Search Engine Terms of the Week: Scams, Scams, and more Scams
May 28, 2012
Well that didn’t take too long. It’s been a month after the official launch of TEAM/LIFE’s Mental Fitness Challenge (MFC), and I am already receiving search engine hits to my site with the following terms:
- mental fitness challenge scam
- mental fitness challenge is a scam
- is the mental fitness challenge a money scam
- 90 mental challenge scam
- mental fitness challenge a scam?
Add those terms to the ever-growing list of similar ones that I receive on a weekly basis:
- orrin woodward scam
- team life business scam
- team life scam
- is team life a scam
- orrin woodward life scam
- is orrin woodward and chris brady’s team and life networking a scam
- “the-life-business” orrin woodward scam
- chris brady scam
- the-life-business scam
- life by monavie a scam
- the life business scam
- claude hamilton team scam
- life by monavie a scam?
- life orrin woodward scam
- living intentionally for excellence scam
- life team scam
- how to become a life coach scam artist cult leader
- is team life the biz a scam?
- orin woodward life scam
- team life mlm scam
Those people performing these searches no doubt have their Spidey-sense tingling after hearing about the mental fitness challenge, Orrin Woodward, LIFE, and/or TEAM. It behooves them to read up on MFC, learn about the past history of the company and its directors, and see what former TEAM/LIFE members have to say about the business. Prospects should also have questions ready to pose to their future “mentors” about this business opportunity.
AMTHRAX 
So sad. Thank God above that some are not ignoring their sixth sense, & looking more into it. The question I ponder every day is.. is there ever going to be a day when these evil MLM companies are brought to their knees? It just seems that day after day they keep getting away with it. Thank God for this group is all I can say. My friend that disowned me 6 months ago is still going strong with his his mission to promote LIEF & of course now their sorry excuse of a workout plan. Wow… he must really think his ships going to come in someday, because I would find it hard to believe that he’s making anything more than a grand a month, if that. I guess the saying is true that they can’t see the forest from the trees.
Wirlwind, if he is making a grand a month, he’s probably putting most if not all into his tools and other expenses related to TEAM.
As for the search results I am bombarded with results like “Is TEAM a Scam?” and “Is LIFE a scam?” etc only to click on those links to be another pro-TEAM blogger with an article. Those guys are pretty oily. Got all the key words in their titles and everything. Can’t win.
I know a fellow personally who has done pretty well and is one of the top leaders, knows Brady and Orrin and tells me they are good guys, etc. I, on the other hand, know their techniques and how awful MLMs are – how they get you into a sort of “group think” state. I recently wrote him this note after he asked me to come to an award ceremony where he and his wife were going to be honored (I am acquainted with them both as church going people, but not at my church). I have written (husband) and (wife) where I had originally put their actual names in the below email:
– – –
(Husband):
I am delighted that you have been selected for a great achievement, but as we have discussed, I really have no desire to attend any LIFE/TEAM meetings or ceremonies at all, generally (as you know) because I don’t believe in the marketing concept and the hyperbole. I am most concerned that you have a good “grounding” with other organizations and efforts beyond LIFE/TEAM… such as your church, your son’s soccer (or whatever activities your children are involved in), etc. You may very well be changing many peoples’ lives for the better because you care about them and spend time with them and they respect you as a person who would care about them and give them the shirt off your back to help them out – this opposed to being a hawker of LIFE/TEAM goods and services.
I know a lot of people who have gotten involved with MLM organizations and I am concerned about anyone who takes every conversation, every occasional meeting, every stranger on a plane, etc. as a prospect for a product which he/she is convinced will help that person (even though they don’t even know them) and in fact, they are merely following a zombie-like routine and using techniques to keep this chatter going until they wear the victim down into some sort of submission. I’m not saying that this is YOU (Husband)… I’m just saying that I’ve seen it so many times that it makes me sick to my stomach – sick for the victims of such tactics and hyperbole and hope and dreams. Most of them end up being road kill – perhaps the “hawker” might say that it is because they didn’t keep up the work. I believe, rather, that this is because this type of system only works for the manufacturer of the products and for the top people who make money NOT so much on product sales that they personally do, but mostly by finding people who find people who find people… and who, at least temporarily (because of a “hope” that the product can actually make them money) sell some of said product, enough to delight their upstream (again… temporarily) until said victim bails out with a “lessons learned” certificate and a strong desire to stay as far away from such schemes as possible.
I can’t really say it more clearly, (Husband). Every time I say a word like “schemes” you say words like “So are you saying you think I am a schemer?” and the techniques just keep going on….
Bottom line – I hope you and (Wife) don’t get burned because you are “good people” who just happen to be in what I consider a “bad business” (and please don’t take this comment to encourage you to help me find out all about the business because then surely I will know it is not bad, etc. etc.). I hope that you are recognized in organizations and magazines that are neither LIFE/TEAM nor wonderful web creations made up by LIFE/TEAM, etc. etc. I hope that actually you get recognized by recognizable legitimate magazines and articles where people see the value and the brilliance of how your company works. If/When that happens please let me know.
By the way – I haven’t yet – but hope to see you in venues that are NOT LIFE/TEAM at some point in time … I’m not talking about a marriage session held “at” a church that is really a LIFE/TEAM thing… I’m talking about a church gathering … a picnic… something where people know (Husband) as a good parishioner who gives to the people and the church and not as “that guy that’s always trying to get folks to buy stuff” type-person (again… not saying you are doing that… I’d just like to prove to myself that you, in fact, have “a life” beyond “LIFE”.
Love in Christ
Love (me) – your potential “enemy”
Consider my words.
Mike Bickel
Mike~
Thanks! I have to agree with Webelieved…You have got them pegged…not a nice way to trick you to the ‘major’ or ‘seminar’ where they have ‘recognition.’ Actually a pretty slimy and unethical way to invite.
The recognition boils down to the ‘numbers’ of people you brought to the ‘seminar’ so by you going it would ‘add’ a ticket to your friends ‘numbers’ which in turn equates to more money in the RT/PC (mostly PC or the TOP 7 guys pockets @ $125 per ticket (major) or I believe it is now $30 per ticket (monthly seminar). So either your friend would have told you to buy a ticket or he would have bought it for you. Certainly it isn’t FREE or some kind of ‘award’ ceremony and it seems your friend implied.
Sadly, it represents how many they manipulate (whatever it takes to get others there). They will use manipulation techniques like what your friend did. They mostly use techniques based on what they know your personality type is and then manipulate and play on that.
It sounds like you already know the techniques or how they ‘work’ and I agree, from years of experience and reading sites like this and Lazyman/Juicescam, it only takes the ability to read to SEE the “defenders” all ‘use’ the same techniques, clichĆ©s, stop thinking techniques, cult jargon, rhetoric and is very obvious it doesn’t matter what MLM you come from they are so much alike and mostly can only be differentiated by their Name…Have you been a part of MLM and that is why you know the techniques?
Welcome to the site and thanks a ton for sharing that letter it is very direct, truthful and done with love. It displays and a great example for others to see, how true friends who sincerely care about their friends, can tell them the truth in love and stand their ground.
You know how the MLM’s suck every ounce of someone’s time, (money) and life out of others and their families. It is a direct contradiction to the MLM lies and deception they tell others…”YOU will get ALL your time back.” That is the furthest thing from the Truth!
@Speakyourtruth and @webelieved: No, I’ve never been part of anyone’s downstream but I’m a numbers guy – actually and Engineer and now the CIO of my company. I’ve lived long enough and have known enough people and have seen many of them make this rather disastrous step of stupidity. And then, of course, they encouraged me to join them at some meetings. Because I’m loyal to my friends I told them that what they were doing was really a pyramid scheme that was legal due to a loop-hole having to do with providing a product, but that I would go with them provided that they understood that while I’d be cordial with anyone I met there, my reason for going was with an eye toward keeping them from doing something that would hurt their family. I’ve never lost a friendship this way and while many of them drank the kool-aid for a while, they realized that they were being sucked in. One was an AMWAY guy, one was selling air filters, another was selling makeup, another was selling health food, and, of course, this last one was not really a friend of mine but rather started chatting me up when we were on a soccer field – him watching his son play and me tending to my grandson. I was reading a Bible while also watching the practice and he was all about linking me in to the LIFE/TEAM Faith / religious stuff. I believe that he saw me as an easy mark, but actually, I think he’s an easy mark for me as I’ve seen this stuff so often, I am sort of innoculated to it and my approach is all about trying to make them see the techniques and the brain washing that goes on. I feel like an apostle or something that desperately needs to get out the repentance word. I guess that’s why I think AMTRAX is doing God’s work. I told this last one (whose name I have withheld) that it will all (and very soon) start coming down on his family and I told him that when that happened, I’d be there for him… not clapping my hands about it, but I’d try to see if I could help him find a real job as he does have skills and I’m worried about his kids, especially with his wife so heavily invested in this thing too. It’s really a more evil cult than I had ever really seen before… all the same techniques and hopes for richness… but in this particular one, they are using God’s name and professing to be faithful people at the same time. When I was at a breakfast with “he who must not be named”, I used a few passages out of my Bible to have him consider. I believe one was Habbakuk 2:9-11 “Woe to him who builds his realm by unjust gain…. etc.” I’m praying for him and have told him his “house will fall down” shortly unless he abandons this very ungodly way of behaving, but I’m afraid he’s headed for the cliff. I’ll report back later on what ends up happening.
Well – thank you so much for your comments. Clearly this was meant to be. Do any of you twitter? My handle is OJALA485 in case you want to see what I look like and see what I write.
Mike~
I loved your post @ 10:52, you really have this figured out and a will be a great asset to anyone who you help before and after they get dumped, deserted, devastated, and disregarded like a piece of trash and or find themselves rock bottom financially because of any MLM they get sucked into. Our experience has been with Orrin/PC when With Amway- Team of Destiny, then Quixtar- Team, then Monavie-Team, and now they still call it Team and LIEf. Same old thought reform system,(plagarized from Dexter Yager in Amway) with the same old PC and some of their minions… and the name changes (pluar) were not changed to protect the innocent but rather to hide the TRUTH on the internet! It is no secret to those who knew orrin did this for that very reason.
The real leaders either got forced out with their mafia-style tactics, destructing & stealing teams and income, I know of one probably more got “voted out” after they came up with ‘new’ contract (see the LIEf P&P) let us know how your company compares to their P&P’s, HA! Some very foolish people would like others to be in denial and dellusional with them and believe their P&P is OK and would be normal opperating proceedures in all companies. But I think they meant to say all MLM pyramid schemes…ha.
Good Luck with all those you help!!! Hope you continue to update and comment. Thanks š
great post Speak!!!
Finally I find a way past all of the slick search engine traps to a blog actually talking about the TEAM for what it is! I have a LOT of family currently involved in the team, and I am having serious trouble watching them slip deeper and deeper and watching them spend their money on what is so clearly a scam. They all think that I am just trying to call them stupid because I’m the only one who has gone to college, but I’m really concerned that they are blowing serious money on this thing. I cannot find a way to reach them on this issue, because every time I try they accuse me of just not understanding how TEAM works and how its just been so great for their lives. I am watching their lives, and it looks awful.
@Adam – Glad that you found this blog. TEAM/LIFE is very good at flooding the search engines to push legitimate websites critical of the business down in the results list. I hope you’ve found some good information here that will help break through to your family members. Good luck!
@ webelieved Thanks for the advice, I’m at a loss at this point so any new direction is worth trying. I have watched, most specifically, one of my family members, who I will not actually identify, drift away from family and even church. This person was very involved in church, and was always a family first person, and dedicated to their work as well. Now, they take long periods of time away for trips to TEAM events. They seem to only want to spend time talking to TEAM people, or convincing others that TEAM is the only real truth (which is one of the scarier aspects), all while belittling any one who is a part of the system. Worst of all this person has nearly destroyed their marriage, and is jeopardizing the future of their spouse.
This Blog is one of the best locations I’ve found with information about the behind the scenes of TEAM, along with Lazy Man and Money, and a couple of others. Keep up the good work. And use the words Orrin Woordward more.
Side Note: I wrote the following “You are a fraud. (I wonder how long this will stay up?)” on the Orrin Woodward Facebook page. It was deleted within 10 minutes, and I was no longer able to leave comments. They are more than just a simple scam, these people are genuine con artists, and extraordinarily good at it.
Adam~
Welcome to the site and I am glad you found this site and I with you… it is one of the best, if not the best for the inside workings of orrin woodward, the pc and others. š
Thanks for sharing that about your family member (we know it isn’t easy) but you have just described the process (many on here have went through) of what happens to a person going through being controlled in a thought reform cult. Read the books webelieved recommended, go to websites and learn all you can about thought reform, undue influence, brainwashing etc…it will benefit you with your family and give you understanding on how to handle them.
That process you described where people begin to adopt the ‘group think’, rely on their upline but it really comes from orrin woodward and the pc down, to make all their decisions, bombard them with ‘messages’ of us vs them; anyone who doesn’t believe exactly the way they do become their ‘enemies’ trying to steal their supposed success and dreams and their odds of ever getting it through there is next to zero.
Their messages are subtle and repeated thousands of times to weaken the mind and eventually get you to believe and submit (brainwashing) to what they say and adopt their beliefs. They are blantant and they lead people to isolate themselves from the real world, family, friends, hobbies, churches they ignore family,friends, spouses, pastors anyone outside of ‘them’…it does seem scary and even more disturbing is the person being controlled will become arrogant and some viciously defend them they don’t even recognize they are doing it because they are ‘told’ over and over to expect resistance and rejection people are trying to “steal your dream” etc..they continue with you must become toughed skinned. Anyone who doesn’t agree with them are broke losers who want to work for a boss the rest of their lives and have no purpose and on and on!
It is quite disturbing and it causes much strain on marriages, (as you mention) and taxes relationships, faith, finances to the max and in many cases bankruptcies before they wake up and realize they have hit bottom and then realize they have been scammed. Hopefully, that won’t be the case for your family.
The Bright side (not without much pain and regret) the brainwashing wears off when you remove yourself from the ‘system and environment’ completely. The longer you are in the longer it takes to flush their thought control (system and ideology) from your mind. I wish you and your family the best and know there are many on here to give you support. You are not alone! š
Your side note…Is the BEST..hahaha! Thanks for the laughs!! It is the truth….and thanks for your entire post for speaking the truth!!
Adam:
The only reason TEAM still exists is because they’ve hired MLM Lawyers to protect their “business” from FTC scrutiny AND to keep them off their backs. That is the TRUTH.
http://www.businessforhome.org/2011/12/kevin-thompson-top-mlm-lawyer-interview/
Adam- You are good people. Thanks for coming on here and sharing and I pray that your family members would get the help that they needed so they could get out of the cult. God bless you.
Webelieved~
Excellent posts! It has become so crystal clear the behavior and control mechanisims they use and convince the masses they ‘aren’t good enough’ without them or their supposed guru wisdom and continue to pillage the masses finances to help them and their ‘well-being’?
Lets see them Remove the ‘money’ and become non-profit (strickly non-profit)… stopping collecting off the masses they only ‘care’ for right up til they take a ‘member’ decides to take a different direction and quit paying them (figure out they are being scammed by a bunch of greedy cons) and lets see how long any of them continue on with their noble ’cause’; Their top priority and ‘purpose’ (don’t forget they aren’t about the “money but won’t give any of the money back”, ( then the crowd laughs & applauds)…because remember it is NOT about the MONEY it is to get the ‘correct’ information to all those broken souls so they can ‘change the world’ one person at a time?
Hypocrites.
@ Adam: If I can help your family in any way to undersatand the psycological effects of the lies behind this scam please let me know. michaelseancollins@gmail.com
Ok everyone – this is Mike again. I left a post on May 31st showing my email to a TEAM member that I was concerned about. Since ADAM is being so brave about helping to “out” these folks, I thought I’d show you the answer that I got from the person I wrote – in my post I showed only “Husband” and “Wife”. This time I am putting his response to my email here with his name so you will know, in case you know him personally (he’s a St. Louis person). Here’s his response to my note that I tried to do as carefully, honestly and lovingly. I think you will see the TEAM’s tactics in his response to me. Keep in mind that he really doesn’t know anything about me. I’ve done no spelling correction so it is as I received it:
– – –
Mike be concerned about your own household not mine. It is prideful for you to think God made you the protector of me. If he is God he is very capable of leading me to the right discisions. I’m confident he did not assign you to be my protector. Although I sure appreciate your concern. I’d like to see you make a difference in other peoples lives. Influence is measurable. Ask yourself “is the man i am really makeong deciples of anyone?” Your efforts have no influence with me, not because I’m not intelligent. Not because life/team influences me. Your assumptions about that influence in my life is ridiculous. I’ve been reading 4-5 books a month not by Orrin or chris but by John maxwell, John wood, Steven covey, Jim Collins, ken ham, steven davy and tom ascol and so on. I emailed you lots of the pictures. Them men in these books are the ones im workin on becomming (not to leave the bible and christ out of it). You are not the man im trying to be like. These are the people who influence me. People whose accomplishments God has blessed. The bible says you will know them by their fruit. I see no friut on your tree. I see no reason to stop letting those influences in my life and let you who has not to my knowledges accomplished anything that I want. In addition, I just don’t like the way you treat people and see a lot of unbiblical activity and assumptions. In addition, you really have nothing to offer me because I only allow people to influence me who have the results I want. I’d bet you have very little influence with your spouse. I apoloigize if im wrong about that. You have no results in the areas, of faith or even influence with in your own house hold, and as you yourself admitted last time we met in the areas of discipling others.
I’m happy to maintain a friendship with you but there are certain qualities that must be present to have a friendship. You do not bring those qualities to our relationship. Please read up on friendship and influence and understand that i dont see you as someone who treats me as a friend. Your too much of a know it all. You are not a builder of people. You are one who wants to prove you are right and one who insults my intelligence everytime you talk to me or write something to me. When I ask you to stop with that line of reasoning, you do not respect my wishes. Maybe God introduce you to me so you might learn a thing or two from me. I’ve tried to be as full of grace as Possible when it comes to you. But you just keep going on the attack. Matthew 15:18 says I should tell you that you are sinning against me. Consider this the notice.
You will always be loved as my brother in Christ no matter what
God bless
Mark Haas
– – –
OK – that was the response. I still would like to see him get out of this vortex of evil, but I’m thinking that he’ll have to fall on his own. I believe it will happen shortly, and not without a lot of gnashing of teeth on his part. Me – I’m at peace because I pray for him to find a way out and honestly I pray that Orrin and company go to jail.
For the record, my name is Mike Bickel – I’ve already posted my twitter account but I’m also on facebook too and while I don’t want to start a righteous war, I have been inspired by Adam’s courage with his family!
Mike- I appreciate you posting that letter on here. Not surprisingly I heard many of the same things from people a lot lower than the gentleman in your letter when I decided to leave the cult. I really hope O and company end up in jail soon here.
Mike,
I just copied and pasted your email and sent it back to Mark Haas asking if he had written it. Looking forward to his response. I am sorry you got beat up like that, crazy!
“You have nothing to offer me”…..wow…unbelievable statement of pride and arrogance. Sorry Mark, you are certifiably a putz.
@Brent: Well – I “had” been following Mark Haas on Twitter for a few months but he wasn’t following me. After his letter to me (above) I decided that maybe he was a lost cause – so I decided to “unfollow” him because I basically had given up. But because you wrote him last night, he has now (as of this morning) started following me. My twitter account is shown in the stream above. I will now start following Mark because I think he just doesn’t realize that there are people who care about those who are the roadkill refuse of those in team as well as those currently involved. It’s sort of Biblical in a way. Those whose total focus is on this kingdom (ie. TEAM) cannot see that they are headed for death (ie. roadkill). This AMTHRAX site is trying to give healing to those who are hurting, give sight to the blind and ears to the deaf… give lame (roadkill) people the ability to get up off their mat and follow the truth. I know the metaphor is poor, but there are similarities. This site is like apostle training to heal the wounded soul.
Oops – I guess he won’t let me follow him on twitter after all. But I have no problem allowing him to follow me. I have nothing to hide. My twitter: ojala485
In light of Mike’s comment above, Mr. Haas, I guess I can conclude that you did indeed write the above message to Mike. I think your name at the bottom is confirmation enough as I doubt Mike would place your name there if it were not true. Although I don’t know Mike, nor what happened between you two, I can honestly say that your letter/email is simply pathetic. Your words are filled with so much pride and arrogance that I am compelled to have righteous indignation for Mike.
Mike you my friend are the MAN, keep it up! You are showing 10 times the leadership and character than Mr. Haas, my hat is off to you.
@Mike
He can follow you but he won’t let you reciprocate?!! WTH!
What a display of leadership…influence…NOT! And these are…let me guess christian luminaries, Team cult supposes. Holy cow and macro!
These mlm charlatans’ actions or lack of thereof, confirm their talent at making all and sundry just stink, that they come into contact/association with. They make christinity have a stinker, heck even Jesus (he don’t get surprised tho’), John Maxwell too, etc (sorry JMax). In the process they are making the devil look either good or a poorly skilled amateur at do, and be evil. I can’t make up my mind but it’s one them.
Mike~ I commend you, Keep up the Great Work. I have no doubts you can hold your own. :
I appreciate your willingness to share on here! š
The Defensiveness, attacking, very Nasty comments in Mark Haas reply.. is full of evidence that he can’t handle others personal differing views, cannot accept truth and simply reveals he can’t take handle any rejection. Wow the Hypocrisy, Arrogance, and Pride are astounding!
Anyone can SEEā¦Yet Another Perfect Example of the groomed product the “RESULTS” they get…. through the modeling, teaching and system! This is typical behavior and tactics..the by- product of someone the Team Liefers promote and tout as Top āLeaders!ā Hope his āfollowersā read this and wake up!
I have recently seen this same judgment on the spiritual hearts of others , as if they are some divine authority to those on the āoutsideā of them! You can be sure where that judgment is coming fromā¦because it is a Top down dictatorship and create āfollowersā..not leaders; who follow and model what they seeā¦Simon do or are told to do!
I find it interesting Mark H. claimed he is not reading books by orrin or chris? Really? I believe he is misleading or blantanly lying. Mark are you not a āleaderā representing the “leadership’? ā¦.Are you NOT joining in on the bi-weekly confession meetings in your team to discuss how useless and bad you and how the MFC has āchanged your life for the betterā? Rightā¦It is quite evident what it has done for your attitude and how you treat others with that LIEf changing education!
It is disturbing watching the actions of these misleaders and the belittling of Mark Haas comments.
Mark Haas says: “The bible says you will know them by their fruit. I see no friut on your tree.”
I am not sure what Bible Mark Haas is reading from but perhaps he should go get a real bible and read it or Quit trying to blur and confuse, twist it, and use it to jab Mike with!
Mark seems to… be trying to confuse 2 things. Money..”fruit on Mikes’ tree” with the Fruits of the Spirit? NO Comparison!..Speaking of the Fruits of the Spirit… Mark Haas you are clearly lacking and not displayed to “Your brother in Christ”!
WoWā¦ Mark Haas…Your many nasty, jabbing, condescending, judgmental, hypocritical comments and lack of Grace is so blatantly evident, you should be ashamed of yourself! I hope for your sake you can see this yourself and if notā¦holy smokes you are lost completely blind.
Thanks for displaying and continuing to verify and validating how misleaders in Team Lief are ‘trained’ , How they REALLY treat others and anyone can clearly see it isnāt even close to how they claim they do! You have displayed exactly how people are treated (behind the scenes when they think no one is looking) and as many, many on here have said all along, thanks again for showing who can be believed!
Imo , Mark Haas your reply is very evilā¦ a ‘disgrace’ to Christianity and the epitome of the lack of Biblical principle or any biblical truth, and true Christianity. It isnāt even close to an example of Christ.
BTW~ Mark Haas, Let all the readers including Mike how your scolding from orrin or chris goes! Also, let us know if your income (you should be voted out) for violating the P&P’s on this “embarrassment’! They don’t like that you know when the truth comes out nor do I doubt they will be pleased that you displayed their “RESULTS” from their MFC!
correction; Let us all know if YOUR income gets taken away!
Mike~
Maybe you should send this letter to: Mark Haas says: “John maxwell, John wood (sic), Steven covey, Jim Collins, ken ham, steven davy and tom ascol and so on.”
And ask all of them if this is the type of “Christian” messages and leadership principles they teach? Mark Haas and the entire Team & LIEf system is exploiting these leaders books and leadership to ‘use’ for the Team/LIEf crediblity for their cult and against others to fulfill their own selfish monetary agenda.
I have read many of these authors with the exception of a couple and anything by Tom Ascol and am very curious if this Pastor ( I believe he is orrin’s, chris’s or tim’s pastor, NOW)… Is or are they teaching this behavior, leadership, and twisting of the Bible. I am no expert and would love to read what they have to say about this letter and the Team LIEf exploiting their credibility,and treating people in this manner.
NOTHING, I have ever read from these authors would indicate this is Christian Leadership or principles!
Notice how straight man Mark Haas ends his hokum missive, with the mlm classic “still love you” ahhh what? WTH?!!! Made me wanna throw up. What love can posibbly emanate from one who spews such claptrap? These teammunists sure are a confised lot.
Returning to report. Its been over 48 hours now since I first messaged Mark Haas asking him to either confirm or deny that he wrote the above message to Mike. Either he is so busy with his Life “business” hahaha…(have to laugh after attaching the word business) to respond, does not check messages often, or is guilty as charged.
Funny how people will say something that wretched in private yet be too afraid to say it, or admit to saying it, in a public setting.
Mark, I am going to state here in public that I think your a total jackass.
I think a great addition to this site would be a twitter feed of the top leaders just to show how big of a gap exists between what they say and what they do.
Brent~
He is more than likely never going to confirm, he is probably got his “Hey Buddy” call and got reamed then and at the Men’s leadership…They NEVER allow any dissenting comments except from their own defenders who praise & worship them and then post negative dissenting comments about the ‘critics’…such hypocrisy over and over!
Also they ‘claim’ they are sooooooooooooooooooooo positive…. all the Time..NO NEGATIVE remember Mark…apparently he just made an ‘error’..right…they claim they are also self-controlled (EQ) ha!) but as anyone can See from Mark Haas letter of response, that is simply not True!! There is testimony all over this site from many that confirms they are NOT the same in public as they are behind the scenes and Mark Haas has verified and proven that for the world to see.
Freedomhaha~
The gap is so wide it is polar opposite. š
Twitter is now the only place that I interact with TEAM members anymore, but I kind of like it because it shakes me back to reality every time I see I tweet. It allows me to appreciate what I have now so much more than TEAM. Funny story, all those people that thought I was the best person ever when I was on TEAM all unfollowed me. I guess I didn’t have anything to offer them which I guess is true. I don’t have any good advice on how to run a scam. š
Freedomhaha~
That is another confirmation of how their lies fly back in their face…they ‘pretend’ they love you and are such great friends and scamming partners right up til the time you leave and as LONG as you are in the ‘group think’ and are following and dumping all your money upline!!
Webelieved~
I think the world should ‘see’ just how Rude orrin is in emails and how he operates behind the scenes!!
His words and actions (self-proclaiming, promotion and worship of himself) certainly misleads others into believing he is some Godly principled man(I say very loosely) guru and by his hyperbole he acts as if he came up with conflict resolution and tells everyone he practices it!!!
I am going to sound like a broken record….but I have a msg for Mark Haas…keep your self-righteous religion to yourself, mate. I’ve had it up to here with holier-than-thou attitudes. Don’t mix religion with business unless you’re running a Christian bookstore or something like that!
Oh, and one more thing, Mark…if you can’t accept the fact that people don’t like your stupid business, then you have a serious problem. Taking “no” for an answer isn’t the end of the world, you know.
Izzy~
Great to see you and great comments!!
I guess I know that everyone already knows about the site but since there have been so many attemps on the part of the TEAM to force it way down in the results list, the following article is harder to find in the search results:
http://www.forbes.com/forbes/2008/0811/050.html
I know that AMTHRAX also put out a link to this in 2008, but it’s worth reading for those thinking that the TEAM hype is actually real.
I’d rather not pollute the site with a running feed of TEAM leaders’ tweets.
That link was a team leader’s tweet? Wow – I didn’t know they’d dare admit that: “Team is one step ahead of all these juice selling schemes. It is a pyramid atop a pyramid.”
Mike~
Really, why would a Liefer tweet that hahaha! They are losing it!
@webelieved – No – I have gotten no email, text or anything from him. After Brent said that he emailed him to see if the response was really his, Mark started following me on Twitter. As I mentioned before, I had been following Mark for some time on twitter because honestly I was concerned about him but he has so many followers I wasn’t concerned that he wasn’t following me. I was jarred, however, when he immediately started following me AFTER Brent had sent the email to him. You must realize that I do CARE for Mark and to me, he is showing that he is confident in what he is doing and really must believe in the TEAM/LIFE concept, which, as I said, is concerning to me. I agree that he uses all the tactics and techniques that he has been taught and had sent me many photos of all the book that he has and is continuing to read. On Facebook he comes across as a dedicated father but also as a dedicated TEAM member and I only wish that he could realize that this MLM is like all other ones in that it is truly a legal pyramid scheme that rewards the top people and suppliers which basically putting 90% of the workers into a no-win option. It’s not like any real company and only survives on the ability to get people to “believe” that they, too, can do it…. and of course, they can’t. It’s like one of those carnival barkers who deceive the public into believing they can throw that ring on the square blocks, or the ball into the bottles. It looks easy enough – but it’s based on deception and lies about each and every part of the MLM until they have the person not only “brain washed” into the hype – convinced that they aren’t working hard enough, or they insult them into saying they are a slacker… all done with the idea that they will be helped and mentored by their upstream. Their “upstream” are like Pharoah’s slave drivers and the 90% pull impossibly heavy blocks up to the pyramid and die trying – and the Pyrmamid is for the future of one, soon to be dead Pharoah. What TEAM/LIFE needs is a Moses character who can lead (not their type of “leadership”) these people to a promised land based on TRUTH, not on LIES. Faith and Hope and Trust are very important when you are a Christian, but these concepts can be perverted into an evil cult whose only concern is stealing from the poor and then condemning them for not being successful. The prophets (AMOS, ISAIAH, MICAH, HABBUKUK, ZEPHANIAH, and others ) were very big on calling these alleged “leaders” hypocrits. Same thing happened with John the Baptist who called them a “brood of vipers”. Even Jesus talked this way to those abusing the poor and calling it religion. I just hate anyone to use the Bible or religion (selective statements) to make people feel like they have to not complain, or they have to support their brothers, when we know that such statements are trying to make these future failers in TEAM/LIFE believe that their leaders are leading them down a “faith-based” path. That makes THIS MLM worse (in my opinion) than all the others.
I DO care for Mark albeit I do not know him. He’s a strong person working for the wrong side. He’s like SAUL before becoming PAUL. I don’t believe in any way that Mark is a bad guy. I just pray that he will “see the light” as Paul did on the road to Damascus.
@MIke, I actually sent Mark a direct message through the Facebook message system. And looking here now I can see that he has indeed been on his Facebook account yet has failed to answer my simple question of “Did you write this?”
@Brent – Did you know that there is a sight on Facebook that is called “Pray for Mark Haas”? I have no idea who put it up, but there are currently 742 who “like” this. I am one of them as I pray for him too. As I said – he’s a good man who’s gotten into the wrong business and I can’t figure out why he would ever do that. It’s like he’s caught by the mob and can’t get out gracefully. I know that you, and legions of others would be mad at him for being part of such an organization so you can’t get over your “mad”. I just pray that he sees the pain and suffering that his “way” leaves as roadkill. Their families, their scarce finances, their family and friends who now shun them, their embarassment of not seeing it for what it was. How can you do that to your “friends”?
“Greater love hath no man but this: that he lay down his LIFE for his friends”.
Mike Bickel to Mark Haas: Give it up – find a way out – for the sake of all those who will suffer more if you don’t!
The LIFE BUSINESS has done so many wonderful things to many people. I find in unimaginable to think that a business whose sole purpose is to educate the public by paying them to read can be scam? Ask yourself what kind of credentials the people who are saying these things have before you take it as fact. Nothing in life is given out, the LIFE BUSINESS is the easiest thing anyone can do for success, period.
Egad, Alex: do you think we’re all 22 yr olds here? Do all of us REALLY need to haul out all of our degrees and advanced education? I think your post must be a deliberate attempt to inflame others—because, quite frankly, it’s so far out in left field–LOL!!.
“Educating the public by PAYING them to read?” No, honey, they’re getting YOU to buy it BECAUSE they are the publishers, and they get double-mileage on some goods. Examples: by putting out repeat-info CDs, and by having you guys buy some extra books that are also printed for public consumption on book sites. I’d be very very leery of some of their “teachings”, too, both verbal and printed.
Did you know you shouldn’t be ON this site? Did you know you shouldn’t be talking to anyone but your upline? Excuse the hell out of me, but for example: what makes 36 yr old Dan Hawkins, a so-called founding member/policy council member QUALIFIED to deal with downliner marriage problems. He was a freakin’ auto mechanic!! Quite frankly, and for example: I am more qualified than he is, just by virtue of stuying more counseling type roles in health care for a master’s degree, although I don’t think I should do it, either, because it’s not my specialty.
Alex, what percentage of your team is making a profit?
Alex – Wake up! They claim to be experts on finance, yet several of their top leaders declared bankruptcy within the recent past (while they were still speaking on stage about how great their life was).
Orrin hid the fact that he got paid $3 million for bringing all of us over to MonaVie from Quixtar. Orrin also had a legal defense fund set up that many people contributed to (even though Orrin was making hundreds of thousands of dollars a month and many of the people contributing to the fund were dead broke).
Not a scam? Then why did so many leaders who were in the inner circle quit? and these were some huge earners – Billy Florence, Randy Haugen, the Morgans, Raquel Peters, Pastor Dickie, the CEO Bobbie Dickie….. Ask youself…what did these people find out that made them want to leave an organization after making so much money?
Read the policies & proceedurees and how they can take your business for any reason.
Open your eyes Alex (unless you are another troll). We were all there. we made a lot of money. We saw the inside. We saw the lives ruined. We saw the hundreds and thousands of people who were losing money month after month after month. Racking up credit debt higher and higher and higher (like the Darkangelo’s who had over $100,000 of credit card debt according to their publicly released bankruptcy papers).
How did they go from 20,000-30,000 people at functions 4 years ago to less than 10,000 this year?
Do some research on the suposed “Guru” status of Orrin & Chris.
Do some research on Orrin’s claim that he spent $12 million of his money fighting for the rights of home-based business owners. sounds to me more like he LOST his lawsuit and his fine was $12 million. Then he wrote his own policies & proceedures to be more restrictive than the ones he claimed he fought against.
Do more research Alex. This is NOT the group of people I would want my kids hanging around.
Alex – Dude, I feel for ya, but get a clue, man! If you’ve been around long enough to be indoctrinated then you’ve been around long enough to know how Orrin and Chris got their “best-selling author” titles. It’s not enough for them to sell you ONE copy of their book by making it part of the Book of the Month, they run contests to artificially inflate sales (i.e. whoever buys the most books, wins some time with the leaders). They also often make their books part of first-night packs or the mental fitness challenge.
Your Average Joe is NOT buying their books, only TEAM members are. That’s akin to me saying to my children, “Hey kids, I want to have a lot of money in my estate so I can pay you a measly allowance. Why don’t you give me your hard-earned paper route money and, if you’re good and you don’t tick me off, I might give you a little of it back.”
Don’t tick Orrin (or Chris or Tim or George or…) off, or your paper route money and all of your customers will be given to their next favorite child!
EUREKA!! THIS IS LIKELY THE LAST POST I’LL EVER NEED TO MAKE
THE HYPOTHESIS: LIFE/Team IS ACTUALLY IT’S OWN FASCIST “STATE” and CAN BE PROVEN (It struck me like a bolt out ot he blue when I was catching an updated version of Upstairs/Downstairs on public TV today. It happened at the moment the spoiled younger sister, who’d been seducing her driver and they both end up at a disasterous mid-1930’s Fascist ralley. What I heard coming from the podium sounded exactly what I’ve heard in videos and read from Woodward etal.)
Here’s the basic Wikipedia definition of that fascism and I’ve bracketed just how it could be replaced with Team-isms–the rest of this text is from Wikipedia–the bracketed info is from me, AND I CHALLENGE ANYONE TO DISPUTE THAT IN THIS CASE, THE PROOF’S IN THE PUDDIN’:
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“The unity of the nation [group/community] is to be based upon suprapersonal [the biz comes first] connections of ancestry [social similarities] and culture [especially Christianity and American value judgements] through a totalitarian state [don’t question the way we pay; don’t speak to crossliners, etc] that seeks the mass mobilization [a million strong in 5 years! we are growing exponentially! fired up!!] of the national community through discipline [always put the biz first], indoctrination [read our CDs and books! it’s a must!] , physical training [take our mental fitness challenge, too!], and eugenics [instead of improving your genetics, we will wipe your mind clean and teach you all over what we want you to know and believe].
Fascism seeks to eradicate perceived foreign influences [do not listen to any family, friends or ex-members] that are deemed to be causing degeneration of the nation [LIFE/Team biz] or of not fitting into the national culture [LIFE/Team culture–but we also want to rebuild all of Western civilization’s culture].
Fascism asserts that national [group] self-determination requires the allowance for territorial [enormous group expansion plans, including to other continents] expansion and asserts that imperialism [upliners will enforce their power over you] is a necessity for nations [LIFE/Team] growing in numerical, economic, and spiritual strength.”
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Note: those three short paragraphs with my interjected/bracketed thoughts could be done many different ways…….there isn’t even one area where you could not. Ergo: it ain’t so funny when we liken “the biz” to Hilter’s Germany.