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Orrin Woodward on the MLM Reformation

July 2, 2012

Orrin Woodward must think he’s some kind of Martin Luther on a mission to have Ninety-Five Blog Posts extolling his virtues as an MLM Whistleblower and Reformer. Frankly, I don’t see how Orrin is selling anything but modern day indulgences. What is the function of the TEAM tools, the LIFE products, and the endless seminars and meetings? Certainly, it’s to promote being a better person, yadda yadda yadda. Yet, within these tools lies a more insidious purpose: to distract people from recognizing the simple truth that they are not making any money after expenses in this business. Modern day indulgences such as these keep people hooked into believing that a better future is just a tool away, a book away, or a seminar away.

Don’t be fooled.

Look at your profits and loss statements each month and decide if this is truly worth the continued investment of your time and money.

Far from trying to reform the MLM industry, Orrin Woodward has simply slapped a new coat of paint on the same business he’s been hawking for years when at Amway and MonaVie. The one big difference between his time at those two companies is that he now runs his own MLM. He’s the Pope, President, and Supreme TEAM Leader all rolled into one and answerable to no one.

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80 Comments leave one →
  1. Whirlwinded permalink
    July 2, 2012 10:33 am

    It’s saddening.. very saddening. The friend that disowned me & read me the riot act back in January is still going full force with putting TEAM / LIEF (especially Dan Hawkins) on a pedestal. Friends have been contacting me recently asking me if I know him (they don’t) saying he’s sending friend requests even though he’s never spoke to any of them before in his life. No doubt he’s rooting out through others to expand the number of potentials to join TEAM / LIEF. I guess the questions I ask myself every day as I shake my head is when does this all end? It seems that us ex TEAM / LIEFers, & the general public have no group, laws, or anything to back us up. if only there was a way to expose their lies on a national level (like national news) or get some help from the BBB, labor boards, etc. I’d like to think this will end soon, but considering how long MLM’s have been around I don’t forsee it happening. 😦

  2. Speak Your Truth permalink
    July 2, 2012 11:56 am

    Amtrhax and Whirlwinded…very sad!

    95 Blog Posts…Seriously??
    The games continue. A little over-kill wouldn’t you say. Good for the google bombing!!!! The most disturbing is orrin is such a narcissist, imo.. that he put this up to point to himself because he wants others to ‘believe’ and give him credit (as he can count on the worshipping comments from the followers &PC.. for the Amway Lawsuit (whistleblower)?!…hello mc-fly there were many books and whistleblowers/critics before orrin’s so called… bogus whistle blowing..or self-proclaimed heroism and orrin knew it!

    The real reason orrin became a so called whistleblower?…He sued Quixtar/Amway and lost but wants the credit? I think hindsight makes this very clear…he sued because he had no other choice or so he thought…to protect his own multimillions from his training company where the majority of his income game from! He knew what was coming from Q/A that they were gonna control his training business, just see what Amway has done now, no doubt was with the help of the Porkony lawsuit…NOT orrins… it should be clear!

    Funny when he was happy with Q/A during his decade and half…making tens if not hundreds of millions between Amway/Quixtar and his own training.and it was the best business bar none…he was trying to get revenge by going anonymous with his Qrush blog (Christian man?)..and was all for Quixtar/Amway, then all of a sudden when he found out his tool company would be controlled he created and controlled a smear Champaign Against the Whistleblowers and Quixtar/Amway!!! Common sense!

    He spent numerous hours of other paid employee’s and his time trying to silence and tear down the real whistleblowers for years and he now wants credit for being a whistleblower?!!……The guy is a piece of work!

    It is quite amazing those who call themselves “leaders” especially the PC…who prove nothing more than stroking of orrins and each others ego’s and to be blind followers, who repeat and post what Simon (orrin woodward) says and link all the blogs togther and moron can see this!

    None of them are LEADERS! They can’t even think on their own, including the PC…just read the comments on anyone of these misleaders sites…they all attack the whistleblower/critic and repeat the same ego stroking… idolizing comments right down to the same words being used by them all…but then no surprise it is a TOP down authoritarian whisper campaign and is how you can tell what orrin woodward is telling his followers behind the scenes…because they just repeat without thought…too sad!

    You can’t say you are “developing leaders” well, you can say it til your blue in the face but no one believes it and the ‘results?’..Your “proven results” (developed leaders?) know how to copy and paste your blog posts and certainly prove they only follow….That is NOT “developing leaders”…that is developing and groomed BLIND FOLLOWERS and the only ones who think orrin is a hero and whistleblower because orrin told them he was!

    I don’t know about anyone else…but I wouldn’t want people to just say things because that is the only thing the culture allows. They can’t even be true to themselves..very sad!

  3. Speak Your Truth permalink
    July 2, 2012 12:03 pm

    Funny I just went to wiki about that same whistle blowers definition a while back and was going to post it here because it describes the comments, the videos, and our experiences and fits Amthrax and facts on his site to a “Tee”!

    “Mobbing & Bullying”…you can find those tactics used in examples on exteamers on this site…for sure!!

  4. Former Round Table permalink
    July 2, 2012 12:29 pm

    Holy crap, this guy literally describes everything wrong that he is doing, and then takes credit for cleaning things up! He and his followers are suffering from severe HUB disease. (Head Up Butt disease). He calls “community building” an industry, then says it’s not an industry, then calls it an industry once again. And can someone PLEASE tell me how $15 per month for the right to access a stupid website (the “Electronic Business Center” – Puh leeze) is such a great deal. Orrin’s definition of truth: “If Orrin says it, it is the truth.” I could go on and on, but I do not want to waste any more of my time.

    A woman at our church said it beautifully when I asked her why she didn’t leave when the rest of the team-bots fled. She replied, “Well, they were telling us we were supposed to be leaders, but it looked like everyone was just following.”

    Go figure.

  5. Former Round Table permalink
    July 2, 2012 12:36 pm

    Also, so what if they pay out 70% to the comp plan–how much of that does anybody actually receive? That 70% includes what is paid to Orrin, Brady, Marks, etc. What is really relevant is, how much is paid out to those NOT on the PC? Maybe…2%?

  6. Mike Collins permalink
    July 2, 2012 1:15 pm

    Please allow me to quote a few segments of “o’s” blog post:

    “Opposed to our revolutionizing the industry is, of course, ANYONE WHO WANTS THINGS TO STAY AS THEY ARE…….”

    This includes ENTRENCHED competitors and those who work for them or PROSPER BY THEIR POSITION, ………………… It also includes those who are charging too much money
    AND THOSE WHO HAVE themselves in A “SWEET SPOT” OF PROFITABILITY that is really

    NOT FAIR (i.e. they are keeping a DISPROPORTIONATE AMOUNT OF THE PROFITS AND NOT SHARING EQUITABLY WITH THE FIELD).”

    And the following response: Those of you who might be taken in with this self-labeled reformer may want to spend 20-30 minutes looking at the Lief compensation breakdown:https://amthrax.wordpress.com/2012/06/25/mike-collins-presentation-on-the-life-compensation-plan/

    And ask yourselves if there are any correlations between “o’s” post and the ACTUAL payout in the LIEF compensation plan. Do you see a pattern????????????

    Seriously, can someone please explain to me HOW: out of a group of 300 people, 200 of them will never earn a $7.50 check from the network AND

    HOW, out of 300 participants, a maximum number of 15 can actually earn enough from the network to just break even on a $50 subscription

    AND FINALLY

    HOW fully 70% of ALL compensation dollars paid are reserved for ONLY 5% of participants

    AND YET

    “o” is delusional enough to think this ridiculous model is different than the models he is badmouthingin his post?

    I was told that “o” is very intelligent. How can someone so intelligent no see that this comp plan is no different than 99% of his competitors? He is either A. not as smart as I was led to believe he was or

    B. Knows exactly what he is doing and is a liar……..

  7. Former Round Table permalink
    July 2, 2012 1:53 pm

    The answer is B. He knows EXACTLY what he is doing and is a liar.

    I once considered Orrin and his wife among my closest friends. Now I wouldn’t sit in the same room with either of them. The blinders came off and I see them for what they are–lying, scamming, opportunistic thieves.

  8. Speak Your Truth permalink
    July 2, 2012 2:30 pm

    I have to agree with Former Round Table about choice B…We have had a similar experience and our sentiments exactly.

    Although if you ask “o” he would go on and on about how great he is no matter where he has someone’s captive attention, he wants others to repeat he is a ‘genius’ (can’t have it both ways) and how everyone in the world thinks he is too….definitely delusional and self-deceived.

  9. Mike Collins permalink
    July 2, 2012 2:49 pm

    Hey folks!
    I just thought I would give you all an update on the Lief video series. YouTube has a feature that includes analytics that allows you to see the geographical area in which the videos are being watched.

    Here are the top 7 countries so far. Remember, the video was only published June 19, 2012 and Amthrax put up the link here on June 25, 2012

    The video has had 330 views

    Here is a list of the top countries for number of views:
    1. United States 289
    2. Canada 30
    3. Sweden 4
    4. France 3
    5. Mexico 2
    6. Singapore 1
    7. India 1
    Here is a breakdown of the U.S. by state:
    1. Michigan 74
    2. California 73
    3. Idaho 25
    4. Wisconsin 20
    5. Illinois 15
    6. Texas 13
    7. Maryland 9
    8. South Dakota 6
    9. Missouri 5
    10. Tennessee 5
    11. Pennsylvania 4
    12. Florida 4
    13. Georgia 4
    14. Minnesota 3
    15. Utah 3
    16. South Carolina 3
    17. Arizona 3
    18. Kansas 3
    19. Ohio 3
    20. Washington 2
    21. Indiana 2
    22 .Iowa 2
    23. Colorado 2
    24. New York 2
    25. Massachusetts 1

  10. Speak Your Truth permalink
    July 2, 2012 3:04 pm

    And He and his other yes men/followers want you to believe everyone else is greedy?…Plu eeze…I believe the real greedy clearly stand out….it is self evident with his comp plan, 3 million dollar (wanted to be kept secret) loan or not dependent on if he met his recruiting goals, his top paid postition at Monavie..special deal, charging 10 dollars a CD!!! When they pay lip service to being the best prices etc.. shell companies all the rest of the non-transparent profit-sharing pay out or what profit is even put in the profit sharing, and on and on… that orrin woodard keeps secret..perhaps there is an orrin factor that no one knows about…it sure raises questions from those who have been involved….people who have nothing to ‘hide’…..HIDE NOTHING.

  11. Speak Your Truth permalink
    July 2, 2012 3:07 pm

    Thanks Mike that is awesome!!!…people are at least seeing the ‘real’ facts! Can’t argue with the numbers…they don’t lie!

  12. Speak Your Truth permalink
    July 2, 2012 3:18 pm

    I have also seen a testimony to orrin woodward paying himself 500-600,000 dollars Per MONTH during the time the supposed ‘profit-sharing’ was down…all the while collecting on a ‘autoshipped’ donations to orrin’s legal fund?!!!

    Obviously orrin was paying himself PLENTY!!! While he expected everyone else to sacrifice and go broke and even some of his loyalist were going completely down… Bankrupt!!…Any moron could see who and where the greed lies in that senerio!

  13. webelieved permalink
    July 2, 2012 4:13 pm

    B. The answer is B.

  14. webelieved permalink
    July 2, 2012 4:14 pm

    I bet many of his blind followers have no idea how much he was getting paid while he was starving some of his leaders…..what a scum bag!

  15. webelieved permalink
    July 2, 2012 4:16 pm

    Of course many of the blind followers have no idea how he was starving SOME of his leaders. How I wait for the day his books are cracked open and team leaders paychecks are supeanoed. That will be a good day!

  16. Mike Collins permalink
    July 2, 2012 4:37 pm

    I have one more question, but this is for

    Mr. Orrin Woodward:

    Are you enjoying this, man of God?

  17. Unplugged permalink
    July 2, 2012 4:58 pm

    So how many on the blog compete with Life and have a competing interest and charge money to enjoy the blog as we are all Capitalists?

    We were told that the people on this site were Amway people trying to get people away from the Team.

    From what I have observed is these folks are just sharing their experiences from Team and whatever company they were partnered with when they were on the Team.

  18. Brent Hansen permalink
    July 2, 2012 5:25 pm

    “Protect the Public Interest” Orrin, you are completely full of shit!

  19. webelieved permalink
    July 2, 2012 5:40 pm

    Unplugged- You are right. We are sharing our experiences. We were Round Tables in Team when they were a training company, while the leaders were secretly making majority of their money from the tool company “Team” (while they were supposed to be representing/ selling Amway/Quixtar the whole time.) They called the business Team and Quixtars name never mentioned, they were called only a “supplier” and we were told by our PC we could go anywhere when we were big enough! They didn’t even say the Quixtar/Amway name at recruiting meetings for YEARS, they only talked of the Team! Then we were in Team alone selling leadership for over 6 months which didn’t work at all for the majority of people, then everyone followed Orrin into Monavie where the Team was again a tool/training company. Now they just took the Team, seperated the tools, and turned it into LIFE.

    I will never sell another MLM idea/product again. I feel that Amway/Quixtar were equally guilty in allowing Orrin Woodward and his training company TEAM to blantanly lie to and decieve distributors while the company looked the other way for years! Orrin left because apparantly they were cracking down on his tool company. ( Amway finally got caught in the Porkny case and have to pay restitution soon.)
    Monavie of course has done the same, looked the other way to a lot of abuses Orrin is pulling currently. Of course Orrin was given 3+ million to come to MV, which was never disclosed to the distributors when he said he did a benchmarking study and said this is the best company ever, and MV had no problem taking an already made group from another mlm.

    They all are crooks in my book!

  20. webelieved permalink
    July 2, 2012 5:41 pm

    Brent and Mike- LMAO!

  21. webelieved permalink
    July 2, 2012 5:43 pm

    I wouldn’t work for Amway even if they paid me a lot! I’m only working for principle here and donate my time and energy for the good of mankind. 🙂

  22. webelieved permalink
    July 2, 2012 5:54 pm

    Unplugged- I find it funny that they think people would believe we worked for Amway. HAVE PEOPLE SERIOUSLY NOT READ THE LINK TO ANNA BANNANA? She HATES AMWAY! or the link to MERCHANTS OF DECEPTION. Clearly we do not support Amway in any way. I cannot believe that his leaders call him a Christian leader and then see him blatantly lie, and they know it, AND then they repeat that lie. When the whole world can see it is a lie, red herring. Have they lost their minds?

  23. webelieved permalink
    July 2, 2012 5:56 pm

    THEY ALL LOOK LIKE COMPLETE FOOLS AND LIARS! It seems the devil is trying to appear as light. WOW. These guys clearly have no conscience left……really scary.

  24. Speak Your Truth permalink
    July 2, 2012 6:07 pm

    Brent & Mike~ LOL I think orrin was referring to Amthrax and the comments on here who are the ‘whistleblowers protecting the Public interest’…it is the only logical conclusion that would be remotely close to the truth.

    Unplugged~ Lmao…It doesn’t matter what I choose to do (other than MLM which I will NEVER do again)..so ‘competitor’ haha….I would have to chose to be a deceiver and be a fraudster to be in “competition”….no thanks, I chose my integrity over that scamming profession long ago without one regret of leaving when the veil was ripped to shreds for us!

    I already commeted on their ridiculous spreading of that Amway… LIE…but if Amway would out of the goodness of their heart like to pay for us for yucks…. as the PC and others are implying, and with their name calling of “Amway Drones”…Amway can send my check..HAHA… directly to Amthrax for his time…because I gladly “Protect the Public Interest” For FREE and have since I have been on here!

    We tell our experience with orrin woodward and that includes Amway/Quitar (which by the way is absurb that Amway would pay us…we aren’t exactly helping their reputation! Why would Amway pay us to share what doesn’t bring a good light on them either AND they won the lawsuit against orrin….they have bigger problems to solve!!

    I highly doubt they are worried about little orrin woodward and his LIEf MLM as “competing”…because their is no competition with someone who has copied what Amway did> makes no logical sense!!! I don’t doubt they know orrin doesn’t need an ounce of their help…he and his minions are doing a fine job of destroying their own business and reputation all on their own with their LIES, comp plan and P & P!!

    As I said it is nothing but LIES…they know without a shaddow of doubt those on here DON”T ‘work for Amway’! Some Christians they are, I don’t recall ever reading that LYING is in the Bible as something pleasing to God, nor is it a “Christian” principle!

  25. Speak Your Truth permalink
    July 2, 2012 6:11 pm

    Webelieved~

    “Have they lost their minds?”… You wonder right? Nothing else makes sense! LOL

  26. Brent Hansen permalink
    July 2, 2012 6:12 pm

    They had to leave Monavie, there is no money there and Monavie has internalized their training system. No juice sales = no money, no tool sales = no money, no money = more bankruptcies, more bankruptcies = no more team. The writing was on the wall, and Team merely employed an exit strategy that helped both sides save face.

    Monavie’s new “internal training” website. http://www.monavie.com/mvp

    Monavie’s new comp plan, look closely at the 9th way of making money, it includes tool sales to all “qualified” blue diamonds and above.

    http://media.monavie.com/pdf/us/compensation_plan_en.pdf

    I heard that exposingmlm.com is doing a new video on this, can’t wait to see it.

  27. webelieved permalink
    July 2, 2012 6:15 pm

    Just as we have been guessing was happening
    all along…….. Now the Team has to sink or swim on their own…..i would guess they need a some scuba gear….about now.

  28. Speak Your Truth permalink
    July 2, 2012 6:21 pm

    Brent~

    Right on! Oh sounds somewhat familiar and the reason I believe why they left Amway/Quixtar…anytime they get a whif of or if it starts to crumble they scatter like cockroachs in light or they ‘fear’ losing their tool scam…they run out of fear…it must suck to live a life of fear and scarcity mentally…it is like trying to hang on to water…it all eventually catches up and there is no more places to run!

    If LIEf fails would seem a good possibility with the education on their comp plan…who wants that losing proposition…. where will they run to then…out of the country?

  29. Speak Your Truth permalink
    July 2, 2012 6:26 pm

    Wow 1 in 300? I don’t play the scratch off games but You would be better off playing the scratch off lottery game at least you would get your investment back way before you hit 300! Haha.

  30. Speak Your Truth permalink
    July 2, 2012 6:33 pm

    oops should have said 15 out of 300 to break even!

  31. Unplugged permalink
    July 2, 2012 6:35 pm

    I am also offended at the Orrin post “In the meantime, those who want to protect the status quo” and yes I know I only choose to be offended I got it.

    What I have read here that none of these people commenting on this are lazy or don’t care about the world we live in. I for sure want to change the world, but just not in Team anymore. So no status quo for me.

    How many of you are successful after your involvement in the TEAM business? I know I am taking a lot of good stuff from it how bout you guys?

  32. Unplugged permalink
    July 2, 2012 6:36 pm

    Meant to say “not Lazy” slip of the keyboard m bad.

  33. Speak Your Truth permalink
    July 2, 2012 6:39 pm

    BTW~ Sorry for all the misspelled words!

  34. webelieved permalink
    July 2, 2012 6:43 pm

    If we didn’t care about the world we would have went on our way. I will be taking what I learned in my real life and starting a business eventually. No status quo for me, I want to get my money the hard way, earn it legitimately, not by lying and manipulating people in a destructive group! I also don’t judge success by money and material things. I will be making a real difference in the world one person at a time wherever I am.

  35. webelieved permalink
    July 2, 2012 6:48 pm

    There are things people say and do that one has a legitimate right to be offended by.
    You should be offended and so should every free thinking person. It is ok to be offended, that is another indoctrination they use to get you to conform and not think about, have an opinion on, have a feeling about, or voice your objections and Orrin uses this to the hilt to control people’s thinking!
    Sorry I get upset when people use their teaching to put guilt on themselves.

  36. webelieved permalink
    July 2, 2012 7:13 pm

    What Orrin Woodward said are manipulations of guilt and loser messages he has to send to control his followers. I don’t buy into his bulls^*t messages anymore. I don’t judge people like they do based on if they work in the group or not, I don’t need to. It is an us vs them message the same as cults use.
    .It is a lie people are only valuable if they are in the Team group. Sending to message that people outside the TEam/Lief are just status quo, losers etc. is ridiculous, but it is the message Orrin would like to send. What a clown. 🙂

  37. July 2, 2012 7:45 pm

    @Speak – 95 Blog Posts was a humorous attempt to compare Martin Luther’s seminal Ninety-Five Theses with Orrin’s numerous blog posts in which he casts himself as an MLM Reformer. It was not meant to be interpreted literally that Orrin has written 95 blog posts on the subject.

  38. webelieved permalink
    July 2, 2012 7:51 pm

    he may have 95 copycat sites!LOL!

  39. webelieved permalink
    July 3, 2012 3:25 am

    Speak- Run like cockroaches! That was funny!

  40. mesha permalink
    July 3, 2012 4:08 am

    Lol…when I read this I thought Orrin really did have 95 blog posts. Seems like it at times

  41. I QUIT (and glad I did) permalink
    July 3, 2012 4:10 am

    It looks as if Owen thinks he’s the one who came up with the first commandment. That dude is nuts. To think I once respected him. (Puke in mouth)

  42. webelieved permalink
    July 3, 2012 4:30 am

    Quit- lol! Isn’t it scary!

  43. Speak Your Truth permalink
    July 3, 2012 7:24 am

    Amthrax~

    Haha got ya!

    Funny, I have seen some jabs thrown around by the PC (saying for some people (critics) that it “seems they have a full time job” and I don’t know exactly how many blogs orrin alone has (I have not counted but it’s A LOT as you have pointed before), there are numerous ones, add that to the PC and it seems they are adding new ones all the time. And although you are being humorous, we do know this is all part of their google-bombing to try and drown out the truth from the top of the search engines…We know they don’t want your site anywhere on the 1st page…funny that would be a full-time job in it self!!!

    They play this game in hopes the ‘newbies’ or anyone else in or outside (potentional prospects) of LIEf will only see orrin in an illusionary light…others idolizing..praise & worshipping orrin. That is obvious!

    The only place, I have ever witnessed… from experience, that has this extreme over-the-top praising is in the MLM industry, and of course it is the same with cult-leaders.

    They are linking all of ‘followers’ blogs together, which has been orrin’s standard operating procedure (google bombing) …his Qrush Blog and then the Q/Amway smear champaign!

    So for the PC who want to jab and think they are degrading others by saying this is a full-time job..that message is for you..check the mirror and with your master he has more blogs than everyone put together!! The hypocrisy of the liefers is astounding!

    And as far as I am concerned this isn’t a ‘full-time’ job…it is an obligation and an honor to “Protect the Public Interest”.. and unlike the LIEfer bloggers we don’t have a monetary agenda based out of fear of ‘losing’ our ill-gotten gains…. we gladly do this for FREE!

  44. July 3, 2012 7:28 am

    Every single blog post that Orrin writes can be described in two words: “Red Herring”.

    Every premise he comes up with is inflated and strategically spiteful…like his ego…and the sheeple that are his followers eat it up like he’s some sort of prophet. It’s easy to notice his inflated sense of self-worth in the hyperbolic language he uses. He uses black and white ‘logic’…us vs. them propositions and identifications with historical figures of which he misappropriates for his own persuasive intentions to manipulate his audience.

    It’s seems Orrin’s M.O. is to take a criticism of MLM and LIEF/TEAM and manipulate it to seem like he is the altruistic one.

    My jaw dropped a bit when i read this…the hypocrisy is astounding: “…those who want to protect the status quo, for whatever motivation, behave by throwing stones, misappropriating the truth, mounting smear campaigns, and nearly anything else you can think of in the book of unfair play.”

    Ummm…how many of us have been to a seminar, convention, listened to a CD, or talked to a Teammunist where they gave little jabs and insults about “95%ers”, or “quitters are losers”…they see themselves as ‘special’ above anyone who is not in TEAM. Orrin et. al. use us vs. them language every chance they get. I’ve heard Claude make condescending ‘jokes’ in every talk he’s ever given thus further isolating the individual; either you’re with us, or you’re one of the people we’re making jokes about.

  45. Speak Your Truth permalink
    July 3, 2012 7:29 am

    Mesha & Webelieved~

    95 blogs…Give them time, orrin is working over-time or paying someone to do his dirty work…We probably just set them a new ‘goal’ of 95 blogs…lol

  46. Speak Your Truth permalink
    July 3, 2012 7:58 am

    NJ~

    WHA-Bam!

    That is 100% dead on! They bash, degrade, criticize, judge, and condemn Everyone and Everything outside of their cult-like environment…Bosses, Corp America, Government, Spouses, Family members, Other Training Systems, Other ‘life coaches’, In-laws (outlaws), anything or anyone who does not agree or isn’t a part of their cult..Their ideology, ‘group think’, their beliefs..etc.

    All leadership, rules, laws, standards, etc….only apply to the outside world, and in their twisted thinking “the end justifies the means”…so therefore, none of it applies to them!!

    I found it amusing but twisted orrin (in his mind) is at war in the ‘market place?’ Not sure how their even in competition with anyone else ;except for ‘prospects’ new & existing and their own upline, downline, and the PC, They compete with each other, including prospects from other MLM’s!..That is the cut-throat MLM world and their only competitors!

    Mike, Brent and others have pointed out they are NOT above the rest and the comp plan video’s clearly point this out…and then add in their over-priced, recycled, rebranded, old Amway talks.

    Orrin claims they have ‘changed’ all those things that were ‘bad’ in the 4 areas of MLM! Funny they are still operating with their methods and practices (bashing, lying, and deception, gaming, google-bombing, bullying & mobbing) seems that hasn’t changed a bit. One thing that has changed for sure, Is their prices went UP!

  47. Brent Hansen permalink
    July 3, 2012 8:43 am

    Can any current Team/Life member or former member substantiate or validate this statement written by orrin?

    “3. World-class Team community training to LIFE members, helping LIFE to revolutionize the four above-mentioned industries. Specifically, Team provides two CDs/week and two websites – an Electronic Business Center and Personal Home Page for $15 per month. Furthermore, Team provides live and webinar training at Opens and Seminars for anyone on the LIFE Open and Seminar subscriptions at no additional costs. The total training price, in other words, for Team opens, seminars, CDs and websites is only $65 dollars per month!”

    A bit confusing here, are the “live and webinar training at opens and seminars” an additional cost, or aren’t they an additional cost?

    Is the total training price for opens, seminars, cds, and websites $65 a month, or is it much more?

    Not that this would change the compensation plan or anything, but I read a previous post which indicated that opens and seminars had seen a price increase. Just trying to determine what the actually cost of the following would be.

    1. Minimum Subscription to participate in the compensation plan $50, correct?

    2. Cost of the “websites”?

    3. Cost of monthly seminar tickets?

    4. Cost of the weekly open meetings?

    Is this all really $65?

  48. webelieved permalink
    July 3, 2012 8:48 am

    SPEAK! That is funny……..PRICES UP When information is getting cheaper everyday! If Orrin REALLY cared about his supposed purpose he would offer downloads for pennies/ nothing! He is just paying lip service to making a difference, saving the world with his information! Obviously by the comp plan and his PRICES GOING UP, he is ABOUT THE MONEY FOR THE TOP!

    Gotta love the internet and freedom of information, hey!

  49. Speak Your Truth permalink
    July 3, 2012 8:56 am

    Brent~

    Maybe Amthrax can help, I know there are a few recent detailed comments on the costs, but can’t remember at the moment who wrote them. It may have been soon to be out or unplugged?

    It is my understanding that LIEF and Team are seperate subscription costs and the seminars and opens have always been seperate costs. I am not sure if you can find out those costs from the websites?

  50. July 3, 2012 9:01 am

    @Brent – the $65 appears to be for TEAM-related tools and meetings, not the LIFE products themselves. To participate in the LIFE compensation plan, it’s a minimum of $50. Add them up, and it’s $115/month to participate in TEAM/LIFE. If you add in the “optional” tools, you’re looking at even more per month.

    To justify buying even more tools than the minimum, TEAM/LIFE members will parrot the familiar refrain, “The tools are optional, but so is success.”

  51. Speak Your Truth permalink
    July 3, 2012 9:11 am

    Brent~

    Perhaps Bill Lewis could help you out…He says Orrin tells EXACTLY what his business is and therefore he should be able to list ALL costs in black and white and you would think ALL costs would be listed on their websites!

    Builders KNOW orrin is speaking of the VERY minimum, the MFC is 220 dollars alone without all other exspenses and xtra tools and subscriptions..

    This is the standard way orrin communicates. he knows he never promotes anything as not “all in” they all promote and you won’t be ‘successful’ if you don’t follow the system and treat it like a business..not a hobby which if you are NOT buying EVERYTHING then you are not all in and treating your business, as a Hobby!

    Power Player IS the required standard for anyone to be consider a ‘leader’ or to become successful in their system and that means you have required BUYING of all on the PP list…which consists of all packages and more.

    Just like always they make it sound simple, not much time needed to invest, low cost, low risk…which is very misleading and he wonders why others call him and others MIS LEADERS!? Because that is exactly what they do they mislead!…It is standard to confuse and mislead!

    I have never seen anyone in the team system make even a pittance of a profit that wasn’t a Power Player!

  52. webelieved permalink
    July 3, 2012 9:13 am

    Brent we know rarely if EVER was anyone successfully making a PROFIT without going all in Power Player Program over and over for years of time. They never tell you all the expenses up front when they recruit you. They never tell you it’s a build and replace business. New people are led into the group a bit at a time….. one thing to the next. That is the deception. If it was a legit Christian, transparent and honest business, they would tell prospects ALL THE EXPENSES UP FRONT so they could make an informed decision.

  53. Speak Your Truth permalink
    July 3, 2012 9:15 am

    Their own profit-sharing requirements…. forced spending for the profit-sharer and their teams.

  54. Brent Hansen permalink
    July 3, 2012 9:35 am

    Call me naive if you will, but are Team and Life operating independently of each other? I just assumed that they were synonymous now, am I incorrect?

    @Amthrax are Life and Team cds separate cds? Are the “optional” Team cds counted as compensation volume, or is that merely another profit center for the veneer leaders?

  55. Unplugged permalink
    July 3, 2012 10:57 am

    I thought I would re-post this.

    200 points costs this much now:

    1. $50 for Life Subscription 50 PV which includes 4 $10 CD’s and a Book that you might or might not already have.
    2. $50 for LLR Subscription 50 PV which includes 4 $10 CD’s and a Book that you might or might not already have.
    3. $25 for AGO Subscription 25 PV which includes 1 $10 CD and a AGO Book
    4. $10 for EDGE Series 10PV that has been out 3 months targeted at Teens to Young Adults good material 1st one was of Chris Brady doing the Mel Fischer Story and Orrin on the 2nd one of his famous Candy bar Sales Story and Running Stories from School. The 3rd one was of Brady interviewing a Pro Soccer Star. Good principles.
    5. $80 for Opens 40PV which is $40 for 20 PV for each person in order for you and your Spouse to attend the opens cause at the Live events they check you in that way or if you are not on the list $10 Cash you will need and no PV for you ?
    6. $80 for Seminars 40 PV which is $40 for 20 PV for each person starting in July.
    7. Or you can just move a 220 PV $220 MFC to someone and take care of all that too, but a All in member would be on All the above.

    Grand total of $320 for 215 PV to be all in. Before the Seminars you would have to make up 25 PV somewhere to continue to Trip Track which could come from any Major LIFE materials you purchase at the Major like for April that Trip Tracked you for May.

    This does not include Major tickets which are $150 now but if you buy them at the Major for the next Major they are $125 for now.

    The Only thing left on the TEAM System side is 8 CD’s a month at $6 each plus the $15 a month EBC. Plus all the tools you will need on the TEAM side to build your business like 1st night 2nd night packs and so on.. Not much left for profit sharing on the TEAM Side. The thing is sense most things are on the LIFE product side what is left to deduct from your taxes now? But I am not an accountant by trade.

    All and all especially looking at Tax returns the Bonus money from any of the Companies have not caused a profit. The new LIFE comp plan is the most generous I have seen though and the Customer requirement is a good idea, but very hard to get one on the LIFE Product alone.

  56. Speak Your Truth permalink
    July 3, 2012 11:06 am

    Thanks Unplugged for your time and effort!!

    I was just searching for that post and found this one also from you. This post shows some of the xtras and although it is as Amthrax reminded everyone it is ‘optional’ but so is your success”…it is what the PC and others expect ‘leaders’ to buy and promote, we know this would add up to more than $65 alone! 🙂

    Unplugged permalink

    June 26, 2012 12:45 pm

    Hey don’t forget that they change the CD’s in the packs all the time so you need to re-tool yet again, but now instead of using a $10 LIFE CD wit PV you can use a $6 TEAM CD.
    This Just in.

    Effective immediately, we have added a second CD into the 1st Night Pack (TL 142A).

    Includes:

    * Book – The Business of Life by Chris Brady and Orrin Woodward
    * Brochure – TL 197A Define, Learn, Do (single copy)
    * CD – New! – TEAM 647 – Success Begins with the Right Information – Orrin & Laurie Woodward
    * CD – TEAM 648 – The LIFE You’ve Always Wanted – Chris & Terri Brady

    TEAM 647 – Success Begins with the Right Information is also now available to purchase as a single.

    TEAM 647 – Success Begins with the Right Information – Orrin & Laurie Woodward
    In this talk, best selling author Orrin Woodward may as well be a stand up comedian. Accompanied by his beautiful wife, Laurie, this duo is unbeatable. This talk is powerful like a speeding bullet… You’ll want to stock up your ammunition belt and have a hundred copies of this one! Not sure how to crack a tough new contact? You will after this. Contagious, convincing and solid as a rock! Get it now

    As my Boss said “Stay strong Neo. Take the red pill””

  57. webelieved permalink
    July 3, 2012 11:12 am

    Unplugged- I was trying to find your post. Thanks for copying it.
    You said the life plan is the most generous you have seen.. I was wondering what other comp plans you have been a part ? Also just curious if you still feel Life is gernerous after seeing Mike’s Comp Videos?

  58. webelieved permalink
    July 3, 2012 11:14 am

    As a Power Player we were buying first night and second night packs left and right. Those are part of the Team profit sharing. hmm……

  59. Brent Hansen permalink
    July 3, 2012 11:15 am

    So is the $65 figure merely part of their PFA (plucked from air) accounting? Does anyone know if Team & Life are two separate entities, and can one earn from the sell / purchase of Team cds as well?

    Thanks Unplugged, I saw your post previously, just couldn’t remember where. Didn’t you post somewhere as well that you needed 200 PV to be a Power Player as well?

  60. Speak Your Truth permalink
    July 3, 2012 11:27 am

    You must have every ‘new’ item; although most is just an expanded version or repeat of the same ole messages and book reports…You are “NOT a leader” if you don’t purchase all the ‘New Materials’!

    The blasted messages is another cult tactic of guilting you with their constant rhertoric of: “you are not a leader” or “example is the only thing”…or “you can tell a leader by the size of his trunk”, “leaders attend all events” etc, etc..all the messages are sent to guilt you into buying (or you aren’t a leader) and although it is an option the real message is you won’t be successful with every flippin new and old thing they come out with!

    From the PC/RT agenda and their main goal is…To get PAID.. for everyone else buying every item they spend their hard earned dollars on! Oh they say it is to ‘change your life’…you decide…but make sure your adding every penny you are spending vs. return and then compare it to how it is “changing your life!”

  61. webelieved permalink
    July 3, 2012 11:36 am

    Brent- As far as Team you can be voted into and out of profit sharing as a director and above. It used to be you had to be a turbo 25 on tickets/12 on system in each leg. Who knows now….. since everything went to a good ole boys club and teams were moved around on a whim.

  62. webelieved permalink
    July 3, 2012 11:39 am

    Team Profit Sharing used to be based on performance and now it seems to be based on percieved loyalty to the supreme leader. Orrin also was fixing the numbers in that pot and it was reported there are witnesses to that. He said there was a secret formula but if they didn’t think you were working hard enough apparantly he would cut your pay. Now of course when we were in Q/A we were never told about this special pay. Once you were a Platnim this pay was larger then your Q/A pay! Of course prospects had no idea when we would take them up to the tool table that we got a cut. So deceptive. It was the same in MV as well.

  63. webelieved permalink
    July 3, 2012 11:41 am

    OF course the PC, unknown to the masses, made most of their money/lifestyle on selling tools and that was always their focus. At Round Table the tool money was three times as much as Q/A pay was.

  64. Speak Your Truth permalink
    July 3, 2012 11:53 am

    Brent~

    I am sure You and Mike would find this analysis interesting apparently he is MORE qualified at studing numbers and the LIEf comp plan. So perhaps you have the patience to decipher whether this includes the ‘team’ or just ‘life’, I am thinking they are paying out of LIEf and Team is just another source of income for only a few of course..but what do I know and quite frankly don’t give a rip…the numbers speak for themselves regardless I believe it is a bad business opportunity for ROI not to mention all the other junk.

    Feel Free to compare Claudes analysis and go through numbers..lol…How many blogs do these guys have? Holy Smokes..I am beggining to think 95 isn’t a stretch at all..lol

    Apparently Claude is the LIEf expert on the compensation plan because he was an “Amway Diamond” and now a “large business owner in LIEF”….After all. according to him what does the chirpping..haha… Amway Drones know.. who criticized the LIFE compensation plan, that are just ignorant…and apparently no one else could possibly understand the comp plan because have never been involved in LIFE or had any level of success in Amway? Haha!!

    Have fun! 🙂

    http://claude-hamilton.com/2012/05/30/life-business-compensation-plan/

  65. Unplugged permalink
    July 3, 2012 12:12 pm

    @ Web Believed: When I commented that this was the most generous comp plan I seen, I was comparing it to the time in Quixtar/Amway and Monavie. Mike’s Video’s are very truthful too and after getting unplugged I see so much more that they are not as generous. @Brent: Yes 200 PV is required for Power Player along with the Trip Tracking to qualify for the free trips.

  66. Brent Hansen permalink
    July 3, 2012 1:55 pm

    @Webelieved and @Speak, forgive me here but I am really not following this at all. I thought that the old “Team” model was replaced and morphed into “Life”. I fully understand how the former Team profit-sharing program worked, but believe that program has been superseded by the current Life compensation plan.

    @Unplugged, rhetorical teaching about the generosity of a plan does not make it generous. A percentage of payout is of little consequence if the allocation is messed up. I believe a plan is only as good as its ability to bring a new person into profit, and its evident from Michael’s video that equitable disbursement of profit dollars is not high on their list of priorities. There are tons of companies with 10 to 1 ratios and even a few with 5 to 1 ratios. It truly is all about allocation.

  67. Unplugged permalink
    July 3, 2012 2:31 pm

    Profit Sharing now starts at turbo 10 with $600 worth of tool flow and have to be voted in. Remember now LIFE is the Products and Team is Support to run your business.

  68. Brent Hansen permalink
    July 3, 2012 3:57 pm

    Someone who understands the “team” side please email me directly, or through Amthrax. I am interested to learn more. Thank you. hansen.brent@rocketmail.com

  69. July 3, 2012 6:18 pm

    @Mike Colins – I am proud that my country Singapore is in the top 7! And India – that has got to be our TEAM MonaVie downline member too. (although only a mere 2 views.. hehe) BRB~ busy with business. 🙂

  70. Speak Your Truth permalink
    July 3, 2012 6:30 pm

    Brent~

    Wish I could spell it out for you but I believe ‘unplugged’ and others and am sure there are other comments that would be able to shed some real light on the dilberate and intentional ‘confusing’ Lief game.

    You would think they would have this spelled out on the site but it is ‘secret’ and probably kept behind the hidden curtain..to be slowly fed on a need to know basis.

    They play it that way, they help keep others confused and in the dark with their elusive explanations and many ways ‘to frame it’; it is the way the game is played on purpose!

    Interesting this is what cults do too…imagine that!

  71. Freedomhaha permalink
    July 3, 2012 6:32 pm

    Hi Orrin! I know you are reading this, so I want to tell you a short story. I quit because of this blog as well as got 5 others to do the same. I have also helped free tens of others before they started. I guess you could say I leveraged this information!

  72. webelieved permalink
    July 3, 2012 8:57 pm

    Freedomhaha- you are hilarious! Each one reach one!

  73. Mike Collins permalink
    July 3, 2012 9:48 pm

    @Rykel: I’m sorry buddy I don’t understand what you are trying to say. Would you mind clarifying for me? Thanks

  74. mesha permalink
    July 6, 2012 10:01 pm

    ‘ Most of the negative is just Amway Drones still not willing to take responsibility, face the facts, and go away quietly.’

    Go away quietly?Never! 🙂

  75. Speak Your Truth permalink
    July 7, 2012 9:45 am

    Mesha~

    Their arrogance is astounding! Perhaps they ought to practice what they preach. I haven’t seen anyone of them yet…take responsibility for their intentional destruction!

    Where is the responsiblity for all the false hope and promises they spewed for years? He has total control now over all pricing and the comp plan! Yet his comp plan is a little better than Amway haha…but no different..in designed to keep the top less than 1% getting rich…Where is all his “Wal-Mart” pricing? He said for YEARS he was going to have when he got his own MLM?! Oh the greed…did he forget about them Wal-mart pricing?!

    They wish people… would have just went away quietly…they would love for people to do just that! And How’s that workin out for them?..haha. Wishing won’t get them their wish! They are dellusional.

  76. I QUIT (and glad I did) permalink
    July 9, 2012 6:49 am

    Hey guys lets not forget all the residual income we still have pouring into our bank accounts! Yup- I love this B type business income.

  77. Speak Your Truth permalink
    July 9, 2012 9:31 am

    I QUIT~

    Hahahahahaha Oh yea the passive, residual, b-type income for the rest of your life!….I am feeling generous…and decided to donate it to my ‘poor’ upline superior PC!

  78. Want to know more permalink
    October 25, 2012 6:50 am

    I have a friend who is in TEAM/LIFE. He speaks very highly of Woodward’s book and uses the books to tell others what a smart guy Woodward is. I have always found it interesting that my friend doesnt want to discuss what he has put into over the last several years. He is always going to leadership meetings, etc.

    Can someone tell me what the minimum someone would have to spend each month to belong to TEAM/LIFE? I really want to help my friend get out of this, he cannot afford whatever he is sinking into it. Any info will be greatly appreciated.

  79. October 25, 2012 10:45 am

    @Want To Know More – When you add up all of the tools, the gas money, the hotel rooms (for the 3-4 conventions they hold each year), the weekly seminar/webcast fees, the monthly open fees, the conference fees, it’s going to end up being several hundreds of dollars/month minimum.

    TEAM/LIFE might tout that they offer the cheapest tools (yadda yadda yadda), but they’ll also say that success/freedom is not free (while getting your friend to buy more more more).

    Here’s a post that will get you started:

    https://amthrax.wordpress.com/2011/04/28/mlm-punisher-on-the-cost-of-living-intentionally-for-excellence/

    Note that it was written over a year ago. Names of products may have changed, but this is a reasonable amount to pay for someone who’s gung-ho about TEAM/LIFE.

  80. freedomhaha permalink
    October 25, 2012 12:51 pm

    Want to know more- Ask him what percentage of his time is making a profit. If he says anything other than less than 1% he is a lair. See the math explained in a previous post on this great site.

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