Skip to content

TEAM Is Dead. Long Live LIFE Training

January 29, 2013

The more things change, the more they stay the same. One thing that you can always count on with Orrin Woodward is that the he will change the name of his business. Team of Destiny (TOD) became Together Everyone Achieves More (TEAM) last decade. It’s been a slow process over the course of the year, but the next transition is nearly complete. TEAM is going the way of the dodo and will now be called LIFE Training. You can see it in the updated website at, where there is only one tiny mention of TEAM at the footer of the page. It’s just a matter of time before they switch the domain name from to something with the words “life” and “training” in it. Search and replace must be Orrin’s favorite tool of his webmaster, as the FAQ is nearly identical except that TEAM has been replaced by LIFE Training.

Search and replace goes a long way. Look at how the TEAM FAQ differs (or not) from the LIFE Training FAQ.

Search and replace goes a long way. Look at how the TEAM FAQ differs (or not) from the LIFE Training FAQ.

I didn’t know that Orrin Woodward and Chris Brady had developed a time machine (bold emphasis mine):

When Orrin Woodward and Chris Brady began their business careers they unknowingly joined an organization in which profits were weighted towards those who “got there first.” They didn’t like this situation and vowed to fix it. As a result, in 1999 they formed LIFE Training, with the goal of developing the fairest, most equitable plan to share 100% of the profits remaining each month. This, in fact, caused many rival organizations to attack them as they made an issue of, made public, and sought to end the unfair distribution of profit from training materials.

Since the launch of LIFE in November, 2011, a number of the tools that were once part of TEAM have transitioned over to LIFE. Meetings and seminars that once were TEAM functions have also been re-branded as LIFE meetings and conventions.

The old Open Meeting Subscription Plan is being renamed to the LIFE Library Subscription. LIFE Seminars Subscriptions are now being re-branded as LIFE Live Subscriptions and the Electronic Business Center is now being called LIFE Line. That @TheTEAMBiz Twitter handle, the one that used to be called @TheMonaVieTEAM? It’s now called @Training4_Life.

Finally, on the LIFE Business website FAQ is the following statement:

Is there any business development training?

LIFE has partnered with LIFE Training, a top community building and training material organization, to provide all of its business development training. LIFE, in other words, provides world-class personal development materials at a remarkable price point. LIFE Training (with over a decade of experience with tens of thousands of people in several countries) provides leading-edge business development and training to assist LIFE members in building their businesses. Here is how the personal development and business development break down:

Are you still with me?

It’s clear what’s happening. The old vestiges of TEAM, complete with its ties to Amway, Quixtar, and MonaVie, are going away for good. In its place will be a “new” company that’s “always” been aligned with this LIFE business. New people being exposed to LIFE will never know (or hear about) TEAM because it never really existed. I can hear the excuses now, “TEAM is a scam? People will write anything on the Internet. We’re not TEAM, we’re LIFE Training!”

Current TEAM/LIFE or The LIFE Business members should take their blinders off and see this name transition for what it really is. Just like Orrin Woodward did for TOD, he’s doing it again with TEAM. He’s changing the name as a way to hide from legitimate criticism about his business. The business is still the same, and the undeniable fact is the majority of participants are not going to make any significant money in this venture.

Orrin never met an adage he didn’t like, but he obviously missed this one: A leopard can’t change its spots. Orrin will give it the old college try, however!

74 Comments leave one →
  1. Mike Bickel permalink
    January 29, 2013 7:16 am

    I was a submariner in the Navy on an old diesel boat. When you’d be lining up a shot you’d stick your periscope up, get the “angle on the bow” and estimate course, speed and range and set your torpedo guidance circuits and line up your shot. But that periscope had to be up a short time. On the next look you often would find that the “target has ZIGGED” which means that the destroyer changed course to avoid being shot – they would “zig” regularly to avoid being hit by a torpedo if they knew that subs were in the operating area. MR. WOODWARD is doing just that. Trying to keep himself from being hit even when he knows he’s targeted. But this AMTHRAX group is smarter than that and can anticipate his every move. As a former submariner, I know when a target is about to become wreckage. “BATTLE STATIONS – RIG FOR SILENT RUNNING!”

  2. Rascal Teamster permalink
    January 29, 2013 7:33 am

    Perfectly done, and I totaly agree. I was watching it happen from shortly after LIEF launched. They started moving the System over into the LIEF business. Open Meeting subscriptions, Seminar Subscriptions, The Calendar, The Blogs, the video library…it all has been switched into LIEF. Heck….even Orrin & Chris stopped posting to the blog on the Team site.

    The only thing left of the System when I quit was 4 CDs and Team Talk. It has become unnecessary to even have a Team Site anymore.

    You will see the Team name disappear. I’m sure of it. I can only hope that the FTC checks them out before Team is dead.

    They still have this nagging problem with recognizing Team ranks at majors. I don’t see how you can legitimately recognize something called Round Table or Policy Council at a LIFE major when those ranks aren’t even part of the LIFE business. How would you explain that in the business plan??? Well you wouldn’t….which is why they don’t!

    My prediction is that those ranks get folded into the LIFE comp plan. No……better yet……they will just change the names of the ranks……And the song remains the same.

  3. Former Round Table permalink
    January 29, 2013 9:40 am

    Un-friggin-believable! Orrin Woodward needs to learn some new tricks, because this one has been played before! Let’s see, I joined when it was just plain Amway. Then Quixtar. Then Orrin formed Team of Destiny to try to differentiate and hide from critics of Amway/Quixtar. Then TEAM, to hide from critics of Team of Destiny. Then Team Monavie. Then I quit. Then Team Life. Then Life Team. Now just Life. Wonder where they will go next.

  4. Brent Hansen permalink
    January 29, 2013 10:33 am

    Although this statement may be 100% correct “As a result, in 1999 they formed LIFE Training, with the goal of developing the fairest, most equitable plan to share 100% of the profits remaining each month.” it doesn’t mean jack-squat.

    Definition Equitable: characterized by equity or fairness; just and right; fair; reasonable: equitable treatment of all citizens.

    Definition Fair: free from bias, dishonesty, or injustice: a fair decision; a fair judge.

    Wow, does that sound like their plan?

    Allocation is the name of the game. Where is 100% of the profits allocated too? I can share 100% of my profit like this; 99% to me, and 1% split up between everyone else. Does that sound fair?

    Lots of fluff and MLM jargon but the bottom line is the bottom line. As they say, you can put lipstick on a pig, but it is still a pig.

  5. Melanie Morgan permalink
    January 29, 2013 10:36 am

    Another Excellent Article Amthrax!!!!

    Mike Bickle~ I love your analogy, you have some great posts and it is dead on…the fraudsters have made themselves a target and not just for the critic!

    FRT~ I agree their tricks are so predictable, it’s nauseating, This is soooo obvious it is pathetic! What message are they sending to the blind followers?

    Re-brand & Recycle AGAIN!!!!..Unethical, immoral, and just plain GREED! How long can they run from themselves?.Absolutely disturbing..anyone who follows, including the RT after this can not have an ounce of critical thinking left…nothing more than a bunch of puppets on a string! As if they weren’t before!.How humiliating…

    How many will flee in droves over this one and their re-branding, that alone ought to be a felony, I was convinced before they brainwash and create thoughtless unquestioning robots but oh man you would have to be a total moron to continue to follow that..

    The crafty spinsters will either avoid and play this down all together or try and make this ‘sound’ like it is the next best thing since sliced bread or phase and their will be suckers who fall at their feet and worship and idolize them….and then will turn around and blame the critics and the smart ones who haven’t lost their critical thinking (newbies) as they flee in droves because of another one of their genius moves..

    They are the demise of their own scheme.

    You can run but you can’t hide..their days are numbered and their time is running out.

  6. Melanie Morgan permalink
    January 29, 2013 10:41 am


    Amen! Thanks.

  7. Melanie Morgan permalink
    January 29, 2013 10:44 am


    I agree…the great deceivers…Lief has NOT been around since 1999! Lies, Lies, and more Lies!

  8. Melanie Morgan permalink
    January 29, 2013 12:41 pm

    One of the saddest lessons of history is this: If we’ve been bamboozled long enough, we tend to reject any evidence of the bamboozle. We’re no longer interested in finding out the truth. The bamboozle has captured us. It’s simply too painful to acknowledge, even to ourselves, that we’ve been taken. Once you give a charlatan power over you, you almost never get it back.” ― Carl Sagan

  9. freedomhaha permalink
    January 29, 2013 1:42 pm

    I don’t even know what to say about these clowns anymore that hasn’t already been said. I just want them gone and out of innocent peoples lives so badly.

  10. Rascal Teamster permalink
    January 29, 2013 1:43 pm


    How true that Sagan quote is. Look at the Tweets coming out of the Fortune crowd. In the face of the FTC saying, “you are an illegal pyramid,” the lemmings still say, “We love you, oppressors. We will stay with you forever.”

    They remind me of the brainwashed Vietnam Vets who never came home, or the German children who turned in their parents in WWII. Dang, hard to believe that I was these crazies 10 months ago.

    I once heard Orrin go on a rant at a Bronze And Above meeting about how people call the Team an illegal pyramid. He said,
    “If this is an illegal pyramid, then so be it? I’m in one.” Everyone went ballistic just like the Fortune nuts. I was one of them. Mark Paul looked at me, and we both grinned.

    I grinned because at the time, that took a lot if guts for Orrin to say, and I admired his bravery. I’m sure now that Mark was grimning cause Orrin just admitted he was a pyramid, and I was cheering with the rest of the idiots.

    I’m still trying to figure out if I was “Fluff” or “Carnage.” Maybe I was Carnage, and my wife was Fluff. If anyone wants to do an anti mlm podcast, Carnage and Fluff sounds like a catchy title. You guys kill me!

  11. January 29, 2013 1:57 pm

    That Bronze and Above meeting would have been great to record.

  12. Melanie Morgan permalink
    January 29, 2013 2:27 pm


    Your comments had me rolling, lol!

    That quote said it all and quite shameful how their system creates such idolatry. Very disheartening to see how millions get bamboozle. It really is despicable and dangerous the stronghold and how they breed…greed, the PC knows this and others worship them and they use the power of undue influence to keep them there! I feel like freedomhaha..

    I just hope and pray that sooner rather than later these guys will face what they have done and are brought to their knees and humbled. The only way I believe that will have is if they are investigated, but people will probably still worship them even if they went to jail…see Charles Mason and his followers that still can’t think without him! I read an article that said he receives the most letters than any other convict in jail!

    The story of Pharaoh also fits perfectly, so much so you would think it was a story written about the Team & PC.

    Power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely.

  13. Melanie Morgan permalink
    January 29, 2013 2:45 pm


    They NEVER recorded the RT or those meetings ever, but if there ever was one I would love to have the cult experts and others hear them! They were nothing but a beating, berating and authoritarian power-trip. They took the liberty to send their messages they didn’t have enough guts to say to others faces and send it there. Same as from stage only they pretend and act way differently on stage because they would blow out 90 percent…They would rather try and humiliate them in these meetings for the higher pins! Everyone in the room knew they were hammering on someone.. (Method of Behavior Modification)

    Those who busted their butts and created their lifestyle’s those who followed the marching orders, the foot solders who did all their dirty work and were the connection to the top and the link to their whisper campaign. T

    They would have these meetings display their arrogance and power, they obviously thought they would use their positional “authority” to humiliate people. It was so blatantly obvious and gutless on their part but they used what others were telling them behind their backs on other leaders. It really was sickening to see and hear and everyone knew they were talking about someone. Gutless cowards.

    It really is nauseating that others blindly worship these fraudsters.

  14. Melanie Morgan permalink
    January 29, 2013 2:49 pm


    If it weren’t for feelings of a moral obligation and bad for those who will be sucked in….I would disappear from this blog…

  15. Melanie Morgan permalink
    January 29, 2013 3:43 pm

    I hope no one is offended by my comments, that was not or is my intention, you guys are great and keep me laughing!

    Amthrax and all of you have been more to me that words can say and also an amazing support! 🙂

  16. January 29, 2013 4:09 pm

    I added a short quote from the LIFE Business FAQ page that says “LIFE has partnered with LIFE Training, a top community building and training material organization, to provide all of its business development training.” I like how they make it seem like LIFE Training is like some outside training organization when in reality, it’s the same people running both businesses!

  17. freedomhaha permalink
    January 29, 2013 4:11 pm

    Rascal- An anti MLM podcast would be an amazing idea. The only problem is that I doubt it would ever find its way into the ear of those that need it most.

  18. freedomhaha permalink
    January 29, 2013 4:14 pm

    Another name change to add to the timeline filled with those pesky facts!

  19. January 29, 2013 5:49 pm

    I’m wondering when Orrin Woodward just goes ahead and changes his name to hide what he’s doing.

  20. Rascal Teamster permalink
    January 29, 2013 6:45 pm

    Quite to the contrary, sir. It would most certainly make it into the ears of those who need it most.

    You should see my Twitter followers, Freedom. If I ever decide to follow this on Twitter, I’m well followed in the Leadership industry as well as many networkers (current and former Team PC & RT & others) and Mastermind Event speakers.

    If it was cross promoted on a popular blog that ranks high in the search engines….like this one, as well as on a cartain Facebook page, it would be heard.

    I haven’t used Twitter in a while, but I sure have entertained the notion. I’ve made audio and video podcasts for a previous website I owned, and Mark did tell me to do something productive with my life….or was that Life?

    Can you say, “place a big bullseye on your forehead and wait for the bomb to go off?” It would be like a massive foot race of Cannonball Run magnitude to see if the FTC gets to Orrin before Orrin gets to me.

  21. freedomhaha permalink
    January 29, 2013 8:05 pm

    Rascal- I would never be more happy to be wrong than this. I would be interested in working on something. We could show the business from different perspectives.

  22. freedomhaha permalink
    January 29, 2013 8:09 pm

    “LIFE has partnered with LIFE Training, a top community building and training material organization, to provide all of its business development training.”

    My Mom also said that I was the most handsome kid in school.

  23. No Team For Me permalink
    January 30, 2013 1:01 am

    Rascal – please, get it started. Let’s get the word out. Every avenue we can use helps.

  24. Former Round Table permalink
    January 30, 2013 6:16 am

    freedomhaha — I just spit out my coffee from laughing out loud.

  25. ItsaPauling permalink
    January 30, 2013 7:20 am

    Not sure if changing the brand of plates that they get to spin is going to help.

  26. I QUIT (and glad I did) permalink
    January 30, 2013 8:16 am

    The name change will sure help keep prospects from seeing all the negative Team info out there. Lief will have much less. For now. Guess we can help change that a bit huh. People of integrity expect to be believed, but when they have none they change their name. Thats how it went didn’t it?!!

  27. January 30, 2013 10:22 am

    @freedomhaha – I’ve updated the timeline with references to the name changes for the TEAM Twitter account and LIFE Training.

  28. No Team For Me permalink
    January 30, 2013 8:28 pm

    sorry this is off-topic, but did Brent Hansen put his phone & email on one of the threads once? I can’t seem to find it.

  29. MemoryLame permalink
    January 30, 2013 11:13 pm

    Just a few quotes from Orwell that came to mind as I read this article:

    “All animals are equal, but some animals are more equal than others.”

    “The creatures outside looked from pig to man, and from man to pig, and from pig to man again; but already it was impossible to say which was which.”

    “No one believes more firmly than Comrade Napoleon that all animals are equal. He would be only too happy to let you make your decisions for yourselves. But sometimes you might make the wrong decisions, comrades, and then where should we be?”

    “This work was strictly voluntary, but any animal who absented himself from it would have his rations reduced by half.

    And my personal favorite:

    “It had become usual to give Napoleon the Credit for every Successful achievement and every stroke of good fortune. You would often hear one hen remark to another, “Under the guidance of our leader, Comrade Napoleon, I have laid five eggs in six days” or two cows, enjoying a drink at the pool, would exclaim,
    “thanks to the leadership of Comrade Napoleon, how excellent this water tastes!”…”

  30. Former Round Table permalink
    January 31, 2013 6:07 am

    Will Orrin Woodward change his own name to John Smith? Might help his cause if he did…

  31. January 31, 2013 8:56 am

    What is Fluff and Carnage in the context of LIEf? I have a different defn. of fluff.

  32. Mike Collins permalink
    January 31, 2013 1:13 pm

    No Team: here’s Brent’s number
    (208) 312-5170

  33. No Team For Me permalink
    January 31, 2013 3:26 pm

    Thanks Mike!

  34. Chris permalink
    February 1, 2013 1:43 am

    Life has….wow life.just got soo much better…team, life, life training it’s all the same..the lack of creativity in the name changes is almost laughable…through just over a.year and a.half with this group I noticed that through the changes they went through, they always seem to distance theirselves from the past…I wander why…?

  35. CGC permalink
    February 1, 2013 5:03 pm

    Orrin fans, feel free to read this and leave some comments about what an amazing guy he is:

  36. Rascal Teamster permalink
    February 1, 2013 6:24 pm

    Did ya notice that if you click on the link below Orrin’s signature, it takes you to a different blog with a ton of positive Team replies?

    Also, his signature is a link that takes you to this video with Art Jonak.

    Notice how it introduces Orrin? Guess he’s still a Top 10 Leadership Guru in @ArtJonak ‘s book. Wonder how many people have referred to him as that in print?

    Amthrax, any idea why this blog by Orrin only has three replies….all negative, while the one in his Read More link under his signature has 70-some positive team replies?

  37. MemoryLame permalink
    February 1, 2013 7:15 pm


    Is not Orrin Woodward’s site. It’s a social media reading club for all kinds of books. I think anyone can post book recommendations on it. The negative is from the ex-team members who found it.

    I’m guessing this is a site that Orrin Woodward has no control over the comments posted. In fact, my best guess is that some Teambot cut and pasted this posting from his blog in an effort to promote. This poster probably didn’t ask his upline for permission first. 🙂

    Sure is a shame that some people just don’t get proper “duplication” isn’t it?

  38. MemoryLame permalink
    February 1, 2013 7:29 pm

    Incidentally, I want to encourage all posters here to do something that Amthrax suggested earlier. Let us all refrain from using initials or nicknames for Orrin Woodward and Chris Brady in our posts. Amthrax rightly stated that although we can all relate to one another’s emotions about these guys, it lends credibility to the casual visitor or potential Team member, and that’s who we really want reach, right?

    Here’s another really important reason, I am not well versed in search engine optimization but I am pretty positive that every time Orrin Woodward or Chris Brady’s name are listed on this site, it helps to drive this site up when people look for Orrin Woodward and Chris Brady.

    Same goes for when we talk about L.I.F.E.

    Every little bit helps right? …Together Everyone Acheives More 🙂

  39. Rascal Teamster permalink
    February 1, 2013 7:31 pm

    @MemoryLame, you are probably correct. I can’t see Orrin ever posting to a blog he has no control over. It’s not his style.

    If someone else from the Team cut and pasted this out of Orrin’s blog without his permission, I’d say their duplication is working just fine. I’m beginning to see a pattern here.

  40. February 1, 2013 11:22 pm

    BTW, the comments on the GoodReads post were removed 😦

  41. freedomhaha permalink
    February 2, 2013 9:19 pm

    Another case of TEAM LIEf censorship. Guess where comments from both sides won’t be erased? RIGHT HERE!!

  42. JOBOutsider permalink
    February 10, 2013 8:22 pm

    Another thing I always wondered… Were the names Team and Life picked purposely to allow for easy phasing out? The names are so generic that they can be forced down google search results if something bad were to happen or they wanted to sever the ties between themselves and their previous histories.

  43. Kate G. permalink
    September 9, 2013 7:26 am

    I was approached by a friend who is in this Life training….The first thing I noticed was the pyramid. It is the biggest picture they paint. They cant help but draw the pyramid for you. I asked him if it was like the HIV poster (if you sleep with one many did you really sleep with?) I thought it was a good analogy because it is the same concept One person is the big boss who recruits department heads who recruit middle managers who recruit worker bees.
    We are all a potential Big Boss but we have to get our own department heads and so on. We all start off as worker bees for the big boss.The real kicker is that what is sold is what the community buys, cd’s and subscriptions for something they havent really described yet. It starts as I pay 30 dollars the first time but for what? that was not answered. I was invited to an Open meeting where I could get more information.

    After the one on one meeting I was left some cd’s and a little book (i can potentially buy). The book is about being confident in networking and talked a lot about subscriptions that I inadvertently buy then share so someone else who can buy (another potential worker bee). So far I am told it is 100 dollars to start and 30 dollars for the first set of cd’s. I dont get how no one gets the money for this. someone is getting paid.

    My last question was how much do i have to feed the fish before I get a return. I just got a smile. So instead of being duped by another company (long story) I decided to take a look online. I am finding more and more reasons why this is just a mask of delusion. I am not going in on this one. How can I sell what I do not believe in. It is unfortunate that they are using positive thinking in such a demonic way. By the way they are using religion to tie into their gimic I saw a logo of faith at the bottom of their new website. Ugggg…

  44. September 10, 2013 9:57 am

    Kate G. said – “It is unfortunate that they are using positive thinking in such a demonic way.”

    You hit the nail right on the head, Kate! You figured out in a couple of meetings, what it took me eight years to realize. You’re a smart girl and you have just saved yourself endless years of headache and regret by not getting involved in this pyramid scheme.

    The “product” is books, CDs and meetings that will take you away from your real, meaningful life and transport you into their warped, sleep-deprived world where you will work like a slave to earn money for the top 8 leaders. Only 1% of the people will ever make a dime doing this (the expenses far outweigh the income – see the link to the Income Disclosure Statement at the top of this page) AND Orrin reserves the right to take your business from you at any time. It’s preposterous, but he’s done it before and he won’t hesitate to do it again. The leaders will refute this claim and call it “sour grapes”, but many people on this site have had their teams and income taken away, with little or no explanation. We have absolutely nothing to gain financially by stating the truth here; Orrin and his minions have everything to gain by their mud slinging.

    You’re instincts are right – DON’T TRUST THEM!

  45. noteam permalink
    September 10, 2013 12:55 pm

    Kate G – so glad you were able to see the truth so quick. So many of us on this site wasted tens of thousands of dollars and years of our lives for this group of scammers. The part we feel the worst about is how many people we led to the same group before we realized the truth.

    So rewarding to see someone who will not lose all that time with loved ones and friends and who will not go tens of thousands of dollars in debt only to have their business taken from them.

  46. December 23, 2014 5:06 am

    I was reading down this stream of comments, and Melanie, I noticed that you mentioned the term ‘behavior modification’. I am currently reading the free e-book, “Merchants of Deception”, where the author writes about being subjected to this kind of treatment in exactly the detail that you described. I have found myself on the verge of tears so many times while reading this book, and learning about the path of oppression that these people have chosen and are in reality living, in the ‘quest’ for their ‘dreams’ to be realized. We have family that we are desperately trying to rescue from this cult world, and am trying to gain more understanding of why they would ever allow themselves to be subject to this kind of demoralizing treatment. “He that oppresseth the poor to increase his gain, and he that giveth to the rich, shall only come to want.” Prov.22:16 Lord, deliver us from evil!

  47. freedomhaha permalink
    December 23, 2014 8:14 pm

    jemily52- Amen! I will be prying for you family.

  48. mlmwinner permalink
    December 26, 2014 11:37 am

    My son just got sucked in in that group. Talk about Cult and Gurus… It’s unfortunate that they are using “personal development” as a bait…. don’t take me wrong, I am a strong proponent of personal development and there are tons of good books and tapes on the market to feed your mind…

    My son asked me if I knew of LIFE/TEAM. A quick search on the internet and I wrote him back “pyramid”… obviously, he doesn’t believe me. He’s brainwashed right now !!!

    I love the Network Marketing Industry when it is done correctly. When checking for a company to partner with, check the following:

    1- Who are the principals of that company – check their track record (I was not impressed)

    2- You have to be able to make money selling your product to a “real” customer, someone who is NOT signed up in the comp plan. You can only do this if your product is outstanding and the price is in line with the market (Most companies have overprice products and the reason of NO customers or fake products just to cover the money game)

    What do you think the ratio CUSTOMERS/DISTRIBUTORS is with that group? I would say close to “zero” !

    Most pyramid scams collapse by themselves with time…. why do you think these scammers start new companies all the time to suck in more and more money to pay for their Homes and Boats ….. while others are taken down by the authorities (Zeek Rewards, Telexfree…. and so many others).

    Your choices create your reality. Choose wisely.

    Learn from the mistakes of others…. because you will NOT live long enough to make them all yourself !

    Have a fabulous 2015

  49. Melanie Morgan permalink
    December 26, 2014 7:56 pm


    “We have family that we are desperately trying to rescue from this cult world, and am trying to gain more understanding of why they would ever allow themselves to be subject to this kind of demoralizing treatment. ”

    The only reason they allow themselves to be subject to this kind of demoralizing treatment is because they are made false promises, intentionally omit and withhold information, mislead, are lied to, and manipulated. They cloak it in “Christianity” and benevolence, tell you, you OWN your ‘own business’ and tell you they are training you to be the best “leaders” so you don’t recognize you are being oppressed! You own NOTHING, read the contract.

    I wish you and your family well & a speedy exit. Good Luck.

    If it is any consolation, the odds of your family quitting is extremely high & hopeful. The attrition rate is extreme (those who quit every year) is anywhere from 50-90 percent per year and eventually, you replace all but just a few. With that high of a “churn rate” that is plenty of hope for your family.

    Sadly, it is the time until then that they learn who an what to hate, begin to look at everything outside the people in the “business opportunity”, as the only ones in the world that are smart enough and winners, everyone else is critics, losers etc. They pretty much mess your head up.

    They continually bombarded with their negative undue influence (they claim and it ‘appears’ to be positive) propaganda. But I challenge anyone to read from ANY MLMer’s anywhere that allows both sides to debate and you will find they are far from positive towards any and other businesses. education, jobs, government, the entire outside world is bad, Anyone else are non-leaders if they don’t either promote the “industry” or especially their particular MLM as it theirs IS the BEST…. (not enough difference to speak of, they are all based on recruit, recruit, recruit, they TOP less than 1% would never make a dime and the “business” would collapse without it because there are NO RETAIL SALES to speak of.

    I will provide the link at the end of this. But it is an excellent article by Robert FitzPatrick. I could not have come even close to writing with the same clarity of this article/link that I believe will help you understand the facts and bottom line. (read everything you can from Robert FitzPatrick and his blog, you’ll find his name and info at top of article):

    Here is another one, you can start to understand the phycology behind cults from:

    Hope that helps, Merry Christmas & Hopeful of a Happier New Year when your family escapes. 😉

  50. Melanie Morgan permalink
    December 26, 2014 7:58 pm

    Correction inside not outside the “business opportunity”

  51. Soon2BOut permalink
    December 27, 2014 1:34 pm

    Hey guys! It’s been awhile since i’ve posted.

  52. Missouri permalink
    December 27, 2014 4:01 pm

    We too have family that we are trying to figure out how to approach and suggest that they rethink their decision to be involved in LIFE. Christmas was not the same again this year as this family now has a whole circle of friends none of us know and we are all supposed to support their dreams now that they are building their “own business” which is not really a business and has 1% chance of success and is ridiculous given the time and money they put into it. We have nothing meaningful to talk about that doesn’t turn into a LIFE conversation. I miss having real conversations with my family, without them prescribing some self-help leadership tool that they have found through LIFE (many of which I have read or gotten from the library for free). I keep blaming myself for perhaps complaining too much about my J-O-B or not being enough of a support that these family members had to go in search of something else to round out their life. Clearly our family circle had too many problems, was too negative, and did not provide enough stimulation like their LIFE circles do. If nothing else their involvement in this thing has caused me to realize that real life is fragile, that you can never take people for granted. That if we don’t make everyone in our life a special treasure, they may go out and seek that affirmation from somewhere else, and you don’t know what that will be. The thing that is bothering me now is what I just found out when we gathered for the holidays. They are finally getting to take a vacation after many years. I was so happy for them that I inquired where, when, etc. They are leaving their kids behind and going with 2 other couples – friends (I used to know their friends) – and they will be sharing a hotel room. BUT if they make their business goals they will be able to stay in their “friend’s mansion.” I was so dumbfounded at the word “mansion.” Clearly that was a motivation. I stopped inquiring because I did not want it to turn into a business conversation at a holiday party. This is all weighing heavily on my heart because I know that as soon as I confront them it will cause a family rift. I keep praying they will get out, and I promise I will be there for them when they come out. You give me a place to put my frustrations into words so thank you for this site.

  53. Missouri permalink
    December 27, 2014 4:11 pm

    Amthrax, I just heard this segment on Public Radio this weekend. It’s about a Network Marketing org called “Wake Up Now” and in this audio piece you could substitute in LIFE Leadership and it would be accurate. At one point they describe this organization as an “economic cult.” This fits my experience as I listen and observe family members and friends who have been involved with Mona Vie and LIFE. I listened to the whole thing so that I could be informed from a variety of sources when this whole thing blows up in my family. Here is the link to the audio and the transcript:

  54. December 29, 2014 7:41 am

    @Missouri – Thanks for the link to Wake Up Now. Yup, they seem to be following the tried and true method of many MLM companies. Best of luck trying to help your family members.

  55. Melanie Morgan permalink
    January 6, 2015 10:16 am


    Here is an excellent article by Robert Fitzpatrick (! I happen to just read!!

    You may have already read it and are following seeking alpha, Robert Fitzpatrick, Matt Stewart, Quoth the Raven, Bill Ackman on Herbalife, pyramid schemes, cults, etc.. if not I highly encourage everyone who has contributed on here and especially those “prospects” or those that are rapid promoters of any MLM, to get educated!

    For all followers, (mlmers) It would be in your best interest to snap out of the denial, now…check out and run…. it is keeping you trapped in these totalistic losing, destructive MLM..”business opportunities” . . Now is the time to wake up, more than ever imo, it is just a matter of time and a no brainer… that is if you don’t want permanent egg on your face and your reputation to be ruined completely!

    I cannot stress enough how excited I am about the what is happening with Herbalife, the “industry”…..because of the reams of evidence and TRUTH is coming out as it always does!!! There is never been a time with this amount of information that is getting out to millions of people!!! I don’t think I have been this excited since I was under-the-influence of the indoctrinated ‘economic cult’, when I believed their nonsense!…. except NOW…I am free!!! Amazing how quickly the truth is catching up ….FINALLY!!

    For all of you contributors and especially Amthrax, THANK YOU! !None of your effort has been in vain!

    As those of who read the comments on the link I provided, ( I hope all do) but notice the very first comment!!! 😉

    By the very definition and especially the “practice” of “mind control, thought reform or thought control”…. YOU don’t need a “gun to the head”…..duh..amazing!

    Mind Control (also known as brainwashing, reeducation, coercive persuasion, thought control, or thought reform) is a theoretical indoctrination process which results in “an impairment of autonomy, an inability to think independently, and a disruption of beliefs and affiliations. In this context, brainwashing refers to the involuntary reeducation of basic beliefs and values”.

  56. Melanie Morgan permalink
    January 6, 2015 10:26 am

    For some reason, can’t get out of my head the theme song to cops..”What ya gonna do when they come for you”…bad boys lol”….

  57. Melanie Morgan permalink
    January 6, 2015 10:38 am

    From another excellent article by Matt Stewart on Herbalife;

    Here is a quote: “In the interim, Pershing Square confirmed yet again yesterday that in the past few weeks a parade of at least 10 new whistleblowers have stepped forward to testify against Herbalife, including top distributors and corporate employees.”

    Appears the veil will be shredded. 🙂

  58. January 8, 2015 6:01 am

    Just wanted to thank you, Melanie for being a ‘watcher on the wall’ for all of us who are in rescue mode for our family members who are involved and in a sense corrupted by the lies propagated by these mlm schemers. That was a great article by Robert Fitzpatrick as he painted a very thorough picture of the deviancy and cult nature of the mlm/pyramid scheme world. It is quite a long article, but so worth the time it takes to read it. For all the rest of us out there who are ‘fighting the good fight’, please direct your loved ones to critically consider what this article is communicating about the cult nature of these ‘businesses’. Thanks again, Melanie!

  59. Chris permalink
    January 8, 2015 11:13 am

    When did Orrin Woodward break off the InterNet system and start Team of Destiny?

  60. Melanie Morgan permalink
    January 9, 2015 8:32 am


    You are welcome. To you and Missouri, I wish you and your families well and a quick exit.

    Did your families get in because they were led to believe they are going to financially solve their problems? Do you know how much they SPEND per month and how long have they been in? Have their profit exceeded their expenses or are they totally ignoring this and repeating the line (they are conditioned to say)..”we are in to better ourselves” but continue to talk about how much $$ they will make?

  61. Melanie Morgan permalink
    January 9, 2015 8:33 am



  62. January 12, 2015 6:17 am

    My family member (via marriage) has long been a disciple of Amway from way back in the 80’s. I can’t help but wonder if that is what led to his divorce in the first marriage. I am sure this couple now believe all the lies that they have been fed from their leadership and believe that they are on the cutting-edge of something wonderfully life-changing.

    Robert Fitzpatrick’s recent article really cemented in my mind what we are actually dealing with. We have been exploring the possibility for some time that these ‘businesses’ could be cult-inspired. The path of destruction that these kind of things reap in families is wretched and sickening, and made me even more aware of the depth of spiritual warfare that families are facing when seduced by the lies they are fed from those who have long been unashamedly ‘fleecing the sheep’ in the name of ‘the business’.

    I am grieved to think that a beloved family member is playing this role right now, unaware that she is teaching others to be deceptive. I pray for her, that God would soon wake her up and deliver her from ‘reaping what she has sown’. Right now she has distanced herself from any family that might want to talk some sense into her…(cult tactic) They are deeply embedded into the ‘system’, and those who deviate from following it in her mind…are ‘losers’, as they have been taught. Why she agreed to follow her husband down this path in the first place, I don’t understand, except as I said, he was a disciple of Amway from way back. And Chris and Orrin have long been his idols. We don’t discuss money, but I am sure that ‘bettering themselves’ is part of the draw. They made a decision last spring that let our family know that they are deeply struggling financially, although they would never confess it.

    Anyways, we are praying and doing what we can to fight for her, esp. in the face of them losing everything, which I am sure they are well on their way to doing. It is a lonely battle, and trying to convince people that should be caring for them that it is a cult is next to impossible. After all, in people’s minds hasn’t Amway (LIFE’s ‘Daddy’ company) had a reputation of backing up conservative politicians, and Christian colleges, and right-winged military leaders???. Wow, that couple on ‘This American Life’ that were discussing ‘Wake-Up Now’ called their experience when they visited one of the seminars…’completely mind-blowing’, and they were right. It defies sanity on every level! I know I am rambling, but I know we are not the only family that are struggling with this issue. I guess my plea to all of you who would spend time to read this would be to point family members who are tempted by ‘businesses’ of this nature (mlm’s, pyramid schemes and network marketers), to read “Merchants of Deception” by Eric Scheibler, or direct them to Amthrax or to Robert Fitzpatricks blog “False Profits”. These resources tell the truth of what is actually going on in the ‘underworld’ of these pernicious business plans, and keep us from stumbling when faced with the decision to join these kind of things.

  63. freedomhaha permalink
    January 12, 2015 6:38 am

    jemily- The story of your family is heartbreaking. Having been in TEAM I know first hand that it is in fact a cult. When I was in I overheard a conversation between my mother and grandmother talking about how “I had changed since I started in the business”. I was so blinded at the time that I thought that this was a good thing. Thankfully Amthrax, and the longtime contributors of this blog were here to pull me out.

  64. February 7, 2015 10:49 am

    They even teach you that when you hear your family and friends say that you are different, changed…then you know you are really serious about the pretend “business”, that you are truly “going after this thing!” yada yada yada. This serves to further entrench the minds of the hoodwinked, starry eyed acolytes deeper into the false profit religion… I mean pretend “business” oh jeeze I mean “bizz.”

  65. February 7, 2015 12:28 pm

    ATTN: to Amthrax friends: There are some of us that are joining together to take some decisive action about the ‘life’ business and other mlm’s. We are inviting you to call in to a conference call: conference # is 760-569-6000. The access code is 975016# You can also keep your number confidential by dialing *67 before dialing. If you’re interested in taking action or just want to listen in, esp. if you know other people that are involved and you would like to give them some information that might be helpful, please join us tomorrow @2pm Eastern time Sunday, February 8, 2015. We have been talking with this fellow who runs another like-minded blog. He was in Amway for about 14 years and knows Orrin Woodward and Chris Brady, and also understands firsthand the corruption behind these mlm’s, and desires to do what together we can do to shut them down. Please join us…

  66. Rascal Teamster permalink
    February 7, 2015 4:44 pm


    While I totally admire what you are doing, and I sincerely believe that if we all banded together we could take them down, please be careful.

    This group loves lawyers, loves bullying, and knows a thing or two about spying….they learned from Amway. You just posted the number and access code to your conference call on a public forum that is carefully monitored by the very people you are fighting.

    Rest assured, the PC will be recording your conference call…..and anything you say may and will be used against you in a court of law.

    Somehow you have to figure out how to do this without posting it publicly. There will always be Team sympathizers at every function you ever have or any conference call you hold.

    I would suggest you set up a private group on Google or yahoo with a nonsense group name and password that networks word of mouth and privately invites their friends who are members on this forum.

    You have basically invited the Team into your strategy session and are giving them your game plan on how you are going to beat them. I’d rethink that.

    I hope that didn’t come across as too harsh. It wasn’t meant to. It’s just reality.

  67. Melanie Morgan permalink
    February 8, 2015 8:22 am

    I agree with Rascal. You aren’t dealing with people of integrity. Based on my experience, it is more dealing with the mob. Bunch of dirty game playing, manipulative snakes..

    All the bible verses they pay lip service to, the “Christian principles” they say they live by, integrity, honesty, ethics, “leading people to the truth” all a show and front, when it comes to anyone they have targeted to be their “enemy”….anything goes. No such honesty, morals, or ethics….

  68. Melanie Morgan permalink
    February 8, 2015 8:29 am

    Feel free to contact me on a private FB message.

  69. February 9, 2015 7:14 am

    Jemily52 and all – The person Jemily52 has been talking to is Tex, the former Amway distributor and owner of the Stop the Amway Tool Scam website. That’s the same conference number he’s been touting on his website. While we share some of the same beliefs when it comes to MLMs and MLM training organizations, his belittling tone and profanity-laced treatment of those who disagree (even on minor points) has made him a banned-poster on this website.

  70. Rascal Teamster permalink
    February 9, 2015 8:08 am

    Thank you, Amthrax.

    The Team already has their finger on the pulse of what Tex is up to. The fact that he’s still operating after all this time proves his irrelevance. If he was a legitimate threat to them, they would have attacked him a long time ago.

    I’m curious as to whether or not you told Tex you are a poster here, and if he was straight forward with you and told you he was banned from this site???

    If the answer to those two questions are “yes” and “no,” run away….don’t walk. His character is no better than those we battle.

  71. freedomhaha permalink
    February 9, 2015 8:58 am

    We really need to do something though! It is infuriating knowing that TEAM is still out there swindling people (albeit at what seems like a much lower rate than previously).

  72. noteam permalink
    February 9, 2015 10:10 pm

    Freedomhaha – I agree. We need to do something. All it takes for evil to triumph is for good people to do nothing. How many of us wish someone would have pointed us to the truth sooner? Yes we were blind for awhile. But there is so much more factual information out there now ie. the bankruptcies of Huber & Darkangelo, the Guzzardo default, the $3r million for Orrin, the truth about the Amway lawsuit.

    We need to find a way to get the word out to the masses.

  73. February 10, 2015 7:49 am

    Hi friends…hey, thank you for your concern. I didn’t know the old Tex that was banned from this site. He has been nothing but kind and gentle and concerned about what our family is going through. I truly have learned so much more from visiting at length with him about not only his concerns about the dark side of these businesses, but he has been a God-given encouragement to us to keep up the good fight in the face of seemingly insurmountable odds. He’s been a listening friend when God knew we needed one. And also in a sense doing God’s work to stop the abuse. Maybe he is the ‘kinder, gentler version’ of Tex that we have gotten to know. I think (and my husband noticed this) that being involved in these types of businesses maybe makes you more argumentative and defensive?. Just an observation that we also noticed from our family that are involved. And being ex-military might play a role, too. But I truly believe he has the right heart. And he offers an open invitation to anyone who would like to visit with him. He wants to do the right thing, and expose these guys for the lies that they are perpetuating, and the lives and families that they are destroying. He has saved so much documentation from his years in Amway that could possibly legally take them down…maybe part of the reason that they aren’t bothering with him?

    I don’t know, friends. This is all new turf to my husband and I. We came to Amthrax because we saw what this was doing to our beloved sister. Our hearts along with yours are broken for the lost relationships and fallout that all of this has reaped for so many We want to do the right thing in the face of all this and engage in freeing others from the bondage and the lies they have been told. That may look different for each one of us, but we all can play a role in taking these abusers of families and children down. Maybe one soul at a time! With God’s help…


  1. This American Life on Wake Up Now MLM | AMTHRAX

Leave a Reply. Because your thoughtful opinions are valued, you are encouraged to add a comment to this discussion. Don't be offended if your comments are edited for clarity or to keep out questionable matters. Off-topic and inflammatory comments may be deleted. Comments on this website are the sole responsibility of their writers. The accuracy, completeness, veracity, honesty, exactitude, factuality and politeness of comments are not guaranteed.

Fill in your details below or click an icon to log in: Logo

You are commenting using your account. Log Out /  Change )

Google photo

You are commenting using your Google account. Log Out /  Change )

Twitter picture

You are commenting using your Twitter account. Log Out /  Change )

Facebook photo

You are commenting using your Facebook account. Log Out /  Change )

Connecting to %s

%d bloggers like this: