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TEAM: Sling, Squeeze and Side Action

March 20, 2011

I’ve always been curious about the stacking approach that got Orrin and company kicked out of Amway. I was recently provided with an explanation of the following TEAM Approach: Sling, Squeeze and Side Action.

Want to know how Orrin Woodward and Chris Brady are teaching people how to build their TEAM/LIFE/MonaVie business? Read on!

For ex-TEAM members, I know this might be painful, but imagine for a minute that you back at a TEAM Major Function. Orrin and Chris are pacing around the stage, explaining this new method that will take your business to the nuclear level. Now envision one of these “leadership gurus” saying the following:

Everyone building the business, shows the plan (STP) to as many people as you can.

Do not worry about a maybe or a no!

We have a plan!

Let’s say you have 3 people/leaders showing the plan. When one of you gets a YES, you go back and squeeze whoever was a MAYBE into the business. Then, you squeeze whoever was a NO last.

So in your group, for example the plan was shown to the following people:

  • A = NO
  • B = MAYBE
  • C = YES
  • D = MAYBE
  • E = NO
  • F = NO
  • G = MAYBE
  • H = MAYBE
  • J = Haven’t Shown To Yet

As a team when you finally get a yes (C), you and others showing the plan, would call up H and say:

“Hey H the business is working and we have someone gettting started today, If you want to get in and hold your spot you would have one person under you.”

You may say, “We will build it with you through you and for you if you are a leader.” With some luck, you’ll convince H, and he’ll say, “Sure I guess I could get in and drink some juice and see what happens.”

Next we go to G and use a similar script:

“Hey G, the business is rockin if you would like to get in and hold your spot, I have 2 people that would be on your team.”

So G says YES.

Next you and your leaders go to D and B and do the same thing. who say YES. Now you have 5 people saying YES and who have become new distributors.

Now you have a plan to show to J, tonight. So when you show J you tell him:

“Hey J! I have 5 people getting started today, so if you get started today, you will have 5 people underneath you. The business is exploding!”

And he says YES. Be sure to invite him to the next meeting and get him on system too if at all possible.

Finally, we come to those people who said NO. Lead with this script:

“Hey buddy I know you were not interested, but I now have 6 people getting started in the business. I know you didn’t think it works, but I am telling you it is exploding. You wouldn’t want to miss this opportunity, would you? I tell you what, you will have 6 people in your business if you get started today!”

Guess what? Mr. No finally says YES. As a result, he gets in on top of the group. The same script is used for the other people who said NO.

What we’re doing is using the guy who said YES (H) to squeeze others into making a YES decision too. As for the first guy who said YES? C’s reward? We place him at the bottom of the TEAM. Too bad.

The above is called Sling and Squeeze.

Side Action is what occurs when you sling and squeeze and build numbers because then a guy has believes the business works without a lot of effort at first, so He may go out and build a second leg. When this happens you get Side Action in your group (in other words second legs being built by some).

So this is how the group may be registered into the TEAM. Current group and then add:

  • A (NO)
  • E (NO)
  • J (You just showed him the plan)
  • F (Maybe)
  • B (Maybe)
  • D (Maybe)
  • H (Maybe)
  • C (YES)

This is why people are not registered right away. This is stacking, TEAM-style.

TEAM encourages people to show the plan, show the plan and not to worry about the results. The leaders, they know how Sling and Squeeze works, and if you do it the right way, there will be times when 12 people can get started all at once.

Of course, these people getting started don’t know what the heck they are doing; they are probably thinking that their leaders are going to do the building all for them. This is why TEAM pushes the System on them hard from the get-go.

Why do Orrin and Chris tell you to secure people with the System? Because if they weren’t brainwashed by the CD’s, books and seminars, they would get off of autoship the minute they receive their first credit card statement! Once they get on the System, however, their chances of getting brainwashed… or brainflushed… becomes quite high.

Remember, TEAM doesn’t care what product is being peddled through the partner MLM company. TEAM is concerned about selling tools and function tickets.

In TEAM Approach Volume, we’ve shown how placing bulk 1000 point / 12 case orders can give the new guy cash to go on System and allows the leaders to hit higher and higher levels. When the new guy goes Star 1000, he’ll have false recognition, think he’s on to something big, and gets further sucked into being a TEAM zombie.

Add it all up, and you have an interesting approach to building the business. Does Sling, Squeee and Side Action work well? Well enough that this stacking method is one reason why got Orrin kicked out of Amway/Quixtar and well enough for him to go Black Diamond in three months in MonaVie.

Ex-TEAM members. Does any of this make sense? Was this what was taught to you by Orrin and his TEAM leaders? Leave your comments below!

Update: I found this TEAM member’s description of Sling, squeeze and Side Action. Read it and compare with what we have described here! TEAM Alpha Omega closed its blogspot account and moved the article over here.

110 Comments leave one →
  1. March 20, 2011 7:20 am

    Amthrax….this is EXACTLY what I was taught by my upline PC member no less! It did work very well as several times our team could squeeze enough people to go ten levels in depth in only a few days. The problem was that the people you squeeze in believed the business was going to be built for them… like they just saw… and if it didn’t go ten levels in depth every week…it blew them out. I NEVER found a person who was “serious” about building through this method, however you did dig depth. It would mean that I could go Power Player….but the volume would disappear quickly! Guess what the answer to this problem was? Do it again!

    March 20, 2011 7:46 am

    Yes, Amthrax this is what we were all taught to do and it worked. Too bad for for guy that says yes right away though. If he knew he was being used to build that 10 in depth and being put on the bottom his yes would probably turn to NO. When you are a Team zombie I guess you don’t realize this practice is based on lies and deception. Just like the rest of the biz. You see the leadership cons you into thinking you are doing a good thing using whatever tactics it takes to get someone in the business. Because without the business in that persons life they are a lost 95 percenter! When in actuality you have been manipulated and used again for the financial gain of Owen and Co. I can’t believe I used this practice on family and friends. Talk about brainwashed. Fortunately they forgive and forget over time. And the guilt fades too.

  3. March 20, 2011 8:23 am

    Amthrax, great post. Thanks for laying this out there in an easy, clear way to follow and understand. This will truly help the new prospect understand more about the shady business practices of this bunch of mis-leaders. AND YES, it was painful for me to read as it brought back memories of my former days building team in a VIVID way. This is exactly how Orrin and Chris teach and preach it.

  4. Dorothy permalink
    March 20, 2011 7:33 am

    This commenter requested that her comments be removed from this site.

  5. Dorothy permalink
    March 20, 2011 8:01 am

    This commenter requested that her comments be removed from this site.

  6. Speak Your Truth permalink
    March 20, 2011 9:21 am

    Wow pandora’s box has defintely been opened on this one!!!
    Great job teamer you were taught well! A concise post! This is the way it is taught in a code lanuage because they could never teach this for a CD or DVD, the leaders had to teach this behind the scenes. They had to teach this in the meetings after the meetings, “special” for the leaders. They did teach it from stage but only with the coded words. The newbie guy had no idea what the hell was being taught and some that weren’t the builders “nose-pickers” as they liked to call them didn’t have a clue!
    We realized the “too bad for the guy” and we did things a little different we kept it in an order to keep the integrity. All these years people wondered why they touted they were the fastest growing in the industry because this would “dig depth brutha” very fast, they would have thousands of people if it weren’t for this! Well I think who ever wrote this up layed it out exactly and all the MLM guru’s should come on here and take a look! They think this would be a trade secret and claim they came up with this…right! But looks like no secrets now and this bred pride and arrogance to an unhealthy level in the PC. They claim to be humble, NOT!
    Will agree it worked better than the spider ball no doubt! The problem is the people you squeezed really didn’t want to build the business anyway this would be what you call “coercive persuasion”! I remember Chris Brady saying from stage many times, you have to be “persuasive”!
    This would be the only way you could break even in their 2-5 year program!
    The power-player program fell right in line with this magical depth building !LOL

  7. Speak Your Truth permalink
    March 20, 2011 9:36 am

    webelieved says: “they actually gave themselves a pay cut in AMWAY/Quixtar. So you would kill yourself and then lose money!!! They would tell you oh well long term you will get 4 % off their business, the problem Orrin is I have to feed my kids!!! And I am going broke buying your freeekin TOOLS!!!!!”

    Oh this is SALT in the wound! Lies from upline saying you wait til to get to this level and break those platinums below you, you will make the money! What a frickin lie, busting out platinum’s below, did exactly that YOU GOT A PAY CUT because we were only in the depth building not told not to go to wide! Then were told you will get 4% for the rest of your life and it will only grow! You bust your arse to the point of exhaustion, and then told to keep building depth because they wanted you to find the next leader, just in case someone had “stinkin thinkin” you would already be passed them, they could quit without a hitch! The more you think about all the this crap, the more thankful you can be of being FREE from all the twisted lies, practices and methods!!!!!!!!!!!

  8. TOD permalink
    March 20, 2011 9:40 am

    Team approach is a brilliant idea for building depth. But, a brilliant idea that was deceptive, corrupt and also went against Amway’s code of conduct. I don’t care if you like their rules, but it is their rules and you broke them. And before any of you Team apologists think that I am off base here, think back to a special concept called GenII team approach. Anyone remember this beauty?

    Basically, Amway was on to what they were doing and forced them to adapt. If anyone went 7 levels in depth without sponsoring a second team, then they had to show proof to Amway that the new person sponsored knew the person that sponsored them. So here comes GenII, where we taught people to segment their list and basically started 2 teams at the same time.

  9. TOD permalink
    March 20, 2011 9:45 am

    So instead of following the rules, Team decides to leave Amway and wrecked the train. Period.

    If that happened before, what makes you think that will not happen again. It will and a whole new generation of people will lose their businesses or worse yet keep following a rogue band of leaders at Team who think that the rules do not apply to them.

    Think about it.

  10. TOD permalink
    March 20, 2011 9:50 am

    And don’t get me started on team approach volume. I am sure it was started as a work around to get volume, but it is deceptive and basically cheating. All it says to me is that you are not good enough to build legitimately. So, go for the gray area. Live on the line between right and wrong. AGAIN!

  11. March 20, 2011 9:56 am

    Regarding “coercion,” you may be interested in the following post I wrote a few months ago called Coercion Through Edification. Appreciate your comments there too!

  12. Speak Your Truth permalink
    March 20, 2011 10:16 am

    Oh boy forgot completely about that one, way to bring it!

  13. March 20, 2011 10:19 am

    I’m not aware if R3Global or BDU promotes stacking as described in this post, though because MonaVie is a binary MLM, isn’t stacking almost a given?

  14. Speak Your Truth permalink
    March 20, 2011 10:22 am

    Funny you mention the “gray area” Yes! But they call it a “duplicatible, proven system” you are not to deviate from and want to control everything.
    That everthing is “black and white”, “us vs them” and the worst kicker is Orrin touted Q/A was all for the way we were building from a team stage! Can you say DECEPTION and more lies!

  15. Speak Your Truth permalink
    March 20, 2011 10:30 am

    Oh yes, they stole the profit-sharing and all else you say is true! No one of our upline put not 1 frickin person in our group,no we did what ever we could to keep our crooked ass upline out of our group, this ticted him off, well to bad should of gave him a clue on how crappy he would treat leaders and he definitely could not be trusted, not one iota! Jealous much? But then went behind our backs and had been de-edifying us for years to try and win the influence! What is the most amazing and I still cannot wrap my mind around is they screwed over and effed with the wrong people, some of the biggest leaders on their own teams, which you only have to read this blog to figure that out and many more that are out there! Can you say stupid knows stupid!

  16. March 20, 2011 11:57 am

    Hi Amthrax, Yes, generally, you described Team Approach (Sling, Squeeze, Side Action) correctly. Only thing I need to correct is that We do NOT place the earlier guys below the later guys. It would be UNFAIR to the earlier people. This wrongful practice happens frequently in binary plans and I admit that it should NOT happen. Unfortunately, it is HARD to police. Hopefully, TEAM leaders have more integrity NOT to do so. Thanks, Rykel

  17. March 20, 2011 12:10 pm

    If people aren’t being registered immediately after saying YES, then this possibility still exists. At the point of registration, there there might be several people being registered at the same time.

    @Rykel – What would you say if you found out that your TEAM leaders were doing this unfair practice?

  18. OWesladouche permalink
    March 20, 2011 12:12 pm

    Orrin taught our group to do it the unethical way Rykel. If he has changed, then good for him. However, I highly doubt it. I always thought it was shady, but he convinced all of the leaders to do it this way. Kudos to you for having integrity.

  19. Dorothy permalink
    March 20, 2011 12:31 pm

    This commenter requested that her comments be removed from this site.

  20. Dorothy permalink
    March 20, 2011 12:36 pm

    This commenter requested that her comments be removed from this site.

  21. Dorothy permalink
    March 20, 2011 12:45 pm

    This commenter requested that her comments be removed from this site.

  22. Dorothy permalink
    March 20, 2011 12:52 pm

    This commenter requested that her comments be removed from this site.

  23. TOD permalink
    March 20, 2011 2:10 pm

    I agree Dorothy, well said.

  24. March 20, 2011 2:14 pm

    Thanks for the clarification. Does that mean the TEAM structure does not have to mirror the MV structure in a distributorship?

  25. Dorothy permalink
    March 20, 2011 1:15 pm

    This commenter requested that her comments be removed from this site.

  26. March 20, 2011 2:31 pm

    Rykel, you say that you don’t believe stacking is ethical and also it happens a lot in TEAM and it’s hard to police. Legitimate businesses will take on the neccessary responsibility to crack down those who are handling business wrong. In TEAM, there are team leaders who are responsible for their downlines, it is up to the team leaders to enforce ethical practises. Another thing, is this being brought up in meetings/conventions/seminars? Is it in the Terms of Services? If not, then snap that whip to Orrin and Co and get’im at it!!

    Rykel I’ve noticed you have this annoying habits of not directly answering hard questions in my posts. Please answer honestly. If you’re not able to answer or be honest, think long and hard about why are you in TEAM, and face the cold hard facts.

  27. Dorothy permalink
    March 20, 2011 1:54 pm

    This commenter requested that her comments be removed from this site.

  28. Speak Your Truth permalink
    March 20, 2011 2:55 pm

    You did a great job of calling it out to Ryky.I neither think of him as a friend or even remotely close, true friendship take years. I do have pity on him though. He obviously has a different view of what friendship is and does understand right from wrong. Either this is Orrin borrowing Rykel’s identity (being a gutless, cowardly, poser) or Rykel is clearly brainwashed. Interesting how he acts like Orrins spokesperson. His statements are a poor attempt at trying to convince others that his statements are facts! He hasn’t proved a damn thing. All just his oppinion. He really is a waste of time and needs to be left to Vogel! Vogel are you up for it?
    Funny how he thinks he’s found a friend in Amthrax and TOD.

  29. Dorothy permalink
    March 20, 2011 3:18 pm

    This commenter requested that her comments be removed from this site.

  30. March 20, 2011 5:16 pm

    Great comments from everybody on this post. I can tell that we are dealing with people who have spent years doing this! I would imagine a new guy reading this would be….huh? LOL! This is a key point to any new person looking at the Team idea, or somebody not long on Team! WAKE UP! People who know this a whole lot better than you…..are ripping the covers off the LIES! It takes a community indeed!

    Rykel, you make me laugh! Not only have I heard Orrin teach the sling, squeeze, and side action, as posted previously, but other PC members as well….so….Yeah….it’s happening that way!

  31. Speak Your Truth permalink
    March 20, 2011 6:02 pm

    Thanks for all your posts today they have been very enlightening! I can say that it is freeing to be out of this mess with all the deceptive, manipulative unethical, and immoral practices. Some things even criminal, these things have a way of catching up! It never ceases to amaze me how the teamers DENY with a twist and continue to justify unethical, and immoral practices. They avoid questions that would implicate them and twist it, like they think people are fooled! But “A man convinced his will is of the same oppinion still!” and “It isn’t over until you WIN.”1+ God is always the majority! Only time will tell what the Almighty has in store. We know when we get to our death bed, then we know this, we have done the right thing.

  32. March 20, 2011 8:14 pm

    Amthrax- When taprooting(just another name for stacking) was introduced in BWW, we were taught to do exactly what you have posted. It was never taught from the stage though. New IBOs received 50PV when they signed up with the product intro pack. So when 5-6 new IBOs were sponsored this way, easily the volume added up and IBOs higher up would then be pushed to buy extra products to reach higher pin levels

  33. March 20, 2011 8:42 pm

    @exeagle – Looks like a number of Amway organizations were teaching this technique. BWW, INA, TEAM… wonder if it ever got to WWDB, N21, or Yager. Miss reading your posts. Hope you have more stories to share!

  34. Vogel permalink
    March 21, 2011 8:21 am

    I’m always up for dishing out a well deserved fact-check/tongue lashing, but Rykel never really says anything of substance. His head is buried in the sand.

  35. Speak Your Truth permalink
    March 21, 2011 8:28 am

    LOL Thx!

  36. Rob Thomas permalink
    March 21, 2011 10:58 am

    Speak Your Truth wrote:

    “…this is Orrin borrowing Rykel’s identity (being a gutless, cowardly, poser)…”

    So, if you use a name other than your own on this forum, that makes you a gutless coward? Then why does evefyone else on here use aliases; gutless cowards?

    I have found a lot of good info on this site, but question the authenticity becuase of all the aliases. I’ve seen many of the “worker bees” go through the ringer with this biz, but when the “big shots” get on here with fake names, its hard to believe that its really them.

  37. March 21, 2011 11:36 am

    To everyone – I have no reason to believe that Rykel is anyone other than who he says he is. We can stop with the accusations that he is really Orrin in disguise.

  38. TOD permalink
    March 21, 2011 12:04 pm

    Did anyone really think that? OW is never coming on this site fake name or otherwise. At least he will never comment. It would do him no good to do that so no one should hold their breath.

  39. Speak Your Truth permalink
    March 21, 2011 12:28 pm

    Rob Thomas
    Here is what Orrin says about anonymous bloggers, so it is he with the problem and therefore one could conclude that he would never do such a thing. So, one would think he would come on here as Orrin Woodward and answer the questions since HE obviously doesn’t agree with and has derogatory statements about anonymous bloggers!

    Orrin says: “Rather than post anonymously, hiding their identities as well as their real motives, assaulting the reputations of people that they don’t personally know”
    Orrin says:”Any reputable company would serve the customer in a heartbeat.” –Orrin

    Geez Rob sounds like a nerve was struck, not sure why? I don’t know of any anonymous blogger on here that has said the same as Orrin’s above statement? I also know Orrin hates critics and would love to know who is posting and those that have experienced him and his strategies on an up close and personal basis for YEARS, know how they think, write and talk and know what he and others are capable of. You know it would be simple enough to shoot an email to anyone to copy and paste, just saying. But hey Rob not sure why you are offended it wasn’t about you, so sorry you took it that way. Is your real name, Rob Thomas? Lastly, “the big shots” that you believe are fakers aren’t on here to satisfy you and personally I could give a rip if you think I am a faker, but it would be totally absurd to think everyone here with the same injustices done to them are fakers. That just doesn’t happen with sane people in the real world. They all cannot all be faking it. Wasn’t it Rykel who believes all these people are fakers, fear mongers, yes I believe I read his post on that? Hmm.. See that is the beauty of being here in the first place you can freely think what-ever the hell you want!
    LOL! I have for your convenience posted our conversation before. Something just doesn’t had up here buddy? Typing style and content seems to be quite a bit different? Hmm…..just saying, LOL

    March 5, 2011 5:04 pm
    Rob Thomas
    In December 2010, I ran into Mike Foos while in a meeting at GM. He’s back as an engineer. Not sure about the others.

    Speak Your Truth
    March 7, 2011 10:26 am
    Very interesting, Mike Foos triple 100, Hmm… pretty telling, wonder how he is being promoted now, had a good job bad according to them/retired with the great teachings their “proven system” of passive residual, ongoing,willable, b-type, for the rest of your life!/ went back to work and because why???? Hmm…

    Rob Thomas permalink
    March 9, 2011 9:14 am
    STY –
    I’m guessing he’s not being promoted. I talked to him about his past (he does not know I was with TEAM) and he told me that he was doing multilevel marketing for a number of years, but got out because of the economy and politics. Never got a change to press him for more.

  40. I Quit ( and glad I Did) permalink
    March 21, 2011 1:13 pm

    But no matter how you built it, if you couldn’t get the volume to follow NATURALLY, it always fell apart several months later. At least that was our experience. Build, replace, build, replace, build, replace, build, replace, etc. etc. etc. etc.
    Sounds like its still jacked up with the need for product loading and all…
    The ethics questions just keep compounding don’t they????

  41. Rob Thomas permalink
    March 21, 2011 1:33 pm

    Easy killer, no offense taken on my end. I don’t read Orrin’s blog and would not know that he’s the one who originally wrote “cowards post anonymously.” You posted those lines here, I read those lines, and it appeared to me you were being hypocritical.

    As to my “typing styles and content” not adding up, what do you mean by that? Rest assured, I am who I say I am, and all posts under my name are mine.

    More people would be convinced of these stories if they were coming from somone who has spoken on a TEAM stage.

  42. March 21, 2011 1:46 pm

    I have to agree here with SYT. It would not be hard for Orrin to email Rykel in Singapore the text that he wants him to post, so that the IP address comes from out of the country. Whether or not that is happening, we will never know. What I do know is that Rykel seems to have some inside information based on his comments and his use of the English language (written word) is better than many of the commenters on this blog. For someone that is from another country and English is a secondary language that seems a bit odd. Does that mean it is not him? I don’t know. Maybe it is, maybe it isn’t. Just something to think about, that’s all.

    Lastly, does or would Orrin get on here to read comments or blog? My opinion is that be probably would. He has created a vast number of blogs that seem to do nothing but promote himself on the internet. Looks as though he is simply trying to game the google search engine results when people search for his name. So, he is obviously aware of the anti-orrin sites and trying to squash them in the ranks. We all remember him changing the name from Team of Destiny to Team to combat the negative image that people could read about when they searched for team of destiny. He clearly likes to waste his time tracking this stuff vs. spending time with his family and enjoying the millions that he has pilfered off of others.

  43. March 21, 2011 4:28 pm

    Rykel has been posting on this site for a long time now, well before any ex-TEAM members ever started communicating. I think we should give him the benefit of the doubt in this case. As the site owner, I’m probably in the best position to detect when people are trying to game the comments system. I don’t mind if people use aliases or handles when they comment, but I do ask that they remain consistent and don’t use multiple aliases to pose as different people.

    I would like to bring this topic back to point. Let’s talk about Sling, Squeeze and Side Action instead of slinging theories about who’s behind the keyboard (or manipulating any puppet strings). Thanks.

  44. Speak Your Truth permalink
    March 21, 2011 5:56 pm

    I Quit
    Do you remember the BOM by John Maxwell:
    “There is No Such Thing As “BUSINESS” ETHICS.
    “There is no such thing as business ethics~there’s only ethics!”
    He also says there is only ONE RULE for making decisions and that is:
    the GOLDEN RULE.
    King Solomon put it this way:
    “The ways of right-living people glow with light; the longer they live, the brighter they shine.
    But the road to wrongdoing gets darker and darker–travelers can’t see a thing; they fall flat on their faces.”

    Here’s what he says about the bottom line of ethics;
    “Companies that are dedicated to doing the right thing, have a written commitment to social responsibility, and act on it consistently are more profitable than those who don’t.”

    He also says:”Absolutely. Ethics + Competence is a winning equation and the contrast, people who continually attempt to test the edge of ethics inevitably go over the edge”
    “It may be possible to fool people for a season, but in the long haul, their deeds will catch up with them because the truth does come out.”

    This is a great book, and is a very serious issue but that aside I wonder if anyone else read it? LOL

    So I couldn’t agree more on your explantion of the attrition, it is unbelievable and well you can see you are right about the ethics too.

  45. March 21, 2011 6:25 pm

    I am with you…the turnover rate is horrendous. It is a business of vampires always looking for new blood.

  46. March 21, 2011 6:34 pm

    SYT – “It may be possible to fool people for a season, but in the long haul, their deeds will catch up with them because the truth does come out.”

    I couldn’t agree more, this is why there are so many former Triple 100, Profit sharing, RT members who have left and that are now speaking out.

    There is a good quote that fits well here: Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me. (I think this explains why everyone has bailed, they have been duped, realized it and RAN LIKE HELL).

    Or as my pal W put it:

    “Fool me once, shame on — shame on you. Fool me twice — you can’t get fooled again.”

  47. Dorothy permalink
    March 21, 2011 6:11 pm

    This commenter requested that her comments be removed from this site.

  48. TOD permalink
    March 21, 2011 7:40 pm

    and a lot of heartache.

  49. Rob Thomas permalink
    March 22, 2011 7:53 am

    webelieved –

    Stop and think what you are asking of me…
    For years, I listened to you on TEAM CD’s.
    For years, I bought into all the motivational rah-rah you preached on stage.
    For years, I believed that if I did what you told me, I would get the results you claimed you had.
    For years, I attended open meetings, seminars, and leadership conventions because I believed you when you said it’ll move my business forward.
    For years, I believed without question.
    And for years, I lost money.

    So forgive me if I have doubt in what you say now, when you show up here saying that the TEAM system is horribly broken. Thanks, but I figured that on my own when you were preaching otherwise! Your track record of honesty isn’t exactly pristine.

    I’m not here to attack you or others like you. I truely do sympathize with you. But do not question me, or feel sorry for me, if I don’t believe someone using an alias, claiming to be a former TEAM leader that lead me down a wrong path with TEAM. I believed without question before; never again.

  50. March 22, 2011 10:52 am

    Hi Amthrax, Network21 was definitely building PowerPlayer (called it Depth Charger, Team21 and some other names) but it was 100% DNA. 10 deep with 4 on System + 5 deep with 2 on System. But due to the Amway No Stacking Rule, N21 has professionally modified the method into some other forms over the last 2 years or so. But trust me, since N21 started using PowerPlayer aka Depth Charger, Team21 etc. N21 has seen a rush of FOUNDERS pins all across the world. (FOUNDERS Crown Ambassadors Jim and Nancy Dornan with FAA60 comes to mind. FOUNDERS Crown Ambassadors Peter and Debbie Cox is the next to spring into the picture… I can go on and on, but you get the gist of it. N21 is reaping the rewards of TEAM Approach. I am glad for my friends in N21!

  51. March 22, 2011 12:15 pm

    Rykel, it’s “great” to see people moving up levels, but wait…how much are they investing into the business to achieve those levels? Remember, being on system, going to seminars/major conventions, cost of gas, food, and accomodations aren’t cheap. How much money are they PUTTING OUT? How much time are they putting out? Are they working themselves to the bone? Are their work schedules similar to full time plus overtime?

    REMEMBER THIS: You are only making a profit if you’re making money over your expenses! That’s a very important factor!

    Rykel, I want you to promiseus that you will sit down and read Merchants of Deception very carefully, okay? Please? Thanks! 🙂

  52. March 22, 2011 7:27 pm

    now this was a good post…great job!

  53. Rob Thomas permalink
    March 23, 2011 5:30 am

    webelieved –

    I was with TEAM during the last year of Q*, during the leadership development service provider days, then almost 2 years with MV. The highest levels I reached was Team 25 and Star 1000. I never bought into the “bubba juice” (especially since CB made fun of it in the 1st night pack – which I thought was hilarious… make fun of it, then jump on board), so I mostly stuck around for the motivational rah-rah stuff. I enjoyed that part of the business, but realized it could be gotten elsewhere for much cheaper.

    The more I sat and watched those around me, the more I realized that its all about hype… he who can spread the most excitement and (false) hope, wins. Unfortunately, you win on the backs of those beneath you.

  54. March 23, 2011 8:50 am

    @Amthrax: Thank you for speaking up about my identity – that I am NOT Orrin Woodward! LOL

    As for stacking, I NEVER believe that it is unethical. To the contrary, I believe that it is VERY ethical, IF you do NOT allow those who saw the Plan later to join in higher the LOS. I have been VERY rigid when controlling my “Squeeze Board”, and have made EVERYONE on my team sign on the Team forms with a DATE/TIME stamp. However, like I said, for now, it is hard to police, so God forgive the leaders on my team who simply slot in latecomers above the ones who saw the Plan earlier.

  55. One time Fly that sat at the Team Conference Table permalink
    March 23, 2011 11:39 am

    This is exactly how it was explained to me.

  56. Speak Your Truth permalink
    March 23, 2011 9:09 pm

    Great points here, especially on the following of rules. It just goes to show what ego maniac’s they really are by thinking they can make the DECISIONS for what we thought was our business~ What a joke!!

  57. Hunting.Targ permalink
    March 27, 2011 2:27 am

    Just to clarify a couple facts:
    AFAIK nobody else uses Team Approach; the binary is the most common model used. You ‘get in’ two who then ‘get in two’, etc.
    And the MonaVie compensation plan has been modified to better compensate Team Approach. It is all on the MonaVie site for the public to read.

    Peace out.

  58. outsider permalink
    April 3, 2011 12:17 pm

    MLM Punisher said:
    “I can tell that we are dealing with people who have spent years doing this! I would imagine a new guy reading this would be….huh?”

    I actually am an outsider to the MLM world and I’d like to comment on that! . . .
    When a family member began slipping down the slope of a certain fruit juice company recently, I decided to investigate. For a minute I did say, “huh?”, but now I have 2 comments, and I think I’ll put them in separate posts. Below is the first.

    As an outsider, what I’d like to say to folks still involved with these distributorships is that you have lost perspective. The ex-TEAM/ex-MLM folks’ perspective is critical for you to let sink in, but on top of that, it would do you good to recognize the perspective of a complete outsider.

    When outsiders read the posts above, the striking thing we notice is the description of huge amounts of time and energy (not to mention $!) spent going in circles. Bureaucracy breeding bureaucracy. Lists generating lists. People fighting over the organization of those lists and that bureaucracy. The use of hokey buzzwords and made-up jargon fails to obscure those basic facts to the outsider. It fails to obscure the fact that there is no actual product or service involved in these “businesses.” (I mean to say that we easily see that the products involved are of little to no real importance to the “business,” beyond their value as a vehicle.)

    Please get this: If Amthrax’s original article in this thread not only makes sense to you, but sounds even remotely profitable to you, then you have absolutely lost perspective. ! If you don’t get it back, you’re in for trouble. People on the outside looking in see this quite easily. I implore you to ask an uninvolved acquaintance for an unbiased opinion; have them read this thread and tell you if you are wise to stay involved or get involved with TEAM, Am or Mv or whoever the biz-du-jour is.

  59. outsider permalink
    April 3, 2011 12:36 pm

    MLM Punisher said:
    “I can tell that we are dealing with people who have spent years doing this! I would imagine a new guy reading this would be….huh? LOL!”

    [This is my second comment.]
    As I say, I certainly did say “huh?” at first. This wasn’t because the concepts are so deep; it’s because the MLM world apparently constantly generates new jargon to describe the same old scams, er . . . business models. Therefore, my 2 cents on the matter is that all of you who are clearing away the smoke and mirrors are doing a service. Obviously you feel the same, but in case it reassures any of you of it, let me offer encouragement from the outside! It’s a good thing for you to bring light to these dark corners, so keep telling what you know!

    If you’d like to make it easier for outsiders to understand your experiences (and I get it that there are certainly other important reasons to be blogging about this!), you might consider putting together a glossary of the terms that MLM insiders are used to. That would help anyone who wants to look beyond the surface – though, trust me, the gist is enough, any way!

    . . . I can’t resist adding: Wow! While it took me about 5 minutes to recognize the scam(s), I never imagined what you all describe here (and elsewhere) so well – the immensity, the sickness – which became clear when I bothered to look beyond those first 5 minutes.

  60. Speak Your Truth permalink
    April 4, 2011 1:01 pm

    First THANK YOU for your perspective, I was just thinking today I would like Amthrax to put up a post that would allow what a ‘new person’ that would search out information and land on here. I would love others like you to share because we are not proud of this experience nor are we doing this because we have nothing better or important to do. For me at least, I do it for the HEART OF THE MATTER!
    You made some really interesting observations and it is one of the lies they get others to believe is that THE WORLD, knows they are successful and wants to know what they are doing and what they know. Well if you can get through some other posts you will find out they set up bogus “guru” sites and then tag themselves with these self-proclaimed titles, like the world nominated them. Most on here have experienced this garbage for more years more than we care to admit, so we see through their lies and deception. It takes a while but once you are not being indoctrinated with their influx of information and remove yourself from all meetings, then the clarity is there! Read the L.I.F.E SPEAK Team & their Demands,(that is the glossary of terms) it is all of the jargon or loaded language (cult experts call it) and is added to all the time. I appreciate your comments and glad you showed up because I have questioned whether this is making any impact at all, hence why I mentioned the post that I would like Amthrax to add to let us know if this is making a difference or waisting our time. I will say this has been extremely freeing to express and share our experience, in a safe-haven so to speak,with a group of people ‘who have been there’! But is it really making a difference outside of that? Thank you!

  61. Speak Your Truth permalink
    April 4, 2011 1:47 pm

    It is very promising and has made my day that you could see this for the scam it is, in 5 minutes!

    Amthax~these comments would be a great post and then maybe other ‘new people’ or others could comment on how effective this site has been for them! Thx

  62. outsider permalink
    April 5, 2011 1:21 pm

    SYT, you’re so welcome. I get it that you guys have been thru’ the mill and then some, and I think it’s sensible and honorable to try to prevent others from being hurt.

    FWIW, I must say the juice biz registered “nuf said” on my scam-o-meter PURELY after perusing that infamously old income disclosure statement which is posted on their own site!! Yikes. That was the part that took the 5 minutes. I only investigated beyond that because I figured that for some reason my family member (who I certainly hope had already read the IDS before plunking down any $!) apparently required more evidence. It’s beyond me how that alone isn’t obvious enough for anyone, but I figured I’d look and see what else I could come up with . . . if anything. . . and clearly, there’s plenty.

    So, my investigation process went something like this: Hmm, let’s check wiki in case there’s any widely known info. . . . Whoa, that’s worse than I imagined – almost too wild to be true. . . . Well, if that stuff WAS true, then there would certainly have to be quite a bit of evidence of the devastation, so let’s scout for that. . . . Uh-oh . . . and that’s where all your stories come in.

    So, thx to all of you here and at js (and other sites). [Feel free to share my comments and thx w/them.] Shining the light on this stuff is a good thing. And don’t worry, any of you, that those who come to blog about their positive MLM experiences are hurting your efforts, either. I read all that, too. As your moderators guessed, their posts do not hurt your cause; they absolutely help make your points for you.

    BTW, I wound up reading a lot more of your stories than anyone would need to just because there’s some shock involved when one glances beyond the surface! You know – Who ever asks themselves ‘Gee, I wonder what the dark and ugly nitty gritty of a long term con looks like?’ I’m so sorry that anybody knows the answer to that from personal experience!

  63. Speak Your Truth permalink
    April 5, 2011 2:00 pm

    I love your ‘scam-o-meter’ and how you describe your research!
    Thanks so much for the laughs you have no idea what that means. At first it was shock, anger/rage, tears, now I welcome all the humor I can get! It is extremely healing to say the least! I really hope you continue to show up as an outside perspective~Thank you!

  64. Speak Your Truth permalink
    April 5, 2011 5:51 pm

    The IDS~ not sure how accurate, nor do I believe they reveal how they come to their conclusions but I do know this, there is a one question survey you can or opt not to answer that asks how many hours you put into your business. So ~wouldn’t rely to much on the ‘hours worked’ because you could answer however you like or not. For the rest of the info, not sure how that data is collected?

  65. TOD permalink
    April 5, 2011 6:03 pm

    The IDS is completely irrelevant. I can show you how to hit any level on that IDS, if you are willing to spend money on enough product. I know, product loading… what a concept. I am sure that was never done in any other business.

  66. Teri Brill permalink
    May 2, 2011 8:40 am

    WOW, is the most I can say at this moment. I am in research mode. I have been dating a guy who is part of TEAM, at first I was told it was all motivational! Yippee, in these days and times who could not use a little of that. This past weekend he went to a function, three days to be exact. I called the city where it was held, the Convention Center and Visitor Bureau, after endless hours on the internet searching for this TEAM stuff. Wow, was the gentleman more than happy to talk and provide information! Next more digging! Bingo, MONAVIE JUICE, and the tactics used to sell this OVER priced, non-nutritional beverage! Sunday, became a day of reflection. How can the guy I love be involved in this “crap” pardon me. I feel he needs to be de-programmed! Thanks for letting me tell my story. At best all I can say is in these days and times, people are looking to do anything to make a fast buck, or worse. This is at the expense of well meaning people who fall prey to their tactics!

  67. May 2, 2011 9:38 am

    Glad you found my site, Teri. The best thing you can do now is to get educated about what TEAM is and what it teaches to its members. I suggest reading posts from my category about TEAM: There are a lot of posts, but you’ll quickly learn all the ins-and-outs of this organization.

  68. Speak Your Truth permalink
    May 2, 2011 10:30 am

    Welcome to the site Teri!
    You came to the right site to research the Team. Many of us on here have shared our experiences, have built the Team and have been close & personal ‘friends’ to Orrin Woodard and other Policy Counsel for years.
    Hope you are prepared, and are not too shocked after you read this site.
    Good luck in your research.

  69. Speak Your Truth permalink
    May 2, 2011 2:12 pm

    How long has your boyfriend been in?

    I really feel for you and come from the understanding perspective of being ‘in.’
    We were in for well over a decade, and it is really damaging to the mind, body and soul.
    I am not trying to scare you, just going to tell you the truth.
    It was really hard to flush this garbage and release the anger at self, them, and the guilt for bringing in so many people in; I am still working on it.

    Would you be willing to share with us the information from the gentleman that provided information for you ?

  70. Teri permalink
    May 5, 2011 11:25 am

    I can not provide the information you are asking for as the gentleman worked for the visitors bureau, a random person who was willing to speak to me, because I was in desperation mode. After I spoke with him all my digging as led me to the conclusion that this is a terrible company. Why on earth would anyone want to get involved with TEAM and Monavie Juice is well beyond my comprehension. I can see straight through the garbage they are selling. What makes me sick to my stomach is, the fact they hide behind GOD! I work hard I earn a good living, and I am proud of who I am and what I stand for. It troubles me when in this bad work force, these people are preying on others that are less fortunate, weather it be in work loss, or other circumstances. Just my thoughts, I have many more, however I am just way too worked up to talk about them right now.

  71. Speak Your Truth permalink
    May 5, 2011 3:19 pm

    Teri~ It is quite alright, he probably didn’t tell you anything we don’t know or haven’t experienced ourselves. We are with you, and that is why we are on here to help others. I believe you are figuring this out and know it will help, I am just sorry, you have to go through this. Wish there was more we could do to help. 😦

  72. Anonymous Aussie permalink
    May 7, 2011 8:34 am

    Wow. One thing impresses for sure – TEAM certainly do know how to play the game. I can’t help but repeat my previous sentiments that these people are professional pyramid hustlers, career criminals in fact.

    We’ve seen the TEAM Volume Approach (which is in direct violation of Monavie’s Policies and Procedures concerning the prohibited practices of buying rank and bonus buying, not to mention what could be considered as inventory loading) and now the Sling, Sqeeze and Side action which is just more manipulation of the system, of which clearly only a few are going to benefit and benefit TEAM in selling of their tools (which is the true and underlying business – the pyramid atop the pyramid as correctly described by Forbes), and which does not involve any remotely sustainable or legitimate business practices.

    Rykel, that we have previously educated you in how the manner in which TEAM is in violation of company policy and procedures in previous instances and with further examples of the unethical manner in which business is being conducted (and which proves they are in the business of pyramiding – NOT direct selling, with the goal being to make as much money from the participants as possible) truly beggers belief.

    People are being lured into this scam through manipulation, deceit and trickery, it is an enormous fraud, there’s no way any person capable of the most minute, rational bit of thought could defend it.

    I hope Monavie is the last point of call for TEAM and their scam is not only uncovered but finally stopped once and for all. Loathsome pieces of $hit.

  73. May 7, 2011 9:16 am

    I wish MonaVie was the the last port of call, but it looks like TEAM is ready to set sail on its own MLM ship called L.I.F.E.

  74. Anonymous Aussie permalink
    May 8, 2011 3:57 pm

    Thanks Amthrax, I did see the new article and the details of the new MLM. The trail of loss and destruction certainly appears to be continuing, as has been the case since the days at Amway. I wonder how many members of TEAM are going to follow them to the new MLM (if this indeed is going ahead), especially given most of them would have failed in Monavie…

  75. Anonymous Aussie permalink
    May 11, 2011 4:13 am

    So the tools now become the product. It’s still not going to be legal UNLESS the majority of profits from the sales of the priducts (i.e tools) to non-participants.

    It is a joke…’s unfortunate that so many people continue to fail to get the punch line and fall for the scam.

  76. August 17, 2011 8:50 pm

    I found this TEAM member’s description of Sling, squeeze and Side Action.

    Compare this with Rykel’s statement that this is not how it’s supposed to be done:

    Only thing I need to correct is that We do NOT place the earlier guys below the later guys. It would be UNFAIR to the earlier people. This wrongful practice happens frequently in binary plans and I admit that it should NOT happen. Unfortunately, it is HARD to police. Hopefully, TEAM leaders have more integrity NOT to do so. Thanks, Rykel

    and TEAM Alpha Omega:

    Once we get the “YES”, the leaders should coordinate the calls back to the MAYBE list to SQUEEZE them in before the YES. Once we get a MAYBE to become a YES… Then we have two YES’S to SQUEEZE the rest… repeat and go 10 deep in a week!

  77. gene permalink
    February 8, 2012 8:59 am

    dear God i hope i can get my money for signing up after reading all this.. i hope the thirty day money back guarantee is true..

  78. February 8, 2012 9:03 am

    @Gene – They should. Report back and tell us if they give you your money back. If you can stomach it, read the LIFE TEAM Primer for more information on TEAM LIFE.

  79. Freedomhaha permalink
    February 8, 2012 11:19 am

    Good to have you hear finding out the truth Gene! I sure hope you get your money back.

  80. February 8, 2012 11:24 am

    Gene, even if you don’t get your money back now you have no idea how much money you saved yourself by getting out now. good luck

  81. Speak Your Truth permalink
    February 8, 2012 11:42 am


    Welcome to the site and hold them to their word (good luck)..their ‘money back guarantee!’

  82. John H permalink
    February 20, 2012 2:11 pm

    Wow! These posts (and other posts elsewhere) have been very interesting. I just got through reading some initial Life material given to me by a friend. I am meeting with him this Friday. I now have some very specific questions to ask him. I am curious what his responses will be. Thank you everyone for sharing your stories. These have likely helped me avoid a bad decision!

  83. John H permalink
    February 20, 2012 7:11 pm

    webelieved – He didn’t mention Monavie at all – I found that when I did some research. We didn’t talk too much about income yet. He talked about some basic financial stuff and very loosely how the system worked (which didn’t make a lot of sense at the time). I was left wondering what the actual product was. He lent me a book to read and a couple of CD’s to listen to. I can see how this stuff would affect some people – very motivational with a lot of talk of financial freedom. I have already read through much of the information on the LIFE Primer. I think I’ve already made my decision but I still want to touch base with the person who introduced me to this. This person is not quite a ‘friend’, more of a business acquaintance who I respect. I am interested to find out how he came to embrace this kind of thing. We’ll see how it goes later this week! Thanks for your advice and encouragement.

  84. Speak Your Truth permalink
    February 20, 2012 9:07 pm

    John H~

    Their “product” IS; the Guru, CD’s, Books, Webcasts, Open Meetings, Seminars, and Major Conventions which is where they ‘sell’ more of all of it with more escalation and ‘excitement’ to capture you ’emotionally’ and at those Seminars, Webcasts, Open Meetings, and Majors they re-sell the leadership Guru’s and more CD’s, Books, Seminars & Majors, which then you repeat that to infinity or until you figure out you are going broke and broke usually comes first! Read the Comp-plan Analysis & P&P on the sidebar.

    That is it John, then you are supposed to “recruit” all your friends and family to REPEAT that process.

    The “follow-up” meeting you will be going to; Just a word of caution and what to expect; pay very close attention to a few things and the ‘reaction’ if your decision is NO. You will be surprised at the rashness, if that is your decision.

    They are very well trained in stop thinking techniques; such as answering your questions with a question but you will leave wondering what they really and more confused. They won’t answer any questions or will tell you, all your answers will be answered at the next best…’meeting or seminar’.. and will ‘pull’ you in by your ‘Dream.” That is; What-ever you told them ‘you wanted to get out of the business, when they first showed you the plan.’ They won’t forget anything that you told them and will cleverly, remind you of it.
    They will want you to ‘buy’ a “seminar or major ticket,” get you to the ‘next best’ “open meeting” or “webcast”, seminar or major to “meet” their amazingly successful or rich ‘upline’ or Guru and will leave you with some very specific cd’s and a book which is meant to grab you emotionally and convict you that what you doing isn’t working in your life; according to your personality! This is what they call “leveraging information” or getting “the system to work for them.”

    It is all done underhandedly and much scripted, unannounced to you of course, all the while the new person (you), thinks everything is just flowing naturally.

    Good Luck with your decision and thanks for sharing. 🙂

  85. February 23, 2012 9:32 am

    @John H – You can ask your friend some questions from this list of 50+ questions:

  86. John H permalink
    February 25, 2012 3:57 pm

    Amthrax – Thanks for the list of questions. I did look through them. Your site has been helpful in helping me make a decision about all of this.

  87. John H permalink
    February 25, 2012 4:14 pm

    Speak Your Truth –
    The meeting went well. I have to say I didn’t feel I was pressured unnecessarily, and when I said I wasn’t interested in pursuing this any further, I did not feel any hostility at all. I wasn’t pressured into going to a seminar or meeting. I still respect my friend and am praying and hoping that things work well for him. He seems to believe he is making a difference in people’s lives.

    It was interesting that as I was listening to him, several things from these posts came back at me – like when he explained how our regular jobs are pyramids and TEAM wasn’t a pyramid. Probably the biggest thing that made me decide not to sign up was the response to my question about the leaders’ Christianity. When I was first introduced to this whole thing I was told that the leaders were ‘solidly Christian’ and that the material being pushed was coming from a Christian perspective. Now, I am a Christian and consider my current job to be ministry related. Perhaps that is why he used that angle with me. Anyway, when I read / listened to the material he had given me, nothing jumped out at me as being particularly Christian. In fact, the biggest thing that jumped out at me was ‘materialism’. By this I mean – if I follow this plan I can have everything I’ve always wanted (no debt, no financial worries, all the ‘stuff’ I want, vacations etc.) and I can “make a difference” (whatever that means) as an add on. This does not fit into my definition of Christianity.

    When I questioned my friend about this, his response surprised me. He said (with a smile) “oh yes, they are trying to trick you” and went on to explain that if they were overtly Christian in their approach it would turn too many people off and that once they get people in they can witness to them. I think it was at that moment that I realized that this whole thing wasn’t for me. I was hoping that there was a product that I could stand behind and promote and perhaps make a little money in the process.

    Their whole product seems to be the system itself. I hope those involved are satisfied with what they are doing and are successful but people should be warned so I’m glad this website is available for people to see. This wasn’t the only factor in my decision but it certainly opened my eyes. It really plays on emotion and that is not a good way to make decisions that will affect your family and lifestyle.

    It will be interesting to see if I get another call especially after reading the above article (Sling, Squeeze and Side Action). I will have to guard against laughing out loud if that happens.

    Thanks again.

  88. Freedomhaha permalink
    February 25, 2012 4:32 pm

    John H- My Dad is a strong Christian man, and the red light came when he gave the exact response you did when seeing the plan. Inside the cult I had become blind to all the blatant materialism that existed inside it. However, men of faith see this and know to run the other way as you did. I highly commend you for that, and wish you the best in your work! God bless!

  89. CGC permalink
    February 25, 2012 7:44 pm

    John H.

    Thanks for your earnest posts. Please consider one thing you wrote:

    “I hope those involved are satisfied with what they are doing and are successful….”

    The only way for those involved to be successful is if they lure others into this house of mirrors. So maybe the real hope is that they become aware of what they are involved in, get out of it, learn from the experience and help others avoid these kinds of scams.

  90. Finally permalink
    February 26, 2012 5:11 am

    Awesome job to all on this post. John H made a solid rational decision based on his convictions instead of emotionalism, which is what they at team capitalize on. Thanks for sharing John.

    Speak, as I read your post I think back to when Orrin gave a talk on decision making and said never to make emotional decision’s, yet, his whole business plan is designed to play on your emotions. To me, that is the biggest contradiction, from a business standpoint I see. I mean Orrin says he will not make a 100 dollar financial decision unless he sleeps on it at night yet he and the rest of the team are constantly getting people to make emotional decisions in the moment i.e. the major or a seminar and buying a tool trunk or a ridiculous amount of material. Just another thought on my part.

  91. February 26, 2012 9:16 am

    @John H – Was the presentation similar to what is described in this post? Was there a heavy emphasis on making money at the beginning, concluding with the line about, “It’s not really about money,” at the end of the meeting?

  92. Speak Your Truth permalink
    February 26, 2012 1:29 pm

    John H~

    Good luck. Glad your meeting went ‘well.’ For most that would be the exception rather than the rule, and just haven’t seen too many if any continued friendships remain the same if you aren’t on the team. But I do wish you well, and most importantly I hope your friendship remains good with your friend in life.

  93. Speak Your Truth permalink
    February 26, 2012 1:53 pm


    That is the case, as in every double standard they have. It doesn’t matter what the issue or how blatant the facts. What they say and do flies, but they will change it if it works against them, at least in their minds. They will divert to one little nit pickin, irrelevant arrogant opinion they have, and won’t address what they know they have done or the facts. But what it really does is confirm just what we know and how low the games they play go, rather than address the issues, be honest with what they did and accept responsibility. I have yet to see them ever admit to the facts or even address them without spin.

    Remember, the ‘end justifies the means’. Their ‘diversion’ games; do not erase experiences nor all the relevant facts that they intentionaly ignore.

    Here is one example of how ridiculously their diversion and laughable their tactics can get, they count the number of comments someone makes..As if that has any relevance or changes, facts or content.

    But if they are going to play that game, and since it is so relevant to them, then they need to run along and count up how many comments, from Orrin’s strategic and admit why they even need the cheerleading and mirrored google..bombing blogs, and posts, or such as QRUSH = Orrin himself and all the other anonymous smear blogging campaign blogs, and comments they have dictated and carried out. Wonder how many that would add up to or how much time they would spend ‘counting’ them? Where is that tallied up at and what blog is that displayed on? Oh, that is the tactic they wouldn’t apply, to ourselves. Typical, Double Standard.

    How many of those comments, posts, and blogs had to be scrubbed because of that 25 million lawsuit they lost with Quixtar and all the disparaging comments against the company and individuals that were gossip’, according to Orrin’s half-hearted attempt and pathetic apology to explain it away; they made and then scrubbed all they could from the internet; as if that part of ‘history’, never happened?

    These guys and their filthy dirty games; play dirty and do not follow what they ‘preach’ they tell everyone else to follow Christian principles what don’t hold themselves to those same standards.

    They deliberately play dirty and so many people could prove it, they strategically plan out these dirty little games, and then execute their dirty little tactics. They try and sucker punch their ‘opponent’ or ‘enemy’, anyway they can; just like all cowards do.

    IMO, their hypocrisy is so prevalent and the most obvious and disgusting. I seriously don’t know how these guys sleep at night or look in the mirror or in their kids eyes.

    Here is the kicker, and IMO will trump all the ill intended dirty little games they have play and will continue to rack up for future reaping; for when there is no more chances to right their wrongs, they won’t be able to hide behind twisted words, lip service no longer works, blame anyone else, lie, deceive or pretend any longer.

    When it is all said and done and the end will come, as we know all things do; there will be a price to pay; among other things; They will reap what they have sown and I believe, justice will then get served.Then the glory will be were it should be.

  94. John H permalink
    February 26, 2012 2:22 pm

    Amthrax – The presentation was similar to what is described in the article you mentioned. I definitely heard the lecture on how money is made. I didn’t get all of the “dream building” stuff but I think he tailored his presentation to me and my situation specifically. When first introducing this to me, his angle was that I could make a little extra income on the side, rather than getting out of my current job. Initially, that made the whole thing more appealing. He skirted around the question of how much money he actually makes and / or spends with TEAM. Although I didn’t hear the line “it’s not really about money” directly, I was definitely left with that impression.

    He actually tried to get me to one of their meetings but I couldn’t make it due to a conflict. He admitted to me that people who go to the meetings are something like 80% more likely to sign up than if the presentation is made one on one. He definitely wasn’t totally clear on a lot of things and even though he seemed to like the material (i.e. books, CD’s, etc.) he really was pushing the system. I definitely got a few of the one-liners that I have seen throughout this blog! I had to keep from smiling every time something like that came up.

    Like I have said, it will be interesting if I hear from him again. I feel good about my decision not to join.

  95. Finally permalink
    February 27, 2012 8:27 am

    Right on speak as always:). What is more interesting is that all the anti Amthrax sites and blogs make accusations about us on here but never ever address the facts that we speak about. I am talking about first hand experiences. The latest I noticed is the link on the home page here where the blogger states that there is no debate on Amthrax and used Gregg R posts as an example. First off Gregg R is most likely a Team plant, I am convinced of that. He got specific instructions on how to post and respond. One flaw in their plan, the stuff we are speaking of is NOT debatable. We are talking from first hand experiences and factual events we have attended and witnessed. Again an attempt to divert what we say. The comp plan is not debatable it is the comp plan plain and simple. Orrin lied under oath, that also is not debatable it is factual. Many team members have filed for bankruptcy, again fact and not debatable. All the personal stories are not debatable, they actually happened. People got their teams stolen, again fact with proof. People actually had foresight and printed off their team back office screens for proof, kept the registrations forms and a whole bunch of emails and text messages, again all factual. just more tactics designed to take the attention off what they have done and continue to do. You will never see proof of income because they can’t expose their lies, you will never hear the truth about the numbers and to those that have sold their souls to Orrin and his “plan” will just continue to sink lower and lower because they have nothing else. I would loved to see Orrin shut us all up by proving us wrong and show us the actual team numbers for one month, not these early months of Lief but the 12th month. Just one month of his take and all the profit sharers. It would sure go a long way to his credibility. They are exactly what they claim the rest of the corrupt corporate world is………….ten fold.

    One more thing. I have been made aware that the Bradys did file for bankruptcy and somehow had the public records scrubbed or hid. There is an eyewitness to the paperwork but unfortunately there is not proof except the eyewitness that has seen it. I know they will never admit to it and are pretty secure in the hiding of it. If indeed they did file bankruptcy they will be forced to lie every time it comes up.

    The more people we talk to the more stories that are the same with only the faces changing………

  96. Finally permalink
    February 27, 2012 8:30 am

    Oh I also had heard that Chris Mattis did apparently go PC for a second or two. The story is that the PC found that he had cheated his way there, like Dan Hawkins did, but due to that story being publicized here they had to do something to make it look like they are on top of their teams so Mattis got tossed under the bus and suspended from speaking or participating in Team events. Business as usual on Team…………..

  97. February 27, 2012 9:39 am

    @Finally – I don’t recall there ever being a story or comment about the Mattis’ pulling a Hawkins with regards to cheating their way to PC. Most of the questions surrounding them have been in regards to their position within the line of sponsorship (LOS) when they moved over to MonaVie from Amway/Quixtar. If they got suspended by the PC, it wasn’t the result of anything posted here.

  98. Former Round Table permalink
    February 27, 2012 9:51 am

    I heard a while back that Brady filed for bankruptcy in North Carolina because there is a well-known bankruptcy attorney there named Christopher J. Brady. Consequently, any searches done for bankruptcies under that name will result in hundreds of cases, thus making it difficult to find his. I do not have proof.

  99. Speak Your Truth permalink
    February 27, 2012 11:26 am

    Former Round Table~

    The PC continually like reading Amthrax and they claim they are honest, humble, have integrity, and are godly, then perhaps Chris Brady would live up to what they claim and ‘commit’ to being Honest etc.? It is a simple yes or no question; if for no other important reason that they ‘coach’ others ‘financially.’ It would be very important and in line with their other ‘teaching’ of listening to and ‘learning’ from others experience. Also find those who know what they are talking about and have the ‘fruit on the tree.’ At least in this case it would be the ‘fruit tree’ of ‘knowledge’, right? 😉 🙂

    Perhaps Lomas will ask the question on FB so Chris B. could answer truthfully? Pretty simple. Yes or No, Did you file and claim bankruptcy? I am sure there is a ‘good’ reason and he could give us all the ‘teaching’ moment/lesson to learn from?

    That is, if in fact the Brady’s filled banckruptcy and he would be more than willing to answer honestly and be the transparent ‘leader they claim they are? 🙂

  100. Finally permalink
    February 27, 2012 12:34 pm

    Amthrax, I have heard about the Mattis situation from persons other than on here. It was presented that they were about to hit PC, as said by Orrin on Cd. The reference to this sight was that Hawkins got exposed by those in his group and the story made it on here. He did get whole groups given to him to hit PC, he also had people in his group Ghost buying systems so that he would have the required number of systems in each of his legs. That is what was brought to light on here. The talk was that the PC had to stick by the Hawkins decision to make him a PC but couldn’t allow Mattis to fake his way there. Again this come from people around the country in groups and persons associated with those involved. I do not know if we will ever know the whole truth…..

  101. ageofwisdom51 permalink
    September 11, 2012 8:28 am

    You know what they did to my kid in LIFE/team at one of the summer meetings when he was very new to it all? They stood guard over him while he was forced to ‘cold call’ 5 people… took me by surprise…and I think he was so ‘green’ that he actually told me he just wanted me to buy a book for 50 bucks…of course, by the time he called me again, I had found AMTHRAX and knew the score, and that it was really a membership with a seat saved for me at the next meeting…and so ensued the end of our family as we knew it when I said “N & O spells NO”

  102. ageofwisdom51 permalink
    October 2, 2012 12:14 pm

    Bwhahahahahhaa! You know what I found by accident today? Brad Mielke’s LIFE/Team Leadership blog, buried among the short blogs is something interesting.

    Here’s an interesting set of quotes–note the asterisked name, Larry B., who turns out to be another “leadership-connected Woodward connection:
    “Economies broken and remade, the birth of a new age, accidental discoveries that led to history in the making – THAT’S IT!!! LIFE leadership is the new economic paradigm!”

    “Our economy is smack dab in the middle of a rebirth. The internet has changed everything. I recommend you get a hold of a CD titled Economics 101 by ***Larry VanBuskirk**** where Larry describes in excellent detail what is going on in today’s economy.”

    Evidently, Orrin Woodward and Larry VanBuskirk go a few years. On the Quixtar blog page, back in 2005 when Orrin started a suit in Florida courts against Wikipedia, someone mentions Larry, too–that they wanted to know how far back Orrin’s relationship was with him. :

  103. ageofwisdom51 permalink
    October 2, 2012 12:15 pm

    Correction!! Matt Mielkd, not Brad.

  104. ageofwisdom51 permalink
    October 2, 2012 12:18 pm

    Here’s who Larry VanBuskirk is (I can’t believe Matt Mielke is still, via Orrin Woodward, using VanBuskirk in the first post stuff I had submitted):

    “Thursday, August 25, 2005
    Larry Vanbuskirk Leading the Consumer Rebellion
    The LCR staff chased down diamond Larry Vanbuskirk for some comments on his meteoric rise in the Team business. Larry is a former Financial Planner who had three “by referral only” offices in the mid-Michigan area. Larry went from Platinum, to Sapphire, to Emerald, and then to the Diamond level in consecutive years. Larry enjoys a job-optional lifestyle with his lovely wife Marsie.”

  105. sinaz permalink
    June 14, 2015 9:46 am

    There is nothing wrong with this strategy. Except for the explanation is off. In this method, you don’t just put people on the team where ever you want. It IS done by date. You allow a person that wasn’t sure to make their decision and get their spot on the team because the next person that goes on the team would be on their team had they enrolled.
    It is true that people could then think that they don’t have to do anything in the business to be successful. but it is up to you as the upline to make sure that they understand that this is not true.


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