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Diamonds Are(n’t) Forever?

July 20, 2008

January 6, 2012: Updated information on Carole Holiday here. Her son won for her $77,400 on ABC’s You Deserve It. They made no mention of her former life as an Amway Diamond.

It’s a common theme across many Amway Motivational Organizations (AMO). During Major Functions, Diamonds speak of having lifetime, will-able, residual income through the Amway/Quixtar opportunity. Reach Diamond, and you can have the lifestyle that you’ve always dreamed of. If this is the case, why are a number of INA Diamonds working jobs again?

I learned about the current career status of some INA Diamonds in the following Quixtar Forums thread:

Dan Boettcher–Real Estate http://www.johnlscott.com/agentdetail.aspx?ic=3450060

Dave Lovett–Generic MLM Training http://www.davelovett.com/

Craig and Carole Holiday–Cooking Classes http://www.ourhousesouthcounty.com/

Tim and Lisa Leets–Children’s Clothing and Toys http://www.bearsandbuddies.com/

Rich Batista–Real Estate and Loans http://www.priority1stmortgage.com/html/rich_batista.html

Jeff Applebaum–Comedian http://www.jeffapplebaum.com/

These Diamonds may very well be doing exactly what they want to be doing. I wonder if they are still building their Amway business in addition to their new careers. If the answer is no, why did they get out of an opportunity that purports to be the perfect business in favor of something more traditional?

And this is just in INA. What about the Diamonds in BWW, N21, or WWDB? Are Diamonds forever in those AMOs? According to the Amagram, there are many stories of Diamonds who have left the business for one reason or another.

The percentage of IBOs who become Diamond is very low, less than one percent. With these examples, it follows that the percentage of who stay Diamonds is under 100%. Multiply these percentages together to get your chances of becoming a Diamond who stays a qualified Diamond. Pretty low, eh? This doesn’t sound like lifetime, will-able, residual income to me, does it to you?

Thus, for an prospect looking at the business or an IBO who’s been trying hard for years to go Diamond, a question: Does the promise of becoming a Diamond equal the reality of being one?

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25 Comments leave one →
  1. Mike permalink
    July 21, 2008 3:04 am

    I agree that if being diamond is the purpose of the business and that it should provide a “job-less” lifestyle then those at that level need not have a “real” job.

    However, if someone at that level wanted to do something else (in addition to being a diamond), then they should be able. Where that job would be more or less a hobby, something they enjoy doing, then so be it.

    But from what you state, it seems that most of the diamonds are no longer diamonds, but working a job instead.

  2. July 21, 2008 9:08 am

    The purpose of this post was not to commit these Diamonds to a lifetime of doing nothing but the business, but to criticize them on what they promoted (and may continue to promote) on stage to the IBO masses.

    As I wrote, these former INA Diamonds may be doing exactly what they want to be doing now, and that’s fine.* Yet, if they proclaim on stage that, “This is the best business opportunity in the world! IN THE WORLD!” (source: Dateline 2004) they are left with little wriggle room. If it’s the best, why would they leave to do something different?

    Remember, people are listening to what they are preaching.

    At the point when IBOs take on a leadership role within the business — say around the Emerald or Diamond level — they have a responsibility to their group and everyone to whom they speak at meetings, Opens, Major Functions, and on tape. This responsibilty is to present the opportunity in a legal, ethical, open, and straightforward manner.** After all, what they say and teach gets pushed down through the System to the guy who’s just getting started.

    The Diamonds and AMOs have failed miserably in this regard, and their actions have hurt a great deal of people financially and emotionally over the years.

    * From hearing him on stage, Applebaum is much more effective, funny and better off as a comedian than a Diamond. That said, I’ve seen him in recent INA photo galleries, so I would think he’s still active in the business to some degree. If so, I’m curious to see how he promotes the business today compared with his Diamond colleagues in INA.

    ** I am certain that there are some high-level pins who have gotten to their levels in this manner. I would venture to say, however, that their percentage is relatively low.

  3. July 22, 2008 4:49 pm

    Here’s another person’s thoughts on how Applebaum is a funny guy. This was written in 2004.

  4. July 23, 2008 1:03 pm

    The reason the Diamonds are now working is because they aren’t Diamonds any longer, and even their tool scam money can’t cover up the deceit.

  5. Rick permalink
    January 14, 2009 5:24 pm

    What a bunch of sour grapes. You are exactly the kind of people that would never accomplish anything worth while or that involved commitment and risk. It is upsetting to me how some people take pride is the possible failure of another persons efforts. Do any of you think for one minute success is easy or guaranteed for life in any business. Life has many roads. At least these folks went down that road while many just sit on the side and criticize there every turn. Shame on the lot of you for diminishing the achievements and sacrifices of those that at least dared to live.

  6. January 14, 2009 8:53 pm

    Rick – I’m being critical of the message that’s being taught from stage, not necessarily the former-Diamonds. Inaccurate and outrageous claims only serve to create false hope for those in the crowd, who continue to chase a dream that will likely never come.

  7. IBO permalink
    June 24, 2009 12:12 pm

    Anything worth doing is going to be hard. Other people who don’t give it there all and quit, DO NOT need to be spreading negative and toxic RUMORS and making it harder for the people who are out there. I happen to know for a fact that the diamonds listed are just running those business for fun. Jeff Applebaum has flat out said that he enjoys show biz and does it for fun. As have the other diamonds. This business works for the people who work it!

  8. rlaurens permalink
    July 17, 2009 1:56 pm

    “Anything worth doing is going to be hard”

    Yeah, but not everything that’s hard is worth doing.

    “This business works for the people who work it!”

    Another meaningless jargon. Other businesses could work twice as good for half the work.

  9. thaddeus permalink
    September 22, 2010 3:55 pm

    “Other people who don’t give it there all and quit, DO NOT need to be spreading negative and toxic RUMORS and making it harder for the people who are out there.”

    But I bet they know the difference between there, their and they’re…….just saying.

  10. bill johnson permalink
    January 5, 2012 11:10 pm

    Carole Holiday was just on the show “you deserve it ” 12.26.11 Her son K. C. won some $75,000 because Carole was broke, divorced and needed heart medical attention. No mention on the show of her past life style as a diamond

  11. Speak Your Truth permalink
    January 6, 2012 8:32 am

    How sad..No such thing as a passive, residual, on-going, willable business that they trick people with.

  12. webelieved permalink
    January 6, 2012 10:40 am

    Funny how mlm (recruiting pyramid scheme) supporters never mention the people who are stolen from by their uplines, slandered by their uplines, the people whose businesses are destroyed by their uplines, the fact that distributors doesn’t own squat in any mlm and the company can take their teams, income and so called business whenever they want and then if you want to sue them they will you into confidential arbitration to shut you up! They never mention that most leaders make the majority of the income they seduce you you with, from their tool business! (my experience with Team). They never mention all of that when they recruit you, in fact they decieve recruits into believing income is residual, that it is your own business and that the big money comes from the product company. ALL LIES to make the upline more money! So sad.

  13. January 6, 2012 11:11 am

    Here’s a link to the follow-up post on Carole Holiday winning (via her son) $77,400 on ABC game show You Deserve It. They never mention the two decade career in Amway, earning $1M/year (according to her former husband’s website).

  14. Corey permalink
    February 12, 2012 6:21 pm

    I find it quite interesting to see such a post. Oddly enough, I just got back from Portland, OR and was fortunate enough to meet a few diamonds who are part of Team INA, one of the best organizations associated with Amway. Jeff and Johanna Applebaum were some of the featured speakers at the event hosted at the New Beginnings building in Portland. Jeff’s passion lies in comedy and, with the income received by Amway and INA, he is able to pursue what he loves. If I am not mistaken, he will be attending a comedy club in the Tacoma area and, if anyone is truly curious about hearing the facts as opposed to trusting some ridiculous post found via Google, perhaps they can ask him themselves, eh?

    There are plenty of people who slander Amway, though most of those people (I find) are the ones who: (a) Tried and could not make the business work (usually due to their inability to follow the system); (b) Are content living their lives trading time for dollars and making someone else wealthy; (c) Are paid to write such silly thing or; (d) Are merely a part of the 95% of the population, collectively controlling 5% of the wealth.

    Now, riddle me this: Why would someone trust the financial advice from someone whom which has a 95% chance of being on the side of the poor? I am not saying it is bad to have such a mindset, however, I truly do wish more people became properly versed on such matters before speaking with little to no true knowledge on any given subject. Amway is endorsed by Robert Kiyosaki, Donald Trump and many others. These people receive no payments for their words of praise. Robert Kiyosaki is a renowned investor and best-selling author of the book “Rich Dad, Poor Dad” as well as “Cashflow Quadrant” and “Business of the 21st Century”. If doubts still remain in the minds of anyone, please, feel free to look into the facts for yourselves before trusting the words of one whom which knows and, surely, understands: nothing (of this matter, at least).

    If anyone has questions, rather than uninformed opinions, I would be delighted to answer them to my best of abilities. It has been my pleasure. I hope this begins to set the record straight, for some. Find your vehicle, whatever it may to, to financial freedom, so as to allow yourself and your loved ones to pursue the dreams you have, though may not be able to fully realize; yet! Cheers!

  15. Vogel permalink
    February 13, 2012 12:06 am

    Wow! This one must have just emerged from the MLM brain zapping machine.

  16. Brent Hansen permalink
    February 13, 2012 5:26 am

    Corey,
    It is quite obvious to me that perhaps you are the one who should be asking the questions. I built an A/Q business for over a 12 years, and reached a rank that less than 1% are able to. Are you currently building A? What is your current rank, and how much are you grossing per month? Lets stick with the facts here, not the regurgitated MLM rhetoric that you have posted. Vogel is correct you sound silly.

    Why don’t you start by reviewing this website, and learning the truth which has been formulated with around 20 years of dedicated research. Read through this site, ponder on it, then come back and lets have a real discussion.

    Put the pride aside and learn, perhaps you are the one who is uninformed.
    http://mlm-thetruth.com/

  17. Mike Collins permalink
    February 13, 2012 6:13 am

    Corey: Robert Kiyosaki is whoring himsef out to the industry so he can sell books. And Donald Trump? He is wealthy no doubt about that. Taking his advice about making money in MLM is an entirely different matter.

    Seriously though, what is your rank and how many people are in your organization? I’ll bet it’s less than 10. You have done a good job of memorizing the rhetoric though. Bring your facts and let’s have some dialogue buddy. Perhaps the truth can set one of us free…….

  18. Speak Your Truth permalink
    February 13, 2012 6:43 am

    Corey says:

    “Now, riddle me this: Why would someone trust the financial advice from someone whom which has a 95% chance of being on the side of the poor?”

    Well that is exactlly why we won’t “trust” your advice. I hope you didn’t expect anyone to take your “poor 95% advice.” Please do your “due diligence” and study your odds then you could “properly verse” and “riddle”.. us all! Haha!

    Come back in “2-5 Yrs” we will help you “zap your brain” back to reality! “Trust” us you will need us then!

    Prehaps you would like to “vote” for Orrin so he can be a guru like you…haha! 🙂

  19. SOF permalink
    June 5, 2012 3:08 am

    To be honest I think you guys are taking yourselves way too seriously. Find what works for you and stop hating on other people because of where you may be lacking. Everyone is lacking in some area or another. I respect those who are able to recognize their strengths and weaknesses for what they are and address them; that is what leadership is about. It’s not putting someone else down or making accusations and assumptions at someone elses expense while taking the focus off of you.

    A couple of you started out with some valid arguments and key points even though I disagreed with several. I could respect your views though. Where you began to lose credibility with me was when you started responding right away with more pride than what you accused the user Corey of having as I continued reading. Not that my approval means squat to you and not that your approval means squat to me. That’s just my own assessment of your communication. While your approval might not mean squat I always value direct communication and valid opinion.

    I happen to agree more with what Corey had to say. In fact I just had a conversation with Jeff Applebaum two days ago and I could verify some of these questions you have just by being a witness not only to his presentation but by the character of the man after having had some real one on one discussion with him about not only business but family and real life. In fact, being the direct communicator that I am I addressed concerns I had with the “Scam Tools” as you put it the and system.

    I didn’t blurt out as has been done here essentially saying your guilty until proven innocent. Man to man with honor, integrity and personal courage – I addressed him with any concerns. We talked humbly. As far as the facts you might be looking for and stats – I agree; do your diligence and go to a performance or business meeting and ask him yourself face to face. His contact info is not hard to find along with any of these other members of Team INA that you speculate openly about without the respect of validating many of your comments. There is a fine line between voicing an opinion and making an accusation.

    All of the Diamonds, Platinums, Emeralds, 1500s, 600s to even brand spanking new members have some of the most honorable and righteous characters I have ever been around. That is something I value and I have worn a uniform for the last nearly 16 years of my life as an Infantryman. Character to the person on your left and right means a great deal to me. It is not something I take lightly.

    I respect the fact that we all have opinions but when a direct response is given which is well articulated and it receives responses that attack minor grammatical errors instead of content of discussion or stuff like:

    “Wow! This one must have just emerged from the MLM brain zapping machine.”

    It shows me that there is a lack of maturity and respect by the responder as well as the ability of maintaining enough self-control to reply with something slightly more intelligent than what a highscool freshman might say. Get a hold of yourself.

    Stop asking people what they make and about their credibility and paycheck when all you have said is you have run this biz and that biz and mlm truth says blah, blah blahzay blah. You haven’t said anything substantial yourself other than referring us to someone elses website then accusing those in opposition of not giving they’re…excuse me their, own account based on personal experience. What about all of you critics’ vast amount of experience and expertise? Why aren’t we reading about that?

    If you’re going to tell somebody to validate with credentials, how about doing it first especially since you’re the one sparking up the main controversy in the first place.

    Bottom line – find what works for you, you do you, let others do their thing and don’t just be a complainer. If you are going to use your voice, how about solutions and some substance to what your saying along with valid ideas and concerns. How about helping somebody instead of just telling them they are a lamb for the slaughter. Now there’s an idea…help someone.

    To contend with your statement about peoples lives being ruined – I have seen a countless number of people’s lives changed who didn’t become Diamonds or millionaires. The real value came not from the few hundred bucks they made before deciding to move on but from the new sense of self worth or faith they found through organizations such as INA that teach personal development.

    If you cant do that then you run the potential of just sounding like your whining or being some kind of blog post lawyer. I value a good debate or discussion any day but whining and murmuring needs to go somewhere and get a life. And if you are truly as versed and experienced as you say then I would expect more from most of the responses I have seen here.

    Thanks for giving me something to occupy some time while I sit here on the night shift.

    I may have just wasted several hundred words worth of my time and mental energy here but it is what it is.

    Abundant Regards,

    SOF

  20. chrisyurhee permalink
    May 30, 2017 7:43 am

    Not surprised at all by the number of diamonds going back to work. Many already had by the last time I saw them in the 90s. I was there when the Leets went direct, Emerald, and Diamond. My sponsor was sponsored by them, and as a single college student going direct, I got more than my share of attention from the Robinsons on down. I had to leave the business when my dad got sick, but the writing was on the wall by then.
    When Tim told me they were opening a retail store, I giggled inside. Just jump straight into the fire, skip the pan… LOL.
    After INA split, everything seemed to be falling apart. I guess there have been MANY divorces, scandals, and other things that have happened since then.
    The late 80s were wonderful. The people in my upline even better.
    The business? Not so hot anymore.
    As Dan Robinson told me; “I get grossly overpaid for drawing circles, and grossly underpaid for keeping a smile on my face.” He was a decent man, as were many, many others in INA.
    I hope my old friends are all well, and especially that Jeanette is well.
    She was an angel on earth.

  21. June 20, 2017 11:46 am

    The way business was done changed as the economy shifted to mega retail stores/ clubs. Online shopping and computers also greatly effected the margin Amway had to work with. You seem bitter to be so negative and hurtful toward peoples lives and hard work. Business is always a risk. Many things change over time. Even major retail stores are moving toward online shopping to be competitive. I saw many great people during my time with Amway. We sponsored over a hundred people. If business models had stayed the same who is to say. They did not. Not a reflection on any improprity or unsound practices. Just a very large paradigm shift in the way business was done. I knew many of the people you mentioned. All very hard working. Some saw the shift coming and planned for the future. I wish them all the very best and great success.

  22. chrisyurhee permalink
    August 14, 2017 7:28 pm

    Bitter? Yes, a bit. When you get up to direct (GOLD DD) you become privy to a lot of things that the average distributor doesn’t know about. Most of the income comes from tapes and seminars. When they cut that (only emeralds and above got it in INA) it was the epiphany for me.
    I had to leave the business earlier than I would have because I had to take over the family construction company (dad’s third heart attack). Once the rose-colored glasses were off, it was very easy to see.
    I learned a lot, but not all of it was positive. Once you are behind the curtain, you see things that no one else does. Until you have spent time there, you will never understand.

Trackbacks

  1. Joecool: Show Me The Money « Amthrax
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  3. “You Deserve It” With Former Amway Diamond Carole Holiday « AMTHRAX

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