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Penn and Teller’s Verdict on MLMs: BS

July 12, 2010

Funny yet accurate look at MLMs from comedians Penn and Teller.

One of the MLMs featured in the video was Man Cave, which I previous wrote about in the past. From the facts pointed out in the video, it doesn’t look like a front-line “advisor” or sales rep can make a lot of money just by selling products. He would need to recruit other advisors underneath him to see any substantial profits. That’s too bad, since it brings the focus not on selling products but on recruitment.

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553 Comments leave one →
  1. May 1, 2018 4:17 pm

    You know I’ve learned alot from you.

  2. Joecool permalink
    May 1, 2018 4:23 pm

    Yes, you learned that MLM = BS

  3. May 1, 2018 5:19 pm

    BTW I’m being mentored by a man who private schooled and home school his kids & paid cash for cars.
    (I’m pretty sure that’s a “net profit”🤔)

  4. Joecool permalink
    May 1, 2018 5:22 pm

    How do you private school and home school your kids? Home school = because diamonds cannot afford private school.

  5. May 8, 2018 12:31 pm

    Matt did that at 23. So did Duncan.
    For years he just lived the free life & spoke at functions.

    Now he’s riding a new wave while mentoring his own sons & daughters how to build wealth.
    Matt Duncan just cleared 6 figures bought a brand new car in his early 20s…

    Trevor Baker grew up with a free mom & dad. Now in his early 30s he created an asset that pays him seven figures

    (Should bakers have stayed in insurance and dental hygienist & owed the IRS & never helped their son see what he could achieve?)

    Are YOU teaching your offspring how to “go to the movies every day”? (Or do they have jobs? 🤔)

  6. Joecool permalink
    May 8, 2018 12:40 pm

    The only evidence of early retirement because of Amway is your statement. That’s not exactly the strongest of evidence.

  7. May 8, 2018 12:43 pm

    Look I don’t owe you any “evidence”. I’ve known the dude 26 years and he hasn’t had a JOB since I met him & he’s bought cars in cash for his Mom and sisters.
    I’ve seen pictures of the house in Colorado his sister bought & renovated (to replace the one incinerated by the wild fire)

    Give me your email I’ll send you the pictures if you like. There’s your evidence.

  8. Joecool permalink
    May 8, 2018 12:49 pm

    Running a business is still working even if you don’t have a job. Wait, why doesn’t Matt “walk away” and collect residual income?

    I know the answer to that. Do you?

  9. May 8, 2018 12:55 pm

    Answer: he DID for many years. His daughters did not know what it’s like for mom & dad to have a job. She didn’t even see them working this business much. Now they are because they are building it BIGGER.

    (Why does Grant Cardone still work? Why does Mr Wonderful still stay so busy with all his business? Why does Mark Cuban still spend so much time in his businesses? Why does Robert Kiyosaki still spend time writing books & doing seminars? Why did DJT sleep only 5-6 hours a night as a billionaire?)

    What’s Matt supposed to to? Hang around the house playing video games or going to movies?

  10. Joecool permalink
    May 8, 2018 1:05 pm

    So what have YOU accomplished in Amway? Will you still be here posting updates in a few months? I suspect you’ll be gone like all the others who came before you. Not a single IBO who debated on these forums ever returned to say they were successful and how they did it,

    I wonder why?

  11. May 8, 2018 1:11 pm

    Residual income. On going earnings. As in 6% for life (* was just increased from 4%) so I’d say that’s pretty good pay raise.

    Dad’s business. Does over a million a year (as part of his brother’s business which also does hundreds of thousands annually). How much time does he spend in that business? Hardly any.
    His sister’s business. She’s a multi millionaire. How much time does he spend in that business? Hardly any

    Many Yamamoto (a financial planner) just went Diamond. How much time do you think Matt & Sandee need to spend in that business?

    Matt doesn’t spend any time on me (*I’m mentored by his brother Ken). Guess what. He makes 6% of all my purchases, my customer orders & my ibos orders.

    I know about residuals because I get them from my advertise business.

    Looking to build it bigger. Along with building the network that will earn me a million a year.

  12. May 8, 2018 1:13 pm

    WHY? Because they decided they have better things to do. 😉

    Email me your W-2/ 1099 and I’ll hit you back in a year with mine. makstores@yahoo.com.

    Still waiting for your proof of 4000 PV double eagle. Show me the money Jerry.

  13. May 8, 2018 1:30 pm

    What have YOU. accomplished in Amway that makes you such an expert?? 🤔🤔

  14. May 8, 2018 1:33 pm

    Are you kidding me?? Who wants to be a salesman? Nobody!

    You’re missing the whole point & do not understand the how and why of network marketing. SMH 🙄

  15. May 8, 2018 1:56 pm

    Matt & Sandee make more money in a month than I do in a year (- & probably you too).

    Should she go back to being in debt & working as a VP at a bank?

    Maybe Matt should have stuck with being a bartender or a manager of a parking company.
    😉

  16. Joecool permalink
    May 8, 2018 2:23 pm

    “”What have YOU. accomplished in Amway that makes you such an expert??””

    I was at 4000 PV with eagle parameters. I believe that means I achieved more than you have. And no, I don’t have any financial papers to back it up as that was 20 years ago. But then again, the forum is filled with claims you’ve made with nothing to back it up.

  17. Joecool permalink
    May 8, 2018 2:27 pm

    “”Matt & Sandee make more money in a month than I do in a year (- & probably you too).””

    You already admitted you haven’t seen their financials so how would you know?

    Look, nobody is disputing that a qualified founder’s diamond or whatever might make good money. but Amway doesn’t say who is currently qualified. They only advertise new diamonds.

    Also, as evidenced by Greg Duncan, making a large income doesn’t mean you know how to manage it well.

  18. May 8, 2018 2:31 pm

    Hahaaa 🤣. Ken was right. He said (about you) “sounds like he’s living in the 90s”. Spot on!.
    (I bet you still have boxes of cassette tapes or CDs laying around)..

    Well just like you I have no financial records of my income from Amway (they’re in the future 😉).

    Yeah keep living in the past & be proud of your accomplishments.

    4000 PV (failed to thrive) business from the 90s knows nothing about today’s business or current trends. I’d forward you some audios files but you probably don’t know how to play them.

    I’ll show you my financial records (from my advertising business & my Amway business) when you show me yours.

    As for me I’ll keep listening to my (successful) mentor. He’s (obviously) very wise & went WAY past “4000”. He’s made six figures. Coached his own dad & mom to make $165,000 a year.

    (So. Can you teach me to do that? 🤔)

  19. May 8, 2018 2:38 pm

    And? Is Greg Duncan mentoring me? No!

    (& What about Bill & Sandy Hawkins Samir Atallah, Leslie Walgomott or Tracey Eaton. I’ve yet to see you mention any problems thtyve had financially).

    All I do know is Ken and Melanie own a house in Manoa (“close to all the action”). Matt & Sandee just bought a property on 2.5 acres. And they don’t have jobs.

    So that’s good enough for me.

  20. Joecool permalink
    May 8, 2018 4:18 pm

    “””As for me I’ll keep listening to my (successful) mentor. He’s (obviously) very wise & went WAY past “4000”. He’s made six figures. Coached his own dad & mom to make $165,000 a year.”””

    I made more than that for making comments about Amway. See how that works?

    Greg might not be mentoring you, but he is uplilne of Matt, who would possibly seek counsel from Greg.

    Leslie Wolgamott? What happened to Brad? I remember Brad teaching about how Amway and WWDB saves marriages.

  21. Joecool permalink
    May 8, 2018 4:20 pm

    I don’t have a job and I own 2 homes in Kailua Oahu. Go look up the value of Kailua homes. 🙂

  22. May 8, 2018 5:19 pm

    Again your hypocrisy shows.
    To new candidates I would say “beware people who (make their living by) posting negative remarks about Amway online (but they themselves never did even go platimum).

    So you’re just a useless washed up scammer who makes money off ads on a website trashing somebody else’s business

    👏

  23. May 8, 2018 5:29 pm

    😂🤣🤣. More laughs for the clueless one who doesn’t know $##$ about Amway, let alone wwdb.

    (Apparently you weren’t even paying attention (& probably in your whole what 9 months in the business went to all of one major function?)

    Anybody who’s been around wwdb would know Duncan is upline from Walgomott (who if you listen to the tapes would know they had a bad marriage. Mr GQ was too much for miss Leslie I guess. (Who got the house and the business? Leslie. Brad got to stay in the guest house studio with a hot plate & start over. Kicked out if wwdb). Duncan downline from woodhead and Severn and Puryears. (Jim just inherited a huge business in addition to his Ruby business. Did you go Ruby? No? Ok)

    Everyone in wwdb knows Tsuruda is not downline from Duncan. He was sponsored by someone who introduced him upline to Wood’s who passed up his sponsor and his sponsors sponsors sponsors sponsors to be mentored by Toshi Taba who brought wwdb to Hawaii.

    Everyone in wwdb knew Toshi Taba.

    And I was beginning to think you were just an honest frustrated quitter.

    SMH 🙄

    Scammer calling an honest business man a scammer

    Unbelievable

  24. May 8, 2018 6:41 pm

    You “own them” or you mortgage them ? 🤔

  25. May 9, 2018 10:33 am

    Good for you 😉.
    (So why you in here complaining about Amway? 🤔)

  26. Joecool permalink
    May 21, 2018 9:16 am

    I own one home outright and have a few years left to pay off the other home. My rental income covers the mortgage anyway so my cash flow is just fine.

  27. May 21, 2018 9:33 am

    You sure spend alot of time justifying yourself.

  28. Joecool permalink
    May 21, 2018 12:27 pm

    You spend more time trying to justify Amway diamonds.

    BTW, I was gone for the last ten days staying in a great hotel room in Las Vegas.

    First class vacation.

  29. May 21, 2018 1:54 pm

    I don’t need to try to justify them. I’m sure the lobster & steak on those FREE TRIPS taste just as good wether I’m here or not!

    (& Las Vegas?? That’s a free platimum business trip to anybody who made 7500 for the year. Oh well. Oops you never made it. You quit! 🤣🤣🤣🤣)

  30. Joecool permalink
    May 21, 2018 3:29 pm

    I don’t need free trips. I can afford to pay for my own vacations.

  31. May 21, 2018 3:31 pm

    So can any platinum or diamond 😉

    (& You could not pay for the kind of travel Amway provides to Peter island, south Africa or Greece. )

  32. Joecool permalink
    May 21, 2018 5:06 pm

    Who actually goes to Peter Island? You’d be surprised to see how few people actually qualify for that trip. And yeah, people can pay to go there unless Amway puts a restriction on guests. You have to assume that tourism is what drives the business on that island.

  33. May 22, 2018 1:09 am

    Uhm. Anyone who qualifies as diamond gets the trip. And anyone who is a diamond and has a qualified downline also.
    (Yes it’s a resort (brilliant deduction Sherlock) where hamburgers cost $25. Most people get there by boat. (either a chartee boat or their own sail boat or yacht)
    Amway flew Brad Duncan and their qualified downlownline Bob & Shelly Summer (a retired mci executive) across the country on their own private customized 737 (you don’t travel in one of those do you?) And then they get flown by private helicopter to Peter island (like I said most guests have to get there by boat from St Thomas).

    Greg Duncan (yes the now famously bankrupt G D) gets flown to Europe on a private jet with sleeper lounge where they provide pajamas and serve you steak & eggs for breakfast when you arrive across the ocean.

    At $50,000 per trip I seriously doubt you can (or ever have traveled that way buddy. )

    Matt’s been to Peter island several times BTW.

  34. May 22, 2018 1:31 am

    Who goes to Peter island? Only those who QUALIFY 😉(AND it ain’t 4000 pins in case you were wondering. Brad’s been going there since 30 years ago. The staff know him & Julie by name.)
    Yeah anybody with a boat & money for like $10,000 a night & $25 cheeseburger can pay their own way to stay there. Amway sends SUCCESSFUL ibos (not the ones who quit or fail) all expenses paid including first class or private jet to St Thomas and helicopter to the island. That includes all meals and excursion activities.

    (And you’d be surprised how few people in America make over $40,000 a month from any other job or business).

    You didn’t make $400,000-600,000 a year at your j j job did you? (No. You could not afford the (7?) CDs every week. That’s why you quit!!)

  35. May 22, 2018 8:38 am

    Well definitely not you or people who think like you do. I’ve received post cards from Peter island & I plan to go.

    Too bad you quit.

    Can’t wait to be flown in private jumbo jet & helicopter & enjoy all the free food & excursions.

  36. Joecool permalink
    May 22, 2018 9:17 am

    I inquired about how many people went to diamond club in Hawaii a few years ago. There were 160 people in attendance. That includes spouses and children. That’s not a lot of diamonds but of course maybe thousands of diamonds on the mainland US turned down a free diamond club trip to Hawaii. Not!

  37. May 22, 2018 9:20 am

    Oh really?? You inquired with whom??

    And most diamonds don’t bring their kinds but some do. So what if it’s 40-50 people or even 30 who get invited (& yes I know bill & Peggy Britt turned it down on occasion so not every diamond goes every time. )

  38. May 22, 2018 10:33 am

    Not everybody goes diamond. That’s why it’s called “diamond club”. It’s exclusive! 😉

    And you don’t need to be a diamond to make more money than most job people. A platinum with just 12 legs can make $16,000 a month.
    Matt’s dad & mom make $165,000 as rubies.

    (So what was your miserable point … about diamond club? 🤔)

  39. Joecool permalink
    May 22, 2018 10:38 am

    I inquired with the Hotel. Some of this information is public knowledge.

    So if there are so many diamonds, are most of them turning down free trips to Hawaii?

    Or maybe there just aren’t as many diamonds as you thought?

  40. May 22, 2018 10:41 am

    And. This (the number of attendees at diamond club) is so important because…..?

  41. May 22, 2018 11:58 am

    The number of diamonds doesn’t matter (to me or anybody else)
    When Ron Puryears started there were NO diamonds on the west coast. When Toshi Taba started there were no platinums in Hawaii.

    So? What’s your point?..

    For every Diamond there are dozens of platinums (making over $50,000 a year)

    And hundreds of people getting Debt free and mom’s home from work (& dozens of future platimum & diamond businesses).

    So quit complaining about what somebody else did to get rich. Geez.

  42. Joecool permalink
    May 23, 2018 9:40 am

    The number of diamonds is significant because Amway’s revenues can only support so many. Amway’s revenue in 2013 was 11.8 billion and 8.6 billion in 2017. That’s a huge decline.

    For every diamond, there aren’t necessarily “dozens” of downline platinums. And they might gross $50k but after business expenses, they make much less.

    So what have YOU accomplished in Amway under your “awesome” mentor so far?

  43. May 23, 2018 11:00 am

    You don’t even get it do you. Amway doesn’t need revenue in order to “support diamonds”
    Plenty of revenue from emeralds and saohires rubies (& even 4000s).

    Diamonds by definition generate at least $3,000,000-$4,000,000 each per year

    (And, yes, it takes at least 6 platimum legs to be a diamond. Tell me how many bonus checks minimum do you need to go diamond?)

  44. Joecool permalink
    May 23, 2018 11:19 am

    If Amway revenues are down, then they have less sales. Less sales means less bonuses and less bonuses means less diamonds when you’re talking about billions of dollars.

    Why are there so few diamonds in WWDB? There were more diamonds around when I was an IBO than now.

  45. May 23, 2018 11:37 am

    Actually they’ve increased the bonuses sir. From.4% to 6% (which means emeralds & diamonds just got a 50% raise! 😎)

  46. Joecool permalink
    May 23, 2018 11:55 am

    And the bonuses just come from YOUR product purchases. Because the Amway products carry the cost of those bonuses, Amway has to overcharge for their products and the only beneficiaries are the diamonds who get the lion’s share of the bonuses, plus they sell you tools and functions so they can motivate you to keep giving them money.

    What have YOU accomplished in Amway under your incredible mentors?

  47. May 23, 2018 11:58 am

    Man you are just amusing. You are like a cat with a laser pointer.

    I gotta go. Spend my time more predictively

    Bye

  48. May 23, 2018 12:04 pm

    “6%” is the Lions share ha? 🤔

    What about the other 25%? That’s how much a platinum makes. (& 4000s get 21%. That’s 3 1/2 times more than a diamond makes)

    Dude you amaze me. Let me lay some Truth on you: Amway doesn’t need diamonds to be successful & you don’t need to go diamond to make any money. Matt’s dad & mom Kenji & Mildred make over $150,000. (they get 31% as rubies. Ken gets 6% of their $60,000 a month business. You do the math. )
    I’m sure Matt gets some other smaller bonus or pass up volume off of that leg.

    Sheesh. You don’t even know what the different profits are.

  49. Joecool permalink
    May 23, 2018 12:09 pm

    You keep quoting the income that you “think” some people are making. But the reality is you don’t know. Knowing how the Amway bonuses are not important to me and for most people. All I know that is about 1 in 400 reach platinum (amway.com) and many platinums fail to re-qualify.

    My upline diamond was Harimoto and I knew all of his original platinums. None of them are around and they aren’t even in the Amway business anymore. Why do you think that is?

  50. May 23, 2018 12:10 pm

    I didn’t say Joe Cool was not successful. I congratulated him & wished him the best.

    Hey Tony you know what the difference between you and Brad is?

  51. May 23, 2018 12:18 pm

    Yeah sure is a nice 3 story house Scotty built for his family there in Hawaii. (Should he have stayed an engineer? My favorite part of his tape was when his boss “denied permission” for time off. So he retired 😂😂😂)..
    My sponsor went direct and then quit. So now all my volume goes up to Ken & Matt makes a nice 6% on my $200 a month in personal purchases)

    (And, as in my case, when the front line quits it usually leaves the others around so platinum makes even more money! 😉).

    I can’t wait to go to my sponsor and tell him the news that I’m a Ruby. (That’s over $2000 a month he’ll miss out on)

    (So what was YOUR excuse??)

  52. Joecool permalink
    May 23, 2018 12:32 pm

    So why did Harimoto (an ocean lover) move to Washington State? Taxes too high here? Not enough people to recruit in Hawaii?

    I didn’t need an excuse. My decision to quit Amway was a business decision. Amway didn’t pay out what was expected at the 4000 level so why keep working hard to break even?

    I did just fine in the working world and I am now a young retiree with a nice retirement income and valuable assets in excess of a million dollars.

  53. May 23, 2018 12:37 pm

    Toshi Taba did the same thing. Hawaii is an extremely libtard run high tax state.
    (& He doesn’t need to “recruit” anybody. That’s not how it works)

    Why did Mike & Michi Woods move to (a mansion in) Texas?

  54. May 23, 2018 12:46 pm

    Funny this whole page is based on tearing down what someone else DiD DO (but which you couldn’t.)

    Winners don’t need excuses & quitters only need one.

    Mandy Yamamoto (Hawaii’s newest diamond had her car and cell phone taken away by her parents when she decided to build it as a young lady. She did it anyway.

    I’ve been through hell and back (in my personal situations). I’m gonna build it anyway.

    I’ll be counted among the winners. Not the losers & the quitters.

    You’ve proven the best thing a whiner and quitter can do for his upline (& the whole team) is QUIT!

    I wouldn’t want none (any) of you on my team. No way. Absolute poison.

  55. May 23, 2018 12:59 pm

    Please don’t misunderstand me I’m not saying Joe Cool is a loser. He made a decision that was right for him (& it worked out ok) & I really respect that. (It’s the schmarmy guys like Tony that drive me crazy).

    But if y’all happy with the decision to QUIT then quit knocking those who DIDN’T quit, DIDN’T make excuses, didn’t whine & complain & decided to STAY with the dream and DID IT!

    (BTW I didn’t get in to go 4000. I saw $2000-4000 at platinum and decided that was the deal for me ok)

  56. Joecool permalink
    May 23, 2018 1:04 pm

    You can “gross” $2000 a month at platinum, maybe more. But as your business grows, and you start to reach 2500 and higher, you will find that you have more expectations and more business expenses. Of course your upline won’t reveal this to you upfront.

    And based on Amway information, those who reach platinum are like 1 in 400. What makes you think you’re the 1?

  57. May 23, 2018 1:18 pm

    You can’t spend more than $4000 a year on core. I ran the figures based in your claim and it barely broke $5000.

    So let’s see. $30,000 a year minus $5000 = $25,000 (& $30,000 is a weak platimum. You got 12 bonus checks (like we showed in the plan) you’d gross more like $50,000.

    More expenses might mean more airline tickets. Maybe a few more books (we don’t use CDs anymore. Everything is digital now )
    My core costs are less than $200 a month.

  58. Joecool permalink
    May 23, 2018 1:25 pm

    If I take 4 trips for major functions from Hawaii to the mainland, the airfare, hotels, rental cars and function tickets easily exceed $5000. And that’s only for those 4 functions.

  59. May 23, 2018 1:32 pm

    If you build it right (& teach your people) it’s 50-100 ibos (I never can do less than 75 pv personal use & I’m single). So if it’s 100 PV – 300 PV prr ibo you do the math!.

    Like I said a platinum makes $40,000-60,000 or more and he’s got 4000s making $2000 a month & 2500s making $400 a month & 1000s making $200-300 and so on. Everybody wins. Don’t wanna buy the CDs don’t do it! I’ve been a wholesale user for many years (& I’ll NEVER go another day with double x. )

    I enjoy the products (& so do my customers who ask me for them)

    Nuff said

  60. May 23, 2018 1:59 pm

    Dream night is local 😉

    Airfare from the mainland is $300-700 depending when you book it. So $2000 a year is reasonable for air. Don’t need to rent a car if you stay by the coliseum or rideshare (& tentative cars can be gotten for $36 a day)
    So $400 for rent a car & usually $60-80 for hotel which you can split with someone.
    So let’s say $200 hotel X 3 that’s $600 for the year. $300 for rental car now you’re at 3000 annual travel for functions plus your $3000 for CDs (7 a week? Really?? Lot a good it did ya. Did you open and actually listen to yjr info?)
    So function tickets were barely $100 back in the 1900s. So you’re at Max $6000 for the year. That’s $500 a month.

  61. Joecool permalink
    May 23, 2018 2:59 pm

    Yes, but WWDB leaders, at least in the past, encouraged IBO’s to purchase additional function tickets. So your $75 dream night could be $450. Your family reunion could be $750, if you did as your upline advised. And there are other things that upline advised that caused more expenses.

    Not surprising when the WWDB upline was profiting from these additional expenses.

  62. Joecool permalink
    May 23, 2018 3:05 pm

    Most Amway IBO’s never sponsor a single person. And even if you sponsor some people, chances are they will do nothing and quit. How can a sustainable business be built with those factors?

  63. May 23, 2018 3:15 pm

    Joe that’s ridiculous. I’m gonna call you on that. If you bought 5 function tickets (& didn’t sell them) that’s your stupid fault. That’s totally flipping ridiculous. A dream night costs $75 (& it’s local) and family reunion is $125…

    Why don’t we talk about those “make money like a shark” seminars where they bring out Mr wonderful and teach you just enough about how you can make thousands a month trading stocks & options working just ten minutes a day. (only $997 for 3 day workshop if you sign up now)

    Or Grant Cardone “10X seminar” for $3995.

    NOBODY is “getting rich” off of wwdb $20 functions dude. Gimme a break 🙄

    (So how many Ferraris do you think Duncan bought with “speaking fees”? Do you really think that’s how Matt paid his $20,000 rent last month for that house on the water on North shore??)..

    If YOU lost money buying extra function tickets (& bought 7-8 CDs a week) then you’re stupid.

  64. May 23, 2018 3:51 pm

    Well that’s doing it WRONG!! How successful would any business be if they didn’t adequately staff it or train their people?

    (& You know what? Most people don’t make any money in real estate & many people QUIT. So is real estate a bad deal? What about the car business? Most people make less than $45,000 a year there and many QUIT. Should the dealership close their doors?)

    (Oh yeah. The OWNER is the one making the “lion share” of the money).

    Dude you’ve obviously never owned any successful business.

    (Oh and BTW Netflix is currently LOSING MONEY. How’s that working out for the shareholders? Should they quit too? Amazon LOST money until about 10 years ago)

    And how come Brad Duncan & Greg Duncan & Brad Walgomott & Scott Harimoto (see there’s a perfect example of DOZENS of platinums on one leg. Severn diamknd Duncan.diamomd Duncan. Diamond Walgomott diamond. . Harimoto. Diamond (how come none of them ever complained about the cost of CORE?)

    Matt never complained (he was a 21 yr old student. He managed to go to all major functions and be at 7500 within 7 months). His brother did it in 12 months. His sister did it in 4 months. None of them ever complained about the cost of flying to the mainland or paying for core.

    Thank you for teaching me the difference between winners & losers buddy.

    I’ll remember NOT to sponsor guys like you (& if they want to quit let em QUIT).

    None of these issues ever bothers a Tsuruda or a Duncan or a Puryear or a Baker. Now their next generation continues the legacy.

    What have you got? (As far as legacy)

  65. May 23, 2018 4:05 pm

    Yeah and most IBOs don’t go buying 7-8 CDs a week or buying 4-5 extra function tickets they can’t resell.
    (And that “most” includes people like me who most of the time just enjoy buying products they like anyway & have a few friends they’ve met from the business. My sponsor or platimum NEVER had me buying 7 CDs a week or 5 extra dream night tickets. That’s ridiculing).

    So just enjoy your retirement from your j j job and quit complaining ALREADY.

  66. May 23, 2018 4:35 pm

    Remember the 49ers a couple years ago?
    What’s the difference? Right coach. Right players.

    Build a winning team (& it starts with the leader which you aren’t! & I doubt your mentor was successful if he actually gave you such bad advice. 7 CDs a week? I heard one extra a week once from stage. Nobody ever told ME to bulk up on 5 extra dream night tickets. Brad Duncan slept in his car at functions. Wokgamott slept in the floor at Scott’s house instep of paying hotels )

    All the winners had in common is they all paid the price, did it RIGHT & didn’t quit.

    I respect any quitter who makes the right decision for their life. But there’s a HUGE difference between “whining’ & winning. Duh.

    I’m so glad I learned alot from you who NOT to make an offer to & who NOT to spend my time with!

  67. Joecool permalink
    May 23, 2018 4:47 pm

    You’re criticizing me, but that’s what WWDB was teaching back when I was a IBO.

    And you’re right, it was partly my fault but as a fairly new IBO, how as I to know what was good or bad advice at the time? I was told to listen to upline and they would teach us how to be successful.

    So with your awesome mentors in Amway, what have YOU accomplished?

  68. Joecool permalink
    May 23, 2018 4:48 pm

    And BTW, the 49ers still suck. They were 6-10 this past season.

  69. May 23, 2018 4:53 pm

    “wwdb” NEVER taught that (4 extra function tickets or 7 EXTRA CDs). NOT standard teaching. Now if YOUR sponsor taught you that I’d like to know a) how long you were in and b) how long that person was in and was it a fully qualified platimum teaching you that??

  70. May 23, 2018 5:02 pm

    Dude they we’re undefeated under their new starter (who went undefeated in fox borough as well). Under the new coach and new LEADER under center they beat every playoff team and we’re the only team with the perfect record down the stretch after mid season. .
    (And, as we tried to explain to those krapernik fans it’s called LEADERSHIP. Now #25 signed and many other because of who’s starting at QB and (yes every season is starting over at the grind).
    But I guess you somehow missed the point just like you MISSED the whole point of buying from yourself, attracting a few clients and then DULPICATING that (& I can tell right now you were NOT teachable so that means you were not 10/10 core. How long were you in before you hit 4000 (*& was half of that down one leg?) How long did you remain at 4000?
    (A year? 3 months? How long you stay at 4000 before you packed up your toys & went home?)

  71. May 23, 2018 5:04 pm

    Uhm. Elite players with Superbowl wins (like Sherman) don’t sign with loser teams.

    There’s a momentum there and it’s centered around the winning coach & leader QB.

  72. May 23, 2018 5:13 pm

    I went 2500 and MADE $$. ABOVE and beyond the cost of my CDs. (I had up to I think 9 bonus checks at one time).

    (Remember width is profitability. Depth is security. I would LOVE for a whiner 4000 to quit & leave me 6 FRONT line IBOs, half of whom (according to you and your eagle claim) are going to the majors.)

    Like I said we have a process for vetting people now. We don’t just “sign people up” (& watch them quit or fail).

    First red flag I’d watch out for is people like you. Very dangerous for wasting my time & for associating with the organization. (can’t build a championship around a negative locker room. Just ask krapernik. He took a winning team & torched it. Now he’s gone & they went undefeated under a new leader )..
    .so good luck & enjoy your retirement.

  73. May 23, 2018 5:50 pm

    BTW airfare from Hawaii to Portland is ONLY $400. X3 majors is $1200..
    So $250 a month (on 7 CDs. Did you actually LISTEN to them??
    + $100 average monthly cost of functions
    + $100 monthly average air travel
    + $100 average monthly hotel & car rental

    (How did you get to $1000 a month on cost of CORE??)

    And how did you NOT make money at 4000 PV with six checks & 10 customers?

    I just viewed a new IBO checks on Kate. One for $588 for her PV check + $288 for her fast track bonus. Looks beautiful with that new logo & those hundreds of $$$. (Did you get fast track? Did you have 150 in retail & personal use? )

  74. Joecool permalink
    May 24, 2018 9:25 am

    Richard Sherman is no longer “elite”. He is on the wrong side of 30 and he has achilles problems.

  75. Joecool permalink
    May 24, 2018 9:26 am

    WWDB never taught to buy extra functions? I guess I must have been hearing things when the Duncans taught it. Buy extra tickets in case the function sells out. You don’t want yout downline missing out on this valuable teaching.

  76. Joecool permalink
    May 24, 2018 9:27 am

    What planet are you from? How did San Fran go 6-10 and you turn that into undefeated?

  77. Joecool permalink
    May 24, 2018 9:29 am

    “”” I would LOVE for a whiner 4000 to quit & leave me 6 FRONT line IBOs, half of whom (according to you and your eagle claim) are going to the majors.)”””

    Except when I quit, I told my downline why I was leaving and they left with me. My upline went from platinum down to 2500. 🙂

  78. May 24, 2018 9:33 am

    One of the smartest DBs ever! And yesterday he was coaching up the younger guys on their game. Hey!

    Association & experience. What’s that worth?
    (Apparently it was lost on you because, if you’re as brilliant as you pretend to be you’d be passing up Scotty & be hanging with B Duncan at his penthouse (in the city “where all the action is”)

    Last month Trevor Baker (yes that DOUBLE DIAMOND sonof EDCs Glen & Joya) was hanging with Matt (at his house on the beach in Hawaii).

  79. May 24, 2018 9:35 am

    Yeah well the key is to HAVE DOWNLINE to offer tickets TO
    (But you’re probably like “most people” & never sponsored anybody)

  80. May 24, 2018 9:39 am

    Well there ya go Sherlock. You’re a brilliant selfish dream stealer .shame on you.
    Even if Ken himself told me to quit I wouldn’t do it. Cuz its MY dream

    (& If you sponsored a bunch of quitters (* & you violated the #1 cardinal rule) no WONDER why it “didn’t work” for you. You got exacto what you deserved)

    As for me Brad Duncan is gonna know my name & see my house on the lake.

    Thank you again for motivating me!

    See ya!!!

  81. Joecool permalink
    May 24, 2018 9:58 am

    For your information, I had 12 front line IBOs downline.

    I build my business with the parameters that were considered “solid” by upline. But they also advised hyper consumption of training and tools which put my profits into their pockets.

    Now sure why you can’t see this.

  82. Joecool permalink
    May 24, 2018 9:59 am

    When you buy from yourself, that isn’t some kind of magical business transaction. You just became a customer of Amway. Only when you actually sell something to a real customer at a profit are you actually running a business.

  83. May 24, 2018 10:06 am

    Man the problem with you is you don’t PAY ATTENTION! (You probably did NOT hear the part from a CD or stage where you are instructed to “check with your upline” for your particular situation)
    I WROTE “DOWN THE STRETCH”!
    MEANING: the final 5 games of the season. Only team they went undefeated, even beating every playoff team they faced. (*under new LEADER Jimmy G. Same exact team that went 1-10 before he took over. Get it??)

    The reason you failed is YOU (NOT the cost of the CDs– if they cost too much THEN DON’T BUY THEM ). WHEN I decided I couldn’t do it I stayed in as a wholesale customer (& never ever would I ever go without double x – done it a couple times and it was a noticeable difference!!).

    I just got sick of seeing everybody else win & decided “WHY not me??”

  84. May 24, 2018 10:09 am

    No sh## Sherlock. Boy you’re a genius! 🙄
    That’s why Amway had the 10 customers rule which they changed to 50 PV
    (I can guarantee you weren’t even doing that and THAT’S why you didn’t make any money)

  85. May 24, 2018 10:19 am

    Matt did that (& made millions & flew private jet to New York with Ron & GL & spend all day surfing & being with his family. )
    Now he’s going from millions to BILLIONS & passing on the legacy to his daughters who he is mentoring as well as people like Ken & me.

    (So what’s your legacy? 🤔)

  86. May 24, 2018 10:42 am

    See the problem with you is you think you know it all (*& I laugh & laugh at what you DON’T know).

    I know the answer to why Bradley David Duncan (who spends more money on taking people out to dinner than you make all year) is now hitting it 5-6 nights a week (when he’s not on a free vacation to places like Scottland & South Africa or Peter Island (where they all know his name. How many five star resort staff know your name? 🤔) .
    Do you?

  87. Joecool permalink
    May 24, 2018 12:17 pm

    So you bought into the hype of Jimmy G String? The 49ers played better but they also played some weak teams and a team that played their practice squad before the playoffs.

    I would hold off on buying super bowl tickets.

  88. Joecool permalink
    May 24, 2018 12:20 pm

    You keep on arguing that I failed. Well, I didn’t fail. I built my business to 4000 as I was advised by WWDB leaders. I had the parameters and I had profits. But the same WWDB leaders advised me to spend all profit back into tools (which they profit from). So I achieved my objective but my net profit was basically nothing.

    So I made a business decision to quit.

    Basically, your WWDB leaders failed me. And you weren’t there so don’t make up stuff about what I was or wasn’t taught.

  89. Joecool permalink
    May 24, 2018 12:23 pm

    You keep dodging the fact that buying from yourself does nothing for your business.

    If you have $20 and you spend $10 on energy drinks, Amway makes a profit and your upline possibly makes some profit off your volume.

    But you made nothing. Any perceived profit you think you made actually came out of your own pocket. That $20 you spend came from your job.

    You are only making a true profit when you have actual customers who put money into the system.

    If not you are spinning your wheels thinking you made a profit but in the end, you are just a glorified customer.

  90. May 25, 2018 8:04 am

    Uhm. They played like 3 playoffs teams and beat them all.

    Other players with Superbowl credentials only signed because of him. It’s called LEADERSHIP.

    Something you obviously never learned.

  91. May 25, 2018 8:38 am

    No. You failed. (& Blame it on somebody else. Typical). Now if your mentor/ coach was that bad I feel sorry for him and you.

    Again why is it Scotty didn’t worry about or complain about the cost of building his dream?
    I wonder if wogs complained about having to fly to Hawaii just for the weekend to help Scotty?

    How come Brad and Greg didn’t complain?
    What about Sears or Yuen or Alcott or Eaton?
    How come they made it (& paid the price for success? Why did Trevor Baker not complain & quit? He started out in Las Vegas when it was nothing. Now he makes a million a year & doubled function turn out got his own family reunion.

    So how come they (with the same tools & opportunity) made it & you didn’t?

    (I know the answer)

  92. Joecool permalink
    May 25, 2018 10:09 am

    49ers beat the bears and texans. Both had losing records. They got a lucky win against the Titans who are a marginal playoff team. They beat a decent Jacksonville team then they closed the season against the Rams practice squad.

    That is improvement, but hardly enough information to say they are suddenly a good team.

  93. Joecool permalink
    May 25, 2018 10:12 am

    How come Brad got divorced when I sat in a function where he said Amway saves marriages?

    How come Greg had loans and went bankrupt when I sat in a function where he said only stupid people take out loans?

    These are the people who were giving bad advice like buying extra function tickets.

    They used to talk about the fruit on the tree. The fruit is divorce and bankruptcy. Makes sense that they might have given bad advice based on their fruit.

  94. May 25, 2018 10:23 am

    Oook

    Let me give you two actual case in point examples.

    I bought a suit from Fredrick’s menswear. (Same suit. Same price anybody can go online or buy from their catalog. Suit came with PV/BV. So if a suit comes with 20 points & I got 1000 guys in my group buying a suit that’s 20,000 PV on ONE suit. Duplicated 1000 x

    Get it? What’s the profits on 20,000 pv? (Oh you wouldn’t know you never did 20,000 PV)

    I’m taking concentrated fruits & veggies. Learned it from Ken’s example in the plan. I’m at my mom’s house & she sees me taking it and SAYS……

  95. Joecool permalink
    May 25, 2018 12:23 pm

    OK, I get your suit example. Except you miss my point. In order to pay bonuses, Amway has got to charge extra for their products, especially items like suits where they come from a third party (Amway doesn’t make suits as far as I know) so you and your 1000 guys will be paying way more for those suits than the amount of bonus it will generate.

    So yeah 1 guy might be happy with the 20,000 PV, but more than likely, the 1000 who also bought suits will have paid more for a suit and got hardly anything back for it.

  96. Joecool permalink
    May 25, 2018 12:24 pm

    How come you ignored my post at 10:12?

  97. May 25, 2018 12:32 pm

    Uhm. No they don’t! 80% of the time the anyway owned brands will save you money at the retail price (*my mouth wash cost $5. Last 3 months. Scope costs the same. Barely lasts a month).

    Double x can’t be purchased anywhere else & nothing else compares.

    XS costs near same price as red bullcrap. But is WAY Better and not all the sugar.

    As an in get it at 30% less. Not including the bonuses up to 25% more back.

    Tide and scope pay for expensive ads on TV. Amway doesn’t.
    Tide & those have fillers. SA8 doesn’t.

    (Apparently you didn’t even do much research or personal use. )

    My customer asks me for XS. I make a 20% profit. He doesn’t complain about the price

    My house cleaner saw XX on the counter. Asked me to order her some. No other nutrition company owns their own organic farms or hundreds of parents.

    Get it??

  98. May 25, 2018 12:33 pm

    I was working on my ad business-. Just signed up another one.

  99. May 25, 2018 12:55 pm

    All the wwdb audios & videos are included (third party like John Maxwell might be separate). Books cost less than the retail store price.

    So now what is there to complain about? A fast track bonus is $150-300 not including the PV check. So tools cost $100 a month including purchase of one book. That’s a net plus cash flow. At 2500 I netted $350-400 after bonus checks.

    Anybody at 4000 with proper width should be getting a $15,000 minimum actual take home bonus if you annualize it. (What’s $1900 a month minus $400 for tools & functions?)

  100. Joecool permalink
    May 25, 2018 3:45 pm

    Amway XS drinks. 12 – 8.4 oz. cans = $28.32 not including shipping.

    http://www.amway.com/Shop/Product/Product.aspx/XS-Energy-Drink-Variety-Case?itemno=748178

    Red Bull 12 – 8.4 oz cans. = $18.73 not including shipping.

    https://www.walmart.com/ip/Red-Bull-Energy-Drink-Original-8-4-Fl-Oz-12-Count/10316267

    Save nearly $10 on that one product alone.

  101. Joecool permalink
    May 25, 2018 3:47 pm

    Show your math on how a 4000 would take home $1500 a month.

  102. May 25, 2018 3:55 pm

    Shit product doesn’t even taste good. Has not half of the vitamins and has mostly sugar & caffeine. ..
    Try comparing the QUALITY. hellooooooo

  103. May 25, 2018 5:17 pm

    You asked for it. Here it is!
    (“With = profitability”)
    “What’s not 19”??

    https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=10155616809806818&id=616306817

  104. May 25, 2018 5:26 pm

    On about $8 a day in personal use ,+ ,3 customers that = 330 PV
    Get 12 wide. That = 4300 PV.
    Net bonus check = $2300.
    (You didn’t learn that part about “300 PV circle” & personal width??)

    “What’s not 19?”

  105. May 25, 2018 5:33 pm

    Okay. 6 bonus checks (cuz I understand thats all you were capable of) and they each sponsor one (X 330 PV) will still get you $1950 a month.

    (So how much was your bonus check St 4000 “eagle”??🤔).

    You’re personally consuming $8 a day to gross $1950 in bonus money. (Was that math too difficult for you?)

  106. May 25, 2018 5:44 pm

    My customers do not ask me for XS to “save money”.

    I can show you a big price difference between a Toyota and a Hyundai or between a Toyota and a mercedes 🤔

  107. May 28, 2018 10:32 am

    Six bonus checks. 650 each. That’s 3900 + your 300. That’s how. You should be making 14% on $12,000 (+ your 300; PV personal use & retail. You get 30% retail profit off $900 + 23% bonus profit.

    $1680 + $570 = how much?

  108. Joecool permalink
    May 29, 2018 10:18 am

    Your link didn’t work.

    You say you don’t like Red Buill? There are many other energy drinks that taste better. Overall, red bull outsells Amway XS by a ton.

    Amway is the Hyundai and Red Bull is the mercedes.

  109. May 29, 2018 10:27 am

    Uhm no. Red bullcrap is the Toyota (* outsells Mercedes by a TON. Does that make it better? 🤔).

    Most fitness professionals have posted online they prefer more vitamins & less sugar & 8 calories.
    (XS has ZERO sugar and only 8 calories & 5 X the vitamins of red bullcrap. Also the taste is way better (available in 8 different tasty flavors. My #1 customer keeps asking me for the wildberry one. He doesn’t ask me for it to “save money” or complain about the price).

    And we have caffeine free versions with vitamin C also (red bullcrap doesn’t offer that)

  110. Joecool permalink
    May 29, 2018 11:34 am

    Your like of XS and dislike of red bull is subjective. Red bull revenue worldwide almost matches all of Amway’s.

  111. May 29, 2018 11:35 am

    Well my customers ask me for it. That’s all that matters. Red bullcrap ain’t buying me a house at lake Tahoe.

  112. May 29, 2018 11:38 am

    https://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2017/08/28/546800290/interpol-calls-for-arrest-of-fugitive-red-bull-heir-thai-police-say
    Interpol Calls For Arrest Of Fugitive Red Bull Heir, Thai Police Say …

  113. May 29, 2018 11:48 am

    0 sugars. 10 calories. 4900% B12

    Vs 37 grams of sugar. 168 calories.
    Less than 5% of the amount of B12 found on Xs.

    And a WHOLE LOT of advertising everywhere
    (When is the last time you saw an XS ad?)

  114. Joecool permalink
    May 29, 2018 2:52 pm

    Justifying your product? I tried XS and it’s okay. Red Bull is cheaper and just as good in my opinion.

    Your link about some red bull heir being in trouble is a straw man. It has no relevance.

  115. May 30, 2018 2:08 pm

    You SAID you can afford $20,000 a month for rent. (FIRST of all of be willing to bet you don’t even make that much. Second you need around $60,000 gross in order to qualify for a $20,000 rent payment (or at bare minimum $50,000).

  116. Joecool permalink
    May 31, 2018 10:05 am

    I could afford to pay $20,000 in rent if I needed to. I don’t need $60,000 in monthly income if I have sufficient cash reserves. (I guess you didn’t know that)

    How do you know what Matt’s rent is? Even if he can afford that, why would be pay that much rent instead of just buying the place?

  117. May 31, 2018 12:58 pm

    Dude you don’t listen or pay attention very well (& I guarantee you that’s why you FAILED in your Amway business)…

    I SAID Matt just bought a 2.5 acre property on the ocean at North shore & is rennovating (* that’s why they need to rent the $20,000 a month house. Hellooooooo??)

    I ALSO said (several times) his older brother (*ALSO a platinum who has gone emerald & who coached their dad to founders Ruby) is one of my best closest friends (I guess you missed the part about “friendship first. Platimum second”)

    I know things you don’t know (& you apparently don’t know very much)

  118. Joecool permalink
    May 31, 2018 2:06 pm

    Thanks for clearing that up. I have a lot of close friends but I don’t tell them how much money I have. I don’t tell them what my monthly income is. I don’t tell them what my expenses are.

    Why do Amway people do this?

  119. June 3, 2018 10:08 am

    Why do people sometimes ask me how much money I make when I meet up with them?
    (& Didn’t YOU ask me what I’d accomplished? 🤔)

    The subject OF THIS discussion is “does the Amway business model work?”. Well it works quite well , as you’ve pointed out G Duncan made more money every month than I made in a year my first year in the advertising business.

    I don’t know…it just excites me to know that someone like Matt Tsuruda or Howie Danzik lives the way I would like to as a man (being single in SIlicon Valley it’s gonna take a LOT of money to provide a decent life for any girlfriend or wife. A simple 3 br costs 1.5 million here. Not a mansion. Not a Beach house. A simple 3 br.
    (Of course since I don’t have a job tied to Silicon Valley I won’t need to buy an over priced house. Like with Matt or Howie my business will allow me to buy a house anywhere. A $200,000 house in Shasta lake would be nicer & I’ll pay cash for it.)

    As for the “fleet of Ferraris” nobody needs one or claims such a thing. But B& J Duncan have the “penthouse in the city where the action is” and the lambo and the Ferrari and the yacht and the jet and the Bentley (wow. He must a sold a lot of CDs ha? ). And to think Brad could have remained a construction worker and Julie a restaurant manager. Too bad Greg “scammed” Brad into that Amway business (I wonder how rich Dave Severn or Ron Puryear got off all those tapes Brad & Greg bought while going diamond 🤔).

    SMH 🙄

    (In case you didn’t get my (& Brad’s & Ken’s point) being around successful people MOTIVATES people. It’s called “World Wide DREAM Builders”)

    Only reason Brad Duncan became a millionaire (& he makes millions annually now) is because he had a dream & he never QUIT!

    (Mic drop)

  120. Joecool permalink
    June 4, 2018 10:02 am

    The fact is you don’t actually know what these folks make. They might make a lot but it may not be close to what you think it is. Even a million dollar a year income is not enough to sustain owning a jet.

    And Amway is like the lottery. You have some winners but millions who lose and contribute to the winners.

  121. June 4, 2018 1:48 pm

    So you were one of the Losers them? 🤔

  122. June 4, 2018 2:12 pm

    Looks like you and I both right?

  123. June 4, 2018 2:22 pm

    Speak for yourself pal. Winners never quit and quitters ALWAYS lose.

  124. June 4, 2018 4:36 pm

    So how did I lose now when I needed stuff to brush my teeth & rinse my mouth (that cost me less than the inferior Scope or crest product), wash my face & skin care (people have told me they can’t believe I’m 50+).
    Double x (I don’t dare go without them ), protein snacks & powder for when I’m working out. Allergy supplement for my friend who needs it

    Netted me $114 in savings at wholesale. How did I lose ? 🤔

  125. June 5, 2018 9:35 am

    Glister from Amway.com. $4.50 per tube not including shipping. (6.75 ounce)
    http://www.amway.com/supplements/Shop/Product/Category.aspx/Oral-Care

    Crest cavity protection. $5.00 for 3 tubes!!!!!!!!! (6.4 ounce – total 19.2.ounces) Shipping not included but free shipping for orders of $35 or more from WalMart.com

    https://www.walmart.com/ip/Crest-Cavity-Protection-Toothpaste-Choose-Size/11027522?wmlspartner=wlpa&selectedSellerId=0&wl13=5274&adid=22222222227000045461&wl0=&wl1=g&wl2=c&wl3=66809297672&wl4=pla-78228953616&wl5=9032808&wl6=&wl7=&wl8=&wl9=pla&wl10=8175035&wl11=local&wl12=11027522&wl13=5274&veh=sem

    How do you get savings when I get 3 times more product for 50 cents more? Oh wait, you get “paid” 30 cents for buying glister and nothing for buying crest right?

  126. June 5, 2018 9:54 am

    Good for you! You learned how to shop at Walmart!(so do they send checks for your retirement? 🤔)

    Dude Crest is 3 x more per use (so I guess you never even learned how to use your own product? It’s only .03¢ per use at retail. Are you REALLY that broke/ penny pinching that .03¢ is gonna bankrupt you??)

    If I pay LESS (at retail) for a slightly larger container and they give me 3 containers for 50¢ less but I gotta use 3 x more product of their brand (of an inferior product) then what’s the end result? (come on. Do the math)
    My guess is you were NOT an accountant 😂😂😂

  127. June 5, 2018 12:50 pm

    What are you just making up stuff now? If I have 3 tubes of crest to one tube of glister, the crest is going to last way longer than glister. You’re trying to pull the bogus “use less” Amway product baloney that IBOs always try. Sorry, doesn’t work when crest gives you nearly 3 times more product.

    Of course you are welcome to post credible link with actual product comparisons. But of course you can’t/wont.

  128. June 5, 2018 12:56 pm

    You did not do well at math problems did you?

    If you actually USED your own product (step #2 in the ten core steps) you’d know that cost per use is less. It takes less than 1/3 the amount of crest to use glister. So if crest costs less but I gotta use 3-4 x more then which one actually costs less?

    If my BIG bottle of scope costs the same as my tiny bottle of glister but my glister lasts 3X longer than that big bottle of scope then which one actually costs less?

  129. June 5, 2018 1:15 pm

    So. You use a peace sized amount of glister vs 3-4X as much Crest. One little 5oz bottle of glister lasts me 3 months. Scope barely lasts a month

    Dude it’s no WONDER you FAILED
    (So how come Mandy Yamamoto or Pete Hirshelman didn’t use the same lame excuses you did? They went Diamond in the last 2 years. Pete’s now moving his family into a 6000 square foot house here in the bay area).

    So I can A) make excuses like you did or
    B) get it done.

    See you later.

  130. June 5, 2018 1:42 pm

    Okay. Math problem for you:
    John uses Crest which lasts about 15 days, brushing 3X per day
    Joe used glister which lasts about 50 days brushing 3 x per day.

    John can buy 3 tubes of Crest for $5
    Joe can buy one tube of glister for $4.50.

    Which one costs less?

  131. June 5, 2018 3:09 pm

    So who has shown evidence that glister lasts 3 times longer than crest? You just made that up.

  132. June 5, 2018 3:17 pm

    Uhm. You never used your own product I can tell. You’re clueless. Completely clueless.

  133. June 5, 2018 4:03 pm

    You use a pea sized amount of glister vs a whole inch long swirl on crest.

    Personal use (so I’m guessing you missed Greg’s talk about personal use?)

    Do you know what a bioflavonoid is?

    Do you know why they put nutrilite in those opaque white bottles?

    Do you know why we take double x twice a day (instead of “once daily”?)

    Do you know the difference between our nutrilite acerola cherry vitamins c and the “ascorbic acid” found in the cheaper drug store variety supplements?

    Do you know what a “bowl ringer” is?

    What percentage of the amway owned brands will save you money at retail?

    Do you know how many patients nutrilite owns?
    Do you know what “nutriloc” is?

    How many customers does it take to make a 300 PV circle?

    Do you know what “L.O.C”. Stands for?

  134. June 5, 2018 4:09 pm

    Did you say “Diamonds cannot afford private school”?? SERIOUSLY?? (You did not say that did you? 😂😂🤣🤣)

    That is not why they home school kids.

    How about always traveling the world so they bring the kids with them

    Or how about Dan & Sandy pay a private teacher to school their boys. Amazing what can be learned in less time with a one on one or one on three students teacher ratio (-& you can travel on your schedule- NOT the school schedule. You missed that $7 tape or CD where Greg told about WHY he home schooled the kids. It’s his schedule!! School got mad at all the trips/ absences. So he home schooled them and gave them immersion Spanish in Costa Rica. )..
    Dumb@##.

  135. June 6, 2018 12:27 pm

    “”You use a pea sized amount of glister vs a whole inch long swirl on crest.””

    A pea sized amount of Crest does the same job.

    “”Do you know why we take double x twice a day (instead of “once daily”?)””

    So you can buy overpriced vitamins more often?

  136. June 6, 2018 12:30 pm

    “”Did you say “Diamonds cannot afford private school”?? SERIOUSLY?? (You did not say that did you? 😂😂🤣🤣)

    That is not why they home school kids.””

    Being that Greg Duncan went bankrupt and David Shores lost a home to foreclosure, maybe some diamond can’t afford private school.

    Even if Greg Duncan didn’t go bankrupt, he was making good money as a triple diamond but it’s not enough to travel the world with your family while paying a tutor to teach your kids as you travel. These Amway diamonds are nowhere near as wealthy as corporate giants like Bill Gates or the WalMart heirs.

  137. June 7, 2018 8:13 am

    And so neither are you (as wealthy as Bill Gates)
    So what’s your point?.🤔

  138. June 7, 2018 8:20 am

    Ok. So I ordered $380 worth of stuff on Monday. Got an email yesterday my shipment had arrived. Opened my door. Three boxes.
    I got $114 in savings / profit (some of that stuff was for customer) and I love the xs drink, the zesty protein snacks. Take some coQ 10 for my heart & gums
    New order of double X
    Loved the protein powder this morning as my shake.
    Last night I opened a new pack of toothbrushes (that toothbrush worked better reaching back teeth than the one I had from Walgreens. ) New tooth paste (never even liked created once I started using Glister – which doesn’t scratch the enamel BTW). New mouth wash (my other little bottle finally ran out after 3 months.

    Gotta wash tone & moisturize my face (people can’t believe I’m 50+).

    Love the stuff and I get a bonus checks for using it
    (Show me again where I lost? 🤔)

  139. June 12, 2018 12:11 pm

    I wonder if Malachy has quit Amway?

  140. June 12, 2018 3:50 pm

    I wonder if Brad Duncan (who just got back from an exclusive founders trip with Doug Devoss on their luxury yacht in the Mediterranean and was then flown in a first class suite on Singapore airlines to Bangkok for the NAGC (NORTH American Growth council) trip) would want to trade places with “Joe Cool”..

    Can you Joe Cool please show me how I can get a penthouse & a yacht and a Rolls Royce and be free?

    Can you teach me that?

  141. June 13, 2018 8:46 am

    “”Can you Joe Cool please show me how I can get a penthouse & a yacht and a Rolls Royce and be free?””

    Start a software company that rivals microsoft.

    Who has achieved those things under Brad Duncan would be a better question. And even if you can name perhaps 1 or 2. how many others tried and did not achieve it? I’d say Brad has a poor track record.

  142. June 13, 2018 9:10 am

    Yeah pretty poor track record. They’ve got half a dozen people downline from them whom they’ve helped make more money then you
    Attalah
    Wolgamott
    Kosage
    Harimoto
    Eaton (you should see their luxury condo in Seattle).
    Angiule.

    And that does not include rubies & saohires and all their emeralds.

    (BTW nobody is responsible for making anybody else successful. All we can do is open the door and teach the teachable. You were obviously not teachable that is why you FAILED).

  143. June 13, 2018 10:54 am

    I wouldn’t want to be like Brad Duncan who lies and cheats his downline for his fortunes.

  144. June 13, 2018 2:35 pm

    Sure. Right. If it didn’t BOTHER you that you quit (& FAILED) you wouldn’t be here COMPLAINING all the time & trying to justify it to yourself. (so. Did you refund them all?)

  145. June 13, 2018 3:43 pm

    I post here and in other places to warn people not to believe the misinformation and lies that the WWDB people tell.

  146. June 13, 2018 8:22 pm

    What the flip do YOU care??
    If you’re happy with your quit then just enjoy your life!

    You’re like some obsessed ex stalking your ex and telling everyone how bad she was. B

  147. June 14, 2018 7:04 am

    Name one “lie” or “misinformation”🤔

  148. June 14, 2018 11:59 am

    “””Name one “lie” or “misinformation”””

    Our group was told a number of lies.

    1. NOBODY makes a profit from the tools and functions
    2. WWDB is a non profit organization
    3. Diamonds pay cash for everything, including houses
    4. The divorce rate in WWDB is 2% and the rest of the world is 50% (Wolgamott and Kosage alone blows up the percentage)
    5. You are guaranteed to be at 7500 PV if you are core for 12 months

    I can name more but I doubt you can refute any of these to begin with.

  149. June 14, 2018 4:05 pm

    Yeah it’s “not as good as they say” ha🤔

    Well #1 I was NOT told that “nobody makes money off tools”. Ken told me CDs are $2.50 for premiere members & $7 for non members.
    Books? The book in reading cost half as much through wwdb as it did from Barnes & nobles

    #2. It’s not a “non profit” (your sponsor probably made that up or mistranslated it)
    It’s a “not for profit LLC”. Still gotta pay the secretaries & staff who actually work at the office in Spokane (& I don’t know how much they paid for that building as the HQ).

    As far as divorcio? I know of 4 diamonds who divorced. (I heard that “2%” claim too). But 4 diamonds is NOT the 50% like in the job world. And nobody I know in wwdb got married a third time. As for W, I heard he cheated on her. Good looking rich guy (who’s way too good looking for her I guess – I’m sure he thought so). I remember Bradley D talking about their crappy marriage & sitting on their counter trying to be the peace maker/ counselor.

    I ain’t a counselor (& don’t wanna be one).

    How do YOU (or wwdb) know what the real stars in marriage are? Many people quit before they divorce & many people stick it out & succeed at marriage- and business, like Matt – Sandee. They were ready to divorce but didn’t.

    As for “guaranteed” me anything except #1 the products & #2 they’d help me build it.
    It SAYS right on every single audio that “nobody can guarantee you it will work for you”.
    (Whoever told you that was the BS er not wwdb. )

  150. June 15, 2018 10:37 am

    When WWDB could not hide tool and function profits because of the internet, they came clean and admitted that profits are made, although they downplay the magnitude of the profits. Tools and functions have higher profit margins and less people receiving payment than Amway bonuses so of course the income can be significant. Don’t forget that to get that $2.50 rate on a CD, you have to pay the WWDB premiere club fee which is about $50 monthly.

    The non profit claim is true,. Of course since you defend Amway you will deny it.

    4 diamonds divorcing is only a small portion of WWDB. WWDB is not limited to diamonds and I highly doubt that divorces are tracked by WWDB. Not to mention some people might get divorced BECAUSE OF AMWAY. Ironic that Wolgamott got divorced when he was the one teaching that WWDB saved marriages.

    Truth is, Amway and WWDB people probably divorce as much as anyone else but it becomes an issue when you teach people that WWDB will save your marriage. Guess what? Church attenders also have the same divorce rate as the rest of the world. Why would anyone believe that Amway or WWDB people would be exceptionally different?

  151. June 15, 2018 10:44 am

    I agree. I am not in the marriage business or saving marriage business. Just show me how to make money & I’ll be fine.

    So. Do they divorce because of Amway? Or do they fail at Amway because of a bad marriage? 🤔

    I’m a Catholic so I would never get divorced (unless, like with Danzik, she cheated on me).

    All I wanna do is make about $300,000 a year and be free. Debt free. Job free.
    (I ain’t got no marriage so I ain’t got no “marriage troubles”).

    Can you personally teach me how to do that? Make $300,000 A YEAR WITHIN 3 YEWRS?

  152. June 15, 2018 11:54 am

    Well, to be honest, nobody asked for Susan’s side of the story so nobody knows. Maybe it was Howie who was fooling around. But I guess in Amway, you just take his side of the story as fact without really knowing. Just like when someone says they earn millions.

    Can I teach you to make $300,000? Yes. In Amway, your change of going diamond is about 1 in 20,000 or a fraction of 1%.

    Go to Vegas and place $300,000 on “red” on the roulette wheel. That will give you about a 47% chance of making $300,000 quickly and with a much greater chance of success than Amway.

  153. June 15, 2018 12:00 pm

    It’s “Suzan”. Not Susan. Howie was conflicted whether it was moral to even get a divorce. Your partner screwing around on you is clearly the only exception. So he thought and prayed and decided (since she cheated) it was ok to divorce her.
    Anyway he overcame that and built a bigger business and a better marriage (now they are in the North America Growth Council trip to bankock )

    Your odds mean nothing. My Chances of going Diamond are 100%. (And, btw, those “20,000” or 10,000is the whole IDEA. Get 6% of the monthly recurring purchases of thousands of household’s. Do the math. )

  154. June 15, 2018 12:05 pm

    Like I said, nobody knows because nobody asked Suzan for her side of the story.

    Maybe Howie was cheating and lied about the whole story.

  155. June 15, 2018 12:07 pm

    I think your wife left you (that’s why you keep bringing up this marriage questions)

  156. June 15, 2018 12:12 pm

    Sure, when you run out of an actual response in a debate, you attack the messenger instead of the message.

    “My Chances of going Diamond are 100%.”

    LOL, that’s why you can name about 6-7 new diamonds in the last 20 years while just as many have died or quit WWDB.

  157. June 15, 2018 1:08 pm

    “20 years”? They’re not even using the same methods it process as 20 years ago.
    20 years ago there was no texting, no emails, no digital download no Skype or webinar’s.

    Give us a BREAK

  158. June 15, 2018 1:34 pm

    So your wife DID leave you? (You didn’t answer that but instead went in the offensive. That’s the REAL reason you wait & why you’re upset. )

    BTW how much do you think Jim Puryear makes off those membership & function tickets? 🤔. Is that how they paid for that $10 million house on the river?

  159. June 15, 2018 3:01 pm

    Sorry dude, been married over 20 years. Quitting Amway made my marriage better.

    Well, if a function charges $125 for a ticket and 10,000 attend, that 1.25 million minus the cost of the venue and clean up/set up crew. The platinums work as free help so the diamonds make nice profits from the big functions.

  160. June 15, 2018 3:02 pm

    Don’t forget the profits off WWDB premiere club, Communikate, books and local functions plus open meetings.

  161. June 15, 2018 3:06 pm

    $20 for local functions. Who’s buying a yacht off that?

  162. June 15, 2018 3:32 pm

    $20 – 2000 in attendance = $40,000 gross profit for a weekend. Weekly sales of cds plus the monthly take from Communikate, premiere club, books, open meetings, plus 4 major functions.

    It adds up to good profits, possibly more than Amway income.

  163. June 15, 2018 3:39 pm

    FIRST of all (& this is an obvious CLUE) you don’t even know the difference between “revenue” & “earnings”. (I won’t be taking investment advice from you buddy).

    Second of all, MOST of the local functions do NOT have “2000 attendees” (& NOT everybody pays. Guests are free. – sane thing with major function. Every married couple is entitled to 2 guest tickets. So half don’t pay the $125. Also platinums don’t pay).
    .third…there is a COST involved with renting the facility & paying insurance
    Some local functions actually lose money BTW

    Did you say Howie “charges $265” for a seminar or something like that?
    (Maybe that’s how he bought 3 homes and an airplane. Had no idea 😉)

  164. June 15, 2018 4:17 pm

    You didn’t know? Some diamonds hold their own functions. There was a guy who (not WWDB) held his own cruise that he strongly encouraged his group to go and and charged them something like $5000 to attend. (Fred Harteiss)

  165. June 15, 2018 8:00 pm

    😮😂😂🤣🤣🤣. Hahaaa
    That’s so ridiculously! $5000???
    I will never make money off “training”.
    Why not produce the events at cost and the audio materials at cost?

    Originally rich & jay were Against all these “systems” (& in Vietnam they’re illegal. Only distributors can sponsor other distributors but they can’t have a system)

  166. June 18, 2018 8:40 am

    Ridiculous but true. Seems that exploiting downline is how diamond make a significant portion of their money. It may not be a $5000 cruise but a $125 FED or $250 family reunion plus premiere club and communiKATE.

  167. June 18, 2018 8:29 pm

    Kate helps us keep in touch (with a growing large organization) without having to make 50 phone calls a day! (Or 200 in your example of how many IBOs on a platinum group).

    THINK JOE you need to THINK!

  168. June 19, 2018 10:38 am

    KATE is a big money maker for your diamonds. You could easily transmit important information to a group by email, twitter, facebook or some other social media. You could even create an exclusive group on facebook to transmit important information or your diamond could just create their own website and the downline could check the website for updates.

    But upline makes way more money on KATE!

  169. June 19, 2018 10:41 am

    We have our own social media through Facebook it’s called dream stream.

    Also reading an email is not the same as hearing someone’s voice when they give a testimonial, answer a question or tell a story.

    It’s been extremely helpful to me (& we can retail it to others outside the business. .outbound / inbound calls via toll free #, fax. And attachment of pictures & notes to audio files. )

  170. June 19, 2018 11:41 am

    “”Also reading an email is not the same as hearing someone’s voice when they give a testimonial, answer a question or tell a story.””

    You could easily post a selfie video on twitter or facebook instead of the whole group paying $37 a month for an outdated voicemail system.

    BTW, upline diamond makes about $15 for each voicemail subscription. If Matt has 1000 downline, that’s how he’s paying most of his $20,000 rent.

  171. June 19, 2018 12:01 pm

    Oh. And you know this HOW (about the $15)?

  172. June 19, 2018 12:03 pm

    AGAIN you’re really bad with math. $15,000 doesn’t quite equal $20,000 😉

  173. June 19, 2018 3:34 pm

    I was friends with someone who used to be a platinum when KATE was in use. After he quit, he told me about some of the diamond’s secrets, including how they make pay outs to the diamonds at functions.

  174. June 19, 2018 3:48 pm

    Why don’t you ask Matt Tsuruda how much he makes from KATE? If he tells you how much he earns as well as his living expenses, disclosing his KATE profits should be a no brainer right?

  175. June 19, 2018 4:27 pm

    Right. I’ll corner him in the hotel at the next function 😉

  176. June 19, 2018 4:40 pm

    Or I could just go Diamond and own a pice of KATE & WWDB.

  177. July 9, 2018 1:12 pm

    Yeah, I’d like to see that. Of course the more likely scenario is that you’ll quit and disappear from this forum. I’ve been blogging for 15 years now and I’ve seen many like you who talk big and after a few months, disappear only to never re-surface. And that includes people who were platinums.

  178. July 9, 2018 1:23 pm

    Yeah I’d disappear because I’d be too busy enjoying my freedom & helping others get free.
    Winners don’t usually hang around losers.

  179. July 9, 2018 4:04 pm

    Diamonds hang around their downlines quite a bit.

    You keep talking about freedom and uber wealth.

    What have you accomplished in Amway thus far?

  180. July 9, 2018 4:18 pm

    (man you do NOT pay attention, do you??)
    I already TOLD you I went 2500 PV. Got a check for over $700. Pretty much covered my “costs” for a $5 CD or a $20 fu.nction 🙄

    (HOW did I “lose” money again??)

    BTW did you have the ten customer qualifications for your Amway business??

  181. July 9, 2018 4:51 pm

    How much are you paying for the major functions? They don’t cost $20.

    How much are your downline losing?

  182. July 9, 2018 6:06 pm

    $124 x 3 + $75 for dream night. Now divide that by 12. You do the math.

    ONLY about 200 people fit in a dream night at$75. That includes a catered dinner (at least $15-20 per plate costs) + the rental of the room plus air faires for 4 + the crew. + The AV production + Hotel rooms at $400 a night minimum (need help with the math again??)

  183. July 10, 2018 10:50 am

    You don’t know the math because you don’t get to see the intake and what the actual costs are. I can guarantee you one thing. If diamonds weren’t making money off these functions, they wouldn’t exist.

  184. July 10, 2018 11:56 am

    No functions….no way to train your whole group Nationwide (while living in Hawaii for 5 mos out of the year).

    Dude you just don’t get it. Never did. That’s why you quit. Losers do that.

  185. July 10, 2018 11:59 am

    Yup I’m all in! (That’s called “commitment”. Good men don’t start what they can’t finish)

    I’ll send you post cards after they rebuild Peter island. 😉😁

  186. July 11, 2018 10:02 am

    No way to train your group without functions? That’s BS. When someone other than your diamond teaches, it’s called cross lining. It’s frowned upon but allowed at functions? Why?

    You haven’t heard of youtube or facebook where you entire group could access the training for free, and have more more for thinks like purchasing Amway products? But upline makes more money selling tools and functions.

    Who needs voicemail these days? Your silly justification for KATE just shows that you’re bought the lies hook line and sinker. There is absolutely no need for KATE except that upline diamonds make a nice profit off it.

    Diamonds make $$$ from KATE subscriptions, books, audio files, functions, open meetings and probably some other sources such as WWDB memberships, etc. The real business of Amway is to reach a level where you share in the tools and functions profits, where the real money is made.

  187. July 12, 2018 1:03 pm

    I noticed Malachy skipped over my last comment.

  188. July 12, 2018 1:04 pm

    Was it worth noticing?

  189. July 12, 2018 2:25 pm

    Not if you already bit hook line a sinker into the WWDB teaching.

  190. July 12, 2018 2:32 pm

    Not what?

  191. July 16, 2018 10:45 am

    Malachy shows someone’s brain on Amway/WWDB.

  192. July 16, 2018 10:57 am

    And?
    Joe cool’s comments show he HAS no brain.

  193. July 16, 2018 11:37 am

    No way to train your group without functions? That’s BS. When someone other than your diamond teaches, it’s called cross lining. It’s frowned upon but allowed at functions? Why?

    You haven’t heard of youtube or facebook where you entire group could access the training for free, and have more more for thinks like purchasing Amway products? But upline makes more money selling tools and functions.

    Who needs voicemail these days? Your silly justification for KATE just shows that you’re bought the lies hook line and sinker. There is absolutely no need for KATE except that upline diamonds make a nice profit off it.

    Diamonds make $$$ from KATE subscriptions, books, audio files, functions, open meetings and probably some other sources such as WWDB memberships, etc. The real business of Amway is to reach a level where you share in the tools and functions profits, where the real money is made.

  194. July 23, 2018 2:53 pm

    Uhm. No the IRS does not audit my retail/ wholesale savings & tax me 🙄.

    They’re going to look at the checks I get from Amway & 1099.

    Second. I’ve done the math on the ap. 200 IBOs doing 300 PV (using about $8 a day + 3 retal clients each) = $29,000 a month net income. So can you do that at Walmart?? 🤔

  195. July 23, 2018 3:12 pm

    All you’ve done here is admit you cheat on your taxes. Of course any retail profit is taxable income for a business. Didn’t you know that?

  196. July 23, 2018 3:14 pm

    “””Second. I’ve done the math on the ap. 200 IBOs doing 300 PV (using about $8 a day + 3 retal clients each) = $29,000 a month net income. So can you do that at Walmart?? “””

    I did the math too and if I find $1000 a day, I’ll make more money than your scenario.

  197. July 23, 2018 3:20 pm

    The IRS does NOT tax wholesale members (or anybody else who makes less than $500 a year is NOT required to file it as income. Amway pas 3% at 100 pc or about $11 a month. Does NOT qualify as taxable income nitwit).

    Now if your going to do 4000 PV and get $1200 a month then that is taxable.

  198. July 23, 2018 3:29 pm

    No you won’t.

  199. July 23, 2018 3:57 pm

    The goal isn’t to make less than $500 a year or is it?

  200. July 23, 2018 4:04 pm

    Alot of people (like me) are happy being wholesale members. I don’t get taxed on it and neither has the IRS audited me or sent me a bill for my “wholesale savings” 🙄.

    As far as declaring income any amount over $500 a year gets a 1099. .and I deducted my phone bill, my car expenses, meals and hotels when I travel. Can you do that Mr “retired millionaire”??

  201. July 23, 2018 4:19 pm

    If you’re running a hobby type business, you can’t just deduct any expenses unless those expenses were directly related to your business and making money for that business. Deducting meals and things are questionable expenses that the IRS has a record of hosing Amway IBOs for.

    https://www.forbes.com/sites/peterjreilly/2016/06/25/tax-court-denies-amway-losses-due-to-lack-of-profit-motive/#d86e81f3ab61

  202. July 23, 2018 4:36 pm

    Actually. Wrong WRONG WRONG!
    If my income is a taxable threshold then I have to include it in my filing as a schedule C
    From there I get to deduct expenses like automotive costs, transportation, meals (when out of town) & my cell phone & Dru cleaning.
    Pay taxes on the net amount.

    Same as for my ad business. If I need to rent a car to go out of town or pay hotels it’s a write off.

    (Pretty obvious by now you are NOt an accountant 😂).

    As for auditing Amway IBOs I had a downline who, along with her job income, got audited. Presented them with her WWDb tax planner. They asked why she ate lobster. She said “because I was hungry”. Supervisor said “let her go you’ll never find anything on them”.

  203. July 23, 2018 4:46 pm

    Dude nobody in WWDB or tax planners northwest would suggest for someone to “lose 10,000-25,0000 a year”. That is NOT THE PLAN (*Which is WHY the tax court denied their petition, in addition to the six years of same results no CHANGE. )

    I’m not an accountant but I believe the maximum you can keep writing off a “loss” for “business expenses” is 3-4 years. And Ton Puryear HIMSELF said the only money he ever put out of pocket from his job was the started kit. AND he said core is $2000-4000 a year.

    Mic drop.

  204. July 24, 2018 9:16 am

    You sure make a lot of claims but have never provided a link to substantiate anything, which is why I took apart your toothpaste comparison.

  205. July 24, 2018 9:17 am

    Quote: “””The Amway distributorship system is well known to respondent (i.e. IRS)and this Court

    A brief summary of what the critics have to say about Amway is that very few people make money at it. Those that do may well exagerate their earnings to impress and motivate their “downline”. The relationship between the upline and downline has elements of cult like behavior. Most of the “soap” is bought by the IBO’s themselves. Those in the upline who are making a lot of money are making most of it from selling “tools” (motivational tapes and the like) to the downline. I don’t know whether this is all true or not, but the Amway hobby loss cases tend to support it. They almost all lost. Probably the most pervasive theme was that the IBO’s never seemed to try to control expenses and that they only sought advice from their upline, who were of course not going to give disinterested advice. I was able to draw a pretty clear lesson from the material.””””

    https://www.forbes.com/sites/peterjreilly/2011/07/26/drag-racing-and-amway-fun-not-profit/#3118af0f2e9c

    Notice how I can quote credible sources (Peter Reilly from Forbes) and substantiate with a link?

  206. July 24, 2018 10:39 am

    Quote: “””In a recent Tax Court case, a physician husband and a homemaker wife operated an Amway distributorship.

    On their tax returns they claimed $192,427.00 in losses against gross income in the amount of $29,489.00. Although they attended weekly and monthly Amway meetings and had 22 customers, 70% to 75% of their Amway sales volume was attributable to products and services that they purchased for themselves such as food, diapers, clothing and household products.

    The IRS disallowed the deductions they claimed on their tax returns, taking the position that their Amway distributorship was not engaged in for profit. The court looked at many factors, including the time and effort they expended on the Amway distributorship, and their success with the Amway distributorship including their history of income and losses.

    The Tax Court held in favor of the IRS, stating that they did not conduct the Amway activity in a business-like manner and did not engage in that activity with the requisite profit objective. The Tax Court also upheld penalties against the taxpayers. If you operate a home based business selling household, cosmetic and/or nutritional products.”””””

    https://www.sheehan-law.com/blog/amway-home-based-business-tax/

  207. July 24, 2018 11:07 am

    You mean like your claim of being “a retired millionaire”? (Yeah. Ok ). Any fool can make such a claim & anybody can verify the price of Colgate at Safeway and Glister at Amway.

    (Besides I’ve had customer refered TO me because of the toothpaste just like me they don’t like the other Brad’s and specifically sought out someone to get home the Glister after his ibo moved away. )

    Better quality aside, Glister costs less than Colgate.

    (And, with just 2 clients, my wonderful Amway products actually cost me nothing. That’s the part you don’t get. )

  208. July 24, 2018 11:13 am

    Yeah those fools were trying to pull a tax evasion scam. Has NOTHING to do with the amway corporation, or WWDb at all. Just a sickly immoral couple. (How could anybody POSSIBLY “LOSE” $182,000 OR ANY such sum in Amway business? All of the tapes/ CDs & functions only cost a maximum of $4000 a year, travel included. Now EVEN if they spent $10000 a month on additional travel, let’s say, trying to build their distance business how COULD they add up $182,000 in losses?.
    Sorry. Amway is NOT a tax shelter.

    Gimme a break
    SMH 🙄

  209. July 24, 2018 11:18 am

    STILL waiting for you to substantiate your “retired millionaire” stays or your “2 homes in Hawaii” claim.

    Bet you actually live at your mom’s house and work somekind of retail or average/ minimum wage job.

  210. July 24, 2018 12:16 pm

    Tell you what Malachy, you prove that Matt Tsuruda makes millions a year and pays $20,000 a month in rent while his mansion gets built and some of the other claims you’ve made. If you do that, I will show proof that my net worth exceeds 1 million dollars.

  211. July 24, 2018 12:17 pm

    I posted credible links substantiating that Amway IBOs get hosed in tax courts. More than likely you’d wind up in the same boat if your taxes got audited by the IRS.

  212. July 24, 2018 12:24 pm

    FIRST OF ALL. Neither he nor I EVER said he makes “Millions a year”.

    Secondly nobody ever said he was “building a mansion”.

    He bought a 2.5 acre property on the north shore (on the water) & had to do some rennovations and is renting a house for $20,000 a month. (You live on Oahu why don’t you go ask around what rents are for a beach front house on the north shore. )

    I could send you pictures of Matt’s rental house & his new 2.5 acre purchase as well as his sister’s newly renovated house in Colorado springs but this cluncky site of yours doesn’t have the capacity to upload pictures now does it.

    You STILL have mit substantiated tour “2 houses” in Hawaii or your “retired millionaire” claim.

  213. July 24, 2018 12:39 pm

    I can show you pictures of homes in Kailua where I live. I could show you pictures of anything you want. It’s not proof of anything. You made all the claims of excessive wealth and then asked me what I have accomplished. So you go back and prove all of the claims you made about Matt Tsuruda and I’ll show proof that my net worth is over 1 million dollars.

    Funny how you brag about how rich these diamonds are then turn around and demand proof from me.

  214. July 24, 2018 12:47 pm

    My. The devil knows how to waste my time! I gotta go. I’ve much more important things to do than talk to you.

  215. July 24, 2018 12:53 pm

    Ain’t got time to waste on you. LOSER

  216. July 24, 2018 1:24 pm

    In typical fashion, when the Amway adherent runs out of cogent arguments, the name calling begins. And in typical fashion, uses he term “loser” .

    Amway people just cannot see a world where there is anything better than Amway, which is so ironic. None of the big talkers I ever encountered on these forums has ever returned and pointed out how they later went platinum, emerald or diamond. All they do is disappear after a few months.

  217. July 24, 2018 1:56 pm

    SHOW ME something better! I’ve 🐝 around movies, TV, radio, automobiles & advertising and believe me if I’d found ANYTHING better, more impactful & significant than this I’d have DONE it!

    THIS is one of only 3 things I wanna do/ succeed at in life. My grandkids can’t inherit my advertising business. Not many people make it in the movie business. 90% of TV is a waste of time (& very few people succeed in that anyway. I’ve even gotten paid to sing but you know the odds in that business, Mr statistics).

    I’ve never heard of one Diamond who wished he was an accountant. I have, however, heard of numerous athletes who succeeded at THIS after their carreers were over (you know what NFL stands for right?)

  218. July 24, 2018 2:26 pm

    Why did some diamonds quit if Amway was so wonderful? Since most people who join Amway make nothing or lose money, doing nothing might be better than Amway. But seriously, investing and even getting a second job or side business such as installing hardwood flooring can be pretty lucrative. Basically, Amway diamonds sell a lie. There’s no shortcut to retirement and wealth, short of gaining an inheritance or winning the lottery.

    I always ask you how would you know about a diamond’s income because I’m fairly certain, based on Amway’s own disclosures, that a diamond probably isn’t rolling in as much income as they lead you to believe.

  219. July 24, 2018 3:31 pm

    You are truly an idiot (when it comes to understanding how Amway model works. )
    A “side business installing flooring”? Really? There’s a HUGE DIFFERENCE between having a part time job or small “side business” & building assets & generating wealth.

    And, FYI? It’s IN THEIR BROCHURE which is REQUIRED READING before anybody can register an IBO. Says average diamond is somewhere between $350,000-650,000 (that’s a rough ballpark not an exact quote – you yourself Said Duncan made $40,000 a month- see? You’re lying! Contradicting yourself. )
    BROCHURE SAYS top Diamond income was around $2,000,000 a year.

  220. July 24, 2018 3:35 pm

    The average diamond doesn’t make $350K to $650K. That’s for a founder’s diamond, which is the exception and not the rule.

    Greg Duncan’s income was public information when he filed for bankruptcy.

    You are having comprehension issues. A second job or side business is how you build capital to invest to build wealth. Whereas in Amway, most have negative cashflow because of standing order, WWDB premiere club or attending functions. How do you create wealth when you’re losing money?

  221. July 24, 2018 3:37 pm

    How do I lose money when, with just 3 clients my products are free AND there’s over $100 positive cash flow?

  222. July 24, 2018 3:51 pm

    3 clients = your products are free? You’ll have to explain how that works.

    $100 positive cash flow? So you don’t attend functions and have business expenses?
    That sounds a bit suspicious.

  223. July 24, 2018 4:05 pm

    I don’t “have to” explain ANYTHING. (You obviously never understood the simple math, you know, like addition & subtraction? If my personal use is $240 a month (about $8 a day, millionaire) and my profit from personal use + 3 clients is about $350 then I net out $100 or so and my products are paid for . Does “Walmart” do THAT??).

    Now, if my core costs about $200-300 a month max including travel to functions explain to me again how you “lose money” when your first circle profit is $350? (God forbid you should actually have, you know, 5 or more clients or actually dulpicate yourself, say 6-10 wide? You’d actually get $700 a month like I did. (I’m sorry can you explain again please how I “lost money” there? See I’m a little slow. I never got in my own business to lose money)

    Maybe all those investors who are losing money on Netflix right now should do what you do & open a blog?

  224. July 24, 2018 4:10 pm

    Ron Puryear NEVER put any money out of pocket to build his business except for the $100 or so for the starter kit. He actually got, you know, 15 clients from the first 20 people he showed the plan to.

    (WOW. What a concept. What step is retail clients on Core? Seems you forgot that one. )

  225. July 24, 2018 4:35 pm

    Most IBOs never sponsor anyone. Tell me how that works for those IBOs. Since most never sponsor anyone, that means most lose money if they are attending functions.

  226. July 24, 2018 5:07 pm

    Well. I guess they’re not really “CORE” then. Are they? (Last I checked showing the plan 10 X minimum per month was part of CORE wasn’t it?). Core usually works best as a system, meaning all the parts working together. Doesn’t matter how many functions you go to or how many books you read if you don’t DO anything it usually doesn’t work!
    (What a concept 🙄)

  227. July 24, 2018 5:12 pm

    That’s the lie. Many IBOs try very hard but because Amway is a failed system, getting people to see 10 plans per month is a nearly impossible task for people.

    Even showing 10 planes is no guarantee of success since most people can’t sponsor their own downline anyway.

  228. July 24, 2018 5:17 pm

    Wrong? Show 10 sponsor 2. Maybe you get 20 nos like Ron Puryear. Newsflash!! Most never showed 10 a month EVERY month for 3-6 months. And most QUIT after the 2nd no or by the 10yh no
    (Or here’s a novel concept: counsel upline & find out what you may be doing wrong.)
    Rolling my eyes at your dishonesty just like those cross-lining LOSERS who “lost their house”. Funny. Didn’t know discussing finances or passing negative cross-lining was part of CORE.

    I hardly showed ten a month & I had 8-9 legs.

  229. July 24, 2018 5:24 pm

    Oh. And what are you supposed to do with the nos do you remember?

  230. July 24, 2018 6:49 pm

    “, FAILED system”?? Yeah. Right. 8 billion annually no sticks no dent. 60 merchant partners and double digits growth in North America these past 2 years.
    (Oh yeah. And #1 selling nutritional supplier world wide. Aha. )

  231. July 25, 2018 8:42 am

    8 billion annually. Down more than 25% from 2013 when Amway did 11.8 billion. No debt? How do you know Amway has no debt? That’s an old talking point that was proven wrong in the past if you know how to use google. And #1 selling nutritional supplier worldwide is a HUGE lie.

    The #1 selling nutritional supplier in the world is Nestle. In he Americas alone they exceed 40 billion. You are just repeating lies that uplines tells without verifying for yourself. More than likely you are repeating income claim lies from upline as well.

    Nestle: https://www.nestle.com/investors/annual-report

  232. July 25, 2018 8:43 am

    You can’t believe that a couple in Amway/WWDB lost their homes to foreclosure? I’m not sure why that’s hard to believe when Greg Duncan and David Shores lost homes to foreclosure. That’s funny because I sat in the audience when Greg lied about paying for everything in cash and that only stupid people took out loans.

  233. July 25, 2018 10:39 am

    Nobody went black or lost their homes BECAUSE OF AMWAY. (Gee by your logic maybe Greg couldn’t afford ythe tapes books & travel to all those functions? 😆😎🤔)

    AGAIN you yourself stated he made $40,000 permonth (which is MORE than you’ve ever made & more than most people get out of their jobs)

    If be happy to live on $40,000 a month and pay Cash for that lake home at Shasta (*& only work my ad business when I want to)

  234. July 25, 2018 10:40 am

    Quote Malachy: “””FIRST OF ALL. Neither he nor I EVER said he makes “Millions a year”.”””

    “””Dude Matt was making $90,000 a month as an EDC.”””

    “””He probably makes 4-5 times that now”””

    Now that we’ve established that you either mis-spoke, lied, or just made up stuff, maybe we can talk about facts.

  235. July 25, 2018 10:41 am

    It’s not how much you make, but what you do with it. $40K per month and winds up bankrupt?

  236. July 25, 2018 10:49 am

    I said $90,000 a month (that isn’t millions)
    Sure glad you’re not my account or attorney.

    You have a hard time with numbers and with facts.

  237. July 25, 2018 10:51 am

    $40,000 a month. I thought the premise of this retarded website is AMWAY doesn’t work or it’s “failed”.

    Yeah. I’d sure love tob

  238. July 25, 2018 10:59 am

    “”I said $90,000 a month (that isn’t millions)””

    You said he made that as an EDC. Then you said he probably makes 4-5 times that now.

  239. July 25, 2018 11:01 am

    “””$40,000 a month. I thought the premise of this retarded website is AMWAY doesn’t work or it’s “failed”.”””

    Powerball lottery winners get more than that. That doesn’t mean powerball is a good idea for the majority who play.

  240. July 25, 2018 5:36 pm

    Dude that’s idiotic. You might as well compare the offs of making a million in the NBA or the NFL. 🙄

  241. July 26, 2018 10:01 am

    The odds of making a million in the NFL or NBA are far greater than your odds of making it big in Amway.

  242. July 27, 2018 12:52 pm

    Quote: I recently lost my fiancé to Worldwide/Amway. We had spent the last six years working him out of millions of dollars of debt after he got mixed up with a couple who ‘taught’ him how to invest other-people’s-money in real estate. Huge fail… and, that couple lost everything, as well.

    We were JUST about finsihing up with that financial mess, when the SAME couple reappeared and convinced him that Amway was the next way to get-rich-quick. They tired pulling me in, as well. However, my spidy senses were on high alert and I researched. I chose not to join. In the meantime my fiancé signed up his own daughter to his down-line, talked her out of her college courses, and then when HER long term life-partner chose not to join, her own father and his up-line began the process of breaking that relationship up and matching her with another Amway recruit.

    Well, I should have seen what was about to happen next, however I honestly didn’t see it coming. My fiancé’s up-line matched him with another recruit ‘who was better suited for his business needs’. WHAT? They promoted the emotional and sexual affair behind my back as a ‘better business match’. The woman knew about ME; I did not know about her. Let’s not even get into possible STD’s and moral issues, right? When I did finally find out, my fiancé told me, “don’t take it personal, it was a business decision.”

    Amway Worldwide Dream Builders ties people together in an emotional lifeboat. I had attended (and, paid for) several of their events during the initial introduction to ‘the business’. The cult-like actions of these events is so obvious, yet the glam of riches is hypnotic.
    They preached, and I mean preached, that only the strong stay and to let the weak fall away. I firmly believe that the weak are the ones that stay, the strong people leave. It takes a very strong person to break away after the financial and emotional commitment has been put in place. BE STRONG!

    The happy ending to this story is that I am no longer tied to a weak man with a new growing debt. I’m single and still have my own personal wealth still mostly intact.”””

    Comment from July 27, 2018

  243. July 28, 2018 7:35 am

    Really??
    Do you know the number of high schol athletes who wanna be NBA stars?

  244. July 28, 2018 8:58 am

    Wow. Such rambling nonsense. Drama novel about some b### who wouldn’t support her man in his pursuing wealth & financial security. Glad that wasn’t me. I’d a dumped her for sure. Nobody takes the time to read her novel (& nobody CARES)

  245. July 28, 2018 9:19 am

    FYI there are 3500 college players who graduate or declare for the draft before they graduate. Know how many are drafted in the entire NFL? 254. That means there’s only a 7% chance of getting drafted
    Then there’s several walk ons who are undrafted who show up to training camp. Then you have OTA, mono camp, training camp, and preseason in which 90 or so men all hope to make the roster (of which there are really less than 50 possible openings in a maximum 53 man roster (a half a dozen maybe ten or so of which are already taken by the superstars like Tom Brady or Beckam or Gronk.
    So it’s about a 3% chance of even MAKING a roster, and that doesn’t guarantee the big money but only minimum scale if you’re on the practice squad.
    Then there’s the chance of getting injured ending a season (or a carreer)
    Average length of an NFL carreer? Less than 7 years.
    And how much money do you make after you leave, quit, get cut, or injured out of the NFL?
    Zero (except maybe some pension depending on how long you played & what money you made. )

    Tracey Eaton had to play a preseason game with a flu & high fever, just to prove himself make the team. At Arizona.

    Know what happened after he left the NFL with $300,000 on the bank & had to try & make it as a stock broker?

    He ended up $400,000 in debt & had to sell his house!
    Thank God Wolgamott came along & he asked Wolgamott how he managed to sleep in every day & be rich.
    Now they are free as diamonds & have a beautiful high rise condo in Seattle and paid Cash for a second home on the river.

    Eaton makes more money than he ever made in the NFL & is not subject to injuries, age, or roster cuts

    Yeah we know all about the odds.
    (Then there’s also Superbowl champion Tim Foley in Miami, Hal Greer from the NBA and numerous other world class championship athletes who make their living from amway or endorse the nutrilite Brand. (see Kurt Warner- another walk on who had what it takes in character & went from walk on back up quarterback to Superbowl champion. Yeah. He believes in nutrilite & amway)

    Not everybody who plays the game is a winner or a champion. Only those who got what it takes (which obviously you didn’t!)

  246. July 28, 2018 9:38 am

    https://the-lowest-paid-athletes-in-all-of-professional-sports-20141125/

    Now here’s the reality for most guts going into pro sports. Arena football players have only $830 per game & have other jobs to supplement their income. Baseball? Minor leagers make less than most working folks. If you’re proven Worthy then you get called up to the majors. But most don’t make it.

  247. July 30, 2018 10:00 am

    7% is a whole lot more success than Amway IBOs. A platinum is allegedly where you start to break even more make a small profit, depending on your commitment to the system. A platinum is already in the top fraction of 1% of IBOs. What serious business owner prospect would want to join and opportunity where the likelihood of success is so low?

    Arena football players know the deal before they sign up. They are signing up because someone told them about residual income for life if they play arena football.

  248. July 30, 2018 10:02 am

    Again, how do you know what Tracy Eaton makes? Did you show you his financials? You have no idea but you keep making those kinds of claims. All you are saying is that he lacks integrity and is able to sell people on lies to make his living. 2-5 years, walking the beaches is a lie. One that has serious consequences for many who get involved.

  249. July 30, 2018 10:31 am

    woww. Once again you demonstrated a difficulty understanding (or paying attention to) what people actually say.

    If 7 % get drafted that doesn’t necessarily mean they will make the roster by end of preseason and if they do make the roster half of them will NEVER make a million a year

    Many have ENDED up broke after being retired (average carreer is less than 7 years and they don’t pay you or even guarantee your salary if you’re not playing. Many get injured and most contracts have team friendly incentives that only pay based on how many snaps you play in the year.)

    Tracey Eaton lasted a handful of years after busting his @$$ to make the team during preseason only to end up broke & having to sell his house after retirement. None of hos NFL income was secure or willable to his children
    Now he makes more than he did in the NFL and it’s all willable to his children and most of it is passive ongoing income streams.
    He paid Cash for hos second home. (did you? 🤔)

  250. July 30, 2018 11:09 am

    I understand completely. But anyone who gets drafted receives at least a signing bonus of about $100k or more, even if they fail to make the team.

    Most Amway IBOs make nothing and if they attend functions, almost all of them LOSE MONEY.

    Tracy Eaton can tell you he paid cash for his home. I paid cash for my home. See how that works? Talk is cheap. Greg Duncan also said she paid cash for his homes. Then we see foreclosures. Guess what? Homes that are paid for can’t get foreclosed.

    “None of his NFL income was secure or will-able to his chidlren” Total bullshit. All of his guaranteed income could have been secured and will-able to his children.

  251. July 30, 2018 11:12 am

    You know why Amway diamonds might quit or resign but they never “walk away? They have to keep working the business. Most Amway IBOs do little or nothing and quit. If you stop building your Amway business, people will continue to do little or nothing and quit. You cannot build a sustainable income where the attrition rate is so high unless you are constantly working it. The never quit that upline teaches applies to the upline as well. If they quit, their business will fall apart faster than a cheap Amway suit.

  252. July 30, 2018 11:38 am

    Ok so how many o line men get paid after they’re dead?

  253. July 30, 2018 12:04 pm

    It depends on what they set up. What do Amway people get when they’re dead?

    I noticed you avoided all my other points and put up a straw man argument.

  254. July 31, 2018 11:03 am

    Name one example of an NFL contract which says they continue to get their bloated salary after they’re no longer able to play?

    No such thing! It’s all based 100% on their own ability.

    Amway isn’t based on ability. It’s based off an asset which continues to generate revenue and therefore earnings for you or your beneficiaries

    Ever hear of an “integrated Diamond”?

    (Oh. I’m sorry. So now Georgia Lee no longer gets any income since Ron died? 🤔)
    Better tell Jim to go get a job ha.

  255. July 31, 2018 11:06 am

    Uhm no more job since 23? Sounds great to me.
    4 months on Hawaii with no meetings? Can’t do that on a job now can you.

  256. July 31, 2018 1:15 pm

    So why don”t diamonds walk away and retire? Because their business will crumble apart once they stop working. In Amway, you need the ability to recruit and lie to recruits so they will sign up and buy Amway stuff and tools and functions.

    I don’t know. Georgia Lee didn’t show me (or you) her financials so I don’t (and you don’t) know what or if she’s still making money from Amway.

    You do know that Amway diamonds invest in other things besides Amway right?

  257. July 31, 2018 1:16 pm

    If NFL players are wise, they use their earnings to invest in ways to generate income when their playing days are over, like the rest of us.

  258. July 31, 2018 1:17 pm

    No job since 23? Great, but I can’t make my living by deceiving people and selling false hopes and dreams.

  259. July 31, 2018 3:15 pm

    I’ve never been lied to by anyone in the Amway company or WWDb. You on the other hand lie all the time & make up stuff to support your excuses why you quit. LOSERS do that & we don’t do that in our family.

  260. July 31, 2018 3:55 pm

    What have I lied about? I share my personal experience. Whether you like it or not is another story but these are not lies.

    You make up all kinds of stuff. You quote income from people you don’t know. You pretend to know how much income and expenses the diamonds have. The truth is you don’t know.

    You bought into the lie that buying from yourself can turn into profits.

    You still haven’t answered why not a single diamond walked away to enjoy residual income. Instead, they are on the job until they pass away. That’s not freedom.

  261. July 31, 2018 3:57 pm

    I don’t have excuses about why I quit. I did what the WWDB leaders advised me to do. After doing that, the profit they said would be there wasn’t there. I made a business decision to quit. There were other factors but that’s another story.

  262. July 31, 2018 4:26 pm

    Howie Danzik paid off his $100,000 student loans on 3 years and sold his physical therapy office. Hasn’t renewed hos license (that was 20 YEARS ago at 32 years old (were you able to do that at 32?)

    Regards to his were organization he spends 4 months away from his main land business enjoying their second home on Hawaii. 4 MOS. No meetings no suits. Owns 3 homes and a private plane. (Did you do that at 40 something?)

    Did I mention David Duncan? In a coma for several months. The checks kept coming!
    Bob & Shelley Kummer gave NEVER fallen out of qualifications (they’re Diamonds sponsored by Dave & Darlene). After he died I believe Darlene still gets paid. So does Bea Taba.

    Dave Severn? Hasn’t been active for years. (Did I tell you his downline Greg Duncan is a legacy diamond? Greg & Laurie been Diamond for over 30 years. I don’t think Dave savern has missed a single check yet.

    Then there’s the felbers. (Terry and Linda retired to an island in Florida. They’re no longer active. Jaime felber does just FINE as an integrated Diamond. )

    You need to quit spouting off about things which you’ve never done.

    Talk to me about how platimum or diamonds works after you’ve done it!

  263. July 31, 2018 5:12 pm

    So what did I lie about? *crickets*

    See, you’re just parroting or making up stuff. How would you know if Howie paid back his student loans in 3 years? Did you see the letter showing a zero balance?

    How do you know David Duncan had checks coming in while in a coma?

    You don’t think Dave Severn has missed a check in years – but you don’t know. The Felbers are not active – so how would you know if they are doing just fine? Do they send you email?

  264. July 31, 2018 5:16 pm

    Quote Malachy Smith: “”You need to quit spouting off about things which you’ve never done.

    Talk to me about how platimum or diamonds works after you’ve done it!””

    Maybe you should follow your own advice. You are not a diamond or a platinum. As for spouting off about things, I went 4000 pv which I believe is a level higher than you have achieved so maybe you need to re-think your strategy here.

    And for the record, I don’t need to be a diamond to know about the Amway business and how some of their teachings work.

    I’ve never jumped off a tall building without a parachute but I guarantee you that I know what the outcome of such a feat would be without having done it.

  265. July 31, 2018 6:09 pm

    I do not claim to be an expert, spouting off made up statistics & probabilities. You spout off Garbage & lies which have been proven wrong.

    Keep barking dawg. The caravan keeps moving on.

  266. July 31, 2018 6:10 pm

    Many have successfully jumped off cliffs without a parachute.

  267. July 31, 2018 8:08 pm

    If you “know how their teachings work” why haven’t you DONE IT?

  268. August 1, 2018 8:49 am

    Again, you say I lied but you don’t identify what supposedly lied about.

    You on the other hand, have made quiet extraordinary assertions without providing any substantiation.

    “Many have jumped off cliffs without a parachute.” Strawman. Have those same people jump off a building onto cement. The result is quite predictable.

    “”If you “know how their teachings work” why haven’t you DONE IT?””

    I did their teachings to 4000 PV and I made no net profit despite spending a lot of time and money doing it. Their teaching was suspect and had many contradictory details such as get out of debt but no problem going into debt for family reunion tickets. Or family comes first unless there’s a function, then it becomes “attend all”.

  269. August 1, 2018 9:10 am

    You said you did everything they taught you. (No you didn’t because if you DID you’d be like Eaton & Harimoto. You’d be successful instead of blaming and complaining. LOSERS do that)

  270. August 1, 2018 9:33 am

    I achieved the parameters they advised on. The eagle program. At that level my net profit after expenses was nearly 0. There was no good reason to continue to spend time and money in a business that was not profitable.

  271. August 1, 2018 9:35 am

    So what did I lie about?

  272. August 1, 2018 9:36 am

    Wow. Imagine if Jeff bezos had thought that way.

    And I wonder about Tesla and Netflix. Should they pull the plug?

  273. August 1, 2018 9:38 am

    You accused me of lying but you cannot identify anything that I lied about. I guess you made that up like all those stories you’ve been telling here.

  274. August 1, 2018 9:45 am

    You claimed you went eagle 4000 but we’re not profitable. Either you’re lying or you’re not telling the whole Truth. It is mathematically impossible to make less than $1000 a month as a 4000 with eagles parameters.

  275. August 1, 2018 10:02 am

    No lies. I said I made no net profit. My bonus was in the $1000 range. The upline platinum said it was wise to reinvest the entire thing into tools and functions. I questioned this practice and was told that Greg Duncan is a multi millionaire and believes this is the way to build your business right.

    So I did as I was advised. Yes, I could have not followed his advice. But not following a double diamond’s advice didn’t seem like the wise thing to do at the time.

  276. August 1, 2018 10:08 am

    Man. You’re insecure aren’t you.
    FIRST of all I already pointed out how it’s impossible to make less than $1000-1500 a month with a balance of 6 bonus checks at 4000. Ron Puryear said all you need is $3000-4000 a year (that’s $250-$450 a month if you’re math challenged). All I ever heard was maybe one extra tape a week (that’s $20-30 a month).

    Maybe you had one big leg & 5 small legs.

    Second tou SAID you did “all that they taught”. (No you didn’t. I’ve already seen holes in your knowledge & understanding of this business. You’re like the kid who flunks math & then blames the teacher. 🙄).

    How come Walgsmott and Harimoto and eation and Kummer were successful (& had the same system you did? Matt NEVER fell out of platinum & diamond qualifications. His dad & mom are founder’s rubies making over $150,000 a year (actually they’re saphires now since they have 2 platinum legs.)
    Same wwdb system you had access to.

  277. August 1, 2018 10:20 am

    It seems you can’t think for yourself (& when you DID & made a business decision to cut it loose now you’re on here spewing hate & demonstrating issues. Blame blame blame. .
    Let me clue you in:

    It’s an INDEPENDENT BUSINESS. YOU are in charge of your business. NOT your upline.

  278. August 1, 2018 11:26 am

    You see holes in my knowledge? So how did I reach 4000 pv and eagle parameters?

  279. August 1, 2018 11:26 am

    Right, Amway strategy. Blame the victim.

  280. August 1, 2018 11:31 am

    How did you make LESS than $1500 with 12 bonus checks supposedly?. Even with 6 checks the model shows $1300-1500 income. $2300 with 12 checks.
    Something must be wrong with the way you did it.

  281. August 1, 2018 12:52 pm

    I was in the business 22 years ago. Certain things may have been different, I had to cut my own bonus checks and we had to call for our products and pick up the stuff at the platinum’s house. My gross was over $1000 but after I cut my downline checks I had about $1000 left over. It was that money that upline wanted spent on tools and functions.

  282. August 6, 2018 3:37 pm

    Joe not so cool you can’t even get your FACTS straight (or your figures) maybe you should just shut up (*& quit LYING)..

    LIE #1. “average emerald income is $75,000.”. Nope. That’s the minimum or low end. Range is from $75,000-300,000. That purs the “average” at $150,000. Heck I know rubies who make more than that.

    Lie#2. The figures you’ve just quoted (off by HUNDREDS of Millions)

    Corrected figures: 2016: 8.8 billions
    2017: 8.6 billions.

    Yeah I wouldn’t want some information on a business opportunity from an out dated has 🐝 washed up failure/ quitter.
    I’ll get it from one of the winners who is currently doing it and winning!

  283. August 7, 2018 10:20 am

    Duncan doesn’t fly “first class”. He owns a jet. (& For the big trips amway flies him on THEIR private customized jumbo jet and they just took them on THEIR private yacht to Greece and Italy. You don’t..do..those trips ..do you??? 🤔😏)

  284. August 7, 2018 10:24 am

    Google isn’t the Bible (& not everything is found in the Bible either.)
    Google nerd. Some things are revealed for members or IBOs only. The executive said it (I was in the room) and Greg Duncan repeated it (just went out on standing order last week).

    So if you haven’t heard it (or can’t verify it) it must NOT be true.
    (THIS from the same guy who lies and bends publicly revealed and published stats to fit his Ill purpose.)

    SMH 🙄

  285. August 7, 2018 10:25 am

    YOU don’t do those trips do you? 🙂

  286. August 7, 2018 10:27 am

    No lies, last time I had looked at those average incomes, the emerald income was less than $100k. And the $300k range is likely the most that an emerald had made. Probably a Q12 with 5 platinum legs. But most emeralds are not Q12 and the same goes for diamonds.

  287. August 7, 2018 10:29 am

    Difference between you and me? I will.
    Hey listen this is very (extremely) entertaining laughing at all the (stupid) things you say and your empty excuses & come backs
    But I got an adversing business to build.
    Gotta go!

  288. August 7, 2018 10:33 am

    “I will”. I said that and I followed through and did it. The income that upline assured me of wasn’t there.

    So far you’ve done more talking than doing.

  289. August 7, 2018 10:37 am

    Dude, all you’ve done is brag about how much money Matt or some other diamond has made. I don’t doubt that they are successful to some degree and might make good money from Amway and the tool income.

    My point is that there is no trail of success that can be attributed directly to him. Where are all the downline success? Probably tens of thousands of downline has gone through Matt’s business over the years. But you can name a handful of allegedly successful downline. What about the rest? The results are like a lottery. A few winners and multitudes of losers.

  290. August 7, 2018 10:43 am

    Bullshit. You got a check for $1000 at 4000 (extremely weak for a 4000. The money I saw was at 7500 and above. $2000-3000 a month motivated me.)
    Diamond income DOESN’T come from weak 4000 effort.

  291. August 7, 2018 10:55 am

    You’re the only LOSER I’ve ever heard from in amway. Talk to the ✋

  292. August 7, 2018 11:13 am

    Matt never quit (even he almost got divorced his family supported him to keep going) Ken never quit, and never missed achievers, Teresa never quit, made over $300,000 as a single diamond. Kenji and Mildred never quit (founder’s rubies made over $150,000 a year).
    Pretty sure Mike and Michi never missed a 4 % check off Matt’s platimum business (I wonder what the 4% is on a EDC leg with diamonds and emeralds downline ?)

    Mandy Yamamoto didn’t quit (she just went Diamond. In Hawaii. Using the same system and CDs and funcions you had access to.)

  293. August 7, 2018 11:17 am

    Dude you’re making up statistics and your own facts again are you?

    Why don’t you tell us what it’s like & how a diamond business works since you’ve built so many.

  294. August 7, 2018 11:31 am

    No I can’t name EVERY last platimum or the thousands of people in his organization who may have paid off student loans & credit cards.

    Can you tell me THIS?.
    WHY was he successful (& not you?). He skipped plate lunches at college to pay $5 for tapes. He sold his TV to go to FED.
    Why was he successful and not you? Pretty sure he had the same products. Same tapes. Same funcions (but he did not stop at a FAILED 40000. He was making $7500 as a 22 years old Ruby.
    Quit his job at 23. (did you?). bought his FIRST house at kahala at 26 (did you?).
    Howcome he was successful and not you?

  295. August 7, 2018 11:34 am

    You’re the only LOSER I ever met from Amway. (sure glad I wasn’t in your business & I would NEVER sponsor you or anyone who thinks like you do.)

    Takes a lot for me to be negative. You’re poison, toxic radio actively negative. Thanks God you QUIT.

  296. August 7, 2018 11:52 am

    “””Can you tell me THIS?.
    WHY was he successful (& not you?). He skipped plate lunches at college to pay $5 for tapes. He sold his TV to go to FED.”””

    Because he’s a good liar and charlatan? Snake oil salesman? Selling false hopes and dreams to people.

  297. August 7, 2018 11:54 am

    “””You’re the only LOSER I ever met from Amway. (sure glad I wasn’t in your business & I would NEVER sponsor you or anyone who thinks like you do.)

    Takes a lot for me to be negative. You’re poison, toxic radio actively negative. Thanks God you QUIT.”””

    Yeah, calling people losers is a good way to prop up your “people” business.

  298. August 7, 2018 11:57 am

    “””Howcome he was successful and not you?”””

    Define successful.

    I am financially free and debt free. Isn’t that successful to most people?

  299. August 7, 2018 12:00 pm

    No that would be you! You’ve ALREADY been documented here misrepresenting FACTS & figures multiple times.

    Dude you have no credibility. ZERO integrity.

  300. August 7, 2018 12:02 pm

    I don’t want you or any of your loser/ quitter friends on my “people business”.

  301. August 7, 2018 12:08 pm

    Yes it is. Congratulations. Now enjoy your success and quit COMPLAINING like a b####!

  302. August 7, 2018 12:33 pm

    You know exactly what I meant (you slithering snake oil salesmen). How come Matt (& Sandee who went 4000 before meet Matt) and all his family members and Scott and Mandy (& all their respective dozens of platimum IBOs) were successful in Amway business but not you? 🤔. Howcome Matt didn’t blame the $5 tapes or “3 trips to the mainland” for functions as an excuse to fail?

  303. August 7, 2018 12:48 pm

    Dude, you keep harping on how Matt is successful so why wasn’t I? I can so say and so won the lottery so why didn’t you? Bill Gates makes Matt look like a welfare case so why isn’t Matt building a software company. You sound like a brainwashed parrot who just repeats what you hear on an audio or at a function.

  304. August 7, 2018 12:48 pm

    “”Yes it is. Congratulations. Now enjoy your success and quit COMPLAINING like a b####!””

    My success doesn’t come from exploiting others.

  305. August 7, 2018 12:52 pm

    How do I know that?

  306. August 7, 2018 12:57 pm

    Triggered much??! Sensitive question now isn’t it. Matt never compared himself to Bill Gates but while you’re on Bill Gates (what a fine example of morals and exploitation. Population control. Sterilizing minorities with “vaccines”. Ripping off the original Xerox windows platform. Apple did it FIRST but he almost put then out of business with his inferior product. )

    You came on here knocking what Matt, his family (and I ) chose to do to be significant and leave a legacy for next generation families. Theron Nelson’s grand children are currently building the business.

    What have you done to help anybody else?

  307. August 7, 2018 2:32 pm

    “”How do I know that?””

    Because I told you. That seems to be enough for you to believe that diamonds make more money than Bill Gates.

  308. August 7, 2018 2:42 pm

    “””You came on here knocking what Matt, his family (and I ) chose to do to be significant and leave a legacy for next generation families. Theron Nelson’s grand children are currently building the business.

    What have you done to help anybody else?”””‘

    What legacy? Exploiting downline for profit? How come Greg Duncan had no charitable contributions on his tax returns?

    What have I done to help anybody else? I donate cash every month to organizations that help feed and educate kids in poverty stricken countries.

    I also (along with a group of friends) help donate time and efforts to do things for widows
    such as cleaning their yards and making repairs on certain household things like fixing fences, etc.

    I also volunteer to mentor a troubled young child at a school near my home. One hour per week that helps boost self confidence and helps them to know that they have support.

    What do your diamonds do? Vacation and relax while occasionally attending functions to rake in honorariums?

  309. August 7, 2018 2:46 pm

    Wh diamonds make more money than Bill Gates?
    No. I said they make more money than YOU.
    (SO now you’re a delusional Bill Gates millionaire is that it?).

    See? There you go! Lying again!!

  310. August 7, 2018 4:47 pm

    I was speaking metaphorically. You act as if these buys are starting barbecues with 100 dollar bills when the fact of the matter is you don’t know how much these guys make. You also do not know what business expenses they have so you don’t know what their income is.

  311. August 7, 2018 9:11 pm

    Neither do you ha you’ve never 🐝 a platinum !(so how would you know. ). You’ve never been a Ruby or an emerald or a diamond so how would you know?
    Platinums do not pay for functions. Membership is $49.95 for unlimited + $25 for streaming. Books are wholesale for members. Kate is $39.95. Any travel expenses are the same as for any other business (& it’s all a write off from the top of their income anyway. (can you do that? Write of your “,first class trip to New Zealand”? Nope. But I can. I’m going to Los Angeles this weekend. Write off! I spent $175 a month for my phone and internet. Write off! )

  312. August 8, 2018 7:41 am

    Well we know Greg Duncan made $40,000 per month (from Amway not from tools) which is more than you ever made so shut up.

  313. August 8, 2018 12:12 pm

    You’ve never been platinum or made $40,000 per month so by your own logic, YOU should shut up.

  314. August 8, 2018 12:44 pm

    don’t talk sh## or make up statistics on how I think it works. I know people who made it work. (4 out of 6 people I’ve known personally have made well over $100,000 per year (* and HELPED others to do so)
    Meanwhile 2 out of 3 job people can’t retire or retire broke. Over 80% odds most people spend THEIR whole life in a job only to get laid off, fired, or retired broke.

  315. August 8, 2018 12:51 pm

    I haven’t retired bankrupt either but that doesn’t mean I don’t know about it.

    I’ll take diamond instead thanks.

    You have nothing of value. NOTHING meaningful to add to the conversation or a solution or better alternative.

    All you got is made up ridiculous stats, incorrect FACTS, lies and stupid irrelevant inaccurate comparisons (& and obvious ignorance of how amway actually works!)

  316. August 8, 2018 10:27 pm

    All you have are anecdotal stories of success. None of which can be supported with facts or even with numbers supplied by Amway.

    You still don’t get it. Even if you know people making 100k in Amway, all that means is their downline are losing money. For every pyramid built in Egypt, there were thousands of slaves (downline) building that pyramid. Just because you might know the pharoahs doesn’t mean there aren’t hundreds or thousands of people losing money for each diamond.

    If someone loses money or goes into debt because of Amway, then Amway is contributing to those people going broke in retirement.

    You talk about the stats and things I provided. They can be substantiated with some research and some numbers provided by Amway. Your stories of a diamond making millions cannot be proven and it doesn’t align with the numbers provided by Amway in their disclosures.

  317. August 9, 2018 6:43 am

    Dude that’s completely stupid
    “,Anecdotal”? Don’t know what you mean by that. I’ve provided real case examples of highly successful people who made more money in their amway business than our ever made in your job.
    As for the pyramids of Egypt. There is no comparison (*except for maybe a job in a corporation where the CEO and a very few at the top get rich and the employees make slave wages)

    As for debt that is totally BS. Nobody (with half a brain) has ever “gone into debt” to build an amway network. It’s not necessary as the only cost yo start is around $200 and you’ll make several times that back just in savings on a year by buying wholesale.
    Now IF you get ten customers (like you’re supposed to – see step 3 in CORE) THen any tapes or CDs or tools you invest in come out of your FIRST profits (that’s exactly what Ron Puryear did and what he taught. )

    Wwdb has always taught that customers are part of the equation.

  318. August 9, 2018 6:47 am

    I NEVER talked about “diamonds making llmillions”. I said there are some who make around a million a year. And Duncan is now a crown ambassador and yes he did say recently on record he’s getting MILLIONS (that is also in the BROCHURE that the top Diamonds made close to $2,000,000 a year).

    Your stars are BS and incorrect and theories which are insubstatiated

    Never in all my time I’ve known about this amway business have I ever met or talked to anyone who “lost money”. That’s bullshit.

  319. August 9, 2018 8:04 am

    What’s hard for you to understand is that CUSTOMERS is step 3 on core and a requirement by the corporation (or you don’t get a PV check) Ron Puryear taught that if you have ten customers and you isolate the retail profits and your savings between retail and wholesale (yes, WWDB had ALWAYS taught to “pay yourself retail” (I guess you MISSED or forgot that part) then that more than pays for being core for a year, even at 1000pv.

    And, yes, we are Amways wholesale customers just as my Toyota dealership I worked for is Toyota’s wholesale customer. There are dealers every single day that lose money on some car deals and there are dealers all over the country that lose money EVERY month when their cost of advertising, payroll, maintenance, insurance, inventory, and rent (rent here on Stevens Creek Blvd is over $50,000 a month) is greater than the amount of money they make on selling cars. Some even go bankrupt. That’s Toyota’s fault??

  320. August 9, 2018 10:44 am

    But that’s just it. It’s an anecdotal story because you claim they made more in Amway than I ever made in my job, First of all, you don’t know whether I had a job or a business or how much I made. That’s your first error to assume that. You also haven’t proven a thing about how much your alleged diamonds made from Amway.

    I can wager you any amount you want that people have gone into debt building an Amway network. Some people got into massive debt following WWDB advice. Someone who hasn’t sponsored someone and only generates 100 PV cab be in debt from attending their first function. Heck, they can be in debt just paying the monthly WWSB premier club fees.
    Are you really unable to see this?

  321. August 9, 2018 10:47 am

    You keep talking about customers as if you’re running a WalMart. WalMart has customers because they sell cheap products. Amway pays something like 32% in bonuses, therefore, Amway charges one average, 32% more than other retailers because retailers like WalMart doesn’t pay bonuses to a “middleman”. So if you really have customers, you are a rare IBO. Most others have sympathetic family and friends buying most of their stuff, if any.

  322. August 9, 2018 10:54 am

    Analysis on how people go broke in Amway:

    https://mk3y.com/what-is-mlm/

  323. August 9, 2018 11:11 am

    Let’s see I save over $60 per month buying wholesale and premier membership is $49.95. How the fk does one “go into debt” paying wwdb membership??

    See? More stupid LIES and exxagerated far out claims. Nobody believes you. You’re so desperately trying to make your claim you gotta make up lies!

  324. August 9, 2018 11:14 am

    No I don’t see how anyone can “go into debt” paying a $49.95 membership. Need a better job (or maybe some c c customers in your amway business) if ya can’t afford $49.95 a month. Shoot I spend more than that on just one date sometimes.

  325. August 9, 2018 11:20 am

    10 customers rule. It’s always been there. I don’t need HUNDREDS of customers a day or dozens per month like in my advertising business. Just 50 PV that’s the rules. I can do 50 PV with just 3 customers.

    (* And I already proved my toothpaste is less expensive than Safeway even at retail (* and much better quality. I’ve had CUSTOMERS referred to me because they don’t like other brands.)

    7/11 is more expensive than Safeway BTW you don’t see them going out of business do you?

  326. August 9, 2018 11:52 am

    How do you save $60 a month when you buy products that cost 30% more than retailers?

    And even if you did save $60 a month, premiere membership isn’t the only business expense. You also have books, KATE, standing orders, functions, etc.

  327. August 9, 2018 11:53 am

    “””7/11 is more expensive than Safeway BTW you don’t see them going out of business do you?”””

    But 7-11 and Safeway don’t rely on their employees to make up the majority of their sales either.

  328. August 9, 2018 11:54 am

    You didn’t prove anything about your toothpaste. I can find plenty that are cheaper than glister.

  329. August 9, 2018 12:25 pm

    It doesn’t cost 30% more that’s a lie!
    I ALREADY showed you (guess you got short term memory problems. . I got a prudct can help you with that ) Colgate at Safeway is 5.00. For only 6 oz. Glister retails on the site for $4.50 for 6.75 oz (and Glister lasts longer because you use half as much). My little $5 mouthwash is concentrated. I squirt 5 shots and add water it lasts 3 mos vs the same price for a big bottle of scope that barely lasts a month.

    I pay the wholesale price at it shows right on my invoice I saved $60 for $200+ order. Take another 25% off at platimum and nothing can beat it in quality or price.

    I ALREADY showed you if I spend $8 a day on snacks nutrition & drinks and it’s $240 a month. Duplicate myself by switching 4 clients and I make $360. No brainier. Spend $300 at Safeway or make $360 from Amway. I’ve had someone registered themselves as an IBO just based on that when they saw the webtour online.

  330. August 9, 2018 12:29 pm

    Then go be a millionaire or pay off your credit cards by buying cheaper 🙄🙃🤪.
    I can always find stuff cheaper than Safeway or 7/11 too (but they’re still in business everywhere Find 7/11 in foreign countries like the Philippines). They’re more expensive than Safeway so why are they STILL in business??

  331. August 9, 2018 12:41 pm

    I can find cars that are cheaper than Toyota and others more expensive. So what’s your point? If all customers ALWAYS went for the cheapest there would be no Mercedes or Lexus.

  332. August 9, 2018 12:46 pm

    Yeah, you went to Safeway online and chose the most expensive toothpaste they had and said that was proof that Amway was cheaper. One that same website, I found that most safeway brands were cheaper than glister.

    Don’t you get it? If Amway pay out “generous” bonuses that make people “rich”, the bonuses are included in the price of the products. Because WalMart doesn’t pay bonuses, their prices can be rock bottom. That just isn’t true with Amway.

  333. August 9, 2018 12:47 pm

    7-11 might charge more but they remain a viable business because they are a convenience store. They are often open 24-7 and you can go in and buy snacks, meals or a 6 pack of beer and be in and out of there in a few minutes.

    Amway charges more but you have to wait for shipping. Why pay more and wait?

  334. August 9, 2018 12:51 pm

    Yes, a Mercedes or Lexus is a luxury vehicle and costs more than other brands. But these are cars. Don’t you get it? Nobody cares if you are buying high priced soap or toothpaste. People want cheap household products.

    And frankly, with Amway, you are paying “Mercedes” prices for your soap but in reality, your products are like a Ford.

    High prices and generic quality is why Amway has 8.6 billion in sales with 3 million worldwide IBOs and WalMart has more than 500 billion in sales with 2 million employees. I’d say WalMart is more efficient

  335. August 9, 2018 12:52 pm

    And, GENIUS, where do you think Safeway gets the money for those expensive full page newspaper ads and radio and TV ads? (When’s the last time you heard a radio ad on your speakers for amway? ).

    I can ALWAYS get cheaper produce at foodmaxx (so WHY did I just buy fruits and vegetables from Safeway yesterday??)
    WHY is Safeway still having customers lined up 8-10 deep when foodmaxx is cheaper?
    WHY do people buy a Toyota when they could save thousands on a Chevrolet or Hyundai?

  336. August 9, 2018 12:57 pm

    Yes Walmart makes billions for THEIR owners while paying crap slave wages to employee and buying crap made in slavery factory overseas. Known fact. Nobody ever paid off college loans or bought a new house working (or shopping) at Walmart.

    Mic drop.

  337. August 9, 2018 1:26 pm

    “””Yes Walmart makes billions for THEIR owners while paying crap slave wages to employee and buying crap made in slavery factory overseas.”””

    Same as Amway. Except Amway doesn’t even pay minimum wage. The average “active” IBO made something like $200 a month. WalMart pays more.

  338. August 9, 2018 1:28 pm

    The “average” active IBO spends less than 5 hours a month on their business. That’s $40 an hour.

  339. August 9, 2018 1:29 pm

    Hey genius, Amway pays for advertising too. “Now you know” is Amway’s slogan.

    Why do people buy a Toyota when they could save thousands on a Chevrolet or Hyundai?
    What do cars have to do with household products?

    People buy from WalMart because it’s cheap and good quality. You buy Amway products because you sell the stuff. Were you religiously buying Amway stuff when you weren’t in Amway?

  340. August 9, 2018 1:32 pm

    Amway’s average doesn’t include all IBOs.

    There you go making up stuff again. How would you know how many hours are spent by active IBOs working the business? Diamonds say 10-12 or 10-15 hours a week, Or 40 to 60 hours a month. That makes it some cents up to one dollar per hour.

    And you bellyache because WalMart pays $8 an hour?

  341. August 9, 2018 1:37 pm

    “active” includes those who “attempted to make a retail sale” or “, attended a meeting”.
    The average ibo shows the plan maybe once a week and maybe gets 1-2 customers a month.

    Now how many Walmart slaves make $150,000 a year working 20 hour a week?

  342. August 9, 2018 1:52 pm

    Yeah. $8 a hour = about $2200 a month before taxes (average 2 br around here is MORE than that ). That’s A FULL TIME JOB (if they let you work more than 30 hours a week.
    Last I checked nobody in the amway business making “$200 a month” works full time. 🙄

  343. August 9, 2018 1:59 pm

    If I take 10 orders from retail customers and deliver them myself (which we no longer have to) it takes MAYBE an hour each that’s 10 hours and I make over $360. How much is that “per hour” genius??

  344. August 9, 2018 2:03 pm

    More people associated with WalMart make $120,000 than people associated with Amway.

  345. August 9, 2018 2:04 pm

    You take 10 orders and make $360, That sounds like like BS to me.

  346. August 9, 2018 2:06 pm

    “”Last I checked nobody in the amway business making “$200 a month” works full time””

    That’s because you’re checking is limited to assumptions you’ve made about the business.
    If you actually do all the “core” steps, you are consuming a lot of time.

  347. August 9, 2018 2:11 pm

    If you really have 10 customers that order enough stuff to make you $300+ profit per month, congratulations. You are the only one I’ve ever heard of who did it. when I used to encounter IBOs on facebook, so many were desperately trying to recruit or sell Amway stuff. They were so desperate, they offered to sell it at their cost so they can get the PV. I haven’t checked recently, but I used to see IBOs selling Amway stuff on ebay and Craig’s list at cost or below as well.

    Now why is that?

  348. August 9, 2018 2:14 pm

    Ok Mr stats. Show us the Numbers. How many employees of Walmart working less than 30 hours a week made $130,000?

  349. August 9, 2018 2:27 pm

    Well that’s THEIR problem. Trying to sell or recruit. I don’t do THAT. I make people aware of what’s available. Some ask me to tell them or sit down for a meeting. Others ask me to order products for them.
    If I order the product for then it takes about 5 minutes. If they want to get it from me (instead of delivery by amway via USPS or UPS) that takes all of ohhh ten minutes?
    So. Wow. I’m so exhausted after taking 15 minutes to make $5 or $10. (How much is THAT per hour? ).

    If I show 100 plans 1-2 hours each and sponsor 20 and go platimum and make $50,000 how much is THAT per hour??

  350. August 9, 2018 3:15 pm

    I never said employees. I said people associated with WalMart. That includes company executives, managers and shareholders. I guarantee you that 500 billion in sales make Amway seem miniscule.

  351. August 9, 2018 3:16 pm

    “””If I show 100 plans 1-2 hours each and sponsor 20 and go platimum and make $50,000 how much is THAT per hour??””

    And if I buy the right lotto ticket, I can win millions. Do you actually have a point here?

  352. August 9, 2018 5:01 pm

    My point is it’s based on EFFORT (WHICH YOU APPARENTLY DID NOT DO.)

    Puryear never showed 10 plans in personal width. Neither did Brad or any other wwdb diamond show ten sponsor two (that’s the minimum every month – along with ten customers)
    Apparently you didn’t know Core very well. What did you do with all those “7 tapes a week”? Collect them? Or did you actually unwrap them?

  353. August 9, 2018 5:26 pm

    Have you shown 0 plans a month or 100 plans yet?1 did you have 10 customers?

  354. August 10, 2018 10:18 am

    That’s BS. It’s not effort. Do you honestly believe that the 99%+ of people who don’t make it in Amway didn’t work hard? Sure, Amway will take some hard work, but many who put in effort wind up making no profits. I spent all my evenings showing plans and doing Amway related business activities and my net profit was little to nothing. And I did what WWDB leaders advised.

    I was invited to “special” meetings and got to attend private meetings with the upline diamond. That was a privilege that I “earned” with my efforts.

    And those efforts got me zero net profit.

  355. August 10, 2018 12:34 pm

    It got you a $1000 check did it NOT? (Or was that just Lucky that Amway for no particular reason mailed you a check for $1000? (Or your upline paid you $1800 and you kept a net $1000 after paying out bonuses )

  356. August 10, 2018 1:21 pm

    My check was always for more than $1000 but in those days we also had to literally cut our own downline bonus checks, I was paying out 11 bonus checks at one time, but of course, some legs were bigger and more active than others.

  357. August 10, 2018 1:25 pm

    Well what was your Lotto ticket #? Since this obviously had nothing to do with your own effort.

  358. August 10, 2018 3:13 pm

    There is no secret lotto ticket. Saving money is a slow process, but it can be done. You need to live below your means and save by limiting what you spend on housing, food and transportation. If you do that, you can accumulate a nice chunk of savings while you are young and allow it to compound over the years. It’s possible for someone to save well over $100,000 before the age of 30.

    That is contrary to the excess lifestyle that the diamond try to portray at functions. For this reason, I highly doubt that most diamonds are living the high life that they portray at functions. I’m sure some of the more tenured diamonds might be very wealthy but the rank and file diamonds who are not Q12 cannot be buying homes and cars in cash while flying first class to functions and vacations. The math on this lifestyle just doesn’t add up.

  359. August 10, 2018 3:31 pm

    no no no. You said Amway is NOT based on EFFORT and compared it to a lotto ticket. Since you got $1000 I figured you must be pretty lucky. What’s your winning Lott number? 🤔

  360. August 10, 2018 3:52 pm

    I guess you didn’t read my comment a bit earlier: “” Sure, Amway will take some hard work, but many who put in effort wind up making no profits.””

  361. August 10, 2018 4:03 pm

    And many who do put in effort also make MORE money every month than I’ve ever made annually from a job. (I love THEIR odds way better than mine for a happy prosperous secure free future and early retirement from my job. )

    And BTW many out in EFFORT but don’t end up an any NFL roster, even after going through grueling trainingcamo in 97 degrees heat.
    Many put in EFFORT but don’t end up making Navy seals.
    Many put in EFFORT but wash out as marine candidates.

    Many put on effort but lose their time with no results trying to be stock brokers. (* See pursuit of happyness)
    I could name dozens of businesses where the intended owners failed & ended up hundreds of thousands or millions in debt.

    Most wannabe realtors fail. MOST people lose tens of thousands if not hundreds in the stock market.

    I know people personaly who’ve lost everything investing in real estate.

  362. August 10, 2018 5:09 pm

    Agreed with your points. Many want to be pro athletes or special ops in the military. But not all are capable of doing it.

    The difference is that Amway recruits people with the saying that “anyone can do it” and the implication is that everyone in the room can one day be a diamond and there is nothing further from the truth.

    In a group of elite football players, it’s possible for all or most of them to make an NFL roster.

    In a room of karate student, it’s possible for all of them to be black belts.

    In a room of Amway people, it’s not possible for all of them to go diamond because of the downline requirements and volume requirements. As I stated more than once, there’s a few new diamond here and there but since I left the business about 20 years ago, I believe just as many diamonds dropped out as there are new ones, at least in WWDB in north america.

    If the system worked, new diamonds would be churning out every couple of months instead of a handful in 20 years. Since I left Amway/WWDB, the lotto has churned out way more multi millionaires than Amway has produced diamonds in north america (WWDB)

  363. August 10, 2018 5:27 pm

    No. You said you got a check from your Amway business for $1000. So you must a got luck 🙃

  364. August 13, 2018 8:56 am

    Bottom line is your system doesn’t work. It exists to make profits for upline. In this day and age, who really needs voicemail? That could easily be replaced with twitter or facebook. But since voicemail is a big profit center for upline, they still use voicemail.

    Same with premiere club, standing order and functions. Why do you think upline never “walks away” from Amway? Because they make significant money from the WWDB system.

  365. August 13, 2018 11:37 am

    Ask these questions to learn if it’s a pyramid scheme. Make sure your income is based on sales to the public, not on what you have to buy yourself or the number of people you recruit.

    Be skeptical of rags-to-riches stories or portrayals of lavish lifestyles made possible by participating in the program. These stories may not represent the experiences of most members.

    Exercise doubt. Even if a company sells products or services you’re familiar with — or boasts celebrity members — it may not be legitimate.

  366. August 22, 2018 10:24 am

    Okay FIRST of all the FTC ALREADY went over this (in the 1970s. (If you’re still talking “pyramid” maybe you should get some bell bottoms or polyester suits )

    Second of all it is a LEGAL requirement to have clients. We’re not sales reps and don’t run around selling product. We make people aware of what’s available and let them access the site retail or wholesale.

    Third (& MOST importante) there is no pay based on recruiting. None. You can sponsor 100 people and you get ZERO money unless somebody buys or sells something.

  367. August 27, 2018 11:41 am

    Groups that emphasize “buy from yourself” could be operating in an illegal manner.

  368. August 27, 2018 12:36 pm

    LOL, you were “taught” to get a separate checking account and pay yourself full retail for Amway products and that “profit” (LOL) is how you fund your Amway tools and functions.

    Imagine that.

  369. August 27, 2018 5:08 pm

    Yeah imagine that (“?* And a few retail clients) is how Matt and Teresaa and Ken and Trevor (& all the other winners, of which you are NOT one), funded their Fed and dream night tickets and managed to build a large business beyond platimum within their first year in the business. You know, they actually DID what WWDB teaches and it WORKED. 🙄

  370. August 27, 2018 5:10 pm

    Yeahhh you’re right.. but you don’t get a bonus PV check unless you have customers.

  371. August 27, 2018 5:20 pm

    that’s STUPID. If it didn’t work then Matt and Sandee would not be Diamond then would they? (Actually they’re EDC but anyway. )
    Neither would Dean and Marci or Trevor and Lexi ) actually they’re now double diamonds making iver $75,000 a month after 3 years from Ruby. But anyway.

    And neither would Howie and Teresa (yes it works so well they can spend 4 MOS a year at THEIR second home in Hawaii. No suits. No meetings.
    (We’re you able to do that in your 40s? I don’t think so! )

    Neither would Mandy Yamamoto.
    (Think the system would STILL be around after 40 years if it didn’t work? I don’t think so!)

    It didn’t work for YOU because you (obviously) did NOT do what they TEACH (** where is the CD which says to quit at 4000 and tell your whole group negative stuff? I musta missed that one.)
    See ya! On my way to meet more winners.
    Hasta la Vista

  372. August 27, 2018 5:25 pm

    MOST people can afford to fly first class on $400,000 a year. (But at that point amway pays for those trips.).

    Trevor got $100,000 Mercedes. Cash. . And his own airplane. At 34. (Did you do that at 34?)

  373. August 28, 2018 9:48 am

    Still riding the coat tails Malachy? Never mind Matt Tsuruda or some other diamonds. What have you and some others accomplished under their mentor ship? I don’t care about Trevor’s airplane. Do you have one? And FYI, 400K a year is nowhere near enough to own and properly maintain a plane.

  374. August 28, 2018 9:50 am

    The system is still around because there are still people foolish enough to sign up. It’s not because it’s a proven system that has effective results. For that matter, illegal drug dealers and the mafia must work too, because they’re been around longer than Amway.

  375. August 29, 2018 7:40 am

    Boy you have a reading comprehension problem. Nwhat I SAID was (let me repeat). You can fly first class just fine on $400,0000.

    As for Trevor (I guess he makes alot more than $400,000 then?)
    More than you’ve ever made in your lifetime.

  376. August 29, 2018 7:44 am

    Yeah you know, foolish people like Pete and Rachel, Mandy, and Dean and Marci (who all went Diamond…using the system …)

  377. August 29, 2018 7:55 am

    Just as a speed boat pulls the skier, yes, I ride the wave created by Matt’s tremendous success, now bringing up many other leaders like Mandy and Jai and his parents who just broke two legs themselves.

    This is not about “riding their coat tails”. It’s about the FACT that this business model and training system has proven over and iver again to help people get out of debt, free from their Jobs and build wealth. Obvious.

    As for me? My little seedling is just germinating 3-4 new legs as we speak. I got people in Burbank, Sacramento, and San Jose in the process right now.

  378. August 29, 2018 7:59 am

    Oops. Did I say trevir Baker (successful mentoree of EDC. Glen and joya Baker) bought that plane on $400,000? How many times have I mentioned he makes 7 digits?? (That’s MORE than you’ll ever make. “millionaire”. )

  379. August 29, 2018 8:03 am

    Bottom line is your brain doesn’t work. It exists to fabricate excuses and come up with problems for every solution. Negative people do that.
    WINNERS do the imposible when people like you say it can’t be done.

  380. August 29, 2018 9:36 am

    Naming a few people who went diamond “using the system” is as good a comparison as naming people who won the lottery. You are leaving out millions who didn’t go diamond, or who didn’t win the lottery. The sad thing is Amway is not a game of chance but the results are similar.

  381. August 29, 2018 9:38 am

    You keep mentioning that people make 7 digit incomes but you haven’t shown any evidence of it. The diamonds can tell you anything you want. Greg Duncan was a triple diamond and he made $40K a month. Nice income but less than half of a 7 digit income. And you expect me to believe that lesser diamonds are making more?

  382. August 29, 2018 9:41 am

    Malachy Smith said: “”It’s about the FACT that this business model and training system has proven over and iver again to help people get out of debt, free from their Jobs and build wealth.”””

    Baloney. Other than the diamonds and a few family members, where are all these people who got out of debt, free from their jobs and building wealth?

    The math shows that the majority in Amway have not sponsored anyone and are likely in that 3% bracket, which means they all lose money from KATE, or WWDB premiere club, or from attending any functions. Or worse, they participate in all and lose “mo money”

  383. August 29, 2018 9:43 am

    I’ve been blogging for more than 15 years. Not a single person can name a single diamond who built Amway and walked away from the business to enjoy overflowing residual income. Instead we see crowns like Puryear or Britt working functions until they pass away.

  384. August 29, 2018 11:17 am

    Yeah well I guess the lottery works then ha? 😉😄🙄.

    So since when are you an expert on going diamond since you’ve never done it??

  385. August 29, 2018 1:10 pm

    I did more in Amway than you have so far if you want to venture down that road.

  386. August 29, 2018 1:44 pm

    So “blogging” makes you some kind of an expert?

    (How would you know what these people do with their lives? Have you ever 🐝 a diamond? No! )

    Ever hear of Theron and Darlene Nelson?
    How about THEIR downline Terry and Linda Felber?
    (Bill Britt BTW did “retire” from the business before he died.)

    Howie Danzik spent 4 month-ayear away from his business in Colorado every year for the last 13 years. That’s freedom. (Did you do that in your 40s?)

    David Duncan spent many months in a coma when he was sick (but the checks kept coming!!)

    Matt and Sandee weren’t actively building it while raising their daughters. They were free full time parents in their 20s and 30s. Now they’re taking it to a higher level,, mentoiring their own daughters how to do this.

    Neil Diamond never walked away from his music business until he got sick recently.
    His keyboard players in his 60s. Still working. Doing movie soundtracks and playing with a Niel diamond tribute artist .

    Many people who don’t NEED the money still do what they do. (my mentor in the advertising business is a retired drummer and still works 4 days a week running his million dollar advertising company. Approaching 70 years old)

    So what the hell is your point??

  387. August 29, 2018 1:46 pm

    Yeahhh and I’ll make Twice what you did at 4000 PV. What’s your point, quitter?

  388. August 29, 2018 2:42 pm

    Blogging by no means makes me an expert and I’ve never claimed to be an expert in the first place. But in 15 years, I’ve seen people like you frequently who make big claims, talk big and brag about how much $$$ their upline makes, and within a few months, they disappear never to be heard from again. Just scroll down to the beginnings of some of these threads and you’ll see.

  389. August 29, 2018 2:46 pm

    You keep making claims about how much $$$ some of these people make but the fact of the matter is you don’t really know. Some of these diamonds might be in debt and scraping by from check to check. Making a lot of money doesn’t mean you have a lot of money. Look at Greg Duncan. He was a triple diamond for a long time but somehow he ended up in bankruptcy and he owed years of back taxes and had credit card debt. Just because someone is a diamond doesn’t mean they are financially responsible.

    Even your friend Matt, if he’s really renting a place for $20,000 a month, seems pretty excessive. Especially since he’s a EDC (half of Greg Duncan) and unlikely to be making as much as Greg.

  390. August 29, 2018 2:50 pm

    When you use the term “quitter”, only means I quit Amway. It doesn’t mean I gave up in life and gave up on trying to better myself personally and financially. You have the typical Amway “holier than thou” attitude.

    Just because some people, maybe most people realize Amway is a crappy business and choose to make their money elsewhere, doesn’t mean we are losers and quitters.

    You do know that there are a bunch of diamonds who resigned or quit Amway right? Now why do you suppose they would resign or quit if they could “walk away” and collect residual income?

  391. August 29, 2018 3:22 pm

    Maybe they just give up talking to negative whiners, complainers, quitters and LOSERS.
    (EVER thougt about that? 🤔)

  392. August 29, 2018 4:19 pm

    All I know is YOU QUiT AMWAY (& BLAMED amwayWWDB).

    (Yeah such a “crappy business” that enables a hopelessly in debt couple get FREE and even quit their jobs and then teach their son how to do even better and at a Young age, buying an airplane at 34 years old. What a crappy business. SMH 🙄)

    You QUIT at 4000 how would you know the lifestyle or motives of a diamond like Terry Felber (who now is full time in ministry projects like building Wells in Africa)

    How would you know what it’s like to be a diamond??

  393. August 29, 2018 4:39 pm

    Show me where I blamed Amway and WWDB? I said it was a crappy business and WWDB teaches bad business practices but I didn’t blame them for anything.

    So what if a few people allegedly got out of debt because of Amway? How many hundreds of thousands or millions lost money because of Amway? How many went into debt because of Amway?

    How would I know about the lifestyles of the diamonds? Easy, you spent much time here telling me about them. Not to mention they are on social media and I can easily access some of that information.

  394. August 29, 2018 4:41 pm

    SMH that you think Amway is the best way to earn a living or that the diamonds are somehow virtuous.

  395. August 29, 2018 4:42 pm

    Dude you’re a blind selfish hypocrite. I’m DONE. (want me to mail you a copy of my check?)

  396. August 29, 2018 5:52 pm

    Yeah well don’t shake your head too hard yo might damage what little brain you have rattling around in there.

    Nobody else (including you) ever showed me a better way to make $300,000-400,000 a year or MORE and to pay off my debts and gave no boss. (Sure I can get up to $200,000-300,000 a year building up my advertising business but it’s not the same impact, freedom, or legacy. )

    So. Can you pay cash for $1000,000 cars? Can you teach me how do do THAT?

  397. August 30, 2018 10:51 am

    Show me solid evidence of someone who paid cash for a $1 million dollar car.

    You keep saying things like that but you have displayed nothing to make me think even your beloved diamonds can pay cash for big ticket items.

    The only evidence I’ve see was how little diamonds make. I saw the income of a former diamond Don Lorencz and it was not impressive. Fred Harteis was a double diamond but he resigned and quit Amway.

    Greg Duncan made a nice income of about half a million per year from Amway (includes all the triple diamond bonuses) but he was bankrupt, owed back taxes and had credit card debt.

    Where’s the actual evidence of all this success? I can show you slide shows and tell you I made a certain amount of money. It doesn’t make it true, but you hang on every word your diamond tells you.

  398. August 30, 2018 10:53 am

    Why am I a hypocrite? I was in Amway. I achieved a fairly high level. higher than you.

    There was no net profit so I did something else and now I’m a young and fairly well off retiree.

    I’m quite happy with what I have.

    You on the other hand, brag about all the wealth and cash your upline allegedly has, but you have not achieved anything close to that. But you are their fiercest defender. Why?

  399. August 30, 2018 11:09 am

    I defend the things i believe in, like my Catholic faith, my Lord God Jesus Christ, and the best business model that has provided extremely well for my friends and their family, and how I plan to take care of my family and better my own retirement and legacy.

    You are attacking/ besmirching MY business model as far as I’m concerned.

    I don’t go around online “blogging” and attacking what you do so if you’re gonna give it you better be prepared to take it !

  400. August 30, 2018 11:19 am

    Dude you’re so stupid you just didn’t get it even with the partner stores concept. Amway doesn’t make suits or sell suits or “mark them up”. 🙄

    Those companies have to pay out of pocket FOR my business and my loyalty. It’s part of THEIR cost of partnering with Amway. (Either you’re really stupid or completely dishonest in how you represented yourself just now.)

    I go to Jos A Banks at the mall and pay retail. Or I can go on THEIR site and buy the same suit for whatever is the price. Or I can log in through my amway account and link to THEIR site, get the SAME suit for the same price but they gotta pay me a bonus!

    (And, no, ant no Time did I EVER say somebody bought a “Million dollar car”. See? THERE you go, lying again. Oh my gosh. Just like Brad Duncan says “liar”).

  401. August 30, 2018 11:31 am

    What does the bible say about money in Timothy?

    1 Timothy 6:10 New International Version (NIV)
    10 For the love of money is a root of all kinds of evil. Some people, eager for money, have wandered from the faith and pierced themselves with many griefs.

    You are so enamored with paying $20k monthly rent, buying million dollar cars, making hundreds of thousands of dollars. Aren’t you worshiping money and false idols (the diamonds)?

  402. August 30, 2018 11:37 am

    I get the partner stores perfectly. You sell their stuff but they don’t sell Amway stuff.

    Instead of going to Jos A Banks, you buy the same thing from a catalog. Now you claim it’s the exact same price but I have my doubts. If they are paying you a bonus for buying that suit, either they are eating the cost of the commission or they charge you more than going in person to Jos A Banks. That’s the way business works.

    Also, the partner stores have a great deal. If you sell nothing, they pay nothing. You use your time and effort to sell their products and then they pay you a bonus if you actually sell something.

    You asked me if I can pay a million bucks cash for a car. So I asked if any of the diamonds have done so. If not, then why ask the question? for your information, I pay cash for my cars when I make purchases but I’m perfectly happy with my Toyota Tacoma truck which I purchased in cash in 2015.

  403. August 30, 2018 6:57 pm

    No! We don’t buy from a catalog! 🙄 (What? Are you stuck in the 90s??)

    THIS is the 21st century! Wake up sleepy!!
    I (or my customers or my (potentially) thousands of downline) go online through my/ THEIR website/ access code. Click on partner stores and every partner store is linked in with a compensation for every purchase on THEIR site by our customers and members. They gotta pay to play in our arena. Get it???

  404. August 31, 2018 5:39 am

    IT takes me ZERO “time & Effort” to “sell” partner store stuff. If I need it I buy it there. THAT’S the concept. We get paid to buy so whatever we need or want we buy it there first. (Man no wonder you’re a failed “4000”. Probably had it mostly down one leg, mostly on your upline effort. You, apparently, never even understood the GENIUS of our marketing plan.)

    I don’t go running around asking people if they wanna buy something.

  405. August 31, 2018 7:18 am

    No. You got it wrong WRONG (&, just like Brad SAID you’re using God as an excuse to QUIT or fail.

    I’m more enamored with being debt free and having no financial stress and not being a slave to a boss or job. I’m more enamored with mother’s raising their OWN kids instead of day-care. I’m more enamored of people taking care of their parents instead of warehousing them. I’m much more enanores of having $300,0000 to live debt free and being able to leave town and go spend my time with my family members in Europe and my brother on the east coast.

    I’m more enamored with men who treat their lady like a queen and know how to be (and have the means to) be a first class gentleman.

  406. August 31, 2018 9:51 am

    Online = online catalog. (I know that shopping is done online)

    If you need it and buy it, it take zero effort. For one, that is not true. The item won’t buy itself. But while you’re on the subject, “buying from yourself” is not a business transaction. You are a customer. If I own McDonalds and I eat a big mac from my own restaurant, who much money did I make? I made zero zilch nada.

    Don’t you get that? You only make money when you sell to customers.

    I hope this misguided teaching isn’t part of WWDB’s key to success.

  407. August 31, 2018 9:58 am

    “””No. You got it wrong WRONG (&, just like Brad SAID you’re using God as an excuse to QUIT or fail.”””

    Then why are you constantly bragging about how your upline rents a place for 20k per month, or mention that they make millions, fly first class, buy expensive cars, and do all kinds of leisure activities. How is that glorifying God? You NEVER mentioned them using their riches to help the less fortunate or how they use their “freedom” to help others.

    Then you turn around and ask me why I don’t have the same millions of dollars that you allege these diamonds have. You think that’s a Godly thing to do? As I said, I am fairly well off, but completely content with what I have. And I do spend time helping others.

    Your virtuous mentors from WWDB include Brad Wolgamott, Dean Grey (formerly Kosage), Howie Danzik, and Jim Brooks. Tell me how their original marriages are?

    Having more money doesn’t mean you will suddenly be debt free (ask Greg Duncan). It doesn’t mean you will suddenly visit your brother or take care of your parents.

    Why does it have to be $300k? That isn’t biblical. Jesus always told his disciples to be content with what you have, not to be envious of others.

  408. August 31, 2018 11:16 am

    Apparently you MISSED the part about duplicate and wholesale membership. If I create 300 PV in retail and personal use and dulpicate that 50-60 X I make THOUSANDS of dollars.

  409. August 31, 2018 11:22 am

    Wwll for my personal situation and the cost of living in Silicon Valley (* highest in the nation) the number is $300,000. Not owing taxes or medical bills or anything and still having a decent standard of living. ($117,000 is considered “low income” here buddy)

    And who are YOU to judge what I do with my money anyway? Did you say you have a rental property? Go and sell it and give all the money to the poor you tin plated Judas.

  410. August 31, 2018 11:26 am

    My dad’s board and care was $7200 a month before he died, not including any other costs for doctors or medicine. Thanks God the old model (get an education get a good job) worked out okay for him. But NEWS today is more than half the people will end up bankrupt in retirement. No thanks. NOT for me.

  411. August 31, 2018 11:28 am

    $300,000 is what it takes to qualify for buying a home here.

  412. August 31, 2018 11:52 am

    WHERE did I say I was envious of others? (Certainly not of you. Yuck)
    And the amount I need to be debt free and live comfortably is “biblical”?

    Show me “the moral amount” as Greg Duncan says. (I wouldn’t want to go over the preset biblical limit and end up in hell)

    You SAID you own 2 homes. Why did you buy MORE than you needed, you hypocrite? Why don’t you sell one and give that money to the poor.

  413. August 31, 2018 1:30 pm

    You obviously worship your WWDB “mentors” like Greg Duncan who had no charitable deductions on his tax refunds when he filed bankruptcy.

  414. August 31, 2018 1:34 pm

    You make a big deal bragging about the millions you claim these WWDB people are making and you seem to enjoy trying to imply that people who don’t agree with you are “losers”.

    Of course there’s no biblical “amount” of money that you’re supposed to earn but obviously,. becoming in love with money is what the Bible warns us about. If Jesus told me to sell my house, that would be one thing. Sorry, you aren’t him.

    And I do give back to the less fortunate. In addition to monetary resources, I also participate in a group that assists widows and elderly with house repairs and yard work. We do this while you are at functions or stalking prospects who are potential downline.

  415. August 31, 2018 2:39 pm

    DUDE I don’t even know Greg Duncan. Never met him. Your obsession with him speaks volumes.

  416. August 31, 2018 2:54 pm

    He’s one of the most tenured WWDB leaders. You’re telling me people in WWDB don’t hang on his every word?

  417. August 31, 2018 2:58 pm

    “tenured”? There ain’t no “tenure” in this business, professor. All I do know is he’s accomplished a hell of a lot more than you ever did. (Did you ever make $40,000 a month? Did you ever own multiple multimillion dollar houses? Did you retire in your 20s)

    And just how MANY people are debt free/ job free because you helped them?

  418. August 31, 2018 3:11 pm

    Well won’t he Jesus be proud of you! Wooptiidoo.

    I’ve never been a stalker. (but apparently you have)).

  419. September 4, 2018 10:30 am

    “””Did you ever make $40,000 a month? Did you ever own multiple multimillion dollar houses? Did you retire in your 20s”””

    I never ever ever had to file for chapter 7 bankruptcy, Maybe that’s something Greg can teach you? How many people are debt free because of Greg? Can you name and verify 5?

  420. September 4, 2018 10:31 am

    And by the way, you didn’t retire in your 20’s. You’ve never made $40,000 a month.

    Is there a reason why you keep bringing this up?

  421. September 4, 2018 11:26 am

    Because $30,000 a month is my standards or benchmark of where I wanna be, unless you’ve made that much or more you’ve got nothing you can teach here. (WHY would I wanna learn from a quitters l how to succeed at anything??)

  422. September 4, 2018 12:01 pm

    Well, we could see an example of a triple diamond making $40k per month. And that 40k includes all the Amway bonuses. More than likely your hero Matt makes less, being that he’s not a double or triple diamond.

    So who’s actually qualified to “teach” you anything if as you claim, the person teaching you must also have done it.

    You don’t know exactly what these diamonds are making. I’m certain a bunch of them make less than 30k per month.

  423. September 4, 2018 1:42 pm

    No. I know for fact that as an EDC he made $90,000 a month. His own sister was diamond making iver $25,000 a month. His uppline Mike said “I’d be depressed if I only made $90,000 a month”. See you don’t even know the difference between pin and profit.

  424. September 4, 2018 1:44 pm

    So how would you know how much a diamond or double diamond makes? You’ve NEVER been one!

  425. September 4, 2018 2:41 pm

    Right so as en EDC, he was making more than double than a triple diamond. I have my serious doubts, especially since you really don’t know.

  426. September 4, 2018 2:42 pm

    You do know that Amway has income disclosures right? That tells you the range of income for various levels of Amway IBOs.

  427. September 4, 2018 3:05 pm

    Again you don’t even understand the most basic fundamentals of this business. Perhaps you recall Dave Severn (there’s a guy who’s been “retired” for YEARS. Safe to say he could easily walk away with thousands a month just off the Duncan leg. But anyway..m) saying “legs of platimums vs platimum legs”. How many diamonds downline just in that one leg? 7500 is the minimum. There’s Ruby and saphires and emeralds and diamonds downline. You know how pass up volume works? You do know Brad and Julie make way more money than Greg and Laurie right? THIS is NOT a pyramid.

    At ( the old) 4% how much would you make off a 30,000 PV leg? Do the math? How much off an emerald or diamonds leg. Then there’s the Ruby side valume, platimum achiever’s bonus, the founder’s diamond or EDC bonus, and the annual growth incentives and annual one time awards that are more than you make in a year.

    But hey 40,000 and no Job sounds great to me.

  428. September 4, 2018 3:08 pm

    Yes I believe it’s AVERAGE $400,000-600,000 as Diamond and well over $2,000,000 at the high end.

  429. September 4, 2018 3:11 pm

    And was Duncan a “tripple diamond” during the years in question? Probably not. Probably EDC.

  430. September 4, 2018 3:14 pm

    I kno Hawkins mentioned he made around $170,000 a couple years ago. Better than any school teachers I know. And MORE than I’ve ever seen made in anything. I’ll take it.

  431. September 4, 2018 3:31 pm

    $40k and no job sounds great but this doesn’t apply to you!

    Average 400k to 600k is for a “founders” diamond. Founder’s diamonds are the rare exception and not the rule.

    I know that a qualified diamond can earn decent money but I’m also pretty sure you have no idea what their net profit is because you don’t get to see their profit and loss statements.

  432. September 4, 2018 4:58 pm

    I’ll get $15,000 a month at Ruby plus my $4000-7,000 off my ad business before I ramp it up to $750,0000 like I’ve been shown. (and I’ll just Cruise mostly on renewals in my ad business, maybe work it 2-4 days a week if I want to)

  433. September 5, 2018 9:05 am

    Yeah, and I will eventually get $40,000 a month making comments about Amway. I could walk away and enjoy the residual income but since I enjoy it so much, I’ll keep “working”.

  434. September 5, 2018 3:04 pm

    Nobody’s gonna put you “40,000 a month,” to “blog” or comment on ? Amway. . Nobody CARES!!!

  435. September 5, 2018 3:06 pm

    Nobody CARES enough about you or your “comments” to pay you $40,000 a. Month. Please!! ,😂😂😂😂😁🤣🤣🤣

  436. September 5, 2018 3:55 pm

    And you’re not going to make $40k per month in Amway. 🙂

  437. September 5, 2018 4:30 pm

    what are you some kind of time traveler or psychic? (More like a psycho stalker of your ex business. Dude you’re obsessed)

  438. September 6, 2018 10:11 am

    I’ll make MORE than that (JUST to piss you off 😎). Can’t wait to see what excuse you’ll make for my success or how you’ll Find something WRONG with my freedom.

  439. September 6, 2018 10:58 am

    Malachy, you have to understand a few things. I don’t claim that nobody makes money in Amway. I know some people make good money in Amway. The problem is that the ones making the big money are doing so by exploiting their downline. The downline’s PV purchases and participation in premiere club, KATE and functions is what causes upline diamonds to make money but is also the reason why most active downline loses money.

  440. September 6, 2018 10:59 am

    If you actually make some money and come back here to prove it, you will be the first one in the 15 years I’ve been actively commenting and researching about Amway and MLMs.

    I suspect it’s far more likely you’ll quit within a few months and disappear from this forum.

  441. September 6, 2018 11:21 am

    Na. QUiT? NEVER. (See you don’t understand the meaning of commitment. I didn’t committ to go 4000. I committed to make this my living and my mission on impacting others who need a better option than working all your life and retiring bankrupt)

    You finish what you start. when Steve Young felt like quitting at BYU because he did not like how things were going his dad said “you can quit but you can’t come home. I don’t live with quitters”.

    Quitters are never champions and champions never quit. ..see ya.

    ThanMijs fir The motivation.

  442. September 6, 2018 11:43 am

    Steve Young “quit” the NFL when Aeneas Williams knocked him into next year.

    Nobody plans to quit Amway. Plenty of people have the ambition to go diamond and never quit. But the reality is that nearly 100% of people quit Amway within 5 years.

    You’ll have impact on people all right. You’ll be encouraging them to neglect their families and to spend their discretionary income on premiere club, KATE and functions. The net result is a loss of time and money for the vast majority of these people.

    These people are generally ambitious and want more out of life. But Amway is a flawed system that fails. That’s why people rarely make it big in Amway. The system is designed to operate that way. A function with 10,000 people can only support a handful of diamonds. That’s how Amway works.

  443. September 6, 2018 11:47 am

    Quitting and retiring are NOT the same thing.

  444. September 6, 2018 11:59 am

    “Fails” to the tune of 8+ billion a year no debt no stocks. Failed to the tune of $50 billions paid out in bonuses and profits. FAILED as in people quite literally owing their existence to THEIR parents building the business (see David Felber, Mattie, Taylor Tsuruda, Danzik family, and many others who would never have 🐝 Born if mom.and dad didn’t build this business.)

    FAILED like Ron Puryear bringing his wife home from Denny’s and then not having to go get another job when he got fired. (Ron NEVER took any money away from his job to build the business except the initial starter kit. I’m pretty sure Georgia Lee preferred being home with her boys than working till midnight at Denny’s dude. )

    Get a clue.

  445. September 6, 2018 12:39 pm

    Failed as in 11.8 billion is revenues in 2013 and 8.6 billion in 2017. Nearly 25% less revenues.

    Just because SOME people made money in Amway doesn’t mean it’s a good business opportunity. More people get rich from the lottery than from Amway but nobody thinks the lottery is a good or sustainable way to make an income.

    The Amway diamonds are like politicians. They lie and they can live cushy lives from the benefits they receive from tax payers. The downline in Amway are like tax payers and the premiere club, functions and standing orders are the taxes.

  446. September 6, 2018 12:45 pm

    And you’re the reason why anway will never saturate. Come on say it with me : “you’ll never saturate ignorance, stupidity, laziness & doubt” – Bradley D..

  447. September 6, 2018 1:02 pm

    FAILED as in leaving behind the Helen Devos children’s hospital. (So how many hospitals have you built with your fortune, “millionaire”??)

    Rich Devoss left behind a business which helps support dozens of families for generations. So what is your great legacy?

  448. September 6, 2018 3:09 pm

    The only reason why complete saturation hasn’t happened is because a sucker is born every minute. If Amway operated in a village or small island, you would quickly see saturation.

    Amway’s revenues has been tanking because foreign expansion has slowed down – because the world is getting saturated.

  449. September 6, 2018 3:13 pm

    DeVos and Van Andel own Amway. I agree that owning an MLM can be a great opportunity because you have millions who work for free moving your products,. Some are silly enough to think “buying from yourself” makes them money.

  450. September 6, 2018 3:19 pm

    Devos wnd Van andel don’t own anything. They’re dead.

  451. September 6, 2018 3:22 pm

    . Yeah. You think Ron Puryear didn’t hear that in the 1970s?

  452. September 6, 2018 3:32 pm

    DeVos and Van Andel have kids with the same names do they not?

  453. September 6, 2018 3:33 pm

    WWDB has fewer diamonds (in the US) now than 20 years ago. Why is that?

  454. September 6, 2018 3:35 pm

    Yeah so what kind of business are you leaving YOUR kids?

  455. September 6, 2018 3:36 pm

    WHERE did you get that stat? From your random statistic invention file?

  456. September 6, 2018 3:54 pm

    My kids will inherit real estate plus cash. I also have life insurance.

    Amway folks will leave their kids a business that can crumble in a short period of time.

  457. September 6, 2018 3:55 pm

    Since my time in Amway, I mostly see the same old diamonds in WWDB, minus the ones who died or quit. There are only a few new ones since that time as well.

  458. September 6, 2018 4:59 pm

    Besides “Dean Grey” (,I always thought he was phoney anyway) Harstat with his “nutriceuticals” deal who else quit?

  459. September 6, 2018 5:16 pm

    Toshi Taba passed away, Ron Puryear passed away, Brad Wolgamott, Jimmy Head, Dane Kaneshiro, Rod Jao, there are others.

  460. September 8, 2018 2:36 pm

    So what if I quit amway or hang up my wwdb membership. Then what? You chalk that up as some kinda victory?? (And what of my friendship with Ken? You think I can just QUiT on my friend??)

  461. September 10, 2018 1:25 pm

    You can be friends with them even if you’re not participating in the Amway/WWDB scam.

    Or maybe your friendship is based on your participation?

  462. September 10, 2018 1:31 pm

    So. Would you be friends with a “scam” operator?

  463. September 11, 2018 9:31 am

    I wouldn’t but then again it’s a personal decision.

  464. September 11, 2018 9:36 am

    Well neither do I. My friends are all legit and the only scammers I keep meeting are online.🤔

  465. September 11, 2018 11:30 am

    Must be those Amway folks on facebook and snapchat who try to recruit people. 🙂

  466. September 11, 2018 11:40 am

    Have no ieda what you’re talking about. Never even seen Snapchat & never “tried to recruit X” people on Facebook.
    MOSTly I find “bloggers” are the scammers. Telling lies, mistruths, half truths and exaggerations, purporting themselves to be some kind of “experts” (on something which they themselves have never succeeded at, let alone even been in the industry in 20 years.)

  467. September 11, 2018 2:59 pm

    What lies mistruths or half truths? Certainly the bloggers have more facts than the long list of income and lifestyle claims you’ve made without substantiating evidence, and contrary to the information available from Amway.

    You can’t even name (and verify) a single diamond who built Amway and walked away to enjoy residual income forever.

  468. September 11, 2018 3:21 pm

    Uh.. let’s see. (Ever hear of) David & Darlene DUNCAN? (HE WAS in a coma. Checks kept coming). Terry and Linda Felber. (Currently retired. Working in missions in Africa when they’re not on their island home)
    How bout Dave Severn?
    Howie Danzik )4 MOS away from his business every year at their second home at Coalina)

    Theron & Darlene Nelson.
    (Oops. I think that’s more that “a single diamond”.)

    G & L Duncan don’t even do regionals any more. (Legacy diamond. Means over 30 years a qualified diamond. So. Did you retire 30 years ago? 🤔)

  469. September 11, 2018 4:36 pm

    The level of diamond is no guarantee of income. Even at diamond, you need to qualify in order to continue to receive bonuses. You get to keep the diamond pin forever, but the income only comes in if your business qualifies for the bonuses.

    Being a diamond is not like receiving a pension or social security check. It’s even possible that the diamonds you speak of have retired on social security and investments and savings they accumulated when they were working their businesses.

    It’s very possible that they get little or nothing from Amway anymore.

  470. September 11, 2018 5:21 pm

    Well that was brilliant! Let’s see. Diamond: 6 or more legs of IBOs at the 7500 level or higher. (So genius do you one how much the diamond bonus is?)

  471. September 12, 2018 11:28 am

    It doesn’t matter what the diamond bonus is. A lot of diamonds don’t get a diamond bonus once they stop working the business. It’s no secret that most people join Amway and do little or nothing and wind up quitting. About half or more of all recruits quit within the first year. With that kind of attrition, the business needs constant attention.

    For that reason, a diamond can barely afford to take long vacations. They could return a few weeks later to find that a platinum leg has crumbled and just like that, they have to rebuild or risk losing their diamond bonuses.

  472. September 12, 2018 12:45 pm

    Oh brother that’s so flipping retarded. Do you understand what we mean by “ongoing income” or “legs of platimums”?
    (Do you think Mike Woods doesn’t get a bonus EVERY month on Matt’s huge business? You don’t think Matt & Sandee make bank off of Mandy’s diamond business?? )
    What about Dave savern? Think he lays awake Wondering where his checks are? Just off Duncan’s leg I’m sure he makes more in a month than most people make in a crappy job buddy.

    And Theron Nelson? He’s got the Felbers (who are retired) backed by the Danzik business. And he’s got Norm and Pam kizirian and Hawkins also.

  473. September 12, 2018 12:56 pm

    You can have a diamond downline leg and get nothing without other parameters. You don’t know if Dave Severn gets anything from Amway if he’s not active. YOU don’t know. The business must qualify each month. Having a downline diamond means nothing if the rest of your business is nothing.

    Harimoto was sponsored by a guy name Derek Chock. I can’t a find a trace of the guy anymore. He probably quit the business by now.

  474. September 12, 2018 1:05 pm

    If there really was residual and willable income from Amway, why can’t I find any information about it on the Amway website?

    And how would you explain diamonds quitting or resigning if a diamond business can provide residual income forever?

  475. September 12, 2018 1:17 pm

    Nobody ever said that “residual income forever” was possible. It’s ongoing income (meaning, you build it properly once and it keeps on paying while you go on and build other legs. Brad Duncan is building his Fourth diamond business. (His kids are now rubies earnings six figures. Think they’re gonna quit???). As for Dave Severn I’m pretty sure Duncan isn’t his only leg. Matt and Sandee have NEVER gone out of qualifications and neither has Greg Duncan or Ron Puryear (so you think Georgia Lee is out filling job application at Denny’s now?)

  476. September 12, 2018 1:39 pm

    It’s a legacy business… meaning: you can integrate your descendants Into it and they can continue to build on to what you’ve already built. Felbers and NELSONS haveE already integrated their sons & daughters into it. Ron Puryear integrated Jim into their crown business before he died. Jim inherits a crown business.

  477. September 12, 2018 2:57 pm

    How come Teresa and Howie aren’t double diamonds? They were both diamonds and got married.

    You keep tossing around “so and so” is making 6 figures, or millions when in fact you don’t know.

  478. September 12, 2018 2:59 pm

    There is no legacy business unless you own Amway. If you “walk away” as a diamond and one platinum falls apart, you are no longer a diamond,.

    None of Harimoto’s original platinum legs are around anymore. His sponsor can’t be found either (so much for a downline diamond).

  479. September 12, 2018 3:03 pm

    It doesn’t work that way. Matt’s diamond leg doesn’t just get reassigned to somebody else’s crosslone group. Duh. Danzik is under Felber (who is retired and has since integrated their business into THEIR son David’s business.)

  480. September 12, 2018 3:14 pm

    Well I know for a fact that the Tsuruda organization has several legs making over $150,000 a year. Dave Severn is retired. Brad Duncan didn’t buy a Bentley working construction 😉😎.
    You, yourself established as fact that G & L Duncan were making $500,000 a year.

    Ron Puryear didn’t build a $10,000,000.00 house working as an account!

    Nuff said. You’re out of arguments.

  481. September 12, 2018 3:20 pm

    . Apparently you did not read the part about Jim Puryear? Or David Felber? Or Nelson’s daughter. (And, yes, just like with Van Andwl & Devoss the IBOs get to pass their business on to their descendants).

    What do you think happens to Duncan’s income after he dies?

  482. September 12, 2018 3:23 pm

    Ujhm. One leg falls below the 25% you STILL make money off it and that makes you a 5 legged emerald.

  483. September 12, 2018 3:29 pm

    You can pass on the business. But if the income stops, you get nothing. With 50% or more quitting each year, and the majority of people who sign up do nothing, it’s not hard for a busiiness to fall apart.

    You never addressed why Howie and Teresa are double diamonds.

    You never addressed why Harimoto has no original platinums around and his sponsor can’t be found either.

    It platinums fall out, which is frequent, diamonds fall out also.

  484. September 12, 2018 3:30 pm

    Why Howie and Teresa are NOT double diamonds

  485. September 12, 2018 3:37 pm

    You never addressed why you’re such an “expert” on something you’ve never done. Terry Felbers never gone backwards. Neither has Greg or Brad Duncan. Neither has Howie Danzik nor Matt Tsuruda. Neither did Ton Puryear (in FACT his business is bigger now than it was before he died. As for David Dunc he died (think Bob and Shelley Kummer said “oh. Wait. Dave died so I need to go get a job”?)

    Duhhrrrr. “Geez you’re intelligent”.

  486. September 12, 2018 4:12 pm

    WHY isn’t Howie Danzik a sports/ occupational therapist? WHY isn’t Teresa an insurance agent? WHY do they have 3 houses? Why doesn’t Howie work every night 4 months out of the year?

    And what is NAGC? DO you know?

  487. September 12, 2018 4:18 pm

    Using your own logic. How do you know what they make? how do you know whether their business has ups and downs? You haven’t done it yourself.

    I never said I was some kind of expert but I’ve been researching and discussing the merits of Amway for nearly 20 years so I know more about it than the average Joe on the street.

    You keep making claims for things you can’t possibly know as if they were facts.

    If Greg were doing so well, he wouldn’t have filed bankruptcy which showed he had problems with finances even if he made a good income. You think he’s the only diamond who has financial trouble?

  488. September 12, 2018 5:00 pm

    Do Job people have financial troubles? (& How many job people make $40,000 a month anyway? )

  489. September 12, 2018 5:12 pm

    Of course job people have financial trouble. So do Amway people. The amount of money you make doesn’t necessarily mean you live debt free. You can make a large income and be irresponsible with your money and wind up filing for bankruptcy.

    You can have a much lesser income and still be debt free if you are responsible.

    Diamonds encourage a lifestyle of excess, such as renting a place for $20k per month. I can easily see how a diamond who travels a lot to functions and stays at hotels, can get into a lifestyle where their money goes fast, even with a good income.

    That was my point from the beginning. Diamonds are just a cross cut of society. The US in general has a lot of people in debt. Why would some rich people be any different?

  490. September 12, 2018 9:13 pm

    Hey I’d rather have a diamond business than a job

  491. September 13, 2018 12:59 pm

    What you don’t know is who is actually a diamond or not. A diamond could have their business fall apart but they can still speak at functions and make a decent income off honorariums and tools income. But would you be “fired up” about someone who’s not qualified anymore?

    Some of the diamonds you speak about might be out of qualification but Amway recognizes the pin so the ranking stands forever, even if the free trips and bonuses stop.

  492. September 13, 2018 1:08 pm

    Nnnope! That’s nnnot how it works!! People like Carroll or Radford who might not be currently diamonds (or Harimoto) are NOT speaking on stage as diamonds (& are NOT presented as such). The only people speaking at regionals are qualified diamonds.

    At leadership/ family reunion/ fed they are new platinums, rubies )all double eagles) emeralds or diamonds and above.

  493. September 13, 2018 1:35 pm

    STOP talking nonsense dude. You look completely silly. (well, actually stupid would be the more correct description).

    Duncans never fell out of qualifications (over 30 years). Tsurudas never fell out. Puryear never fell out. (Now Jim went from a qualified founders Ruby to inheriting a crown ambassador business. Sucks ,you know hah. What have you left for your kids? )

    Bakers were always Diamonds & EDC(& now their own son has passed them up as double diamonds. Don’t think that leg is falling out any time soon!). Think Trevor wants to trade places with your life now?

  494. September 13, 2018 1:57 pm

    Stop talking nonsense? You’re the one blindly defending them without knowing. Only Amway knows but they don’t say. Do you know how many Amway IBOs called me a liar when I posted information about the Greg Duncan bankruptcy? They kept insisting that I lied, even when his bankruptcy papers were available for public access online.

    Try this. Ask Matt Tsuruda how many of his original direct distributors are now platinums from 20 years ago or did he replace all of them like Harimoto had to. I guarantee you that some or all of them no longer exist in Amway.

    I tried to look up Dereck Chock, Harimoto’s sponsor and a direct distributor at one time. All that comes up is a guy with the same name who sells insurance. I bet he’s no longer in Amway even with a diamond downline. Try looking him up too.

  495. September 13, 2018 2:53 pm

    So? Who CARES?!! People quit the real estate business every day (*and most realtors do not make even $40,000 a year, let alone $40,000 a month). People quit the car business (& even the movie business too). So what’s your point??
    Ron Puryear sponsor in unheard of. And there is w girl (rx girlfriend) who sponsored Matt Tsuruda (what’s her name? Anybody know?)
    There are several people between Mike Woods and Toshi BeaTaba too (and whatever happened to tabas cousin? That was their sponsor).

    Is Kelly Rowe still active? And what about Terry and Fran Woodhead? Where is Severns sponsor?

    My sponsor went direct and THEN quit. What’s your point????!

  496. September 13, 2018 3:24 pm

    Platimums “falling out” is NOT “frequent”. You stay active in a leg until they’re at least 23,000 (and it’s not like it goes to ZERO. You get the 31% Ruby PV bonus volume on that. GENIUS. )

    (As of you have somehow gained access to some secret statistical records 🙄).

    Here’s some “platinums” (we don’t call them direct distributors anymore) which have NEVER “fallen out:. Severn. Woodhead. G& L Duncan, Bradley D, David & Darlene Duncan, Samir Atallah, Wolgamott, Shores, Kummer, Harimoto (he’s at Least A emerald or Ruby), Eaton, Anjiule, Ken & Dianne Cox, foglio, Radford, Carroll, (new diamonds downline from Joe and Norma) Pete and Rachel herschelman, his mom & dad Pete Herschelman (sponsor of Pete and Rachel), G & J Baker, T & L Baker, Head, Hawkins, Felber, Danzik, Tsuruda M& S, Tsuruda k& m, Tsuruda K & M, Yamamoto, Jim Puryear, B & L Compton, Brown, …
    Just to name a few…

  497. September 13, 2018 4:30 pm

    My point is if having a downline diamond is so valuable, why do people quit? Why do some diamonds quit or resign from Amway?

  498. September 13, 2018 4:31 pm

    As if YOU have some magical secret records from Amway. How do you know who’s fallen out of qualification or not?

  499. September 13, 2018 4:33 pm

    I believe Dave and Darlene Duncan were fake diamonds. They were made. Back then the diamonds could manipulate PV to create pins. At the family reunion I attended, Dave and Darlene barely had any downline at the function. Downline typically follow around their diamonds and they had nobody around.

  500. September 13, 2018 4:45 pm

    As Peewee Herman once said : “I DON’T KNOW!!!”. (none of my upline diamonds ever quit or lost a platinum leg. Heyyyy😎)

  501. September 13, 2018 4:59 pm

    Oh don’t even be stupid. They didn’t “make ” diamonds. Dave and Darlene had 6 directs (and the checks kept coming when he was in a coma)

  502. September 13, 2018 5:37 pm

    I be you are a (FAILED) fake 4000 PV from 20 years ago. Gimme a break. (& Give it a rest. You’re obsessed. !!)

  503. September 14, 2018 11:30 am

    That’s the Malachy Smith saying: “I don’t know”. You are like a parrot. You repeat what you hear.

    The checks kept coming. Yeah, go ahead and give us some evidence that it’s true? You don’t know. Only his family and Amway knows and they aren’t talking.

  504. September 14, 2018 11:31 am

    If I’m a failed 4000, then WWDB failed because I built it the way my upline taught and I had the recommended parameters for a WWDB Eagle.

    So what you’re saying is if you build it the way WWDB advises, you are a failure.

  505. September 14, 2018 11:39 am

    Yes, of course, I was parroting Pewwee (“geez you’re intelligent” – Brad Duncan)

    As for David, Greg said from stage that while his dad was in the hospital the checks kept coming. The kummers didn’t suddenly QUiT the business because their upline died.

  506. September 14, 2018 11:49 am

    And of course you believe everything Greg said. Isn’t that the guy who denied being in bankruptcy? Some people in WWDB believed him.

    Greg is the guy who said people who take out loans are stupid and later winded up taking out loans.

    But you take his word as the gospel truth.

  507. September 14, 2018 12:21 pm

    You’re the liar. . (” See? You’re a liar! . QUiT lying to yourself!”- Bradley D)

    It IMPOSIBLE to make LESS than $1800-1900 at “4000 PV” with ” eagle ” parameter.

    I just ran the model. You using 62 PV/ 3 products and 4 customers= 310 PV. (Did you forget the part about “300 PV circle”??

    With 6 bonus checks totalling just over 4000 PV I got $1912.89 in net profit. Ron Puryear himself said it’s only $3000-4000 a YEAR to be core (* and so did Mikewoods. He said (at 1500 PV) that MORE than pays for your sot and functions.

    You could spend “$1000 a month” on CDs as you claimed you did and STILL have hundreds of dollars Left over to put in your bank.

    QUiT lying.

  508. September 14, 2018 12:32 pm

    What I’m saying is you’re either liar or a fool. If you build it the way WWDB teaches at 4000 you take home over $1000 . I’ve heard the funcion hosts say that every time at rallies and I’ve run the numbers myself. $1912.89 in bonus check is a profit. Even if you reinvest $300-1000 for various business building expenses.

  509. September 14, 2018 2:25 pm

    Bradley D. Isn’t that the guy who said Amway/WWDB saves marriages? Isn’t he the hypocrite who got divorced? He’s also the guy who told people who quit their jobs to attend a function if the boss won’t let you go.

    You have the gall to call me a liar based on some hypothetical scenario you drew up on paper? You do know that not all of the conditions that existed back in my days may not apply to today right? Our group (WWDB) was taught to hyper consume tools and functions.
    More than likely because that’s how upline made a significant portion of their income.

  510. September 14, 2018 2:26 pm

    You are running numbers. Did you bother to look up what the ratio of PV to BV was back in 1996?

  511. September 14, 2018 2:35 pm

    Everything (as you should know) is always adjusted got inflation. (Even at 2500 I got a check net for over $400 in 1998. )

    (And, since things have CHANGED since 1996 all your “stats” and complaints are irrelevant. We now use digital download with unlimited streaming. To get someone a Samir Atallah rally I recently ordered a CD. Cost me $2.50. dude I could buy 100 CDs a month and not spend $300. And as I’ve just stated a 4000 business with 6 bonus checks would net over $1500 a month – even if you buy 100 CDs and get on Kate and go to functions.)

    Case closed. NEXT!!

  512. September 14, 2018 2:48 pm

    Yeah. Your products would have costs you and you customer less and the difference would have been maybe $500 at the most in your bonus checks. If you can’t manage a profit out of $1400 a month then you should not be running any business. (Wouldn’t want you handling my money or business)

  513. September 14, 2018 3:01 pm

    So doing what WWDB leaders leads you to conclude that I could not manage and run a business. You are saying WWDB is a failure.

    Oh, and were you mistaken or lying about calling me a liar? You didn’t have all the facts, just like most Amway people!

  514. September 14, 2018 3:45 pm

    . I’m saying YOU are a failure (& a liar). WWDB never taught anybody to spend $1000 on CDs. Some have even retired their wives on 4000 PV. WWDB teaches that should bring you home about $1000 a month.
    Again I just ran the model on the WWDB AP and it showed me $1912 in gross profit at 4000 PV with 6 bonus checks.

  515. September 14, 2018 4:22 pm

    You don’t have ANY facts (just like most people who talk about/ criticize amway but have never actually succeeded at it.)

    Let me know when they put you on stage and pay you an “, honorarium”. Expert.

    The only facts you’ve present on this entire stupid cluncky website is what’s a matter of public records concerning Mr Greg Duncan. (And he ONLY Made $40,000 a month. What a crappy business 😂😂😂😆😎. I’m sure he makes way more than that now. That was like a decade ago!)

  516. September 15, 2018 8:59 am

    Dude. Dude. STOP lying again! Bradley D NEVER got divorced! (Still married to his first wife Julie).

    And “WWDB” never taught anybody to “hyper consume tools”. Either your sponsor was an idiot or you misunderstood him and took ALOT out of context. Ron Puryear himself said it’s $300-400 a month to be core and that comes out of your first profits at 1000 PV. (Ron Puryear turned the first 15 nos into customers. He finded tapes and functions out of customers and his first PV checks. )

    Besides Bradley D got free in a year. Felbers got Linda free in 5 months. So you’re not supposed to Park at 4000 PV for a year anyway.

    (If you really did “what WWDB teaches” you’d a been 7500 in less than a year. Matt did it in 7 MOS. Ken did it in 12 months. Teresa did it in 4 months. None of them complaining about the cost of core or going to Portland for fed. They didn’t quit at 4000 either. 🤔. (Where is THAT in the true north tapes? )

  517. September 17, 2018 10:26 am

    I meant Brad Wolgamott. He got divorced after teaching that Amway/WWDB save marriages.

    You want facts? The average Amway IBO earns about $200 a month. But that’s after disregarding IBOs who are considered inactive. The real average income of all Amway IBOs is about $100 a month and that includes the diamonds and crown ambassadors.

    The average diamond makes about $150k per year including bonuses. The average Q12 diamond (which is rare) makes close to 600k per year.

  518. September 17, 2018 10:29 am

    I went 4000 in about 7 months. I quit because of several reasons. The main reason is because I wasn’t making the kind of money that was advertised. The second reason is because the WWDB upline was getting weird. Telling me I need to ask permission to date someone or to buy a new car. Is this a business or a cult?

    And what’s your reason? You’ve been at this for more than a year and you haven’t gone platinum. What’s your excuse?

  519. September 17, 2018 10:42 am

    Uhm. Wrong WRONG WRONG. Average diamond income is way more than $150,000 a year (* and most stay qualified all year after hitting it.)

    Here you go again with your silly suppositions. Diamonds make a minimum of about $9000 a month just off the 6% plus they got Ruby side volume that’s with around $7,000 a month (I’m not sure about your math skills but I’m pretty sure $16,000 a month would average more than $150,000 a year. But let’s say they only qualified since March. . $90,000 + $84,000 off their Ruby side volume is STILL more than $150,000. And you forgot the Q12 bonus of $10,000 and a couple trips worth over $10,000).

    Heck Kenji and Mildred made $165,000 at Ruby founder’s Ruby.
    Hey even Hawkins said at a dream night (they don’t call it “nightmare night”) recently that he made $177,000. That’s still tripple the average job income.

    So what exactly IS your point??

  520. September 17, 2018 10:52 am

    Well. 4000 is respectable enough progress in 7 Months. (now just imagine if you didn’t quit and HELPED 12 others go 4000. You ever done the math on that? That’s around 10% off 50,000 PV or about $12,000 BV. For helping 12 others make $1,000 a month. Those ARE THE numbers “advertised” in the sales and marketing plan. It’s a legal document. Duhhrrrr.)

    As for dating I don’t think anybody is going to require permissions. (Unless that subject of such dating is cross-lining then you’re messing with someone else’s business so be careful)

    As for major purchases like cars well, that’s what mentoring is for. To seek advice from someone who wants to help you to be successful.

    DUDE you’re just a quitter full of excuses and trying to justify your sour grapes here.

  521. September 17, 2018 10:57 am

    I don’t have any excuse. I’m not like you. I don’t blame WWDb or amway or my upline or anybody else.

    Distractions and lack of focus and consistency? Yes. I don’t blame anybody else for what I’ve done or failed to do.
    That’s the difference between me and you.

  522. September 17, 2018 11:07 am

    Why would I want to help 12 others go 4000 PV so they can make nothing? It’s clear that upline only wanted us to channel all of our disposable money into buying tools and functions because they profit from it.

    Amway is about buying and selling products and sponsoring others to build your empire. It’s that simple. There is no need for endless training and motivation that is the typical reason why people lose money in Amway.

  523. September 17, 2018 11:08 am

    You have no excuse? Good. So why aren’t you a diamond yet? What’s taking so long?

  524. September 17, 2018 11:12 am

    You you’re said the bonus checks was over $1000. And I just proved that, with 6 bonus checks that 4000 is $1912. Even adjusted for information that’s $1400 in 1996 PV/BV ratios.

    Besides. WWDB teaches to go platimum with 12 bonus checks so you weren’t EXACTLY doing everything that was taught.

  525. September 17, 2018 11:17 am

    You know, I ask myself that same question.
    Makes me mad. (So I’ll stay motivated and NEVER quit (*or stay QUiT, unlike you. Just thinking about where you could have been by now if you’d never QUiT. Must drive you crazy. )

  526. September 17, 2018 11:36 am

    Yeah my bonus check was over $1000. The upline diamond said it was to be reinvested into the business in the form of tool purchases. The upline diamond was a millionaire and knew the business well but if I wanted to do things my way, then oh well……….

    Where I could have been? I’m retired at a young age, I have a net worth well over a million bucks and I travel where I want and I’m enjoying life. I don’t have any regrets about Amway. In fact, quitting Amway was an improvement in my life.

  527. September 17, 2018 11:56 am

    So you say. “where’s your proof?”?

    (You could say anything here without anything to substantiate it. )

  528. September 17, 2018 11:58 am

    I’ve provided as much proof as you have about your diamond’s income and lifestyle claims.

  529. September 18, 2018 9:09 am

    Oh brother dude you’re pathetic (and your “public service” is a scam.

    The Federal Trade commission has already ruled that the AMWAY business model is a legitimate alternative to companies like Amazon that rely on billions of advertising dollars to get their name out.

    (Looks like you’re stuck in the 70s yup.)

    You might want to actually try posting FACTS (& not your ignorant out dated information and opinion)

  530. September 18, 2018 1:19 pm

    “””The Federal Trade commission has already ruled that the AMWAY business model is a legitimate alternative to companies like Amazon that rely on billions of advertising dollars to get their name out.”””

    Bull shiz. You are lying. The FTC ruling never said anything of the sort. The ruling only said Amway did not qualify as an illegal pyramid because of the 70% rule and the refund policies. If your groups are enforcing these and promoting “buy from yourself”, your group could be an illegal pyramid.

    YOU might want to use facts instead of ignorant statements.

  531. September 18, 2018 1:23 pm

    You might want to re-read the FTC ruling. Proves it’s No customers no bonuses. not a scam.
    And amway has ALWAYS had a customer rule. Was 10 customers now it’s 50 PV.

  532. September 18, 2018 4:08 pm

    I read the rules. Who is actually enforcing the rules?

  533. September 18, 2018 4:24 pm

    Amway. No customers volume? No PV check.
    (* & Seems you forgot or overlooked step #3 of “CORE”. WWDB has ALWAYS taught clients is part of CORE.) Ron Puryear had 15. How many did you have every month?

  534. September 19, 2018 9:03 am

    Did you miss my question? Who is enforcing the rules?

  535. September 19, 2018 9:07 am

    Did you read my response? I said Amway. No customers means only a PV check on yourself. No other bonuses.

  536. September 19, 2018 11:33 am

    Amway enforces this how? When I used to get prospected by Amway IBOs on facebook, they used to say it’s very easy to manipulate the website to avoid the retail requirement.

    Sort of like posting a speed limit sign that very few people follow.

  537. September 19, 2018 11:40 am

    Very simple. If you do not have registered clients and 50 PV then you don’t get paid.

  538. September 19, 2018 11:46 am

    And you wanna be sponsored by somebody with ZERO integrity? Those IBOs ‘prospecting” on Facebook are also breaking social media rules as well.

  539. September 19, 2018 11:47 am

    “young age”? What are you? 23? 30?

  540. September 19, 2018 3:36 pm

    You’re breaking Amway rules by making income and lifestyle claims as well.

  541. September 19, 2018 3:57 pm

    Another Amway comment:

    “”” struggle this is.”

    The white flag should have come at this point, but of course it didn’t.

    “””It took five years for me to reach the lowest point. I was so frustrated, and I went to a meeting where my Diamond was. I went on a walk with him, and I told him the whole thing wasn’t working. All I got from him was a pep talk.

    I tried to give myself a pep talk. But my wife pointed out that if I couldn’t make this work with all my effort and skills, did I really think Jose, the nice but average guy I was recruiting, could? Did I really believe that anybody could succeed with Amway?

    The answer was definitely no. And if Jose couldn’t do it, then I couldn’t honestly go out to people and say with integrity, “Anybody can do this.” The truth was that a few people could do this, most people couldn’t, and nobody knew the formula for sorting them out ahead of time.

    I realized it didn’t work, and for those higher up, it never really mattered whether it was working or not: the only thing that mattered was whether people were buying tapes and books.

    It was a breakage model. They would say that “We’re not successful until you are,” but it wasn’t really true. You sell picks and shovels to the gold miners, and you make money whether or not they do.

    For all intents and purposes, the only money to be made in Amway was selling tapes and books. The rest was a pretense, the world’s most inefficient means of distributing products and services that still actually functions.”””

    http://howtolosemoney.com/episodes/perry-marshall/

  542. September 19, 2018 4:00 pm

    What a negative whiney pissant you are. Wanna quit then quit (& while you’re at it QUiT complaining!! (No WONDER you’re a loser at amway. Nobody would ever want to get in business with you))

  543. September 21, 2018 12:15 pm

    Nope, I use my experience and knowledge to warn prospects. Actually, your use of insults and innuendos is just adding to my cause. I remain calm and collected while you rant and rave and insult me.

  544. September 21, 2018 12:41 pm

    You rant and rave over your failure 20 years ago.

    You only motivate me more.

    I’ll get back to you when I’ve made $2000 at 4000

  545. September 21, 2018 1:23 pm

    Yes, you represent Amway and IBOs well with your personal insults.

  546. September 21, 2018 1:39 pm

    I never insulted anybody. All I did was tell the truth!( Yes, I know the truth hurts doesn’t it? You yourself keep whining and b###ing about how you “lost” in wwdb ) Even though Amway paid you over $1000 just as “advertised”.

    Just think if you’d a used half of that for “tools” or whatever and then focused on others (instead of on yourself) and HELPED them to make $1000.

    You’re not “helping” anybody with this “service”. You’re attempting to steal and kill and destroy other’s dreams (* and my business by virtue of reputation destruction).

    “The dogs bark & the carvan keeps on moving”.

    Long after you’re dead my sons and daughters and grandchildren will enjoy a very large amway business.

    See you later nerd.

  547. September 21, 2018 2:39 pm

    BWAHAHAHAHA. You are repeating the same BS that upline told us when were IBOs.

    Nobody can steal your dream. You dream is an idea in your head.. What? Am I reaching into your head and taking the dream out of it.

    That’s some funny stuff. You should do stand up. Probably make more than doing Amway. 🙂

  548. September 21, 2018 5:34 pm

    You’re trying to fill people’s head with your negative nonsense and doubt. Even multimillionaire achievers like Will Smith & Grant Cardone will tell you about protecting your dreams and starving the doubt and negative.
    They all say to stay away.

    There are 3 kinds of people according to Walt Disney. You’re the well poisiner. As for me I’ll be an impactor.

    See ya later negative nerd.

  549. September 21, 2018 5:37 pm

    Hahahaha. (Don’t do stand up. You’re not funny and NOBODY would pay even 50¢ to see you and nobody CARES what you’d have to say anyway.well poisoner.

    Not “Joe Cool”.
    Joe poinsoner.

  550. September 24, 2018 1:12 pm

    Impactor? What impact do you have on anyone? You recruit people to become commssion only sales people for Amway. Other than most people losing money, what impact do you have on anyone?

  551. September 24, 2018 1:12 pm

    You think someone stating their opinion is stealing their dreams? SMH

  552. September 24, 2018 1:23 pm

    “”””Stacy and John Hanrahan of Springfield were the lead plaintiffs in the 1994 lawsuit in which they alleged that, as distributors, they lost money selling Amway products. They contended that their sales income didn’t cover the cost of motivational tapes that they were pressured to buy and the sales rallies they paid to attend.

    In fiscal 1995, Amway had retail sales of $6.3 billion through its network of independent distributors.

    The Hanrahans accused the company and two of its high-level distributors of luring Amway sales recruits with the promise of inflated earnings and of pressing them to buy company sales materials, which benefited the top dealers.

    The distributors named in the suit were William Britt, of Carson City, Nev., and Dexter Yager, of Charlotte, N.C.

    As part of the settlement, Britt and Yager agreed to put optional-purchase labels on motivational materials, and Amway said it would offer distributors a way to resolve disputes related to those materials. Amway also agreed to incorporate a statement in its distributor agreement affirming individual’s rights to religious and political independence.

    Craig Meurlin, senior vice president of Amway, said that the company does not push religious or political philosophies on distributors, but agreed to the provision because “the plaintiffs were concerned with the topic.”

    Amway and its codefendants will put $375,000 in to a fund for legal fees and costs. Two Philadelphia law firms represented the plaintiffs, Kohn, Swift & Graf and Conrad, O’brian, Gellman & Rohn.””””

    https://www.cs.cmu.edu/~dst/Amway/AUS/hanrahan.htm

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