I could stomach, I felt that if that was their worldview, FINE, but to force it onto other and tell people NOT to read but what is on thier “list”. My fiance and I eventually broke up (partly because of Scamway, partly because of other things): he is a very good person who felt that it was his fault that he could not become Diamond. Wherever my ex is, I hope he gets wind of this and understands that he did NOTHING wrong and that these guys (yes, guys, women ARE NOT ALLOWED TO SHOW THE PLAN, unless they are single, don’t even get me started on the sexism in Amway) in WWDB are a bunch of crooks and bullies.
I agree with you 1000%, Rob (my post below details my experience). I never felt right at those meetings, I tried to very briefly be okay with it for the sake of my fiance and our mutual friends.
I am so thankful for the internet (which G Duncan apparently hates, I can see why, the truth is getting out). Hopefully Amway’s image will continue to corrode.
Bankruptcy records ARE public, always. Some people do not like to admit it when they have been conned, these people deserve our sympathy.
Brandy – Thank you for your comments regarding Duncan and WWDB. I have additional posts about Duncan’s activities here:
https://amthrax.wordpress.com/tag/greg-duncan/
Dan
Aug 19th, 2009 at 03:23
These folks(Duncan) Brag about how great of businessmen they are and can not pay their own Bills. Brab Sold his Whitefish home for 8 millon dollars. The man who bought it Sold it the next Day for 12 Millon. No matter how much Money you make You must spend less than you make. Spend more than you are making you Go Broke. That is what happened to the Duncans. All five of the Whitefish home have for sale signs in front of them. A texas lender now holds the titles and the y are all for Sale . I just Drove past them at 1:30 pm Today Aug. 18 2009. The bigger they are t he Harder they fall
Hey Brandy. I DO remember those tapes, too. Like you said, CD’s were still aways off. And, that arrogance…..you hit that one STRAIGHT on. In that real long post above, I mentioned how BAD the brown-nosing was. That was what really nauseated me. I don’t know if I ever met Puryear and don’t even recall meeting Greg Duncan. I did meet Brad a few times and saw them all up on that stage in Portland. The two sons and their wives and the mommy and daddy. You’d have thought they were Jesus and all the deciples (sp?). There must’ve been 5000 people or more in that room screaming their collective heads off.
You’re STRAIGHT on with that post, Theresa. I’ve met BOTH of those Duncan scumbags and VERY clearly remember Brad saying he has to pay cash for EVERYTHING because he CANNOT get a credit card because he doesn’t have a job but, he doesn’t care because, “I’m a millionaire many, many times over.” It was the early 90’s in San Diego when I checked this thing out. Was stupid enough to spend the money for one of those weekends in Portland. WHAT a waste of money. Check out some of those posts some kissass friend of Brad’s put on YouTube. Brad picking up his new Porsche or some bullshit like that. It’s sickening.
There are two sides to every story, I have been myself a distributor at one time and yes, I agree, spent a lot of money on tools, tapes and functions……sure money was made along the way. I even lost money by buying inventory on the counsel of upline, gone into debt doing it, and even had some checks bounce by stretching too far. I was never once told not too do it too when it was so obvious that i was stretching thin just to make certain bonus brackets.
However, I am very successful now in my own job, business and family life and a lot of it does have to do with what I learned through the tapes, books and functions. We are all human and life happens to the best of us…..this whole bankruptcy thing is just one of those and I don’t think we should jump at any opportunity to trash talk on someone either. I still believe Greg has helped more people than you and I did.
Dave W, your statements don’t make sense. What you’re saying is something like I learned something from the guy who robbed me so it’s all good. Or I got swindled but the conman goes to church and helps a lot of people. Give me a break.
Dave W.
So what you are saying, it is wonderful to basically get took, as long as you learn something from it? All your independent success now can be attributed to Amway? Why Amway? No other life experiences like education are important?
You remind me of the fellow (Robert Pagliarini) who recenlty publicly advocated Amway because it can make you a better person. Seems Paliarini forgot to mention that he also writes shameful tomes that are sold as motivational tools himself. Forget all the harm it has inflicted on countless thousands of people, and for which you yourself admit that it has caused you. Instead of seeing through all the lies, you seem to want to believe what you know is a lie. Typical of people having left the
‘business’ which is really just a front for a cult that extracts the wealth of those foolish enough to even believe that it is a business, not a ‘closed market swindle.’
hey guy i think with every thing in life you got to pay for it , not thing wrong with spend money on investment if you want success or succeed . how bout people spend money on buying conventionally business and lose all , or go to school spent hundred of thousand of dollar and not get the job they you want , who is scram teacher or school system? think about it before you open your mouth , because you cannot make in it don’t slam the Amway I think you don’t have what it take to make it in life hehehe , do you know free enterprise it take work and money and fallow the right system if you so smart how many life you help.
you know henderson ford when he come up with the idea making car people think he crazy but who is crazy
back to you all again let’s talk about Greg duncan do you know guys? his life before Amway you think he ever have a chance to go bankrupt of 8 M dollars is no chance , now look at the positive side . now at least he has lived without a job for 25 years stayed home with his family, for the labor he is doing and stick with the business not like you have no Dream to succeed .
if you say Greg is taking advantage of you , ask yourself why are you working for the company you work for, they only pay you with peanuts and they keep the rest for themself nobody say anything when people who have the chance to make through Amway they complain , I think because you guys have no guts to know who you are ( chicken, yellow ) .
how bout Sam Wallton Owner of Walmart went Bankupct with millions twice before he made it in life did you not stop and think of where he got all the money to loose? Come on people!! you need to Learn about the 1 % who made it in this country obviousely not because you are 95% Hahaha .
I hope you can use your brain
when everytime you buy something, somewhere, did anybody give you money ? or gave you a chance to build your own business at the same time? The only company that can do that is Amway . costco cost money to be a member too they don’t give you the same opportunity that’s why you have to buy your cds,books, go to seminars to learn to become what you want out of it . if you know how to make it in life you don’t need this but obviousely IF YOU KNOW YOU WILL HAVE , IF YOU KNOW YOU DON’T HAVE MIGHT AS WELL YOU DO NOT KNOW . people spend money to go to school to make $ 40,000 year income when they retire they do not have enough to live, who is smarter between employee & AMWAY Diamond?? Dont tell me the govenment will take care of me there is no chance.
If you are smart, you should be making like Greg Duncan & go brankrupt at 8 Million. can you do that?? Obviousely you dont know how to make the 8 Million to loose, do you know?? if he loose 8 Million he probably make it back faster than he loose, because he knows how to make it before he loose them. if you are so smart try to catch up with him & try to make in your lifetime.
i know i dont spell very good english, but i know this country is free Enterprise if you want something you have to work hard & be smart not to be stupid with the media. because they sell the news people love other peoples laundry, what does that say about this country?? you are obviousely grow up in the poverty mentally thinking, if you ever read the bible he doesnt give the talent to the slave he gives it to the business man…. Why is that??
I have to question the line of thinking of “freedom”. So what if Greg went bankrupt with 8 million. The bigger they are the harder they fall.
Maybe Greg can earn some side money to help his finances. I hear that cleanin toilets is a noble profession. Maybe Greg can get a job cleaning toilets? LOL
well you know what Joe what happen to Greg is his choice is no body business beside I don’t down Amway for it that’s I am don’t like about it .
Freedom is what people what they want to do in life , Don’t thing Greg ever going to clean the toilet like you said he all way going to make money from what the work he done 25 year ago one thing I can say no any job or career you will pay you after you stop working accept Diamond life.
Oh yes by the way that $ 63 millions asset , Diamond make more then $150,000. a year it’s $500,000. if he invest in stock or real estate double every 8 years so if you compound interest, and beside he is triple diamond that mean more money Hello.
what ever you do Don’t say bad thing about Amway if you want to say some thing is people do make mistake is human .
when are you going to make your millions daller and keep get pay you after you done your work if you die you still geting pay for ever in what you , only this business and get start with $260.00 .
can you tell me what is out there have the same opportunity.
On the MLM Blog, there are rumblings that WWDB leaders are denying the Greg Duncan bankruptcy, saying the entire thing is untrue and fabricated. Amazing!
Most of you vultures and losers can’t Waite to justify you own useless and failed lives by pointing out the possible failure of someone else. . . But did any of you jackals bother to notice the ??? at the end of “Greg Duncan Bankrupt ?” . . . I thought not ! . . . You ALL need to get a life and stop waiting for your King Obama to do something for you because it ain’t gonna happen !!!!
Hi John,
I get immense pleasure at seeing someone who lied through his teeth get some retribution.
The ?? doesn’t mean anything. The duncan bankruptcy is public record and the documents are all there. Read it and weep.
Why every MLM or Network Marketing Business is called scam by losers?
I am a student of MBA and studied economics and marketing with finance. I tried to study various MLM businesses with conventional businesses like gas station or pizza shop. I also compared with job which pay $100000 a year.
But still wondered why this MLM is better in long run.
Quit simple losers. MLM makes you richer in long run no matter what happens. If you have guts to stay in business for long time with proper knowledge under good leadership.
You idiots. In USA, one millionaire goes bankrupt everyday. And one millionaire emerges everyday thats how the cycle runs. Don’t you get this simple fact.
Just imagine if there is no loser in the world how could Duncan became rich and you donkeys remain middle or lower class.Thats it!!!! Simple.
I met some people who failed in this business like one of my friend who teaches math and doing research in economics. He said he failed in 6 months. Fools there is no business in the world which make you rich in six months. Any business you open, you need to work at least five years. I know my senior in college, he was not in Duncan business but he was in MLM but different. He earns around million a year and he is only 40. Also, my brother got into Amway and quit in one year. But his junior or they say downline remain in business and my brother regret right now to quit. That junior guy is making six figure in India.
Conclusion: The people who think any MLM is scam are either losers, dumb, illiterate, pessimistic, or aliens from different world. And if they still brag about any MLM, they should try MLM and experience it by themselves. Because MLMs businesses are very easy to start.
MLM seems better because you can exploit others for profit. But it is quite clear that long term success in just about any MLM is not sustainable because of the high turnover of IBOs. You can only fool enough people for so long before they realize they are being scammed and quit.
Are people all BROKE by any chance?
Oh boy the level uneducated people contributing to this blog is rediculous ( 1 fool makes many). Get all your facts straight! Go find out what Donald Trump the No. 1 Business Author and Robert Kiosaki the No.1 personal finance Author says about direct selling and networking marketing.
Here is a link to Brad Duncan talking about Greg’s financial situation.- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xPvclsbMXxE
Ken: That was a great voicemail from Brad talking about Greg and the other IBO. Amazing the ways they try to cover up for these mistakes. Why weren’t you saying those things when edifying them on-stage for all those years? I’m going to write a post up about this.
I spent some time with Greg, his downline, and others in the WWDB organization. I have nothing to gain by what I am about to write.
My failure in business in the WWDB organization had everything to do with me, the amount of time I did or did not put into it, and my commitment to growing my business. Not all business ventures are going to succeed, but it even more evident that if you are looking to get rich fast….without effort…..or with minimal effort relatively speaking, then you are only fooling yourself. Some who fail are inclined to blame others.
It’s obvious that at least one blogger here wants to blame WWDB, AMWAY, the Duncan’s and anyone else but himself for his failure in business. He ought to recognize that he treated it as a hobby, didn’t take it seriously as a business, and get on with doing something productive rather than making absurd comments about a business he really knows nothing about.
Being involved in the business a year or two, doing nothing, and then pretending that you were a serious business builder is insulting to the intelligence of the serious.
Greg and company did a good job brainwashing you to think that your failure in the business was all on you. Bravo.
I worked the Amway business hard. I was out practically every nite showing the plan for myself or my downline. I attended all the meetings and I drove the miles. I sponsored 12 and had eagle parameters at the 4000 PV level. I think I can say that I “did the work”. What I found was that I was not making any money because of the expenses associated with the tools system that WWDB leaders sworte was the “key to success”. These same leaders also swore that “NOBODY” made a profit on tools (functions/books/standing orders). Well, we now know that they lied. These same wonderful mentors were quick to credit success to the system but any failure was personal responsibility/ Great cult-like teaching.
Ain’t it great?
To: Was with Greg
I spent personal time with Brad Duncan while I was around thier system. My personal opinion was that he consistently told little lies to everyone almost every time he talked and suggested his money came from God’s blessings … if only you listen to him and the system you too will be blessed by God in a similar way. Cult
But here’s my personal opinion about your lingering belief leftover from your brainwashing days … they would tell you “if you work the business you will be blessed, and if you don’t work it you will be cursed”
Story about work habit or faulty leadership? You decide
Around 2006 Ron Puryear put out a challenge over the Kate vmail system to every leader at the Executive Diamond level and below …
Puryear said “leaders, show everyone it can be done … go double eagle with new people on the side of your current business”. This challenge was specifically for: Ruby’s, Emeralds, Diamonds, and Executive Diamonds
Everyone in WWDB, regardless of business size, heard this challenge and it was discussed by leadership for all to hear at major functions.
For example, the likes of Dave Shores told everyone he was working though a list of 400 contacts and giving advise on how to show the “webtour” to new people … he was on his way to meet the challenge!!! Right?
The challenge was a great plan by Ron Puryear as it would show all WWDB members that this is a matter of work habit and nothing more, but one small issue …
Zero leaders could meet the challenge! ZERO.
After that they didn’t speak of the challenge nor was it ever discussed they just pretended it never happened.
All this to say, it helped me see the WWDB leadership was lost and had become so focused on getting people to buy tools simply because they don’t know what they’re doing anymore… it’s no longer the 1970s
That was 2006, it’s only fell through the floor for WWDB from there.
Puryear has the Riverhouse for sale but dropping the price by millions with no bites
Greg Duncan Bankrupt
Wolgamott out
Shores Foreclosed
Kosage out
Attalah fell out of diamond qual
Harstad out
Attendance dropping
Functions being removed and moved to smaller venues
Obviously this is not true. The only reason why you decided to say all this crap about Greg Duncan is because you didn’t have enough of the business mentality to keep going. You’re probably one of those people who didn’t have the whatever it takes attitude and decided to give people the wrong idea and make yourself feel better. I’m pretty sure you’re not a man or a woman with power that would accept failure and get back up to start again. For those who didn’t get to experience this great opportunity should do some serious research on reliable websites like http://www.bbb.org/ they are the top agencies on businesses. Stop feeding yourself with negative or you’ll just live your life negative. Just because you couldn’t make it on stage, doesn’t you should crash others dreams on doing so.
Mi Mi: Did you not hear Brad Duncan talk about his brother’s bankrupty (his third, no less!) on this KATE message?
Please come back and comment once you’ve heard that recording.
Poor mi mi, you are so blind right now. My wife and I were platinum for 4 years and did speak on stage. I would be willing to bet we were more sold out in our sleep than you are awake. Fact is that your brainwashed to believe that this is all there is in life and I can honestly say that I can relate as we were once like you. It takes a long time to come to grips with the truth and I hope you find it before you lose more time with the people you love. PS would you even believe this about Greg Duncan if you heard it from his own brother?? Well here you go- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xPvclsbMXxE&feature=youtube_gdata_player
If that link doesn’t work just search “Greg Duncan” on YouTube. Please reply after you listen to that.
This is just another example of WWDB revisionist history. They simply make some people disappear if something happens or deny things that are obvious, or even outright lie about certain situations. For example, Howie Danzik married Teresa Tsuruda, both of them diamonds. The WWDB website said Howie built the business as a single. That’s strange because Joecool attended a Howie and “Susan” Danzik function in Hawaii.
What’s scary is how IBOs believe everything even when the contrary is obviuous.
Nobody forces you to do anything in this business; in FACT, you don’t even HAVE to be a part of WWDB. Thats right; you can choose to have NOTHING to do with those people, which is what we are leaning towards. All they do is try to bring you up and recruit people, and no, they DON’T give you all the information you should know before getting into the business. We had to figure that out after signing up. I don’t really enjoy the “plans” they ALWAYS have, where they want you to dress up really nice, just to sit in someones living room, telling you about Brad Duncan’s helicopter. (Big WOOP. I don’t give two *hits about a damn helicopter). We are involved so we can get another stream of income, not so we can become millionaires and retire in a year. We are being realistic about it, not recruiting people just to create a downline; not going up to random people, handing them a cd, and telling them to listen to it just to hook them in because they are excited without thinking it through. We’re not stupid. If you ask me, WWDB is the scam, NOT Amway. Amway is a fabulous business opportunity, and NOBODY told you that you had to be involved with WWDB. So be SMART. Use your common sense, and find out what is best for YOU, not what is best for your upline.
” All they do is try to bring you up and recruit people, and no, they DON’T give you all the information you should know before getting into the business. We had to figure that out after signing up. ”
That alone should set off red flags about who you are dealing with.
And that is why we don’t want to deal with the people of WWDB. You can make a successful business without working with those people.
How do you propose to make yourself successful in Amway?
Sell products, make money…like a retail store…because that’s precisely what it is. I don’t want to be a millionaire; this is an extra stream of income. How do successful people make money and stay successful? They have multiple streams of income. Too many people put all of their hopes, money, and time into this, and they just end up losing in the end.
You don’t need multiple streams of money. You just need enough money coming in from whatever the source is. Many of these diamonds tell you that Amway is all you need.
Are you not reading anything I write? Not all people affiliated with Amway are bad people just in it for the profit. I KNOW thats what they tell you; they’re wrong, unless you want to sell your soul and be a slave to a LOS. And I don’t. I don’t give a crap what those people say, because they are wrong. Did you not read my comment about successful people? How does Robert Kiyosaki make so much money? How does Donald Trump make so much money? They have MULTIPLE SOURCES OF INCOME. And the people who REALLY listen to Kiyosaki cd’s should get that; however a lot of those people are pretty dim and closed minded about Amway and WWDB (or any other LOS) and think thats all they need.
WWDB is its own little celebrity circus. The glitz and glamour doesn’t blind me. I’m not interested in Brad Duncan’s 50 homes, his helicopter, or his gun closet and cherry red car. Or his brother’s scrillion homes (and ability to lose them, although that is pretty comical). I can see right through that. The lies and the BS. Not. For. Me.
So I’m not really sure if you are fully taking in my comments…I know the higher ups are stupid. I get that. I’m with you on thinking WWDB is a waste of time. However, Amway ALONE has potential, as long as you are smart. Key word there. And this world is greatly lacking people in that department.
Hannah,
How do you know Kiyosaki is wealthy and has multiple stream oif income? He has never disclosed his financials. Some people suspect he only makes his money selling his rich dad books and seminars.
You are really dim. And this proves that you really aren’t reading my comments. Maybe Kiyosaki did make all his money off his books and stuff…so what? Atleast he is doing it to actually HELP people, unlike the people of WWDB. But the POINT was that rich, successful people have MULTIPLE STREAMS OF INCOME. You didn’t say anything about the Donald. Is it not true that he has multiple streams of income? Or how about Bill Gates? Or many other wealthy people? Do you not agree?
Hannah, “smart” people (bill gates, donald trump) have good revenue streams. Amway is one stupid low paying revenue stream. Why do you think wwdb and other organizations have tool systems and functions? Answer: its because the over priced products dont pay squat! And your going to do it without a system. You really are looking pretty silly in this thread. Oh, and I know from experience as I was a platinum for 4 years in wwdb.
I look silly? “Why do you think wwdb and other organizations have tool systems and functions? Answer: its because the over priced products dont pay squat!” What does that have to do with anything I ever said? You really can’t follow a conversation very well. And how is WWDB a good system? They don’t help you do the things you need to know how to do in a MLM business; from my experience, it was ALL about the motivation and the money that everyone made. They never helped us with the actual business. Sure, thinking about it a lot gets you pumped, but if you don’t actually do anything about it you won’t get anywhere. And their values are NOT our own. We’re not going to go around and preach “the plan” when we don’t believe in the way they want us to do it. We’re not going to lie to people to make an extra buck or two. Dropping WorldWide doesn’t mean we don’t still have the encouragement and support of our upline. They are there to help; that is what MLM is all about.
Hanna you’re not drinking the Sa8 are you? Listen , you’ve burned up too much time in this blog talking to guys that are not near as smart as you. You need to be out their pushin those products. Go get em tiger! Check back in 2-5 years and tell us how far along you are with your awesome multiple sources of income plan.
Yeah, try not buying tools and see how dedicated your upline is to helping you. And for your information, Kiyosaki is not in the business of “helping people”. His own commercials even have a disclaimer of “unique experience” when they show success testimonies. Go look up the meaning of unique.
Wow Joe”cool”. You’re pretty much an asshole, aren’t ya? You don’t make logical, intelligent comebacks, you just spout out whatever comes to your little mind. You’re just dead set on arguing with everyone. Well, goodbye Joe”cool”. Its been amusing “arguing” with you, but I can tell we’re not getting anywhere You’re just more proof that douchebags are involved with and run WorldWide.
“You’re just more proof that douchebags are involved with and run WorldWide.”
Thanks, I’ll take that as a compliment. LOL
All I’m gonna say, is where else can you work hard and RETIRE in your 20’s or 30’s and have a residual income after you retire? Nowhere! It’s actually impossible……except for this business.
How many people are in their 20s and 30s and are retired as a direct result of this business?
The answer is zero. Even all the old and tired crown ambassadors from my IBO days in the 1990’s are still working.
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Are you people retarded? Is my message that unclear? WWDB IS A LOAD OF CROCK.
After sitting on it for several weeks, we’re done. Too much work, and its NOT our passion. How can you continue to do something that isn’t your passion? Thinking about the guy that “showed us the plan…” heh, he’s kind of a tool. The products don’t get you many points. Lame. And if you are to buy food for your household, you’ll go broke in no time. Twelve pounds of spagetti noodles for thirty bucks! Great! I went to the store and bought a week’s worth of meals for thirty bucks!
That being said, Amway is a still a great starter business. Where else can you start a business for practically nothing? This is what people don’t see. ITS DAMN CHEAP TO START THIS BUSINESS!
There is too much drama and BS in this world, and I DO NOT want any part of it. I would rather work my ass off doing something I like and feel rewarded in the end.
In the end…WWDB is the scam. You can make a couple bucks off Amway. That simple. You won’t become a millionaire (unless you sell to millions of people), but you can make SOME money.
So come on people. Quit worrying about this BS scheme and get a life. And if you were one of the poor souls who got sucked into the world where you acted like a slave, well thats your own damn fault. If you can’t see that SOMETHING ISN’T WORKING, then damn. You aren’t the sharpest tool in the shed, now are you?
Hanna I hope you don’t take this the wrong way…I have a feeling that your mentally handicapped. Looking through your posts it appears you have been talking to yourself this entire time. One of your personalities is in Amway and the other hates WWDB and another thinks you can make money and another one thinks its a crock. I hope you post some more of your nutty rants…very entertaining :0)
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I somewhat agree that it is WWDB that is the scam and not necessarily Amway. But who has the power to prevent WWDB from scamming Amway IBOs? Isn’t it Amway?
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I remember back in the early ’80’s we were not to say we were in Amway until after the product demo and MLM pitch. When I saw my upline with 3 drums of car wash in his garage to maintain his direct distributor status I knew it was time to go. Still use the SA8 btw, it’s just much simpler now to order it on e-bay once a year.
I still wonder what the percentage of people that got in over the last 30 years made a real income after expenses that actualy stood the test of time.
I remember greg duncan telling a touching story to the audience in a function. He talked about how people with jobs barely survive and that one day when his daughter gets married, he will sit down with his son in law. He will ask his son in law what his best (job) offer was. Then he said he would offer his son in law double to work for him and he and his family would enjoy leaisure time together.
I wonder if one can afford that on bankruptcy income? 🙂 🙂 8)
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Aurora, I remember the Duncans (not sure which one) mentioned that they had multi million dollar life insurance policies which were fully paid for. Of course Greg said diamonds only use cash and if that was a tall tale, I suppose the life insurance story could be embellished also.
I did sit in an open meeting where Bill Britt said he would soon be worth a billion dollars. I haven’t seen that come to fruition yet.
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We know that Greg Duncan lied about buying everything in cash. I also remember when I heard from the stage that NOBODY made a profit from tools – which was another lie.
I heard one of these leaders say that WWDB was a non profit organization, yet another lie.
None of these liars have ever been held accountable for their lies as far as I know of.
The scary thing is that these leaders are still in business, likely teaching the same old stuff as many years ago. I have seen evidence of these by communicating with some current IBOs.
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I think it’s pretty obvious that the system promotes being successful even when you’re not. I know I was expected (as a college student) to buy a nice car to host people and drive them around in. Had to buy a nice suit, shoes, designer watch, etc (which I couldn’t afford) You had to make people believe you were successful… that’s by driving a nice car, wearing the nice clothes and talking the talk about how much $ you were pulling in.
We were taught if anyone asks how much $ you make to say “You wouldn’t believe it if I told you.” The p0int was to make the prospect believe you were making great $, but the reality of it is you were probably losing $. So not only are we spending tons of money on books, tapes, functions, gas, etc, etc, we are paying even more $ to give the persona that we are doing well so that we can scam other suckers into the business to realize this for themselves, but only after we’ve taken THEIR $.
I think this is where all the bigger pins went wrong… they have to play the “rich” game but at a higher level since they are larger pins. Emeralds have to have the tricked out Lexus or Mercedes even though they couldn’t even afford a Toyota. Diamonds have to have a Mercedes or better… a nice home and take extravagant vacations… all of which they can’t afford… but had to do it to make the peons in their downline believe how great it can be at the top!! JUST KEEP BEING CORE!! (aka giving us all your $).
I believe this is true in WWDB. I recall being at some meetings where guys all had nice suits and stuff but driving beat up old cars. The diamonds had a mercedes but who knows, it may have been leased or rented. They used to teach “fake it till you make it” so this falls right in line with that. Also, we are seeing signs that diamonds are liars with some WWDB diamonds having homes foreclosed. Debunks the theory that diamonds pay cash for everything.
Makes sense though, average diamond income plus some tools income cannot sustain multi million dollar mansions, jets and fleets of sport cars.
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Some of the leaders used religion as a rallying point to make Amway look better. Family values, you are a better/nicer person due to Amway, you are a better parent, Amway saves marriages, etc etc.
But the one that really ticked me off, looking back, was the line that Amway was a God pleasing business. They certainly have some nerve making that claim.
first off, if a person makes his own personal mistakes, then who is it that messed up? Duh him. He is responsible for his own mistakes and not following what he said at the end. No one is perfect.,yet you guys keep on blowing it up and including others and related businesses.
Anyway all I mean is don’t assume. I keep reading and I see so much assumptions some only based on half truths and some facts. Don’t follow he said said she said things. Get ALL the facts, then you guys can write these things but so far none of you have so I won’t make a judgment on any of it. Majority of writings here are flawed arguments or complete lies trying to support there side of an argument.
So STOP THINK and LISTEN. Amway is a legit business. Fact. Greg Duncan is a man who made mistakes and messed up his finances just like anyone can. Fact. There is NO direct connection between his personal actions and the business. Fact. All other biased comments here on specific other IBOs and what they believe are lies is unsupported by any facts(so far) or only part information. Any comment references when they talk about “GOD” in a negative way is there own biased as well. The commenter did not listen properly and now is spreading negative(which is hypocritical) and saying they are bragging is an oppion.
God wants us all to be successful in any and all that we do exceedingly beyond what we can dream or imagine. So if this business’s main principals help guide people to do that, then it is good.FACT. This was not learned from the business and was taught at many churches. A person’s goal is to help everyone join them in going to heaven as one of Jesus children, so if they have more fiances, godly teachings in and out of church, and have a passionate dream to help others, then instead of working(and allowing one’s wife to work under another man ungodly like),not having as much time to spend with one’s children, and having little to no cash to donate to(after tithes) they can spend as much time as they want with their loved ones, and helping others out by being able to give their time and cash to charities.
Of course this comes with hard work and effort. As a fact, in this MML business a person will work hard. It isn’t easy. They allow voice recorders. Those who lease or buy big nice cars to show off are not being godly by living below their means and is the specific person’s error.
the amount of books,Cds, and products is achievable by anyone(a book a month=$25 max,MP3sa month=$40 for all of them downloaded,Comunikate=$40,Website=$50, and the products would of course equal the amount of a person’s PV goal averagely.So around the same as it is for a cell,internet service, and foods. Definitely achievable. I did this while working at toys R us by living properly.
Also as is told repeatedly you won’t make large $ just from retail. If someone lied to you that’s not WWDB or amways fault. That’s why you build a group and before that listen. Some IBO diamonds(usually double or higher) will explain what they can and have afforded. But a person just has to use a calculator and do the math. Either way a diamond income is still an income that will more than support a family and then some at a legally reported average of $627K. Even a platinum income is much higher than the average.
So be smart and this will make you money. Base ALL your decisions on complete facts. Otherwise all the flaws(based on previous comments that i have answered) will just make you quit for the wrong reasons.
John you drank all of the koolaid huh? Tell us how long you’ve been in the business? What is your pen level? Some of us here actually achieved a level if “success” and speak from facts. We were double eagle platinums and didn’t make even close to what you hear. I kept wondering when I was going drive a Lexus with a trunk full of cash like I saw all of the other platinums do. You’ll wake up one day and realize that you pissed away a good chunk of your life striving for that business that God has blessed.
Your argument in defense of Duncan fails on the basis of the “if it walks like a duck” proviso. Also, I can’t begin to take anyone seriously who bleats “you’ve got your facts all wrong!” but can’t provide a single reasonable example. I also stop taking people like this seriously the second they resort to the logical fallacy of the ‘appeal to religion’. Please leave the almighty out of the picture when you try to defend BS MLM pyramid scams – it’s an affront to God. Amway, Monavie…etc…these MLMs are pretty much all the same – 99%+ failure rates, a shocking abundance of horror stories, and a few materialistic a-holes and narcissistic borderline criminals pulling all the strings and holding all the cards. Wake up man!
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jhon from hawaii – Thanks for sharing! Your two cents changed my mind! I can see clearly now, all the money that I lost from the tool scam and overpriced products was just a figment of my imagination.
I used to think that this business was an awful business model based on the FACT that less than .05% of the people that build ever reach true financial success. boy…”I WAS WAAAAY OFFFF” Thanks for helping me come to my senses. (sarcasm intended)
Simple, people are dogpiling on Greg Duncan because he’s been exposed as a hypocrite and a liar. He was one of the diamonds who said people who made home loans were stupid because of the interest paid to the bank. He said diamonds pay cash for homes. He was lifted up by audiences for his financial acumen ane now we know he can’t manage his own finances despite a sizable income.
You can defend him all you want but those bankruptcy documents are public records of the State of Montana.
jhon says: God wants us all to be successful in any and all that we do exceedingly beyond what we can dream or imagine.
Most people would agree that God wants his people to prosper, but not by breaking His laws of lying, deceiving or manipulating for “anyones success”FACT.
jhon says: So if this business’s main principals help guide people to do that, then it is good.FACT. This was not learned from the business and was taught at many churches.
You contradict yourself here jhon, you say this business’s main principals to guide people to that, FACT and then you say it is not learned from the business and was taught at many churches, so which is it?
You are in ” a business to make a profit, right,FACT?
Churches have nothing to do with it.
jhon says: A person’s goal is to help everyone join them in going to heaven as one of Jesus children,
If this is “A person’s goal, then why wouldn’t you just take them to a Church where you know this is the goal? Instead of bringing them to ” A business where the objective is to make a profit, right? Would this be deceptive? Or has your business became a Church now?
jhon says: so if they have more fiances, godly teachings in and out of church, and have a passionate dream to help others, then instead of working(and allowing one’s wife to work under another man ungodly like),not having as much time to spend with one’s children, and having little to no cash to donate to(after tithes) they can spend as much time as they want with their loved ones, and helping others out by being able to give their time and cash to charities.
Don’t under estimate the intelligence of people who know when “their wife is working under another man ungodly like.” Very strange comment, I am pretty sure most people don’t need to be told what to do in this situation.
jhon, You obviously haven’t been in very long.
Aren’t you told to “listen to those who have done it?” “The best experience is the experience of others.” You can listen or heed to the warnings or not, your choice, maybe you should STOP,THINK, AND LISTEN.
You have not walked in my shoes, FACT.
We spent well over a decade “chasing a passionate dream, which was to help others”, Building thousands upon thousands of people in our group, spending all our time, money, and energy, totally plugged in, spent time away from children and family (that we will never get back) bought hundreds of thousands dollars worth of tools, all in the end to have it taken by the people who told us “we would have a passive, residual, ongoing, “b-type business, that was willable, as long as we brought the numbers to their system” FACT, because of greed and other things you are too naive to understand. So I find it Very Offensive, and ignorant on your part that you say “assume” and tell “half-truths.”
I need not prove anything to you, I know what my experience was.FACT
When you go do what we have, and experience what we did, then come back, I might listen and then I will know you are not just defending your position to shed light on what a great and Godly “business & system” you are doing while trying to earn a profit.
I am a very compassionate person and only share my experience because I would never want anyone to do what we did. You will never convince me my experience wasn’t real, FACT.
You have a right to build any business you choose to and wish you well in anything you do in life, I sincerely mean that. I am not a hateful person.
Maybe by a miracle you are taught to sell your product,(that is not what we were taught, we were taught to sell the system, FACT) you are in a product business to make a profit, correct? And if not, you are deceived and in turn are deceiving.
How much training do you need that tells you, you need more training to sell a product? Oh you will say, you need motivation, right? Well in the group I was in they told us no one could be motivated, you had to be self-motivated, but told you, you needed more system to keep you motivated. Doesn’t make any sense right, but there is ALOT OF MONEY IN MOTIVATING PEOPLE WHO CAN’T BE MOTIVATED.FACT
Use your common sense.
jhon, If you truly want to reach people for the kingdom of God,(don’t use that to make money in your business) take them to church or have a bible study. I believe there is alot of godly people with good intentions that believed they were helping people by bringing them into the buisness(that is where our hearts were) and also thought the Christian Principles were what people desired but when you really “see” what we have seen you would come to the same conclusion. I have witnessed some who questioned their faith because of the “leaders, that control the training systems” that didn’t walk that talk, when it came down to it, it was about the power and money, but then how could you possibly understand this, you never experienced it.
If you think people are just trying to get people to quit for the wrong reasons, or for the fun of it, or whatever you think, you really are clueless. Build til your hearts content, and if you ever do make it, I hope you come back and let us know that everything was done honestly.
That was not my experience.FACT
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Speak Your Truth;
You do have a very good explanation and reply as aurora has said. But I must also state that I never said any was lazy(from most of the comments it is easy to see all of you are not). But can you please explain how you spent so many thousands upon thousands on tools and how you did not make as much as it legally states. Or do you mean The amount made minus the amount you specifically spent on tools and products somehow wasn’t enough. How much and what were you spending on specifically?
Also when you say” because of greed and other things you are too naive to understand.” First what greed? Second what other things am I not aware of that you say you know but won’t explain?I am not greedy nor naive. Just explain in a complete clearly understandable way why specific you stopped. You say they took it away from you. How so? Don’t generalize it. I do see that you are a passionate person though who is trying to be very clear in what you believe.
And as far as bringing people to church. Our group has its own bible groups. I attend another group directly with our church as well. And its not all about cash that we bring people in. Lets put it this way. Our church members want to donate more, spend time more helping out the church, and/or both. They do a lot, but most of the time I see people in our business reach out to people more. Not for business mind you. But they are able to donate a lot of time and money. They attend almost as much events as my life group leaders and seeing them write out and give the checks to our pastor kinda helps too.
Also when people join our group, we try to bring them to church, let them choose to be with Jesus. And when I said”So if this business’s main principals help guide people to do that”, the “that” I meant was “God wants us all to be successful in any and all that we do exceedingly beyond what we can dream or imagine.” as its principals are, then obviously it is good. At least this is what we are taught. I know many people go off and do there own thing or as some of say “take advantage”. Like greg duncan, that is there decision. I’m not defending him or those who do take advantage, cause as we are told the system is not perfect. Nothing and no one is. So yes people can use the system in a negative way. Same as any other business or job. But as far as our group is concerned, we have brought people to the lord and can help a lot more than we would have otherwise.
Also, I have made and had lot of money outside of this business and inside. The money part I don’t care about! I repeat, I don’t care about! As long as it is doing what it was suppose to do as a system which it has. I’m here for the people and have learned all I know about the lord from my uplines which work perfectly with everything they teach at our churches(or any that I have visited). This may be specific to our groups but as far as WWDB, it works with their guidelines as well. Having a private group study with Paul Tsika and asking all these questions doesn’t hurt either.
So I just want to ask again, how did it not work specifically for you? How did you lose money? How did you work the business so well(meaning being C.O.R.E.) and not get the money, and save time eventually? Was it because your upline was not sticking to the system, you weren’t C.O.R.E., they told you to buy more tools,products than the system explains,etc. Because everyone here says they were at a high pin lv(i believe) but doesn’t explain why in detail they stopped. It’s those details I am after and would appreciate if you or more people would explain.
Otherwise…well what else is there to say. If you guys can’t explain that or say I wouldn’t understand or something else, then nobody wins. I’m open minded and ready to hear any and everything you guys have to say. If you can tell me how it doesn’t work in a way that is not only specific to you, then I’ll quit. But you better be very detailed. Thank you for reading this.
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Yes, let’s stay on track with this topic, which is about the WWDB Triple Diamond Greg Duncan bankruptcy proceedings from 2007.
aurora-Thank you, I feel your pain!
jhon :If you can tell me how it doesn’t work in a way that is not only specific to you, then I’ll quit. But you better be very detailed.
First off, I am not asking you to quit, that would have to be your decision, but your “better be very detailed” sounds like a threat and is rude and I really don’t owe you any explantion, and this site was designed to share the abuses of the “systems” which is why I share on here. I am not sure why you came here?
It would seriously take a book to explain all that you ask so I will try to be very brief.
Do you know that people make money off of the tools(profit-sharing?) If you do not know this then their is nothing you would understand.
I am not on here to explain about any multi-level, direct-selling, I do believe there is a moral issue with them and you would have to seek out the information yourself from the experts. Do you understand when there is bias, and would you seek information freely without fear of what your upline would say? If you are as open-minded as you say you are then I recommend you starting with the pyramid scheme alert site and do your homework. I still believe in people’s right to choose to do what-ever they choose to do, but I am adamantly against “hidden facts, secrets, cover-ups, that distort, distract, and deter from a person’s ability to make good, sound judgements. So now that I made that clear, and am not addressing “the business,” hence why I asked you if you know about the “system money.”
I know nothing about Greg Ducan, but I do know this. The “system and their abuses began along time ago, one only needs to read all the lawsuits and those who have explained them like Eric Shriebler’s book and many others that you might find to be enlightening and would probably answer 100% of your questions. That is the very reason people are on here with the passion, pain, and voice! I know no one on here personally or least I have not met anyone, who knows some could be from my team, but the point is: Why do you think all the stories seem the same?
I could address this, the way you are probably use to by “pointing you to the information, make sense?” Check out Rick Ross’s site, read Steve Hassan’s book and if you do would you tell your upline you are reading this and if not, Why not?What would be their reaction?
I am making a point here if you didn’t recognize it yet, this is the way the system’s, upline’s do when they want you to listen more, read more, and do more. Only I am pointing you to more information that no one would ever want you to read, and I believe for you to truly understand where I am coming from you would first need to do more of your own research.
Why do you suppose no one wants you to get information from other sources,(only info. they supply) especially experts and others that could answer your questions from those that have experienced these things?
There is no substitue for experience!
I am not trying to convince you of anything and can’t speak for what and how your system works but will say this with confidence. I have been to many Yager Conventions, in the beginning (even though our upline broke-off) they all taught the same things. So that is why everyone basically has the same experiences and can relate, even though we don’t know each others upline’s (very few differences although some are more extreme with the abuses.)
Now, we were in profit-sharing and were told that we are independant and have control of our own business with passive, residual, on-going, “b-type”, willable income for the rest of our lives” by bringing the numbers to their system. We did this! We earned this and also brought and helped thousands of people to their system, they ” mafia-style” tried to destroy our crediblity by going into our groups and de-edifing, slandering, and lying and then took our “profit-sharing” away so that we would not get what we earned. I explained this before and you must not understand that there is 2 different business that you are paid from. Again I tell you we were taught this is the main business and we complied (although we did buy from ourselves, but that is not the issue here.)One other thing and is the main thing why we left is because there was unethical, and immoral things that were being controlled by those who control the system, and we stood up to it and they in turn retailated and took our income.There was also an unlawful issue , that I will not explain in detail for you.
I feel I explained more than I had to for you. So you decide, I am not even going to get into the “religion, or church issues” we too had a great Pastor that was the top mentor but also has left the organization, ( I am not answering for his departure) among many, many other leaders and team office excutives. So if you think for a second you are independant, learn from our story. Has big leaders left your team without explanations? I would say that common sense would tell you this is a huge warning.
So good luck in your endeavour.
One last thing have you ever felt, in your gut, that anything has been wrong? From the bottom of my heart please listen and pay attention. Your group might be the one exception, but I am very doubtful when it comes to the MONEY and if you really are in a sales business, then that should be self explanatory and do just that!
Amthrax- I do appologize and stand corrected, I do get carried away and didn’t see your post til after I made the posting.
I think many of the tool-spouting pro people who post here do a good job themselves of invalidating their own claims. I often feel they are just posting to get a rise out of us and to make us spend time fashioning a lengthy response. I say keep your responses brief, to the point, and don’t waste too much time feeding these trolls.
Amthrax; Sorry I apologize too, I will keep this short and allow you people to discuss past endeavors of Greg Duncan.
Speak Your Truth;
Thank you for reply to my questions. And yes I know of the profit sharing. And no I did not mean to be offensive in any way, but to be as clear as possible. When I do something I want and get all the info possible and want complete answers, I ask very aggressively i guess. Anyways I did check out rick ross site and I already have known of lawsuits(My upline has told me a few so no hiding that already if yours did), and the rest seem to be quite biased but I will still read it. Other than that, the only question I have was how did they take away your profit sharing. If they did it illegally, why not go to court? If they did it legally but tricked you, then why not show proof of that and continue to tell others in a way that everyone can understand? I’m sorry that this did happen to you, but if this is repeatedly happening then why doesn’t anyone show us that? I only see post like yours saying they lost money but not specifically. Anyways I hope your doing good in whatever it is and that you prosper. I will try to find out how this is possible otherwise I cannot believe only words.
No proof b/c it’s impossible to pin anyone down. You go with the flow for a long time until you can’t take it anymore.
How long have you been building your biz C.O.R.E. (books, tapes, functions, show the plan, personal use, retail, accountability, amvox/kate?
Are you an Eagle or Double Eagle? If so, how long have you held it?
How many retail clinics have you held? (artistry skin care classes, vitamin classes, etc.) That on top of showing the plan 6 nights a week, getting 5 numbers a day, attending EVERY function/open, and, heaven forbid, holding down the dreaded full-time job to pay for all this shit, is what has us boiling.
It is you, jhon, who needs to answer questions.
aurora;
So basically instead of answering the question, you flip it to me. hmmm, this is why people continue discussing these topics because both sides don’t equally give up information with a source or evidence. And how is it impossible to show this information. Out of the thousands of people, how can not one of you have evidence!? The answer is you do have evidence but are not willing to actually show it online(for which no one could understand) or parts of what you say are lies/part of what you say has a reason why you can’t show it(which would be nice to explain).
I’m not trying to be offensive in any way to you, but that is all you can comprehend from what you wrote. I believe you are telling the truth, but all it is, is you saying I lost all this time and didn’t make anywhere near the money that is legally stated on the trades commission approved plans. I would support you if any of you could actually show this(which should be possible, by everyone of you).
There has to be some form of evidence. Somehow even in greg duncans information there has to be something on how profit sharing can be “taken away” or how you don’t make enough cash. If you were a platinum making say about 60k as shown in the plan about 10 years ago(as an example), can you tell me did you make that much, and if not, how come? If you did everything you were suppose to to reach platinum parameters, then why now go to court or show your amount you make vs what it says? Can’t you do that now?
All i want is to hear your sides of the story fully. I’m not a troll and I just want to know why. Is that too much to ask? NO! Cause otherwise, it would be all these post that continues arguments on discussions over and over. Because they would all say we have no evidence, you wouldn’t understand, your naive,your brainwashed,etc,etc,etc, instead of just telling us why. So why not break the cycle and explain away. like speak the truth did very well explaining, I am still “all ears” to what you have to say. thank you for reading.
Also on a side note in one of your previous comments, you can bring in recorders at the four major and all normal functions. Just not events like for nutrilite.
jhon-
I have to agree with Amthrax and Aurora, You are seemingly more dishonest to me and asked you a whole slue of questions you didn’t answer (no need to answer now). I gave you enough information to check out for weeks (books, websites, etc.) and you say you are open minded,”checked it out” and a couple lawsuits(there are alot more than “a couple”) you knew about your upline told you, so no secrets there, and the rest was bias.
Why don’t you go to your upline and ask ALL about their profit-sharing(if they share) how anyone could possibly “take it away”, who has control, is there a contract they are bound to. Good luck with that! That is what is relevant to you, anyway, right?.
In my case; yes contract but one Big Problem, we weren’t allowed to read it! Imagine that, them Honest, Christian, Godly men who are Pure in Heart, Character and Integrity and ‘had our best interest @ heart”!!!!
Unless you were gonna quit and go over to the system I was involved , it’s irrelevant besides I’m sure your upline is much more honest.
You obviously came here to add alittle of “your own view” and bash MonaVie (not that I care) but you obviously are not listening to your system. You obviously don’t have a big enough “dream or team yet” to draw profit from the BIG pot of TOOL MONEY. It’s too bad I would have shared all our secrets on how to get thousands of people but I was taught not to cross-line!
jhon, Don’t give up, Stay fired up, stay away from naysayers and 95%er’s, spend 7 nights a week (away from your loved ones) for lets say 2-5 years, and if you’re not in profit-sharing by then, Don’t give up “WE BELIEVE
IN U!(by the way great movie for you, I bet you will relate),if you haven’t suceeded by then, just don’t give up, check up-line,re- set your goals, just do it another 2-5 years, Do and Be exactly like your upline even if they fall into sin and don’t forget,the secret is the system!
Now again I have to appologize to Amthrax, for getting off topic, again, but you can celebrate, I did see there is another site I can go to that would be specific to our experience and then it will be easier for me to stay on “topic” LOL. Sorry, Amthrax
Keep up the good fight, you too aurora and all the rest.
jhon,
I really hope you do the research, and not just skim and breeze over it, review the book recommendations. Otherwise, you have to ask yourself “What am I afraid of?”
Go to your upline with your questions, seems obvious that is all who you will listen to, that’s okay, your choice.
Sincerely, if I knew you personally, I would show you my tax records and teams for the last decade +(the proof you seek) but I don’t, so guess you’ll have to take my word for it or not. I am sorry if I sound harsh but I have nothing else I can offer you.
You might be better off joining your upline’s or someone else’s site to spread your good news.
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well as nice as people are at our church or in Amway, I have been around some of the darkest people in my distance past. So I know manipulators easily. Now I’m not saying you guys are, but of course some people could make this up. What I like doing though is understanding people though. How they work etc. Also,I never said or implied either that you guys were bored,had no lives, were lying.
Like I said, I want to know.I WANT TO KNOW. In no way am I dishonest. Lets put it simply. If I know what actually happened to all of you, then we can state that as a fact to everyone. Speak your truth finally gave an answer that was relevant(the contract), instead of just stating that at first which would be so much simpler. But I hope you do know in order to sign a legal contract, you must read it. Otherwise, that could be reported right away to the authorities. If every single person who had profit sharing had the same situation happen to them, then why doesn’t any report it. WW would have been caught by now, and if they have for small lawsuits(to them) then I will keep reading from your sites to find it(which I am and have been doing).
Basically it comes down to this. For those like me who are actually interested in knowing the truth, we look. I am looking, but if you can’t even give me one practical piece of evidence or can’t even show a lawyer/authorities, then why continue writing on these post? Why not be more productive and actually work towards gathering together all your information instead of just talking negative and not having anything to back it up with. And to make it clear so any of you don’t reply seeming offended as some have sarcastically, I mean no offense to any of you. Also when I say information to back you up, I mean actually documents,legal, printed out explaining why the WWDB system is illegally a fraud, in example you not making as much as it said on the FTC documents,contracts for profit sharing,etc. Otherwise it is just hearsay and there is no way that information like this is not known and provable from thousands of people who experienced it. How can that be possible?
Either way regardless if you give a new source to check out or some verifiable information, I hope you guys do well in whatever you are doing.
jhon,
You really need to go back and read your first post when you came on here defending, the guy, business and system then accusing others for not having facts,assuming & telling half truths.
Amthrax gave you plenty of the facts on topic, him and many others backing those facts with what they know this guy taught and his hypocrisy.
His talk didn’t match his walk, as is the case with all our situations.
So you will have to forgive people for being angry and sarcastic because they were screwed over and gave years of their lives away,listening to liars, by these people, that you choose to defend.
The “system is the secret” because it is how they indoctrinate, control and get you to think, “just like them.”
I totally believe it is a cult and that is the reason why I refered you to all the information that you could not have possibly read, that is why I said I felt you were dishonest, YOU DECIDE!
So all the “details of facts” you strive to get doesn’t matter, nor will you ever believe them until you either have experienced it like all who speak out; or educated yourself on what we already know to be true.
Many people have turned the abuses in, and so far it is business as usual,
( I am aware somethings are changing)but the abuses of “the systems” have gone on for decades, because where there is money & power, their is most of the time corruption.
So it is simple, when the facts are there you don’t acknowledge them or you say it is just 1 guy who made the mistake (which we are telling you it is common practice), defend or make excuses why it isn’t “the business” when you know damn well they represent the business, do your research, ask your upline about “your profit-sharing”, check the responses see if it fits.
So if you don’t want to believe or first figure out that you are in a cult and how they work. Nothing else matters!
I only came back here because I do believe you are seeking, and I do care about people, but if this is not the place you can get your answers, then you should go else where instead of coming here to dishonor other’s knowledge and facts, of their experiences.
Good luck, I hope you find what you are looking for.
jhon,
BTW- the contract, you really don’t get it. They wrote up the contract, tricked us into signing it, during a seminar by having staff come get people by rows when the speakers were on stage speaking, halled us into a room, gave us 5 minutes to sign (gave the impression they were in a hurry because they had to get everybody their to sign it or we wouldn’t get paid) and after signing we assumed they would send us a copy and when asked they told us no they wouldn’t and we asked in writing to get it they said ” they are excercisng their rights” we could drive to view it though (many hours away but that is was their proprietary information),voided out the old contract, came up with a new one, then wanted us to drive several hours to a seminar to sign the new one, “because they were going to a “voting from peers, like a law firm based on Honor & Class” all after they STOLE our earned profit-sharing and gave to it to I suppose our Diamond,( thought they were for EARNING IT, LIARS, sounds socialistic to me) knowing this was our sole income that we were living on!
So, I never stated as you said we never made any money. And that people, is exactly how you spend hundreds of thousands of dollars in tools because you have to supply thousands to sustain your team! ( and eat thousands because they become obsolete, repeatedly)
There is no one policing them, they are a private LLC, and unless you are willing to send me ten grand (just to start), or you yourself would like to sue them yourself, feel free! But remember they are the one’s with millions and don’t forget you will probably tie your life up for many more years!
Yep, That is the “Orrin Woodward & Team Policy Council Profit-sharing!”
That Honest, Honorable, Godly, Christian Men & Women, Pure of Heart, Character & Integrity, You know the number 1 best seller of “Leadership”, The Top 10 Guru, that (screwed over many big leaders) don’t forget “Have Fun, Make Money & Make a Difference!” Whom when he goes to heaven God is going to say “Well done my good and faithful servant!”( he has said that many times, incinuating that is what he wants to hear)
Whom I fear God for them and their wifes , because I wouldn’t want to answer for the wake of destruction and those lives he tried to destroy!
So there jhon, digest that for awhile! But don’t ever try and dishonor my experience and ignore the facts!
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Thank You and like your:
These little idiotic minons come on here and attempt to get us to see the light, and defend the defenseless.
This is true but sad, I hate seeing another person getting wasted on the indoctrination and false prophets.
Does anyone know where Greg Duncan is living these days?
In California near LA somewhere….a good friend of mine occasionally goes for walks with them.
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Aurora~
You are dead on and have noticed the fairly new ‘negative’ name, (how dare them be so negative-hypocrites) they like to call us is ‘haters.’ We are just ‘quitters’ and that is why we didn’t make it, LOL
How self-serving is that bullsh*t, just like all con’s they need someone to withdrawl from their bank accounts of time and money to donate and deposit into theirs so they can live a fake existence and flaunt what they took from others!
Just as you mentioned, when you dump the scammers: you then have the time and money to do the real things you always wanted to! Life is Good, when you are working and giving everything up, for dic tator’s.
Meant to say when you ARE NOT working and giving everything in your life, for the dictators.
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“I believe Greg is a decent human being deep down”
I wonder about this. This man has been living high on the hog by deceiving people for maybe 20 years or more. This guy stood on stage and told people they were stupid if they had a mortgage or took out loans from the bank. This man was one of the group of diamonds who taught “do whatever it takes” to get to that next function. In my own crossline group, I witnessed IBOs do bankrupt and/or lose their homes following this kind of advice. I don’t think he is evil, but his actions are far from pure in my opinion.
Does anyone know if Greg Duncan is still speaking at the major functions?
Greg duncan does still speak at the functions, and I believe all of you have misunderstood the message that they give. You are free to go and live your life the way you choose, you can help who you choose if you choose to. You can also earn the money that you choose. All they are doing is providing you with a way of doing it. In order to follow the way they are providing, you have to actually do what they suggest doing. A major part of the business is building yourself as a person. They do say do whatever it takes because there is so much to gain from them, if you are willing to look for what you can get out of them, and I doubt that the few hundred dollars it cost for the function was what caused bankruptcy, I bet the hundreds of financial decisions had nothing to do with it. I believe that in order for the business to work you have to look at it honestly and realize that it takes a lot of hard work, and they certainly don’t sign people up in masses, that is not what is taught in this business, There is actually an interview process because not everyone qualifies. So whomever was doing so was doing it on their behalf and not amways, as anyone in the business would know, you are the owner of your own company that sell products distributed by amway, no IBO is “in” amway. Just like costco isn’t “in” frito lay, they simply are provided a product and they sell it to a customer.
evolution23-
You can pay to take business advice from people who teach one thing yet do another and go bankrupt … but you probably could save the hundreds a month and just ask a bum on the street for advice.
Justify all day, you’re only trying to protect because you think you’re someday going to scratch your lotto ticket too. You don’t, and won’t, make money standing up for people that are ripping you off. But it’s your life, good luck.
PS – basic business requires you to compare your costs to revenue … have you done that lately?
Greg Duncan’s bankruptcy was significant for various reasons:
1. He is not the financial genious that he is portrayed as.
2. He made 500K from Amway – a nice income, but not what rank and file IBOs would believe about a triple diamond’s income.
3. Despite all of his “wealth”, he was still not content.
4. Greg’s faithful disciples believe that his bankruptcy was fabricated despite the fact that the State of Montana had public documents available.
5. His crown ambassador brother did not or could not help him out despite being “uber” wealthy.
6. Greg is still speaking at functions. I wonder what he is teaching? I’ve been following the blog of a current WWDB IBO and it sure looks like the teaching now is exactly the same as when I was an IBO ober 12 years ago.
Bottom line: Greg was and is a liar. I know that’s harsh but it’s a fact.
We were platimuns in Brads business for a few years and I remember on two occasions in exclusive night owls Brad talking sh** about many leaders including and especially Greg.
Would you mind sharing the blog you follow? Because wwg was 10 years of my life I like to see where it is today compared to when I was in.
Ken, here’s the blog:
http://expeditionoftruths.com/
Basically, WWDB, despite claims to the contrary, is teaching almost exactly the same stuff now as they did more than 12 years ago. For example, I hear get out of debt, buying homes in cash, dream building, 2% divorce rate, fastest growing LOS. The author seems like a nice enough guy but he is in hook, line and sinker.
This might be interesting to follow:
http://expeditionoftruths.com/2010/08/27/lindsay-now-free/
“It’s going to be a great year coming up and we are speaking my freedom late Fall 2011 when we hit Double Eagle Ruby. That’s the next goal and that’s when the big retirement party will happen. When I retire is when it will really sink in for some people because there will be no more J.O.B. income, the income will be 100% Amway Global and that will be the largest impact. “
A recent comment from Ty Tribble’s blog:
http://amwayblog.com/wwdb-brad-duncan-talks-about-his-brother-greg-duncans-bankruptcy/
Besides, even though a majority of their income is from “tool” sales (which new IBOs only pay into, never get out from) you have to ask yourself if it’s even enough then … ask a triple diamond named Greg Duncan, he had access to everything and couldn’t even withstand going bankrupt.
So basically a triple diamond in WWDB is no different than Joe Blow down the street as far as business and money knowledge go.
A site visitor to my blog recently emailed me a PDF of a legal document (from pacer) that basically stated that Mr. Duncan’s Sarshela interests, listed at 36 million dollars is grossy overstated and that Mr. Duncan was offered half a million for his interest in the company.
It explains, at least to my satsifaction, why I believe Mr. Duncan could not simply liquidate and pay off his creditors. If I get any more updates, I may post a follow up story on my blog.
Does anyone have access to the audio clip from Greg Duncan where he talks about reading the bathroom wall of the Internet and specifically says “Toby from Tacoma”? I pretty sure it’s on the original private franchising in a dotcom world cd but I only have the latest version. I’m putting together a project that you all will love. Having this sound bite would help me so much. Let me know. Thanks!
Ken, check the Amquix info site by Scott Larsen. He may have the clup on his site.
lol poor broke lost souls . so caught up in the past move on in life. who cares if the toal cost is 150 per month for everyting including tools. and i personally know 8 couples that built the bussiness and got free in under 2yrs and have all the time in the world to spend with their families. everything i read on here was hilarious if you cannot afford that little fee a month then you yourself have made some critical finacial errors in yourlife time and obviously know nothing in what it takes to keep ahead in this world. who cares about what greg dunccan did live your own life not his, this bussiness is awsome and is already helping me and my wife semi retire at age 26. WHAT A BAD BUSSINESS MODLE DAMN YOU AMWAY AND WWDB, for giving me and my wife all the rest of our lives to live with residual income for the rest of our lives and all this for a low cost of 150 a month DAMN YOU!!!!!
( NOT!!!) have fun J.O.B ppl i know i well lol ,
and if you couldent afford that much put the bottle down and open your eyes .
and as for you ppl that were lied to or tricked thats brutal we dont teach that and werent tricked so thats was only you so dont speak for every1 on your bad upline bringing.
who cares if you gotta pay for tools and then in return get paid thousands of dollars a month hhhhmmm am i missing something here how do i lose again? and for you that spend all this time in building the bussiness 24/7 7 days a week you gotta learn how to manage your time better or you were just really bad at explaing the bussiness modle and how mlm actually work. oh ya 1 more thing QUITTERS
thanks amway-
Have you ever read “Merchants of Deception” by Eric Scheibeler?
It’s a fantastic read…..you should try it sometime.
Your defense is so weak and straight out of the AMO scripted play book, (that means ‘all the uplines use it) that you have to resort to name calling? I would highly doubt you have a big team, your ‘attitude’ and lack of ‘leadership’ would make it evident. It is the typical response though; regardless, of who your upline is. Doesn’t matter if it is Orrin Woodward, or anyone else, they have all been groomed by the ‘same’ system and use the same lies.
It seems you are very defensive and angry that others have had negative experiences and and are sharing that truth or their view is polar opposite of yours; because of their experiences. Why would that be? That doesn’t make people..”poor broke lost souls” who are “QUITTERS”…those lies are as old as Amway’s dirt and no one believes them, so could you get a little more creative next time…lol
You say: “am i missing something here how do i lose again?” I believe you are missing the whole wall of wax. You never mention the ‘attrition rate’, ‘the comp plan,’ ‘exspenses…profit vs loss’..How much have you ‘lost?’ You know.. the real business indicators…so you have ‘missed’ the whole ball of wax or the rest of the story. Not to mention the lies, deception and all spoon fed garbage you obviously believe.
You and your wife may not be losing; that is IF (big IF) you are in the top 1% or less, but all those people you have brought in and on your team..How much have they ‘lost?’.. They MUST lose…for you to brag and be so arrogant about your gains.
Now that you have so much free time Amway lover, perhaps you can sharpen up on your skills of the English language so we can understand the jibberish you post. For God’s sake man!!
“and for you that spend all this time in building the bussiness 24/7 7 days a week you gotta learn how to manage your time better or you were just really bad at explaing the bussiness modle and how mlm actually work.”
I’m sure your incoherent a$$ can explain the business model better than the triple 100 and round table members that post on this blog. Yeah, right! lmao 😉
@Thanks Amway, You are a genius, keep doing what you are doing.
Thanks all, you’ve given me a good laugh this morning, i’m personally building this business model. I love how everyone talks about money they have “lost” in this business. I personally haven’t lost a dime, i purchase the same products i did before i became involved, i just buy from a different supplier. Aas for money “wasted” on tools, I have spent a bit but i have personally grown more in the last eight months than I did in the last eight years since i graduated from high school. I did attend post secondary and I did sucessfully complete my program with a decent GPA. I know there are some people out there who haven’t lived the same life as me, I have seen far too many people who can benefit just from the personal growth that can come from being around the positivity that flows through this business. I have never heard anyone in this business ever put someone down who is building this business, yet you walk around and listen to people and “friends” do nothing but put each other down, because it is “funny” to laugh at your friends. guess i’ll just keep building this thing and growing myself.
@working life, obviously you are another genius as well. Keep doing what your doing and report back from time to time. Good luck with your personal growth program.
Greg Duncans bankruptcy is due to projects out side of the wwdb business and he probably didnt councel about it with his upline.
Haha, I’m laughing here too. When my ex and I were in WWDB (Amway/Quixtar) Greg and Laurie Duncan were held up as a shining example of how to build a successful, inflation-proof, CASH business. They were the invited guests of my diamond (Theron/Darlene Nelson) at untold Leaderships and Family Reunions, and on the calendar for many Dream Nights. They spoke at every Free Enterprise Day along with the Puryears and the Britts. So now Greg Duncan gets to join the growing group of WW big pins who are fallible, criminal and still speak about how the Dream works. That is so not funny!
btw, my blog about WWDB is here: Jane’s Quixtar Story http://www.amquix.info/jane‘s_quixtar_story.html
I have been reading for a while and if i am to be honest both sides have spoken some truth. I find it interesting however how easily things which dont support what is being argued is side stepped and instead there is the name calling. Not to mention the misinformation
Have yo’ll noticed how commercial cultists show up here and condescendingly assume everybody on here has a Jaay Ohhh Bheee and that somehow that’s committing the ultimate sin that’s a sure ticket to devil’s hell? Neither are real business owners nor even retirees spared from this tired, worn out, recycled, asinine MLM froth by these pretend business owners, MLMbots.
If this be the gospel truth version according to MLMers, I sure hope the devil is expanding his hell place cause it seems to me I will be in the company of multitudes.
I will gladly sign up devil, no need to contact, stp, follow up and follow thro’ with me, nor tricks, deceieve, manipulate or bait’n’switch on me-I know both deals, MLM and yours and I would rather your deal so just sign me up. “He was ready already!” will be my rally story (I couldn’t help that one guys ;-). Sorry but no sorry god of mlm and your brainwashed disciple stooges.
Yea isn’t it funny, there is probably a 99% chance they have a Jay Ohhh Bhee! Even the TOP have a Jay Ohhh Bhee, just not a legitimate one, imo. And from our experience the MLM Jay Ohhh Bhee is way less pay, with way more exspenses and Wayyy more time!…no comparisson. I say stick with your real Jay Ohhh Bhee, anything would be more noble and less sinful, than fleecing the multitudes.
They all have a jobs, (including the Top) because there is no such thing as ‘retirement’ from the MLM fleecing job, they ought to be thankfull others; 99% have a real jobs because who else would they perpetrate the money circulating scheme and collect from?
Someone has to donate to the bottomless money pit of the scam that funnels back to the TOP so they can fool the bottom into believing they can be the Top..ha! It is quite the vicious cycle. You must fight the odds and get the ‘special deals’ and need many, many thousands to be fleeced to ‘claim’ you have No supposed.. Jay Ohhh Bhee.
It is crystal clear which of the 2, is the evil one, based on my opinion and years of experience.
Speak, love your last post here. This is obvious and hilarious truth,
“They all have a jobs, (including the Top) because there is no such thing as ‘retirement’ from the MLM fleecing job, they ought to be thankfull others; 99% have a real jobs because who else would they perpetrate the money circulating scheme and collect from?
Someone has to donate to the bottomless money pit of the scam that funnels back to the TOP so they can fool the bottom into believing they can be the Top..ha! It is quite the vicious cycle. You must fight the odds and get the ‘special deals’ and need many, many thousands to be fleeced to ‘claim’ you have No supposed.. Jay Ohhh Bhee.”
I am laughing.
@Speak
“MLM fleecing job”
so true and soooo hilarious! You didn’t dance with words there!
Brent~
There is much pleasure in seeing you laugh! 🙂
exambot~
An even more bodacious title, none the less truthful of course, would be; MLM Top- Bottom Feeders Job. Now I am aware …that there dance… would need a highly cautious disclaimer because it would be the equivalent; to a dance with a bull in a china shop. Sometimes the music calls for such. 🙂
I had to laugh at all the people who associate Amway and Greg Duncan as one,they are two completely different topics for one Amway is a very successful business that was Not built by Greg Duncan. So getting some facts straight are you all pissed because you used great products or because you found out that a man who was successful could have a flaw in his own life? Or maybe you are unhappy because some people you know dare to take steps to improve there lives, just because you didn’t thought it would be a good idea to rag on others miss fortunes? The truth is it doesn’t matter what you do in life weather it’s selling products or holding a job if you don’t even look at hopes or dreams,goals what is your life worth to you is it to work and die or live and enjoy? Positive mentorship is not a bad thing and there is not one person I have ever met who haven’t been a hypocrit once in there life time. The funny thing is many people typing the negatives are the same people who are having similar problems in there own lives have it be bankruptcy or alcohol,drugs addiction even depression and I am not trying to knock anyone but if we embraced life with open arms and quit blaming other people for the outcome. You choose your life and what is in it so maybe Greg isn’t perfect but your not either.
corrine~
What I think is funny is your many ‘loser’ assumptions. I doubt you will find anyone who is opposed to “bettering oneself”, that attempted jab is as old as Amway.
As a matter of fact all of your cheep shot assumptions are as old as Amway…save them for the gullible.. we have all used them! But good luck with “bettering yourself”
Do you plan on “bettering yourself” through a AMO and is Greg Duncan at the helm of that system? Bet he is proud of you.
I was in Amway in the early 80’s and just out of high school making $3.50 an hour. After showing it to my boss I was out of work within a week. My MLM business went nowhere. Probably had a net loss of about $500 before I realized how unsuited I was for the sales business. Yea, it was about 75% scam. But I don’t regret it. I learned some valuable lessons that paid off years later. The biggest lesson was the idea of what they called a permanent income (passive income). I put that idea to work by investing in real estate, stocks and bonds. There was also this concept that a person didn’t have to work everyday for someone else as long as they could produce income. Then there was this show of ridiculous greed that turned me off to the materialistic treadmill that Americans have been sold on. Also learned how religion and patriotism can be used as tools in order to influence the masses. Telling us what to do, what to wear, what to eat, what to drive, what to believe and what to think. I can remember standing in line for what seemed like hours outside some colosseum type building in Portland with thousands of other greedy sheep like me, waiting to be let in so we could drink from the cup of knowlege. I remember doing the math on the “standing order” tapes and other tools like rallies and seminars. I learned how important good communication skills are (not that mine are that great, but they are improved from those days). Also learned a lot about how to detect B.S. So for $500 and about 6 months of my life I think I got more than my money’s worth of education.
@John
Thanx for sharing. I smiled a likin’ @ the way you look at your experience. Sadly plenty others cannot say it just as handsomely after costs of 10, 20, 30k+, time (2, 5, 10+ yrs) and/or relationships like marriage disintegration, etc., while this info. could be had for freely at any most local libraries or perhaps cheaper from bookstores (and without stifling critical thinking.) BTW good going there spotting B.S. sooner than later.
You guys are raining all over my new IBO parade. I just returned from my first 125 dollar Free Enterprise function and my “something is not right here” radar was going off the entire visit.
Now I’ve found this thread.
@new – Keep track of your incomes and expenses and look beyond the hype at the meetings and major functions.
New- You will thank the members of this blog later. I know I did/do.
@New, I’d like to know what your upline will say if you mention this article. I;ve seen IBOs completely deny and claim this is fabricated even though there are publicly available documents for review.
@New: welcome to the thread my friend. If you want to know anything about the Amway compensation plan and how much you can expect to earn watch the videos on orrin woodwards “business opportunity” called life.
Life’s comp plan is almost a carbon copy of amways, yes, the company orrin called a pyramid. It has a little different ratio (25 to 1) but the structure is virtually the same.
A big difference though, is that Amway actually has some decent products. I just wouldn’t try to get “free” doing what “they” are teaching…..
@New Said,
“You guys are raining all over my new IBO parade. I just returned from my first 125 dollar Free Enterprise function and my “something is not right here” radar was going off the entire visit. Now I’ve found this thread.”
Hardly our specialty (to rain all over your new IBO parade). I don’t wish to belabor you with what you already have a queasy feelin for but I will tell ya what I have learned, that when the wise are a talkin hung your ears low n listen. Stick around, keep reading and welcome on board!
Hello….I was in the Duncan downline in 1993 when it was Really Moving! Sad to hear that Diamonds make money from tool sales. Met a lot of nice people. Learned how to be positive. I have many fond memories of rallies. Amway as a company is a very good company. It is the big distributors and their downlines such as WWDB and the whole Britt group that is the problem. These people are human and do make mistakes but their arrogance over the years have made them monsters.
None is the better devil. ScAmway turns a blind eye to the monsters shenanigans, after all they are responsible for all that bacon. The monsters know they now operate from a position of power and will do as they please. In the end only the MLM fluff – scAmway – adherent AKA IBO, is still and the only one getting ripped in this game. No thank you scAmway is not any better.
One thing that concerns me is the (apparent) lack of action by Amway. I keep hearing about how Amway is new, accredited, etc. But it’s not that hard to find compelling evidence that some leaders (such as G. Duncan) continue to teach (and profit) from the same unethical stuff that they taught many years ago. While Amway apologists deny it, saying it’s different these days, the evidence suggests otherwise.
@ Joecool.
How did you NOT make money being at a Platinum level for 4 years?? They teach that a Platinum affects 100 IBOs.
Wow!!
Such a conversation over just a couple humble people in this world. Well I’ll Admit That I’m A Little Late To The Conversation But, Any How No Need To Lose Sleep Over Brad’s Financial Affairs, I Asure You Bud LOL. And Don’T Worry The Puryears And Every One Is Doing Just Fine…. I See You Got Some Of Our Lables Up There, I’m Sure You Have A Copy Right Releas From Us ( Private, Trademarked Lables). Well Have Fun In The Rat Race!!!!
@wondering,
I was not a platinum. I was at 4000 PV. I did not make money because our “mentors” strongly encouraged us to reinvest all profits into more tools.
If you guys spent half as much time researching what actually happened with Mr. Duncan, as you did bashing wwdb, you might be more informed. And if you spent a quarter of that time building free enterprise, you might end up successful in this life and your kids wouldn’t be looking up to parents in a dead end atmosphere. I started less than 6 months ago, and I am now retired from your glorious rat race and making 7,000 a month, going platinum in 2 months. You apparently let your own life and business become stagnant rather than having built it. STOP TALKING CRAP AND BUILD YOURSELF FOR YOUR FAMILY!!!
Joseph, we did research and apparently, Mr. Duncan filed chapter 7 bankruptcy. There are public records confirming this. Are you denying it actually happened? Even with a large income, it looks like Mr. Duncan got greedy and overextended his limits.
Amway is not free enterprise. Where did you get that idea? Amway owns you.
I don’t believe for a second that you have been in Amway for 6 months and make $7000 a month. That’s utter BS
Malachy Smith, what do you think about a triple diamond going bankrupt? Greg Duncan isn’t as wealthy as you though huh?
People with adequate funds do not file for chapter 7.
WTH you talking about? What by your definition is a “normal person”?
Tapes/ CDs. What are you talking about?
Amway/WWDB was pimping tapes when I was in Amway. Obviously technology changes so now they sell an equivalent of what tapes used to be.
I wonder if Greg owns a home these days?
Where did Brad & Julie get all the cash for the multimillion dollar penthouse, the yacht, the jet, the Ferrari, the lake home, the Bentley and the lambo? (From tapes & CDs? 🤔)
Well, if the tapes/cds and functions account for half of their income, then the answer islikely yes.
😂😂🤣 SERIOUSLY dude. Lay off the pipe! NOBODY bought a Bentley or a yacht off selling tapes or CDs (Except maybe Grant Cardone or Tony Robins).
Duncan makes MILLIONS a year in checks from Amway.
End of argument n
So can you supply proof of all these millions made off of tapes & CDs?
How about a Dateline expose showing the Amway tool scam?
http://www.nbcnews.com/id/4375477/ns/dateline_nbc-consumer_alert/t/pursuit-almighty-dollar/#.WxW4zPkvwdU
😂🤣🤣🤣. Dude you really that desperate? This story is like 20 years old.
Why not quite 60 idiots or Donohue?
Dude, what has changed since 2004? Did WWBD stop holding functions and selling tools?
Costs actually went down with digital download and a reduced schedule of meetings.
Ok, so some costs went down if what you say is true. That doesn’t improve the business model or the fact that diamonds might make a lot of their “riches” from the sale of tools and business support materials.
Actually they’ve made lot of improvement to the business model, including one new change in the PV/BV started this month
Also an increase from 4% to 6% on platimum legs.
And currently offer free shipping.
How are any of these changes helpful to the rank and file distributors. You know, people like yourself for example?
#1) market based pricing
#2) changed PV/BV ratios to be more even across the products line and to be more profitable
#3) changed the “10 customers” rule to 50 PV (so even weakling like you or I can qualify ).
#4) fast track bonus system.
Helps new IBOs by paying hem bonus at 160 PV 300 PV and for establishing other ibos in their organization who do the same
(* These are HUNDREDS every month in addition to any retail profits or PV checks )
Direct fullfillment & free shipping. Clients now order off the site and product ships to them. FREE shipping on qualified orders. You get the retail pofit in the mail .
Ditto delivery. No more product pick up.
Dude YOUR chances? Are ZERO!!
It’s guys like you who make up the 99%
Those are some good changes if they are as you say. But it still has not resulted in some kind of explosion of growth for Amway. Amway’s revenues have tanked in the last 4 years to now.
Actually there HAD been explosive growth in North America. Double digits increase as of 2 years ago.
And most of those new changes take effect this month BTW (like the more even PV/ BV across product lines so people can shop what they like & NOT justfor PV/BV)
Free shipping for customer now.
The fast track was added couple years ago and the 6% off platinum Legs ststedd in September.
Mmm. Not really. Function attendance has doubled. lv leadership had to book a larger arena. They exceeded capacity of the previous venue. Bakers got their own family reunion.
(So I know you been hiding under a rock for the last 20 years or talking sh## on the internet, meantime people who weren’t even IN when you FAILED at 4000 are double Diamonds or going EDC)
What explosive growth? When I was in Amway, there were 15,000 people at family reunion.
How many are attending now? Obviously it cannot be much more since Amway’s revenues are down and the number of IBOs has not grown much.
You were never “in” Amway. Only the platinums get to tour the building and be “in amway”. Sadly, you quit just short of that and took all your team with you. Pretty poor track record don’t you think?
Nope, my track record is stellar because once we quit, my downline stopped losing money.
Great. So you all QUIT together. (so did you pay your downline back for all the money you scammed off them & made them “lose”?, Mister ethics. )
What money did I make them lose? It was WWDB and the diamonds that were scammer and lied that they made nothing off tools and functions.
YOU got em into it? (* And YOU made money off their 4000 PV!!)
So did you refund all the money they “lost”?
Why? Do diamonds refund money for people who quit?
Diamonds aren’t hypocrites like you who complained “people losing money” while you’re the one who got them all involved & made money off them
Dude you’re so blind to your own wrongdoings.
Right. Blame the victim and the real hucksters get a pass from you.
Laughable.
I wonder how you’ll feel when you eventually quit?
Greg Duncan was a hypocrite. Taking out loans while teaching that loans are stupid because the banks make you pay interest.
🙂
First of all there’s good use of debt and bad use of debt.
Second of ALL he had to mortgage his properties to pay off the cost of a lawsuit surrounding XS and his ownership in it AND (you don’t know what other business investments he might have mortgaged his poperties for!) And to pay off retroactive back taxes.
He had interest only loans. I assume he did so because he was probably trying to flip houses. Funny since Greg used to teach that you make so much from Amway that you really don’t need any other investments. Plus he taught how stupid it wad to take out any loans. So he’s essentially a liar and a hypocrite.
Actually, stupid, it’s a REQUIREMENT to have minimum custome volume (so. Did you have ten customer orders per month? (Probably NOT since all you do is complain how you allegedly “lost money”)
As Ron Puryear taught he got 25 customers from the first 20 people who said no to the opportunity. (and that’s how it works!)
I can spend $200-300 at Safeway buying stuff I need or I can MAKE $360 a month buying wholesale and having 3-4 customers in my business every month. (I guess you FAILED that intelligence test did you? )
My customers asked me for the XS (including the GM at my job where I used to work) and the meal replacement shake’s and referred me a customer looking for the Glister toothpaste because he did not like created or Colgate.
(So was I “losing money” by allowing those customers to buy from me? )
We were taught in night owls that customers were not out focus because customers buying a few things would not make you rich. You wanted downline “buying from themselves”.
This was WWDB teaching whether you like it or not.
“”” I can MAKE $360 a month buying wholesale and having 3-4 customers in my business every month. “”””
I don’t believe you.
That’s the model. I’ve run the numbers. Dulpicate that and end up with over $10,000 a month.
Sure. Just find 10,000 customers and make $10 from each of them each month and you make $100,000 a month.
Easy peasy – but it doesn’t happen in Amway.
Duh you’re not supposed to to get “10,000 customers”. (pretty obvious you MISSED the whole point and purpose of DUPLICATION)
Most Amway IBOs do little or nothing and quit in less than a year. How do you get duplication out of people who mostly do nothing or quit? SMH
Eaay. Avoid people like you and avoid a culture of negative complaining in your group.
It’s called LEADERSHIP! (most people will do what YOU DO!!)
“EVERYTHING rises and falls on leadership” – John C Maxwell.
Yeah, avoid negative. So if you get sick, call it a “warm” instead of a cold so you sound positive. LOL. Do you know what happens to people who can’t feel pain? They often suffer injuries that kill them because they don’t know that something is wrong with their bodies.
But that’s ok, just smile and be positive all the time right?
WWDB doesn’t have leadership. They basically run a financial scam where the emphasis is on recruiting people who will join their system.
“stop whining”. You ever heard what champions go through to win?
(Meanwhile you be crying like a b##@@ over a paper cut 😂😂😂🤣 🤣)
Dude you’re ridiculous. Ron didn’t build an organization of 100,000 + people without leadership skills.
John C Maxwell (best selling author on leadership) would not waste of his valued time with a “scam”.
Gimme a break.
I beg to differ Malachy. John Maxwell and othe “best seller” authors that have written books on leadership would absolutely “waste” their time on this scam…..and many other mom scams because, simply put, they are MLM whores…….they love people that push their books……it’s business…..surely an astute “business owner” such as yourself can understand this.
I’ll give you one thing. The diamonds possess a level of charisma. But when you say leadership, I don’t think it’s good leadership given how ineffective WWDB is in producing results.
Since your “good” friend Matt went diamond in 1993 or whenever it was, WWDB in the US/Canada has very little fruit on the tree. In that same time, how many tens or hundreds of thousands of people came and went through WWDB and made nothing or lost money.
I’m not whining. By commenting here, we are memorializing your ridiculous claims so Amway prospects can see how you like to make up stuff and name call when you have no answers.
I beg to differ Malachy. John Maxwell and othe “best seller” authors that have written books on leadership would absolutely “waste” their time on this scam…..and many other mom scams because, simply put, they are MLM whores…….they love people that push their books……it’s business…..surely an astute “business owner” such as yourself can understand this.
I don’t care. I don’t NEED your approval.
(And you won’t be able to spend my checks 😎)
John C Maxwell did NOT need amway or WWDB to become a best selling author (with his own section and Barnes and Noble).
He was ALREADY a millionaire before he met Ron Puryear.
Wishful thinking. None of my prospects have ever heard of you.
You are irrelevant and insignificant.
“hundreds of thousands”?? WWDB has around 100,000.
As for fruits? Ask Pete and Rachel if they’d rather be at their jobs.
Or Mandy Yamamoto if she regrets going diamond.
Maybe the thousands who went platimum or Ruby and got debt free should quit?
“”WWDB has around 100,000″” and half of them quit and get replaced each year. So what if one Mandy Yamamoto makes good money if most of her 1500 downline are losing money. What good is it for the downline?
John Maxwell may have been successful in the past but he certainly didn’t hesitate to capitalize on a closed brainwashed audience to make more $$$. I don’t blame him but he is no pillar of virtue for taking advantage of IBOs.
Stupid ASSumptions you make.
You’re a total waste of time
REALLY??
He didn’t need more money. He does it to preach the gospel to souls on Sunday morning, same as he started out pastoring churches.
Impacting lives for the better = real satisfaction.
(So you think with an endless list of corporations and organizations seeking his time as a teacher and speaker he’s interested on Wednesday just for the few bucks?)
Perhaps you should EDUCATE yourself on hos accomplishments, his credentials and his long list of companies he works with. .. SMH 🙄
So Maxwell uses scam money to preach the gospel? That’s like the 30 pieces of silver that Judas got to betray Jesus.
Didn’t need money? You mean like triple diamond Greg Duncan who “didn’t need money” but winded up filing bankruptcy, owing years of back taxes, credit card debt and took out a million dollar loan from Amway to get back on his feet.
How many people are in your personal organization Malachy?
Dude why don’t you do your research on John Maxwell. Stop embarrassing yourself.
“milllion dollars loan from Amway”? I don’t THINK SO!! 😂😂🤣🤣
None
“”John Maxwell has had a long career involving his “teachings” and is a self-regarded “Leadership Expert”. He has written over ninety books, and believes there is still more leadership to be taught and written. He is also an avid MLM proponent and has done many speaking engagements at MLM functions. Although he has “retired” from the evangelism, he is still regularly hawking his services as an expert in the field of MLM training, and continues to overlap the word of god with MLM.
It is my opinion that John Maxwell is a fraud, and he uses his religious training to help perpetuate his criminal enterprise. He is another “Prosperity messiah”, similar to Eric Worre, and he has made a career, and many millions of dollars, selling himself as the answer to people’s problems. He, much like Worre, is a narcissist of the highest degree. He has no training in business and entrepreneurship, therefore his ability to teach in anything related to business, including MLM, is not going to be trustworthy. He has been studied by other biblical scholars, and they have found errors in his understanding and his interpretation of the scriptures. He has combined two criminal “businesses” into a major profit machine, and at the ripe age of 70, he isn’t done yet.””
http://themlmsyndrome.blogspot.com/2017/07/mlm-and-televangelismjohn-c-maxwell.html
Greg Duncan took out a million dollar loan from Amway to help him settle some issues during his bankruptcy filings. I didn’t save a copy of the then publicly issued letter from Amway but a google search still has references to that loan.
WHY would amway just lend anybody 💰? Sounds like MORE of your bullsh##
And this person’s stupid opinion is valid or relevant WHY???
“””And this person’s stupid opinion is valid or relevant WHY??”””
And you put much stock into what the diamonds say, without any vetting. Why?
“””WHY would amway just lend anybody 💰? Sounds like MORE of your bullsh##”””
Greg Duncan is/was a triple diamond and was on the IBOAI at the time. He filed for chapter 7 and needed some cash to help get his case settled. Why wouldn’t Amway offer him a loan?
Why not?
What’s more interesting is how a triple diamond couldn’t manage his finances and had to resort to filing chapter 7. Sounds like a lack of integrity.
He was not a tripple diamond at the time.
(& What’s more interesting is you couldn’t even manage a 4000 PV business and yet you’re so critical of a man who went Diamond (& has helped directly & indirectly dozens go diamond and thousands go platimum )
That’s so stupid. How would you know what’s currently happening in WWDB?
The title of this thread. “”WWDB Triple Diamond Greg Duncan Bankrupt”?
What’s funny is you criticize me about my 4000 PV business but you have yet to achieve 4000 PV. What gives?
How would I know what’s going on in WWDB? I’m friends on social media with people who are in WWDB, including Brad and Julie Duncan.
So now you claim to be “friends” with Brad Duncan?
You can be friends on social media without actually being friends. You knew that right?
😂😂🤣🤣🤣. Yeah “friends”. Aha. Like Brad Duncan would even waste any time being your “Facebook friend”. Lol. LMAO
You asked how I stayed up to date on WWDB stuff. Now you know.
How’s your 49ers doing? 🙂
Hahahaha. #### the 49ers. (Obviously) they need a new defensive coordinator. (And a new quarterback. Or maybe they’ll just give CJ a chance and hope Superman is doing much better next year after his surgery)
Superman was 1-2 this season. 🙂
Just as bad as the Amway business 🙂
And I’ve got better odds of going Diamond then winning a Superbowl 😎
No you don’t. An NFL team has 53 players, plus the practice squad and all the coaching staff plus the owners and investors. They would all get a super bowl ring if they win. All told, over 100 people each year get a superbowl ring. How many people went diamond in the US last year?
Bad analogy (as usual). How many players play in college? How many of them end up making a team (let alone the practice squad).
Odds of playing in the Superbowl? Less than one in a hundred. Odds of winning? Obviously even less
Most NFL players will never play in asuperbowl and less than 1 in a hudred odds of even winning one.
(Funny. There’s a guy who played 6 seasons in the NFL who IS a diamond in WWDB. (he never went to the Superbowl but he’s a diamond)
There you go. Better odds right there buddy.
Mic drop!
Amway has 3 million IBOs worldwide. How many of them go diamond each year? 1-2? 5-6? Let’s be generous and say 20 go diamond each year. That’s a tiny tiny fraction of 1%, and that’s with a generous assumption of how many go diamond.
The NFL has 32 teams with 63 players each, including the practice squad. That’s 2016 players. 1 teams wins the super bowl each year. That’s just over 3%. Much better than Amway and the NFL allows only 1 champion each year.
Amway has no restrictions on how many people can go diamond and the rate of going diamond is similar to your odds of winning a lottery.
Unless you play for the 49ers, in which case your chance of winning the super bowl is 0 this season.
How about those 49ers? I flew to the game first class to see the Rams dominate and destroy the 49ers. The only downer about my vacation was that Great America was closed for the weekend.
😂😂😂🤣🤣🤣🤣
Forty whiners. (Haven’t figured out yet that their defense gets figured out?)
They SUCK!!
You know you could have stayed home. The outcome was so obviously predictable.
You’re right. There’s less than 60 Diamond WWDB rings in existes. There’s thousands of Superbowl rings.
(Well since I live only ten minutes from Santa Clara maybe I should go try out?)
I was telling my friend that the Rams played very conservatively and they didn’t play that good against San Francicsco.
I thought Hawaii lawmakers are bad. (They are) but California has a health care tax?
A $25 meal costs close to $30 due to the taxes.
But I enjoyed fishman’s wharf and the clam chowder in a bread bowl.
Yeah, I figured the Rams would destroy the niners but I paid for the trip and hotels back in June when the schedule was released.
I hate California. San Fran sicko and Suckramento. Damn leeaches and ticks
That’s “free healthcare” for all the Illegal aliens 🙄
Might a been a conest for all you knew. Rams established themselves at the top of the division by September.
So what’s new in the Amway world?
For what it’s worth, I enjoyed my stay at the Stanford Court hotel and the Santa Clara Hilton.
Yeah they destroyed athe most mediocre back up the niners have had in years.
Last night I watched from the second level seat (for free) as they destroyed the raiders with a record breaking quarterback debut.
(Raiders fans on the train home were saying how Grudden meant to lose 😂😂🤣🤣)
Well, your hero Jimmy G was 1-2 as a starter this season so it’s not like he was lighting it up.
And that should have been 0-3. The Lions got jobbed on a bogus pass interference call after Jimmy G threw an interception with less than 2 minutes left in the game.
And frankly, Jimmy G wasn’t going to change the outcome of the game with the Rams.
2 new WWDB diamond couples and an hour’s worth of new platinums & above crossing stage at a packed out UNLV arena while you were wasting all that money to watch a predictable outcome at Santa Clara.
(MOST of the new platinums came from Hawaii BTW. Kenji and Mildred brought Down the house just showing up as new saphires.
Then after FED Trevor Baker had to go home & grab his bags & meet the corporate jet picking him up for double diamond day at the corporation and a one week stay at a Villa in Orland along with a private tour of Disney (he got to skip the lines with his tour guide. )
I was hoping they’d have “double loser day” so I could go. But nope. Gotta put in the work and WIN.
Nick Mullens is the new kid in town. Beat decades old records for NFL debut. 34-3. It was fun to watch from my second level seat which I got to go for free.
Who are the new diamonds in WWDB?
Nick Mullens looked good but seriously I think Alabama is better than the Oakland Raiders.
Somebody (I forget his name is) & Britney Nguyen. And I forgot the other name (arena was too loud to hear their names over the 15,000 people cheering as excited as ever. This was the MOST excited FED since the famous Jimmy Head FED
ONE diamond had 165% growth in their organization.
Ironic that they call it Free Enterprise. Amway certainly isn’t.
Uhhhh. What??
You’re a job person. What would you know about free enterprise???
(So how many companies have you built? Joe)
It most certainly is. We’re free from bosses and we have retail and wholesale businesses. FTC acknowledged this is a legitimate alternative into the market.
You’re also a job person. What would you know about free enterprise?
The FTC did not say anything about the legitimacy of the Amway opportunity. Only that it did not qualify as an illegal pyramid at the time because of certain safeguards they believed Amway had in place such as the 70% rule. But the judge who made the ruling never checked to see if Amway was enforcing that 70% rule, which they did not.
You have bosses called “upline”. Many IBOs have no retail sales.
Nope. Couldn’t stand a job haven’t had a job in over 4 years!
Hellooooooo? I got my own ad business (just had 2 clients contact me last 2 weeks to buy more space. Made $1450 with a phone call and a couple emails. ..
Jobs SUCK!.
(AND Ken is in now way nor has he ever been my “boss” 🙄)..
See? You’re clueless. Haven’t EVER owned a business have you?
No retail sales no checks!!
I am not a job person. I haven’t had a boss in over 4 years. I wake up when I decide to and go home (or work from home) when I decide to.
So you have your own business? That’s all good.
You don’t call upline a boss but you do as they say or do you disobey them?
No retail sales – no check. But that’s easy to manipulate. IBOs are creative. 🙂
This is not a church. They are not my superiors. (see? More stinking Job thinking).
(And just how, exactly, do you “manipulate” no retail sales?)
Did you know life leadership is having a bad attitude towards Tim marks for his independence of Orrin Woodwards desire for control
Yeah they preach lot of true things, but when it comes to walking the walk
They find themselves lacking
I a member of life leadership to help the in employed and homeless find the info they needs to get out of poverty
But truth be told, I then have to defile their marketing systems to reach the poor, as they have designed their systems to find those with a nice income as to make more money
Fuck that
I help the poor
Not the middle class
I no coward
I speak truth
Only through great loses will Orrin make the changes needed to sustain his company, at this time his company is at the edge of being destroyed by the simple factor of dishonesty and greed that has brought great distrust throughout the whole company
I have seen the real problems in the company
It can be fixed
But not until the big shot Orrin Woodward stops idolizing money, and comes back to how he started the company
Which is simple
Helping people help people
Not
Using people for selfish gains
What the hell you talking about? And where are you from??
I from Mansfield Ohio, I grew up under the religious control of the horse and buggy Mennonites, I can see a matrix of control from a far off, life leadership thrives in the controlling of other peoples belief’s
However
When they first started the company they sought to escape the strict control of corporate dictator’s
But as they have tasted, the beast’s of big money comes with the temptation to use it to control others
I have faith Orrin Woodward and his gangs have enough goodness to walk away from control, and turn back to just proper business policies
I can see your English very poor. Where were you born?
“”This is not a church. They are not my superiors. (see? More stinking Job thinking)””
You give them standing ovations when they enter the room. Why? They give advice that supposedly leads to Amway success. But you don’t follow their advice?
.
(And just how, exactly, do you “manipulate” no retail sales?)
Put in fake addresses of “customers” when you order. An Amway IBO told me that when I asked about how to get around the retail sales rule.
Dude you’re really reaching bro. You can’t just put in a “fake customer address”. Customer has to be a registered customer with a physical address an email address first and last name.
As for “standing ovation”? (Sounds like you’re jealous). I NEVER gave a “standing ovation” to a boss ever (unless they/ we accomplish something significant and we’re being recognized at the meeting).
They give me advice that WORKS (& suggest what worked for them or what they would do in my situation). That’s called mentorship & leadership. (& Guess what? He wouldn’t give me any advice he wouldn’t give his own son or daughter – whom he is mentoring in business. I LISTEN to him because he has RESULTS!!!)
Wherever there is big money, there is trouble
A wise man rises above all the stupid words of those that cannot handle large sums of money without letting it effect how they view themselves
Basically they allow they dollar amount to determine how they value themselves
I birth language is Dutch
“””They give me advice that WORKS (& suggest what worked for them or what they would do in my situation). That’s called mentorship & leadership. (& Guess what? He wouldn’t give me any advice he wouldn’t give his own son or daughter – whom he is mentoring in business. I LISTEN to him because he has RESULTS!!!)”””
Your upline mentor claims to have results. You haven’t verified their schedule C business tax return.
Oh STFU crazy fool. NOW you pissed me off with your whiney STUPIDITY.
WHERE do you think he got the cash for cars? WHERE do you think he got the money for his house in MANOA? He actually went to Ron’s house (in Ron’s car when it was being built) when he went to Spokane to do their EMERALD rally!!!
(My gosh your stupidity just astounding me!!)/
So where’s YOUR tax return (“millionaire”)??
And you never proved you were (failed) 4000
So what’s your point??
Nice
I hit the bulls eye
Must rich will die and go to hell defending their own lies and deception, as they idolized money as to damn their own souls
The lake of fire burns hot for such fools
Why would I need to verify anything? I don’t profit from you attending functions or from you buying audios to download or a KATE subscription, or WWDB premier club. The WWDB leaders make money off you. They tell you that they are wealthy and multi millionaires and that you can join them if you follow the system.
You should be more interested in determining whether their statements are true or not because it affects you directly.
I was a 4000, but that was 20 years ago and I really don’t care if you believe me or not. I could show you my green 4000 pin but I’m not sure what that would prove.
The funny thing is I could have been a diamond but even if I had quit 20 years ago, Amway would still recognize me as a diamond.
Well geez maybe Matt gotta is $20,000 a month house from working as a parking manager? Maybe Howie & Teresa got 2 homes from being working professionals in good jobs? 🙄
Geez you’re intelligent
Genius! I guess Matt secretly works another job ha? Just to keep up appearances ha?
Yeah. And the 49ers are Superbowl champions 😎🙄
And Joe Montana is still a Superbowl champion. What’s your point?
Bruce Jenner was an Olympic champion.
Once they’ve done it nobody can take that away from them.
(That wwdb diamond ring is not a participation trophy. It’s for WINNERS. DUH)
You “could have been a diamond”? No you couldn’t. You obviously proved that you couldn’t. You don’t have the stamina, foresight, vision or strength of character to go diamond. I got a better shot of winning “America’s got talent” than you going diamond.
(nobody wants to be around or edify a wet blanket dude. You are – obviously- not a leader. )
Yeah, Bruce Jenner was an Olympic champion and is now a woman. Just like someone can go diamond, have the diamond pin, but not have a diamond business.
Even if your hero Matt was making half a million a year, it sounds pretty excessive to rent a home for $20,000 a month. Especially when that home is in a remote area of the island. And frankly, you don’t even know what level his business is at. He could be an emerald now with a EDC pin.
“””You don’t have the stamina, foresight, vision or strength of character to go diamond.”””
NEITHER DO YOU.
NOT. He’s an EDC who’s broke 2 diamonds and on his way to crown. His mom and dad will be diamonds in 2020.
Hey. I may have tried to quit (but I’m not that stupid). I didn’t stay quit. I’ll see you at the top (but you obvious won’t ever be there)
LOL. Matt was an EDC when I was an IBO in 1998. He hasn’t gone double. There’s a better chance that he’s currently below EDC than being on his way to crown.
About 10-12 years ago, Ron Puryear put out a challenge to all WWDB diamonds. Build a diamond business on top of what you already have. Not a single one of the WWDB diamonds was able to do it and that challenge disappeared from history after that.
Matt’s parents weren’t diamonds in 1998 and they’re not diamonds now. And neither are you.
🙂 🙂
They just got recognized at FED as new saphires. Lit the place up. (I’m pretty dam sure they can find 4 more in a year)
Actually. I am a diamond (just waiting for the physical to catch up. )
Thanks for motivating me BTW
Duncan’s building their fourth diamond business (they’re founders crowns now.
So Matt’s parents went saphire? Awesome. Only took them 25 years?
Yeah yeah, you’re a future diamond. LOL
You cashing those diamond bonus checks yet? 🙂
Yup. A chateau in Tahoe 😉
You’re like the rest. Eventually you will disappear from this forum after you quit and join the ranks of the quitters. 🙂
I’ll probably be too busy going Ruby and then diamond. To hang with QUITTER
Nearly all of your crossline and downline (if any) are just future quitters. LOL
“nearly all”? How do YOU know? Not everyone is like you (quitter)
Boy seal instructors would love you. Get em to quit & ring the bell
We don’t partner with “quitters”. (& If you learned ANYTHING you’d know that most leaders & diamonds came out of DEPTH (“depth is security”).
My sponsor quit
Ron Puryears sponsor quit.
Matt’s sponsor quit
What does that tell ya?
According to Amway, only something like 47% of IBOs are “active”. And we also know that about 50% of IBOs quit in the first year and by the 5th year, something like 95% of IBOs are gone. So chances are your upline and downline are simply future quitters.
If CORE is $3300 to $4500 a year, most people are better off quitting. Why pay $300 a month to earn $10 for your 100 pv?
Amway publishes no such stats on “quitters” or your “95%” BS.
HERE’S a stat: most platinums and diamonds come in depth. Some of them 5-10 or even 20 deep in a leg. (How is this possible if “95% quit”?? Sounds more like 95% BS just like all your other made up useless irrelevant statistics).
Let’s see. 10 customers (that was the rule) or 50 PV. 150 PV personal use + retail (as is TAUGHT) will get you $163.50 a month. (And NOWHERE in the plan does it say to STAY at 150 PV for a year 🙄.)
As you build your network and add more clients you’re supposed to do 300 PV (which will get you — get this? About $300 a month. Wow. Imagine that!)
Show 10 sponsor 2 (did your upline teach something else??) Should get you 6-10 bonus checks (oh. I meant Eagle) within the first 6 months. (6X 150 = 900 PV + your 300 = 1200 PV. 9% of $3600 is how much? Oh yeah. Around $340 + your $200 on your own circle. That “MORE than pays for core” – Mike Wood’s words. That’s what MY upline TAUGHT !!
I’m not in it for $300 a month. I’m in it for $3000-6000 a month or more.
I’ll get that (& you won’t) because just like Matt and Mandy and Mike and Ken I’m not a quitter.
Uhm. You’re supposed to be a silver producer within 6-12 months. By 5 years you should be quitting your JOB! (Mandy quit her job in 4 years then went back to work for 2 years at a bank. Retired at 28)
Some people get retired. Others get retarded.
Matt got retired at 23.
Same island. Same products. Same WWDB system. What was your excuse again? (Oh yeah you quit!)
At 4000 with PROPER parameters makes $1700-2300. Should get you well over $1000 a month. Mandy quit her job at 4000. Rolled over to 7500 the next month.
So what was your excuse again? (Hawaii is “saturated”? 🤔. Or was it the $1200 cost to travel 3 x a year for functions? Dude you got beat by a girl 😂🤣🤣🤣).
Withing 5 years, the vast majority of IBOs have quit. Other than some diamonds or higher up pins, how many IBOs do you know who accomplished little but stay involved in Amway?
What’s your excuse? You’ve been commenting on this forum for nearly a year and you aren’t even at 4000.
🙂
How come we never hear about these wealthy diamonds giving to charity or volunteering their time to help others? Greg Duncan had zippo charitable contributions on his tax returns when he filed bankruptcy.
How about that? Broke old me gave way more to charity than a triple diamond. 🙂
Wow. Really?? Trying to stir up old complaint??
How do you know what G & L didn’t give. Just because they did not report it doesn’t mean they didn’t give it.
(And what about B& J Duncan? How many poor children have you benefitted with surprise Christmas gifts??)
Think about how men like Ron Squire and Ron Puryear left their wives and families better off in their death bed
You have no right to judge ANYBODY (IS your name Jesus Christ? 🤔)
Dude that’s like. A decade ago 🙄. One third of all Job people will end up bankrupt
So what’s your flipping point??
Howcome the dreamnight last night filled up 2 floors in the hotel in San Jose? 🤔
Tonight is also packed out.
Howcome you never talk about the THOUSANDS in debts paid off by hundreds of ibos (even below the platinum level)??
How do you know if any IBOs paid off any debts? More likely they are more in debt now because of Amway and the business expenses such as “dream night”.
If the Duncans gave anything to charity, you can bet they would want to write it off on taxes, especially since they owed a ton of money in taxes not to mention credit card debt.
😂🤣🤣🤣 (really?? “In debt” because of a $75 dinner??) 🙄
Many Americans are already living in debt. Losing money in Amway doesn’t help that situation.
It’s not just a $75 dinner. It’s $300 to get your 100 PV. It’s standing order, premiere club, open meetings, additional functions. Some people probably had to fly to get to dream night.
These expenses add up and can become thousands of dollars quickly.
Yeah you’re right. Brad and Julie had to fly in their own jet (*@ $2000 an hour) to go pick up their new diamonds Terry and Jenny Brown to go do dream nights.
That’s nice for Brad and Julie. The thousands or tens of thousands of people paying $75 for dream night is how Brad and Julie can afford to fly @$2000 an hour. And Brad and Julie make big $$$$ even if everyone who attended dream night loses money.
Ok. Lemme break it down for ya (since you’re obviously math challenges)
THIS year is the last year of dream night. The organization has outgrown the capacity to keep with the demands on the AV crew and equipment (on the road every week non STOP. San Jose had both floors filled to capacity for the bakers (Glenn and Joya AND their double diamonds son and his wife!). About 60 tables or so each room with 10 seats each. (That’s 600 people at $75 each)
NOW. What do you suppose the Dinner costs (probably $20 per plate at today’s prices). Room rental. Staff and THEIR meal/ room costs etc.
Next night we were filled with one ball room (600) for Jim Puryear (2nd generation diamonds – remember when you SAID “why aren’t their kids doing it?” 😂😂😆) And new diamonds from the bay area Pete and Rachel.
What was the topic? Rachel talked about doing for others what they would otherwise never be able to do for themselves. Her mother got to travel to the east coast to see her dying mother thanks to Pete and Rachel having the financesvand freedom to do it (not no $400 coach seat. Her mother’s medical condition required first class seats with room to elevate her leg. ). Mom had told her NOT to pursue the business.
Jim didn’t talk about the river house or the trips or any money. He talked about CHARACTER (sound familiar?).
You’re just a selfish negative nerd
So you think the hotel ballroom rentals we’re FREE?
What about the staff salaries and wwdb production equipment?
What about the catered meals? Minimum $15 per plate. (& I suppose the $75 went to the purchase of Duncan’s jet too 🙄)
$75 a head. Sure there are costs to run a function. But the cost is likely $30 a head which includes the cost of the room and the wait staff. $45 profit times 600 is $27,000 for a night of speaking. And Dream night is the smallest and probably lowest profit of the major functions.
Add in premiere club, standing orders, local functions, KATE, book of the month and other for profit materials and now you’re talking jets and other nice luxuries.
Dude you have NO idea! People like Brad Duncan and Grant Cardone spend more on fuel and pilot costs per Trip than whatever compensation they might get from speaking at an event.
WWDB ALSO has to pay salaries to the STAFF that produces & runs the videos 🙄.
They don’t work for free.
The office in Spokane is not free
(& I guarantee the cost per head is more like $50 not $30).
Some locations bring in less than the cost ALSO.
Total BS. If they weren’t profiting, they wouldn’t be flying around to functions.
Cost is $50? Still a nice profit considering they might run numerous dream night functions.
Not to mention dream night probably turns into a standing order which they then sell to IBOs.
Not to mention the profit from KATE and all the other open meetings and functions they run.
And don’t forget premiere club. That’s about $50 per active IBO.
And all this is in addition to the $25 per head profit they make from Dream Night.
There are no more dream nights. It’s been replaced by go diamond weekend for silvers and above
Maybe dream night didn’t make enough profit anymore. I know the other major functions can make millions.
No it’s called over Capacity. Those AV staff don’t work for free you know. They gotta load the trailers with equipment and drive all over the country. They were on the road ALL MONTH LONG and in San Jose we had both upstairs and downstairs ballrooms filled to capacity on Monday for the bakers and Tuesday filled the upper level ballroom to capacity for Puryear and Hirshelman.
They cannot get any bigger and sustain the staffing demands the room costs and meal costs (*why don’t you find out the ballroom rentals cost at Double tree San Jose? It’s the most expensive real estate on the west coast. )
BS. Many venues such as convention centers have sound equipment that can be used because they often host these kinds of events. I guarantee you that WWDB isn’t running any functions at a loss. If they did, those functions would stop.
Malcahy, you want to see a video of the new porsche I just bought?
Sure. maketores@yahoo.com
Which model?
Whichever one is the most popular. 🙂
Carrera or Cayman?
Mmmm so which color did you get?
How do you like that form of proof?
What proof? Proof of what?
Exactly what I say when you claim so and so made $500k in a year or paid cash to remodel their home, or bought their dad a corvette.
“”What proof? Proof of what?””
I love the irony of your statement. 🙂 SMH
The peeps who fall for amway or other mlm schemes are fascinating to me. Can’t figure out if it is due to low IQ, mental illness, lack of common sense or a combination of those. Kind of like the people who fall for the Nigerian prince scam e-mails. The Yonique mlm peeps are the best. I love when they post a cup of coffee from Starbucks on their facebook with a caption that reads “Thanks to Yonique I was able to buy this with my purple card”. Could you imagine if peeps with jobs posted every little item they purchased and thanked their job for it lol. It is like they have zero self awareness. Would love to encounter one of these clueless people in the wild just to study them.
Really? Common sense would tell you jobs mostly don’t work for the long term. Lots of highly Educated (doctors, lawyers etc) can see that (& have made millions in Amway)
WHY can’t you??
Melancholy, You do realize per Amways own financial disclosure the average income for an IBO is $207 a month. Only 0.01 percent of distrubutors make a livable income. Which doctors and lawyers do you know who quit their professions to become amway distributors? Melancholy would you care to share your schedule C to prove us wrong? If you live in the States, would you care to share who you have health insurance through? I’m willing to bet that your health insurance is a welfare one that my taxes pay for because you are an idiot chasing pipe dreams who mooches off of people like me. You have been spouting your cult shit on this message board for 3 years now and per the amway cult beliefs you should be close to retirement by now. How is that working out for you? I know you can’t afford premium channels so make a friend who isn’t in Amway and ask to come over and watch the series on Showtime called “On becoming a God in Central Florida” Then you will realize how 99% of the population laughs at amway fucktards. You are a tool and an lolcow.
Does anyone remember Rod and Penny Alcott? Would love to know what happened to them and if they are still involved in Amway or were smart enough to get out or even if they are still alive ?
Dean WHY would somebody who got FINANCIAL FREEDOM and raised their kids and had time with their family want to “Get out” IF you even made $400 per month, let alone six figures you would be STUPID to ” get out”..
Hey Mary since when is my HEALTH INSURANCE even RELEVANT to this discussion? (NOt that it IS any of your business but I have blue shield).
So do you have a job? if so what kind of job (and who is Your health insurance provider?)