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Penn and Teller’s Verdict on MLMs: BS

July 12, 2010

Funny yet accurate look at MLMs from comedians Penn and Teller.

One of the MLMs featured in the video was Man Cave, which I previous wrote about in the past. From the facts pointed out in the video, it doesn’t look like a front-line “advisor” or sales rep can make a lot of money just by selling products. He would need to recruit other advisors underneath him to see any substantial profits. That’s too bad, since it brings the focus not on selling products but on recruitment.

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165 Comments leave one →
  1. May 1, 2018 4:17 pm

    You know I’ve learned alot from you.

  2. Joecool permalink
    May 1, 2018 4:23 pm

    Yes, you learned that MLM = BS

  3. May 1, 2018 5:19 pm

    BTW I’m being mentored by a man who private schooled and home school his kids & paid cash for cars.
    (I’m pretty sure that’s a “net profit”🤔)

  4. Joecool permalink
    May 1, 2018 5:22 pm

    How do you private school and home school your kids? Home school = because diamonds cannot afford private school.

  5. May 8, 2018 12:31 pm

    Matt did that at 23. So did Duncan.
    For years he just lived the free life & spoke at functions.

    Now he’s riding a new wave while mentoring his own sons & daughters how to build wealth.
    Matt Duncan just cleared 6 figures bought a brand new car in his early 20s…

    Trevor Baker grew up with a free mom & dad. Now in his early 30s he created an asset that pays him seven figures

    (Should bakers have stayed in insurance and dental hygienist & owed the IRS & never helped their son see what he could achieve?)

    Are YOU teaching your offspring how to “go to the movies every day”? (Or do they have jobs? 🤔)

  6. Joecool permalink
    May 8, 2018 12:40 pm

    The only evidence of early retirement because of Amway is your statement. That’s not exactly the strongest of evidence.

  7. May 8, 2018 12:43 pm

    Look I don’t owe you any “evidence”. I’ve known the dude 26 years and he hasn’t had a JOB since I met him & he’s bought cars in cash for his Mom and sisters.
    I’ve seen pictures of the house in Colorado his sister bought & renovated (to replace the one incinerated by the wild fire)

    Give me your email I’ll send you the pictures if you like. There’s your evidence.

  8. Joecool permalink
    May 8, 2018 12:49 pm

    Running a business is still working even if you don’t have a job. Wait, why doesn’t Matt “walk away” and collect residual income?

    I know the answer to that. Do you?

  9. May 8, 2018 12:55 pm

    Answer: he DID for many years. His daughters did not know what it’s like for mom & dad to have a job. She didn’t even see them working this business much. Now they are because they are building it BIGGER.

    (Why does Grant Cardone still work? Why does Mr Wonderful still stay so busy with all his business? Why does Mark Cuban still spend so much time in his businesses? Why does Robert Kiyosaki still spend time writing books & doing seminars? Why did DJT sleep only 5-6 hours a night as a billionaire?)

    What’s Matt supposed to to? Hang around the house playing video games or going to movies?

  10. Joecool permalink
    May 8, 2018 1:05 pm

    So what have YOU accomplished in Amway? Will you still be here posting updates in a few months? I suspect you’ll be gone like all the others who came before you. Not a single IBO who debated on these forums ever returned to say they were successful and how they did it,

    I wonder why?

  11. May 8, 2018 1:11 pm

    Residual income. On going earnings. As in 6% for life (* was just increased from 4%) so I’d say that’s pretty good pay raise.

    Dad’s business. Does over a million a year (as part of his brother’s business which also does hundreds of thousands annually). How much time does he spend in that business? Hardly any.
    His sister’s business. She’s a multi millionaire. How much time does he spend in that business? Hardly any

    Many Yamamoto (a financial planner) just went Diamond. How much time do you think Matt & Sandee need to spend in that business?

    Matt doesn’t spend any time on me (*I’m mentored by his brother Ken). Guess what. He makes 6% of all my purchases, my customer orders & my ibos orders.

    I know about residuals because I get them from my advertise business.

    Looking to build it bigger. Along with building the network that will earn me a million a year.

  12. May 8, 2018 1:13 pm

    WHY? Because they decided they have better things to do. 😉

    Email me your W-2/ 1099 and I’ll hit you back in a year with mine. makstores@yahoo.com.

    Still waiting for your proof of 4000 PV double eagle. Show me the money Jerry.

  13. May 8, 2018 1:30 pm

    What have YOU. accomplished in Amway that makes you such an expert?? 🤔🤔

  14. May 8, 2018 1:33 pm

    Are you kidding me?? Who wants to be a salesman? Nobody!

    You’re missing the whole point & do not understand the how and why of network marketing. SMH 🙄

  15. May 8, 2018 1:56 pm

    Matt & Sandee make more money in a month than I do in a year (- & probably you too).

    Should she go back to being in debt & working as a VP at a bank?

    Maybe Matt should have stuck with being a bartender or a manager of a parking company.
    😉

  16. Joecool permalink
    May 8, 2018 2:23 pm

    “”What have YOU. accomplished in Amway that makes you such an expert??””

    I was at 4000 PV with eagle parameters. I believe that means I achieved more than you have. And no, I don’t have any financial papers to back it up as that was 20 years ago. But then again, the forum is filled with claims you’ve made with nothing to back it up.

  17. Joecool permalink
    May 8, 2018 2:27 pm

    “”Matt & Sandee make more money in a month than I do in a year (- & probably you too).””

    You already admitted you haven’t seen their financials so how would you know?

    Look, nobody is disputing that a qualified founder’s diamond or whatever might make good money. but Amway doesn’t say who is currently qualified. They only advertise new diamonds.

    Also, as evidenced by Greg Duncan, making a large income doesn’t mean you know how to manage it well.

  18. May 8, 2018 2:31 pm

    Hahaaa 🤣. Ken was right. He said (about you) “sounds like he’s living in the 90s”. Spot on!.
    (I bet you still have boxes of cassette tapes or CDs laying around)..

    Well just like you I have no financial records of my income from Amway (they’re in the future 😉).

    Yeah keep living in the past & be proud of your accomplishments.

    4000 PV (failed to thrive) business from the 90s knows nothing about today’s business or current trends. I’d forward you some audios files but you probably don’t know how to play them.

    I’ll show you my financial records (from my advertising business & my Amway business) when you show me yours.

    As for me I’ll keep listening to my (successful) mentor. He’s (obviously) very wise & went WAY past “4000”. He’s made six figures. Coached his own dad & mom to make $165,000 a year.

    (So. Can you teach me to do that? 🤔)

  19. May 8, 2018 2:38 pm

    And? Is Greg Duncan mentoring me? No!

    (& What about Bill & Sandy Hawkins Samir Atallah, Leslie Walgomott or Tracey Eaton. I’ve yet to see you mention any problems thtyve had financially).

    All I do know is Ken and Melanie own a house in Manoa (“close to all the action”). Matt & Sandee just bought a property on 2.5 acres. And they don’t have jobs.

    So that’s good enough for me.

  20. Joecool permalink
    May 8, 2018 4:18 pm

    “””As for me I’ll keep listening to my (successful) mentor. He’s (obviously) very wise & went WAY past “4000”. He’s made six figures. Coached his own dad & mom to make $165,000 a year.”””

    I made more than that for making comments about Amway. See how that works?

    Greg might not be mentoring you, but he is uplilne of Matt, who would possibly seek counsel from Greg.

    Leslie Wolgamott? What happened to Brad? I remember Brad teaching about how Amway and WWDB saves marriages.

  21. Joecool permalink
    May 8, 2018 4:20 pm

    I don’t have a job and I own 2 homes in Kailua Oahu. Go look up the value of Kailua homes. 🙂

  22. May 8, 2018 5:19 pm

    Again your hypocrisy shows.
    To new candidates I would say “beware people who (make their living by) posting negative remarks about Amway online (but they themselves never did even go platimum).

    So you’re just a useless washed up scammer who makes money off ads on a website trashing somebody else’s business

    👏

  23. May 8, 2018 5:29 pm

    😂🤣🤣. More laughs for the clueless one who doesn’t know $##$ about Amway, let alone wwdb.

    (Apparently you weren’t even paying attention (& probably in your whole what 9 months in the business went to all of one major function?)

    Anybody who’s been around wwdb would know Duncan is upline from Walgomott (who if you listen to the tapes would know they had a bad marriage. Mr GQ was too much for miss Leslie I guess. (Who got the house and the business? Leslie. Brad got to stay in the guest house studio with a hot plate & start over. Kicked out if wwdb). Duncan downline from woodhead and Severn and Puryears. (Jim just inherited a huge business in addition to his Ruby business. Did you go Ruby? No? Ok)

    Everyone in wwdb knows Tsuruda is not downline from Duncan. He was sponsored by someone who introduced him upline to Wood’s who passed up his sponsor and his sponsors sponsors sponsors sponsors to be mentored by Toshi Taba who brought wwdb to Hawaii.

    Everyone in wwdb knew Toshi Taba.

    And I was beginning to think you were just an honest frustrated quitter.

    SMH 🙄

    Scammer calling an honest business man a scammer

    Unbelievable

  24. May 8, 2018 6:41 pm

    You “own them” or you mortgage them ? 🤔

  25. May 9, 2018 10:33 am

    Good for you 😉.
    (So why you in here complaining about Amway? 🤔)

  26. Joecool permalink
    May 21, 2018 9:16 am

    I own one home outright and have a few years left to pay off the other home. My rental income covers the mortgage anyway so my cash flow is just fine.

  27. May 21, 2018 9:33 am

    You sure spend alot of time justifying yourself.

  28. Joecool permalink
    May 21, 2018 12:27 pm

    You spend more time trying to justify Amway diamonds.

    BTW, I was gone for the last ten days staying in a great hotel room in Las Vegas.

    First class vacation.

  29. May 21, 2018 1:54 pm

    I don’t need to try to justify them. I’m sure the lobster & steak on those FREE TRIPS taste just as good wether I’m here or not!

    (& Las Vegas?? That’s a free platimum business trip to anybody who made 7500 for the year. Oh well. Oops you never made it. You quit! 🤣🤣🤣🤣)

  30. Joecool permalink
    May 21, 2018 3:29 pm

    I don’t need free trips. I can afford to pay for my own vacations.

  31. May 21, 2018 3:31 pm

    So can any platinum or diamond 😉

    (& You could not pay for the kind of travel Amway provides to Peter island, south Africa or Greece. )

  32. Joecool permalink
    May 21, 2018 5:06 pm

    Who actually goes to Peter Island? You’d be surprised to see how few people actually qualify for that trip. And yeah, people can pay to go there unless Amway puts a restriction on guests. You have to assume that tourism is what drives the business on that island.

  33. May 22, 2018 1:09 am

    Uhm. Anyone who qualifies as diamond gets the trip. And anyone who is a diamond and has a qualified downline also.
    (Yes it’s a resort (brilliant deduction Sherlock) where hamburgers cost $25. Most people get there by boat. (either a chartee boat or their own sail boat or yacht)
    Amway flew Brad Duncan and their qualified downlownline Bob & Shelly Summer (a retired mci executive) across the country on their own private customized 737 (you don’t travel in one of those do you?) And then they get flown by private helicopter to Peter island (like I said most guests have to get there by boat from St Thomas).

    Greg Duncan (yes the now famously bankrupt G D) gets flown to Europe on a private jet with sleeper lounge where they provide pajamas and serve you steak & eggs for breakfast when you arrive across the ocean.

    At $50,000 per trip I seriously doubt you can (or ever have traveled that way buddy. )

    Matt’s been to Peter island several times BTW.

  34. May 22, 2018 1:31 am

    Who goes to Peter island? Only those who QUALIFY 😉(AND it ain’t 4000 pins in case you were wondering. Brad’s been going there since 30 years ago. The staff know him & Julie by name.)
    Yeah anybody with a boat & money for like $10,000 a night & $25 cheeseburger can pay their own way to stay there. Amway sends SUCCESSFUL ibos (not the ones who quit or fail) all expenses paid including first class or private jet to St Thomas and helicopter to the island. That includes all meals and excursion activities.

    (And you’d be surprised how few people in America make over $40,000 a month from any other job or business).

    You didn’t make $400,000-600,000 a year at your j j job did you? (No. You could not afford the (7?) CDs every week. That’s why you quit!!)

  35. May 22, 2018 8:38 am

    Well definitely not you or people who think like you do. I’ve received post cards from Peter island & I plan to go.

    Too bad you quit.

    Can’t wait to be flown in private jumbo jet & helicopter & enjoy all the free food & excursions.

  36. Joecool permalink
    May 22, 2018 9:17 am

    I inquired about how many people went to diamond club in Hawaii a few years ago. There were 160 people in attendance. That includes spouses and children. That’s not a lot of diamonds but of course maybe thousands of diamonds on the mainland US turned down a free diamond club trip to Hawaii. Not!

  37. May 22, 2018 9:20 am

    Oh really?? You inquired with whom??

    And most diamonds don’t bring their kinds but some do. So what if it’s 40-50 people or even 30 who get invited (& yes I know bill & Peggy Britt turned it down on occasion so not every diamond goes every time. )

  38. May 22, 2018 10:33 am

    Not everybody goes diamond. That’s why it’s called “diamond club”. It’s exclusive! 😉

    And you don’t need to be a diamond to make more money than most job people. A platinum with just 12 legs can make $16,000 a month.
    Matt’s dad & mom make $165,000 as rubies.

    (So what was your miserable point … about diamond club? 🤔)

  39. Joecool permalink
    May 22, 2018 10:38 am

    I inquired with the Hotel. Some of this information is public knowledge.

    So if there are so many diamonds, are most of them turning down free trips to Hawaii?

    Or maybe there just aren’t as many diamonds as you thought?

  40. May 22, 2018 10:41 am

    And. This (the number of attendees at diamond club) is so important because…..?

  41. May 22, 2018 11:58 am

    The number of diamonds doesn’t matter (to me or anybody else)
    When Ron Puryears started there were NO diamonds on the west coast. When Toshi Taba started there were no platinums in Hawaii.

    So? What’s your point?..

    For every Diamond there are dozens of platinums (making over $50,000 a year)

    And hundreds of people getting Debt free and mom’s home from work (& dozens of future platimum & diamond businesses).

    So quit complaining about what somebody else did to get rich. Geez.

  42. Joecool permalink
    May 23, 2018 9:40 am

    The number of diamonds is significant because Amway’s revenues can only support so many. Amway’s revenue in 2013 was 11.8 billion and 8.6 billion in 2017. That’s a huge decline.

    For every diamond, there aren’t necessarily “dozens” of downline platinums. And they might gross $50k but after business expenses, they make much less.

    So what have YOU accomplished in Amway under your “awesome” mentor so far?

  43. May 23, 2018 11:00 am

    You don’t even get it do you. Amway doesn’t need revenue in order to “support diamonds”
    Plenty of revenue from emeralds and saohires rubies (& even 4000s).

    Diamonds by definition generate at least $3,000,000-$4,000,000 each per year

    (And, yes, it takes at least 6 platimum legs to be a diamond. Tell me how many bonus checks minimum do you need to go diamond?)

  44. Joecool permalink
    May 23, 2018 11:19 am

    If Amway revenues are down, then they have less sales. Less sales means less bonuses and less bonuses means less diamonds when you’re talking about billions of dollars.

    Why are there so few diamonds in WWDB? There were more diamonds around when I was an IBO than now.

  45. May 23, 2018 11:37 am

    Actually they’ve increased the bonuses sir. From.4% to 6% (which means emeralds & diamonds just got a 50% raise! 😎)

  46. Joecool permalink
    May 23, 2018 11:55 am

    And the bonuses just come from YOUR product purchases. Because the Amway products carry the cost of those bonuses, Amway has to overcharge for their products and the only beneficiaries are the diamonds who get the lion’s share of the bonuses, plus they sell you tools and functions so they can motivate you to keep giving them money.

    What have YOU accomplished in Amway under your incredible mentors?

  47. May 23, 2018 11:58 am

    Man you are just amusing. You are like a cat with a laser pointer.

    I gotta go. Spend my time more predictively

    Bye

  48. May 23, 2018 12:04 pm

    “6%” is the Lions share ha? 🤔

    What about the other 25%? That’s how much a platinum makes. (& 4000s get 21%. That’s 3 1/2 times more than a diamond makes)

    Dude you amaze me. Let me lay some Truth on you: Amway doesn’t need diamonds to be successful & you don’t need to go diamond to make any money. Matt’s dad & mom Kenji & Mildred make over $150,000. (they get 31% as rubies. Ken gets 6% of their $60,000 a month business. You do the math. )
    I’m sure Matt gets some other smaller bonus or pass up volume off of that leg.

    Sheesh. You don’t even know what the different profits are.

  49. Joecool permalink
    May 23, 2018 12:09 pm

    You keep quoting the income that you “think” some people are making. But the reality is you don’t know. Knowing how the Amway bonuses are not important to me and for most people. All I know that is about 1 in 400 reach platinum (amway.com) and many platinums fail to re-qualify.

    My upline diamond was Harimoto and I knew all of his original platinums. None of them are around and they aren’t even in the Amway business anymore. Why do you think that is?

  50. May 23, 2018 12:10 pm

    I didn’t say Joe Cool was not successful. I congratulated him & wished him the best.

    Hey Tony you know what the difference between you and Brad is?

  51. May 23, 2018 12:18 pm

    Yeah sure is a nice 3 story house Scotty built for his family there in Hawaii. (Should he have stayed an engineer? My favorite part of his tape was when his boss “denied permission” for time off. So he retired 😂😂😂)..
    My sponsor went direct and then quit. So now all my volume goes up to Ken & Matt makes a nice 6% on my $200 a month in personal purchases)

    (And, as in my case, when the front line quits it usually leaves the others around so platinum makes even more money! 😉).

    I can’t wait to go to my sponsor and tell him the news that I’m a Ruby. (That’s over $2000 a month he’ll miss out on)

    (So what was YOUR excuse??)

  52. Joecool permalink
    May 23, 2018 12:32 pm

    So why did Harimoto (an ocean lover) move to Washington State? Taxes too high here? Not enough people to recruit in Hawaii?

    I didn’t need an excuse. My decision to quit Amway was a business decision. Amway didn’t pay out what was expected at the 4000 level so why keep working hard to break even?

    I did just fine in the working world and I am now a young retiree with a nice retirement income and valuable assets in excess of a million dollars.

  53. May 23, 2018 12:37 pm

    Toshi Taba did the same thing. Hawaii is an extremely libtard run high tax state.
    (& He doesn’t need to “recruit” anybody. That’s not how it works)

    Why did Mike & Michi Woods move to (a mansion in) Texas?

  54. May 23, 2018 12:46 pm

    Funny this whole page is based on tearing down what someone else DiD DO (but which you couldn’t.)

    Winners don’t need excuses & quitters only need one.

    Mandy Yamamoto (Hawaii’s newest diamond had her car and cell phone taken away by her parents when she decided to build it as a young lady. She did it anyway.

    I’ve been through hell and back (in my personal situations). I’m gonna build it anyway.

    I’ll be counted among the winners. Not the losers & the quitters.

    You’ve proven the best thing a whiner and quitter can do for his upline (& the whole team) is QUIT!

    I wouldn’t want none (any) of you on my team. No way. Absolute poison.

  55. May 23, 2018 12:59 pm

    Please don’t misunderstand me I’m not saying Joe Cool is a loser. He made a decision that was right for him (& it worked out ok) & I really respect that. (It’s the schmarmy guys like Tony that drive me crazy).

    But if y’all happy with the decision to QUIT then quit knocking those who DIDN’T quit, DIDN’T make excuses, didn’t whine & complain & decided to STAY with the dream and DID IT!

    (BTW I didn’t get in to go 4000. I saw $2000-4000 at platinum and decided that was the deal for me ok)

  56. Joecool permalink
    May 23, 2018 1:04 pm

    You can “gross” $2000 a month at platinum, maybe more. But as your business grows, and you start to reach 2500 and higher, you will find that you have more expectations and more business expenses. Of course your upline won’t reveal this to you upfront.

    And based on Amway information, those who reach platinum are like 1 in 400. What makes you think you’re the 1?

  57. May 23, 2018 1:18 pm

    You can’t spend more than $4000 a year on core. I ran the figures based in your claim and it barely broke $5000.

    So let’s see. $30,000 a year minus $5000 = $25,000 (& $30,000 is a weak platimum. You got 12 bonus checks (like we showed in the plan) you’d gross more like $50,000.

    More expenses might mean more airline tickets. Maybe a few more books (we don’t use CDs anymore. Everything is digital now )
    My core costs are less than $200 a month.

  58. Joecool permalink
    May 23, 2018 1:25 pm

    If I take 4 trips for major functions from Hawaii to the mainland, the airfare, hotels, rental cars and function tickets easily exceed $5000. And that’s only for those 4 functions.

  59. May 23, 2018 1:32 pm

    If you build it right (& teach your people) it’s 50-100 ibos (I never can do less than 75 pv personal use & I’m single). So if it’s 100 PV – 300 PV prr ibo you do the math!.

    Like I said a platinum makes $40,000-60,000 or more and he’s got 4000s making $2000 a month & 2500s making $400 a month & 1000s making $200-300 and so on. Everybody wins. Don’t wanna buy the CDs don’t do it! I’ve been a wholesale user for many years (& I’ll NEVER go another day with double x. )

    I enjoy the products (& so do my customers who ask me for them)

    Nuff said

  60. May 23, 2018 1:59 pm

    Dream night is local 😉

    Airfare from the mainland is $300-700 depending when you book it. So $2000 a year is reasonable for air. Don’t need to rent a car if you stay by the coliseum or rideshare (& tentative cars can be gotten for $36 a day)
    So $400 for rent a car & usually $60-80 for hotel which you can split with someone.
    So let’s say $200 hotel X 3 that’s $600 for the year. $300 for rental car now you’re at 3000 annual travel for functions plus your $3000 for CDs (7 a week? Really?? Lot a good it did ya. Did you open and actually listen to yjr info?)
    So function tickets were barely $100 back in the 1900s. So you’re at Max $6000 for the year. That’s $500 a month.

  61. Joecool permalink
    May 23, 2018 2:59 pm

    Yes, but WWDB leaders, at least in the past, encouraged IBO’s to purchase additional function tickets. So your $75 dream night could be $450. Your family reunion could be $750, if you did as your upline advised. And there are other things that upline advised that caused more expenses.

    Not surprising when the WWDB upline was profiting from these additional expenses.

  62. Joecool permalink
    May 23, 2018 3:05 pm

    Most Amway IBO’s never sponsor a single person. And even if you sponsor some people, chances are they will do nothing and quit. How can a sustainable business be built with those factors?

  63. May 23, 2018 3:15 pm

    Joe that’s ridiculous. I’m gonna call you on that. If you bought 5 function tickets (& didn’t sell them) that’s your stupid fault. That’s totally flipping ridiculous. A dream night costs $75 (& it’s local) and family reunion is $125…

    Why don’t we talk about those “make money like a shark” seminars where they bring out Mr wonderful and teach you just enough about how you can make thousands a month trading stocks & options working just ten minutes a day. (only $997 for 3 day workshop if you sign up now)

    Or Grant Cardone “10X seminar” for $3995.

    NOBODY is “getting rich” off of wwdb $20 functions dude. Gimme a break 🙄

    (So how many Ferraris do you think Duncan bought with “speaking fees”? Do you really think that’s how Matt paid his $20,000 rent last month for that house on the water on North shore??)..

    If YOU lost money buying extra function tickets (& bought 7-8 CDs a week) then you’re stupid.

  64. May 23, 2018 3:51 pm

    Well that’s doing it WRONG!! How successful would any business be if they didn’t adequately staff it or train their people?

    (& You know what? Most people don’t make any money in real estate & many people QUIT. So is real estate a bad deal? What about the car business? Most people make less than $45,000 a year there and many QUIT. Should the dealership close their doors?)

    (Oh yeah. The OWNER is the one making the “lion share” of the money).

    Dude you’ve obviously never owned any successful business.

    (Oh and BTW Netflix is currently LOSING MONEY. How’s that working out for the shareholders? Should they quit too? Amazon LOST money until about 10 years ago)

    And how come Brad Duncan & Greg Duncan & Brad Walgomott & Scott Harimoto (see there’s a perfect example of DOZENS of platinums on one leg. Severn diamknd Duncan.diamomd Duncan. Diamond Walgomott diamond. . Harimoto. Diamond (how come none of them ever complained about the cost of CORE?)

    Matt never complained (he was a 21 yr old student. He managed to go to all major functions and be at 7500 within 7 months). His brother did it in 12 months. His sister did it in 4 months. None of them ever complained about the cost of flying to the mainland or paying for core.

    Thank you for teaching me the difference between winners & losers buddy.

    I’ll remember NOT to sponsor guys like you (& if they want to quit let em QUIT).

    None of these issues ever bothers a Tsuruda or a Duncan or a Puryear or a Baker. Now their next generation continues the legacy.

    What have you got? (As far as legacy)

  65. May 23, 2018 4:05 pm

    Yeah and most IBOs don’t go buying 7-8 CDs a week or buying 4-5 extra function tickets they can’t resell.
    (And that “most” includes people like me who most of the time just enjoy buying products they like anyway & have a few friends they’ve met from the business. My sponsor or platimum NEVER had me buying 7 CDs a week or 5 extra dream night tickets. That’s ridiculing).

    So just enjoy your retirement from your j j job and quit complaining ALREADY.

  66. May 23, 2018 4:35 pm

    Remember the 49ers a couple years ago?
    What’s the difference? Right coach. Right players.

    Build a winning team (& it starts with the leader which you aren’t! & I doubt your mentor was successful if he actually gave you such bad advice. 7 CDs a week? I heard one extra a week once from stage. Nobody ever told ME to bulk up on 5 extra dream night tickets. Brad Duncan slept in his car at functions. Wokgamott slept in the floor at Scott’s house instep of paying hotels )

    All the winners had in common is they all paid the price, did it RIGHT & didn’t quit.

    I respect any quitter who makes the right decision for their life. But there’s a HUGE difference between “whining’ & winning. Duh.

    I’m so glad I learned alot from you who NOT to make an offer to & who NOT to spend my time with!

  67. Joecool permalink
    May 23, 2018 4:47 pm

    You’re criticizing me, but that’s what WWDB was teaching back when I was a IBO.

    And you’re right, it was partly my fault but as a fairly new IBO, how as I to know what was good or bad advice at the time? I was told to listen to upline and they would teach us how to be successful.

    So with your awesome mentors in Amway, what have YOU accomplished?

  68. Joecool permalink
    May 23, 2018 4:48 pm

    And BTW, the 49ers still suck. They were 6-10 this past season.

  69. May 23, 2018 4:53 pm

    “wwdb” NEVER taught that (4 extra function tickets or 7 EXTRA CDs). NOT standard teaching. Now if YOUR sponsor taught you that I’d like to know a) how long you were in and b) how long that person was in and was it a fully qualified platimum teaching you that??

  70. May 23, 2018 5:02 pm

    Dude they we’re undefeated under their new starter (who went undefeated in fox borough as well). Under the new coach and new LEADER under center they beat every playoff team and we’re the only team with the perfect record down the stretch after mid season. .
    (And, as we tried to explain to those krapernik fans it’s called LEADERSHIP. Now #25 signed and many other because of who’s starting at QB and (yes every season is starting over at the grind).
    But I guess you somehow missed the point just like you MISSED the whole point of buying from yourself, attracting a few clients and then DULPICATING that (& I can tell right now you were NOT teachable so that means you were not 10/10 core. How long were you in before you hit 4000 (*& was half of that down one leg?) How long did you remain at 4000?
    (A year? 3 months? How long you stay at 4000 before you packed up your toys & went home?)

  71. May 23, 2018 5:04 pm

    Uhm. Elite players with Superbowl wins (like Sherman) don’t sign with loser teams.

    There’s a momentum there and it’s centered around the winning coach & leader QB.

  72. May 23, 2018 5:13 pm

    I went 2500 and MADE $$. ABOVE and beyond the cost of my CDs. (I had up to I think 9 bonus checks at one time).

    (Remember width is profitability. Depth is security. I would LOVE for a whiner 4000 to quit & leave me 6 FRONT line IBOs, half of whom (according to you and your eagle claim) are going to the majors.)

    Like I said we have a process for vetting people now. We don’t just “sign people up” (& watch them quit or fail).

    First red flag I’d watch out for is people like you. Very dangerous for wasting my time & for associating with the organization. (can’t build a championship around a negative locker room. Just ask krapernik. He took a winning team & torched it. Now he’s gone & they went undefeated under a new leader )..
    .so good luck & enjoy your retirement.

  73. May 23, 2018 5:50 pm

    BTW airfare from Hawaii to Portland is ONLY $400. X3 majors is $1200..
    So $250 a month (on 7 CDs. Did you actually LISTEN to them??
    + $100 average monthly cost of functions
    + $100 monthly average air travel
    + $100 average monthly hotel & car rental

    (How did you get to $1000 a month on cost of CORE??)

    And how did you NOT make money at 4000 PV with six checks & 10 customers?

    I just viewed a new IBO checks on Kate. One for $588 for her PV check + $288 for her fast track bonus. Looks beautiful with that new logo & those hundreds of $$$. (Did you get fast track? Did you have 150 in retail & personal use? )

  74. Joecool permalink
    May 24, 2018 9:25 am

    Richard Sherman is no longer “elite”. He is on the wrong side of 30 and he has achilles problems.

  75. Joecool permalink
    May 24, 2018 9:26 am

    WWDB never taught to buy extra functions? I guess I must have been hearing things when the Duncans taught it. Buy extra tickets in case the function sells out. You don’t want yout downline missing out on this valuable teaching.

  76. Joecool permalink
    May 24, 2018 9:27 am

    What planet are you from? How did San Fran go 6-10 and you turn that into undefeated?

  77. Joecool permalink
    May 24, 2018 9:29 am

    “”” I would LOVE for a whiner 4000 to quit & leave me 6 FRONT line IBOs, half of whom (according to you and your eagle claim) are going to the majors.)”””

    Except when I quit, I told my downline why I was leaving and they left with me. My upline went from platinum down to 2500. 🙂

  78. May 24, 2018 9:33 am

    One of the smartest DBs ever! And yesterday he was coaching up the younger guys on their game. Hey!

    Association & experience. What’s that worth?
    (Apparently it was lost on you because, if you’re as brilliant as you pretend to be you’d be passing up Scotty & be hanging with B Duncan at his penthouse (in the city “where all the action is”)

    Last month Trevor Baker (yes that DOUBLE DIAMOND sonof EDCs Glen & Joya) was hanging with Matt (at his house on the beach in Hawaii).

  79. May 24, 2018 9:35 am

    Yeah well the key is to HAVE DOWNLINE to offer tickets TO
    (But you’re probably like “most people” & never sponsored anybody)

  80. May 24, 2018 9:39 am

    Well there ya go Sherlock. You’re a brilliant selfish dream stealer .shame on you.
    Even if Ken himself told me to quit I wouldn’t do it. Cuz its MY dream

    (& If you sponsored a bunch of quitters (* & you violated the #1 cardinal rule) no WONDER why it “didn’t work” for you. You got exacto what you deserved)

    As for me Brad Duncan is gonna know my name & see my house on the lake.

    Thank you again for motivating me!

    See ya!!!

  81. Joecool permalink
    May 24, 2018 9:58 am

    For your information, I had 12 front line IBOs downline.

    I build my business with the parameters that were considered “solid” by upline. But they also advised hyper consumption of training and tools which put my profits into their pockets.

    Now sure why you can’t see this.

  82. Joecool permalink
    May 24, 2018 9:59 am

    When you buy from yourself, that isn’t some kind of magical business transaction. You just became a customer of Amway. Only when you actually sell something to a real customer at a profit are you actually running a business.

  83. May 24, 2018 10:06 am

    Man the problem with you is you don’t PAY ATTENTION! (You probably did NOT hear the part from a CD or stage where you are instructed to “check with your upline” for your particular situation)
    I WROTE “DOWN THE STRETCH”!
    MEANING: the final 5 games of the season. Only team they went undefeated, even beating every playoff team they faced. (*under new LEADER Jimmy G. Same exact team that went 1-10 before he took over. Get it??)

    The reason you failed is YOU (NOT the cost of the CDs– if they cost too much THEN DON’T BUY THEM ). WHEN I decided I couldn’t do it I stayed in as a wholesale customer (& never ever would I ever go without double x – done it a couple times and it was a noticeable difference!!).

    I just got sick of seeing everybody else win & decided “WHY not me??”

  84. May 24, 2018 10:09 am

    No sh## Sherlock. Boy you’re a genius! 🙄
    That’s why Amway had the 10 customers rule which they changed to 50 PV
    (I can guarantee you weren’t even doing that and THAT’S why you didn’t make any money)

  85. May 24, 2018 10:19 am

    Matt did that (& made millions & flew private jet to New York with Ron & GL & spend all day surfing & being with his family. )
    Now he’s going from millions to BILLIONS & passing on the legacy to his daughters who he is mentoring as well as people like Ken & me.

    (So what’s your legacy? 🤔)

  86. May 24, 2018 10:42 am

    See the problem with you is you think you know it all (*& I laugh & laugh at what you DON’T know).

    I know the answer to why Bradley David Duncan (who spends more money on taking people out to dinner than you make all year) is now hitting it 5-6 nights a week (when he’s not on a free vacation to places like Scottland & South Africa or Peter Island (where they all know his name. How many five star resort staff know your name? 🤔) .
    Do you?

  87. Joecool permalink
    May 24, 2018 12:17 pm

    So you bought into the hype of Jimmy G String? The 49ers played better but they also played some weak teams and a team that played their practice squad before the playoffs.

    I would hold off on buying super bowl tickets.

  88. Joecool permalink
    May 24, 2018 12:20 pm

    You keep on arguing that I failed. Well, I didn’t fail. I built my business to 4000 as I was advised by WWDB leaders. I had the parameters and I had profits. But the same WWDB leaders advised me to spend all profit back into tools (which they profit from). So I achieved my objective but my net profit was basically nothing.

    So I made a business decision to quit.

    Basically, your WWDB leaders failed me. And you weren’t there so don’t make up stuff about what I was or wasn’t taught.

  89. Joecool permalink
    May 24, 2018 12:23 pm

    You keep dodging the fact that buying from yourself does nothing for your business.

    If you have $20 and you spend $10 on energy drinks, Amway makes a profit and your upline possibly makes some profit off your volume.

    But you made nothing. Any perceived profit you think you made actually came out of your own pocket. That $20 you spend came from your job.

    You are only making a true profit when you have actual customers who put money into the system.

    If not you are spinning your wheels thinking you made a profit but in the end, you are just a glorified customer.

  90. May 25, 2018 8:04 am

    Uhm. They played like 3 playoffs teams and beat them all.

    Other players with Superbowl credentials only signed because of him. It’s called LEADERSHIP.

    Something you obviously never learned.

  91. May 25, 2018 8:38 am

    No. You failed. (& Blame it on somebody else. Typical). Now if your mentor/ coach was that bad I feel sorry for him and you.

    Again why is it Scotty didn’t worry about or complain about the cost of building his dream?
    I wonder if wogs complained about having to fly to Hawaii just for the weekend to help Scotty?

    How come Brad and Greg didn’t complain?
    What about Sears or Yuen or Alcott or Eaton?
    How come they made it (& paid the price for success? Why did Trevor Baker not complain & quit? He started out in Las Vegas when it was nothing. Now he makes a million a year & doubled function turn out got his own family reunion.

    So how come they (with the same tools & opportunity) made it & you didn’t?

    (I know the answer)

  92. Joecool permalink
    May 25, 2018 10:09 am

    49ers beat the bears and texans. Both had losing records. They got a lucky win against the Titans who are a marginal playoff team. They beat a decent Jacksonville team then they closed the season against the Rams practice squad.

    That is improvement, but hardly enough information to say they are suddenly a good team.

  93. Joecool permalink
    May 25, 2018 10:12 am

    How come Brad got divorced when I sat in a function where he said Amway saves marriages?

    How come Greg had loans and went bankrupt when I sat in a function where he said only stupid people take out loans?

    These are the people who were giving bad advice like buying extra function tickets.

    They used to talk about the fruit on the tree. The fruit is divorce and bankruptcy. Makes sense that they might have given bad advice based on their fruit.

  94. May 25, 2018 10:23 am

    Oook

    Let me give you two actual case in point examples.

    I bought a suit from Fredrick’s menswear. (Same suit. Same price anybody can go online or buy from their catalog. Suit came with PV/BV. So if a suit comes with 20 points & I got 1000 guys in my group buying a suit that’s 20,000 PV on ONE suit. Duplicated 1000 x

    Get it? What’s the profits on 20,000 pv? (Oh you wouldn’t know you never did 20,000 PV)

    I’m taking concentrated fruits & veggies. Learned it from Ken’s example in the plan. I’m at my mom’s house & she sees me taking it and SAYS……

  95. Joecool permalink
    May 25, 2018 12:23 pm

    OK, I get your suit example. Except you miss my point. In order to pay bonuses, Amway has got to charge extra for their products, especially items like suits where they come from a third party (Amway doesn’t make suits as far as I know) so you and your 1000 guys will be paying way more for those suits than the amount of bonus it will generate.

    So yeah 1 guy might be happy with the 20,000 PV, but more than likely, the 1000 who also bought suits will have paid more for a suit and got hardly anything back for it.

  96. Joecool permalink
    May 25, 2018 12:24 pm

    How come you ignored my post at 10:12?

  97. May 25, 2018 12:32 pm

    Uhm. No they don’t! 80% of the time the anyway owned brands will save you money at the retail price (*my mouth wash cost $5. Last 3 months. Scope costs the same. Barely lasts a month).

    Double x can’t be purchased anywhere else & nothing else compares.

    XS costs near same price as red bullcrap. But is WAY Better and not all the sugar.

    As an in get it at 30% less. Not including the bonuses up to 25% more back.

    Tide and scope pay for expensive ads on TV. Amway doesn’t.
    Tide & those have fillers. SA8 doesn’t.

    (Apparently you didn’t even do much research or personal use. )

    My customer asks me for XS. I make a 20% profit. He doesn’t complain about the price

    My house cleaner saw XX on the counter. Asked me to order her some. No other nutrition company owns their own organic farms or hundreds of parents.

    Get it??

  98. May 25, 2018 12:33 pm

    I was working on my ad business-. Just signed up another one.

  99. May 25, 2018 12:55 pm

    All the wwdb audios & videos are included (third party like John Maxwell might be separate). Books cost less than the retail store price.

    So now what is there to complain about? A fast track bonus is $150-300 not including the PV check. So tools cost $100 a month including purchase of one book. That’s a net plus cash flow. At 2500 I netted $350-400 after bonus checks.

    Anybody at 4000 with proper width should be getting a $15,000 minimum actual take home bonus if you annualize it. (What’s $1900 a month minus $400 for tools & functions?)

  100. Joecool permalink
    May 25, 2018 3:45 pm

    Amway XS drinks. 12 – 8.4 oz. cans = $28.32 not including shipping.

    http://www.amway.com/Shop/Product/Product.aspx/XS-Energy-Drink-Variety-Case?itemno=748178

    Red Bull 12 – 8.4 oz cans. = $18.73 not including shipping.

    https://www.walmart.com/ip/Red-Bull-Energy-Drink-Original-8-4-Fl-Oz-12-Count/10316267

    Save nearly $10 on that one product alone.

  101. Joecool permalink
    May 25, 2018 3:47 pm

    Show your math on how a 4000 would take home $1500 a month.

  102. May 25, 2018 3:55 pm

    Shit product doesn’t even taste good. Has not half of the vitamins and has mostly sugar & caffeine. ..
    Try comparing the QUALITY. hellooooooo

  103. May 25, 2018 5:17 pm

    You asked for it. Here it is!
    (“With = profitability”)
    “What’s not 19”??

    https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=10155616809806818&id=616306817

  104. May 25, 2018 5:26 pm

    On about $8 a day in personal use ,+ ,3 customers that = 330 PV
    Get 12 wide. That = 4300 PV.
    Net bonus check = $2300.
    (You didn’t learn that part about “300 PV circle” & personal width??)

    “What’s not 19?”

  105. May 25, 2018 5:33 pm

    Okay. 6 bonus checks (cuz I understand thats all you were capable of) and they each sponsor one (X 330 PV) will still get you $1950 a month.

    (So how much was your bonus check St 4000 “eagle”??🤔).

    You’re personally consuming $8 a day to gross $1950 in bonus money. (Was that math too difficult for you?)

  106. May 25, 2018 5:44 pm

    My customers do not ask me for XS to “save money”.

    I can show you a big price difference between a Toyota and a Hyundai or between a Toyota and a mercedes 🤔

  107. May 28, 2018 10:32 am

    Six bonus checks. 650 each. That’s 3900 + your 300. That’s how. You should be making 14% on $12,000 (+ your 300; PV personal use & retail. You get 30% retail profit off $900 + 23% bonus profit.

    $1680 + $570 = how much?

  108. Joecool permalink
    May 29, 2018 10:18 am

    Your link didn’t work.

    You say you don’t like Red Buill? There are many other energy drinks that taste better. Overall, red bull outsells Amway XS by a ton.

    Amway is the Hyundai and Red Bull is the mercedes.

  109. May 29, 2018 10:27 am

    Uhm no. Red bullcrap is the Toyota (* outsells Mercedes by a TON. Does that make it better? 🤔).

    Most fitness professionals have posted online they prefer more vitamins & less sugar & 8 calories.
    (XS has ZERO sugar and only 8 calories & 5 X the vitamins of red bullcrap. Also the taste is way better (available in 8 different tasty flavors. My #1 customer keeps asking me for the wildberry one. He doesn’t ask me for it to “save money” or complain about the price).

    And we have caffeine free versions with vitamin C also (red bullcrap doesn’t offer that)

  110. Joecool permalink
    May 29, 2018 11:34 am

    Your like of XS and dislike of red bull is subjective. Red bull revenue worldwide almost matches all of Amway’s.

  111. May 29, 2018 11:35 am

    Well my customers ask me for it. That’s all that matters. Red bullcrap ain’t buying me a house at lake Tahoe.

  112. May 29, 2018 11:38 am

    https://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2017/08/28/546800290/interpol-calls-for-arrest-of-fugitive-red-bull-heir-thai-police-say
    Interpol Calls For Arrest Of Fugitive Red Bull Heir, Thai Police Say …

  113. May 29, 2018 11:48 am

    0 sugars. 10 calories. 4900% B12

    Vs 37 grams of sugar. 168 calories.
    Less than 5% of the amount of B12 found on Xs.

    And a WHOLE LOT of advertising everywhere
    (When is the last time you saw an XS ad?)

  114. Joecool permalink
    May 29, 2018 2:52 pm

    Justifying your product? I tried XS and it’s okay. Red Bull is cheaper and just as good in my opinion.

    Your link about some red bull heir being in trouble is a straw man. It has no relevance.

  115. May 30, 2018 2:08 pm

    You SAID you can afford $20,000 a month for rent. (FIRST of all of be willing to bet you don’t even make that much. Second you need around $60,000 gross in order to qualify for a $20,000 rent payment (or at bare minimum $50,000).

  116. Joecool permalink
    May 31, 2018 10:05 am

    I could afford to pay $20,000 in rent if I needed to. I don’t need $60,000 in monthly income if I have sufficient cash reserves. (I guess you didn’t know that)

    How do you know what Matt’s rent is? Even if he can afford that, why would be pay that much rent instead of just buying the place?

  117. May 31, 2018 12:58 pm

    Dude you don’t listen or pay attention very well (& I guarantee you that’s why you FAILED in your Amway business)…

    I SAID Matt just bought a 2.5 acre property on the ocean at North shore & is rennovating (* that’s why they need to rent the $20,000 a month house. Hellooooooo??)

    I ALSO said (several times) his older brother (*ALSO a platinum who has gone emerald & who coached their dad to founders Ruby) is one of my best closest friends (I guess you missed the part about “friendship first. Platimum second”)

    I know things you don’t know (& you apparently don’t know very much)

  118. Joecool permalink
    May 31, 2018 2:06 pm

    Thanks for clearing that up. I have a lot of close friends but I don’t tell them how much money I have. I don’t tell them what my monthly income is. I don’t tell them what my expenses are.

    Why do Amway people do this?

  119. June 3, 2018 10:08 am

    Why do people sometimes ask me how much money I make when I meet up with them?
    (& Didn’t YOU ask me what I’d accomplished? 🤔)

    The subject OF THIS discussion is “does the Amway business model work?”. Well it works quite well , as you’ve pointed out G Duncan made more money every month than I made in a year my first year in the advertising business.

    I don’t know…it just excites me to know that someone like Matt Tsuruda or Howie Danzik lives the way I would like to as a man (being single in SIlicon Valley it’s gonna take a LOT of money to provide a decent life for any girlfriend or wife. A simple 3 br costs 1.5 million here. Not a mansion. Not a Beach house. A simple 3 br.
    (Of course since I don’t have a job tied to Silicon Valley I won’t need to buy an over priced house. Like with Matt or Howie my business will allow me to buy a house anywhere. A $200,000 house in Shasta lake would be nicer & I’ll pay cash for it.)

    As for the “fleet of Ferraris” nobody needs one or claims such a thing. But B& J Duncan have the “penthouse in the city where the action is” and the lambo and the Ferrari and the yacht and the jet and the Bentley (wow. He must a sold a lot of CDs ha? ). And to think Brad could have remained a construction worker and Julie a restaurant manager. Too bad Greg “scammed” Brad into that Amway business (I wonder how rich Dave Severn or Ron Puryear got off all those tapes Brad & Greg bought while going diamond 🤔).

    SMH 🙄

    (In case you didn’t get my (& Brad’s & Ken’s point) being around successful people MOTIVATES people. It’s called “World Wide DREAM Builders”)

    Only reason Brad Duncan became a millionaire (& he makes millions annually now) is because he had a dream & he never QUIT!

    (Mic drop)

  120. Joecool permalink
    June 4, 2018 10:02 am

    The fact is you don’t actually know what these folks make. They might make a lot but it may not be close to what you think it is. Even a million dollar a year income is not enough to sustain owning a jet.

    And Amway is like the lottery. You have some winners but millions who lose and contribute to the winners.

  121. June 4, 2018 1:48 pm

    So you were one of the Losers them? 🤔

  122. June 4, 2018 2:12 pm

    Looks like you and I both right?

  123. June 4, 2018 2:22 pm

    Speak for yourself pal. Winners never quit and quitters ALWAYS lose.

  124. June 4, 2018 4:36 pm

    So how did I lose now when I needed stuff to brush my teeth & rinse my mouth (that cost me less than the inferior Scope or crest product), wash my face & skin care (people have told me they can’t believe I’m 50+).
    Double x (I don’t dare go without them ), protein snacks & powder for when I’m working out. Allergy supplement for my friend who needs it

    Netted me $114 in savings at wholesale. How did I lose ? 🤔

  125. June 5, 2018 9:35 am

    Glister from Amway.com. $4.50 per tube not including shipping. (6.75 ounce)
    http://www.amway.com/supplements/Shop/Product/Category.aspx/Oral-Care

    Crest cavity protection. $5.00 for 3 tubes!!!!!!!!! (6.4 ounce – total 19.2.ounces) Shipping not included but free shipping for orders of $35 or more from WalMart.com

    https://www.walmart.com/ip/Crest-Cavity-Protection-Toothpaste-Choose-Size/11027522?wmlspartner=wlpa&selectedSellerId=0&wl13=5274&adid=22222222227000045461&wl0=&wl1=g&wl2=c&wl3=66809297672&wl4=pla-78228953616&wl5=9032808&wl6=&wl7=&wl8=&wl9=pla&wl10=8175035&wl11=local&wl12=11027522&wl13=5274&veh=sem

    How do you get savings when I get 3 times more product for 50 cents more? Oh wait, you get “paid” 30 cents for buying glister and nothing for buying crest right?

  126. June 5, 2018 9:54 am

    Good for you! You learned how to shop at Walmart!(so do they send checks for your retirement? 🤔)

    Dude Crest is 3 x more per use (so I guess you never even learned how to use your own product? It’s only .03¢ per use at retail. Are you REALLY that broke/ penny pinching that .03¢ is gonna bankrupt you??)

    If I pay LESS (at retail) for a slightly larger container and they give me 3 containers for 50¢ less but I gotta use 3 x more product of their brand (of an inferior product) then what’s the end result? (come on. Do the math)
    My guess is you were NOT an accountant 😂😂😂

  127. June 5, 2018 12:50 pm

    What are you just making up stuff now? If I have 3 tubes of crest to one tube of glister, the crest is going to last way longer than glister. You’re trying to pull the bogus “use less” Amway product baloney that IBOs always try. Sorry, doesn’t work when crest gives you nearly 3 times more product.

    Of course you are welcome to post credible link with actual product comparisons. But of course you can’t/wont.

  128. June 5, 2018 12:56 pm

    You did not do well at math problems did you?

    If you actually USED your own product (step #2 in the ten core steps) you’d know that cost per use is less. It takes less than 1/3 the amount of crest to use glister. So if crest costs less but I gotta use 3-4 x more then which one actually costs less?

    If my BIG bottle of scope costs the same as my tiny bottle of glister but my glister lasts 3X longer than that big bottle of scope then which one actually costs less?

  129. June 5, 2018 1:15 pm

    So. You use a peace sized amount of glister vs 3-4X as much Crest. One little 5oz bottle of glister lasts me 3 months. Scope barely lasts a month

    Dude it’s no WONDER you FAILED
    (So how come Mandy Yamamoto or Pete Hirshelman didn’t use the same lame excuses you did? They went Diamond in the last 2 years. Pete’s now moving his family into a 6000 square foot house here in the bay area).

    So I can A) make excuses like you did or
    B) get it done.

    See you later.

  130. June 5, 2018 1:42 pm

    Okay. Math problem for you:
    John uses Crest which lasts about 15 days, brushing 3X per day
    Joe used glister which lasts about 50 days brushing 3 x per day.

    John can buy 3 tubes of Crest for $5
    Joe can buy one tube of glister for $4.50.

    Which one costs less?

  131. June 5, 2018 3:09 pm

    So who has shown evidence that glister lasts 3 times longer than crest? You just made that up.

  132. June 5, 2018 3:17 pm

    Uhm. You never used your own product I can tell. You’re clueless. Completely clueless.

  133. June 5, 2018 4:03 pm

    You use a pea sized amount of glister vs a whole inch long swirl on crest.

    Personal use (so I’m guessing you missed Greg’s talk about personal use?)

    Do you know what a bioflavonoid is?

    Do you know why they put nutrilite in those opaque white bottles?

    Do you know why we take double x twice a day (instead of “once daily”?)

    Do you know the difference between our nutrilite acerola cherry vitamins c and the “ascorbic acid” found in the cheaper drug store variety supplements?

    Do you know what a “bowl ringer” is?

    What percentage of the amway owned brands will save you money at retail?

    Do you know how many patients nutrilite owns?
    Do you know what “nutriloc” is?

    How many customers does it take to make a 300 PV circle?

    Do you know what “L.O.C”. Stands for?

  134. June 5, 2018 4:09 pm

    Did you say “Diamonds cannot afford private school”?? SERIOUSLY?? (You did not say that did you? 😂😂🤣🤣)

    That is not why they home school kids.

    How about always traveling the world so they bring the kids with them

    Or how about Dan & Sandy pay a private teacher to school their boys. Amazing what can be learned in less time with a one on one or one on three students teacher ratio (-& you can travel on your schedule- NOT the school schedule. You missed that $7 tape or CD where Greg told about WHY he home schooled the kids. It’s his schedule!! School got mad at all the trips/ absences. So he home schooled them and gave them immersion Spanish in Costa Rica. )..
    Dumb@##.

  135. June 6, 2018 12:27 pm

    “”You use a pea sized amount of glister vs a whole inch long swirl on crest.””

    A pea sized amount of Crest does the same job.

    “”Do you know why we take double x twice a day (instead of “once daily”?)””

    So you can buy overpriced vitamins more often?

  136. June 6, 2018 12:30 pm

    “”Did you say “Diamonds cannot afford private school”?? SERIOUSLY?? (You did not say that did you? 😂😂🤣🤣)

    That is not why they home school kids.””

    Being that Greg Duncan went bankrupt and David Shores lost a home to foreclosure, maybe some diamond can’t afford private school.

    Even if Greg Duncan didn’t go bankrupt, he was making good money as a triple diamond but it’s not enough to travel the world with your family while paying a tutor to teach your kids as you travel. These Amway diamonds are nowhere near as wealthy as corporate giants like Bill Gates or the WalMart heirs.

  137. June 7, 2018 8:13 am

    And so neither are you (as wealthy as Bill Gates)
    So what’s your point?.🤔

  138. June 7, 2018 8:20 am

    Ok. So I ordered $380 worth of stuff on Monday. Got an email yesterday my shipment had arrived. Opened my door. Three boxes.
    I got $114 in savings / profit (some of that stuff was for customer) and I love the xs drink, the zesty protein snacks. Take some coQ 10 for my heart & gums
    New order of double X
    Loved the protein powder this morning as my shake.
    Last night I opened a new pack of toothbrushes (that toothbrush worked better reaching back teeth than the one I had from Walgreens. ) New tooth paste (never even liked created once I started using Glister – which doesn’t scratch the enamel BTW). New mouth wash (my other little bottle finally ran out after 3 months.

    Gotta wash tone & moisturize my face (people can’t believe I’m 50+).

    Love the stuff and I get a bonus checks for using it
    (Show me again where I lost? 🤔)

  139. June 12, 2018 12:11 pm

    I wonder if Malachy has quit Amway?

  140. June 12, 2018 3:50 pm

    I wonder if Brad Duncan (who just got back from an exclusive founders trip with Doug Devoss on their luxury yacht in the Mediterranean and was then flown in a first class suite on Singapore airlines to Bangkok for the NAGC (NORTH American Growth council) trip) would want to trade places with “Joe Cool”..

    Can you Joe Cool please show me how I can get a penthouse & a yacht and a Rolls Royce and be free?

    Can you teach me that?

  141. June 13, 2018 8:46 am

    “”Can you Joe Cool please show me how I can get a penthouse & a yacht and a Rolls Royce and be free?””

    Start a software company that rivals microsoft.

    Who has achieved those things under Brad Duncan would be a better question. And even if you can name perhaps 1 or 2. how many others tried and did not achieve it? I’d say Brad has a poor track record.

  142. June 13, 2018 9:10 am

    Yeah pretty poor track record. They’ve got half a dozen people downline from them whom they’ve helped make more money then you
    Attalah
    Wolgamott
    Kosage
    Harimoto
    Eaton (you should see their luxury condo in Seattle).
    Angiule.

    And that does not include rubies & saohires and all their emeralds.

    (BTW nobody is responsible for making anybody else successful. All we can do is open the door and teach the teachable. You were obviously not teachable that is why you FAILED).

  143. June 13, 2018 10:54 am

    I wouldn’t want to be like Brad Duncan who lies and cheats his downline for his fortunes.

  144. June 13, 2018 2:35 pm

    Sure. Right. If it didn’t BOTHER you that you quit (& FAILED) you wouldn’t be here COMPLAINING all the time & trying to justify it to yourself. (so. Did you refund them all?)

  145. June 13, 2018 3:43 pm

    I post here and in other places to warn people not to believe the misinformation and lies that the WWDB people tell.

  146. June 13, 2018 8:22 pm

    What the flip do YOU care??
    If you’re happy with your quit then just enjoy your life!

    You’re like some obsessed ex stalking your ex and telling everyone how bad she was. B

  147. June 14, 2018 7:04 am

    Name one “lie” or “misinformation”🤔

  148. June 14, 2018 11:59 am

    “””Name one “lie” or “misinformation”””

    Our group was told a number of lies.

    1. NOBODY makes a profit from the tools and functions
    2. WWDB is a non profit organization
    3. Diamonds pay cash for everything, including houses
    4. The divorce rate in WWDB is 2% and the rest of the world is 50% (Wolgamott and Kosage alone blows up the percentage)
    5. You are guaranteed to be at 7500 PV if you are core for 12 months

    I can name more but I doubt you can refute any of these to begin with.

  149. June 14, 2018 4:05 pm

    Yeah it’s “not as good as they say” ha🤔

    Well #1 I was NOT told that “nobody makes money off tools”. Ken told me CDs are $2.50 for premiere members & $7 for non members.
    Books? The book in reading cost half as much through wwdb as it did from Barnes & nobles

    #2. It’s not a “non profit” (your sponsor probably made that up or mistranslated it)
    It’s a “not for profit LLC”. Still gotta pay the secretaries & staff who actually work at the office in Spokane (& I don’t know how much they paid for that building as the HQ).

    As far as divorcio? I know of 4 diamonds who divorced. (I heard that “2%” claim too). But 4 diamonds is NOT the 50% like in the job world. And nobody I know in wwdb got married a third time. As for W, I heard he cheated on her. Good looking rich guy (who’s way too good looking for her I guess – I’m sure he thought so). I remember Bradley D talking about their crappy marriage & sitting on their counter trying to be the peace maker/ counselor.

    I ain’t a counselor (& don’t wanna be one).

    How do YOU (or wwdb) know what the real stars in marriage are? Many people quit before they divorce & many people stick it out & succeed at marriage- and business, like Matt – Sandee. They were ready to divorce but didn’t.

    As for “guaranteed” me anything except #1 the products & #2 they’d help me build it.
    It SAYS right on every single audio that “nobody can guarantee you it will work for you”.
    (Whoever told you that was the BS er not wwdb. )

  150. June 15, 2018 10:37 am

    When WWDB could not hide tool and function profits because of the internet, they came clean and admitted that profits are made, although they downplay the magnitude of the profits. Tools and functions have higher profit margins and less people receiving payment than Amway bonuses so of course the income can be significant. Don’t forget that to get that $2.50 rate on a CD, you have to pay the WWDB premiere club fee which is about $50 monthly.

    The non profit claim is true,. Of course since you defend Amway you will deny it.

    4 diamonds divorcing is only a small portion of WWDB. WWDB is not limited to diamonds and I highly doubt that divorces are tracked by WWDB. Not to mention some people might get divorced BECAUSE OF AMWAY. Ironic that Wolgamott got divorced when he was the one teaching that WWDB saved marriages.

    Truth is, Amway and WWDB people probably divorce as much as anyone else but it becomes an issue when you teach people that WWDB will save your marriage. Guess what? Church attenders also have the same divorce rate as the rest of the world. Why would anyone believe that Amway or WWDB people would be exceptionally different?

  151. June 15, 2018 10:44 am

    I agree. I am not in the marriage business or saving marriage business. Just show me how to make money & I’ll be fine.

    So. Do they divorce because of Amway? Or do they fail at Amway because of a bad marriage? 🤔

    I’m a Catholic so I would never get divorced (unless, like with Danzik, she cheated on me).

    All I wanna do is make about $300,000 a year and be free. Debt free. Job free.
    (I ain’t got no marriage so I ain’t got no “marriage troubles”).

    Can you personally teach me how to do that? Make $300,000 A YEAR WITHIN 3 YEWRS?

  152. June 15, 2018 11:54 am

    Well, to be honest, nobody asked for Susan’s side of the story so nobody knows. Maybe it was Howie who was fooling around. But I guess in Amway, you just take his side of the story as fact without really knowing. Just like when someone says they earn millions.

    Can I teach you to make $300,000? Yes. In Amway, your change of going diamond is about 1 in 20,000 or a fraction of 1%.

    Go to Vegas and place $300,000 on “red” on the roulette wheel. That will give you about a 47% chance of making $300,000 quickly and with a much greater chance of success than Amway.

  153. June 15, 2018 12:00 pm

    It’s “Suzan”. Not Susan. Howie was conflicted whether it was moral to even get a divorce. Your partner screwing around on you is clearly the only exception. So he thought and prayed and decided (since she cheated) it was ok to divorce her.
    Anyway he overcame that and built a bigger business and a better marriage (now they are in the North America Growth Council trip to bankock )

    Your odds mean nothing. My Chances of going Diamond are 100%. (And, btw, those “20,000” or 10,000is the whole IDEA. Get 6% of the monthly recurring purchases of thousands of household’s. Do the math. )

  154. June 15, 2018 12:05 pm

    Like I said, nobody knows because nobody asked Suzan for her side of the story.

    Maybe Howie was cheating and lied about the whole story.

  155. June 15, 2018 12:07 pm

    I think your wife left you (that’s why you keep bringing up this marriage questions)

  156. June 15, 2018 12:12 pm

    Sure, when you run out of an actual response in a debate, you attack the messenger instead of the message.

    “My Chances of going Diamond are 100%.”

    LOL, that’s why you can name about 6-7 new diamonds in the last 20 years while just as many have died or quit WWDB.

  157. June 15, 2018 1:08 pm

    “20 years”? They’re not even using the same methods it process as 20 years ago.
    20 years ago there was no texting, no emails, no digital download no Skype or webinar’s.

    Give us a BREAK

  158. June 15, 2018 1:34 pm

    So your wife DID leave you? (You didn’t answer that but instead went in the offensive. That’s the REAL reason you wait & why you’re upset. )

    BTW how much do you think Jim Puryear makes off those membership & function tickets? 🤔. Is that how they paid for that $10 million house on the river?

  159. June 15, 2018 3:01 pm

    Sorry dude, been married over 20 years. Quitting Amway made my marriage better.

    Well, if a function charges $125 for a ticket and 10,000 attend, that 1.25 million minus the cost of the venue and clean up/set up crew. The platinums work as free help so the diamonds make nice profits from the big functions.

  160. June 15, 2018 3:02 pm

    Don’t forget the profits off WWDB premiere club, Communikate, books and local functions plus open meetings.

  161. June 15, 2018 3:06 pm

    $20 for local functions. Who’s buying a yacht off that?

  162. June 15, 2018 3:32 pm

    $20 – 2000 in attendance = $40,000 gross profit for a weekend. Weekly sales of cds plus the monthly take from Communikate, premiere club, books, open meetings, plus 4 major functions.

    It adds up to good profits, possibly more than Amway income.

  163. June 15, 2018 3:39 pm

    FIRST of all (& this is an obvious CLUE) you don’t even know the difference between “revenue” & “earnings”. (I won’t be taking investment advice from you buddy).

    Second of all, MOST of the local functions do NOT have “2000 attendees” (& NOT everybody pays. Guests are free. – sane thing with major function. Every married couple is entitled to 2 guest tickets. So half don’t pay the $125. Also platinums don’t pay).
    .third…there is a COST involved with renting the facility & paying insurance
    Some local functions actually lose money BTW

    Did you say Howie “charges $265” for a seminar or something like that?
    (Maybe that’s how he bought 3 homes and an airplane. Had no idea 😉)

  164. June 15, 2018 4:17 pm

    You didn’t know? Some diamonds hold their own functions. There was a guy who (not WWDB) held his own cruise that he strongly encouraged his group to go and and charged them something like $5000 to attend. (Fred Harteiss)

  165. June 15, 2018 8:00 pm

    😮😂😂🤣🤣🤣. Hahaaa
    That’s so ridiculously! $5000???
    I will never make money off “training”.
    Why not produce the events at cost and the audio materials at cost?

    Originally rich & jay were Against all these “systems” (& in Vietnam they’re illegal. Only distributors can sponsor other distributors but they can’t have a system)

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