Do As I Say, Not As I Do — TEAM Policy Council Member’s Property in Foreclosure
Update 12/31/2011: George Guzzardo has taken down his post in which he discusses his strategic default. An archived copy of his post is available here.
Update 9/15/2011: George Guzzardo talks about his Saguaro Ranch property in his latest blog post (link no longer works, see archived copy below).
A reader sent me this link to this article about foreclosures in the state of Arizona (bold emphasis mine):
In Saguaro Ranch, Marana, luxury Lot No. 41 will go up for auction on a $1.3 million note that was purchased in 2007 by a Jill and George Guzzardo, Ironwood, Mich. The beneficiary is M&I Marshall & Ilsley Bank, Milwaukee, Wis. The sale is set for 11:30 a.m. Sept. 14 on the steps of the Pima County Courts Building, 110 W. Congress St. The law firm handling it is Folks & O’Connor, Phoenix.
When I was in the biz, the leaders always talked about buying things for cash; do the TEAM leaders say this as well? What are their on-stage and on-CD views on debt, cash liquidity, investments and having a mortgage?
While it’s never fun to point at someone else’s financial misfortune, it’s necessary to do so in this case. Why, a TEAM member might ask? Because it’s pretty evident to outsiders and Ex-TEAM members that what the TEAM leaders say in public is not necessarily what they do in private.
Update September 15, 2011: George Guzzardo himself has written a post about his property (link no longer works, see archive below) in Tucson, Arizona. Here’s an excerpt:
It also helps to position yourself with the right association and I believed in Orrin Woodward and the Team training system.
To give an example of just how bad the Arizona real estate bubble was, the company who started the luxury land development of over one thousand acre Saguaro property went into bankruptcy, vanishing forty million dollars like a puff of smoke. Seeking legal counsel, I held my payments until the smoke cleared. Working with my bank, we agreed on a foreclosure plan helping to cut my losses. In the meantime , a number of factors changed in my financial picture. I began a new business venture and kept up a solid relationships with my mentor. After discussing my options, I restarted payments to the bank and I am contemplating accelerating the payments. The bank reinstated my good credit and the property is no longer in foreclosure. I am currently undecided whether I will build on the property or eventually sell it.
…
Why do I tell you all this? Because I want you to learn from my financial mistakes, not your own. I am an example of how this financial training and personal mentorship works. It’s rare to hear about any financial success in today’s economy but not so in the Life Team. Through this situation, I’ve learned that true failure only occurs when a person quits. I am not a quitter and have learned my lesson. Where else but in the LIFE Team, can a person afford a million dollar learning lesson?
From what he wrote, it looks like he initiated a strategic default on his property before resuming payments?
Definitely read the George’s full post on his website. What are you thoughts about this in light of hearing his side of the story? Transparency? Damage control? Leave your comments below!
Update 12/31/2011: Guzzardo took down his post, but here’s an archived copy:
The reason the LIFE Leadership Team is growing so fast is because of the answers it provides in the midst of these trying economic times. Orrin Woodward’s systematic background and the soon to be launched LIFE Team business will showcase many successful men and women. I have first-hand experience learning these financial lessons. Well before the Team released its Financial Pack, we made our first million dollars, and like most Americans, we didn’t see the real estate bubble collapse coming. Originally, the banks told us that we qualified to buy a luxury land development property and build a house at the same time. However, through mentoring with my friend Orrin Woodward, he counseled me to buy the land only and pay it off in five years. I am thankful I followed this plan, because shortly afterwards I ended my association with my former networking company. I made that decision based upon my principles, even though I knew it would affect my finances dramatically. It was simply the right thing for me to do. Resigning from my business, combined with the popping real estate bubble, changed my finances dramatically. Most people would have been devastated from this set of circumstances but my wife and I dug into a new plan. It also helps to position yourself with the right association and I believed in Orrin Woodward and the Team training system.
To give an example of just how bad the Arizona real estate bubble was, the company who started the luxury land development of over one thousand acre Saguaro property went into bankruptcy, vanishing forty million dollars like a puff of smoke. Seeking legal counsel, I held my payments until the smoke cleared. Working with my bank, we agreed on a foreclosure plan helping to cut my losses. In the meantime , a number of factors changed in my financial picture. I began a new business venture and kept up a solid relationships with my mentor. After discussing my options, I restarted payments to the bank and I am contemplating accelerating the payments. The bank reinstated my good credit and the property is no longer in foreclosure. I am currently undecided whether I will build on the property or eventually sell it. Jill and I are considering buying an 8 acre ranch on an air strip that we both love. The dream is alive on the LIFE Leadership Team.
Why do I tell you all this? Because I want you to learn from my financial mistakes, not your own. I am an example of how this financial training and personal mentorship works. It’s rare to hear about any financial success in today’s economy but not so in the Life Team. Through this situation, I’ve learned that true failure only occurs when a person quits. I am not a quitter and have learned my lesson. Where else but in the LIFE Team, can a person afford a million dollar learning lesson? The LIFE Team community has helped numerous people survive the economic downturn, including Jill and me. I live by the old saying, “People of integrity expect to be believed, and when they’re not, they let time prove them right.” The LIFE business and the Team system teaches financial knowledge. This wisdom will help millions of people save millions of dollars by learning from the wisdom of others. Thanks to Orrin Woodward and the LIFE Team, there is help. God Bless, George Guzzardo
1 It’s possible that the property is this one listed here.
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AMTHRAX 
Wow! If this doesn’t open the eyes of those who come here and defend Team and the “leaders”, I don’t know what would. These are the “Top Dogs”, “Mentors”, “Debt free”, “Leaders”. Apparently, the Guzzardos aren’t following their own teachings and now things are crumbling around them. I wonder if Orrin is taking the Guzzardos money just as he has from most on this blog. Forgive me Lord for not feeling sorry that they are losing their property! What comes around goes around!
And I bet George is one of the leaders who will be a “LIFE” coach teaching the principles of the Finance area of the 8 F’s. What a joke.
Also, didn’t Chris & Teri Brady sell their Florida home to Kirk & Cassie Birttles? And I’ve also heard they sold the property they spent all that time having custom built over the last few years and have now moved to North Carolina. Is there more to that story too?
So fake it til you make it, and even after you make it you still gotta fake it to hide the truth from your puny underling downline.
I can’t confirm this, but I heard Chris Brady went bankrupt, sold his MI dream house to Orrin and moved to NC because there is a bankruptcy lawyer named Christopher J Brady who lives there – so if you try to google Chris Brady Bankruptcy NC, it will just come up with the lawyer’s website hence trying to hide the fact he went bankrupt. Can anyone confirm?
I agree with Amthrax, this is not about pointing out someone’s misfortune, but it is about how they coerce and entise and lie with their supposed ‘riches’ and ‘dreams.’
This was the Guzzardo’s the PC level 4 leaders… DREAM properity for their Dream Home and, the ‘millionaires’… (touted by Orrin from stage) couldn’t keep their integrity and take responsiblity with their millionaire lifestyle? George is also ‘promoted’ as the most ‘persistant’ and then how did he QUIT on his DREAM? Who will they blame?
What a shame how they bash everyone else going into debt and tell them this is your ‘golden candy bar ticket,’, your only HOPE and how BAD the goverment, having a job will never get you anywhere but broke, and no one else is smart enough, they are ‘financial guru’s’ and repetitively imply they pay cash for everything, and tell everyone you can get ALL your goals and dreams; if you follow our ‘proven system’ and BELIEVE.
Recession Proof business..hmm.. or other challenges? How can it be, they are exploding and are having the BEST growth since 2006? The PC supposedly are making Millions.
I agree with weblieved…another piece of the puzzle. And is obvious why they have to shift and steal profit-sharing and teams from others…perhaps they all need to do this to keep their PC qualification. Seems I don’t need captain obvious to show up to explain why they shredded teams during the registration either!
They tell all those poor lost souls…counting on this LIE to get their ‘goals and dreams’, that the TEAM lief is the ONLY way you are going to get your Dreams, stay married,have fun, get FINANCIALLY free, and get every Dream you can Dream up….there isn’t another way on the planet but through their ‘proven system’ that anyone will get FREEDOM.
It is ALL an illusion, just another lie, and a perpetuating fraud.
Another example of how their ‘proven system’ and ‘lifestyles’ isn’t so ‘proven.’
No Team For Me~
I also was told the Brady’s sold their Michigan house that they built and ‘needed a riding vacuum,’ just to vacuum the house it was so big; to Orrin and Orrin sold his Michigan ‘spanish mansion’ to the Lewis. Hmm…perhaps it was that ‘illegal pyramid scheme with the hoplessly overpriced products’ that was the ‘Best Business Bar None’ that they will Blame this on?
Wait…. Leaders don’t blame and make excuses…..they take responsiblity.
None of you can confirm a damn thing! lol I get some amusement out of checking in on your BS site here!
WE ALL know you’re all either paid bloggers or pissed cause WE (Team) did what you thought no one could do! We build something much better and we’re still going strong in spite of you!
Just watch what happens!
see ya!
;o)
Hey Rich, good one! The trick isn’t building it. The trick is hanging onto it after you do the work and get results! Good luck!
@Free To Live Again – Wouldn’t the bankruptcy documents be public record? Seems like a stretch to me.
Rich
Do you have any proof that we are being paid? Nope. I’d show you my 1099 from Amthrax, but the thing is I dont have one because I have not been paid anything to post here.
what I can not confirm from TEAM itself….profit and loss statements from TEAM. Actual verifiable earning for the TEAM members and leaders…actual RESULTS from being on the systems.
When I ask for confirmation for TEAM, you guys are the ones that won’t produce the information I ask for.
And again with the negative talk. I thought to TEAM guys weren’t supposed to talk negative or does that only apply in TEA”s little bubble?
SYT said: “George is also ‘promoted’ as the most ‘persistant’ and then how did he QUIT on his DREAM? Who will they blame?”
You…this blog…the government…their lazy downlines…anyone…everyone and everything but the real cause of their failure (their own greed/dishonesty and the inherent flaws of the TEAM “system”). The one thing they won’t do is accept an ounce of personal responsibility.
Just wait — soon they’ll start really cannibalizing each other and plea bargaining for leniency as they rat each other out in court.
Rich said: “None of you can confirm a damn thing! lol I get some amusement out of checking in on your BS site here! WE ALL know you’re all either paid bloggers or pissed cause WE (Team) did what you thought no one could do! We build something much better and we’re still going strong in spite of you!”
Paid??? No one told me about any pay for blogging. Hey Amthrax, I want my check too – who do I call? Seriously, if there were an opportunity to get paid for writing comments here, perhaps Rich should be promoting that business opportunity instead of this pathetic money-losing TEAM/Monavie nonsense.
All kidding aside, the reality is that the TEAM/MV Ponzi scheme is circling the drain about to make its final descent into the sewer of MLM history. Good luck parlaying all that TEAM “work experience” when you’re in the job application line Rich. The people at HR will have a hearty laugh when they see TEAM on your resume. After they wipe the tears away, they’ll hide all the valuables and then usher you out of the building with a security guard escort.
Maybe if you all change your names to “John Smith” and give your next MLM scam a simple pared-down name like “X”, you’ll have a chance of making it through a Google search unscathed.
Rich~
Hey stick around.. Amthrax can ‘show you the plan’ on how to bring your wife home from work, get your goals and dreams, become ‘financially independant’ with ‘paid for blogging’ on his site. Don’t worry it is just a ‘one time’ fee of ONLY 83.95! Then of course the training comes next… it will transform you and no worries you will be able to fire your boss, it will be worth the investment you just wait and see…
Where else can you learn to become an arrogant (con) ‘millionaire’ off the bank accounts of the uniformed masses, with such low start-up, ‘franchise’ and no overhead and better yourself in EVERY area of your life?
Amthrax has this really cool thing called ‘webcast’ that you can PAY for every time you use it (don’t worry it is an invest in your own business) 🙂 to watch and learn how to make it BIG in blogging.
BTW~ You wouldn’t believe how much we are making…if I told you.
But if you turn out to be a ‘loser,’ ‘nose picker’ who wants ‘something for nothing’ and who quits…or if the decision is necessary for us to steal your profit-sharing and teams, then you weren’t a ‘leader’ anyway, (after you bring us thousands of bloggers of course and millions in revenue) but as you say at least you will get entertained and become a ‘better’ con. Oh, and don’t bother checking any other paid for blogger sites out, we are the fastest growing and best bar none. Does this all sound familiar yet? 🙂
I am using this as humor…but Rich could you confirm or deny?
Vogel~
“Just wait — soon they’ll start really cannibalizing each other and plea bargaining for leniency as they rat each other out in court.”
I think you are right, there is no doubt they will turn on each other.
Justice served… is long over due…
They used to always tell people to write out their perfect day….:) Thanks for the laughs.
From what I found out from someone on Guzzardo’s team is that they didn’t go into foreclosure, the community they lived in did (Saguaro Ranch), therefore, in order to get out, they had to auction the house off….????
http://www.nationalbankruptcyforum.com/bankruptcy-case-law-and-analysis/arizona-bankruptcy-court-denies-confirmation-of-saguaro-ranchs-plan-of-reorganization-for-second-time/
Either way, it’s a bad, bad situation to be in. I hope this story and lesson finds its way into one of the Finance CDs.
Does that mean they could retain the house by buying it off of the auction? I’m not sure I understand all the implications here.
It’s not a house, but a plot of land that they purchased. Saguaro Ranch was a planned housing development that came about right as the housing bubble was collapsing. Like I said, either way, the Guzzardo’s are unloading the property via a foreclosure auction that was held today. Can any real-estate people shed more light on this development?
Free to live – thanks for the clarification. However, it still doesn’t make complete sense. I’m not a bankruptcy / foreclosure attorney, but let’s say a certain land developer had these master plans to sell a certain number of properties by a certain date. Well it turns out they only sold a few lots before they ran into financial difficulties or their master plan was deemed inoperable. Wouldn’t the individuals who bought the few lots they did sell actually own them? If the land developer went into foreclosure, I wouldn’t think that would wipe out everyone would bought the individual properties. Otherwise their land “ownership” wouldn’t actually be owning anything, but they would have had to sign a lot rental agreement instead. Right?
So let’s assume the Guzzardo’s did actually buy the property…I would think that their owning it isn’t contingent on what the overall land developer does after that (i.e. they can’t lose the property). Now, maybe their sales agreement specified that they could get out of the contract if they wished if things fell through, but that is a different matter. This wouldn’t answer the question about why their individual property was listed as going into foreclosure (as opposed to just selling the property outright). Seems fishy to me.
What other thoughts / information do others have?
Yeah, definitely doesn’t add up to me. If they stand to lose a significant dollar amount, wouldn’t they have grounds for a lawsuit, considering they supposedly purchased the property? And why would the beneficiary of the foreclosure be a bank in Wisconsin?
Free to Live Life again~
Thanks for posting that, I did find this interesting.
“However, she also stated that “the oft-quoted language of In re Pizza of Hawaii, 761 F.2d 1374, 1382 (9th Cir. 1985), which warns against the confirmation of ‘visionary schemes,’ applies here.”
“Visionary scheme?”… Very interesting…..could be; what comes around goes around.
I agree with Amthrax. It is too bad and I wouldn’t wish it on anyone. But I do have to say, I have zero empathy for the PC.
Not sure, but I don’t care how much liquid cash I supposedly had, I would never outright purchase land in a development that has yet to be developed. I can understand putting money down, or maybe even purchasing on land contract. Plunking down $500,000 for land in a devlopment that has yet to be developed would be foolish. I’m reserving judgement on this one until more comes to the surface. Plenty of other topics that are more black and white than this one.
I agree with Rich. This is VERY amusing. Most of you just read this post and said “WOW can’t believe it!” Lol. You take this post for face value just because you are looking for something negative to talk about. Facts are that Team is growing more now than ever. You want CREDIBLE sources? Just ask me. You don’t get much more inside than me:)
Hey “I QUIT”…..your name says it all. You said “the trick isn’t making it, it’s holding onto it.” Really? Have you EVER made it? If so, you obviously DIDNT hold onto it if you quit. Lol. And people are supposed to listen to you?
Rich, glad we could amuse you. What kind of proof do you want? I think that a property up for auction due to foreclosure is pretty strong proof, at least that all is not well in Team PC land. The bank listed is a Wisconsin bank, and there probably aren’t a lot of Arizona real estate developers who get their financing in Wisconsin. (I have no proof of that, though.)
Brady did in fact sell his Michigan dream home to Orrin and moved to North Carolina. He sold his previous home to Kirk and Cassie Birtles, who later abandoned the home because they couldn’t make the payments. (Not sure if it’s gone into foreclosure yet.) Orrin sold his previous Michigan house to Bill Lewis.
It is beyond the pale that Guzzardo, Birtles, Mark Paul, Jim Martin, Radosa, Steve Morgan, and Doug Stroh all stand on stage and tell others that they have the results you want, and they are qualified to mentor you to get those same results. Ha! They are literally a bunch of lying hypocrites.
But Rich, be sure to follow your leaders. Right down the rat hole of L.I.F.E.
Hud or Bob (make up your mind on your handle):
Fact is that the Guzzardo’s purchased land in the Saguaro Ranch development in 2007 for $1.3 million (not with cash but through a bank).
Fact is that the property had a foreclosure auction on September 14, 2011.
If the property that I linked to is the same one, fact is that it was listed at $600,000, down from nearly $900,000 a few months ago.
Fact – the Guzzardo’s got themselves into a bad deal with this property. I don’t see how someone on either side of this debate can say otherwise.
Whether or not “TEAM is growing more now than ever” is irrelevant to this discussion. Unless it’s categorized as — how does Orrin call it — a teaching moment?
@Rob Thomas – Yes, it would be foolish to plunk cash-only for land in a development. I wanted to know from the ex-TEAM members what is being taught throughout the organizations about the finances and real-estate? Are they encouraging to delay gratification so that they can purchase everything for cash? Do they talk about the mathematics of a mortgage? Do they say things like, “Mortgages are bad, just buy everything with cash!”
If one of the 8F’s is about Finances, they will need to be more advanced and thorough in their teachings than just, “Do this business, and you can buy whatever you want in life!”
Hey Hud, let me know if you’re willing to shoot me an email with the information you have as an insider. Tax returns, etc. I keep telling my friends in TEAM if they could just show me some real proof of the system working I would join and bring 30 others with me. So far, they are unable to produce anything. I don’t go for the smoke and mirrors magic show. If you’re willing to provide the numbers, I’d take a closer look.
Conveniently for those arguing for Team, it becomes a religion when they are asked for numbers, and switches back to a business when they are asked about ethics.
You (and Bob and Rich, if you are indeed separate entities) come here telling everyone here they are idiots. Is this the type of “leadership” qualities you learn from Team or is Team helping you to overcome that? Is this really the type of “leader” you want to be? A true leader ought to try and understand the hearts of those he is trying to lead. Why do you feel the need to attempt to denigrate others?
Samantha, same thoughts on the bank in Wisconsin. That’s why the excuse that the Guzzardo’s weren’t foreclosed on, but rather the development company was, does not make sense. I am no expert, so I await further information or expert opinions.
I talked with a real estate friend and she said there would be no reason for the Guzzardo’s to HAVE to foreclose to “get out” just because the Saguaro Ranch foreclosed (which they did, but another company bought the property). So 1) the Guzzardo’s really don’t have any money and went into foreclosure or 2) they decided they didn’t want the property anymore and went into foreclosure on purpose. As Amthrax says, bad situation either way.
We were always taught through the TEAM to have delayed gratification and pay for everything with cash – something that the top leaders aren’t doing ie: with the Cullen’s when they went bankrupt with the Amway lawsuits, the court doc’s showed they had around $750,000 in credit card debt and had loans on 2 cars – what a disappointment to find out the lies that are going on.
It’s hard to argue with people on the TEAM who are indoctrinated with the system…..but Huperdiem, people within the TEAM are always degrading and calling other people “losers” or that they are just “stupid” and don’t get it when someone doesn’t sign up. They are taught to “love everyone where they are at” but only if they are in TEAM it seems….otherwise, they call people names all the time. They get it from their top leader – in one of Orrin’s recent blog posts, he mentioned the difference between some people and their excuse for their “sorry existence”…….good leadership skills right there.
Hud- I made it so big that I could chug a whole bottle of the wonder juice without stopping once!! Pretty cool huh!?!
Amthrax, you don’t have the details of the situation. None of you have any idea about what really happened. You have a couple pieces which you spin so all your disgruntled followers have something to chat about. Awesome clientelle! Be proud. Also, I wasn’t sure the “Bob” one went through. I was testing:)
I QUIT….funny. So you admit you are a failure AND a quitter. Is that why you come here to slander others?
Huper, no, I’m not willing to share insider information:. I’m not just talking about profit sharing incomes) It’s for…..INSIDERS:). I”m not telling you you are an idiot. I”m saying most people here are “ignorant”, which means “not knowing” or “doesn’t have information” on the subject. Your question is valid, however, this site is nothing more than a bunch of angry people slandering others. It’s truly shameful. There’s NO reason to try and make people think the Guzzardos are hypocrites, liars, bad with money etc. What’s the point of everyone on here speculating about the situation AND drawing THEIR OWN conclusions based on THEIR OWN “data”. This is poor all around. Whose “expert opinions” are you waiting for? If you want truth, call George. If he doesn’t answer perhaps it’s because it’s not your business and he doesn’t owe it to anyone to explain it.
I’m simply sensing jealously and envy. I could be wrong though. Can any of you send me an email when you create a multi million dollar company?
Does anyone else think that Hud talks like Orrin?
Hud- You are mistaken. I have never slandered anyone on this site. Slander is a false statement that injures someone’s reputation. Any statement I’ve ever made directly targeted toward a certain individual has been truth. Plain and simple.
If I were to tell you what level I reached on Team would you believe me?
Answer: Nope.
So why waste the time?
Good luck with the sham called Team. Or Life. Or whatever.
Sam…haha. No. Not Orrin, although I appreciate the compiment!
I QUIT….actually I was wrong…”slander” is spoken. Libel is written. However, you’re right. Libel is a written lie intended to be portrayed as a fact. Some of this on here is for sure libel. Most of it is just …..whining and hate, but no “facts”. I’m still waiting for those
compLiment:)
Great chat! I’m out. This is TOO addicting, as you all well know;)
I guess I must have misunderstood, Hud. I thought you just told us to ask you, since you are an insider and a credible source. I was merely taking your advice. I have friends in TEAM who I’ve asked to get me information as well, and they are unable to (their upline won’t share it with them). Apparently, insiders can’t get the information either. I’m sorry, I can’t see you as a credible source if you can’t follow through.
I sense a large amount of narcissism in Hud but not enough douchebaggery to be Orrin. Hud’s sentences are complete with good grammar so there is no way that he is Orrin.
team decption~ Agreed..lol
You know the ole saying; if you can’t stand the heat in the kitchen…get out. 🙂
Hud..Couldn’t leave without one last dig though….you know how ‘addicting it is’… when you eat, breath, and sleep…. the love of greed, it is important to be addicted to the game.
Samantha ~ That is the creepiest…how they clone themselves..walk, talk, speak, and act, it is the fundamentals of a cult.. and the most disturbing is Hud took it as compliment..
Great comments, you said it so well in your previous post…
I have a good idea who Hud..Bob… is.
Hud
Whats with all the negative talk again? Almost everyone who is still in TEAM says don’t talk negative, unless its about people outside TEAM.
TEAM needs to grow a pair and accept that there will be criticism of the organization and its members. TEAM also needs to counter that criticism the logical responses, not fly off the handle and go into attack mode.
Why do you guys get offended when the TEAM is the ones that burned us with deceptive practices, vague answers to simple questions and inflating numbers? Example in my area the place where TEAM holds its opens seats 150 at the maximum. TEAM says they have 200 people on Tuesday. That cant be. Why is TEAM so offended by actual facts and steers clear of them?
And I can back this up. At one of my first opens, the leader due said they had 200 in the room. I counted. There were actually 125. And the night was just starting and this was not the only false thing that evening. There was more.
If you are credible then why pull stuff out of the team speak manual and not answer questions directly? One the very reasons I did not join TEAM was because of that. If you want me to join TEAm at a bare minimum of 500 bucks a month and give 15 hours to STP, 4 hours on a Tuesday every week and several hours (6-8) on a Saturday night for a monthly, then asking for financials and verification is a very logical and reasonable thing to do.
If TEAm is growing then why in my area was it the same people at opens every Tuesday?
I saw a few new people over 4 months time, but they came once and didn’t come back.
Can you answer my questions directly with original thoughts and not go to your handlers for answers? Can you be a person of character and integrity and principles like TEAM teaches and answer my questions with out attacking me calling me a quitter or going to a TEAM CD first? I am not asking for your personal financial information, I am asking about TEAM as a company.
Everyone – Check it out. George Guzzardo has a new blog post in which he talks about his Saguaro Ranch property.
Also, let’s move the discussion back to the topic at hand. Hud/Bob did a good job of diverting everyone’s attention. With George’s post, there’s more to discuss. I guess the TEAM LIFE leaders are reading this blog, after all, eh?
Here’s a question. Would George have written his post had I not posted about this?
I doubt this would even be thought about making public if they didn’t feel the need to explain themselves. It’s spin. He screwed up, and he’s so brainwashed, he tells everyone, “Look! I lost money, but because I listen to Orrin(!) I didn’t lose AS MUCH money”.
That’s logical?
My money. My decisions. I don’t need some wannabe deity telling me what to do with MY money that I earned.
Good God, what a freak show TEAM or LIFE or whatever next generic name they come up with to hide themselves on Google is.
PS….The BANK restored his good credit?
Interesting since that is no where near how credit ratings function in Canada. Any comments from the U.S. folks?
In Canada, a bank would NEVER restore anyone’s credit. That is up to the Credit Bureau, ie. Equifax or Trans Union. Your credit history is NEVER determined nor amended by any creditor.
Found some more information on strategic defaults, which seems to be what Guzzardo initiated with the property until changing directions and resuming payments?
Be sure to read the section on the ethical issues surrounding strategic defaults. Is it one’s duty to pay the mortgage, even if the property is heavily underwater? Or, does one take the amoral stance and stick it to the bank?
More information on strategic defaults:
OMG! I just read George Guzzardo’s blog. What a bunch of crap! Talk about spin. Orrin (aka Hud, aka bob, etc) must have been furious that the word was getting out so they did some pretty quick damage control by putting that little piece out there.
What happened to the always paying cash we were always told about?
And I still want to know….why would Brady’s move to North Carolina? They don’t have a huge group there. It’s not an exotic area like Florida. What reason could there be for needing to move so far from everyone? And why would Orrin buy that property? I smell something fishy.
Maybe Hud (aka Orrin) can enlighten us.
Since George claims to be a Christian, can someone help me understand where in the Bible it says that the act of strategically defaulting is morally right? That breaking a promise is okay when you might lose a lot of money. Isn’t true character doing the right thing even when it hurts?
George’s post is major damage control and also a clear admission that he is unethical. First of all, a “strategic default” is nothing more than a plan to screw your bank. Let’s say you borrowed $1 million to purchase a property worth $1.3 million. When you sign the loan documents, you promise to pay back $1 million plus interest. There is NOTHING in the loan documents that say if the property value declines, you get an out. Strategic default means that even though you can afford the payments, you don’t make them. You made a bad real estate decision, but instead of living with that decision, you decide to stick your bank with the problem. It is unethical and immoral no matter how you look at it.
A bank will never “work with you” to strategically default. When they realize that you plan to screw them, they might renegotiate the terms of the loan in an effort to minimize their loss. What will a Wisconsin bank do with undeveloped property in Arizona? Better for them to lower the interest rate or write-down a portion of the principal than to hold a piece of worthless property.
So I’m guessing that George doesn’t even understand what he has admitted–that he is immoral and not broke. Not the sharpest knife in the drawer, is he? Could be more advice from Orrin–better to admit you are unethical than to admit there might be a problem with Team.
BTW, Team financial advice was usually to pay cash for anything you possibly can, (never carry a balance on a credit card) and to never finance anything that depreciates like cars, boats, or furniture. A mortgage on your home is okay, as long as you put a minimum of 25% down and the payments are well within your means.
It seems if the walls are crumbling down. Someone posted on FB that the Huber’s filed for bankruptcy in Oct 2010.
@free at last: (don’t mean to derail the discussion again, but) Who are the Hubers?
Free, that they did. Did a little research and this is what is out there. This is just off of the internet it should be verified in public records.
Way to many of these leaders are preaching to their downlines to do one thing and then living just the opposite in their own lives. Amthrax had it right with his post title. Do as I say not as I do!!!! It looks like that is the model that the TEAM leaders abide by. The people who really know the Hubers will not be surprised by this but hopefully the people that sit on every word that they say will see this and THINK on their own “maybe these guys really are hypocrites”? Maybe they will ask to themselves, “should people that say one thing and do another be telling me how to live my life”? Or even “How can my upline who just filed bankruptcy give me any advice on the “F” in finance”? Could examples and information like this shake up the commercial cult known as TEAM?
Name: Mark Jeffery Huber
Address: 11515 KINGS KNIGHT CIR
GRAND BLANC, MI 48439
Name: Anna Maria Huber
Address: 11515 KINGS KNIGHT CIR
GRAND BLANC, MI 48439
Assets for Unsecured: N
Case Number: 1035327
Case Type: V
Chapter: 7
Corporate Case: N
Court Code: MI003
Court Location: FLINT
Court Name: MICHIGAN EASTERN – FLINT
Discharge Date: 01/04/2011
Disposition: Discharged
Filer Type: JOINT
Filing Date: 10/01/2010
Filing Jurisdiction: MI
Filing Type: INDIVIDUAL
Judge Identification: DSO
Self Represented: N
this post is proof positive of one of the basic flaws of “LIFE” – the products in this MLM are the leaders. Nothing against George, or making a bad financial decision..you take the good with the bad. the business is only as good as the weakest promoted leader. instead of some bad press effecting the local leader- it effects the entire organization and the “products” of the MLM. DO you really want to build a business hoping that a PC member doesnt quit? file Bankruptcy? cheat on their spouse? beat their wife? etc. This is not saying it would happen..the point is the liability is on the guy who hasnt made it yet. what do you do with your finance packs when the leader on the cd put themselves in a financial mess? what do you do with your relationship packs when a leader gets a divorce? you cant switch from promoting system to promoting product…they are the product.
Hud says, “Whose “expert opinions” are you waiting for? If you want truth, call George. If he doesn’t answer perhaps it’s because it’s not your business and he doesn’t owe it to anyone to explain it.”
Hud – what happens if you do go to the source and they LIE to you to protect their business? This is what has happened with everyone on this blog. They have witnessed first hand how the leaders say one thing on stage but do something different behind closed doors. It is like the game ‘screw your neighbor.’ They do just that to all of their so called friends and business partners. Fact is, the leaders you look up to are liars, manipulators, unethical and down right evil. I will give them some props for painting a pretty picture when they are on stage. Everything is gum drops and rainbows with ‘Jesus this’ and ‘Almighty Dollar’ that.
You are being played my friend.
George, Orrin and all of the other con-artists will tell you exactly what they want you to hear.
You are the one that will wake up in ten years fat, broke and dumb and realize you have been had. But hey, at least you will finally be a free man.
One truth told by Bob – I mean Hud.
“Great chat! I’m out. This is TOO addicting, as you all well know;)”
This site is addicting and I think I know why – the end is coming and they are grasping for straws. Like Facebook did for Egypt, we are all here to see social media do a good deed.
Thank you Amthrax!
The Purple Revolution!
As we’re on the topic of the poor state of financial affairs in TEAM-land, I’ve heard (and have confirmed), that Joe & Laura Darkangelo also filed bankruptcy in September 2009, only a year after they hit PC at the June 2008 Columbus major.
Also, didn’t the Hubers hit Diamond in Mona Vie well BEFORE they filed bankruptcy?
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This commenter requested that her comments be removed from this site.
This is a very interesting topic. Once again here is what I have seen with my own eyes. TEAM tells you to pay cash…but when my sponsor took me to lunch one day for a 6 dollar sandwich, he paid with credit card. I went to church with a team of team bots a few times. Not one of them put a dime in the collection plate.
I have also seen TEAM bots have there cards declined on more than one occasion. The only thing I have seen TEAM bots pay cash for is the at the opens and for the sugar drinks…I mean “energy drinks” at the opens and monthly.
classic example of telling people to pay cash…and then not doing it. Granted these things I have seen have been small items….lunches, dinners and stuff, but still….
I think its gonna be an endless cycle…TEAM is crashing so they come up with LIFE. IN a few years, LIFE will fail so they will call it something else
….shit, so much for that rock crawling trip. Maybe Hud or Pud could shed some “living intentionally for excellence” on mr. guzzardo’s financial lesson learned here? Looks as if the news didn’t hit him all too well.
Guzzardo says~
“To give an example of just how bad the Arizona real estate bubble was, the company who started the luxury land development of over one thousand acre Saguaro property went into bankruptcy, vanishing forty million dollars like a puff of smoke.”
“Puff of smoke”…..LMAO!
not signed up yet…you’re correct, it will be an endless cycle of “reinvention” The PC dont see anything wrong with this since they are still making money. (meanwhile nearly every RT is struggling) in addition, if they are not making enough they just justify the raising of majors from $90 to $125 in a major recession. and THEN add a forth major. This is not what you do in a down market…you increase value, cut operating costs,(which they have) and at the very least maintain price so that, you will make up in volume what you would lose in a cost per unit. This is like Obama wanting to do another jobs bill and spend another wad of taxpayer money when he didnt get results from the first porkulus. The raising of costs of doing business didnt assist in the development of a stong and profitable business..neither did the forth major…what did happen was the cost of participation doubled for team members..so you double the cost of majors and everyone is losing their shirt? where did all the extra money go?
George says: “Why do I tell you all this? Because I want you to learn from my financial mistakes, not your own. I am an example of how this financial training and personal mentorship works.”
Well, it obvious why George would tell everyone this….and I don’t think the smoke cleared, at least not by the article that is trying to cover up and do damage control. I don’t believe for a second, it is because George wants anyone to ‘learn’ from his ‘mistakes.’
I think it is hilarious and way too obvious that George decided it was an important lesson to share the same day, that Amthrax posted the article that George ‘strategically defaulted’ on a loan for a luxury piece of rocks and dirt….. That is not by any stretch, great character teaching, honorable or good financial advice. The only thing, I do agree with George on; it is a perfect example; “of how this financial training and personal mentorship works”…on the Team. It is always about the money and keeping it for the PC. Thanks for confirming that.
Samantha said it best and I agree with Dorothy and also recall another lifer that had the audacity to say that Amthrax’s site is the ‘reason’ for the problems in America? OMg.. LOL, but I will beg to differ, I believe its people like those who are greedy and intentionally default on their personal responsibilities….. that are ruining this great country, we live in.
Who eventually pays for this type of deliberate actions and motives? Doesn’t it end up being the hardworking, taxpayers of American’s? Doesn’t it have a snowball effect?
Also the Banks have nothing to do with restoring your credit…. when you default, it takes sometimes years before foreclosure transpires, therefore, you have already chosen to not pay your payments; which have tarnished your credit.
Geez…Do they really not think that people are much smarter than their persuasion packaged of slick put together words and believe free thinking people, fall for the BS? This only confirms that image to them.. is more important than just fessing up to the real truth.
All the trying of the ‘sweeping under the rug’ doesn’t hide anything……. it only makes the rug look like a real bumpy mountain.
The goal for the damage control… is to for the naïve, gullible, and uninformed… to fall for it….
I’ve been calling it TEAM LIFE here, but on most TEAM blogs, I’ve seen it labeled as LIFE TEAM. Maybe they want to avoid association with TIME LIFE?
Hud, (Bob)
Since you claim “You don’t get much more inside than me:)” you must be Orrin, Chris, or Tim, so why don’t you set everyone straight as to how you gave George “permission” to go into debt for this property. I thought he was supposed to set goals and once he met those goals he could pay cash for his dream property. While you’re at it, explain how the ex-leaders that are posting on this site had their “passive, residual, ongoing, willable, B-type Business, for the rest of their lives” taken away from them before they quit?
From what I have read, they didn’t quit on their dreams, their dreams were taken away from them and given to someone who you felt were more deserving? How is it that you became GOD? Please explain this.
If you are not one of the big three, trust me, it is NOT a compliment to be compared to any one of them.
das~ Great questions….doubt that ‘Hud’ has the Guts to come back and answer them.
‘Hud’ says: “I’m simply sensing jealously and envy. I could be wrong though. Can any of you send me an email when you create a multi million dollar company?”
Hud says…”Jealously (sic) and envy?” Yes he is dead wrong…That has got to be the most absurb and ridiculous thing I have ever heard …WHO on the planet is ‘jealous’ or ‘envies’ anyone who deliberately and ‘strategically defaults’ on a 1.3 million dollar piece of dirt…quite the contrary!
Yea… ‘Hud’….We will get right on the… ‘Emailing you when we create our multimillion dollar company’…. but then we would have get it how you did by, selling our souls..Gaming the system…Breaking the rules and laws…create a bunch of lawsuits..deceive, lie, cheat, and steal…rake in our ill-gotten gains (millions) off the backs of 99% of All those unsuspecting and mind controlled people for almost 2 decades…We will get right on that…NOT. You impress NO ONE; except yourself of course.
No One wants to be YOU….get a clue.
HUD – Why don’t you email us when you lose your multi-million dollar company after Dateline, the IRS, the FTC and several attorney generals get through with you.
How sad that you sold out your friends, your families and your souls after seeming to start with such good intentions. How many tens of thousands of people have lost tens of thousands of dollars because of you? Too bad you don’t live by the same teachings you preach.
I read through this thread again, the most profound comment here was made by dextersbeard, his comment hits the nail right on the head, and is very noteworthy. Thank you.
“this post is proof positive of one of the basic flaws of “LIFE” – the products in this MLM are the business is only as good as the weakest promoted leader. instead of some bad press effecting the local leader- it effects the entire organization and the “products” of the MLM. DO you really want to build a business hoping that a PC member doesnt quit? file Bankruptcy? cheat on their spouse? beat their wife? etc. This is not saying it would happen..the point is the liability is on the guy who hasnt made it yet. what do you do with your finance packs when the leader on the cd put themselves in a financial mess? what do you do with your relationship packs when a leader gets a divorce? you cant switch from promoting system to promoting product…they are the product”
Man am I confused. I want to believe all of this isn’t true but, the facts you’ve posted blow me away. Before I approach people I’ve brought into what seems to be a big lie, I need to know this is all true and not B.S. Did you pay for the court filings you’ve posted about Huber, Cullen and Darkangelo or are they available without using a service? Not that I don’t believe they’re real but, you blew up my belief in them and would like to do some research on my own. I told my wife what I’ve read and she’s crushed along with me. I don’t know what made me google this but I’m here for a reason and need to get all the facts straight before I have conversations with people I care deeply about. Please help me find and understand the truth.
@disbelief – You can sign up for a Pacer account yourself here: http://www.pacer.gov/
In order to search and retrieve a copy of the documents yourself, you have to pay a nominal fee. From the Pacer website:
Bankruptcy filing documents are a matter of public record. You’ll just need the docket number. The information in the PDFs themselves will allow you to easily find the documents on Pacer.
@disbelief – Furthermore, you should read as many posts here on this site as possible about TEAM and Orrin Woodward. There are many ex-TEAM members who have spoken out against the injustices they feel the TEAM leadership has inflicted upon them. If even half of what they say is true, I would still stay far, far away from TEAM LIFE.
In addition, read the mathematical analysis of the LIFE opportunity by Brent Hansen. This analysis takes ZERO opinions on the value of the product and looks at the business purely from a logical, mathematical standpoint.
Best wishes in your investigation.
Disbelief, for every person that parades across stage and says they are making money, there are hundreds and even thousands who are losing money. That isn’t the type of business I ever want to represent again. Truth is truth.
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Go to a major even, look around the room, and just ask yourself “How many in this room are in my active down line or are placing folks in my active down line?”
Now, here is the revelation to question one, “Everyone in this room that falls into the No category is either my competition or is creating my competition.”
MV has been around since January 2005 and is on the decline, ref the comparitive IDS’s on their web site, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010.
The MV IDS clearly shows 99% who are still in do not make enough to cover the 1 case autoship.
Now how great a friend is the guy on stage asking you to believe?
@speak the truth…my wife & I have been up to the Brady’s house in MI 12 to 15 times along with a number of my then team members. We were there as it was being built & then were there through out the year & half following completion. It’s a beautiful home, I still have pictures of our time with the Brady’s. Lol…no you dont need a riding sweeper. In fact I wouldnt mind owning it some day my self.
LOL..Well…then….You could give O a call and perhaps cut a special deal on the purchase price…because he owns it now…as they say ‘everything’ is for sale..for a ‘price’.
It is quite amazing how they say they are in it for the ’cause’ a.k.a missionaries.. and NOT the money…that was back in the day…they thought like that…now they have all the money of course they say that…but yet they entice and flaunt everything they have to an extreme…not for them of course…lol…they buy things so YOU can see what YOU can have and they can share with you their prosperity…uh..huh…Right. I have some swam land to sell you all if you believe that one..lol.
Sadly, people believe and they have self-deceived themselves..that they aren’t in it for the $$ and are just noble beings on a quest to change this corrupt world we live in…but when you unplug from the matrix…it all becomes crystal clear…how noble they aren’t. There is only one way to Prove you aren’t in it for the $$$$$…DO IT FOR FREE…give up your income for the rest to collect….In other words..put your $$$ where your mouth is…or stop saying it. Double mixed messages….the name of the game…is how they keep people’s captive into the lie.
Hud, you still there?
You’ve been quiet.
[Editor’s note: corrected misspelling]
George Guzzardo is a hero
http://orrinwoodwardblog.com/2012/02/10/george-and-jill-guzzardo-life-founders/
This cult just gets more entertaining every day.
I am stunned. I am truly in awe of their greatness. Such servant leaders. Thank you Owen for correcting me and my mis-informed opinion of these almost godlike individuals. I stand corrected and beg your forgiveness.
From Orrin’s post:
Well, that’s another way to explain it. I am a little confused about the timing, however. Amway and Woodward/TEAM settled its lawsuits around November, 2010. The article on Guzzardo’s property’s foreclosure auction was published in July, 2011, and the date for the auction was September, 2011. Furthermore, Guzzardo’s response (see his archived post above) seems to imply that his decision to foreclose was prompted primarily by the bankruptcy of the Saguaro Ranch land development company. I think Orrin and George need to talk more to get their stories straight!
Also want to point out a lie by Orrin Woodward (bold emphasis mine):
Based on Orrin’s start date with Amway, he would have been listening to cassette tapes rather than CD’s. CD’s didn’t really start coming into use until the late 90’s, if I recall correctly, and Orrin and company started in the early 90’s. While minor, I think this is useful to point out the subtle changes in stories that are used to influence (and coerce) behavior within TEAM.
Anthrax;
I also doubt that they were community building tapes. In the plan it is mentioned that it was a speech that Orrin, Chris, and Don Freeze attended by Michael Dell in 1999 that put the final piece together. That piece was community. They already had the content, and commerce, and when they heard the Dell speech it put it all together. Correct me if I am wrong, but the Guzzardos were in the business long before 1999.
Now that we have heard from both Orrin Woodward and George Guzzardo regarding the Saguaro Ranch property, I would like to invite Rich and Hud/Bob back to the discussion.
Excellent catch about the Guzzardo property, Amthrax. Orrin freely re-writes history to suit his needs and white-wash the past. What was it that Jesus said about white-washed tombs? Wasn’t it something about still being filled with stink and corruption?
Amthrax-
Absolutely! This is in fact VERY IMPORTANT to point out. The inconsistencies never stop and will continue but it’s just too bad we know the truth and have the proof to back it up. I don’t think I’ve ever seen someone grasp for straws this desperately….good lord, this is laughable!!!!
A job well done, Amthrax!
So if George quit Team, did he have to give up the property or what?
Why would an event that apparently happened in July of 2011, just 7 short months ago seem such a distant memory to Orrin? As if he cannot remember George going tits up last year? Hilarious!
(Insinuated) Now because of Life, George is able to have his dream property once again…hahahahaha….he is such a hero blah blah blah. Even as I am sitting at my desk, I need hip waders because the bullshit is getting deep.
As if he relinquished the property and donated the funds to all the masses of people who had the rug pulled out from under their feet. Keep shovelin it Orrin, no one here is impressed! [deleted expletive]
Wow! We are all talking about finances and it is apperant to me you can’t add or follow the story line. Re read the story and pay attention to the posted dates.