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Did Dean Kosage Change His Name To Dean Grey?

May 18, 2015

Update July 20, 2015: Dean Grey no longer appears on the Allysian Sciences management team webpage. This article will remain intact for historical purposes.


I received the following comment the other day:

Amthrax something called allysian sciences popped up and I thought you might find a certain “Dean Grey” on the management team familiar. Worth checking out looks very familiar

http://www.allysian.com/management.html

Clicking to the Allysian management page, there’s a Dean Grey listed as Master Architect. The photo bearings a striking resemblance to former Amway Diamond, Dean Kosage. The bio attached to the photo sounds like something Dean would say about himself too — heavy on the accolades without much detail on the actual companies he was previously involved with (Amway).

Here’s a portion from Dean Grey’s bio on Allysian’s management page:

Seeing a need for entrepreneurs to be discovered in a faster and more simplified, way instead of trying to be ranked high on Google for example, Dean developed TAGS, a 100 million dollar plus platform, with some of todays largest and well known Investors and CEO in North America.

TAGS looks like it’s the new name for Zooplr, Dean’s last company as far as I know. The Zooplr website doesn’t seem like it’s very active today. I’d like to see some concrete facts regarding this $100 million dollar platform and a list of the investors in this company. Anyone care to share these facts with us?

Dean’s personal website at DeanKosage.com seems to have been shut down at some point between May, 2014, and today. His Twitter page hasn’t been updated since July, 2014, either. Did Dean officially change his name from William D. Kosage to Dean Grey? Is this what he’s been up for the past year?


Update May 20, 2015: A Google search turned up a 2014 legal notice announcing Kosage’s intention to change his name in La Presna San Diego, a weekly bilingual newspaper in San Diego. Check it out here:

http://laprensa-sandiego.org/wp-content/plugins/download-monitor/download.php?id=272

Here’s a brief excerpt from the notice:

ORDER TO SHOW CAUSE
FOR CHANGE OF NAME
CASE NUMBER:
37-2014-00031899-CU-PT-NC

TO ALL INTERESTED PERSONS:
Petitioner: WILLIAM DEAN KOSAGE
filed a petition with this court for a decree
changing names as follows:
WILLIAM DEAN KOSAGE TO DEAN GREY

The hearing was held on November 25, 2014 at 8:30 AM at the Superior Court of San Diego. Based on this evidence, it’s reasonable to conclude that Dean Grey is indeed the former William Dean Kosage, formerly of Amway, Freestyle, Zooplr, and more.


As for Allysian, the company sells various pills, powders, and chocolates using an MLM system. Olympian speed skater, Apolo Ohno, is listed as one of the founders. The other founder is Rod Jao who was previously involved with All In Energy and Amway Global. Oz at BehindMLM goes into more detail about Allysian’s MLM compensation plan and ultimately concludes that it’s a “product-based pyramid scheme” and “perhaps should be avoided altogether.”

42 Comments
  1. Knowledge permalink
    May 18, 2015 11:17 am

    Hello Amthrax…been awhile, but someone sent me a link to this article, which I find enormously comical. Dean Kosage appears to be changing his name to Dean Grey…I wonder why? Hmmm…when you leave that many mlm dead bodies along the roadside the past 25 years, I guess one has to take drastic measures. I sure wouldn’t want to have the name “Dean Kosage”/”William Dean Kosage” when someone goes to google me…just not very good for business, especially when that new position is “Master Architect” for a new mlm. Obviously, he’s trying to disconnect his future from his past…but you can’t operate the way you have for decades and think you can just change your name and no one will realize…Google/internet is way to powerful for that deception. Great find! Dean Grey…LOL!

    In case, anyone wants to cross reference this new name change with Allysian’s FB page…I thought that maybe the Allysian webmaster may have mixed up his last name in the “Management Team”, but apparently not:
    https://www.facebook.com/AllysianSciencesMastermind (see March 25th 2015 post/pic)

  2. Tony permalink
    May 18, 2015 12:28 pm

    Here is Allysian’s Facebook page. See the March 25th post with a clear picture of Dean Kosage, but tagged as Dean Grey “The brains behind the app”!! HAHA

    https://www.facebook.com/AllysianSciencesMastermind

    Clearly Dean can no longer be known on the Internet (for good reason) as ‘Dean Kosage’ so let’s change his name to Dean Grey (which I find funny bc Dean is shady indeed, being neither a black or white individual). And again, their details of Dean is being in ‘network marketing’. Yep, it was 20 years of Amway, World Wide Dream Builders, Quixtar, whatever they renamed it how many times. He’s a wolf in sheep’s clothing. BEWARE of this Dean “Kosage” Grey

  3. Me Secret permalink
    May 19, 2015 11:08 am

    Thanks for posting! I wish there was a way we could get this out there to more people. This is definitely Kosage, unfortunately I have met him in real life…

  4. You permalink
    May 19, 2015 11:11 am

    I have met Kosage in real life, this is definitely him. And as for Allysian? Looks shady to me.

  5. Melanie Morgan permalink
    May 20, 2015 8:58 am

    Never ceases to amaze me, how greedy and desperate they become to try and hide from their own selves and past, but this one….definitely takes the cake. What’s next…plastic surgery? Why not “John Doe?”

    Most important, What about his daughter and parents?

    This is messed up and such a disgrace to dishonor your own family name. I feel for his family, they can’t be proud.

  6. May 20, 2015 1:13 pm

    A Google search turned up a 2014 legal notice announcing Kosage’s intention to change his name in La Presna San Diego, a weekly bilingual newspaper in San Diego. Check it out here:

    http://laprensa-sandiego.org/wp-content/plugins/download-monitor/download.php?id=272

    ORDER TO SHOW CAUSE
    FOR CHANGE OF NAME
    CASE NUMBER:
    37-2014-00031899-CU-PT-NC

    TO ALL INTERESTED PERSONS:
    Petitioner: WILLIAM DEAN KOSAGE
    filed a petition with this court for a decree
    changing names as follows:
    WILLIAM DEAN KOSAGE TO DEAN GREY

    The hearing was held on November 25, 2014 at 8:30 AM at the Superior Court of San Diego.

    I guess that settles it.

  7. Vogel permalink
    May 20, 2015 3:08 pm

    Eesh! If Kosage had only changed his behavior he wouldn’t have had to change his name. But I guess his plan going forward is to continue lying and scamming, so a name like Dean Grey might seem perfect for thwarting Google searches and shaking his ignominious past.

    If MLMs were smarter (then they wouldn’t be MLMs — har!), they would only hire con-men with hard to track names like Bill Smith. I don’t think this tactic is going to work for Kosage though. A Google search for Dean Grey + MLM or ‘scam artist’ will pull up all the same old dirt.

    Too bad this schmuck didn’t simply try to atone for his sins instead of trying to dodge them.

    BTW, it’s gratifying to see that Monavie is crumbling to dust. Prophecy fulfilled. Justice served (or at least it will be when Larsen and Marsh get dragged into court by MV’s creditors; this probably won’t end quietly).

  8. May 20, 2015 4:40 pm

    Grey is popular, especially when there are 50 shades of it.

  9. You permalink
    May 25, 2015 3:53 pm

    I should go post on their Facebook page asking if that is Dean Kosage, and see if it gets deleted!!

  10. May 27, 2015 2:40 pm

    Dean Kosage still has an active facebook page

  11. May 28, 2015 7:08 am

    If you have to change your name to keep doing what you do, it’s possible you’re off track.

    Never liked that guy, likely never will. His mannerisms and shameless self promotion just scream at me not to trust him.

  12. May 28, 2015 11:52 am

    Correct me if I’m wrong, but is that picture of Casey James on the Facebook page fro Allysian Mastermind suspiciously similar to Casey Combden?

    Is this a thing now where all these MLM guys change their name to keep playing the game?

    I don’t know whether to laugh at them or not!

  13. May 28, 2015 12:18 pm

    I was so taken I actually blogged!

  14. LionChaser permalink
    May 28, 2015 10:18 pm

    https://ca.linkedin.com/pub/casey-james-combden/24/a13/a0a

    Rocket, on C.C. – yes.

    It’s sad when you’re entire life is supposedly based on “helping people live themselves” but you can’t even keep your own identity.

  15. LionChaser permalink
    May 28, 2015 10:19 pm

    Love themselves not live*

  16. You permalink
    May 29, 2015 8:18 am

    Seriously? There’s another scam artist that is a part of Allysian?

  17. David Phelan permalink
    May 29, 2015 3:34 pm

    I spoke to Genio Pugliese today at customer support. He’s apparently a veteran (25 years) of MLM and spoke to me openly on this. I was dubious. Genio claims he’s a co-founder of Allysian, yet not even on the website. How much more do these guys have to ‘hide’ or keep on the down low?

    Anyway – here’s what he told me (don’t hold your breath….he explanations he offered were woeful!)

    1) Kosage changed his name “legally” because he went from being famous in the MLM world, then became an app developer/tech guy, and wanted a ‘fresh start’ for his next MLM venture.

    I asked if Dean was so clued in to technology why changing his name officially had apparently only extended to the Allysian website, not even his LinkedIn profile. He had no answer.

    I asked if he thought it seemed shady. He could not answer, and said it was ‘not illegal’ and that Dean was tired of people bringing up his divorce with his ex-wife. I responded I knew nothing of this! Strange thing for him to volunteer on the call but anyway. Dean is now apparently “Mr Grey”. touche!

    2) Onto Casey Combden. First this Genio guy said that he hadn’t asked him, but knew that “James” is his middle name. So Casey is wanting to go by his first and middle name. Genio couldn’t confirm if Casey too had changed his name “legally”. Then Genio contradicted himself and said that Casey “told him” he had changed it for the same reason Dean had – because he was so famous in his previous Amway life. I again asked Genio if he thought it seemed dodgy/shady to have people using fictitious and/or new names as representing themselves on the “Management Team” he said, no, because it wasn’t illegal, and that the two main guys are Rod Jao and Apolo Ohno. And that Ohno wouldn’t put his reputation on the line, as it could go bad.

    I replied in candor – that if it goes bad, Ohno can just change his name and try to hide the history!😉

    These guys are just duping unsuspecting people who are not as diligent in background research and should be outed for what is true, and not for trying to hide it. Maybe they need to take a few more of their nootropic pills to help advance their mental acuity! Doesn’t seem to have given them any common sense thus far!

    In terms of Rod Jao – the guy is a consistent scammer. His latest big name he dragged through the mud was poker legend Johnny Chan. Having a big name guy on his team has never stopped Rod before, and doesn’t guarantee anything. Google insider trading + rod jao and you’ll see this guy isn’t out to help anyone but himself. Watch out Apolo.

    As for me and my team, we won’t be going anywhere near Allysian Sciences. Scam alert!

  18. Knowledge permalink
    June 12, 2015 8:21 am

    Re: Dean Kosage/Grey being a tech mogul:
    The most comical aspect of William Dean Kosage (momma named him William Dean Kosage, I’m gonna call him William Dean Kosage) or Dean Grey (this will help when the Google bots hit this page…for search results) is that he was absolutely oblivious to technology and how it worked, back in the day. Maybe he’s studied up on it, but I doubt he’s become an expert in anything but self promotion. He was a MASTER at taking other peoples’ ideas (Brad Wolgamott, Brad/Greg Duncan, Inc, Fortune etc) and weaving them into his own presentations/appearance as his own knowledge/experience. He would speak on tech trends, e-commerce etc. But when he sat down at my computer, he didn’t even know how to get on-line (didn’t know what Internet Explorer was) or use a search engine, which was a typical Dean Kosage/Grey situation. He was as ignorant as they come, technically. Just apart of the facade that he is constantly creating/changing, including his name. Just amazing how people gravitate towards what they want to believe in people/situation…and that’s why MLMs and scam artists are thriving in this world.

  19. Kevin permalink
    July 16, 2015 1:48 pm

    I don’t see Dean listed on the management team anymore on the Allysian website. Maybe he got the boot when they found out he couldn’t do what he said he could do? There is someone else listed now as the main mobile app director or something like that. Just my opinion, but he probably pissed too many people off at that company just like everywhere else he has been.

  20. July 20, 2015 7:54 pm

    Kevin – Thank you for the update. I put up a note at the beginning of the post mentioning this fact. I wonder what really happened? Casey “Combden” James still appears to be active, at least on Facebook, for the company.

  21. Why do u care permalink
    August 29, 2015 8:27 am

    Why after all of these years do you care and stalk Dean Kosage Grey or whatever he decides to call himself. My advice move forward.

  22. Melanie Morgan permalink
    September 1, 2015 12:15 am

    Why do u care~

    I have a hunch, you are incapable of understanding or accepting the answer to your question.

  23. ptb permalink
    January 21, 2016 12:57 pm

    Thanks for the site. I just turned down an interview at his new company because honestly – reading the carnage of this man is making me a little ill.

  24. Fuller Shirt permalink
    January 29, 2016 1:04 am

    Dean you cant run from your shadow.. you can change your name a million times but the label does not make the person.. the character defines the person.. sorry dean shady grey

  25. April 1, 2016 11:46 pm

    Hi Everyone🙂

    For all of those who care to listen it is very sad that a few professional internet critics of Amway are trying to insinuate I changed my name to hide my past as Dean Kosage vs launching a new career in a completely different industry.
    For example I have kept my social media sites up under Dean Kosage to continue to communicate with the thousands of positive people who value my leadership or insights.

    The fact is I have been dealing with a handful of Cyber Bullies for over a decade who tried to defame me with hate statements, false information and posting as multi users. Unfortunately being a leader at one time in Amway put me in the spotlight to get attacked by people who do not like the MLM industry.

    It is important for you all to realize main users commenting on this site ( claiming to be normal disgruntled people ) are actually professional amway critics posting over 2000 -6000 post on anti Amway sites it is important to realize you are listening to people who have dedicated themselves to attacking tons of the large leaders in Amway not just me.

    Only recently did I discover the real names of these 4-5 users who have stalked, defamed, and slandered me, because after more then 10yrs their behavior online has elevated far beyond a disgruntled person and they have become cyber bullies with hateful,and inflamed comments.

    They started by leveraging a unfortunate night almost 20yrs ago where my Ex wife went to jail for domestic violence by posted her and her moms police statements from that night
    (as if they where facts vs lies ) that where ignored by the police who listened to the 911 call I placed where the police listened to everything that unfolded that day and confirmed i was the victim. However of course it was a tough time for everyone Divorce is a painful and sad time for everyone. I fact I even spoke positively about my ex wife on Cds for years after that 911 call because everyone can have a bad night but it does not mean they are a bad person.

    For years I have ignored these handful of disgruntled people and listened to the millions of happy fans I have around the world.. but I now feel I need to stand up against Cyberbullying.

    It is really sad because children have to deal with this issue now , and due to YELP many business’s have to deal with with haters… typically only people with a decent size following had to deal with online haters claiming to be ( watch dogs to protect the public )
    But today we all know someone who has been effected by these people.

    The world has come up with names for these people who have taking a disgruntled comment beyond free speech to a level of harassment. We call them haters, trolls, cyber bullies in our music and movies today.

    In my case being a 20 yr old young man, building organizations of 1000’s around the world & speaking to audiences of over 30,000 on a regular basis exposed me to a ton of people and situations in mlm.

    Discovering who you are and learning life lessons is tough enough as young man … but when you do it in a glass house for 1000’s to see it puts you in spotlight where not only your success’s but your mistakes or faliures get pointed out.

    Lucky for me millions were impressed with what I accomplished and how I handled not only my success but my failures. However for sure there are some who did not enjoy their experience with me, and some of it I am sure was my fault. I made tons of mistakes along my journey. So I do not mind a blog dedicated to those who truthful had a sad experience with me ( and I apologize to those of you ). If I truthfully hurt you please contact me i would love to bring closure because we all make mistakes.

    But I do think the public deservers to know who the main 4- 5 anti Dean users really are and what they are really doing on multi sites and under multi user names.

  26. Anonymous permalink
    April 2, 2016 3:53 pm

    I thought I was going to read why a different name was used other than to thwart internet searches.

  27. April 2, 2016 3:56 pm

    So the obvious question is….

    Why did you change your name?

    Or is that being a bully by asking the obvious?

  28. April 2, 2016 4:54 pm

    HI Rocket
    Asking a question is never a issue unless you are just trying to bait someone.

    I changed my name as I already explained above for 2 reasons.

    1st ) The first reason is because when you decide to make a major life or career change it is important to anchor that decision by changing your social circle, and many of the environments that surround you. So by changing my name I could further step into this new path and vision it is a exciting time🙂

    This would never hide someones past but only allow them to step into their future goals faster. For example I even posted on all my social media and informed everyone of my name change🙂 So insinuating I changed my name to hide something is funny and false.

    2nd ) The second reason is I was dealing with a small group of Cyberbullies who for over 10years have been slandering me on multiply media platforms. I had a choice to make, take the time to pursue legal action against them and the negative energy surrounding something like that, or i could further my first gaol and just change my name and see if this group of people would finally leave me alone and if they did not then to take legal action.

    Many of my current advisors and close friends in music, film and tv personalities have changed their names as they have adjusted their careers. Artist often even write under ghost names. And at my age today seeking personal fame is not my main goal anymore so there has been no need to really promote my personal name.

    I am now following the advice of my legal team. The first step was to post something and to clear up some of the most obvious mis information so that if any user post something false after the fact I would have a new record of it and they could be held liable.

    Then the second was to track down the actual names of the users who have stalked me for years who have already crossed the new slander and cyberbullying rules.

    Again I have no problem with people having a place to voice a opinion about a personal expereince but when that extends to creating multiple user accounts and stalking a person on multi platforms or making hate statements or using character assignation tatics that is no longer a person who is just voicing a opinion. Especially if we can track a coordinated effort of a team of people vs a single person.

    I am sorry some people on this ( Amway hate site ) feel so burned or upset by the MLM industry that they still feel the need to lash out at me. I know some people really did get burned by the industry but some also have had wonderful experiences.

    To be honest building the Amway business had it benefits and its negatives that I had to learn as I grew up to think for myself.

    Ultimately as I educated myself more about how Amway operated globally and outside of the WWDB group I realized it did not agree with many of the things I had been trained to do or think. At first I thought I could just run my own system and leave WWDB to solve the issue but that eventually was not the solution.

    So I decided to sell my Amway business and walk away from a decent size income.
    What is false on this blog site is when it was insinuated i did something wrong or was kicked out vs leaving Amway corp in a good standing. This I have proof of in writing from both the WWDB group as well as the AMWAY Corporation. So any user making a statement that I was forced to leave or did something wrong is false and can have action taken against them.

  29. April 2, 2016 6:46 pm

    Thanks for your answer. Personally I think starting a new path in life is great. i simply fail to see the correlation between changing your name or future success. You aren’t a famous person, nor an author. You’re a business person. In business a name becomes synonymous with a brand and the goal is to get that brand recognized and become known. How you achieve that by changing your name is beyond me and seems to fly in the face of conventional wisdom. Hence the skepticism surrounding your motives.

    The only reason I would feel the need to change my name is if it caused me difficulty or became an anchor to my personal progress. My first thought when your name was changed was because of that very thing. You’ll have to forgive that assumption.

    You’re free to disagree, but it is somewhat strange that you and Casey Combden were both viewed as controversial individuals within the Amway business and both have been observed changing their names.

    So what are you up to now, and how does changing your name further your goal?

  30. April 2, 2016 9:32 pm

    @rocket

    I can see your point of view, and I appreciate the tone in your response. Here are a few answers to your questions that might help you or others understand.

    FYI please ignore the typos and grammar as I am not taking the time to double check any of this🙂

    WHAT IS FAMOUS TODAY ?
    1st You mentioned I am not a famous person, and this is a great point🙂 However what has happened in the last 10 yrs is the definition of famous is changing due to social media and the internet. For example suddenly many people like me are known by millions around the world in certain circles such as speaking, thought leaders, instagram, FB etc. So now there is this new sector of people who are not hollywood famous but they are known far beyond then the average person and followed by hundreds of thousands.

    In my case ( even though you might not agree ) I was followed by people due to my insights and abilities to see trends and the ability to recover from a divorce and home school my daughter until she was 11 as a single dad. This gave hope to some people that they also could recover from tough situations emotionally and financially. I still get messages daily on FB thanking me from all over the world from people I inspired or someone helped.
    So just because this site focus’s on the ones who did not resonate with me does not mean thousand did not gain huge help far beyond building Amway.

    In my case I actually am a best selling author on Amazon with the book called ” Defining Moments of Courage” Sharon Lechter author of ” Rich Dad Poor Dad ” and New York Times best seller Jack CanField gave the forward and consulted me on the book. In fact I am mentioned in many other peoples books that are best sellers as well.

    DONT BECOME THE BRAND
    2nd Point of View .
    You are correct in many cases however with time comes hopefully some maturity:)
    and for many of the speakers, authors, thought leaders it has been discovered if you brand yourself then you have personality based business vs a true brand.
    I had Tony Robbins give me advice before I decided to sell my Amway business and he expressed to me given the chance to do things over he would have not branded himself so much vs created a brand. When you sell your company it is easier to sell if you are not the face of it. Plus As you all mention on this site people in MLM tried to create God and hero’s out of their leaders which just gets old and very tough to live up to LOL. When you are made out to be hero people then just get excited to watch you fall especially if you made them feel small in the past somehow. And being in your twenties and full of testosterone I am sure I did that to a few people ( yikes ).

    WHISTLE BLOWERS ARE APPRECIATED AND HATED
    3rd Point of View– You say Casey and I are viewed as controversial people in Amway as if that is a bad thing?

    Well that depends on who you are speaking to, he and i both broke many records inside the Amway business and where very popular for a period of time.

    Then we we both learned some of the private details about how the systems where really run and controlled by some king pins. Once I learned some of the LOA’s where not even following Amways best practices, I had a tough decision to make… Do i fight inside the system to change it by starting my own with Amway backing me up? Or do I just leave and give up 20yrs of work and all that money and start over ? This is a scary and tough time for a person. And most people would never give up the money especially if you have no other income to fall back onto. But I think the hardest thing was realizing I had been lead astray and some of what I was teaching was not accurate or helpful to people anymore.

    I tired to fight inside the system and was a hero to many of the young people building the business and and a nightmare the old school guard who did not like me bucking the system LOL as I threatened to expose some of their cultural issues violating even Amway’s rules.

    When you leave Amway sometimes your LOA will try to spin stories and make it sound like you left because of moral issues and to discredit you vs the simple fact you just decided to leave.
    I even had Amway corp send out letters confirming I was A+ accredited to offset some of the Spin wwdb group was selling around my departure. Amway had my back and placed many calls to the wwdb group informing them to back off and to get control of their false rumors.

    What is odd to me is I could have been a very valuable asset to sites like when i decided to leave this site should have just asked me why … or if I had discovered or learned anything.

    BOTTOM LINE
    Changing your name is something thousands of people do each month do and to think it is all for shady reasons is simple not true or a misinformed person. Typically it is about starting a new path as I have said, or many times it is due to what I have been dealing with some people stalking you, or bullying you online. I have discovered it has become a major issue that is hurting millions of people around the world.

    CHARITY
    In fact I am donating one of my companies entire mobile platform to multiple cyberbullying organizations to help raise awareness to this issue. People are committing suicide over being bullied and falling into depression, drugs and it is effecting all ages today.

    There is not one person on this blog that has worked with me in the past 10-15 years so my hope is we can all move on and heal and do better things if I even actually knew you…

    I must only request to not make false claims or hate statements or stalk me online any longer.

  31. Former Round Table permalink
    April 3, 2016 4:24 am

    OMG, is your arm permanently broken from constantly patting yourself on the back?

    One of the biggest problems I have with MLM is the inflated egos of these “leaders.”

  32. Vogel permalink
    April 3, 2016 10:07 am

    DK: “I was dealing with a small group of Cyberbullies who for over 10 years have been slandering me on multiply (sic) media platforms. I had a choice to make, take the time to pursue legal action against them and the negative energy surrounding something like that, or i could further my first gaol (sic) and just change my name and see if this group of people would finally leave me alone and if they did not then to take legal action.”

    What you refer to as “cyberbullying” would be labelled by many others simply as “criticism”, and changing your name to distance yourself from criticism is the central issue at hand. It seems disingenuous to attribute online criticism to a “small group” of 4 or 5 individuals. How could you possibly know one way or the other? There may be such a group, but I doubt they stand alone in their criticism. If anyone slandered you – i.e., said negative things that they knew to be untrue – then the correct response would have been to pursue legal action, not change your name. Suggesting that defending your good name in the courts amounts to “negative energy” is, in a word, absurd. And if there were in fact a small group of individuals dedicated to slandering you, it’s equally absurd to think that changing your name would put a stop to it. If anything, it would provide ammunition for intensifying such attacks.

    The “cyberbullying” defense come across as pathetic. It’s a convenient means of absolution to dismiss potentially valid criticism as the work of a few maleficent bullies. It sounds like BS; perhaps a case of transference and the pot calling the kettle black – and maybe karmic payback. I have seen a staggering amount of cyberbullying coming from defensive MLMers, much of which is directed at consumer advocates and MLM victims who have been justifiably critical of the industry. I’ll bet you never uttered a word of condemnation about those acts of cyberbullying. Too bad; if you had, maybe your complaints wouldn’t seem so hypocritical and feckless now.

  33. April 3, 2016 11:04 am

    Cyberbullying is far beyond simple criticism when it goes on for decades and contains false information. Plus a criticism would have be be about a action a person has actually done not a blanketed comment about them as a person or to judge them for being apart of a organization. Or to try as you are to hold me accountable for other peoples actions.

    When people coordinate a attack, use multiple user names, optimize their website to SEO a name in a direct attempt to effect the SEO rankings,set up google alerts when that name is used, post 1000’s of times and actively seek out others to slander it crosses a line
    ( Legally ) This is not my label it is what anti cyberbullying organizations and now many laws are stating. This push back is from the public not me as you would suggest.

    Thank God there are finally laws in place and easy ways to track these users actions now and if they try to hide their tracks it only goes goes proof their shady intent.

    As I have said in both my post above, having a place to express a persons disgruntled feelings is healthy, but there are rules and guidelines in place to protect people from that becoming slander and cyberbullying for a reason ( because it is harmful and millions are effected by it today)

    I find it funny that you feel qualified to tell me that changing my name is a bad thing.
    Are any of you a qualified PR firms, or legal counsel or even a therapist to give me advice?

    Legal action is being taken now and I am taking my legal advice by making statements on this site. Plus we needed to be able to point out the people who are stalking me vs the actual public.

    It is why the world has names for these people claiming to be the public online vs a troll or a hater, or a cyberbully.

    Lets move on people , I wish you the best🙂
    Cheers Dean

  34. Vogel permalink
    April 3, 2016 7:54 pm

    DK said: “Cyberbullying is far beyond simple criticism when it goes on for decades and contains false information.”

    If it contains false information and is detrimental, then it is libel, which is actionable in the courts, yet you said you chose to not go that route because it involves “negative energy” (although so does complaining on this board about being cyberbullied).

    DK said: “Or to try as you are to hold me accountable for other peoples actions.”

    I don’t see that I’m holding you accountable for anyone else’s actions. I don’t really know much about you other than what I’ve read here (and it’s probably lucky for you that so far I haven’t bothered to dig deeper given that there seems to be an abundance of low hanging fruit). But I can say with a fair degree of certainty that one doesn’t get high up in MLM without victimizing a lot of other people along the way and spreading the BS with a trowel.

    DK said: “When people coordinate a attack, use multiple user names, optimize their website to SEO a name in a direct attempt to effect the SEO rankings,set up google alerts when that name is used, post 1000’s of times and actively seek out others to slander it crosses a line ( Legally )”

    Those are the exact strategies that Amway, Monavie, and TEAM (and just about every other MLM) have used to bully their online critics. I bet you were totally cool with that though and never objected even once – it no doubt delighted you.

    I don’t know why you would bother complaining here about this alleged cyberbullying conspiracy. Like I said before, if you are being libeled, the logical response is to seek legal remedy, not change your name. If however, people are merely criticizing you but the criticisms are true/valid, then that’s not libel; and in that case changing your name makes perfect sense because there aren’t really any other options.

    DK said: “This is not my label it is what anti cyberbullying organizations and now many laws are stating. This push back is from the public not me as you would suggest.”

    Let’s not guild the lily eh? No organizations are pushing back on your behalf. So far all we know is that you have merely claimed to be a victim of bullying. However, with each post you make I’m becoming more convinced that maybe you aren’t a victim at all but rather a victimizer who eventually had to pay the piper.

    DK said: “Thank God there are finally laws in place and easy ways to track these users actions now and if they try to hide their tracks it only goes goes proof their shady intent.”

    Now it’s really starting to smell like BS up in here. There are legal remedies for libel but you stated that you chose not to pursue them. There are no “easy” ways to track users. It’s extremely difficult to subpoena IP addresses and identities of anonymous internet users. The courts set a very high bar for violating privacy, and for extremely good reason. Additionally, if people were making an organized attempt to cyberstalk and bully you, odds are they would have taken simple measures to cover their tracks.

    You seem to be making a veiled threat that your critics will be outed and prosecuted, but it looks more like you’re simply posturing in an attempt to be intimidating.

    DK said: “As I have said in both my post above, having a place to express a persons disgruntled feelings is healthy, but there are rules and guidelines in place to protect people from that becoming slander and cyberbullying…”

    In practical terms, “rules and guidelines” mean nothing – they are essentially suggestions. What matters in your case is whether or not a “law” was broken. I’ve heard of cases where legal remedies have been sought on behalf of schoolkids and adolescents who are cyberbullied, but I’ve never heard a grown man complain so damn much about being a cyberbullying victim. The tears are looking more and more like the crocodiilian variety.

    DK said: “I find it funny that you feel qualified to tell me that changing my name is a bad thing. Are any of you a qualified PR firms, or legal counsel or even a therapist to give me advice?”

    I never said it was “a bad thing” to change your name (and you are mistaken if you thought I was offering “advice” rather than merely a rational assessment). I said that it is a perfectly logical response for someone who seeks to create distance from their online persona (which in your case appears to be decidedly negative) if they have no other options – e.g., legal action, which you said you chose not to pursue because it’s “negative” or some such nonsense. Having a tarnished online persona is bad for someone in your line of work — of that there is no debate.

    DK said: “Legal action is being taken now and I am taking my legal advice by making statements on this site. Plus we needed to be able to point out the people who are stalking me vs the actual public.”

    What legal action is being taken? You said before that you weren’t going to take legal action because doing so would involve “negative energy”. And are you seriously suggesting that someone counseled you to come and this site and post what you’ve been posting? That sure seems like horrible advice. Did it come from your therapist or legal counsel, and if it’s the latter, then please tell us who so that we can make sure to hire them never.

    DK said: “It is why the world has names for these people claiming to be the public online vs a troll or a hater, or a cyberbully.”

    What name would that be? Amway? Orrin Woodward? Do tell!

    DK said: “Lets move on people, I wish you the best.”

    Yah right! “Nothing to see here people; move along now!” Ha! But…hmmm…not so fast. This is starting to get interesting. I think I’d like to hear more. Perhaps some details about what these mean old bullies said about you, or would telling me require you to change your name again? Something that will blend into anonymity on a Google search, like Bob Smith or John Doe, or the letter X?

  35. April 3, 2016 9:14 pm

    @ vogel … wow , you make blanketed statements about how if I was big in MLM then I must have mistreated people or I am a bad person ( wow really how racist ) even after admitting you do not know me… well there goes all of your creditability.

    I also like how you seem to insinuate me changing my name is bad choice or worse a tactic to avoid some truth … but then are talking about hiding your identity ( now thats funny ).. heck even bragging about how easy it is to hide your IP address.

    And yes 100% I am stating I did not take legal action 10yrs ago , but now I am.
    And yes I am saying I was told to make it very clear which statements are false on this site to see who would continue to slander me with false information beyond that point. This way no one could claim ignorance from this point forward.
    1) I left Amway Global on good terms
    2) I did not violate any of WWDB guidelines and left of my own decision.
    4) Changing my name was not to hide any type of truth…. I have nothing to hide , and i posted my new name on my social media sites to update my social circle.
    5) To insinuate or state I have more people upset with me then people I have helped is false and almost comically. This site only attracts the negative few as in less then 10 ( after 20yrs )
    might even be less once you account for cyberbullies using more then one user name.

    Thinking cyberbullying only effects children is just a insane and ignorant comment , it is why the world created titles like trolls, haters and cyberbullies.
    It effects children, adults, business’s and causes… and does massive damage.

    Finding users on this site are not that hard , seeing as I already found one lady in Canada and one ex MLM guy in Hawaii , and 2 in Iowa. The same people who post over and over again for yrs on multiple sites. I have not dug into your user name yet but most likely you are one of them already.

    Ok I am done, and for any rational person reading this they will be able to see through your hateful and emotionally charged comments.

    I have said my peace and explained my personal journey.
    I have spoken about things I would have done different, lessons learned and cleared up the fact that there are millions of happy fans and clients that people can find on my personal site once I bring it back online or they can go to my FB page now🙂

    This way people are not being mislead by this site assuming it is truly public opinion vs a dedicated hate site towards a industry with the same 4-5 main users blogging.

    I have more big things to accomplish and fun people to continue to work with🙂 I will not be spending more time on here.

    I truly do wish you all to be happy and I am sorry if you where mistreated by people in the MLM industry or heck just mistreated in general.
    We all deserve to be happy:)
    Cheers Dean

  36. April 4, 2016 6:17 am

    Dean

    I think the overarching message is that criticisms aren’t necessarily bullying. If I continue to talk about how Amway products are expensive and combined with shipping costs makes Amway a loser of a business, does that make me a cyber bully?

    No. Pointing out $50 for a case of water is a ripoff isn’t bullying Amway, it’s being critical of their prices.

    I don’t think people are necessarily misled by this site, I think they are given a critical perspective that their upline generally won’t even discuss. That’s a situation uplines themselves have created and to this day still haven’t seemed to have found a successful way to deal with legitimate criticisms.

    Given your previous comments, can it be presumed that most uplines are guilty of not allowing dissension about the business in Amway? Before the internet that worked, it doesn’t now.

    I also will apologize for not being able to identify any racism in Vogel’s post. Funny how people see things differently than each other isn’t it?

  37. Vogel permalink
    April 4, 2016 7:51 am

    DK said: “@ vogel … wow , you make blanketed statements about how if I was big in MLM then I must have mistreated people or I am a bad person ( wow really how racist )”

    Hardly. I simply made a general statement that those who rise high in the ranks of MLM do so through the exploitation of their downline and by spreading profuse amounts of BS. You seem to have great difficulty with reading comprehension. Might I also suggest that you pick up a dictionary and learn the meaning of the term “racist”? I’m pretty sure MLMers are not a distinct race.

    DK said: “I also like how you seem to insinuate me changing my name is bad choice or worse a tactic to avoid some truth”

    Still beating that dead horse? You made this misstatement once already and I took pains to correct you. I said specifically that it was not a “bad” choice but rather seemed like a logical one for someone seeking to create distance from their tarnished online reputation in the absence of other viable options.

    DK said: “Changing my name was not to hide any type of truth…. I have nothing to hide , and i posted my new name on my social media sites to update my social circle.”

    That sure seems counterproductive. Making an announcement like that kind of defeats the purpose of changing your name to elude the alleged cyberbullies, no?

    DK said: “Thinking cyberbullying only effects children is just a insane and ignorant comment, it is why the world created titles like trolls, haters and cyberbullies.”

    Well aside from that comment making very little sense, I never said cyberbullying only affects children. But I did say that you sure do kvetch like a little girl about it.

    DK said: “talking about hiding your identity ( now thats funny ).. heck even bragging about how easy it is to hide your IP address.”

    That statement is completely false. I did not “brag”; I stated the simple reality that it is not easy to obtain the IP addresses and identities of internet users because doing so requires a court order and the legal burden for violating privacy is very high, for good reason. You seem to have difficulty understanding very simple statements of fact and continually misrepresent the straightforward comments I have made. That tends t suggest that you are neither an honest person nor an innocent victim.

    DK said: “Finding users on this site are not that hard , seeing as I already found one lady in Canada and one ex MLM guy in Hawaii , and 2 in Iowa. The same people who post over and over again for yrs on multiple sites. Finding users on this site are not that hard…I have not dug into your user name yet but most likely you are one of them already.”

    Was there a threat lurking in there again? I certainly did not cyberstalk you. For some inexplicable reason, you made the choice to come to this site, which I have been posting on for years. Your propensity for leaping onto the sword and pretending to be a victim confirms the worst suspicions about your lack of character.

    DK said: “Ok I am done, and for any rational person reading this they will be able to see through your hateful and emotionally charged comments.”

    More likely they will have their funny bone tickled by your baseless characterization of my comments as hateful and witnessing your pathetic attempts to lionize yourself as an innocent victim of cyberbullying.

    DK said: “I have said my peace and explained my personal journey.”

    Noticeably absent from your comments was any acknowledgement that the cyberstalking, SEO rigging, message board trolling, etc. that you are complaining about are the very same tactics that have been employed over the years by Amway and Orrin Woodward et al. to stifle criticism and harass critics. Such hypocrisy is impossible to overlook.

    DK said: “I will not be spending more time on here.”

    We both know that’s not true. You’ll at least be lurking in the shadows and checking the comments daily.

  38. Joecool permalink
    April 4, 2016 11:07 am

    So I wonder exactly what things were untrue or inaccurately stated about Dean? I haven’t noticed any posters being overly critical about Dean on the internet and I follow news about Amway and Amway leaders.

    Seems that whatever critical information about Dean was verifiable like the non payment of child support which was posted on the State of Washington website at the time.

    Who exactly are these cyber bullies? The only one I can recall being labeled a cyber bully was David Steadson aka IBOFightback (Amway’s most persistent defender) because he kept posting false things about Amway critics, Beth Dornan who is/was an Amway employee was the one who called Steadson a cyber bully.

  39. Joecool permalink
    April 4, 2016 12:46 pm

    This reminds me of when Amway changed their name to “Quixtar”. Turns out it didn’t really help and the Quixtar name was quickly tarnished by the hoards of lies told by their distributors. The most humorous lie often told was that Quixtar had nothing to do with Amway. Eventually the name was officially changed back to Amway. I guess bad press is still better than none.

  40. Vogel permalink
    April 4, 2016 2:07 pm

    Nothing that Dean is saying about his name change adds up. Let’s run the entirety of his comments through the BS detection filter. First, he bristles with outrage that anyone would dare to suggest that he changed his name to create distance from his online persona, stating the following:

    “For all of those who care to listen it is very sad that a few professional internet critics of Amway are trying to insinuate I changed my name to hide my past as Dean Kosage vs launching a new career in a completely different industry…The fact is I have been dealing with a handful of Cyber Bullies for over a decade who tried to defame me with hate statements, false information and posting as multi users. Unfortunately being a leader at one time in Amway put me in the spotlight to get attacked by people who do not like the MLM industry.”

    Paradoxically this comment essentially confirms the very point that drew Dean’s ire (i.e., he’s hiding). He then goes on to elaborate:

    “I changed my name as I already explained above for 2 reasons. The first reason is because when you decide to make a major life or career change it is important to anchor that decision by changing your social circle, and many of the environments that surround you. So by changing my name I could further step into this new path and vision it is a exciting time. This would never hide someones past but only allow them to step into their future goals faster. The second reason is I was dealing with a small group of Cyberbullies who for over 10 years have been slandering me on multiply media platforms. I had a choice to make, take the time to pursue legal action against them and the negative energy surrounding something like that, or i could further my first gaol and just change my name and see if this group of people would finally leave me alone and if they did not then to take legal action.”

    The first reason is sheer bloody lunacy. Every day millions of people undergo major life and career changes but do not change their name as a result (aside from women who get divorced and revert to their maiden names). I have undergone several myself and the thought of changing my name never even crossed my mind for an instant.

    The second reason gets to the crux of the matter. Dean is accusing other people of slandering his good name (cough), going so far as to call their statements “hate comments”, but rather than seek justice, the response he chose was to change his name. Again this makes no sense at all unless the goal was simply to distance his name from the accusations of his critics, absent any legal basis for disputing the claims themselves.

    Dean even goes on to admit that changing his name wouldn’t be effective in distancing himself from his online critics, which begs the question, then why bother changing your name and citing your online critics as one of two main reasons for doing so?

    “This would never hide someones past but only allow them to step into their future goals faster…So insinuating I changed my name to hide something is funny and false…I even posted on all my social media and informed everyone of my name change…I have kept my social media sites up under Dean Kosage to continue to communicate with the thousands of positive people who value my leadership or insights.”

    Dean already admitted that he changed his name in part to hide from his online critics (“just change my name and see if this group of people would finally leave me alone “), but while perusing this strategy he also alleges that he announced the name change online and continues to maintain a site under his old name. So why would changing your name make people suddenly leave you alone when they (and presumably everyone else) still know exactly who you are? It makes no sense whatsoever. Rather than clear up any potential confusion about the name change, Dean has only made the waters muddier. Allow me to translate: people were saying things about him that he didn’t like so he changed his name.

    Next let’s examine Dean’s claims that he has been “stalked, defamed, and slandered.” What examples does he present to back this up? Here is a taste:

    “They started by leveraging a unfortunate night almost 20 yrs ago where my Ex wife went to jail for domestic violence by posted her and her moms police statements from that night (as if they where facts vs lies).”

    Apparently what he really means when he uses the loaded term “leveraging” is simply “posting”, and there’s nothing defamatory or slanderous about posting details from police reports or court documents, as in the example above, or Dean’s appearing on the FBI’s most wanted list as a deadbeat dad, or public records showing that he defaulted on mortgage payments, etc..
    https://amthrax.wordpress.com/2012/05/20/dean-kosage-on-washington-state-division-of-child-support-most-wanted-list/#comment-16816
    https://amthrax.wordpress.com/2012/05/20/dean-kosage-on-washington-state-division-of-child-support-most-wanted-list/

    Ironically, when Dean indulges in the sort of crass braggadocio exemplified by this homemade YouTube video…

    …but it turns out that he’s actually a deadbeat, then he’s pretty much begging for the backlash.

    Now let’s turn to a couple of other interesting comments that Dean made:

    “I am now following the advice of my legal team. The first step was to post something and to clear up some of the most obvious mis information so that if any user post something false after the fact I would have a new record of it and they could be held liable.”

    “But I do think the public deservers to know who the main 4- 5 anti Dean users really are and what they are really doing on multi sites and under multi user names.”

    I can’t imagine any scenario where a “legal team” would counsel a client in Dean’s situation to bolster his cyberbullying case by posting inane comments on an anti-Amway website, making vague threats of legal action, or stating that he’s going to out the people who are criticizing him. None of that makes sense. One doesn’t make a case for being a victim of cyberstalking by leaping onto the sword like that, behaving in a threatening manner, or by trying to intimidate people into silence. If anything, it’s Dean that appears to be the cyberstalker.

  41. April 4, 2016 2:09 pm

    Closing comments on this thread. Thanks to all who have participated in this discussion.

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